The subject of prophecy never seems to be an issue in one regard among those who generally hold to proper scriptural interpretation in one sense; that is of PAST fulfillment. A Reformed church and many other traditional denominational assemblies hold onto belief that the Prophets accurately predicted specific events; in particular relating to the first coming of Christ. When it comes to future prophecies related to the nation of Israel and the Millennium there is often confusion as to what is taken literally and what is meant figuratively. Thus; again sometimes it is claimed that we can't understand certain things; or perhaps more insidious that because of an isolated doctrinal stance we can't pigeonhole something being literally fulfilled because it threatens that doctrine. Needless to say if our doctrines are truly Biblical and we take scripture literally unless clearly indicated as figurative we can make a lot more sense of things.
We need to remind ourselves that when Christ came the first time He was; by and large not received by His own ( John 1:11). We also need to realize that no matter how much prophecy we read if we are not written in the Book of life we are ultimately going to be deceived to the point that ALL who aren't there will worship the Antichrist (Beast) mentioned in Revelation 13:8.
As I have commented numerous times in the past few years at this site; by the sixth seal it is clear there are no more Atheists; nonetheless many will continue to live in open rebellion and follow Satan to their doom at Armageddon after damning themselves and taking the Mark of the Beast. Despite these factors; there are some who have reservations as to the Eschatology of a Millennium period; for example who I still fellowship with despite disagreeing with their interpretations.
A bigger issue is those who think God is done with Israel; a common verse used is Romans 9:6 as well as Galatians 3:7.
The world socially bullies others to publicly affirm and validate another's' sin, or face consequences such as cancelling and public shaming. Since when are rights contingent on someone else's opinion of you?
Is it more important to appease men, or more important to please God? To the church, it should be obvious what the priority is, but I think some cave to public pressure and fear they may lose funding or social status by not siding with the bullies. Some try to appease the world instead of God.
What's this bullying really about and why the huge push in recent years? They claim its their identity, they're born that way, and don't have a choice. But has anyone challenged this assumption?
What are other examples of someone born with such a high proclivity to sin that they absolutely "have no choice"? I'm not aware of any, in fact, the Bible says we always have a choice- a way out of sin. 1 Corinthians 10:13 KJV
We all have different obstacles in life; some, like Paul, had a thorn in the flesh. 2 Corinthians 12:7
I reject the assumption that some people are more "equal" than others. Equal means equal, not special protected classes and treatment. I've learned that the woke movement is now racially separating people just like they did 100 years ago, whether for hiring, or DEI classes, and who knows what else. Amazing full circle. They totally ignored everything MLK stood for.
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28 KJV
The culture is ignoring this verse that we're equal.
There's no evidence anyone's identity is tied to sin so much they can't help but do that. No baby desires such things. It's learned and when opportunities present themselves. Now pedos use same arguments to excuse their horrific abuse of kids. The culture will use clever words to defend it. There's no end to the evil progression. It's a choice.
Part 5. J Vernon Mcgee. (Paul and James View Justification.)
Therefore, we see that when Paul uses the term justification he is talking about a man's relationship with God; when James uses the same term, he is talking about a man's relationship with the world. One is perpendicular, and the other is horizontal.
Paul and James View Faith.
The same procedure runs true in their use of the term faith. Again, they mean something different. When Paul talks of faith he is talking about that which is toward God. Paul says that saving faith - a faith that is genuine and real - will transform a person's life. Paul said of himself,
But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. ( Philippians 3:7)
A real revolution took place in his life when he came to Christ. Looking again at Galatians 3:6, we read that "as Abraham believed Godit was accounted to him for righteousness." And then in Romans:
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. ( Romans 4:5)
Paul is speaking here of that which we bring to God. The only thing that a sinner can bring to God is faith in Jesus Christ. When James writes about this, he is not talking about faith toward God but about the works of faith. So Paul is talking about the root of faith, and James is talking about the fruit of faith, but they are both defending the citadel of faith.
Here in James 2:14.
James is not talking about the works of the Law. The faith that James is talking about here is professing faith, that which is phony and counterfeit. Paul refers to the same idea when he says in 1 Corinthians 15:2, "unless ye have believed in vain." Paul also wrote, "Examine yourselves, whether you are in the faith" ( 2 Corinthians 13:5). James simply says that the faith which saves you will produce works-"works of faith.
Vs 14-18. And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovah-jireh, as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen. And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD; for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son; That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the seashore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because thou hast obeyed my voice.
Was Abraham justified by works? Yes.
Scripture says that he was justified by works. ( James 2:21-24)
Do we have here a contradiction to the apostle Paul? Did not Paul say that Abraham was justified by faith - not by works? Paul makes a very specific statement in Romans:
"For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath something of which to glory, but not before God. ( Romans 4:2)
Then over in Galatians 3:6 we read, "Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."
Is Paul and James writings in conflict on this point? NO!
Here is an article by J Vernon Mcgee explaining this Paradox.
Paul vs. James in the Use of Words.
May I hasten to state that Paul and James do not conflict at all. They are in entire agreement. As someone has said, "Paul and James do not stand face to face, fighting against each other, but they stand back to back fighting opposite foes." The whole problem lies in the fact that they use the same words, but with a different meaning altogether. They are discussing the same subject from different viewpoints. This you will find upon examining the context.
See Part 4.
J Vernon Mcgee. (Paul vs. James in the Use of Words)
When you say that one is saying "we don't have to keep the 10 commandments" when they say the law was given to the nation Israel" I believe that is where you err.
I believe most agree with you that the 10 commandments and the law is relevant for us today.
However, they weren't given to make one righteous.
They were called 'The ministration of death", written and engraven in stones, or "Ministration of condemnation". NOT "The ministration of the spirit or Ministration of righteousness" As mentioned, and the two compared in 2 Corinthians 3:6-11
Is there a difference between the law and the 10 commandments?
"They both are a part of the Ministration of condemnation".
The law was written to deal with the 10 commandments by way of pattern or a foreshadowing. Those temporary articles could not make us righteous by that which slew us.
Look how Paul uses them both in Romans 7:7-14 "What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. ( Exodus 20:17)
But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
For I was alive without "THE LAW" once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
So, the question should be "Do the law and commandments "APPLY" to us today. The answer is Yes! We all were under sin.
Didn't you understand yet? Around 4000 years after Adam GOD still was working, don't you learn this yet, or don't you believe in the Word of GOD? JOHN 5:17 - Jesus said to the keepers of Sabbath day: My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. By the way, when my Lord JESUS said that to the Jews, it laready was the beginning of the fith GOD's Day, don't you know of this? Why GOD the Father still was working in the turn from the fourth to the fifth GOD's Day? Now, now, it because GOD the Father had established for He Himself, since the beginning, to work 6 Days and to rest in the seventh Day. Now, now, the seventh GOD's Day is now, even now, from now on, understand? From Adam until this current time have passed around 6000 years complete. So, you and everyone who thinks like you, must understand that only now, even now, from now on, will GOD the Father rest from His works. Again: It was still the fourth Day, so, understand, JESUS, the Greater Light, said to the Jews: My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Of course, GOD and my Lord JESUS was working in the fourth Day, GOD the Father and JESUS are One, dispite being two distincts Persons- Hebrews 1:1-3- , and as you know, "without my Lord JESUS was not any thing made that was made"- John 1:3.
Be sure that GOD the Father rests only now in the seventh and last Day, and my Lord JESUS takes command of the Universe and History, in Time and Space, now from this seventh Day onwards. And in the kingdom of GOD- Revelation 11:15 combined with Luke 20:35-36- , which will be established now in the seventh GOD's Day , no seventh-day keeper will come in with his deceptive doctrine, whose doctrine was invented by the seducing spirit of Devil - Genesis 3:1- , and it was sowed through those which departed from the faith- Galatians 3:11, giving heed to doctrines of devils.
Be careful or then get ready
The Word is GOD, what matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, understand? There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
You have just said in prior post that you have never met one believer that has not sinned in some way as a believer. Here's the great problem of those which justifies themselves as keepers of the Sabbath day according to the letter of the Law, for as said James in his universal epistle- James 2:10- , "whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all". What more does the Word of GOD say? Romans 2:12 ->... as many as have sinned in the Law shall be Judged by the Law, therefore, he who sins in the Law becomes guilty of all, then by the Law he will be condemned for sure. Galatians 3:11 - ...no man is justified by the Law in the sight of GOD it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Galatians 5:4 - Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the Law; ye are fallen from grace.(are wretchad)
Galatians 3:8-10
8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that GOD would justify the Gentiles through faith(not by the Law), preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the Law to do them.
Romans 7:6 - But now we are delivered from the Law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Hebrews 4:
12 For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom WE MUST RENDER AN ACCOUNT.
Thanks Momsage. I respect that you don't wish to continue this discussion on the Sabbath Day; though I don't see that we have reached an impasse, rather we are drawing closer to understanding each other, using Scripture & Church practise as our rule, as we eliminate spurious references to Sabbath Day or Sunday worship.
You wrote in another post that you provided much evidence to support the belief that the Church maintained its 'Sabbath Day worship' position. I may have missed it, as I only remember you quoted Constantine, the Laodicean Council, an RC Priest Enright, Jeremy Taylor, & maybe others. Yet, verifiable references were given you of men/writings such as Justin the Martyr, Ignatius of Antioch, the Didache (apostolic teachings), Clement of Alexandria, and others, who referred to Christians meeting on a Sunday rather than the Sabbath - all these were men who preceded the men/council you referred to. It is true that Sunday worship was ordered & ratified much later by those of the RC persuasion, but the point in this discussion is, where does the truth lie & does an RC edict cause all believers to blindly follow it? I would think that a lot more weight needs to be given to the testimony of those men (post-apostolic) & if not, then the reason(s) for their disallowance needs to be given.
And lastly, the Ten Commandments are a single unit of obedience & requirements for Israel, not given to Gentiles nor the Church. The breaking of even one of them meant judgement - for the Law could never give life ( Galatians 3:19-21). How many in the Church have converted that Law given only to Israel to now apply to the Church as well, still mystifies me (as I read how the Law, though holy & good, has now been abrogated through Christ's death). The point that should be discussed is the relationship of that old Law to the Law given us (applied to our hearts) by the Spirit, & why some choose to fuse the two together when it cannot be done. See Hebrews 7:12,18,19. GBU.
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the WORKS of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the WORKS of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Galatians 3:1,2 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the WORKS OF THE LAW, or by the hearing of faith{Christ's faith}?
Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the WORKS OF THE LAW are under the CURSE: for it is written, CURSED is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
In these verses God is making it crystal clear that if we are following a gospel that is conditioned upon our good WORKS, we are CURSED.
So what is a good WORK? Are our BELIEF, our FAITH, our REPENTENCE good WORKS? The best definition of a "good WORK", I believe, is "any obedience to the COMMANDMENTS of God, the LAW of God". Are we not COMMANDED to Believe and to have FAITH in Christ; are these not "gifts" of God and part and parcel of Salvation?
2 Thessalonians 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the WORK OF FAITH with power:
Ephesians 2:8,9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Phil 2:12,13 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, WORK out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is GOD WHICH WORKETH in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Our Faith, Belief, Repentance are WORKS and a RESULT and EVIDENCE of, not REQUIREMENTS for, Salvation.
Yes, you are right, truer, for you did an excellent biblical study and got to a true conclusion that is confirmed even by the Word of GOD. According Exodus 12:40-41 the children of Israel dwelt in Egypt 430 years. Paul Apostle says the same in his epistle to the Church of Galatians- Galatians 3:17.
God bless you, and remain prepared with your lamp(GOD's Word), and oil, (because only lamp is not suffice to meet the Lord JESUS), so that your lamp does not go out in this turn from the sixth to the seventh Day, the Lord's Day, for it's midnight at GOD's clock and the darkness is great and is dangerous. Remember Psalm 91 as a whole, here I highlight verse 5&6 that say: 5 "Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; ... 6 Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; ...
The seed of Abram lived 400 years in the Egypt, in that period GOD made to be born Moses, since then GOD worked to fulfill His promise to Abram, it was in the half of the 2nd to the 3rd GOD's work Day,or around 2500 years after Adam(1500 years BC),and in the given period of time, GOD fulfilled His promise to Abram,as follow:
From Abraham to the Exodus really passed 430 years( Galatians 3:17,take a look)
Moses was 80 years when GOD sent him to bring His people out of Egypt,and died at 120 years old.Moses was born around 310 years after Abraham,and lived 40 years at the Egyptian court- Acts 7:23. After,Moses fled from the face of Pharaoh,and dwelt in the land of Midian by 40 years pasturing flocks- Acts 7:30. Then,GOD called Moses,saying:"Come now therefore,and I will send thee unto Pharaoh, that you may bring forth my people the children of Israel out of Egypt".Moses was 80 years old
Moses spent 40 years leading the Hebrew people to the promised land- Acts 7:36,it was around 2513 years after Adam(two Days and half,of GODs' works)
Yes, Jema, Galatians 3:28 says we are all one in Christ without rank, but equal and equally blessed with the workings of the Holy Spirit.
I am certainly aware that what women, you and myself included, say in fellowship with others may not be accepted by some men due to the verse discussed in Giannis' post, (but he is not one of them) but each man or woman is to be obedient to the promptings and instructions of the Holy Spirit as to what to say to and what to receive from other believers regardless of their gender. You and I are responsible for what we say and do not need to own what others are willing to receive. If their convictions towards receiving biblical insights from women don't allow them to do so, then I believe God will bring the same insights to them from a man in the future according to His will. So I don't fret over this.
I am thankful for this forum and blessed by those who participate. Being pretty much a homebody since Covid and retirement, I don't get a chance each day to share insights with others outside my family often, so this forum allows for us to use our minds that God has blessed us with that are being transformed by the Spirit to be as the mind of Christ.
"That is, They which are the children of the flesh(Israel), these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed."
Romans 9:6-8,
"6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Galatians 4:28,
"Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise."
Galatians 3:29,
"And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise (of the eternal life)."
2 Timothy 2:21 shows that we can clean ourselves so that we are not just vessels of clay but can be vessels of honor. Jesus tells us that he purges branches to produce more fruit ( John 15:2). We thus face that the lost are nothing but dead branches or profane vessels but we can through sanctification work towards purification and honor. We can perhaps see this also with the parable of the sower where some have the thorns of worldly cares snuff them out. ( Mark 4:18-19). A truly saved individual will pass the test of the trials which God places to test His own (see 1 Peter 1:7).
To succeed we need to be hidden in Christ ( Colossians 3:3) and truly be dead in Christ. Our old nature is impossible to put to death otherwise and will forever try to resurrect itself. God has put eternity into the hearts of men ( Ecclesiastes 3:11); yet that verse shows we cannot see to understand God who is basically beyond time and ourselves. Perhaps self preservation is a reflection that we are an eternal soul; thankfully God has the upper hand for those He has called and predestined will make it to glorification; and that for eternity ( Romans 8:30).
The concept of redemption or Kinsman redeemer is seen with the story of Ruth. Christ redeemed us from among men through His atoning sacrifice ( Galatians 3:13). He purchased us with His blood. He has removed our sins as far as the east is from the west ( Psalm 103:12 also read verses 13 to 14). We have passed from death to life ( John 5:24). His Spirit bears witness with our spirit as to our salvation ( Romans 8:16).
These and many other promises are things to meditate on and give comfort. We can only undestand such things if we are spiritually discerned; however and one of His children. ( 1 Cor. 2:14-15). Let us test ourselves to see if we are in the faith therefore ( 2 Cor. 13:5-6).
If we took Romans 2:6-11 by themselves, it would be easy to conclude that they teach salvation by works. They seem to say that those who do good works will thereby earn eternal life. But it should be clear that the passage cannot mean that because then it would flatly contradict the consistent testimony of the rest of Scripture to the effect that salvation is by faith apart from works. There are about 150 passages in the NT condition salvation solely on faith or believing. ( Rom 2:6) No ONE passage, when rightly understood, can contradict such overwhelming testimony. Yet this is exactly what is usually attempted with Galatians 3:28 which flatly contradicts the consistent testimony of the rest of Scripture such as 1 Peter 3:1, 1 Peter 3:5-6, Col 3:18, Ephesians 5:22-24.
[[[When we abide in the Christian doctrine, we give PROOF of the REALITY of our faith.]]] So it makes me really question the salvation of these Western Christian women who don't submit to their husbands, and the majority honestly probably don't."
I can't tell you the enormous amounts of pushback I get from both "Christian" men and women on Ephesians 5 and even more pushback on 1 Corinthians 11 "head coverings during corporate worship whenever I bring it up.
Usually, the go-to scripture for these feminist Christians is Galatians 3:28.
Paul urges all those claiming to be spiritually saved to "examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; TEST yourselves."
2 Corinthians 13:5 (KJV) Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
I am amazed how often Gal 28 is taken out of context to defend the position that wives' are not required to submit to their husbands even in the face of overwhelming clear scripture to the contrary. Let's just ignore 1 Peter 3:1, 1 Peter 3:5-6, Col 3:18, Eph 5:22-24.
Galatians 3:26-29 (KJV) 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
The law made distinctions between these classes. For instance, the distinction between Jew and Gentile is insisted on in Dt 7:6; Dt 14:1, 2. In his morning prayer, a Jewish man thanked God that He had not made him a Gentile, a slave, or a woman. In Christ Jesus these differences disappear, that is, as far as acceptance with God is concerned. A Jew is not preferred over a Gentile, a free man is not more favored than a slave, nor is a man more privileged than a woman. All are on the same level because they are in Christ Jesus.
GALATIONS 28 MUST NOT be pressed into meaning something it does not say. As far as everyday life is concerned (not to mention public ministry in the church), God does recognize the distinction between male and female. The NT contains instructions addressed to each; it also speaks separately to slaves and masters. But in obtaining blessing from God, these things do not matter. The great thing is to be in Christ Jesus. (This refers to our heavenly position, not to our earthly condition.) Before God the believing Jew is not a bit superior to the converted pagan! Govett says: "All the distinctions which the law made are swallowed up in the common grave which God has provided." Therefore, how foolish it is for Christians to seek further holiness by setting up differences which Christ has abolished.
Strobe. There were no people after the "last Adam" (which of course refers to Jesus). Jesus never had a wife or fathered any children of the flesh; however, He did make the Way open & accessible through His Blood, that we might become God's children ( Galatians 3:26; Ephesians 1:4-6; Hebrews 2:10-13). But the first Adam never brought forth Spirit-filled children (since he succumbed to temptation & sin), but he certainly produced many physical children, with unfortunately with the same fallen nature as he. It does take great faith to believe this, as it does take faith to believe that Adam & Eve were the very first human creation of God. But if there were people before Adam, then the Word does not show it, so one again needs great faith to believe the propositions from science, understanding man's very limited knowledge of such a distant past.
Re: Romans 11. Here too, I understand this passage differently. True, unbelieving Jews under the Law are also "under the curse" ( Galatians 3:10,11). And if they continued to place themselves under the Law, when that Law under that Covenant no longer existed (or, had become invalid), then they were doomed & cut out of the olive tree. There were still Jews that became believers ( Romans 11:5,7: the elect (Jews) had obtained salvation, along with the Gentiles who believed (also now the elect of God) & subsequently engrafted into the tree ( Romans 11:17-21)). So I believe that those who would not believe, received 'the spirit of blindness, deafness & slumber', but only temporary (v11), hopefully to be "provoked to jealousy", seeing the Gentiles have embraced the Messiah Whom they rejected & crucified.
But if the Law only 'matured', now to be embraced under the New Covenant, then the bindings & judgements of that Law must still weigh upon those in Christ. I see that there is more to the Old Law, than just a set of holy Commandments to be obeyed. It has to be cast off so that the one in Christ can truly come under the liberty & power that the Spirit gives. So the apostle could exclaim that he was now free from the law of sin & death, embracing the Law of the life-giving Spirit. If the old Law only 'matured' into the New, the full value of the New Covenant may be understood to be diminished.
And re: "fused together", I wasn't referring to the elect being fused together, but to the Law that was given under the Old Covenant to the Law under the New Covenant. But when the elect of Israel turn to the Lord, not only will the veil be taken away ( 2 Corinthians 3:16), but we, together with them can enjoy liberty in obedience to Christ; and particularly for the Jew, I would think that the transition would truly be liberating, giving the certainty & joy that the Law denied them. And we can see the emotion of Paul in his dealing with this subject in his letters.
You said many good things in which I agree and I would like to add my two cents to say that Freedom from the law, in actuality Frees us from being under Any obligation to follow Anything a man would make us to do! Just because a leader of my church doesn't understand something that God has Commanded me to do doesn't mean that I shouldn't obey God, on the contrary, I'm to forsake everything in this world for God! You mention freedom and then you limit freedom by putting restraints upon it by saying that freedom doesn't remove universal laws; and then you give examples by mentioning murder, divorce, and adultery. You see the conflict? The law was our schoolmaster ONLY until Christ came to give us The Holy Spirit! "But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed." Galatians 3:23 KJV "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith." Galatians 3:24 KJV "But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster." Galatians 3:25 KJV "For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:26 KJV
Now, don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying to use your freedom to sin; but I am saying that no matter what God Commands, if He indeed does Command it, then He has made it holy! With that said; there are only four things (that I have noticed) that there is no provision for in the holy bible, 1) idolatry, 2) sexual immorality, 3)blaspheme against The Holy Spirit, and 4) hypocrisy. As far as I can tell these are things God will NEVER ask Anyone to do. But, just to give you pause in judgment, the conquering of Canaan was called for ONLY when GOD Himself came to Direct it Himself! " ( Joshua 5:13-15). For we can know that it was God because angels do not allow themselves to be worshipped.
Have you ever presented the Gospel to a atheist or perhaps a Muslim?
The first thing they refer you to is the 10 commandments and their argument sounds just like those who present the keeping of the law as a means of salvation.
So, they should have a clear understanding of what the law was for and what it did "by the scriptures" through a study in Romans, Galatians, and Corinthians.
Romans 7:8-14.
Galatians 2:16-21.
Galatians 3:1-29.
2 Corinthians 3:5-11. and then perhaps scriptures like Philippians 3:2-14.
These verses convict the sinner and put all under sin. That's what the law was for!
Our outward ceremonies and obedience at our best couldn't make us perfect! There is no new birth!
God requires perfection that is why he required a perfect replacement, Lamb. Christ Jesus.
SANCTIFICATION FOLLWS THIS.
Consider Israel.
God displayed the fallen nature of man and their inability to perform even while God was in their midst and carried them. This was and still is an example to us.
We are lost hopeless sheep gone astray apart from Jesus's blood shed on the cross.
Understand Matthew 21:42.
Jesus is the chief cornerstone, the pivotal piece of the foundation in which we are to build on.
When we are led by the Spirit we're building with precious stone. When we are led by the flesh, we build with wood hay and stubble. every man's work shall be tested by fire.
WHEN ISRAEL AS A NATION IS DRIVEN TO CALL ON THEIR MESSIAH THOSE WHO ACCEPT HIM AT THAT TIME WILL BE SAVED ALSO. AND GOD WILL BE SANCTIFIED IN THEM.
Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Wherefore, my brethren, YE ALSO ARE BECOME DEAD TO THE LAW BY THE BODY OF CHRIST; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
For WHEN WE WERE in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to BRING FORTH FRUIT UNTO DEATH.
( The law shows us we have a fleshly nature that is fallen and incapable of bringing forth fruit unto God.)
Galatians 3:21-25.
Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Romans 7:6.
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Hope your weekend went well brother, if I may give my understanding of Ephesians 4:8-10. As He Ascended up on High, Acts 1:9 He led captivity captive and gave gifts unto men.
He led captivity captive; we see this also in Judges 5:12 which has a meaning to take captive your captors. When Jesus rose from the grave, he took power over what held Him captive. Death and the grave were what held Him, but because He was without sin, they could not hold Him Acts 2:24. Since the garden, Satan had the power of death and the grave, and when Jesus rose from the grave, He took that power which are the keys, Revelation 1:18.
Gifts unto men, we see this in Psalms 68:18. These gifts are also for the rebellious. These gifts are for all people in Acts 1:8 Jesus gave the commission to the Apostles just before He ascended to heaven. The gifts are in Ephesians 4:11-12 He gave apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; all for the ministry for the perfecting of the saints. For the work of the ministry for the edifying of the body of Christ for all people. It is the gift to mankind for their salvation, no better gift can be given to man.
He that descended, when Jesus died, He was dead for three days. Jesus descended into death, and the grave, and because He had no sin, they had no power over Him. The first Adam through his disobedience brought sin and death to mankind, Jesus the second Adam through His obedience brought life.
If there were those whom Jesus brought with Him when He resurrected, I would think it would be David but in Acts 2:29 and Acts 2:34 David is dead and buried and has not ascended to heaven. This earth is our home and our reward we do not go to heaven. We are heirs according to the promise, Galatians 3:26-29, Genesis 12:7, Genesis 13:5 it is forever, and Romans 4:13 the whole earth.
Rev. 5:10Psalms 37:9,22,34 This earth is where we will be not heaven.
What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD, self-executing.
Again:
We can do nothing against Truth, except by the Truth. The Devil said to JESUS:" It is written-Ps.91:11- He shall give his angels charge concerning thee:and in their hands they shall bear thee up..." JESUS said to the Devil: But it is also written,Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy GOD
Your spirit surreptitiously suggested / suggests to keep the commandments given to Moses.
Galatians 5:4-5
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you (means separated from Christ), whosoever of you are justified by the Law(the commandments); ye are fallen from grace.
5 We through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Galatians 3:10-12
11 The just shall live by faith, no man is justified by the Law of Moses in the sight of GOD, it is evident:
12 The Law is not of faith
Matthew 11:13 - JESUS said: All the prophets and the law prophesied until John . period
10 As many as are of the WORKS of the Law (given to Moses) are under the CURSE. -> God forbiden
There's maybe a handful such as Bro Dan that believes the commandments was given as a requirement to earn salvation. "When you are done, God owes you"
Look at it this way.
Ok, IF the commandments was given as a requirement to earn your salvation.
Here's questions we should ask ourselves
Does the scripture say; "do the best you can, OR KEEP THEM?, It says keep them!
Can the commandments cause one to be born Again as mentioned in John 3:1-21? Nicodemus a teacher of the Law could not comprehend this.
How many times can you get away with sin before you are doomed for hell? ( I would suggest that you are born a sinner, being that you have to be born Again to become saved.)
If God required a perfect Lamb to take your place and atone for your sins
it's because God required you to be perfect in keeping yourself apart from sin. ( ALL YOUR LIFE)
The thought of sinning is a sin!
No one was able to do this and no one e ever will!
WE ARE TO DO OUR BEST BUT THAT NOT GOOD ENOUGH!
WE NEEDED A SAVIOUR!
Please read Galatians 3:1-29 and
Romans 7:14-25.
Also let's take a look at what Dan shared.
1 John 3:24. "AND HE THAT KEEPETH HIS COMMANDMENTS DWELLETH IN HIM, AND HE IN HIM. AND HEREBY WE KNOW THAT HE ABIDETH IN US, BY THE SPIRIT WHICH HE HATH GIVEN US."
( This is done after salvation!! Hereby we know he is in us, when we keep his commandment.)
This is what I said in my first reply!
( Everything else is obedience to him after you are saved, because he wills you and Lords over your life with a regenerated heart )
Let's go to the previous verse to see what this commandment is to get more context.
1 John 3:23AND THIS IS HIS COMMANDMENT, THAT WE SHOULD BELIEVE ON THE NAME OF HIS SON JESUS CHRIST, AND LOVE ONE ANOTHER, as he gave us commandment.
One is heirs of the promises of salvation by faith. Galatians 3:1-16.
The other is a geographic Land here on Earth;
"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that they shall no more say, The LORD liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
But, The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land. Jeremiah 23:5-8.
The Israel of God.
Galatians 6:12-16.
Here is the context in verse 12) As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.
These were the judaizers, who wanted "to make a fair shew in the flesh" they were checking on the Galatians to constrain them to be circumcised.
We have two groups in play here within the body of Christ.
1) Messianic Jews/Israel is the circumcision, The Israel of God mentioned in verse 16.
2) The Gentiles is the uncircumcision and the "them" mentioned in verse 16,
It reads; "..peace be on them, and mercy, (AND) upon the Israel of God.
The remnant of believing Israel, "according to the election of grace" within the nation of Israel ( Rom. 9:6; 11:5), is recognized as the true "spiritual Israel"
It would have been strange for the apostle Paul, the Jewish believer who wrote Galatians, to refer to Gentile Christians as Israel.
Thanks for responding, it's been a busy week, sorry for such a late response.
Part 1.
Acts 7:35-38 emphasis is on Moses not the Church. besides this gathering/church is the Nation Israel, Not Christ church "that he would later build mentioned in Matthew 16:18.
Christ have not been crucified yet, so the church couldn't have already been built.
The church was not built on the sacrifices of goats and calves, nor would it be built while the first tabernacle stood.
Church definition.
a calling out that is (concretely) a popular meeting especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both
As you mentioned, In Matthew 16:18 Jesus says upon this rock he will build HIS CHURCH.
So, this rock that Jesus mentions in which he will build his Church, is a rock of offence and a stumbling block to the Jews, so this gathering "The Church " is not the gathering in the wilderness.
GIGI
Galatians 3:29. Is not talking about any promises back to the land here on earth. It's not a Kingdom verse at all. It's about a contrast between Salvation by faith and the works of the Law. That's not a land promises!
Theme; Galatians 3:1-2.
Vs 14) That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Also, Hebrews 11 is a chapter about faith!
The new Jerusalem comes down from heaven "After" The Millennium kingdom here on Earth. Revelation 21:1-2.
Revelation 20:7. And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
The Chruch is the true Israel of God and heirs to God's promises to Abraham
Galatians 3:29 'And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.'
Galatians 6"15-16 'For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and the mercy, and upon the Israel of God.'
All who are in Christ through faith, as Abraham was, are the seed that receive the promise of God to Abraham, the inheritance Abraham looked forward to, the heavenly Jerusalem. Hebrews 11:10.
The promise of the physical land to Abraham and the Israelites was a shadow pointing to the heavenly land of promise, the New heavens and new earth of eternal life with Jesus. The land of Israel was described as flowing with milk and honey, the New Jerusalem is described as flowing with living waters and fruit from the tree of life continually. Both figurative language for the abundant blessings of life in abundance from God for those who are of the faith of Abraham.
In consideration of your request and for your verification, I am sending what I was able to conclude in my private Bible study, as follows:
The Bible I use is King James Version -> Biblegateway
SIX PERIODS OF BIBLICAL TIMES --------------------------- DURATION
I- From Adam to the Flood-( Genesis 5:1-32 plus 7:11)-----1656 years
II- From the Flood to Abraham-( Genesis 11:10-32 & 12:4---427 years
III- From Abraham to Exodus-( Galatians 3:17)---------------430 years
IV-From Exodus to king Saul-(1Reis6:1(480 minus 84 yrs)--396 years
V-From Saul to Jerusalem's fall(1095-587BC)----------------508 years
(my source: Biblical Dictionary)
VI-From the fall of Jerusalem (587BC) to Jesus --------------587 years --> Total = 4004 years
(source: Biblical Dictionary)
That's what I have to report. I hope it helps,
GOD bless
The subject of prophecy never seems to be an issue in one regard among those who generally hold to proper scriptural interpretation in one sense; that is of PAST fulfillment. A Reformed church and many other traditional denominational assemblies hold onto belief that the Prophets accurately predicted specific events; in particular relating to the first coming of Christ. When it comes to future prophecies related to the nation of Israel and the Millennium there is often confusion as to what is taken literally and what is meant figuratively. Thus; again sometimes it is claimed that we can't understand certain things; or perhaps more insidious that because of an isolated doctrinal stance we can't pigeonhole something being literally fulfilled because it threatens that doctrine. Needless to say if our doctrines are truly Biblical and we take scripture literally unless clearly indicated as figurative we can make a lot more sense of things.
We need to remind ourselves that when Christ came the first time He was; by and large not received by His own ( John 1:11). We also need to realize that no matter how much prophecy we read if we are not written in the Book of life we are ultimately going to be deceived to the point that ALL who aren't there will worship the Antichrist (Beast) mentioned in Revelation 13:8.
As I have commented numerous times in the past few years at this site; by the sixth seal it is clear there are no more Atheists; nonetheless many will continue to live in open rebellion and follow Satan to their doom at Armageddon after damning themselves and taking the Mark of the Beast. Despite these factors; there are some who have reservations as to the Eschatology of a Millennium period; for example who I still fellowship with despite disagreeing with their interpretations.
A bigger issue is those who think God is done with Israel; a common verse used is Romans 9:6 as well as Galatians 3:7.
I will discuss this further.
Is it more important to appease men, or more important to please God? To the church, it should be obvious what the priority is, but I think some cave to public pressure and fear they may lose funding or social status by not siding with the bullies. Some try to appease the world instead of God.
What's this bullying really about and why the huge push in recent years? They claim its their identity, they're born that way, and don't have a choice. But has anyone challenged this assumption?
What are other examples of someone born with such a high proclivity to sin that they absolutely "have no choice"? I'm not aware of any, in fact, the Bible says we always have a choice- a way out of sin. 1 Corinthians 10:13 KJV
We all have different obstacles in life; some, like Paul, had a thorn in the flesh. 2 Corinthians 12:7
I reject the assumption that some people are more "equal" than others. Equal means equal, not special protected classes and treatment. I've learned that the woke movement is now racially separating people just like they did 100 years ago, whether for hiring, or DEI classes, and who knows what else. Amazing full circle. They totally ignored everything MLK stood for.
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28 KJV
The culture is ignoring this verse that we're equal.
There's no evidence anyone's identity is tied to sin so much they can't help but do that. No baby desires such things. It's learned and when opportunities present themselves. Now pedos use same arguments to excuse their horrific abuse of kids. The culture will use clever words to defend it. There's no end to the evil progression. It's a choice.
Part 5. J Vernon Mcgee. (Paul and James View Justification.)
Therefore, we see that when Paul uses the term justification he is talking about a man's relationship with God; when James uses the same term, he is talking about a man's relationship with the world. One is perpendicular, and the other is horizontal.
Paul and James View Faith.
The same procedure runs true in their use of the term faith. Again, they mean something different. When Paul talks of faith he is talking about that which is toward God. Paul says that saving faith - a faith that is genuine and real - will transform a person's life. Paul said of himself,
But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. ( Philippians 3:7)
A real revolution took place in his life when he came to Christ. Looking again at Galatians 3:6, we read that "as Abraham believed Godit was accounted to him for righteousness." And then in Romans:
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. ( Romans 4:5)
Paul is speaking here of that which we bring to God. The only thing that a sinner can bring to God is faith in Jesus Christ. When James writes about this, he is not talking about faith toward God but about the works of faith. So Paul is talking about the root of faith, and James is talking about the fruit of faith, but they are both defending the citadel of faith.
Here in James 2:14.
James is not talking about the works of the Law. The faith that James is talking about here is professing faith, that which is phony and counterfeit. Paul refers to the same idea when he says in 1 Corinthians 15:2, "unless ye have believed in vain." Paul also wrote, "Examine yourselves, whether you are in the faith" ( 2 Corinthians 13:5). James simply says that the faith which saves you will produce works-"works of faith.
See Part 6. Paul and James View Faith.
Part 3
ABRAHAM.
Genesis 22:1-18.
Vs 14-18. And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovah-jireh, as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen. And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD; for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son; That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the seashore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because thou hast obeyed my voice.
Was Abraham justified by works? Yes.
Scripture says that he was justified by works. ( James 2:21-24)
Do we have here a contradiction to the apostle Paul? Did not Paul say that Abraham was justified by faith - not by works? Paul makes a very specific statement in Romans:
"For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath something of which to glory, but not before God. ( Romans 4:2)
Then over in Galatians 3:6 we read, "Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."
Is Paul and James writings in conflict on this point? NO!
Here is an article by J Vernon Mcgee explaining this Paradox.
Paul vs. James in the Use of Words.
May I hasten to state that Paul and James do not conflict at all. They are in entire agreement. As someone has said, "Paul and James do not stand face to face, fighting against each other, but they stand back to back fighting opposite foes." The whole problem lies in the fact that they use the same words, but with a different meaning altogether. They are discussing the same subject from different viewpoints. This you will find upon examining the context.
See Part 4.
J Vernon Mcgee. (Paul vs. James in the Use of Words)
When you say that one is saying "we don't have to keep the 10 commandments" when they say the law was given to the nation Israel" I believe that is where you err.
I believe most agree with you that the 10 commandments and the law is relevant for us today.
However, they weren't given to make one righteous.
They were called 'The ministration of death", written and engraven in stones, or "Ministration of condemnation". NOT "The ministration of the spirit or Ministration of righteousness" As mentioned, and the two compared in 2 Corinthians 3:6-11
Is there a difference between the law and the 10 commandments?
"They both are a part of the Ministration of condemnation".
The law was written to deal with the 10 commandments by way of pattern or a foreshadowing. Those temporary articles could not make us righteous by that which slew us.
Look how Paul uses them both in Romans 7:7-14 "What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. ( Exodus 20:17)
But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
For I was alive without "THE LAW" once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
So, the question should be "Do the law and commandments "APPLY" to us today. The answer is Yes! We all were under sin.
Here is where we factor in Galatians 3:11-26.
God bless.
Didn't you understand yet? Around 4000 years after Adam GOD still was working, don't you learn this yet, or don't you believe in the Word of GOD? JOHN 5:17 - Jesus said to the keepers of Sabbath day: My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. By the way, when my Lord JESUS said that to the Jews, it laready was the beginning of the fith GOD's Day, don't you know of this? Why GOD the Father still was working in the turn from the fourth to the fifth GOD's Day? Now, now, it because GOD the Father had established for He Himself, since the beginning, to work 6 Days and to rest in the seventh Day. Now, now, the seventh GOD's Day is now, even now, from now on, understand? From Adam until this current time have passed around 6000 years complete. So, you and everyone who thinks like you, must understand that only now, even now, from now on, will GOD the Father rest from His works. Again: It was still the fourth Day, so, understand, JESUS, the Greater Light, said to the Jews: My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Of course, GOD and my Lord JESUS was working in the fourth Day, GOD the Father and JESUS are One, dispite being two distincts Persons- Hebrews 1:1-3- , and as you know, "without my Lord JESUS was not any thing made that was made"- John 1:3.
Be sure that GOD the Father rests only now in the seventh and last Day, and my Lord JESUS takes command of the Universe and History, in Time and Space, now from this seventh Day onwards. And in the kingdom of GOD- Revelation 11:15 combined with Luke 20:35-36- , which will be established now in the seventh GOD's Day , no seventh-day keeper will come in with his deceptive doctrine, whose doctrine was invented by the seducing spirit of Devil - Genesis 3:1- , and it was sowed through those which departed from the faith- Galatians 3:11, giving heed to doctrines of devils.
Be careful or then get ready
The Word is GOD, what matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, understand? There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Greetings in Christ JESUS
You have just said in prior post that you have never met one believer that has not sinned in some way as a believer. Here's the great problem of those which justifies themselves as keepers of the Sabbath day according to the letter of the Law, for as said James in his universal epistle- James 2:10- , "whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all". What more does the Word of GOD say? Romans 2:12 ->... as many as have sinned in the Law shall be Judged by the Law, therefore, he who sins in the Law becomes guilty of all, then by the Law he will be condemned for sure. Galatians 3:11 - ...no man is justified by the Law in the sight of GOD it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Galatians 5:4 - Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the Law; ye are fallen from grace.(are wretchad)
Galatians 3:8-10
8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that GOD would justify the Gentiles through faith(not by the Law), preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the Law to do them.
Romans 7:6 - But now we are delivered from the Law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Hebrews 4:
12 For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom WE MUST RENDER AN ACCOUNT.
You wrote in another post that you provided much evidence to support the belief that the Church maintained its 'Sabbath Day worship' position. I may have missed it, as I only remember you quoted Constantine, the Laodicean Council, an RC Priest Enright, Jeremy Taylor, & maybe others. Yet, verifiable references were given you of men/writings such as Justin the Martyr, Ignatius of Antioch, the Didache (apostolic teachings), Clement of Alexandria, and others, who referred to Christians meeting on a Sunday rather than the Sabbath - all these were men who preceded the men/council you referred to. It is true that Sunday worship was ordered & ratified much later by those of the RC persuasion, but the point in this discussion is, where does the truth lie & does an RC edict cause all believers to blindly follow it? I would think that a lot more weight needs to be given to the testimony of those men (post-apostolic) & if not, then the reason(s) for their disallowance needs to be given.
And lastly, the Ten Commandments are a single unit of obedience & requirements for Israel, not given to Gentiles nor the Church. The breaking of even one of them meant judgement - for the Law could never give life ( Galatians 3:19-21). How many in the Church have converted that Law given only to Israel to now apply to the Church as well, still mystifies me (as I read how the Law, though holy & good, has now been abrogated through Christ's death). The point that should be discussed is the relationship of that old Law to the Law given us (applied to our hearts) by the Spirit, & why some choose to fuse the two together when it cannot be done. See Hebrews 7:12,18,19. GBU.
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the WORKS of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the WORKS of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Galatians 3:1,2 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the WORKS OF THE LAW, or by the hearing of faith{Christ's faith}?
Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the WORKS OF THE LAW are under the CURSE: for it is written, CURSED is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
In these verses God is making it crystal clear that if we are following a gospel that is conditioned upon our good WORKS, we are CURSED.
So what is a good WORK? Are our BELIEF, our FAITH, our REPENTENCE good WORKS? The best definition of a "good WORK", I believe, is "any obedience to the COMMANDMENTS of God, the LAW of God". Are we not COMMANDED to Believe and to have FAITH in Christ; are these not "gifts" of God and part and parcel of Salvation?
2 Thessalonians 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the WORK OF FAITH with power:
Ephesians 2:8,9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Phil 2:12,13 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, WORK out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is GOD WHICH WORKETH in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Our Faith, Belief, Repentance are WORKS and a RESULT and EVIDENCE of, not REQUIREMENTS for, Salvation.
Yes, you are right, truer, for you did an excellent biblical study and got to a true conclusion that is confirmed even by the Word of GOD. According Exodus 12:40-41 the children of Israel dwelt in Egypt 430 years. Paul Apostle says the same in his epistle to the Church of Galatians- Galatians 3:17.
God bless you, and remain prepared with your lamp(GOD's Word), and oil, (because only lamp is not suffice to meet the Lord JESUS), so that your lamp does not go out in this turn from the sixth to the seventh Day, the Lord's Day, for it's midnight at GOD's clock and the darkness is great and is dangerous. Remember Psalm 91 as a whole, here I highlight verse 5&6 that say: 5 "Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; ... 6 Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; ...
Again: GOD bless
The seed of Abram lived 400 years in the Egypt, in that period GOD made to be born Moses, since then GOD worked to fulfill His promise to Abram, it was in the half of the 2nd to the 3rd GOD's work Day,or around 2500 years after Adam(1500 years BC),and in the given period of time, GOD fulfilled His promise to Abram,as follow:
From Abraham to the Exodus really passed 430 years( Galatians 3:17,take a look)
Moses was 80 years when GOD sent him to bring His people out of Egypt,and died at 120 years old.Moses was born around 310 years after Abraham,and lived 40 years at the Egyptian court- Acts 7:23. After,Moses fled from the face of Pharaoh,and dwelt in the land of Midian by 40 years pasturing flocks- Acts 7:30. Then,GOD called Moses,saying:"Come now therefore,and I will send thee unto Pharaoh, that you may bring forth my people the children of Israel out of Egypt".Moses was 80 years old
Moses spent 40 years leading the Hebrew people to the promised land- Acts 7:36,it was around 2513 years after Adam(two Days and half,of GODs' works)
God bless
Yes, Jema, Galatians 3:28 says we are all one in Christ without rank, but equal and equally blessed with the workings of the Holy Spirit.
I am certainly aware that what women, you and myself included, say in fellowship with others may not be accepted by some men due to the verse discussed in Giannis' post, (but he is not one of them) but each man or woman is to be obedient to the promptings and instructions of the Holy Spirit as to what to say to and what to receive from other believers regardless of their gender. You and I are responsible for what we say and do not need to own what others are willing to receive. If their convictions towards receiving biblical insights from women don't allow them to do so, then I believe God will bring the same insights to them from a man in the future according to His will. So I don't fret over this.
I am thankful for this forum and blessed by those who participate. Being pretty much a homebody since Covid and retirement, I don't get a chance each day to share insights with others outside my family often, so this forum allows for us to use our minds that God has blessed us with that are being transformed by the Spirit to be as the mind of Christ.
Thank you for the kind reply
"That is, They which are the children of the flesh(Israel), these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed."
Romans 9:6-8,
"6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Galatians 4:28,
"Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise."
Galatians 3:29,
"And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise (of the eternal life)."
2 Timothy 2:21 shows that we can clean ourselves so that we are not just vessels of clay but can be vessels of honor. Jesus tells us that he purges branches to produce more fruit ( John 15:2). We thus face that the lost are nothing but dead branches or profane vessels but we can through sanctification work towards purification and honor. We can perhaps see this also with the parable of the sower where some have the thorns of worldly cares snuff them out. ( Mark 4:18-19). A truly saved individual will pass the test of the trials which God places to test His own (see 1 Peter 1:7).
To succeed we need to be hidden in Christ ( Colossians 3:3) and truly be dead in Christ. Our old nature is impossible to put to death otherwise and will forever try to resurrect itself. God has put eternity into the hearts of men ( Ecclesiastes 3:11); yet that verse shows we cannot see to understand God who is basically beyond time and ourselves. Perhaps self preservation is a reflection that we are an eternal soul; thankfully God has the upper hand for those He has called and predestined will make it to glorification; and that for eternity ( Romans 8:30).
The concept of redemption or Kinsman redeemer is seen with the story of Ruth. Christ redeemed us from among men through His atoning sacrifice ( Galatians 3:13). He purchased us with His blood. He has removed our sins as far as the east is from the west ( Psalm 103:12 also read verses 13 to 14). We have passed from death to life ( John 5:24). His Spirit bears witness with our spirit as to our salvation ( Romans 8:16).
These and many other promises are things to meditate on and give comfort. We can only undestand such things if we are spiritually discerned; however and one of His children. ( 1 Cor. 2:14-15). Let us test ourselves to see if we are in the faith therefore ( 2 Cor. 13:5-6).
Agape.
I can't tell you the enormous amounts of pushback I get from both "Christian" men and women on Ephesians 5 and even more pushback on 1 Corinthians 11 "head coverings during corporate worship whenever I bring it up.
Usually, the go-to scripture for these feminist Christians is Galatians 3:28.
Paul urges all those claiming to be spiritually saved to "examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; TEST yourselves."
2 Corinthians 13:5 (KJV) Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
Galatians 3:26-29 (KJV) 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
The law made distinctions between these classes. For instance, the distinction between Jew and Gentile is insisted on in Dt 7:6; Dt 14:1, 2. In his morning prayer, a Jewish man thanked God that He had not made him a Gentile, a slave, or a woman. In Christ Jesus these differences disappear, that is, as far as acceptance with God is concerned. A Jew is not preferred over a Gentile, a free man is not more favored than a slave, nor is a man more privileged than a woman. All are on the same level because they are in Christ Jesus.
GALATIONS 28 MUST NOT be pressed into meaning something it does not say. As far as everyday life is concerned (not to mention public ministry in the church), God does recognize the distinction between male and female. The NT contains instructions addressed to each; it also speaks separately to slaves and masters. But in obtaining blessing from God, these things do not matter. The great thing is to be in Christ Jesus. (This refers to our heavenly position, not to our earthly condition.) Before God the believing Jew is not a bit superior to the converted pagan! Govett says: "All the distinctions which the law made are swallowed up in the common grave which God has provided." Therefore, how foolish it is for Christians to seek further holiness by setting up differences which Christ has abolished.
Re: Romans 11. Here too, I understand this passage differently. True, unbelieving Jews under the Law are also "under the curse" ( Galatians 3:10,11). And if they continued to place themselves under the Law, when that Law under that Covenant no longer existed (or, had become invalid), then they were doomed & cut out of the olive tree. There were still Jews that became believers ( Romans 11:5,7: the elect (Jews) had obtained salvation, along with the Gentiles who believed (also now the elect of God) & subsequently engrafted into the tree ( Romans 11:17-21)). So I believe that those who would not believe, received 'the spirit of blindness, deafness & slumber', but only temporary (v11), hopefully to be "provoked to jealousy", seeing the Gentiles have embraced the Messiah Whom they rejected & crucified.
But if the Law only 'matured', now to be embraced under the New Covenant, then the bindings & judgements of that Law must still weigh upon those in Christ. I see that there is more to the Old Law, than just a set of holy Commandments to be obeyed. It has to be cast off so that the one in Christ can truly come under the liberty & power that the Spirit gives. So the apostle could exclaim that he was now free from the law of sin & death, embracing the Law of the life-giving Spirit. If the old Law only 'matured' into the New, the full value of the New Covenant may be understood to be diminished.
And re: "fused together", I wasn't referring to the elect being fused together, but to the Law that was given under the Old Covenant to the Law under the New Covenant. But when the elect of Israel turn to the Lord, not only will the veil be taken away ( 2 Corinthians 3:16), but we, together with them can enjoy liberty in obedience to Christ; and particularly for the Jew, I would think that the transition would truly be liberating, giving the certainty & joy that the Law denied them. And we can see the emotion of Paul in his dealing with this subject in his letters.
You said many good things in which I agree and I would like to add my two cents to say that Freedom from the law, in actuality Frees us from being under Any obligation to follow Anything a man would make us to do! Just because a leader of my church doesn't understand something that God has Commanded me to do doesn't mean that I shouldn't obey God, on the contrary, I'm to forsake everything in this world for God! You mention freedom and then you limit freedom by putting restraints upon it by saying that freedom doesn't remove universal laws; and then you give examples by mentioning murder, divorce, and adultery. You see the conflict? The law was our schoolmaster ONLY until Christ came to give us The Holy Spirit! "But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed." Galatians 3:23 KJV "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith." Galatians 3:24 KJV "But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster." Galatians 3:25 KJV "For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:26 KJV
Now, don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying to use your freedom to sin; but I am saying that no matter what God Commands, if He indeed does Command it, then He has made it holy! With that said; there are only four things (that I have noticed) that there is no provision for in the holy bible, 1) idolatry, 2) sexual immorality, 3)blaspheme against The Holy Spirit, and 4) hypocrisy. As far as I can tell these are things God will NEVER ask Anyone to do. But, just to give you pause in judgment, the conquering of Canaan was called for ONLY when GOD Himself came to Direct it Himself! " ( Joshua 5:13-15). For we can know that it was God because angels do not allow themselves to be worshipped.
The first thing they refer you to is the 10 commandments and their argument sounds just like those who present the keeping of the law as a means of salvation.
So, they should have a clear understanding of what the law was for and what it did "by the scriptures" through a study in Romans, Galatians, and Corinthians.
Romans 7:8-14.
Galatians 2:16-21.
Galatians 3:1-29.
2 Corinthians 3:5-11. and then perhaps scriptures like Philippians 3:2-14.
These verses convict the sinner and put all under sin. That's what the law was for!
Our outward ceremonies and obedience at our best couldn't make us perfect! There is no new birth!
God requires perfection that is why he required a perfect replacement, Lamb. Christ Jesus.
SANCTIFICATION FOLLWS THIS.
Consider Israel.
God displayed the fallen nature of man and their inability to perform even while God was in their midst and carried them. This was and still is an example to us.
We are lost hopeless sheep gone astray apart from Jesus's blood shed on the cross.
Understand Matthew 21:42.
Jesus is the chief cornerstone, the pivotal piece of the foundation in which we are to build on.
When we are led by the Spirit we're building with precious stone. When we are led by the flesh, we build with wood hay and stubble. every man's work shall be tested by fire.
WHEN ISRAEL AS A NATION IS DRIVEN TO CALL ON THEIR MESSIAH THOSE WHO ACCEPT HIM AT THAT TIME WILL BE SAVED ALSO. AND GOD WILL BE SANCTIFIED IN THEM.
God bless
Part 1
Romans 7:1-5
Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Wherefore, my brethren, YE ALSO ARE BECOME DEAD TO THE LAW BY THE BODY OF CHRIST; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
For WHEN WE WERE in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to BRING FORTH FRUIT UNTO DEATH.
( The law shows us we have a fleshly nature that is fallen and incapable of bringing forth fruit unto God.)
Galatians 3:21-25.
Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Romans 7:6.
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
See Part 2.
Hope your weekend went well brother, if I may give my understanding of Ephesians 4:8-10. As He Ascended up on High, Acts 1:9 He led captivity captive and gave gifts unto men.
He led captivity captive; we see this also in Judges 5:12 which has a meaning to take captive your captors. When Jesus rose from the grave, he took power over what held Him captive. Death and the grave were what held Him, but because He was without sin, they could not hold Him Acts 2:24. Since the garden, Satan had the power of death and the grave, and when Jesus rose from the grave, He took that power which are the keys, Revelation 1:18.
Gifts unto men, we see this in Psalms 68:18. These gifts are also for the rebellious. These gifts are for all people in Acts 1:8 Jesus gave the commission to the Apostles just before He ascended to heaven. The gifts are in Ephesians 4:11-12 He gave apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; all for the ministry for the perfecting of the saints. For the work of the ministry for the edifying of the body of Christ for all people. It is the gift to mankind for their salvation, no better gift can be given to man.
He that descended, when Jesus died, He was dead for three days. Jesus descended into death, and the grave, and because He had no sin, they had no power over Him. The first Adam through his disobedience brought sin and death to mankind, Jesus the second Adam through His obedience brought life.
If there were those whom Jesus brought with Him when He resurrected, I would think it would be David but in Acts 2:29 and Acts 2:34 David is dead and buried and has not ascended to heaven. This earth is our home and our reward we do not go to heaven. We are heirs according to the promise, Galatians 3:26-29, Genesis 12:7, Genesis 13:5 it is forever, and Romans 4:13 the whole earth.
Rev. 5:10 Psalms 37:9,22,34 This earth is where we will be not heaven.
God bless you, brother,
RLW
What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD, self-executing.
Again:
We can do nothing against Truth, except by the Truth. The Devil said to JESUS:" It is written-Ps.91:11- He shall give his angels charge concerning thee:and in their hands they shall bear thee up..." JESUS said to the Devil: But it is also written,Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy GOD
Your spirit surreptitiously suggested / suggests to keep the commandments given to Moses.
Galatians 5:4-5
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you (means separated from Christ), whosoever of you are justified by the Law(the commandments); ye are fallen from grace.
5 We through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Galatians 3:10-12
11 The just shall live by faith, no man is justified by the Law of Moses in the sight of GOD, it is evident:
12 The Law is not of faith
Matthew 11:13 - JESUS said: All the prophets and the law prophesied until John . period
10 As many as are of the WORKS of the Law (given to Moses) are under the CURSE. -> God forbiden
This is a topic that comes up often on this site.
There's maybe a handful such as Bro Dan that believes the commandments was given as a requirement to earn salvation. "When you are done, God owes you"
Look at it this way.
Ok, IF the commandments was given as a requirement to earn your salvation.
Here's questions we should ask ourselves
Does the scripture say; "do the best you can, OR KEEP THEM?, It says keep them!
Can the commandments cause one to be born Again as mentioned in John 3:1-21? Nicodemus a teacher of the Law could not comprehend this.
How many times can you get away with sin before you are doomed for hell? ( I would suggest that you are born a sinner, being that you have to be born Again to become saved.)
If God required a perfect Lamb to take your place and atone for your sins
it's because God required you to be perfect in keeping yourself apart from sin. ( ALL YOUR LIFE)
The thought of sinning is a sin!
No one was able to do this and no one e ever will!
WE ARE TO DO OUR BEST BUT THAT NOT GOOD ENOUGH!
WE NEEDED A SAVIOUR!
Please read Galatians 3:1-29 and
Romans 7:14-25.
Also let's take a look at what Dan shared.
1 John 3:24. "AND HE THAT KEEPETH HIS COMMANDMENTS DWELLETH IN HIM, AND HE IN HIM. AND HEREBY WE KNOW THAT HE ABIDETH IN US, BY THE SPIRIT WHICH HE HATH GIVEN US."
( This is done after salvation!! Hereby we know he is in us, when we keep his commandment.)
This is what I said in my first reply!
( Everything else is obedience to him after you are saved, because he wills you and Lords over your life with a regenerated heart )
Let's go to the previous verse to see what this commandment is to get more context.
1 John 3:23AND THIS IS HIS COMMANDMENT, THAT WE SHOULD BELIEVE ON THE NAME OF HIS SON JESUS CHRIST, AND LOVE ONE ANOTHER, as he gave us commandment.
This is what the Holyspirit causes you to do!
John is telling you what you should expect.
I pray others can help also.
Back to work for me.
GB
Part 3.
We are dealing with two separate issues here.
One is heirs of the promises of salvation by faith. Galatians 3:1-16.
The other is a geographic Land here on Earth;
"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that they shall no more say, The LORD liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
But, The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land. Jeremiah 23:5-8.
The Israel of God.
Galatians 6:12-16.
Here is the context in verse 12) As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.
These were the judaizers, who wanted "to make a fair shew in the flesh" they were checking on the Galatians to constrain them to be circumcised.
We have two groups in play here within the body of Christ.
1) Messianic Jews/Israel is the circumcision, The Israel of God mentioned in verse 16.
2) The Gentiles is the uncircumcision and the "them" mentioned in verse 16,
It reads; "..peace be on them, and mercy, (AND) upon the Israel of God.
The remnant of believing Israel, "according to the election of grace" within the nation of Israel ( Rom. 9:6; 11:5), is recognized as the true "spiritual Israel"
It would have been strange for the apostle Paul, the Jewish believer who wrote Galatians, to refer to Gentile Christians as Israel.
See Part 4.
Thanks for responding, it's been a busy week, sorry for such a late response.
Part 1.
Acts 7:35-38 emphasis is on Moses not the Church. besides this gathering/church is the Nation Israel, Not Christ church "that he would later build mentioned in Matthew 16:18.
Christ have not been crucified yet, so the church couldn't have already been built.
The church was not built on the sacrifices of goats and calves, nor would it be built while the first tabernacle stood.
Church definition.
a calling out that is (concretely) a popular meeting especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both
As you mentioned, In Matthew 16:18 Jesus says upon this rock he will build HIS CHURCH.
So, this rock that Jesus mentions in which he will build his Church, is a rock of offence and a stumbling block to the Jews, so this gathering "The Church " is not the gathering in the wilderness.
GIGI
Galatians 3:29. Is not talking about any promises back to the land here on earth. It's not a Kingdom verse at all. It's about a contrast between Salvation by faith and the works of the Law. That's not a land promises!
Theme; Galatians 3:1-2.
Vs 14) That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Also, Hebrews 11 is a chapter about faith!
The new Jerusalem comes down from heaven "After" The Millennium kingdom here on Earth. Revelation 21:1-2.
Revelation 20:7. And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
See Part 2.
The Chruch is the true Israel of God and heirs to God's promises to Abraham
Galatians 3:29 'And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.'
Galatians 6"15-16 'For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and the mercy, and upon the Israel of God.'
All who are in Christ through faith, as Abraham was, are the seed that receive the promise of God to Abraham, the inheritance Abraham looked forward to, the heavenly Jerusalem. Hebrews 11:10.
The promise of the physical land to Abraham and the Israelites was a shadow pointing to the heavenly land of promise, the New heavens and new earth of eternal life with Jesus. The land of Israel was described as flowing with milk and honey, the New Jerusalem is described as flowing with living waters and fruit from the tree of life continually. Both figurative language for the abundant blessings of life in abundance from God for those who are of the faith of Abraham.