25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
These verses at first glance seem to contradict the idea of the Grace of God. A basic argument that holds some water here is that the Spirit of God didn't work at it does today ( John 16:8) with a permanent indwelling as this and other verses promise.
We could also look at such instances as King Hezekiah in 2 Kings 20:6 who apparently had a righteous life and God heard his prayer to continue 15 more years. One good study is with Saul's foolishness which ended with an early death after he saught wisdom from the witch of Endor in 1 Samuel 28. We see other wicked kings as well have a shortened life; perhaps also Solomon. Of course we all die physically; and some would argue the soul dies also only the spirit goes on to eternity. I would add the solution is in verse 31 of Ezekiel 18 which mentions getting a new heart and spirit. This only comes through the Lord ( Ezekiel 36:26-27). Without this we can superficially ask forgiveness every time an outward sin is found; but this doesn't make us able to do good because of man's sin nature; and ignores sins of omission as well as one's we aren't aware of. It also shows how we shouldn't boast how long we haven't sinned as some foolishly proclaim; ignoring warnings in 1 John about the fact that we are a liar if we claim we have no sin. God's children are corrected even through their sin in the sanctification process.
I hope even though you may not agree, you can make sense of my replies. I would like to tell you I do not Have anything in common with JW or their translation of the bible.
My understanding we are mortal beings and no part of us is immortal. I see the spirit as our breath/life that goes back to God when we die, Ecclesiastes 11:7 and Scripture tell us the soul can die, Ezekiel 18:4Matthew 10:28 Hebrew 9:27. Like Paul said of David being dead in the tomb and has not ascended to heaven, Acts 2:34. We do not put on immortality until the resurrection, 1 Corinthians 15:53-54.
Bear with me my Greek is kindergarten level, arche the beginning or origin I see it maybe a little differently I understand God the Father as the Creator as in Genesis 1:1 and Psalm 19:1. I believe in the plan of God Jesus was first and as in Romans 4:17 Jesus was in Gods eyes in the womb of Mary and then the angels and all the counsel of heaven then the earth and all that was to be.
In Genesis 17:5 when God renamed Abram to Abraham God said, "for the father of many nations I have made thee". It was not Abraham will become a father of many nations it was already done in the plan of God.
"Firstborn of every creature and the firstborn from the dead" Jesus was the firstborn, Jesus being the first in God's plan would make Him the firstborn, and Jesus is the firstborn of the dead. There were people brought back from the dead like in 2 Kings 13:21 the guy was thrown into Elisha's tomb and when his body touched Elisha's bone he came back to life and stood up, and we see the ones in the New Testament. No one who died before Jesus who came back to life died again Jesus was the first to overcome death.
Jesus is the firstborn of the dead because He had no sin and death could not hold Him and when Jesus rose He rose in a glorified body never to die again, Revelation 1:18. That is what we look forward to when we are resurrected.
Part Seven: Making the scripture applicable to us.
I do not practice what you call a prophetic gift. Nonetheless, when warning others of the admonitions of the Bible warning of implications and results of sins I usually feel that I have good enough foresight to be reasonably assured that results the Lord warns of will start to manifest in time. Following the principle of 2 Timothy 3:16 we find that exhortation along with teaching and the other things promised in that verse demonstrate multiple aplications of the same scripture (in this case the same verse).
In the example of Jesus warning Peter of a fall; He specifically knew (as God) the exact verbage that Peter would use and that he would deny Christ not once but three times. We certainly know that we can trust God as to the result eventually of any sin is death ( Ezekiel 18:20); and that certain sins lead to a given result (pride comes before a fall such as mentioned in Proverbs 16:18 which is said to be exactly half way through the Proverbs in terms of how the verses are organized in scripture).
Lust after women leads to adultery in one's heart ( Matt. 5:28). Such behaviors of course likely lead to actual adultery and the result for the unrepentant leads to hell ( Prov. 7:27).
It should be common sense that we need to heed OURSELVES to a love of the law of the Lord such as Psalm 119 covers in detail because we are saved from such an awful fate ourselves. We should always fear God (something uncommon today in "churchianity"). (see 2 Corinthains 5:11). Others don't need a pious litany of our virtues; but we need to be examples of God's people in a wicked and perverse generation (see Matthew 16:4-12 as well as the Epistles on the subject).
Another important point is that we must be doers of the Word not just proclaimers (see book of James). Studying the Word and not obeying was brought up already. We need a proper balance of evangelism and quiet times as well as time to rest.
I understand in delays in replies many work and have family responsibilities. This subject is being discussed by several people and I just wanted to share a few points of my understanding on it. The questions were not directed towards you, you can reply to them if you want but they were some of the questions I wrote down when I was studying this subject because some Scriptures seem to support both understandings if not deeply studied, not saying you have not.
Scripture tells us God is love, 1 John 4:8,16 and we have been told God does not have pleasure in the death of the wicked, Ezekiel 33:11 caries us to John 3:16 God does not want us to perish. The Bible tells us the soul that sinneth will die, Ezekiel 18:4 God preserves the souls of the saints Psalms 97:10 the faith and belief in Jesus by the grace of God can save our soul Hebrews 10:39.
Scripture tells us of various degrees of punishment like in Luke 12:46-48Revelation 21:8. In Genesis 2:7 man became a living soul/being, my understanding is the breath of God is the spirit of life which goes back to God when we die whether lost or saved and this body becomes a dead soul that sleeps in the dust until resurrection then the judgment Revelation 20.
To repeat, eternal life is our promise it is something we do not have, only by faith and belief in Jesus Christ by the grace of God we will receive this gift when we are resurrected not before. If we say our souls are immortal, we are saying we already have eternal life, and it is just where are we going to spend it?
My understanding is the lost and wicked punishment is eternal forever, not the punishing, Satan and the fallen angels the beast and false profit will be tormented day and night for ever and ever as we see in Revelation 20:10, but they are not mortal beings like we are, and we see in Matthew 25:41 it was originally prepared for them.
The RIGHTEOUS dead are raised at the FIRST resurrection to eternal life. The UNRIGHTEOUSNESS dead are raised at the SECOND resurrection. They will face the judgement seat of Christ and then they will die eternally. Their soul will die.
Below, verse 24 emphasizes that 'once saved, always saved' is a dangerous lie. How many children were saved in Sunday school and assume, as adults ,they are saved. But, they don't give one thought to God as an adult and they do not pursue sanctification in their life. Anyway, the following scripture is from Ezekiel:
"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
But, if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes and do that which is right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? Saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
But when the righteous turn away from his righteousness, and committed iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All his righteousness that he has done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he has trespassed, and in his sin that he has sinned, in them shall he die." Ezekiel 18:20-24
Yes , scripture states that salvation can be lost.
See Ezekiel 18:21-32.
However, the lost won't be eternally conscious in hell. God says they will surely die. Cease to exist. It's too hard to explain in a couple paragraphs. But, eternal life is only the reward of the righteous.
Also, when people die, they fall asleep until judgement day. We have an object lesson in our nightly sleep. Suddenly, it's morning. The idea of grandma watching over us from heaven is a satanic ploy. It makes room for seances, praying to dead saints, spiritism. Any dead relative appearing to a living relative is a demon impersonating the relative.
See James 4:4, "Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God"
So Jesus refers to people who keep walking in faith. But not quite as Jesus expects them to do.
Secondly, those foolish virgins DO have oil in their lamps, just like the wise ones, but just not adequate. The oil usually represents the Holly Spirit, but I would say it represents a complete christian life where the Spirit has the primar role. The thing is though that being baptized in the Spirit is not enough, one has to be filled with the Spirit, and this doesn't occur on its own. One has to do that while praying etc. Those virgins were careless, they didn't take care to fill themselves with the Spirit. Did they turn to other things instead? Wordly things? They thought that there was time until Jesus comes so they postponed everything for the future? No, they were not waiting for Jesus. And they got up by surprise. Their light was blinking which means that sin often entered their lives. And when the light got off completely they were left out in the darkness of a sinful life. And they were left out.
Actually this is the purpose that Jesus said that parable, to warn us to always be ready for His coming. If those 5 unwise virgins were unbelievers what was the purpose that Jesus said that story? 5 believers go to Heaven and 5 unbelievers go to hell. So what, a new story? We know that. What is the warning in such a case since we all enter heaven?
Jim, the wage of sin is death, nomatter if one is a christian or not, it still remains death.
Ezekiel 18:24,
But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
Recently; I was given a survey by a pro life organization which asked me about various issues. I stated that all lives; whether born children; elderly or those in the womb should be valued. We clearly live in a suicidal culture where anything of value has been cheapened; and the value of a traditional marriage seems to have been removed as a serious concept. We face challenges from those who would terminate the life of the elderly with "assisted suicide" not just for unbearable pain but for those with various psychological issues. We see unborn life to be considered "parasites" by those in the trending values of society. No doubt the cheap thrills of drugs and the trivialization of the value of life through violent anime has blurred reality from fiction and allowed youth to have less restraint on taking another life to justify their "manifesto" or just in robbing someone of a few dollars.
In the scripture; we know that God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked ( Ezekiel 18:23). He judges according to His standards. Deutoronomy 30:19 encourages us to choose life and that benefits our descendants as well (loosely translated). It also gives a choice for cursings or blessings. Joshua 24:15 states to choose who you will serve and later in the verse states "as for me and my house we will serve the Lord."
More homes need this as their standard. Children clearly need care to a certain age; but there are times when unacceptable behavior and disrespect for authority may force the issue and they need to be removed until repentant. The fear of the Lord needs to be something along with respect that obviously is missing in many homes today. Proper firmness is needed and we need to show as parents that if we love God we obey His commandments. ( John 15:10; 1 John 2:3). Proper love means discipline; we cannot follow permissiveness as Proverbs 13:24 states; there are verses that say the soul is saved ( Prov. 19:18) with discipline.
Further discussion on children and destruction in scriptures
God has no joy in the destruction of the wicked. ( Ezekiel 18:23; 33:11). So He also; by default would have none in the death of the innocent.
Continuing on the theme of such calls for death of everyone; we cannot ignore the child sacrifice that was so prevalent in the nations surrounding Israel. Thus; it is certainly plausable that these children would have died a far worse and more tortuous death if they had been allowed to live in that manner. It is also possible that God has chosen to save some who He knew otherwise would take up Pagan customs themselves and more innocent life should they be allowed to live to adulthood. Such postulations are hardly satisfactory or certainly not enjoyable as some sort of curiousity or mystery. These hard verses cannot always be ignored either; even if we cannot understand; we trust God has some plan or purpose for it; just has He does for famines; wars; disease; etc that take innocent lives every day.
We can gain some wisdom when we look at God's chastisements of Israel itself such as in Lamentations. Such evils were worse as described in that book for those who endured the famine; ate their own children; etc then dying in battle ( Lamentations 4:9).
Warnings of curses and horrible results are spelled out in Deuteronomy; and we need to see the progress in a society as it breaks down (just look around today). The Prophet Jeremiah known as the "weeping prophet" as well as others were in great anguish seeing visions of the destruction to come.
We also need to look at situations such as with Rahab. (Joshua chapter 2). Proper respect and fear of God along with proper action with God's people was able to procure favor in the coming invasion; for her and her entire immediate family. She also later was an important part of the descendants of Israel. This shows repentance and along with others in scripture; a decision to become one of God's people.
I know your question was to Brother Ronald, but I also believe the soul is mortal, the soul is just your body.
You also contradicted yourself in your comment.
You ask Brother Ronald how he could believe your soul IS NOT immortal.
Yet latter in your comment you said: I certainly agree if someone dies unsaved, both their body and soul die and they cease to have conscience existence.
IMMORTALITY cannot DIE.
Ezekiel 18:4 ... the soul that sinneth, IT (the soul) SHALL DIE ....
James 1:15 illustrates the process of sin leading eventually to death. Thus; Adam began to die in all ways once he sinned; spiritually immediately as Ezekiel 18:20 indicates it affects the soul and the death in the body continues until eventually we return back to the dust we came from. Hence; there was immediate estrangement from God when Adam and Eve hid; and God pronounced the resulting curse in childbirth; tilling the earth is sweat with thistles and thorns; etc.
We must also understand that there are those predestined to be in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world ( Ephesians 1:3-6). The opposite is true for the unregenerate as seen in Revelation 17:8. Christ's death was therefore part of a plan from before Creation where all those would hear His voice who were His sheep ( John 10:27). We must remember that His death was effective from what happened in time and space 2000 years ago. It also is retroactive; as it were in order to allow those who were of old to eventually in time and space have access to heaven (see Romans 6:9). Therefore; at the Rapture ( 1 Thess. 4:15) shall involve the Resurrection of all souls of deceased saints; followed by bodily ascension of those alive and remaining. There are some verses which seem to indicate O.T. saints may arise later on in say the Midpoint of the Tribulation or near the end; there is some debate on that question. Some already apparently were resurrected ( Matt. 27:52-56). This would have been a gleaning of the firstfruits; so to speak.
My point here is predestination and the fact that God initiates repentance ( Acts 11:18); etc. There is such a thing as godly repentance and worldly ( 2 Cor. 7:10); illustrated by that of Peter and Judas Iscariot. Genuine repentance brings life and brings sorrow at offending a Holy God; worldly sorrow only is interested in consequences of our actions; and in Judas' case he only recognized Christ as having "innocent blood"; not as God's Son to be worshipped.
All the saints (elders) in the old testament died a physical death; because Christ, the promised SEED had not yet COME to give ALL immortal life by his resurrection.
Ezekiel 18:4 .... the SOUL that sinneth it shall DIE .....the soul goes to the grave .....
The promise in both the Old and New Testament has always been the promise of eternal live, destroying the enemy of man, DEATH.
Hebrews 11:39 And these all (the saints in the Old testament), having obtained a good report through faith (believing in the coming messiah to deliver them from death), RECEIVED NOT THE PROMISE.
Hebrews 11:40 For God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect (resurrected with Christ, Christ ONLY is perfect and hath immortality dwelling in the light .... 1 Timothy 6:16)
Matthew 27:52-53
All creation was given immortality at the same time: when Christ was resurrected; Christ only was resurrected, creating a NEW CREATION.
Revelation 21:5 ... Behold, I MAKE ALL THINGS NEW ....
2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in CHRIST (Christ ONLY was resurrected), he is a NEW creature: old things have passed away, Behold, all things have become NEW.
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow (God foreknew all creation), he did also PREDESTINATE (by Christ resurrection) to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the FIRSTBORN (Christ ONLY arose) of many brethren (CHRISTians).
Today in Sunday school; the discussion came up about finishing the race well and the verse 1 Corinthians 11:1 or another to that affect was pondered. One participant stated that she would like that to be true for her and her children and grandchildren on imitating the example set forth. Further delving into the matter of those with integrity in scripture (there are many) brought up the examples of Isaiah and Jeremiah the "weeping" prophet. I thought of Jeremiah in Lamentations and the parallel to Christ in the New Testament weeping over Jerusalem in Matthew 23:37. We need to balance the hard truths such as the excoriation of the Pharisees and the prophets warnings to Israel and the collateral damage inevitably to result with the fact that when calamity did strike the Prophets would mourn and suffer; understanding God's own sentiments toward such things. That is brought out quite effectively with Hosea and the judgments to come on Ephriam such as in chapter 11 verse 8. In fact; in the prophet's personal life with his unfaithful wife he had to purchase again as well as with eventual reconciliation with Israel mentioned in earlier chapters we see past what many consider an unloving Old Testament God with one who doesn't have any joy in the destruction of the wicked ( Ezekiel 18:23).
In this discussion of the "goodness and severity of God" ( Romans 11:22) we can apply these principles to the discipling efforts that elders are commissioned to be part of along with the rest of the congregation. Open rebuke is better than hidden love ( Proverbs 27:5). There is too much laxity in such matters today from my vantage point. Let's be honest; we are more likely to take a rebuke to heart than some meaningless compliment and retain such in our memory. That can be true for something said in an insensitive manner; but most times we can at least apply some truth from the Word in our lives and respect the messenger.
"12Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus."
Paul now uses other words to say the same thing as in Corinthians. To forget what he has achieved so far and move forward for the price. Why forget what he has done so far? Because they can not guarentee his future. There is still a lot of distance for him to run and the past does not mean anything. It is his future result that counts, not the past. He says clearly in v 12-13 that he is not certain of the result. Does he feel that his salvation is secured? To me, no he doesn't. But he is the apostle of the gentiles, selected by God Himself before the world was created, he performed unimaginary miracles. Yes but all that do not mean anything if he doesn't finish his life victoriously.
The past can not guarantee the future. In Ezekiel 18:24-26 says,
"24But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die. 25...26When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die."
Reading the above carefully makes clear that nothing is secured. If the rightous turns from his course into a sinful life and dies in it then he will die spiritually too. His rightouness he has done in his previous life will be ignored.
The eternal nature of God is more or less comprehended by the souls of men ( Ecclesiastes 3:1). This is further bolstered by passages in Romans 1 about the Godhead revealed as well as a Creator of the universe (see also Psalm 19). God in the beginning established man in the environment of His choosing with the authority over all living creatures and with the assignment to till the ground. He also made Eve to be a suitable companion and as long as man remained obedient under the condition of not eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil they would have lived forever in a state of innocence. Of course we know what happened; man broke the one rule and hence the warnings came to pass with the death of the soul (immediate) and the body (over time). Such terms could be said to be part of a covenant; or agreement.
I believe it is helpful to look at our Christian lives this way as well. John 6:37 and a plethora of other verses make it clear that before time God chose some to come to faith and for the Son to be revealed to them. This was part of a covenant; in some sense with the Godhead where the Son was obedient to the Father's plan for redemption. Again; this is an unwritten sort of understanding; perhaps this mystery involves some of the unrevealed things in Deut. 29:29 in the secret councils of heaven.
Scripture appears to have a number of records; a book of all the living ( Psalm 69:28) as all souls are His ( Ezekiel 18:4). There is also the Book of Life as mentioned in Revelation several times as well as a book of remembrance in Malachi 3:16 for a remnant or subsection of believers meeting these conditions. As far as the term covenant is concerned; we see that promise on God's end with the rainbow after the flood where He promises no more worldwide flood. Up until this point these were things that affected all of mankind but later things were for the set apart who would eventually make up national Israel.
King David was called a man after GOD's heart, GOD loved & honored King David even after his adultery & muderous cover-up, attempt. 2Samuel 11, 1Kings 11:4, Acts 13:22,
Psalms 38, Psalms 40, Psalms 51, David sought after GOD
However, David didn't get away with anything, without consequences: 2Samuel 12, because of the severity of his sin as stated by Nathan in 2Samuel 12, the "sword did not depart" from his house._._
The punishment for adultery Old Testament was death 2Samuel 12:13, but GOD spared David's life
GOD doesn't take delight in death but that everyone should turn from unrighteousness! Ezekiel 33:11, Ezekiel 18:32, 1John 1:9,
As I likely posted earlier there are certain limits to understanding God's counsel as stated in Deut. 29:29. There is a point such as with Pharaoh where God Himself hardens a man's heart once he has irrevocably hardened his own heart; that is something in His foreknowledge that God determines for every man who is unsaved. We as believers have been "grafted in" ( Romans 11:11-25). The scripture makes it clear that man has no excuse as we see evidence in the Creation and of the Godhead ( Psalm 19; Romans 1). We are "fearfully and wonderfully made" ( Psalm 139:14) and therefore human life is sacred. Or; as the Declaration of Independence states "we hold these truths to be self-evident".
God is a God of Covenants and as He states "all the souls are mine" ( Ezekiel 18:4). This whole chapter I have found as an excellent rebuttal and witness to the Jewish community who occasionally insists on doing a "Mizpah" when they find out one side of my family is Jewish. It states in the same passage that the "soul who sins will die" thus removing any parental privilege in being of any physical descent as well as making all individuals responsible for their behaviors. We need to see here that someone can turn from wickedness to righteousness; and the opposite is true. Ultimately; I would say that Ephesians 4:30 makes it clear that we don't lose our salvation IF truly saved. There are many tares mixed in with the wheat however. Again; that is part of God's plan; as well as using Satan to refine us through temptations and persecutions. Since God created everyone then we are all to be eternal beings in our spirit.
Also as Jesus pointed out to Thomas "blessed are those who haven't seen and yet believed" ( John 20:29). Just look at the Tribulation where; by the way Revelation 13:8 shows Predestination for all those NOT in the Book of Life. Just as in the time Christ was here the first time seeing ISN'T necessarily belief TO SALVATION. REV6:17
Predestination part 2 (in regard to eternal life or death specifically).
If we look into the whole issue of God predestining some for heaven and others for hell; we often refer to the term "double predestination". We need to keep in mind the verses such as hell was created for the Devil and his angels ( Matt. 25:41) and that God is not a respecter of men ( Romans 2:11 etc) as well as the fact that He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked. ( Ezekiel 18:23). As I stated recently; there IS rejoicing among the Godhead as well as God's people when the wicked are judged; as the earth is purged from corruption.
In regard then to the destruction of the wicked; it is because of sin that is not sought to be forgiven and that through the METHOD God has given; namely through the substitutionary atonement of the Son. Many remain stuck on that point as those of the true "Grace Gospel" expose when they still think they have some merit on righteousness of their own. Only the 100 percent wicked need a 100 percent Savior; it is an all or nothing proposition. We need to realize that Satan is the father of all those who are outside the faith. ( John 8:44). Someone may accept their own sin but try telling them that fact; or worse that is the fate of family members who are or were not believers and have passed. This is a serious concern among those who remember their relatives as they were; and if they saw them in torment it would hardly give them a nostalgic feeling. Realizing that apart from Christ we are only thinking of ourselves ultimately as our motivation isn't fun. Also realizing that putting SELF on the throne is exactly what Satan does to lureus as he himself has that mindset then we are quite humbled. These aren't fun things to ponder but it certainly does get our mind off all the chaos in this world; important as some issues are compared to the eternal fate of sinners.
I am not sure how the divisions of the Psalms relate to the Pentateuch but I heard they were in five sections. At any rate; this begins the first one that is NOT written by David. The sons of Korah were descendants of those destroyed in the rebellion by God therefore were grateful to have a place (see 1 Chronicles 9:19 for their place as doorkeepers in the House of God).
The first two verses echo the popular song "As the deer panteth for the water". The rest of the Psalm seems to contain a desire to appear before God (v. 3); and considering Him in a dispersed situation (v. 6). It seems like a diaspora; although the details are missing. The Psalmist (or multiple "sons" of Korah) seem to be taunted by the enemies as to where God is in verse 3 and 10. The author(s) of the Psalm also ask themselves and cry out to God the same plea in verses 5 and 9.
The last verse of the Psalm shows how praising God raises the condition of the soul from all sorts of despair. This is good to remember whether it is in suffering the perishing of the old body in 2 Cor. 4:16; facing martyrdom ( Philippians 1:21); or just the stresses of everyday life. Thankfully; as God states emphatically in Ezekiel 18:20. The sons are not to bear the guilt for their father's sins. This also; of course shows us that just because our parents may be a Pastor that we are not specially privileged in any way. Matthew 23:15 gives that principle to the Pharisees; whose physical descendancy from Abraham didn't give them any spiritual value without true faith. Praise the Lord for His grace toward the sons of Korah who didn't rebel.
Psalm 139:8 shows that God is everywhere; including in what was the abode of the dead; Sheol. Think for a minute what this implies. When we see what can only be taken as a literal story of Lazarus and the rich man we see two individuals clearly in a different state in the afterlife. In fact; the rich man is still there and will be until the Great White Throne Judgment.
The souls of the righteous; however are now present with the Lord ( Ephesians 4:8; 2 Cor. 5:6).
No longer are those who die in the Lord held captive by the Devil from the presence of God ( Hebrews 2:14-15). Only the rightous will actually see God; Psalm 11:6-7 illustrate this along with the fate of the wicked in hell in great detail. Even this life; in fact shows how one can be dead in trespasses and sins yet physically alive ( Ephesians 2:1). This will be the eternal state for the wicked in the lake of fire.
Our human minds cannot conceive how God does not change; and how He can be a God of mercy and grace yet render eternal judgment on the unregenerate; also those whose souls God created ( Ezekiel 18:4). Nonetheless; that verse illustrates how a father and son and blood relations are not relevant for determining the salvation of an individual. We see that in the book of Joshua with Gideon that God is for those who are on his side; whatever we percieve in our reality as the right or wrong sides. God brings good to those who love Him ( Romans 8:28). It is according to HIS PURPOSE that these things occur; the same holds true for the wicked as God has no joy in the death of the wicked ( Ezekiel 18:23) but grace is only available for repentance in THIS LIFE according to His terms.
Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
When you Created something and own it, and it's a soul living breathing, you want its Love and praise you, not rebel against you and love and praise someone else.
There is a cross reference with Matthew 21:16 in verse 2 of this Psalm. This surely outwitted the wisdom of man with the Pharisees. This verse would seem to indicate that all children are in the Book of Life until the age of accountability; perhaps by default being in the book of all the living. Ezekiel 18:20 states that the soul who sins will die; and children will not bear blame for parents sins. We are all born into a sin nature; but not all living long enough to understand the meaning of it. Jesus also stated that "unless you are converted and come to me as a little children you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." This involves the following of those who are drawn (such as the immediate response of the first disciples when Christ said "follow me.") This involves TRUST for Christ to provide all needs; so we can realize that He who takes care of the birds of the air will take care of us ( Matthew 6:26).
The animals with the rest of God's creation are mentioned in verses 6-8 here; and man's dominion a little lower than angels (v. 5) yet ruling over the animals and the earth (v.6) gives him a special place.
There are many cares in this world; some of which we are responsible for such as elderly parents; wives/husbands and children. We are to provide for our needs by working. Ultimately; all things are for the Kingdom of God. It is interesting in light of the ministry Christ and the Apostles had through the 1st Century; and how they would preach the Gospel first; and whether lodging in a private house; through the dangers of the sea; or in a jail cell from time to time God preserved them. We see those such as in Phillipians 2:27 who almost worked themselves to death. Clearly; death was the normal end of their lives (except for John who they say survived being boiled in oil according to tradition). Such a focus on looking on Christ and not on this world; and dying to self surely is something to ponder in this nation today.
This is the first of a number of "impreccatory" Psalms. The conundrum in the minds of some today is that desiring our enemies to be destroyed somehow is contradicting the N.T. sayings of Christ to "love our enemies". We should see; however that in the GENERAL case of the fate of the wicked such sentiments (if I can use that word) toward the Pharisees were; shall we say not exactly "politially correct" at best; and led to most if not all of the TEN attempts on the life of Christ before the crucifixion. We should look at it in terms of the final fate of the unredeemed as Revelation states in chapter 21; verse 27 nothing "unclean" enters the holy city. This is fairly close to the reaction toward those in hell as seen at the end of Isaiah 66.
God surely gets no "pleasure in the death of the wicked". ( Ezekiel 18:32). To understand David correctly we must see it as the Holy Spirit and inspired scripture; although there were those enemies of his that he wanted to see eliminated. It wasn't for the sake of a personal vendetta; as can be seen by his patience with the "anointed of the Lord" ( 1 Samuel 24:6). Even when his own sin took Saul; David mourned over his death. We can look at Judas Iscariot and the prophecy ( Psalm 41:9). This was a man deliberately chosen and called who was predestined to be the son of perdition. Nonetheless; giving him the sop was said to be something honoring a person right before Satan entered him and he went off to betray him. (see John 13:29). Loving our enemies therefore is personal; whereas our attitude toward destruction is impersonal. Only God can make the personal judgment; and tdhat is impartial.
Therefore; the general message is the blessing of rightous (verse 11 and 12) and the destruction of the wicked because of their sins making them deserving of such a fate.
Ezekiel 18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions; whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a NEW heart and a NEW spirit: for WHY WILL YE DIE, O house of Israel?
This QUESTION has to be ANSWERED: so we will ONLY DIE ONCE, and that DEATH happens while we stand on our own two feet.
Revelation 21:5 .....I make ALL THINGS NEW ....
So there will be a NEW MT. OLIVE: that is in NEW Jerusalem, a city made of LIVING stones, and a NEW temple therein.
This NEW PLACE, where God DWELLS is YOU.
Hebrews 9:27 For it is appointed to man ONCE TO DIE; but after this the JUDGEMENT.
Remember, ALL things have been made NEW.
Christ has BUILT a NEW HOUSE.
Hebrews 3:4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that build (ready done) ALL THINGS is God.
Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over HIS OWN HOUSE, whose HOUSE WE ARE ...the NEW house of God, where God dwells.
What is this NEW judgement.
1 Peter 4:17 FOR THE TIME IS COME (Christ second coming, as the Holy Ghost, to LIVE is his NEW house: YOU) that JUDGEMENT must begin at the (NEW) house of GOD.
Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once OFFERED (in the flesh) to bear the sins of many (first coming); and unto them who LOOK FOR HIM (the thief in the night) he shall APPEAR the SECOND TIME (second coming, like a thief in the night) without sin UNTO SALVATION.
This house, our body, already has someone; the spirit of deception, that old serpent the devil, living in it; so that inhabitant has to DIE to make way for the NEW:
Colossians 1:27 ...this mystery ...Christ in you ...
Matthew 12:28 But if I (the NEW man, Christ IN YOU) by the SPIRIT of GOD (TRUTH) cast out (kill, destroy) devils (the spirit of lies and deception, that live in MY HOUSE) then the Kingdom of God HAS COME TO YOU.
Remember ALL THINGS have been made NEW, but you CANNOT see them with eyes of flesh.
25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
These verses at first glance seem to contradict the idea of the Grace of God. A basic argument that holds some water here is that the Spirit of God didn't work at it does today ( John 16:8) with a permanent indwelling as this and other verses promise.
We could also look at such instances as King Hezekiah in 2 Kings 20:6 who apparently had a righteous life and God heard his prayer to continue 15 more years. One good study is with Saul's foolishness which ended with an early death after he saught wisdom from the witch of Endor in 1 Samuel 28. We see other wicked kings as well have a shortened life; perhaps also Solomon. Of course we all die physically; and some would argue the soul dies also only the spirit goes on to eternity. I would add the solution is in verse 31 of Ezekiel 18 which mentions getting a new heart and spirit. This only comes through the Lord ( Ezekiel 36:26-27). Without this we can superficially ask forgiveness every time an outward sin is found; but this doesn't make us able to do good because of man's sin nature; and ignores sins of omission as well as one's we aren't aware of. It also shows how we shouldn't boast how long we haven't sinned as some foolishly proclaim; ignoring warnings in 1 John about the fact that we are a liar if we claim we have no sin. God's children are corrected even through their sin in the sanctification process.
Part 3
I hope even though you may not agree, you can make sense of my replies. I would like to tell you I do not Have anything in common with JW or their translation of the bible.
My understanding we are mortal beings and no part of us is immortal. I see the spirit as our breath/life that goes back to God when we die, Ecclesiastes 11:7 and Scripture tell us the soul can die, Ezekiel 18:4 Matthew 10:28 Hebrew 9:27. Like Paul said of David being dead in the tomb and has not ascended to heaven, Acts 2:34. We do not put on immortality until the resurrection, 1 Corinthians 15:53-54.
Bear with me my Greek is kindergarten level, arche the beginning or origin I see it maybe a little differently I understand God the Father as the Creator as in Genesis 1:1 and Psalm 19:1. I believe in the plan of God Jesus was first and as in Romans 4:17 Jesus was in Gods eyes in the womb of Mary and then the angels and all the counsel of heaven then the earth and all that was to be.
In Genesis 17:5 when God renamed Abram to Abraham God said, "for the father of many nations I have made thee". It was not Abraham will become a father of many nations it was already done in the plan of God.
"Firstborn of every creature and the firstborn from the dead" Jesus was the firstborn, Jesus being the first in God's plan would make Him the firstborn, and Jesus is the firstborn of the dead. There were people brought back from the dead like in 2 Kings 13:21 the guy was thrown into Elisha's tomb and when his body touched Elisha's bone he came back to life and stood up, and we see the ones in the New Testament. No one who died before Jesus who came back to life died again Jesus was the first to overcome death.
Jesus is the firstborn of the dead because He had no sin and death could not hold Him and when Jesus rose He rose in a glorified body never to die again, Revelation 1:18. That is what we look forward to when we are resurrected.
See part 4 sorry I am slow.
I do not practice what you call a prophetic gift. Nonetheless, when warning others of the admonitions of the Bible warning of implications and results of sins I usually feel that I have good enough foresight to be reasonably assured that results the Lord warns of will start to manifest in time. Following the principle of 2 Timothy 3:16 we find that exhortation along with teaching and the other things promised in that verse demonstrate multiple aplications of the same scripture (in this case the same verse).
In the example of Jesus warning Peter of a fall; He specifically knew (as God) the exact verbage that Peter would use and that he would deny Christ not once but three times. We certainly know that we can trust God as to the result eventually of any sin is death ( Ezekiel 18:20); and that certain sins lead to a given result (pride comes before a fall such as mentioned in Proverbs 16:18 which is said to be exactly half way through the Proverbs in terms of how the verses are organized in scripture).
Lust after women leads to adultery in one's heart ( Matt. 5:28). Such behaviors of course likely lead to actual adultery and the result for the unrepentant leads to hell ( Prov. 7:27).
It should be common sense that we need to heed OURSELVES to a love of the law of the Lord such as Psalm 119 covers in detail because we are saved from such an awful fate ourselves. We should always fear God (something uncommon today in "churchianity"). (see 2 Corinthains 5:11). Others don't need a pious litany of our virtues; but we need to be examples of God's people in a wicked and perverse generation (see Matthew 16:4-12 as well as the Epistles on the subject).
Another important point is that we must be doers of the Word not just proclaimers (see book of James). Studying the Word and not obeying was brought up already. We need a proper balance of evangelism and quiet times as well as time to rest.
Agape. RP
When I repent and confess my sins to HIM, HE is faithful and just to forgive me, and cleanse me from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9
When I walk in the Spirit; it will keep me from sin. Galatians 5:16
Thank YOU LORD JESUS for the joy of serving YOU.
Merry Christmas to all, and a prosperous New Year.
GOD to shine HIS blessed face on all who read, pray, and follow HIS precepts and commandments.
December 21, 2023
I understand in delays in replies many work and have family responsibilities. This subject is being discussed by several people and I just wanted to share a few points of my understanding on it. The questions were not directed towards you, you can reply to them if you want but they were some of the questions I wrote down when I was studying this subject because some Scriptures seem to support both understandings if not deeply studied, not saying you have not.
Scripture tells us God is love, 1 John 4:8,16 and we have been told God does not have pleasure in the death of the wicked, Ezekiel 33:11 caries us to John 3:16 God does not want us to perish. The Bible tells us the soul that sinneth will die, Ezekiel 18:4 God preserves the souls of the saints Psalms 97:10 the faith and belief in Jesus by the grace of God can save our soul Hebrews 10:39.
Scripture tells us of various degrees of punishment like in Luke 12:46-48 Revelation 21:8. In Genesis 2:7 man became a living soul/being, my understanding is the breath of God is the spirit of life which goes back to God when we die whether lost or saved and this body becomes a dead soul that sleeps in the dust until resurrection then the judgment Revelation 20.
To repeat, eternal life is our promise it is something we do not have, only by faith and belief in Jesus Christ by the grace of God we will receive this gift when we are resurrected not before. If we say our souls are immortal, we are saying we already have eternal life, and it is just where are we going to spend it?
My understanding is the lost and wicked punishment is eternal forever, not the punishing, Satan and the fallen angels the beast and false profit will be tormented day and night for ever and ever as we see in Revelation 20:10, but they are not mortal beings like we are, and we see in Matthew 25:41 it was originally prepared for them.
Just my understanding of Scripture thanks again.
God bless,
RLW
The RIGHTEOUS dead are raised at the FIRST resurrection to eternal life. The UNRIGHTEOUSNESS dead are raised at the SECOND resurrection. They will face the judgement seat of Christ and then they will die eternally. Their soul will die.
Below, verse 24 emphasizes that 'once saved, always saved' is a dangerous lie. How many children were saved in Sunday school and assume, as adults ,they are saved. But, they don't give one thought to God as an adult and they do not pursue sanctification in their life. Anyway, the following scripture is from Ezekiel:
"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
But, if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes and do that which is right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? Saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
But when the righteous turn away from his righteousness, and committed iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All his righteousness that he has done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he has trespassed, and in his sin that he has sinned, in them shall he die." Ezekiel 18:20-24
See Ezekiel 18:21-32.
However, the lost won't be eternally conscious in hell. God says they will surely die. Cease to exist. It's too hard to explain in a couple paragraphs. But, eternal life is only the reward of the righteous.
Also, when people die, they fall asleep until judgement day. We have an object lesson in our nightly sleep. Suddenly, it's morning. The idea of grandma watching over us from heaven is a satanic ploy. It makes room for seances, praying to dead saints, spiritism. Any dead relative appearing to a living relative is a demon impersonating the relative.
See James 4:4, "Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God"
So Jesus refers to people who keep walking in faith. But not quite as Jesus expects them to do.
Secondly, those foolish virgins DO have oil in their lamps, just like the wise ones, but just not adequate. The oil usually represents the Holly Spirit, but I would say it represents a complete christian life where the Spirit has the primar role. The thing is though that being baptized in the Spirit is not enough, one has to be filled with the Spirit, and this doesn't occur on its own. One has to do that while praying etc. Those virgins were careless, they didn't take care to fill themselves with the Spirit. Did they turn to other things instead? Wordly things? They thought that there was time until Jesus comes so they postponed everything for the future? No, they were not waiting for Jesus. And they got up by surprise. Their light was blinking which means that sin often entered their lives. And when the light got off completely they were left out in the darkness of a sinful life. And they were left out.
Actually this is the purpose that Jesus said that parable, to warn us to always be ready for His coming. If those 5 unwise virgins were unbelievers what was the purpose that Jesus said that story? 5 believers go to Heaven and 5 unbelievers go to hell. So what, a new story? We know that. What is the warning in such a case since we all enter heaven?
Jim, the wage of sin is death, nomatter if one is a christian or not, it still remains death.
Ezekiel 18:24,
But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
Recently; I was given a survey by a pro life organization which asked me about various issues. I stated that all lives; whether born children; elderly or those in the womb should be valued. We clearly live in a suicidal culture where anything of value has been cheapened; and the value of a traditional marriage seems to have been removed as a serious concept. We face challenges from those who would terminate the life of the elderly with "assisted suicide" not just for unbearable pain but for those with various psychological issues. We see unborn life to be considered "parasites" by those in the trending values of society. No doubt the cheap thrills of drugs and the trivialization of the value of life through violent anime has blurred reality from fiction and allowed youth to have less restraint on taking another life to justify their "manifesto" or just in robbing someone of a few dollars.
In the scripture; we know that God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked ( Ezekiel 18:23). He judges according to His standards. Deutoronomy 30:19 encourages us to choose life and that benefits our descendants as well (loosely translated). It also gives a choice for cursings or blessings. Joshua 24:15 states to choose who you will serve and later in the verse states "as for me and my house we will serve the Lord."
More homes need this as their standard. Children clearly need care to a certain age; but there are times when unacceptable behavior and disrespect for authority may force the issue and they need to be removed until repentant. The fear of the Lord needs to be something along with respect that obviously is missing in many homes today. Proper firmness is needed and we need to show as parents that if we love God we obey His commandments. ( John 15:10; 1 John 2:3). Proper love means discipline; we cannot follow permissiveness as Proverbs 13:24 states; there are verses that say the soul is saved ( Prov. 19:18) with discipline.
God has no joy in the destruction of the wicked. ( Ezekiel 18:23; 33:11). So He also; by default would have none in the death of the innocent.
Continuing on the theme of such calls for death of everyone; we cannot ignore the child sacrifice that was so prevalent in the nations surrounding Israel. Thus; it is certainly plausable that these children would have died a far worse and more tortuous death if they had been allowed to live in that manner. It is also possible that God has chosen to save some who He knew otherwise would take up Pagan customs themselves and more innocent life should they be allowed to live to adulthood. Such postulations are hardly satisfactory or certainly not enjoyable as some sort of curiousity or mystery. These hard verses cannot always be ignored either; even if we cannot understand; we trust God has some plan or purpose for it; just has He does for famines; wars; disease; etc that take innocent lives every day.
We can gain some wisdom when we look at God's chastisements of Israel itself such as in Lamentations. Such evils were worse as described in that book for those who endured the famine; ate their own children; etc then dying in battle ( Lamentations 4:9).
Warnings of curses and horrible results are spelled out in Deuteronomy; and we need to see the progress in a society as it breaks down (just look around today). The Prophet Jeremiah known as the "weeping prophet" as well as others were in great anguish seeing visions of the destruction to come.
We also need to look at situations such as with Rahab. (Joshua chapter 2). Proper respect and fear of God along with proper action with God's people was able to procure favor in the coming invasion; for her and her entire immediate family. She also later was an important part of the descendants of Israel. This shows repentance and along with others in scripture; a decision to become one of God's people.
Is the soul spirit or flesh?
If it's flesh it's not immortal.
If it's Spirit it does need to be saved, Spirit is God, God is the ONLY one that has IMMORALITY.
Spirit CANNOT sin.
Flesh can sin.
Ezekiel 18:4 ... the soul (flesh) that sinneth, it shall die .....
1 Timothy 6:16 Christ ONLY has immortality ......
So how do you have IMMORALITY when the word says Christ ONLY has IMMORALITY.
Your SOUL DIE with Christ on the cross, ONLY Christ AROSE.
God bless you.
I know your question was to Brother Ronald, but I also believe the soul is mortal, the soul is just your body.
You also contradicted yourself in your comment.
You ask Brother Ronald how he could believe your soul IS NOT immortal.
Yet latter in your comment you said: I certainly agree if someone dies unsaved, both their body and soul die and they cease to have conscience existence.
IMMORTALITY cannot DIE.
Ezekiel 18:4 ... the soul that sinneth, IT (the soul) SHALL DIE ....
If the soul were IMMORTAL it could not DIE.
God bless you
Ezekiel 18:4.... the soul that sinneth, IT shall DIE ......
God bless you
We must also understand that there are those predestined to be in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world ( Ephesians 1:3-6). The opposite is true for the unregenerate as seen in Revelation 17:8. Christ's death was therefore part of a plan from before Creation where all those would hear His voice who were His sheep ( John 10:27). We must remember that His death was effective from what happened in time and space 2000 years ago. It also is retroactive; as it were in order to allow those who were of old to eventually in time and space have access to heaven (see Romans 6:9). Therefore; at the Rapture ( 1 Thess. 4:15) shall involve the Resurrection of all souls of deceased saints; followed by bodily ascension of those alive and remaining. There are some verses which seem to indicate O.T. saints may arise later on in say the Midpoint of the Tribulation or near the end; there is some debate on that question. Some already apparently were resurrected ( Matt. 27:52-56). This would have been a gleaning of the firstfruits; so to speak.
My point here is predestination and the fact that God initiates repentance ( Acts 11:18); etc. There is such a thing as godly repentance and worldly ( 2 Cor. 7:10); illustrated by that of Peter and Judas Iscariot. Genuine repentance brings life and brings sorrow at offending a Holy God; worldly sorrow only is interested in consequences of our actions; and in Judas' case he only recognized Christ as having "innocent blood"; not as God's Son to be worshipped.
All the saints (elders) in the old testament died a physical death; because Christ, the promised SEED had not yet COME to give ALL immortal life by his resurrection.
Ezekiel 18:4 .... the SOUL that sinneth it shall DIE .....the soul goes to the grave .....
The promise in both the Old and New Testament has always been the promise of eternal live, destroying the enemy of man, DEATH.
Hebrews 11:39 And these all (the saints in the Old testament), having obtained a good report through faith (believing in the coming messiah to deliver them from death), RECEIVED NOT THE PROMISE.
Hebrews 11:40 For God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect (resurrected with Christ, Christ ONLY is perfect and hath immortality dwelling in the light .... 1 Timothy 6:16)
Matthew 27:52-53
All creation was given immortality at the same time: when Christ was resurrected; Christ only was resurrected, creating a NEW CREATION.
Revelation 21:5 ... Behold, I MAKE ALL THINGS NEW ....
2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in CHRIST (Christ ONLY was resurrected), he is a NEW creature: old things have passed away, Behold, all things have become NEW.
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow (God foreknew all creation), he did also PREDESTINATE (by Christ resurrection) to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the FIRSTBORN (Christ ONLY arose) of many brethren (CHRISTians).
God bless YOU!
Today in Sunday school; the discussion came up about finishing the race well and the verse 1 Corinthians 11:1 or another to that affect was pondered. One participant stated that she would like that to be true for her and her children and grandchildren on imitating the example set forth. Further delving into the matter of those with integrity in scripture (there are many) brought up the examples of Isaiah and Jeremiah the "weeping" prophet. I thought of Jeremiah in Lamentations and the parallel to Christ in the New Testament weeping over Jerusalem in Matthew 23:37. We need to balance the hard truths such as the excoriation of the Pharisees and the prophets warnings to Israel and the collateral damage inevitably to result with the fact that when calamity did strike the Prophets would mourn and suffer; understanding God's own sentiments toward such things. That is brought out quite effectively with Hosea and the judgments to come on Ephriam such as in chapter 11 verse 8. In fact; in the prophet's personal life with his unfaithful wife he had to purchase again as well as with eventual reconciliation with Israel mentioned in earlier chapters we see past what many consider an unloving Old Testament God with one who doesn't have any joy in the destruction of the wicked ( Ezekiel 18:23).
In this discussion of the "goodness and severity of God" ( Romans 11:22) we can apply these principles to the discipling efforts that elders are commissioned to be part of along with the rest of the congregation. Open rebuke is better than hidden love ( Proverbs 27:5). There is too much laxity in such matters today from my vantage point. Let's be honest; we are more likely to take a rebuke to heart than some meaningless compliment and retain such in our memory. That can be true for something said in an insensitive manner; but most times we can at least apply some truth from the Word in our lives and respect the messenger.
Richard
In Philippians 3:12-14 Paul writes,
"12Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus."
Paul now uses other words to say the same thing as in Corinthians. To forget what he has achieved so far and move forward for the price. Why forget what he has done so far? Because they can not guarentee his future. There is still a lot of distance for him to run and the past does not mean anything. It is his future result that counts, not the past. He says clearly in v 12-13 that he is not certain of the result. Does he feel that his salvation is secured? To me, no he doesn't. But he is the apostle of the gentiles, selected by God Himself before the world was created, he performed unimaginary miracles. Yes but all that do not mean anything if he doesn't finish his life victoriously.
The past can not guarantee the future. In Ezekiel 18:24-26 says,
"24But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die. 25...26When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die."
Reading the above carefully makes clear that nothing is secured. If the rightous turns from his course into a sinful life and dies in it then he will die spiritually too. His rightouness he has done in his previous life will be ignored.
The eternal nature of God is more or less comprehended by the souls of men ( Ecclesiastes 3:1). This is further bolstered by passages in Romans 1 about the Godhead revealed as well as a Creator of the universe (see also Psalm 19). God in the beginning established man in the environment of His choosing with the authority over all living creatures and with the assignment to till the ground. He also made Eve to be a suitable companion and as long as man remained obedient under the condition of not eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil they would have lived forever in a state of innocence. Of course we know what happened; man broke the one rule and hence the warnings came to pass with the death of the soul (immediate) and the body (over time). Such terms could be said to be part of a covenant; or agreement.
I believe it is helpful to look at our Christian lives this way as well. John 6:37 and a plethora of other verses make it clear that before time God chose some to come to faith and for the Son to be revealed to them. This was part of a covenant; in some sense with the Godhead where the Son was obedient to the Father's plan for redemption. Again; this is an unwritten sort of understanding; perhaps this mystery involves some of the unrevealed things in Deut. 29:29 in the secret councils of heaven.
Scripture appears to have a number of records; a book of all the living ( Psalm 69:28) as all souls are His ( Ezekiel 18:4). There is also the Book of Life as mentioned in Revelation several times as well as a book of remembrance in Malachi 3:16 for a remnant or subsection of believers meeting these conditions. As far as the term covenant is concerned; we see that promise on God's end with the rainbow after the flood where He promises no more worldwide flood. Up until this point these were things that affected all of mankind but later things were for the set apart who would eventually make up national Israel.
Psalms 38, Psalms 40, Psalms 51, David sought after GOD
However, David didn't get away with anything, without consequences: 2Samuel 12, because of the severity of his sin as stated by Nathan in 2Samuel 12, the "sword did not depart" from his house._._
The punishment for adultery Old Testament was death 2Samuel 12:13, but GOD spared David's life
GOD doesn't take delight in death but that everyone should turn from unrighteousness! Ezekiel 33:11, Ezekiel 18:32, 1John 1:9,
Malachi 2:13-16, Proverbs 5,
Hopefully these are helpful
As I likely posted earlier there are certain limits to understanding God's counsel as stated in Deut. 29:29. There is a point such as with Pharaoh where God Himself hardens a man's heart once he has irrevocably hardened his own heart; that is something in His foreknowledge that God determines for every man who is unsaved. We as believers have been "grafted in" ( Romans 11:11-25). The scripture makes it clear that man has no excuse as we see evidence in the Creation and of the Godhead ( Psalm 19; Romans 1). We are "fearfully and wonderfully made" ( Psalm 139:14) and therefore human life is sacred. Or; as the Declaration of Independence states "we hold these truths to be self-evident".
God is a God of Covenants and as He states "all the souls are mine" ( Ezekiel 18:4). This whole chapter I have found as an excellent rebuttal and witness to the Jewish community who occasionally insists on doing a "Mizpah" when they find out one side of my family is Jewish. It states in the same passage that the "soul who sins will die" thus removing any parental privilege in being of any physical descent as well as making all individuals responsible for their behaviors. We need to see here that someone can turn from wickedness to righteousness; and the opposite is true. Ultimately; I would say that Ephesians 4:30 makes it clear that we don't lose our salvation IF truly saved. There are many tares mixed in with the wheat however. Again; that is part of God's plan; as well as using Satan to refine us through temptations and persecutions. Since God created everyone then we are all to be eternal beings in our spirit.
Also as Jesus pointed out to Thomas "blessed are those who haven't seen and yet believed" ( John 20:29). Just look at the Tribulation where; by the way Revelation 13:8 shows Predestination for all those NOT in the Book of Life. Just as in the time Christ was here the first time seeing ISN'T necessarily belief TO SALVATION. REV6:17
If we look into the whole issue of God predestining some for heaven and others for hell; we often refer to the term "double predestination". We need to keep in mind the verses such as hell was created for the Devil and his angels ( Matt. 25:41) and that God is not a respecter of men ( Romans 2:11 etc) as well as the fact that He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked. ( Ezekiel 18:23). As I stated recently; there IS rejoicing among the Godhead as well as God's people when the wicked are judged; as the earth is purged from corruption.
In regard then to the destruction of the wicked; it is because of sin that is not sought to be forgiven and that through the METHOD God has given; namely through the substitutionary atonement of the Son. Many remain stuck on that point as those of the true "Grace Gospel" expose when they still think they have some merit on righteousness of their own. Only the 100 percent wicked need a 100 percent Savior; it is an all or nothing proposition. We need to realize that Satan is the father of all those who are outside the faith. ( John 8:44). Someone may accept their own sin but try telling them that fact; or worse that is the fate of family members who are or were not believers and have passed. This is a serious concern among those who remember their relatives as they were; and if they saw them in torment it would hardly give them a nostalgic feeling. Realizing that apart from Christ we are only thinking of ourselves ultimately as our motivation isn't fun. Also realizing that putting SELF on the throne is exactly what Satan does to lureus as he himself has that mindset then we are quite humbled. These aren't fun things to ponder but it certainly does get our mind off all the chaos in this world; important as some issues are compared to the eternal fate of sinners.
I am not sure how the divisions of the Psalms relate to the Pentateuch but I heard they were in five sections. At any rate; this begins the first one that is NOT written by David. The sons of Korah were descendants of those destroyed in the rebellion by God therefore were grateful to have a place (see 1 Chronicles 9:19 for their place as doorkeepers in the House of God).
The first two verses echo the popular song "As the deer panteth for the water". The rest of the Psalm seems to contain a desire to appear before God (v. 3); and considering Him in a dispersed situation (v. 6). It seems like a diaspora; although the details are missing. The Psalmist (or multiple "sons" of Korah) seem to be taunted by the enemies as to where God is in verse 3 and 10. The author(s) of the Psalm also ask themselves and cry out to God the same plea in verses 5 and 9.
The last verse of the Psalm shows how praising God raises the condition of the soul from all sorts of despair. This is good to remember whether it is in suffering the perishing of the old body in 2 Cor. 4:16; facing martyrdom ( Philippians 1:21); or just the stresses of everyday life. Thankfully; as God states emphatically in Ezekiel 18:20. The sons are not to bear the guilt for their father's sins. This also; of course shows us that just because our parents may be a Pastor that we are not specially privileged in any way. Matthew 23:15 gives that principle to the Pharisees; whose physical descendancy from Abraham didn't give them any spiritual value without true faith. Praise the Lord for His grace toward the sons of Korah who didn't rebel.
Psalm 139:8 shows that God is everywhere; including in what was the abode of the dead; Sheol. Think for a minute what this implies. When we see what can only be taken as a literal story of Lazarus and the rich man we see two individuals clearly in a different state in the afterlife. In fact; the rich man is still there and will be until the Great White Throne Judgment.
The souls of the righteous; however are now present with the Lord ( Ephesians 4:8; 2 Cor. 5:6).
No longer are those who die in the Lord held captive by the Devil from the presence of God ( Hebrews 2:14-15). Only the rightous will actually see God; Psalm 11:6-7 illustrate this along with the fate of the wicked in hell in great detail. Even this life; in fact shows how one can be dead in trespasses and sins yet physically alive ( Ephesians 2:1). This will be the eternal state for the wicked in the lake of fire.
Our human minds cannot conceive how God does not change; and how He can be a God of mercy and grace yet render eternal judgment on the unregenerate; also those whose souls God created ( Ezekiel 18:4). Nonetheless; that verse illustrates how a father and son and blood relations are not relevant for determining the salvation of an individual. We see that in the book of Joshua with Gideon that God is for those who are on his side; whatever we percieve in our reality as the right or wrong sides. God brings good to those who love Him ( Romans 8:28). It is according to HIS PURPOSE that these things occur; the same holds true for the wicked as God has no joy in the death of the wicked ( Ezekiel 18:23) but grace is only available for repentance in THIS LIFE according to His terms.
When you Created something and own it, and it's a soul living breathing, you want its Love and praise you, not rebel against you and love and praise someone else.
It hurts when your children smite you.
Genesis 5:24, Hebrews 11:5, 1Samuel 15:35, Job 10:21,22, Job 34:22, Job 38:17, Revelation 2:7, Luke 23:33-43, Luke 16:19-31, Psalms 6:5, Psalms 48:14, Psalms 49:14, Ecclesiastes 8:8, Isaiah 38:18, Romans 7, 2Corinthians 7:10,
Psalms 56:13, Psalms 89:48, Proverbs 10:2, Proverbs 14:27, Ecclesiastes 9:4,
Psalms 116:15, Proverbs 14:32, Isaiah 9:2, Isaiah 25:8, Hosea 13:14, Luke 18:33, John 8:51, John 5:24, Acts 2:24-27, Romans 5:10-21, Romans 6:2-23, Romans 8, 2Timothy 1:10, 1John 3:14,
Jeremiah 21:8, Ezekiel 18:31,32, 1Corinthians 15:20-58, Revelation 1:18,
Hebrews 2:9-18, Revelation 20, Revelation 21,
There is a cross reference with Matthew 21:16 in verse 2 of this Psalm. This surely outwitted the wisdom of man with the Pharisees. This verse would seem to indicate that all children are in the Book of Life until the age of accountability; perhaps by default being in the book of all the living. Ezekiel 18:20 states that the soul who sins will die; and children will not bear blame for parents sins. We are all born into a sin nature; but not all living long enough to understand the meaning of it. Jesus also stated that "unless you are converted and come to me as a little children you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." This involves the following of those who are drawn (such as the immediate response of the first disciples when Christ said "follow me.") This involves TRUST for Christ to provide all needs; so we can realize that He who takes care of the birds of the air will take care of us ( Matthew 6:26).
The animals with the rest of God's creation are mentioned in verses 6-8 here; and man's dominion a little lower than angels (v. 5) yet ruling over the animals and the earth (v.6) gives him a special place.
There are many cares in this world; some of which we are responsible for such as elderly parents; wives/husbands and children. We are to provide for our needs by working. Ultimately; all things are for the Kingdom of God. It is interesting in light of the ministry Christ and the Apostles had through the 1st Century; and how they would preach the Gospel first; and whether lodging in a private house; through the dangers of the sea; or in a jail cell from time to time God preserved them. We see those such as in Phillipians 2:27 who almost worked themselves to death. Clearly; death was the normal end of their lives (except for John who they say survived being boiled in oil according to tradition). Such a focus on looking on Christ and not on this world; and dying to self surely is something to ponder in this nation today.
God surely gets no "pleasure in the death of the wicked". ( Ezekiel 18:32). To understand David correctly we must see it as the Holy Spirit and inspired scripture; although there were those enemies of his that he wanted to see eliminated. It wasn't for the sake of a personal vendetta; as can be seen by his patience with the "anointed of the Lord" ( 1 Samuel 24:6). Even when his own sin took Saul; David mourned over his death. We can look at Judas Iscariot and the prophecy ( Psalm 41:9). This was a man deliberately chosen and called who was predestined to be the son of perdition. Nonetheless; giving him the sop was said to be something honoring a person right before Satan entered him and he went off to betray him. (see John 13:29). Loving our enemies therefore is personal; whereas our attitude toward destruction is impersonal. Only God can make the personal judgment; and tdhat is impartial.
Therefore; the general message is the blessing of rightous (verse 11 and 12) and the destruction of the wicked because of their sins making them deserving of such a fate.
Luke 16:19-31, Matthew 25:31-46, Ezekiel 18:4-32, Luke 20:36-38, Hebrews 9:27-28, James 5:20, 1John 3:14,
John 11:25,26, Romans 8:13, Romans 8, Romans 14:8, 1Corinthians 15:22, 1Corinthians 15,
Revelation 14:12,13, Revelation 2:10,11, Revelation 20:6,13,14, Revelation 21, Revelation 22,
Hebrews 11:5,
Hopefully these are helpful
They are the same; BUT,
Christ spoke other words ALSO:
And ALL CHRIST'S Words will COME TO PASS.
Ezekiel 18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions; whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a NEW heart and a NEW spirit: for WHY WILL YE DIE, O house of Israel?
This QUESTION has to be ANSWERED: so we will ONLY DIE ONCE, and that DEATH happens while we stand on our own two feet.
Revelation 21:5 .....I make ALL THINGS NEW ....
So there will be a NEW MT. OLIVE: that is in NEW Jerusalem, a city made of LIVING stones, and a NEW temple therein.
This NEW PLACE, where God DWELLS is YOU.
Hebrews 9:27 For it is appointed to man ONCE TO DIE; but after this the JUDGEMENT.
Remember, ALL things have been made NEW.
Christ has BUILT a NEW HOUSE.
Hebrews 3:4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that build (ready done) ALL THINGS is God.
Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over HIS OWN HOUSE, whose HOUSE WE ARE ...the NEW house of God, where God dwells.
What is this NEW judgement.
1 Peter 4:17 FOR THE TIME IS COME (Christ second coming, as the Holy Ghost, to LIVE is his NEW house: YOU) that JUDGEMENT must begin at the (NEW) house of GOD.
Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once OFFERED (in the flesh) to bear the sins of many (first coming); and unto them who LOOK FOR HIM (the thief in the night) he shall APPEAR the SECOND TIME (second coming, like a thief in the night) without sin UNTO SALVATION.
This house, our body, already has someone; the spirit of deception, that old serpent the devil, living in it; so that inhabitant has to DIE to make way for the NEW:
Colossians 1:27 ...this mystery ...Christ in you ...
Matthew 12:28 But if I (the NEW man, Christ IN YOU) by the SPIRIT of GOD (TRUTH) cast out (kill, destroy) devils (the spirit of lies and deception, that live in MY HOUSE) then the Kingdom of God HAS COME TO YOU.
Remember ALL THINGS have been made NEW, but you CANNOT see them with eyes of flesh.
God Bless YOU, the body of Christ