Argument #4 Holiness. Touching on this subject in the last post; we see this as an expected behavior after repentance; and full immersion baptism. Since the issue of baptism isn't unique to those of oneness persuasion as a necessity for salvation; I will not get into it here except to say that Acts 2:38 could be interpreted differently if we say REPENT and be baptised FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS. This would place the emphasis of the remission on the repentance. As to holiness I would say that it MUST occur at some point in a believer's life as evidence of spiritual FRUIT. But as I believe I stated earlier (if it wasn't wiped out) is that holiness is a result of a changed heart ( Exodus 36:26). If we are holy we should show love; longsuffering and other evidences of saving faith; not have a prideful or boastful attitude because we are (or think we are) saved. I would argue that there is a good point about the churches in general being very lax in dress and other worldly behaviors being allowed so that they are often indistinguishable from the world. As to the behavior of marriage and divorce that Mr. Jennings has I actually agree with that; although in many other congregations of Pentecostals and certainly charismatics it seems there is much illegitimate divorce and remarriage when a spouse is still alive. Another issue I won't elaborate on further is the speaking in tongues which is considered NECESSARY for salvation despite scriptures to the contrary such as 1 Corinthians 12:30 which I probably referenced already.
For now I feel I have given a sufficient overview of this subject. I certainly am not lauding Calvin's approach to martyring Silvanius for being a modalist (or non Trinitarian); I can't say matter of factly someone is not a true believer in this camp but have serious concerns on these and other issues. We can't understand much even with scripture on these mysteries of God.
Glad you mentioned about the Cherubim. Seems kind of odd that they could make these images but not images of YHWH. But I guess God only wanted them to make images He says to make. The cherubim must have been very beautiful and majestic. They certainly indicated that the mercy seat was a holy place and also looked down on it, as if being watchful. guarding it, or, perhaps, inquiring of what God's mercy is ( 1 Peter 1:12).
There were also Cherubim embroidered on the curtains.
Makes me remember that God placed a fiery Cherub with a flaming sword to guard the Gateway into the Garden of Eden. They
have their purposes to fulfill.
Maybe God wanted the Israelites to be mindful that there is a whole spiritual realm full of powerful beings that either work for God or against Him. But these are not to be worshipped. Perhaps having these images of cherubim was also a test by God to see if they will succumb to idolatry again like they had with the golden calf.
I appreciate your input and am glad to hear more from you. Have a blessed evening, Richard.
Since you have such more detailed commentary than I perhaps it won't help much on what little I have to say. The best analogy I can give is the detailed depiction of the Cherubim; each one facing each other on either side of the mercy seat. There was; to the best of my knowledge only descriptions of faces that appear as man; eagle; lion and one other. The representation emphasizes the holiness and yet doesn't diminish the significance of such powerful praise before the throne by these creations given high authority.
Much of the same could be said about God and/or Christ. There is nothing wrong with the precious jewels and all the other majestic glories of heaven; but the holiness of God when taken away after the fall of Lucifer took the meaningful communion away; much like the original glory of Adam in the garden can never come back; but for His people we are made into His likeness and image by being adopted sons. A simple explanation also is that any artwork becomes an idolatrous object of worship; just as images of Christ do. They vary; of course in appearance in different cultures.
We have; of course symbology as I know you are aware with the O.T. Temple and Christ. The significance throughout each dispensation is obeying God's way of doing things; hence each procedure is to be carefully followed. Sacrifices could never do what Christ did to ultimately remove sin; but they were able to preserve us until the time and space when He was able to provide the atonement. Another way to put it is that Christ's body being marred worse than any man; bleeding and dying for us is a beautiful thing because it secured our redemption. There is really no good way to represent it without it being an offense because Christ was victorious rising from the dead a few days later. Yet we must in our souls remember this atonement securing us as adopted sons.
Thankfully; in heaven we can enjoy such splendour without ever being covetous; or proud or doing any sin
This Chapter describes the curtains, siding boards, and roof of the tabernacle and tent of meeting as was described in previous chapters. Bezalel and Aholiab were specifically chosen by God, not men, to oversee and direct the work done for this place of meeting with YHWH. They were talented, naturally, but then given even more talent by God for this undertaking. Same is true of others who gladly submitted their talents to the work God asked them to do. It seems that the whole of Israel were very eager to give and to work on this project. Perhaps with God prohibiting them from making any image of Him to represent Him the Israelites were pleased to have something tangible to connect to YHWH. Whether or not this was thought as idolatry is unknown, but it may have made it seem like YHWH was more "real" to them in having a dwelling place for His Presence to reside with them.
God is Spirit, in His essential nature, is not tangible, not made of matter, not corporeal . Throughout all of time, mankind has tried over and over again to represent God in ways they can see and touch. The concept of an invisible, transcendent, God is almost beyond our ability to apprehend. And, in the flesh we cannot apprehend God in truth. Mankind always ends up with an idol of some sort. But with the help of the Holy Spirit, the knowledge of God is given to us spiritually, because we are made spiritually alive and able to commune with Him as believers.
It seems in that the Israelites gave to this work overflowingly. The leaders needed to tell them to stop bringing any more materials because they had enough to complete the projects and have plenty left over. So, they stopped the giving and got to work completing the tasks they each were given to do. This hilarious giving was impressive.
I wonder, since God did not wish to have any image of Himself made by Israelites why He designed such a rich and elaborate tabernacle and its furnishings. Who did this satisfy?
19 And he made a covering for the tent of rams' skins dyed red, and a covering of badgers' skins above that. Why was the top badgers skin? Because badgers skin shed water.
Irene123 Beezaleel and Aholiab was probably taught by others. No one paints a master piece the first time they paint a painting. God did give special gifts to us though.
Christ Magnified Glorifying Jesus on Exodus 36 - 6 years ago
End of day 27 Bible in a Year Reading. God is so patient with His people. When we choose not to follow Him; He is there calling us back and ready to give us something to do that allows us to express our obedience and gratitude by use of "talent" or "treasury". These "children" learned their crafts, trades and arts as slaves for pharaoh, but they were fully demonstrated here for God's purpose.
To disciple - If you will re-read my comment on Beezaleel and Aholiab you 'may' see that I was only - 'musing' and that it had nothing to do with anything important - such as - salvation. People will read things in a flash and not 'think; about it first.
Irene, Have you ever seen someone who was truly gifted in one thing or another? The Lord made them that way! Like when He told Moses, that He knew Aaron his brother could speak well; God makes us all the way He makes us! Not only Beezaleel and Aholiab; but all the others, "whose spirits stirred them up" to come do the work; God gave them all understanding and skill to do every aspect of the work.
Beezaleel and Aholiab; I wonder if they were born with their knowledge or did God endow them with it - miraculously? It doesn't matter; their and all our knowledge comes from God. But - we have put forth an effort by staying in school, listening to our parents; the Lord helps those who help themselves.
OUR GOD IS A GREAT GOD. HE APPOINTED AND CALLED BY NAME WHOM SHOULD WORK AT HIS SUNCTAURY AND BEAZALEE AND OHOLIAB DID OBEY HIS VOICE. AS BELIVERS WE HAVE TO OBEY HIS VOICE FOR HE IS OUR MAKER.
OUR GOD IS A GREAT GOD. HE APPOINTED AND CALLED BY NAME WHOM SHOULD WORK AT HIS SUNCTAURY AND BEAZALEE AND OHOLIAB DID OBEY HIS VOICE. AS BELIVERS WE HAVE TO OBEY HIS VOICE FOR HE IS OUR MAKER.
OUR GOD IS A GREAT GOD. HE APPOINTED AND CALLED BY NAME WHOM SHOULD WORK AT HIS SUNCTAURY AND BEAZALEE AND OHOLIAB DID OBEY HIS VOICE. AS BELIVERS WE HAVE TO OBEY HIS VOICE FOR HE IS OUR MAKER.
OUR GOD IS A GREAT GOD. HE APPOINTED AND CALLED BY NAME WHOM SHOULD WORK AT HIS SUNCTAURY AND BEAZALEE AND OHOLIAB DID OBEY HIS VOICE. AS BELIVERS WE HAVE TO OBEY HIS VOICE FOR HE IS OUR MAKER.
Argument #4 Holiness. Touching on this subject in the last post; we see this as an expected behavior after repentance; and full immersion baptism. Since the issue of baptism isn't unique to those of oneness persuasion as a necessity for salvation; I will not get into it here except to say that Acts 2:38 could be interpreted differently if we say REPENT and be baptised FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS. This would place the emphasis of the remission on the repentance. As to holiness I would say that it MUST occur at some point in a believer's life as evidence of spiritual FRUIT. But as I believe I stated earlier (if it wasn't wiped out) is that holiness is a result of a changed heart ( Exodus 36:26). If we are holy we should show love; longsuffering and other evidences of saving faith; not have a prideful or boastful attitude because we are (or think we are) saved. I would argue that there is a good point about the churches in general being very lax in dress and other worldly behaviors being allowed so that they are often indistinguishable from the world. As to the behavior of marriage and divorce that Mr. Jennings has I actually agree with that; although in many other congregations of Pentecostals and certainly charismatics it seems there is much illegitimate divorce and remarriage when a spouse is still alive. Another issue I won't elaborate on further is the speaking in tongues which is considered NECESSARY for salvation despite scriptures to the contrary such as 1 Corinthians 12:30 which I probably referenced already.
For now I feel I have given a sufficient overview of this subject. I certainly am not lauding Calvin's approach to martyring Silvanius for being a modalist (or non Trinitarian); I can't say matter of factly someone is not a true believer in this camp but have serious concerns on these and other issues. We can't understand much even with scripture on these mysteries of God.
Let us be Bereans.
Agape. Rich P
Glad you mentioned about the Cherubim. Seems kind of odd that they could make these images but not images of YHWH. But I guess God only wanted them to make images He says to make. The cherubim must have been very beautiful and majestic. They certainly indicated that the mercy seat was a holy place and also looked down on it, as if being watchful. guarding it, or, perhaps, inquiring of what God's mercy is ( 1 Peter 1:12).
There were also Cherubim embroidered on the curtains.
Makes me remember that God placed a fiery Cherub with a flaming sword to guard the Gateway into the Garden of Eden. They
have their purposes to fulfill.
Maybe God wanted the Israelites to be mindful that there is a whole spiritual realm full of powerful beings that either work for God or against Him. But these are not to be worshipped. Perhaps having these images of cherubim was also a test by God to see if they will succumb to idolatry again like they had with the golden calf.
I appreciate your input and am glad to hear more from you. Have a blessed evening, Richard.
Much of the same could be said about God and/or Christ. There is nothing wrong with the precious jewels and all the other majestic glories of heaven; but the holiness of God when taken away after the fall of Lucifer took the meaningful communion away; much like the original glory of Adam in the garden can never come back; but for His people we are made into His likeness and image by being adopted sons. A simple explanation also is that any artwork becomes an idolatrous object of worship; just as images of Christ do. They vary; of course in appearance in different cultures.
We have; of course symbology as I know you are aware with the O.T. Temple and Christ. The significance throughout each dispensation is obeying God's way of doing things; hence each procedure is to be carefully followed. Sacrifices could never do what Christ did to ultimately remove sin; but they were able to preserve us until the time and space when He was able to provide the atonement. Another way to put it is that Christ's body being marred worse than any man; bleeding and dying for us is a beautiful thing because it secured our redemption. There is really no good way to represent it without it being an offense because Christ was victorious rising from the dead a few days later. Yet we must in our souls remember this atonement securing us as adopted sons.
Thankfully; in heaven we can enjoy such splendour without ever being covetous; or proud or doing any sin
This Chapter describes the curtains, siding boards, and roof of the tabernacle and tent of meeting as was described in previous chapters. Bezalel and Aholiab were specifically chosen by God, not men, to oversee and direct the work done for this place of meeting with YHWH. They were talented, naturally, but then given even more talent by God for this undertaking. Same is true of others who gladly submitted their talents to the work God asked them to do. It seems that the whole of Israel were very eager to give and to work on this project. Perhaps with God prohibiting them from making any image of Him to represent Him the Israelites were pleased to have something tangible to connect to YHWH. Whether or not this was thought as idolatry is unknown, but it may have made it seem like YHWH was more "real" to them in having a dwelling place for His Presence to reside with them.
God is Spirit, in His essential nature, is not tangible, not made of matter, not corporeal . Throughout all of time, mankind has tried over and over again to represent God in ways they can see and touch. The concept of an invisible, transcendent, God is almost beyond our ability to apprehend. And, in the flesh we cannot apprehend God in truth. Mankind always ends up with an idol of some sort. But with the help of the Holy Spirit, the knowledge of God is given to us spiritually, because we are made spiritually alive and able to commune with Him as believers.
It seems in that the Israelites gave to this work overflowingly. The leaders needed to tell them to stop bringing any more materials because they had enough to complete the projects and have plenty left over. So, they stopped the giving and got to work completing the tasks they each were given to do. This hilarious giving was impressive.
I wonder, since God did not wish to have any image of Himself made by Israelites why He designed such a rich and elaborate tabernacle and its furnishings. Who did this satisfy?
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