Thank YOU FATHER for the wisdom YOU show in all that YOU do. Appreciate everyone and their input.
GOD be praised and magnified as we are able to go before HIM in the blood of the LORD JESUS CHRIST, and wisdom of HIS word, and guidance of HIS HOLY SPIRIT.
Apologies for the delay in responding to your question, KD7IVS.
We see these names, Urim & Thummim mentioned in various passages (e.g. Exodus 28:30, Leviticus 8:8, Numbers 27:21). Not much is known about them (there is even ignorance & debate amongst the Jews about this), except that they were likely stones (maybe precious stones) that were placed in the Jewish high priest's "breastplate of judgement"; sometimes referred to as the "breastplate of decision". Within that breastplate were also the names of the 12 tribes of Israel, so it appears that there might be a connection there, where the high priest used these stones to determine God's Will in certain situations concerning Israel.
How God chose to guide the priest to a correct judgement/decision is not told us: whether by the appearance of Light (Urim) or Perfections or declaration of Truth (Thummim). In 1 Samuel 28:6 which you referred to, we read of King Saul making enquiry of the LORD, but the LORD did not speak to him, whether by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by the prophets. This then seems to be some of the ways that God revealed His Word to His people, and these stones, Urim & Thummin, were used by the High Priest to learn the answer from God for the people.
In this chapter God directs Moses in how to make the priestly garments of Aaron, the High Priest for the Israelites, and his sons, who were priests. Again, the instructions are very exacting and the garments contained intricacies. The garments were for beauty and honor for the high priest. I think of Jesus being clothed in majesty and power to whom all glory and honor and praise is given in worship. I think of how it is said that God wraps Himself in light and splendor. Certainly the High Priest would stand out among the people as very special and necessary for their relationship with YHWH. Jesus, too, stands out among all humans as absolutely special (incomparable worth) and is necessary for any human in one's relationship with God.
I looked up a few of the words that I did not recognize:
ouches were like buttons for fastening
mitre is a twisted length of linen that is wound around the head-like a turbin
girdle is like a sash or belt of linen
ephod is two pieces of cloth joined at the shoulders with the onyx stones fastened to the other piece.
the gold piece for the forehead was a type of crown and it said "Holiness to the Lord"
habergeon-a vestment of chain metal for protection and so that the ephod cannot be rent.
I think that there is probably much symbolism represented in the High Priest garments to represent our Lord Jesus.
What stands out to me is that these garments most likely represent Jesus' purity-fine linen; heavenly existence prior to the incarnation and after the ascension-blue in the cloth; His deity-gold in the cloth; His sovereign as King of King-purple in the cloth; and His Messiahship for Israel-scarlet in the cloth.
The preciousness of those Whom the Father gave to Jesus (believers) in the stones on the breastplate over the High Priest's heart.
The absolute Holiness of Jesus as being set apart from before the creation of the world to be our Savior to reconcile us back to the Father in the golden plate (crown).
Another priesthood established after 400+ yrs of captivity of Israel in Egypt. Established in Exodus 28:1, described & defined & detailed in; Exodus 28, Ex. 29, Ex. 30, Ex. 31, Ex. 35, Ex. 38, Ex. 39, Ex. 40, Leviticus 1, note the Name, Aaron being in the Levi lineage= Exodus 2:1, Numbers 26:59, if you want to study the laws of the Priesthood all the chapters of Leviticus, I recommend.
Numbers 3:1-45, clarified who was allowed to be in the Priesthood. Note: Numbers 3:32, Numbers 4, breaks down duties of each family, within that tribe, separated by GOD specifically, Numbers 3:12-13, Numbers 3:41, Deuteronomy also describe the duties. This continued through the book of Joshua. King David & king Solomon, re-established the Levitical Priests; 1Chronicles 6:10, then again at the return of the Babylonian captivity re-established by Ezra, Nehemiah, Haggai, & all Israel that returned.
Therefore by these recorded accounts it appears the priesthood that existed during the moment your referring to in Mark 15, were traditional heirs of the priesthood as established, in Exodus. Respected & upheld by Jesus himself= Matthew 8:4, Mark 1:44, Luke 5:14,
Please read Isaiah 53, Zechariah 13:6, John 18:35,
Interestingly in: Luke 1:5, Luke 2, Hebrews 5, Hebrews 6, Jesus Our High Priest.
They swayed Pilate, Matthew 27:24, Mark 15:15, Luke 23:4-23, John 19:8-15, yet GOD ordained it & Christ allowed it, John 10:17,
I find it useful to read & study many Books of the Bible to answer my questions within one part of another Book.
Hopefully these are helpful & fully answer your questions
Just recently GOD revealed somethings even deeper about that moment. I'm glad you're discussing so I can share it. In Leviticus 12, Leviticus 15:19-33, Leviticus 21:3, I think it's amazing Jesus called her "daughter" making her faith the (close kinship) also: Luke 8:43-48, Matthew 9:20-22, Galatians 3:26,
Also understanding that her touching him could have had the uncleanness, if He were not the High Priest that makes atonement. Hebrews 2:17, Hebrews 4:14,15,
Hebrews 5:5-10, Hebrews 6:20, Hebrews 7:11, even though; Luke 1, shows His family was of that bloodline, Luke 1:5-37,
Also notable Jesus garment was without seams as the Priestly garment: John 19:23,24, Exodus 28:32, Exodus 29:23, 1Samuel 2:18,19,
Luke 1:5,6, Zachariahs a priest & Elizabeth daughter of Aaron, walking in "all the commandments & ordinances of the LORD & blameless." Exodus 28:1, books of Leviticus, Luke 1:8-10, Luke 1:13, It was this John. Luke 1:13-17, (Read again Luke 1, awesome revelation :)
Then knowing John the son "of priests, blameless " would declare such a thing is Powerful, maybe that's why the "teachers of the law" were so._._. Matthew 3:1-17, Mark 1:1-11, John 1:1-34,
I thought it interesting that Jesus being related to the Priest was significant Luke 1:36,41,43,
Luke 1:48 Mary likewise with Elizabeth (& John lept for joy) felt not worthy even before Jesus birth.
The Ephod, as described in Exodus 39 & other places, was an outer linen, short garment that the priests wore in their service in the Tabernacle. It was first to be worn by the High Priest ( Exodus 28:4: Aaron & his sons) & then later, worn by other priests ( 1 Samuel 22:18). However, we also see the Ephod being worn by King David ( 2 Samuel 6:14) & by Samuel ( 1 Samuel 2:18). Because of the intricacies of the garment (especially for the High Priest), it seems that the wearer of it came before God in representation of the people & a requirement to be able to conduct such ministry. The Urim & Thummim (special lots that were cast before God to ascertain His Will & Direction for the people) were held in pouches in the Ephod.
As well, there was instances of idolatry associated with the Ephod ( Judges 8:27, 17:5,6), as it was considered so holy as to be worshipped. Even today, in some 'high Churches', priests can be seen wearing distinctive outer clothing, with sashes & mitre resembling the priests of old. These are not the garments depicted in the New Testament as should be worn by Christians & are a poor reflection & understanding of biblical norms, rather serving to ascribe some sort of special privilege & holiness to the wearer.
Today, for the Christian, we might say that we come before God "in robes of righteousness", not of ourselves, but that given to us by virtue of Christ's death & what it accomplished for us. And being so clothed, we can come confidently before God as His children & in prayer. We are now His chosen generation & royal priesthood ( 1 Peter 2:9).
They were for asking God to decide what they should do if they were not sure what to do. Jusuha asked of them when he didn't know to go up against their enemies or not to go up. God would answer by voice, what to do.
The tabernacle was given to Moses like the design that is in heaven. Wherein, our father resides. All of the design represented his holiness and righteousness. Our father is holy, therefore the service of the tabernacle had to be holy. The precious stones represent the twelve tribes of Israel, who just like Aaron, put them in his side of his heart, our father also has them in his heart.
Christ Magnified Glorifying Jesus on Exodus 28 - 6 years ago
Historically birthstones are said to be tied to the precious stones that are mentioned here. There are 12 stones and 12 months. Many of those that where there "birthstone" may not realize this. It is a point of interest that the world often has no idea of the biblical influences that are woven into lives.
Randy Raglin, those that say that the Old Testament isn 't relevant anymore do not understanding the Scripture neither the Word of God. Gen. 3:15 says, "And I will put enmity between thee-Satan and the serpent-and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed it shall bruise thy head-Jesus Christ resurrection-, and thy shall bruise his head-Jesus Christ crucified. Gal. 3:24 says, "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith ". God bless us all and in the understanding of his Word. Praise Jehovah in the highest through our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Amen!
If we understand how God wanted His Priest to look on the outer garments...then we as Priest and Kings before the Lord must understand how He has commanded us to live inwardly that He may have true fellowship with us.
@Ed, Exodus 20:26, �Neither shalt thou go up by steps unto mine altar, that thy nakedness be not discovered thereon�. You say, �I believe this verse speaks about the building of pyramid shaped temples which were very common at the time, not only in Egypt. Usually the place of worship (altar/temple) was at the top of the structure�. An altar was considered a sacred place, on which an innocent life of an animal was offered to God, symbolizing the ultimate sacrifice of that of �the Lamb of God�, or Jesus, who would take away the sin of the world. The reason for a �step-less� altar is to avoid exposing the nakedness of the person bringing the sacrifice, not necessarily the priests only. However, the Levite Priests had to wear special attire. �And thou shalt make them linen breeches to cover their nakedness; from the loins even unto the thighs they shall reach. And they shall be upon Aaron, and upon his sons, when they come in unto the tabernacle of the congregation, or when they come near unto the altar to minister in the holy place; that they bear not iniquity, and die...�, Exodus 28:42, 43. A typical size altar made of stone would be 36�H X 48� X 48�. The portable altar for the tabernacle was approx. 54�H X 90� X 90�. �And thou shalt make an altar of shittim wood, five cubits long, and five cubits broad; the altar shall be foursquare: and the height thereof shall be three cubits�, Exodus 27:1. The pyramids on the other hand, were huge and built to serve as abode to the Pharaoh in the �afterlife�. So, I don�t quite understand what do pyramids have to do with the altars?
I think what�s important is twofold. It's a square worn over the heart. And it contains the names of all tribes of God's people. Today we, as His priests, are to keep people (others) near our heart. All people, the 4 corners of the earth. Just like the 4 corners of the breastplate. But some say the Old Testament isn't relevant today. Yet Jesus is on every page if you look for Him.
GOD be praised and magnified as we are able to go before HIM in the blood of the LORD JESUS CHRIST, and wisdom of HIS word, and guidance of HIS HOLY SPIRIT.
Amen!
December 27, 2023
We see these names, Urim & Thummim mentioned in various passages (e.g. Exodus 28:30, Leviticus 8:8, Numbers 27:21). Not much is known about them (there is even ignorance & debate amongst the Jews about this), except that they were likely stones (maybe precious stones) that were placed in the Jewish high priest's "breastplate of judgement"; sometimes referred to as the "breastplate of decision". Within that breastplate were also the names of the 12 tribes of Israel, so it appears that there might be a connection there, where the high priest used these stones to determine God's Will in certain situations concerning Israel.
How God chose to guide the priest to a correct judgement/decision is not told us: whether by the appearance of Light (Urim) or Perfections or declaration of Truth (Thummim). In 1 Samuel 28:6 which you referred to, we read of King Saul making enquiry of the LORD, but the LORD did not speak to him, whether by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by the prophets. This then seems to be some of the ways that God revealed His Word to His people, and these stones, Urim & Thummin, were used by the High Priest to learn the answer from God for the people.
In this chapter God directs Moses in how to make the priestly garments of Aaron, the High Priest for the Israelites, and his sons, who were priests. Again, the instructions are very exacting and the garments contained intricacies. The garments were for beauty and honor for the high priest. I think of Jesus being clothed in majesty and power to whom all glory and honor and praise is given in worship. I think of how it is said that God wraps Himself in light and splendor. Certainly the High Priest would stand out among the people as very special and necessary for their relationship with YHWH. Jesus, too, stands out among all humans as absolutely special (incomparable worth) and is necessary for any human in one's relationship with God.
I looked up a few of the words that I did not recognize:
ouches were like buttons for fastening
mitre is a twisted length of linen that is wound around the head-like a turbin
girdle is like a sash or belt of linen
ephod is two pieces of cloth joined at the shoulders with the onyx stones fastened to the other piece.
the gold piece for the forehead was a type of crown and it said "Holiness to the Lord"
habergeon-a vestment of chain metal for protection and so that the ephod cannot be rent.
I think that there is probably much symbolism represented in the High Priest garments to represent our Lord Jesus.
What stands out to me is that these garments most likely represent Jesus' purity-fine linen; heavenly existence prior to the incarnation and after the ascension-blue in the cloth; His deity-gold in the cloth; His sovereign as King of King-purple in the cloth; and His Messiahship for Israel-scarlet in the cloth.
The preciousness of those Whom the Father gave to Jesus (believers) in the stones on the breastplate over the High Priest's heart.
The absolute Holiness of Jesus as being set apart from before the creation of the world to be our Savior to reconcile us back to the Father in the golden plate (crown).
Another priesthood established after 400+ yrs of captivity of Israel in Egypt. Established in Exodus 28:1, described & defined & detailed in; Exodus 28, Ex. 29, Ex. 30, Ex. 31, Ex. 35, Ex. 38, Ex. 39, Ex. 40, Leviticus 1, note the Name, Aaron being in the Levi lineage= Exodus 2:1, Numbers 26:59, if you want to study the laws of the Priesthood all the chapters of Leviticus, I recommend.
Numbers 3:1-45, clarified who was allowed to be in the Priesthood. Note: Numbers 3:32, Numbers 4, breaks down duties of each family, within that tribe, separated by GOD specifically, Numbers 3:12-13, Numbers 3:41, Deuteronomy also describe the duties. This continued through the book of Joshua. King David & king Solomon, re-established the Levitical Priests; 1Chronicles 6:10, then again at the return of the Babylonian captivity re-established by Ezra, Nehemiah, Haggai, & all Israel that returned.
Therefore by these recorded accounts it appears the priesthood that existed during the moment your referring to in Mark 15, were traditional heirs of the priesthood as established, in Exodus. Respected & upheld by Jesus himself= Matthew 8:4, Mark 1:44, Luke 5:14,
Please read Isaiah 53, Zechariah 13:6, John 18:35,
Interestingly in: Luke 1:5, Luke 2, Hebrews 5, Hebrews 6, Jesus Our High Priest.
They swayed Pilate, Matthew 27:24, Mark 15:15, Luke 23:4-23, John 19:8-15, yet GOD ordained it & Christ allowed it, John 10:17,
I find it useful to read & study many Books of the Bible to answer my questions within one part of another Book.
Hopefully these are helpful & fully answer your questions
1John 4:1-20,
Genesis 41:8, Genesis 45:27, Exodus 6:9, Exodus 28:3, Exodus 35:12, Numbers 14:24, Deuteronomy 2:30, Deuteronomy 34:9, Joshua 5:1, Proverbs 18:14, Ezekiel 1:20, Romans 8:14-16, Haggi 1:14,
Isaiah 11:2,
Leviticus 20:27, Numbers 5:14,30,
Numbers 11:17,25,
Judges 9:23,
Hopefully these are helpful
Mark 5:25-34,
Just recently GOD revealed somethings even deeper about that moment. I'm glad you're discussing so I can share it. In Leviticus 12, Leviticus 15:19-33, Leviticus 21:3, I think it's amazing Jesus called her "daughter" making her faith the (close kinship) also: Luke 8:43-48, Matthew 9:20-22, Galatians 3:26,
Also understanding that her touching him could have had the uncleanness, if He were not the High Priest that makes atonement. Hebrews 2:17, Hebrews 4:14,15,
Hebrews 5:5-10, Hebrews 6:20, Hebrews 7:11, even though; Luke 1, shows His family was of that bloodline, Luke 1:5-37,
Also notable Jesus garment was without seams as the Priestly garment: John 19:23,24, Exodus 28:32, Exodus 29:23, 1Samuel 2:18,19,
Then knowing John the son "of priests, blameless " would declare such a thing is Powerful, maybe that's why the "teachers of the law" were so._._. Matthew 3:1-17, Mark 1:1-11, John 1:1-34,
I thought it interesting that Jesus being related to the Priest was significant Luke 1:36,41,43,
Luke 1:48 Mary likewise with Elizabeth (& John lept for joy) felt not worthy even before Jesus birth.
To add to discussion hopefully this is welcome
As well, there was instances of idolatry associated with the Ephod ( Judges 8:27, 17:5,6), as it was considered so holy as to be worshipped. Even today, in some 'high Churches', priests can be seen wearing distinctive outer clothing, with sashes & mitre resembling the priests of old. These are not the garments depicted in the New Testament as should be worn by Christians & are a poor reflection & understanding of biblical norms, rather serving to ascribe some sort of special privilege & holiness to the wearer.
Today, for the Christian, we might say that we come before God "in robes of righteousness", not of ourselves, but that given to us by virtue of Christ's death & what it accomplished for us. And being so clothed, we can come confidently before God as His children & in prayer. We are now His chosen generation & royal priesthood ( 1 Peter 2:9).
Exodus 20:26, �Neither shalt thou go up by steps unto mine altar, that thy nakedness be not discovered thereon�. You say, �I believe this verse speaks about the building of pyramid shaped temples which were very common at the time, not only in Egypt. Usually the place of worship (altar/temple) was at the top of the structure�. An altar was considered a sacred place, on which an innocent life of an animal was offered to God, symbolizing the ultimate sacrifice of that of �the Lamb of God�, or Jesus, who would take away the sin of the world. The reason for a �step-less� altar is to avoid exposing the nakedness of the person bringing the sacrifice, not necessarily the priests only. However, the Levite Priests had to wear special attire. �And thou shalt make them linen breeches to cover their nakedness; from the loins even unto the thighs they shall reach. And they shall be upon Aaron, and upon his sons, when they come in unto the tabernacle of the congregation, or when they come near unto the altar to minister in the holy place; that they bear not iniquity, and die...�, Exodus 28:42, 43. A typical size altar made of stone would be 36�H X 48� X 48�. The portable altar for the tabernacle was approx. 54�H X 90� X 90�. �And thou shalt make an altar of shittim wood, five cubits long, and five cubits broad; the altar shall be foursquare: and the height thereof shall be three cubits�, Exodus 27:1. The pyramids on the other hand, were huge and built to serve as abode to the Pharaoh in the �afterlife�. So, I don�t quite understand what do pyramids have to do with the altars?
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