I believe the LORD is working in your soul. You're feeling the need to ask help for the injuries of others, you're acknowledging you've caused. That's turning you're heart to repentance. That's a good step in the right direction. I referenced the scripture Matthew 25:31-46. However today I felt led to lead you towards salvation. The justification you've given doesn't fix the guilt, nor pain. Deuteronomy 23:18,
The scripture says 1John 1:9, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." reading in context, please read 1John 1, 1John 2, whole chapters. It starts with acknowledging Jesus came in the flesh, as the Christ, (Messiah, promised redeemer) savior John 3:16-21, speaking to GOD yourself, in prayer. Matthew 6, Matthew 26:41, Luke 18:9-14,
Luke 19:1-10, Proverbs 16:8, Psalms 37:16, notice Psalms 37 entire chapter. Proverbs 15:16, Luke 17:1,2, James 4, Romans 10:17,
Hopefully you will ask for a better way of life, Paul once named Saul had a mighty calling after Jesus encountered him. Acts 22,
Hopefully these help for new decisions 2Corinthians 5:17
Leviticus 21:13 makes it clear about the penalties for such behaviors in O.T. times. Deuteronomy 23:17 and other verses such as 1 Kings 14:24 show the cult practices involved either prostitutes or sodomites involved in worshipping of demonic gods and the associated rituals.
It has been said that such practices were also done with children and/or slaves in ancient Rome. It has also been stated that the verses about "like the time of Lot" may have referred to same sex marriages at the time.
The intentions of the heart are addressed in scriptures with sins such as adultery and violence (or thoughts of murder) against a brother. It is the mind where all sins begin. God's design is not just a physical one but spiritual as well; making two come together as one is only possible with a man and a woman; and is only approved by God by the covenant made in a marriage vow. Without such things; one becomes one flesh with someone but without the Lord having established the union; basically Satan has become the one in charge.
The whole cultural and lifestyle part of living in relationships not heterosexual is something apparently that was missing with such deviancy in ancient times. It was a sick cultural caste system sort of mentality where someone was the perpetrator and another a victim (that is the best I can put it here).
One of the most encouraging things to go is to see (especially on You Tube) the MANY testimonies of those who used to live that kind of lifestyle who have come to Christ. Becket Cook is one such example; who has interviewed others; including Rosanna Butterfield who was patiently discipled by a former Pastor of mine (Ken Smith) over 2 years time who is now married with 4 kids. There is much more to her story besides her past lifestyle-I highly recommend that you read her book "an unlikely convert" (can't recall the full title). God can and will give a close bond of friendship that is Agape love that is in no way sensual like others.
"The Old Testament forbade Israelites from charging interest against one another ( Exodus 22:25; Leviticus 25:35-37; Deuteronomy 23:19; cf. Psalm 15:5); but interest on money loaned to Gentiles was permitted ( Deuteronomy 23:20)By New Testament times Jewish scholars had already distinguished between 'lending at interest' and 'usury' (in the modern sense)." Carson/Enduring Word2018 David Guzik
Praying this helps the discussion in CHRIST JESUS name. GOD bless everyone.
Hi Terry. You quoted from Deuteronomy 23:18. The word in Hebrew, is 'keleb', which in fact is 'dog'. We see this word used in several places, but it is also used figuratively about men & it's written in contempt. So we see this particular use of the word in Psalm 22:16,20; 2 Samuel 9:8; Isaiah 56:10; etc. But here in Deuteronomy 23:18, I believe the word is applied to 'sodomites', even as we see in the previous verse 17, "There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel."
Not only was prostitution forbidden amongst God's people, but any money associated with those people was forbidden to be used in the performance of a vow before God. And this basically means that neither the wicked person or their money were allowed into God's House, unlike the heathen who often engaged in temple prostitution & used the proceeds from it. Israel was not to behave like them in any shape or form.
Maybe it was "intended for more than a vow", as you suggest, i.e. for the giving of other forms of gifts, for other purposes. But it seems that in these two verses (also verses 21-23), a vow made before the Lord is utterly binding & not to resemble the practises of the heathen.
The words "Usury" & "leasing" mean to make money from additional fees like "interest rates" additional profit from the person "giving" usury is "unusualy high rates" Leasing also meaning lying, falsehood.
Luke 2:36-38 does give us one example of a woman at the Temple (Anna) who devoted her life after her husband died to prayer. We could look at Hannah also; at least spending time there imploring God's favor. Just food for thought...
Here in the last few chapters in Deuteronomy we are seeing regulations for domestic and personal relations.
This passage of scripture speaks against asceticism. "asceticism, (from Greek aske: "to exercise," or "to train"), the practice of the denial of physical or psychological desires in order to attain a spiritual ideal or goal.
Application for this in our day in the middle ages there were groups saw the corruption in the world, and they separated themselves and went to the extreme and retired to monasteries and some became eunuchs.
Is buying a dog (puppy) a sin. I am understanding that deuteronomy 23:18 is referring to a male prostitute. Is this correct ? I understand that dogs were put here on earth as, in not better words, clean up crew of dead, like the vulture. But does that forbid me to own one ? I've owned and loved dogs my entire life and I was recently told that buying, selling, and owning a dog is a sin. Im confused and scared that I have sinned my entire life over a dog, which I did not know about. Many best friend, other than the Lord is now a sin? This could be devastating to many people i know if true. Please explain in detail the true meaning iof this
Mary. 'Usury' is an older English word, which today we would refer to as 'interest' (e.g. gaining interest on an investment, or paying interest on a loan). In the biblical usage, 'usury' sometimes had a slightly negative connotation: one of excessive interest. In the Old Testament, the children of Israel who lent out money to another 'brother in the faith', was commanded not to even charge interest (whether in money or kind) on that loan, but to freely lend (see Deuteronomy 23:19,20).
I'm unsure whether that Law is still practised in Jewry, but in Islam (which could be similar to Jewish practise), this teaching is also apparent. However, banks & other lenders somehow obviate this ruling by introducing other conditions. Even when one purchases an item at a store, even though the purchase price tag might be evident, you're not actually paying the price asked, but putting a 'contribution or gift' (Hadiya: Urdu) towards the cost of that item. So, 'usury' & money matters that were strictly enforced in the past, are somehow altered by 'letter but not by spirit', so that the profits still keep coming in.
Brother Oseas, May God bless you. Christ warns us against judging ( Matt. 7:1). We are all on this discussion page to share and enlighten each other in an atmosphere of love with diplomacy, not in condescending warnings and hasty assessments of a fellow believer's level of knowledge or intent.
Strongs is the oldest and one of the most highly respected concordances in all of Christendom. I would like to direct you to the Strongest Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, 21st Century Edition, in the Hebrew section, entry 3611, to the word keleb, which is the transliteration of the Hebrew word from which the word "dog" is translated in Deuteronomy 23:18. The various definitions are: "dog, by extension of a person of low status, a dead dog, an immoral person; male prostitute." I chose the definition of male prostitute because the word "dog" is used in Deuteronomy 23:18 next to the word "whore," and the simultaneous use of both terms indicates bedroom immorality. Also, there is strong contextual evidence in the preceding verse, Deuteronomy 23:17, which prohibits women from being prostitutes and males from being sodomites.
Also, if you read the post carefully, I never stated that the word dog referred to white collar crime, theft, etc. Rather, they were all listed as sources of "dirty money."
Brother, if you google "what were male prostitutes called in the Bible" you will find the words kadesh and keleb, the last of which I cited above. Also, you might want to consult online commentaries about Deuteronomy 23:18. Have a blessed day.
from whom you learned that "the word dog in Deuteronomy 23:v.18 is a reference to a male prostitute. One does not know the source of the money he or she receives in the winnings from gambling, some of which could be "dirty money" (e.g., gotten from white collar crime, theft, drug sales, the sale of pornographic literature)?
See, the Word is GOD. GOD did not refer to the things you said above by your interpretation of GOD's Word regardings to the "dog"; no, absolutely, the Word does not refer to those things you have said.
That said, who is he to whom the Word of God refers to as DOG? - GOD answers us by His Word- Isaiah 56:v.10-12:
10 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb DOGS, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.
11 Yea, they are greedy DOGS which can never have enough, and they ARE SHEPHERDS that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.
12 Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink (false doctrines); and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant.
Paul Apostle warned: Philippians 3:v.2 - Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the circuncision.
And JESUS left very very clear, saying: Revelation 22:v.15-16
15 For without are DOGS, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Dear LEON DAVIS, what you wrote above has nothing to do with the Word of GOD. Your interpretation of the Word of GOD- Deuteronomy 23:v.18- is a mere human conception of you, something from your imagination, or even conjectures, opinions, or guessings.
Be careful with the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD, understand?
Greetings in the name of Christ. God does not want "dirty money" brought into His house. He states in Deuteronomy 23:18, "thou shalt not bring the hire of a whore, or the price of a dog, into the house of the LORD thy God for any vow: for even both these are abomination unto the LORD thy God." The word "dog" is a reference to a male prostitute. One does not know the source of the money he or she receives in the winnings from gambling, some of which could be "dirty money" (e.g., gotten from white collar crime, theft, drug sales, the sale of pornographic literature). Undoubtedly, this is why God instituted the tithe so that His house would be maintained by "clean" money earned from honest work on one's job. The tithe can also apply to all times of income. Thank you and May God bless you!
Part 4 some scriptures concerning the Grace of God - In Reply on Acts 1 - 3 years ago
"For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgement and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengenance belongeth to me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" Hebrews 10:26-31
"We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive the grace of God in vain" 2 Corinthians 6:1
"I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth" Genesis 6:7
"But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord" Genesis 6:8
"Thou shall not Kill" Exodus 20:13
"Thou shall not commit adultery" Genesis 20:14
"An Ammonite or a Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the Lord for ever" Deuteronomy 23:3
"and Ruth the Moabitess.." Ruth 1:22
"Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy" Romans 9:18
"..ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ" Jude 1:4
"Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" Romans 6:1-2
"Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey: whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" Romans 6:16
"the soul that sinneth , it shall die" Ezekiel 18:14
Thank you for your time in providing an answer that seems honest in your heart. Obviously by what you wrote, God has allowed you to continue to live, likely for His purpose.
Thank you so much for responding to me. I will definitely take heed to what you wrote. I heard about the movie, "The Shack" and I heard it was good. I will take a look at it. One thing that I didn't think to do was to forgive myself. I will definitely put this into practice. Again, thank you.
From a young age, anyone that has ever gone out of their way to do harm to me, or my family, I have hit back with twice the amount of force needed to end the conflict ( Rev 18:6). Know when turning a cheek puts you in grave danger. This is a physical world; put Satan in his place.
I believe the LORD is working in your soul. You're feeling the need to ask help for the injuries of others, you're acknowledging you've caused. That's turning you're heart to repentance. That's a good step in the right direction. I referenced the scripture Matthew 25:31-46. However today I felt led to lead you towards salvation. The justification you've given doesn't fix the guilt, nor pain. Deuteronomy 23:18,
The scripture says 1John 1:9, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." reading in context, please read 1John 1, 1John 2, whole chapters. It starts with acknowledging Jesus came in the flesh, as the Christ, (Messiah, promised redeemer) savior John 3:16-21, speaking to GOD yourself, in prayer. Matthew 6, Matthew 26:41, Luke 18:9-14,
Luke 19:1-10, Proverbs 16:8, Psalms 37:16, notice Psalms 37 entire chapter. Proverbs 15:16, Luke 17:1,2, James 4, Romans 10:17,
Hopefully you will ask for a better way of life, Paul once named Saul had a mighty calling after Jesus encountered him. Acts 22,
Hopefully these help for new decisions 2Corinthians 5:17
Leviticus 18, note the whole chapter, ending with Leviticus 18:30, Leviticus 20, Deuteronomy 7:25-26, please read in context Deuteronomy 7, Deuteronomy 12:28-32, Deuteronomy 13, Deuteronomy 18:9-22, Deuteronomy 22:5, Deuteronomy 23:17,18, Deuteronomy 24:1-4, Deuteronomy 27:15, Deuteronomy 25,
Leviticus 11, Proverbs 3:32, Proverbs 11:20,
1Kings 11:1-14, 2Kings 23:13, Proverbs 16:12, Proverbs 28:9,
Proverbs 12:22, Proverbs 15:8,9,26, Proverbs 17:15,
Hopefully these are helpful
It has been said that such practices were also done with children and/or slaves in ancient Rome. It has also been stated that the verses about "like the time of Lot" may have referred to same sex marriages at the time.
The intentions of the heart are addressed in scriptures with sins such as adultery and violence (or thoughts of murder) against a brother. It is the mind where all sins begin. God's design is not just a physical one but spiritual as well; making two come together as one is only possible with a man and a woman; and is only approved by God by the covenant made in a marriage vow. Without such things; one becomes one flesh with someone but without the Lord having established the union; basically Satan has become the one in charge.
The whole cultural and lifestyle part of living in relationships not heterosexual is something apparently that was missing with such deviancy in ancient times. It was a sick cultural caste system sort of mentality where someone was the perpetrator and another a victim (that is the best I can put it here).
One of the most encouraging things to go is to see (especially on You Tube) the MANY testimonies of those who used to live that kind of lifestyle who have come to Christ. Becket Cook is one such example; who has interviewed others; including Rosanna Butterfield who was patiently discipled by a former Pastor of mine (Ken Smith) over 2 years time who is now married with 4 kids. There is much more to her story besides her past lifestyle-I highly recommend that you read her book "an unlikely convert" (can't recall the full title). God can and will give a close bond of friendship that is Agape love that is in no way sensual like others.
Praying this helps the discussion in CHRIST JESUS name. GOD bless everyone.
Not only was prostitution forbidden amongst God's people, but any money associated with those people was forbidden to be used in the performance of a vow before God. And this basically means that neither the wicked person or their money were allowed into God's House, unlike the heathen who often engaged in temple prostitution & used the proceeds from it. Israel was not to behave like them in any shape or form.
Maybe it was "intended for more than a vow", as you suggest, i.e. for the giving of other forms of gifts, for other purposes. But it seems that in these two verses (also verses 21-23), a vow made before the Lord is utterly binding & not to resemble the practises of the heathen.
Ecclesiastes 7:8, Psalms 86:15, Romans 2:4, 1Corinthians 4:5, Ruth 1:16,22, Ruth 4:11-22, Luke 3:23-38, note Luke 3:32
Psalms 130:3,4, Isaiah 54:8,
LORD help us all be faithful
Exodus 22:25, Leviticus 25:35-43, Deuteronomy 23:19, Ezekiel 22:12,29,
Psalms 15:5, Proverbs 28:2,
Ezekiel 18,
Hopefully these are helpful also
Vr 6 = Deuteronomy 23:3-6, Numbers 20:18-22, Numbers 24:18, Judges 11:17, 1 Kings 11:14, 2 Kings 3, 2 Kings 8:20,
Vrs. 5 & 6 = 2 Kings 8:22,
Vrs 6 & 7 = 1 Samuel 14:47,
Ezekiel 25:12, Joel 3:19, Amos 1:9,
Vrs 9 = Numbers 31:3-9, Joshua 13:21-32,
Vrs 11 = Judges 7:25, vrs 6 & 11 = Judges 8,
1 Chronicles 18:11, 1 Chronicles 18, whole chapter, 2 Chronicles 25:20-24,
Hopefully these are helpful in your study
Hopefully these are helpful in your research
Here in the last few chapters in Deuteronomy we are seeing regulations for domestic and personal relations.
This passage of scripture speaks against asceticism. "asceticism, (from Greek aske: "to exercise," or "to train"), the practice of the denial of physical or psychological desires in order to attain a spiritual ideal or goal.
Application for this in our day in the middle ages there were groups saw the corruption in the world, and they separated themselves and went to the extreme and retired to monasteries and some became eunuchs.
It's a form of legalism taken to the extreme.
I'm unsure whether that Law is still practised in Jewry, but in Islam (which could be similar to Jewish practise), this teaching is also apparent. However, banks & other lenders somehow obviate this ruling by introducing other conditions. Even when one purchases an item at a store, even though the purchase price tag might be evident, you're not actually paying the price asked, but putting a 'contribution or gift' (Hadiya: Urdu) towards the cost of that item. So, 'usury' & money matters that were strictly enforced in the past, are somehow altered by 'letter but not by spirit', so that the profits still keep coming in.
Strongs is the oldest and one of the most highly respected concordances in all of Christendom. I would like to direct you to the Strongest Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, 21st Century Edition, in the Hebrew section, entry 3611, to the word keleb, which is the transliteration of the Hebrew word from which the word "dog" is translated in Deuteronomy 23:18. The various definitions are: "dog, by extension of a person of low status, a dead dog, an immoral person; male prostitute." I chose the definition of male prostitute because the word "dog" is used in Deuteronomy 23:18 next to the word "whore," and the simultaneous use of both terms indicates bedroom immorality. Also, there is strong contextual evidence in the preceding verse, Deuteronomy 23:17, which prohibits women from being prostitutes and males from being sodomites.
Also, if you read the post carefully, I never stated that the word dog referred to white collar crime, theft, etc. Rather, they were all listed as sources of "dirty money."
Brother, if you google "what were male prostitutes called in the Bible" you will find the words kadesh and keleb, the last of which I cited above. Also, you might want to consult online commentaries about Deuteronomy 23:18. Have a blessed day.
from whom you learned that "the word dog in Deuteronomy 23:v.18 is a reference to a male prostitute. One does not know the source of the money he or she receives in the winnings from gambling, some of which could be "dirty money" (e.g., gotten from white collar crime, theft, drug sales, the sale of pornographic literature)?
See, the Word is GOD. GOD did not refer to the things you said above by your interpretation of GOD's Word regardings to the "dog"; no, absolutely, the Word does not refer to those things you have said.
That said, who is he to whom the Word of God refers to as DOG? - GOD answers us by His Word- Isaiah 56:v.10-12:
10 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb DOGS, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.
11 Yea, they are greedy DOGS which can never have enough, and they ARE SHEPHERDS that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.
12 Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink (false doctrines); and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant.
Paul Apostle warned: Philippians 3:v.2 - Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the circuncision.
And JESUS left very very clear, saying: Revelation 22:v.15-16
15 For without are DOGS, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Dear LEON DAVIS, what you wrote above has nothing to do with the Word of GOD. Your interpretation of the Word of GOD- Deuteronomy 23:v.18- is a mere human conception of you, something from your imagination, or even conjectures, opinions, or guessings.
Be careful with the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD, understand?
Genesis 19:1-8
Leviticus 18:22
Leviticus 20:13
Deuteronomy 23:17
Judges 19:16-25
Romans 1:24-27
1 Corinthians 6:9,10
1 Timothy 1:9,10
Jude 7
"We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive the grace of God in vain" 2 Corinthians 6:1
"I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth" Genesis 6:7
"But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord" Genesis 6:8
"Thou shall not Kill" Exodus 20:13
"Thou shall not commit adultery" Genesis 20:14
"An Ammonite or a Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the Lord for ever" Deuteronomy 23:3
"and Ruth the Moabitess.." Ruth 1:22
"Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy" Romans 9:18
"..ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ" Jude 1:4
"Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" Romans 6:1-2
"Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey: whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" Romans 6:16
"the soul that sinneth , it shall die" Ezekiel 18:14
I walked around the house saying, I forgive you... and one day I realized I didn't feel those feelings anymore. I was set free! It's a miracle.
:)
Thank you so much for responding to me. I will definitely take heed to what you wrote. I heard about the movie, "The Shack" and I heard it was good. I will take a look at it. One thing that I didn't think to do was to forgive myself. I will definitely put this into practice. Again, thank you.
Try turning the other cheek and see the blessings therein.
There will be no feelings of relief or joy for some time. Every thought that strays to the bitterness: just say I forgive you (or even I forgive me)
It may take a 1000 times... just be obedient.
One day you'll realize it's gone. The bitterness is gone. You're free. Forever.
There's a movie I love about this very thing. Most super spiritual people hate it. It helped me.
It's called The Shack.
The guy who played in Avatar acts in it.