Discuss 2 Samuel 24


2 Samuel 24 KJV Bible discussions
 
  • Richard H Priday - 6 months ago
    God's anger (Part 3)

    Concluding this first topic on God's attributes related to anger we also see the imprecatory Psalms; that is those Bible scriptures that plead with God for judgment to occur on our enemies. These verses sometimes are general in nature which David would say in his long struggle with Saul and those perusing Him. David is a good example for us of forgiveness in that regard; as Saul was cornered multiple times and because he was still recognized as the anointed king David didn't take the opportunity to slay him. Even at his death he mourned for him as we see in 2 Samuel 1. There was no PERSONAL vendetta here; much as there isn't with Christ who will rule and reign with justice ( Isaiah 11:3-4) but with righteousness; in other words He will work with God's direction and not let external circumstances skew the picture.

    When studying God's anger our first reaction is to understand his attitude toward gross external manifestations of sin; which surely is the state of the world today more than ever. As I said in the last post He chastises all those he loves ( Heb. 12:6). God allowed collateral damage both with David's sin with Bathsheeba ( 2 Samuel 11:3-4) and with the census ( 2 Samuel 24:12). We find it illogical why many innocent had to die in such instances but David brought wars upon himself and others and many died in the second census incident with its after affects. Therefore it is following God's precepts as to HOW to worship and heeding His warnings against sin that are crucial. Saul began his fall by trying to offer a sacrifice himself in an unauthorized procedure as a king. ( 1 Samuel 13:8-14). David didn't trust God's strength when he took the census. This was much the reason Solomon fell as well; he hoarded gold and silver and foreign women as wives all which God warned about. (see 1 Kings 1:11; Deut. 17:17). Those who He loves go through the refining fire; let us pass the test so we can rejoice at the Bema Seat (2 Cor510
  • Jordyn - In Reply - 6 months ago
    Sister Jema:

    Good questions.

    Does God tell us not to do something, then turn around and CAUSE US to do it.

    YES!

    God told the children NOT TO marry outside their tribe.

    Samson was told by his mother and father that GOD SAID NOT TO marry a Philistine.

    Judges 14:4 But his father and mother KNEW NOT it was of the LORD that he (God) sought an occasion AGAINST the Philistines.

    God told David NOT TO number ISRAEL:

    2 Samuel 24:1 ...and God MOVED David to go and number Israel.

    God Bless YOU!
  • Chris - In Reply - 11 months ago
    Hello Shelley. Indeed, this is a very sad disturbing account that would ordinarily raise questions as to David's culpability by his actions, when in fact God had moved David to conduct this census (2 Samuel chapter 24). I used to struggle with this matter as to how is it possible that God could cause someone to commit an evil act (or, be His instrument to execute His judgement in such a manner), and then have him (David) realize his sin for doing so & ultimately that he was compelled to prepare burnt & peace offerings to atone for his sin.

    But I merged this passage with 1 Chronicles 21:1, "And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel", to correctly understand that God's Plan to satisfy His Anger against Israel was by lifting His Protection from them, thus giving Satan licence to act. So if I may paraphrase, I would then read 2 Samuel 24:1 (in conjunction with 1 Chronicles 21:1), in this way: 'And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and He allowed Satan to stand against God's people by moving, or inciting, David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.'

    Now Israel was in a horrible position; not only was their great enemy Satan ever ready to pounce on them to lead them away from their God, but God had for this particular time removed His covering from them, so that Satan would do to Israel what God wanted as His punishment against them. I see a similar act in the Book of Job, when God permitted Satan to test Job's integrity & fear of God, so that God's view of Job would remain unchanged. In the 2 Samuel incident, God used Satan to punish His people for their wickedness; in Job, God allowed Satan to test His faithful one to prove his uprightness.

    So, I see that David was still responsible for his decision & action and so had to acknowledge it & repent of it. The fact that David's heart was smitten after his sin, shows that he realized his foolishness for not trusting God in spite of Joab's warning.
  • Richard H Priday - 1 year ago
    How God works in a fallen world.

    Understanding "God works all things out for the good for those who love Him" ( Romans 8:28) needs to be taken; of course in context with the end of the verse "who have been called according to His purpose". Deuteronomy 29:29 states that certain things in the "hidden counsel of God" are not for us to try to comprehend. We can be assured; however that through our own sin God's people are chastised as well as through those done against them. I have cited references to these concepts before.

    To take a couple examples from y own personal acquaintances; I know of a friend who was born out of his mom being raped. He recently has seen his mother converted to the faith and they live together under the same roof (she is in her 70's). The other person I know is also in her seventies; and had a child after being raped. The mother is a believer (if still alive she has been in hospice care and unfortunately I am not sure of her status after having to move from Pittsburgh in 2021). Her daughter is the only friend she has basically; apparently other members of the family are deceased or there were issues. I was able to help facilitate communication between them after her daughter in Canada moved to a new address through a phone call and mail.

    There are certainly other people who have chosen abortion or remaining incommunicado with their own offspring after these events (although in all fairness the adoption agencies may have prevented it).

    There are several things to consider. God Himself declares "I create both good and evil." ( Isaiah 45:7). This; of course can be defined as a calamity; or perhaps in David's case the better choice when God dealt with the repercussions of sin ( 2 Samuel 24:12). Certainly Satan was used for God's purposes and is the major theme of the entire book of Job. Another viewpoint is that we are never free to "save ourselves" but certainly it appears God lets men freely decide things in this life
  • Paul - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Henry

    You said,

    You made a statement I can't buy that is that the bible Gods Word

    Contradicts itself impossible.

    I don't say the Bible contradicts itself to say the Bible is false.

    I'm saying the Bible contradicts itself because it was compiled by man and translated by man; therefore, there are flaws.

    Please provide your insight on the following not being a contradiction,

    For with God nothing shall be impossible. ( Luke 1:37)

    For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

    And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

    If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. ( Hebrews 6:4-6)

    And please tell me who provoked David, God or Satan?

    And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah. ( 2 Samuel 24:1)

    And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel. ( 1 Chronicles 21:1)

    I have answered your questions but you have not answered mine.

    I don't want to cause contention I like the discussion for truth.
  • Paul - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Hi Adam

    You asked,

    Why can't both verses be true?

    I do believe both verses are true.

    I appreciate very much your input.

    I am struggling to understand,

    Are you saying we are saved by both works and grace?

    I did say I do believe we are saved by both.

    But as far as Bible contradictions, they do exist.

    And to say Paul and James contradict would not be an issue.

    The Bible contradicts itself quite often.

    It is not uncommon.

    Nevertheless, it does not shake my faith in the Bible.

    For example,

    Matthew records Christ came through David's son Solomon ( Matthew 1:6)

    But Luke records Christ came through David's son Nathan ( Luke 3:31)

    Exodus 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

    Exodus 33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.

    And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah. ( 2 Samuel 24:1)

    And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel. ( 1 Chronicles 21:1)

    Who provoked David, God or Satan?

    Is Judah or Dan are a lion's whelp?

    And of Dan he said, Dan is a lion's whelp: he shall leap from Bashan. ( Deuteronomy 33:22)

    Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up? ( Genesis 49:9)

    And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people. ( Exodus 32:14)

    And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent. ( 1 Samuel 15:9)
  • ELB - 1 year ago
    THE WORKS OF GOD

    2 Samuel 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he (the LORD) moved (caused) David against them to say, Go, number Israel.

    1 Chronicles 21:2 And SATAN stood up against Israel, and provoked (caused) David to number Israel.

    Same event in the history of Israel; yet one says Satan caused, and one says the LORD caused.

    Isaiah 54:16 Behold, I (the Father) have created the smith (Christ) that bloweth the coals in the FIRE (our God is a consuming FIRE), and that bringeth forth an instrument (Satan) for his (Christ) WORK; and I (the Lord) have CREATED the waster (SATAN) to destroy (destruction of the flesh).

    1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such a one to SATAN for the DESTRUCTION OF THE FLESH, that the spirit might be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

    God does EVERYTHING through the hands of men, God brings his judgements on earth through the hands of men.

    Isaiah 10:5 O Assyrian, the rod of MINE (God's) anger, and the staff in their (Assyria) hand is MINE (God's) indignation.

    Isaiah 10:6 I (God) will send him (Assyria) against a hypocritical nation (Israel), and against the people of my wrath will I (God) give him (Assyria) a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the street.

    Jeremiah 51:7 Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD'S HAND .......

    Satan is an INSTRUMENT IN GOD'S HAND.

    God Bless You
  • T. Levis - In Reply on 2 Samuel 20 - 2 years ago
    Joab serving King David : 2 Samuel 11:14-25, in context: 2 Samuel 11, 2 Samuel 14, 2 Samuel 24:4,8,9,10,11,12,13, 1 Chronicles 21:4-5,

    1 Chronicles 26:27-28, 1 Chronicles 27:24,

    Joab going outside of King David's orders, but for the good of David & Israel? 2 Samuel 18, 2 Samuel 19:1-8, 2 Samuel 24:1-3,

    1 Chronicles 21:3, 1 Chronicles 21:6,

    As Chris stated revenge, Joab had went after before: 1 Chronicles 11:6-8, 1 Chronicles 11:20, 2 Samuel 3:24-28, 2 Samuel 3:30,

    1 Kings 1,

    1 Kings 2:5-6, 1 Kings 2:22, 28-34,

    Hopefully this is useful in your study
  • Chris - In Reply on 2 Samuel 24 - 2 years ago
    Hi Ron. Those are two good portions of Scripture you've given for us to consider (btw, I think you meant to write 1 Chronicles 21:1).

    To answer your questions properly, we must first know that God is neither the Author of sin, nor the tempter of mankind to sin. James 1:13-15: "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death."

    So, to your passages. Clearly in the second passage ( 1 Chronicles 21:1), Satan is said to have "provoked" David to sin by numbering Israel. Yet 2 Samuel 24:1 speaks of the LORD having provoked David. To make sense of this, we can also recall Exodus 7:13,14 (& others verses like it), where "God hardened Pharaoh's heart" refusing to let the Israelites leave Egypt. We can also look at Job 1:9-12, where God gave Satan permission over Job's family & possessions. In both Scriptures, God doesn't incite or cause one to do evil, but brings about a situation where He removes His absolute control. And we can say the same for ourselves: when confronted with a situation to sin, God can either prevent us from committing sin or allow us to determine what we will do with it - we have a mind (& the Holy Spirit, if we're believers), to choose our path.

    When we bring those two passages together, we see that God "moved David". God did not force him to do wrong, but steered him in that direction of decision & allow his better judgement to not pursue such sin. Even Joab warned David about doing this & later David realized that he had done wrong, his heart was smitten & he repented (v10). With Job also, Job did nothing wrong, but God allowed Satan license to provoke Job to sin - but unlike David, Job did not. Satan is our enemy to entice us to sin - not God - God allows the tests - we have to choose rightly.
  • Ron on 2 Samuel 24 - 2 years ago
    In 2 Samuel 24 1 who is telling David to take count of the Israelites?

    And in 2 Chronicles 21 1 Who is giving David to take count of the Israelites?
  • Earl Bowman - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Sister Glenda, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

    Age is in YOUR favour; because, you can look back at more experiences of LIFE, than your daughter.

    The SPIRIT has CAUSED you (through the CHOICES he CAUSED you to make) to have those experiences of LIFE (good and evil) because it is necessary to become like God. ( Genesis 3:22)

    God KNOWS how to USE EVIL for GOOD.

    God CAUSED Joseph to have a silly little dream and to tell his brothers about that dream.

    God CAUSED his brothers to be envious and hate Joseph.

    God CAUSED his brothers to rise up and do EVIL against their brother Joseph.

    But look what THE WORD SAYS:

    Genesis 50:19 And Joseph said unto them, Fear not, for I am in the place of God (where God purposed him to be).

    Genesis 50:20 But as FOR YOU, you thought EVIL against me, but God meant (caused) it (evil) unto GOOD, to bring to pass, as it is this day, TO SAVE MUCH PEOPLE ALIVE.

    God is STILL DOING this TODAY; Man just does't BELIEVE IT.

    Did Judas have a Choice outside of what God had purposed him TO DO.( Zechariah 11:12)

    Did Peter have a Choice outside of what God had purposed him TO DO (deny Jesus and flee)( Zechariah 13:7).

    Did Pharaoh have a Choice outside of what God had purposed Him TO DO ( Romans 9:17).

    Did David have a Choice outside of what God purposed him TO DO.

    2 Samuel 24:1 And AGAIN the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and he MOVED (CAUSED) David against them, to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

    God PURPOSED that you are going to become the IMAGE of HIM ( Romans 8:29)( 1 Corinthians 15:49), Do you think you have a CHOICE outside of what he has purpose you TO DO.

    Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my Spirit in you, and CAUSE you to walk in my statues (good or evil), and you shall keep my judgements, and DO THEM.

    God's WAY is not man's WAY.
  • Cherry Dickerson - 2 years ago
    Biblical Contradictions in the form of a question:

    Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?

    God did ( 2 Samuel 24: 1)

    Satan did ( I Chronicles 2 1:1)

    In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel?

    Eight hundred thousand ( 2 Samuel 24:9)

    One million, one hundred thousand ( I Chronicles 21:5)

    How many fighting men were found in Judah?

    Five hundred thousand ( 2 Samuel 24:9)

    Four hundred and seventy thousand ( I Chronicles 21:5)

    God sent his prophet to threaten David with how many years of famine?

    Seven ( 2 Samuel 24:13)

    Three ( I Chronicles 21:12)

    How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?

    Twenty-two ( 2 Kings 8:26)

    Forty-two ( 2 Chronicles 22:2)

    How old was Jehoiachin when he became king of Jerusalem?

    Eighteen ( 2 Kings 24:8)

    Eight ( 2 Chronicles 36:9)

    How long did he rule over Jerusalem?

    Three months ( 2 Kings 24:8)

    Three months and ten days ( 2 Chronicles 36:9)

    The chief of the mighty men of David lifted up his spear and killed how many men at one time?

    Eight hundred ( 2 Samuel 23:8)

    Three hundred ( I Chronicles 11: 11)

    When did David bring the Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem? Before defeating the Philistines or after?

    After ( 2 Samuel 5 and 6)

    Before ( I Chronicles 13 and 14)

    How many pairs of clean animals did God tell Noah to take into the Ark?

    Two ( Genesis 6:19, 20)

    Seven ( Genesis 7:2). But despite this last instruction only two pairs went into the ark ( Genesis 7:8-9)

    When David defeated the King of Zobah, how many horsemen did he capture?

    One thousand and seven hundred ( 2 Samuel 8:4)

    Seven thousand ( I Chronicles 18:4)

    How many overseers did Solomon appoint for the work of building the temple?

    Three thousand six hundred ( 2 Chronicles 2:2)

    Three thousand three hundred ( I Kings 5:16)

    The list is practically endless.
  • John - 2 years ago
    Luke 3:23 ( Matthew 1: 16) ( Could you please clarify what went wrong here? Also,see 2 Samuel 24:9 and 1 Chronicle 21:5 This is the text that I found most appealing. I have a few errors and issues, but all I want is for this to be cleared.
  • A disciple on Psalms 15 - 6 years ago
    "And the king said unto Araunah, Nay; but I will surely buy it of thee at a price: neither will I offer burnt offerings unto the LORD my God of that which doth cost me nothing." 2 Samuel 24:24 TRUE TRUE TRUE!!! No one is redeemed or can come at all to the Father except through the blood of Christ; but no one just slips in without doing righteousness. Its not a contest, but proof of grace wrought.
  • Mike D on Psalms 119:39 - 8 years ago
    What is the price of your testimony? David is asking God to turn away my reproach. I know from my own walk, the last thing I want, is to be a stumbling block to others. Imagine King David and the influence he had over untold numbers. His concern was in giving occasion to God 's enemies. David knew God 's judgments we good however he also knew man 's weren 't. At one point David was about to be disciplined of God and he had 3 choices, of which he chose to be disciplined by God rather than by men, for he trusted God to be more gracious in the process. 2 Samuel 24: 12-14. We are thankful for God 's forgiveness however our sinful choices will often be devastating to the lives of others and will, even forgiven, carry eternal consequences. Nothing to me is worse to hearing someone saying, " if that 's what Christianity is, I don 't want anything to do with it "!
  • Dumisani on 1 Chronicles 19 - 9 years ago
    why is there a contradiction in the 2 sciptures? 2 samuel 24 1 and 1 chronicles 21 1
  • Joel on 1 Chronicles 21 - 10 years ago
    Satan in verse one is not an external being. The parallel account in 2 Samuel 24: 1 explains: Now again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and it incited David against them to say, "Go, number Israel and Judah." The original word means opponent, adversary, as in Numbers 22:22, it can even be good: an angel of God.


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