Discuss 2 Peter 2


2 Peter 2 KJV Bible discussions
 
  • Richard H Priday - 1 week ago
    Romans 2:9 states: There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile..

    (NIV); but says tribulation and anguish in the KJV. There is another verse stating that judgment begins at the house of God. ( 1 Peter 4:17).

    Just as not all Israel is Israel ( Romans 9:6); not all the "professing" church is the possessing church; that is possessing the Holy Spirit and true salvation. Jesus made that perfectly clear to those who thought because they were the physical descendants of Abraham that gave them some sort of benefit were sadly mistaken ( John 8:39-44). Those who had seen Christ; knew the prophecies about the Messiah and yet rejected Him would in fact be worse off than Sodom and Gomorrah in their punishment. ( Matt. 11:21-24). We see similar warnings for those who have knowledge of the truth and become reprobate; in that it would be better not to have known it in the first place ( 2 Peter 2:21).

    Testing ourselves to see if we are in the faith is sadly lacking today among professing believers; or we would see a reality check in the fruits of many lives. ( 2 Corinthians 13:5). We can glibly see this example as a carnal bunch of people and think that being steeped in our own religious training or theology that we are automatically exempt from this test. I have said before that there are dangers in any extreme that is lacking the balancing attribute; such as with loving people and warning them of judgment to come ( John 16:8). We see in the Ephesian church everything being done properly but their first love somehow becoming distant in their hearts. Look at 1 Corinthians 13:6; love rejoices in the truth. The basic fact that man's heart is desperately wicked ( Jeremiah 17:9) and that our sin makes us enemies of God ( James 4:4) means that there is a wall between opposing parties and yes God is angry with the wicked (i.e. us) every day. ( Psalm 7:11). Having our heads in the sand doesn't help anyone.
  • Richard H Priday - 2 weeks ago
    Necessary doctrines: Fulfilling the Great Commission

    In Matthew 25; starting in verse 14 we see the Parable of the talents. The first two individuals are rewarded with eternal rewards far greater than invested in this life but in accordance to their faithfulness now. The last servant of course lost it all including apparently his soul. There is a slightly different viewpoint in the parallel Parable in Luke 19 where reward is lost; but it would appear hell would be for those who wouldn't have Christ rule over them which is mentioned after the example of this servant at the end of the Parable. Either way; Jesus made it clear that we are commanded to go out and spread the Good News of the Gospel. A true believer therefore is in danger of losing rewards in heaven; making it in through the "skin of their teeth" ( 1 Cor. 3:15); while a professing Christian may not even be saved if they are not recognized by Christ as a true believer as we see in the Parable of the 5 unwise virgins. We see a similar pattern in the admonition that anyone who teaches others to break one of the "least commandments" ( Matthew 5:19) will be the least in heaven (i.e. loss of rewards). This makes one consider what happens for a greater commandment and how that is defined. This would be of course a "damnable heresy" ( 2 Peter 2:1) and clearly indicates damnation for such individuals in hell.

    The great difficulty we have here is if we try to define what is necessary doctrine or unnecessary is that all of scripture is connected so that we are in danger of "cherry picking" what we want to follow rather than what is needed. We also have to look at the attitude of the heart. In the tale of Ananias and Sapphira; it is often overlooked that the problem was not that only a portion of what was sold was brought to the church offering; but that they had lied about their commitment or vow that was made to give all. The other issue is what people say is hard to understand. More to come..
  • Ronald Whittemore - In Reply - 4 months ago
    Hi Jesse,

    Part 1

    If I may add a few points to this subject, I know we have different understandings on this and I hope you will not be offended, these are questions I have asked myself. What does Scripture support, our soul is an immortal entity that consciously lives on after the death of the body or does it sleep in the grave until the resurrection? Is the definition of death a separation of the soul from the body or is it the end of life, a permanent cessation, and the grave is our home until we are resurrected?

    John 3:15-16 Without the belief in Jesus we will perish the Greek word apollumi means destroy utterly, to put out of the way entirely, abolish as in Psalms 37:10 Psalms 92:7 Proverbs 10:28-29 Job 20:4-7 Malachi 4:1-3 2 Peter 2:12.

    Matthew 10:28 we are to fear the one who can destroy the body and the soul in hell, the Greek word for destroy is apollumi same as perish, a permanent/absolute destruction. Hell, the Greek word is geenna the fire and smoke that goes up and burns forever that never goes out is a reference to the lake of fire. Job 17:13 the Hebrew word sheol is the same word translated as hell. Job 17:16 the word pit is the same Hebrew word.

    Our first death is sleep, Psalms 13:3 Daniel 12:2 Acts 13:36 1 Cor. 15:51. If all souls are immortal which means they have eternal life, the question must be asked, what is the gift of eternal life we see in John 3:15 John 6:54 Romans 6:23 Titus 1:2 1 John 2:25 Jude 1:21? If our soul is immortal, why do we have to put immortality on as said in 1 Corinthians 15:51-58?

    See part 2
  • Richard H Priday - 4 months ago
    Truth mixed with falsehood (part 2 of introduction outline).

    Continuing with my first outline there is a #3 issue. That is not being fully persuaded that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God. This results in various sinful results. We are assured that he who teaches one error and practices it will be the least in the Kingdom of God ( Matt. 5:19). There are more serious issues such as what would be categorized as "damnable heresies" ( 2 Peter 2:1) so this isn't something to trifle with.

    One thing that contributes to this scriptural mindset are poor translations of scripture; which can involve a few issues or be wanton disregard to the clear meanings of all source texts in order to propagate teachings of cults.

    A second issue is the leadership selling their own version of "snake oil" in order to facilitate preaching of some sort of "prosperity gospel" which no doubt is cultlike in placing undue emphasis on the charisma of the teacher or ministry as opposed to a balanced church as mandated in the scriptures. Lack of church discipline for pastors and laypersons alike often results; and other times of course legalism can occur; sometimes even alongside the first error. Scripture should never be used to push an agenda that diverts attention from the Great Commission and other key commands; nor should it promote lawlessness or "cheap grace."

    The third issue; often tied in with the others mentioned here is other writings being put on too high a pedestal or revered as somehow being worthy of worship or even worth considering from other religions. This can be as innocuous as obsessing on a classic such as "Pilgrim's Progress" or other worthy Christian fiction at the expense of purely studying scriptures to widespread error from espousing some New Age concept and especially Christ being presented as a great teacher and such which those of other religions would espouse apart from His Deity.

    Usually some truth is retained which makes error more potent.
  • Richard H Priday - 6 months ago
    SPIRITUAL BLINDNESS: Unique to man

    Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth. ( John 9:41).

    In the Old Testament we see the mad Prophet Balaam stopped by a donkey who God readily used to block his way and for a mouthpiece of rebuke. ( 2 Peter 2:16-18 as quoted in the N.T. from Numbers 22-24). We see also how the demons Jesus cast out knew who Jesus was ( Mark 3:11-12). This is somewhat understandable from the fact that the angels were there to see God in heaven and witness the creation of the earth ( Job 38:7).

    We are warned in James 2:19 about not just saying that we believe in God. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom; this is quoted many times in scripture. The conscience of men can be seared after some time; hearts hardened ( 1 Tim. 4:2; Exodus 7:3 and subsequent verses with Pharaoh). A believer has a healthy awe based on God's Holiness; and without holiness no man can see God ( Heb. 12:14).

    Only man could see the miracles of Christ and still remain in unbelief. That would not just be related to the physical miracles when on earth; but also the miracle of salvation which often was accompanied by deliverance in scripture but which we see today. Mercifully God forgives any sin against the Father or Son is forgivable ( Matt. 12:32); but against the Holy Spirit is not.

    The Spirit demonstrates His Holiness amongst the ministry of John 16:8 warning the world of sin; righteousness and judgment to come. The opposite of a broken and contrite heart is pride and self righteousness (only the sick need a physician Matt. 9:12).

    Therefore such Pharisitical people also make their own twisted judgments on right and wrong and condemn others based on that mindset.

    May we read scripture for its true meaning not through any man centered agenda; respecting ALL of it as God's Word ( 2 Tim. 3:16). May we have a heart to always glean new truths from God; seeking His face daily ( Psalm 1:2
  • Chris - In Reply - 6 months ago
    Sorry, 2 Peter 2:19 should read as, 2 Peter 1:19.
  • Chris - In Reply - 6 months ago
    Thanks Jimbob. Our completely different understanding of those verses is clear, so others can decide as to what they speak of. But to your statement, "Most Bible-believing Christians see the New Testament as the prophecy, not the Old Testament as the prophecy", I guess I must be the odd-man out. I see the OT as the prophecy given & the NT as prophecy fulfilled, or yet to be fulfilled as the case may be.

    Then to 2 Peter 2:19, "We have also a more sure word of prophecy". This word from Peter refers back to verses 16-18. Here, he affirms that what he is sharing about Jesus' Coming & Glory & also from his presence at Jesus' Transfiguration, were not the result of fables (maybe even from human imaginations), but his words to them were confirmation of the prophecies of old concerning Jesus. And this "sure word of prophecy" gave a double affirmation to his readers because he (Peter) was an immediate witness to Jesus' Life & Words, to His Glory & Power. So, the prophecy of Jesus was given in the OT, but Peter was a living witness to that prophecy, now fulfilled, having now a "sure word" to give them, to which they can't deny. So, I see no reference in this passage to "the Bible we have today". Blessings.
  • GiGi - In Reply - 7 months ago
    Hello Jema,

    The reason that I used an historical source is that the church continued after the death of all the apostles and the writing of the NT Scriptures. The first council was the one in Jerusalem, probably about 50 A.D. in Acts 15 where the topic of what of the Mosaic Law the Gentile believers were to follow. Paul and Barnabas attended this council, meeting with Peter, James, and perhaps a few others. The topic of the Trinity or divinity of Jesus was not discussed at this one. You can find out what the early bishops (the first ones appointed by the apostles and subsequent ones by the preceding bishops) spoke about these two topics but you will not find the writings of these bishops in the Bible.

    I adhere to the teaching of the Word. It is my source for God's revelation to man. However, History is source to discover how the early saints believed and how the church functioned over the centuries. learning such history is not contrary to learning the Word nor is it forbidden by the Word.

    I looked up the teachings of Polycarp, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Justin Martyr, for example, to find out what they taught on these topics. They lived in the late first century into the second century. For me, what they taught is important because they were so close in time to the teachings of the apostles and it gives us information about what was passed down to them before the NT was compiled and there were just the letters/writings of the apostles copied and passed to the churches.

    If we look at what is taught in the churches today and compare that to what was taught in the Scriptures and practiced in the early church years we can see that what we do today is very different from then. This does not mean that all of what we do today is wrong. It just contrasts what was practiced early on.

    The early church leaders did need to refute false doctrines as the Scriptures instructed. See Titus 1:10-16; 2 Peter 2; all of Jude; 1 John 4:1; 1 Tim. 6:3. ... cont.
  • Alan Manson - In Reply - 9 months ago
    With reference to Isaiah 45:7 and your concerns regarding:

    1. "I form the light, and create darkness"

    2. "I make peace, and create evil" - my response is this.

    The Bible reveals many 'opposites' (or contrasts) that exist in scripture, such as:

    - Being HOLY or UNHOLY ( 1 Peter 1:16; Heb 12:14)

    - Being SAVED or UNSAVED (or 'lost' - Romans 10:9-10; Matt 18:11)

    - Walking in the SPIRIT or walking in the FLESH ( Rom 8:1; 2 Peter 2:10)

    It is in this context that God created DARKNESS so that the LIGHT that He dwells in ( 1 Tim 6:15-1) has some comparison. It is the same principle regarding "peace" (a good life and the pursuit of happiness) and "evil" (meaning war, death and destruction) that God creates these things.

    However, on a spiritual basis, LIGHT represents absolute TRUTH, whereas DARKNESS represents lies, deception, misinformation, etc.

    "And this is the condemnation, that LIGHT [via the words of Christ and the Apostles] is come into the world, and [religious-based] men LOVED DARKNESS rather than LIGHT [or Bible-based truth], because their deeds [of corrupting God's word - 2 Cor 2:17] were EVIL." ( John 3:19).

    As for God creating "EVIL" the same principle applies:

    - Being GOOD or being EVIL ( Matt 19:17; John 3:20)

    - Doing GOOD or doing EVIL ( Matt 5:44; 1 Peter 3:12)

    The principles in Isa 45:7 therefore regulate what people attract on Earth from God according to this statement:

    "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth [by his actions - meaning, 'good' or 'evil' in this life], that shall he also reap [in the next life]. 8 For he that soweth to his flesh [or lusts in this life] shall of the flesh reap corruption [in Hell throughout eternity]; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap LIFE EVERLASTING [with God - IF all the conditions associated with Salvation are met]." ( Galatians 6:6-8)

    I hope this answers your questions, One eighty.
  • Richard H Priday - 9 months ago
    Since I have some time to spare; and this probably won't be a high response posting; I'll make a few observations.

    Noah was 600; and one could argue it is a typology of the 6000 years of the earth's existence before the Tribulation; followed by the 1000 years of the Millennium by 2 Peter 3:8.

    In the time before the flood known as "Antidiluvian"; clearly men lived longer than afterwards. Thus; Adam and many of his progeny lived for 900 plus years; interestingly no one made it quite to 1000; which may be reserved to those who survive in the Millennium due to long life spans once again at that time with a paradise type of earth; albeit still with fallen men (see Isaiah 65:20). There was therefore the likelihood that many were only 2 or 3 generations from Adam by the time the flood came along; so that secondhand accounts of God's story of creation would leave wicked men without excuse. Enoch lived interestingly enough 365 years then was taken; perhaps somehow indicating a day symbolizing a year (although the old calendar was 360 days old); God also told Noah that He would only contend with men 120 years in Genesis 6:3 which could indicate their future lifespan limit; or the time left before the flood from that point.

    In any case; God is longsuffering not wishing anyone to perish. ( 2 PEter 3:9). It is interesting that this verse is right after the one above that I quoted; and certainly explains why He waited so long to judge. Noah was a "preacher of righteousness" ( 2 Peter 2:5) but the narrative shows that only 8 were saved in the boat; and they were his immediate family. Sodom's destruction also followed a similar vein; in that case only Lot; his 2 daughters and wife came out of the city; and his wife turned back and was destroyed. In the flood; Nephilim would have contaminated man's bloodline as I see it from Genesis 6:9 that explains why no one else COULD be saved. His patience is seen with Sodom as well ( Gen. 18:32).
  • Richard H Priday - 9 months ago
    True Christ vs. Imaginary (further examination of confessors vs. possessors)

    The parable of the wheat and the tares should be alarming to everyone; and necessary instruction. ( Matt. 13:24-30). It is said that the wheat and tares are indistinguishable from one another before they are fully ripened. It appears from this parable that God has His purposes for these two groups to remain until the end of the age. Most probably; this is testing for those who ARE true believers to ensure that they won't fall for the temptations of this world as well as false or compromised doctines as well as a lifestyle of sin. Again; our society in general doesn't seem to be finding too many newcomers to churches because of it is a novel practice; or the world is being turned upside down ( Acts 17:6) which were characteristic of the church in Apostolic times.

    However; the "damnable heresies" ( 2 Peter 2:1) are increasing along with 1 Timothy 4:1-2; etc. are invading former solid denominations so that a person can have a sense of respectability and pride in church attendance that tells them what they want to hear. Part of this; of course is the result of decades of permissive society and decline of morals; both within and without the church walls; I have stated before no doubt that the destruction of marriages is what I consider to be the primary initial cause especially post World War 2 of what we see today.

    A primary example here is how people look at 1 John 2:1-2 on confession of sin and forgiveness. While it is true that Christ's death took care of all sin; past and future; we still have to confess sin; and if someone has the Holy Spirit in them they cannot be content with sin ( Galatians 5:17). a LIFESTYLE of sin such as continual adultery; theft; fornication; and other actions means that ultimately we don't trust God as to His warnings such as in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 as to reaping what we sow; and don't trust Him to be in the driver's seat in our lives and our souls.
  • Richard H Priday - 9 months ago
    Christ: Real and imaginary (intro ending)

    Lot's wife never demonstrated saving faith from what scripture would indicate; at the very least desiring more to turn back to see the fate of the city doomed for destruction rather than to escape. "Righteous Lot" ( 2 Peter 2:7-8) was vexed every day; and clearly quite compromised in his dealings when he offered his daughters to the men who were trying to break down his door to commit abominations. No mention of his wife is in the scriptures; as was with Sarah; for instance in Hebrews 11.

    Today in church it was discussed how Abraham was said to be the only one who was a "friend" of God ( James 2:23). Exodus 33:11 states the same of Moses as well so technically my Pastor erred. My point here I may expound on later; namely the fact that God truly spoke in a different manner to them than many others in the Bible. The friendship; in other words went both ways. The discussion also came up today in Sunday school on how He is both Master and friend. This is a mystery in itself; and forces us beyond stereotypical cultural viewpoints toward such a relationship. As for now; I will just state that Lot had to be "shoved" out of his town literally; and the angels had to put up with his ridiculous bantering about going to the nearby little town; which was promptly abandoned once Lot saw what happened and hid in the mountains. Abraham and Moses both had slow starts and their own issues; but were able to have close fellowship with the Lord as we see from Genesis 18:17 with Abraham and Exodus 32:30 where Moses acted to intercede to prevent God from destroying all of Israel. That scene is another discussion as to its theological implications.

    We all should strive to be as the saints in the "hall of fame" in Hebrews 11; not stubborn like Jonah as an ox. Nonetheless these all are true believers. We CANNOT claim God's promises with an imaginary Christ or on other terms than scripture dictates and expect it to be true.
  • Richard H Priday - 10 months ago
    Church: Beyond the five senses (continued)

    My previous posts have discussed the extreme of overly legalistic churches vs those who are overly emotional; in short. Within a certain context; it is often helpful when one can experience the joy of the Lord when expressed more openly in a different type of fellowship on occasion as well as those from more expressive congregants to be introduced or reestablished with fellowship in more traditional worship. There is room for correction in either case; one extreme has the warnings of the Ephesian church abandoning their first love in Revelation 2:4-5; while there are sufficient warnings not only for order as in the Corinthians church but against false doctrines and "damnable heresies" such as 2 Peter 2:1 mentions.

    This discussion; to reiterate is considering a true fellowship of worship sort of example and the various styles; preferences or modes of worship that often are commonplace and overlap; as stated in the introduction based on general parameters in scripture but as we shall see often influenced by culture in a given nation more than we may observe after being immersed in such traditions for a long time. To fast forward to the big picture let's look to the supernatural realm; specifically related to the angels and demons; under the authority of Christ and Satan and what a service is like in that dimension concurrent to our actions inside a church service on earth. The test of doctrine; for example shows how to test the spirits as to which ones proclaim Jesus has come in the flesh as opposed to those who deny it ( 1 John 4:2). That may define falsehood; but it is equally true that a church can be dead and lose its "candlestick" ( Rev. 2:5) so that as the Ephesians did; have all the right words but lose any effective power for change.

    Briefly; worship must contain the truth reflecting God's character and unchanging attributes as well as express worship with all of the soul; body and mind ( Deut. 6:4-7)
  • Richard H Priday - 10 months ago
    Luke 12:3 and Matthew 12:36 are eye opening; as we are to give account for everything said and nothing is secret to God.

    I would like to say that I don't do any grumbling or complaining; but alas then I would be lying. Thankfully anything but blasphemy against the Spirit can be forgiven. As Jesus pointed out to the self-righteous Pharisees; these bad fruits come from within. And 2 Peter 2:21 makes it clear that it is better not to have known the truth than to become reprobate. The blood of Christ is our only hope as Jeremiah 17:9 shows how sick the heart is.

    There are Post Millennialists who dispute this; but I don't believe anyone from the church age who is a believer will be at the Great White Throne Judgment. I DO have the opinion that since the verse indicates that those who aren't in the Book of Life are going to the lake of fire; there is room for those who physically survive the Millennial period to go through that as saved people and hence be translated into heaven without dying.

    In any event; 1 Corinthians 3:15 indicates that one can make it into heaven and suffer loss. That would be analogous to losing rewards as Revelation 3:11 warns. Paul indicates how we run for the prize. Only a few gain great rewards; as would be indicated by those making 100 fold as opposed to 30 fold returns or others ( Mark 4:20). We should not be confined to just the saved and lost divisions when scripture gives us admonitions for certain crowns that those who persevere; are martyred or are pastors as well as other situations are given for faithfulness.

    Matthew 6:19-21 shows us that our treasure is to be in heaven. And that means that He must trust us with earthly riches as well ( Luke 16:10-12) as a test; a prerequisite for heavenly riches. Our brothers in Christ that we support in the ministry will be able to enjoy the harvest with us (see John 4:37). That and personal witnessing are components of fulfilling the Great Commission to finish well.
  • Richard H Priday - In Reply - 11 months ago
    Assurance of salvation (continued thoughts after interim sabbatical as it were)

    In short; I am not sure if arguing all points against the subject is worth it; as it likely won't change any minds. I will submit that some issues are a reward issue; as not all are going to get the prize as in Paul's example; and there are scriptures such as Revelation 3:11 stating that we can lose rewards. The basic idea i that Christ must succeed in bringing all His children to glory as that is part of the Father's plan which cannot be thwarted.

    As to another point; yes it is true I have heard from one friend of mine who is an evangelist how his own mother turned away from the faith the last few months of his life; and it is true that his mother in law heard the Gospel for many years during home Bible studies and still never came to saving faith. It is also true that judgment is harsher for those who become reprobate from the faith than those who never believed ( 2 Peter 2:21).

    THere are also things related to groups of people which must be carefully interpreted as opposed to individuals. That can skew things in the subject of Predestination; for example or even for those such as I that believe in the 5 points more or less can misinterpret something isolated.

    I plan to continue this series; and think verses that describe Christ dying for the sins of the whole world may be a good place to begin. After an extensive study in Hebrews on such apparent contraditions to my premise a couple years back I may go there next to explore some of the warnings there as well as the Gospels and being a branch cast into the fire.

    Whatever happens; we all should be searching the scriptures daily as the Bereans did. We still should fear God; knowing He is not just Savior; but Lord; King and Master of us all. Learning His ways is the most important thing; not just a bunch of facts about Him. The Word is our instruction manual but unless taken to heart it won't change us.
  • Jesse - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Dollyg1,

    This is what I can offer on 2 Peter 2:4:

    (Part 1)

    If God did this, then He's not slumbering, and He's not delaying about His judgment. And this is interesting because it shows a past tense. God did not spare angels that sinned but cast them down to hell. The word for hell is TARTARUS. And it is the Greek version of the term for Hades, where the unseen spirits go, in a compartment waiting for judgment. It's the only place where it's found in the bible.

    And so, he says that God in past, He cast these angels who sinned into TARTARUS, and delivered them into chains of darkness.

    Now it's the darkness that is the chains. How do you take spirits and put chains on them? It's a phrase that associates locking someone up so that they cannot escape.

    And to be reserved for judgment. So, if God did not spare the angels that sinned, how's He going to spare these that sinned?

    We will find out more about these angels when we get into Jude Verse 6. It's a one-chapter book. Both Jude and Peter run along the same lines and minister the same thing. And the evidence provides for us that Peter used some of Jude's warnings in order to have a unanimous unifying warning to all the churches.

    It's interesting, but in Jude Verse 6, when he talks about these same angels, he says these angels which kept not their first estate, that is, the angels that rebelled against God with Satan, but left their own habitation, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

    So, these are angels who had sinned and had left their first estate. Many believe that these are the angels that brought on the evil that forced God to bring the flood, the demonic forces that are mentioned in Genesis Chapter 6.

    But it is interesting that it is well known amongst the apostles and amongst the early church that there were angels who had sinned.
  • Dollyg1 - 1 year ago
    looking for comments about 2 peter 2:4
  • Dollyg1 - 1 year ago
    What does 2 Peter 2:4 means? If God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be remembered unto judgment; mean?
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Amen Brother Jesse.

    But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

    And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 2 Peter 2:1-2

    That's something important to remember, especially for me. It tells me I shouldn't get so worked up.

    Thanks and God bless.
  • Ronald Whittemore - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Dear Ruby Lea Read,

    The Bible is God's gift to us, a book of great multiplicity! It incorporates history, law, types and symbols, poetry, promises, devotion, doctrine, parables, and prophecy, the Message. The Bible is a collection of 66 books by about 40 authors over approximately 1600 years that were inspired by God (the word of God) that is now in almost all languages.

    Is the entire Bible prophecy? No, about one-third of it is. Are many to most of them fulfilled? Yes. Can we find prophecies in Genesis? Yes. Can we see the meaning of the historical reality that can be archaeologically proven and still see the message of how God was working His plan starting with the first Adam? Yes. Is Jesus the spirit of prophecy? No, it is our testimony of Jesus that is the spirit of prophecy.

    Were the people of Noah's time preached to? Yes. Some take this verse differently 1 Peter 3:18-20. My understanding the same Spirit that raised Jesus, through Noah preached redemption to the people for 120 years as he built the ark, 2 Peter 2:5 the flood took all the ungodly but the eight. Jesus did not while He was in the tomb preach to the dead, if that was the case why only those who died in the flood?

    Angels are ministers but they do not preach the gospel they do not have a testimony because they do not understand it, 1 Peter 1:10-12. Regardless of the innovations in the world, it does not change and is not new, what was, is now, human nature has remained and always will remain the same.

    We must be led by the Holy Spirit of truth. We must know all has not been revealed and all answers will not be given. We are responsible and we will be held accountable, Rev. 20:15. We can get lost in prophecies and parables our own wisdom can shade the truth for truth is simple to understand even for a child in faith.

    Just a little.

    God bless,

    RLW
  • S Spencer - In Reply on Genesis 6 - 1 year ago
    "Cheryl.

    Origin of the Sethite View Continued.

    Part 7.

    6. New Testament Confirmations

    "In the mouths of two or three witnesses every word shall be established."20 In Biblical matters, it is essential to always compare Scripture with Scripture. The New Testament confirmations in Jude and 2 Peter are impossible to ignore.21

    For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell [Tartarus], and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 2 Peter 2:4-5

    Peter's comments even establishes the time of the fall of these angels to the days of the Flood of Noah.

    Even Peter's vocabulary is provocative. Peter uses the term Tartarus, here translated "hell." This is the only place that this Greek term appears in the Bible. Tartarus is a Greek term for "dark abode of woe"; "the pit of darkness in the unseen world." As used in Homer's Iliad, it is "...as far beneath hades as the earth is below heaven."22 In Greek mythology, some of the demigods, Chronos and the rebel Titans, were said to have rebelled against their father, Uranus, and after a prolonged contest they were defeated by Zeus and were condemned into Tartarus.

    The Epistle of Jude23 also alludes to the strange episodes when these "alien" creatures intruded themselves into the human reproductive process:

    And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Jude 6,7

    See Part 8.
  • Ronald Whittemore - In Reply on Genesis 6 - 1 year ago
    Hi Cheryl,

    This is a tough scripture, the sons of God and the daughters of men. Some consider the sons of God to be the line of Seth and the daughters of men the line of Cain. Then if we throw in what Jesus said in Matt. 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven, wow.

    There is no need for angels in heaven to marry, they are immortal, and no need to reproduce as we will be after the resurrection in the kingdom on the new earth. Angels are called sons of God in Hebrew b'nai Elohim in Job 1:6 Job 2:1 Job 38:7.

    Through scripture angels take on human form, they eat and drink Gen. 18:7-8 Gen. 19:3 and physically wrestle with man, Gen. 32:24. If they eat and drink would that mean they have all the organs of man on earth? Scripture tells us there are devils/demons and fallen angels on earth along with Satan but there is another group of angels. These angels are different, they are locked in chains of darkness in the bottomless pit until judgment. 2 Peter 2:4-7 Jude 1:6-7. We see in Rev. 9:11 this pit has a king, and this is where Satan will be locked up for 1000 years.

    They left their first estate, heaven and in 2 Peter and Jude it says making them an example, (going after strange flesh), they corrupted God's creation Gen. 6:5-7. Even though there are fallen angels roaming the earth this set of angels God made an example to the others they will be locked in chains of darkness until judgment. We see the devils in Mark 5:9-10 were in fear Jesus might cast them down to the bottomless pit.

    We see that this happened again after the flood, Gen. 6:4 "and also after." The description in scripture is clear these are not just tall people. 2 Samuel 21:16 Joshua 12:4 Numbers 13:33 Deuteronomy 2:19-21 Deuteronomy 20:17 Amos 2:9. This is just a small amount of information but may it will help in your study.

    God bless,

    RLW
  • Richard H Priday - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Covenants part 3

    The basic situation in this world is that man is under the bondage of the law ( Romans 3:19-20; also see Galatians). Therefore; the universal application of the old covenant of works essentially is expected for all who wish to come to the one true faith. Christ; of course has allowed us to be "grafted in" to the promises of Israel. We see this in the second half of Romans 13.

    We have been called and chosen to be God's children. Nonetheless; we are just as required to follow the stipulations of Christ; namely loving God and obeying His commandments. ( John 14:21). Our love; of course only comes from the Lord; as any who love the law of God ( Psalm 119). The flesh abhors the law as it cannot obey it.

    The church therefore; once again doesn't sign any paperwork with God but is held accountable to God's terms for calling themselves a believer. Greater punishment for those who have knowledge of the law is seen in Matthew 11:21 and the following verses. This is why churches that want signed agreements as to membership requirements aren't a failsafe method. God isn't fooled by those who say "Lord, Lord" but don't do what He says. ( Luke 6:46). God knows man's heart and that is what He gets to the bottom of in terms of man's attitudes and actions which is the focus of the New Testament and new covenant as the Lord Himself explained and of course is further discussed in the Epistles. We should be careful not to call ourselves Christians if we are not; it is better not to know the truth than to follow Christ in this way ( 2 Peter 2:21). We see the two classes of people who are either unbelievers or reprobate in many scriptures. More on that later.
  • Richard H Priday on Psalms 77 - 1 year ago
    Psalm 77.

    This Psalm seems to indicate illness of Asaph much like in David's Psalms (particularly in verses 9 through 10); but also discusses the works of old when Moses led his people by God's help from verse 11 through the end of the Psalm. Certainly; we could see some themes intersecting both his personal situation and the national one which reflects writings such as Lamentations which describes the horrors of God's judgment during the Babylonian invasion and subsequent captivity with the starvation of the people in particular.

    The "days of old" in verse 5 also could be used in a broader sense to future time periods such as the intertestamental period. There was also the time of the Judges when generally there wasn't much organized worship and or righteous kings. Whether past reflections or future prophecy it is clear that there have been repeated patterns of deliverance and temporary obedience followed by long periods of decline and then another brief burst of repentance among the people. We could certainly find some similarity in the dispensation of the church age when things started off with a "bang"; then there were long periods of time in the Middle Ages and of course in recent years when there was great decay overall in the Body of Christ.

    We can look to "righteous Lot" ( 2 Peter 2:7) as an example of a sort of half hearted righteous man who sort of was saved through the fire in a literal and figurative sense.

    The fact that God uses all things for our good including the terrible judgments of the end times certainly doesn't diminsh from the suffering of God's people which is particularly intense when foreknowledge of such events makes keeping silent being like fire in his bones ( Jeremiah 20:9). God Himself is also pained as the book of Hosea states in judgment of Ephriam in chapter 11 verses 8-11. The prophets would feel this pain as the Spirit moved them. Again this shows Asaph was prophetic even though he is only found in Psalms.
  • Richard H Priday - In Reply - 1 year ago
    The rebellion led to the "anointed cherub" ( Ezekiel 28:14) and his musical gifting in heaven to be removed from his place of authority as we also see in Isaiah 14. He would have been out of the heavenly worship crew at that point pisitionally. Ezekiel 28:16 then talks about rade and violence resulting from what could be a period of time when spiritual beings roamed the earth beteeen the time of Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. This is a controversial topic; what we can say is that there were further punishments when the Nephilim before and after the flood had relations and offspring with women they chose ( Gen. 6:4). They certainly also caused "men of renown" to cause violence and God had to wipe all out except for Noah and his family.

    Satan's world although confined to controling the earth apparently also still involved and perhaps still does heavenly meetings with other demons (see Job 1 and 2). These were also involved with David's sin ( 1 Chron. 21:1) as well as lying words in the false prophets (in that case an unknown demonic entity caused this) ( 1 Kings 22:21-23). The last giant recorded was Goliath; and the Nephilim are said to be under the earth in Tartarus or the bottomless pit ( 2 Peter 2:4). The next thing taken froom Satan was the power of death in that all men were in a part of Sheol; but the "good" or pleasant part (Abraham's bosom) Luke 16:22 was removed when Christ went down into the earth after the Crucifixion and captivity was made captive ( Eph. 4:8). Now those absent from the body are present with the Lord; i.e. they go straight to the heavenly throne room. ( 2 Cor. 5:6). Finally; at the midpoint of the Trib. Satan is permanently taken from any access to heaven and cast to earth. It seems all those "powers of the air" or other demons are cast down from space ( Eph 2:2) also see Rev. 12:4. After the Trib he is confined himself to the bottomless pit (see Rev. 20); then in the end of Revelation to the lake of fire joining Antichrist/False Prophet.
  • Chris - In Reply on Genesis 9 - 1 year ago
    Hello Ricardo. We are not told about the years it took for the Ark's construction, but from what information we're given, we can make a rough guess. In Genesis 6:3, God declared His sorrow that mankind had become so evil that God's Spirit would no longer "strive" (in Hebrew, the sense of pleading & continual judgement) with mankind. So from that time, God had given man 120 years of existence before being wiped out. This extra time may be for man to come to his senses, repent & turn from his wicked ways, but certainly for Noah's witness & preaching of man's destruction ( 2 Peter 2:5) to them, as well as for the building of the ark in preparation for the saving of the righteous ones.

    Those who have calculated Noah's age & the birth of his sons & their marriages, believe that it may have taken between 55 to 75 years (maybe even more), for the ark's construction, plus the gathering of the animals & their feed. We're not told of those involved in its construction: certainly Noah & his sons, but there also may be others: unbelieving men (craftsmen) yet needing to earn a living by assisting in this mysterious build. Special tools & expertise would be required for the cutting & shaping of the wood & other necessary parts of this vessel.

    No mention is made of saving any fish/sea creatures, so I assume that they continued in their state in the sea, whereas all, but the specified land & flying animals that went into the Ark, perished.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Hi David.

    I understand what you are saying and agree. The invitation goes out to the whole world as mentioned in 1 John 2:2 "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. The thing is many will not come, many will travel the wide gate as mentioned in Mathews 7:13. "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: "MANY WILL BE DECEIVED"

    God knows who will come to him being he is omniscient; he is all-knowing in the sense that he is aware of the past present and future as he stands outside of time looking in.

    I believe you see an example of this in Numbers 16:5 "And he spake unto Korah and unto all his company, saying, even to morrow the LORD will shew who are his, and who is holy; and will cause him to come near unto him: even him whom he hath chosen will he cause to come near unto him.

    "The knowing comes before the choosing"

    WHEN IT COMES TO BACKSLIDING.

    We can look at the prodigal son in Luke 15:11-32 and those described as the dogs and pigs in 2 Peter 2:9-22.

    The prodigal son and the pigs went back home!

    THE PRODIGAL SON BACK TO HIS FATHERS HOUSE, and the dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

    The son went the way of the world but he never lost his sonship, a lost child of God will always be found by the great shepherd!

    He will return or he NEVER was a child of God.

    Those described in 2 Peter 2:9-22 returned back to the world because they never were sheep.

    You can "profess" Christ and go through all the motions and great deeds all your life and never have Christ and be told depart from me I never knew you. Mathews 7:21-23.

    God bless.
  • Adam - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Hi David, I was wondering how you would explain that and reconcile what the Bible says with your belief.

    These verses are in context and contradict what you are claiming, but even though they're in context and you just click or hover over it to read the whole chapter or book you just dismissed it as not being in context.

    I noticed your response didn't have any Bible verses supporting your view.

    I believe in and stand by Jesus's words. It sounds like you're accusing Jesus of being about "works." You do so at your own risk. I will not be ashamed for believing in what Jesus says, even if people use all kinds of tricks to attack.

    Jesus: "If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15

    You: No, don't obey, because that's works.

    Is that really your position that it's "bad" to obey Jesus, and "good" to not obey Jesus?

    If so, that sounds exactly like something satan would say. Such a clever deception to get people to believe its somehow bad to do good and good to do bad. As if God wants people to disobey Him!?

    Also I noticed you used the same straw man argument everyone else has been taught to use that if you want to follow Jesus then automatically you're trying to work towards heaven and there's no other possibility. I already said we're saved by grace, which seemed to be ignored. Of course I already answered this fallacy in advance, but maybe you didn't read it or did and claimed this fallacy anyway. Anyway, I feel a moral obligation to counter the lies on here and anyone claiming that its bad to follow and bad to obey Jesus is just is not speaking the truth. The Bible warns Christians of this throughout scripture.

    Matthew 7:21-23

    Hebrews 10:26

    Hebrews 6:4-6

    James 2:14-26

    Matthew 12:31-32

    Romans 14:12

    1 Peter 1:5

    1 Cor 9:24-27

    2 Peter 3:17

    Luke 8:5-18

    1 Timothy 4:1

    2 Peter 2:20-22

    Hebrews 3:12

    Galatians 5:4

    1 Corinthians 15:2-8
  • Ronald Whittemore - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Hey Lee1960,

    You are right, this is hard to understand so we need not be dogmatic but humble. The sons of God are in the OT only 5 times Gen. 6:2, 5 Job 1:6 Job 2:6 Job 38:7, and Daniel 3:25. The times in Job and Daniel are clearly angelic beings, so how do we take the meaning in Gen. 6. It says, "when the sons of God saw daughters of men", The Hebrew word for men here is h-'-m/adam meaning mankind. So, is this distinguishing a difference in the sons of adam/men?

    There are words that we may overlook, "and also after that". We see giants/Nephilim after the flood. 2 Sam. 21:16 Joshua 12:4 Num. 13:33 Deut. 2:19-21 Deut. 20:17 Amos 2:9 and more. Are there any NT scriptures that speak to this?

    2 Peter 2:4-6 and Jude 1:6-7 both are talking about angels who sinned and "which kept not their first estate but left their own habitation", the Greek word is used only two times translated habitation is oiktrion, the other place was in 2 Cor 5:2 the word house. Peter and Jude both compare what these angels did the same as in Sodom and Gomorrah, strange flesh.

    There are fallen angels along with Satan who are active on the earth today and still have access to heaven, but these angels did something even worse because God made an example of them and locked them in chains of darkness in the bottomless pit, until judgment. I do not know of any man in the OT who was ever called or referred to as son of God, I may have overlooked it, but my understanding is Nephilim came from these angels that God locked up.

    God bless,

    RLW
  • S Spencer - 1 year ago
    For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 1 Peter 4:17.

    Often we speak of a revival, sometimes revival seems it is what the church needs rather than the nation. The nation is doing what nations do.

    The church is set apart and is to be light to ALL the world/nations.

    Here's what I observed, Some seems to minister to draw people to themselves.

    They are thinking they are that light and rightfully so. But what is you/light supposed to shine on? Who's in the midst of the candlesticks? Jesus!

    Today we see people "But not everyone" shine light upon themselves. ( Notice I didn't say "the light.)

    Is that an oil filled light?

    Can there be a revival in this way?

    I'm sure we can agree on this matter, The question is "DO I DO THIS?" We should ask ourselves.

    Here is also what we should ask ourselves.

    Does this glorify the Lord?

    Am I doing this by the Spirit of God or the lust of the flesh?

    Is it the Lords glory I am seeking?

    Is this moved by the Spirit?

    If Gods spirit resides in you you should know!

    Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

    And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. John 12:31-32.

    HOW DOES THE WORLD SEE US?

    Boy does this matter!

    Acts 2:44-47 ?

    John 13:35 ?

    Here is just a few things that would hender these 2 verses?

    Certainly Leaven and the tares plays a role.

    When the world look at us from the outside they see some of their own.

    Pride by the work of their own hands.

    Materialism.

    Racism.

    Ect.ect.

    We also get along worse than them considering we are supposed to be led by the Spirit.

    Jude 1:4

    Hebrews 5:12-14.

    2 Peter 2:10-15.

    This is why everything we do should be what is (caused) by the Holyspirit.

    Don't let pride keep you from your purpose and proper place.

    "Following Jesus and shining you light on Him!!

    Examine ourselves.

    God bless.


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