There is no need to apologize you have not stirred up anything, I agree with you on 2 Peter 1:20-21 Scripture, the word of God is not the author's or prophet's interpretation or understanding of what God relayed to them through the Holy Spirit. Every word in Scripture is from God, not man, and can be cherished and trusted.
My understanding of a discussion is two or more people in respect and love share their understanding of a subject. If someone asks a question, they are asking for the understanding of the subject of someone else to reach a decision or to exchange understandings asked of the person.
Truth is only given to us through the Spirit of Truth that Jesus sends to us from the Father, which proceedeth from the Father, John 15:26. You may see the earth was destroyed by the sin of Satan between Gen. 1:1 and 1:2, my understanding that produces two beginnings of the earth and the universe as Scripture tells us in Genesis 1. God has no beginning, the angels had a beginning, and the angels saw and shouted for joy at the beginning of this earth and universe Job 38. We may not agree on some points but that is ok.
We aa Christians should examine ourselves, "Not by what we do or by what we don't do or what we know, But by Who we have! Christ!
I'd we have Christ Spirit the inside of our vessels will be cleansed.
Then we can wash one another feet.
( Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:4-8.
2 Peter 1:20 No PROPHECY of the scripture is (in and of itself it's) OWN private interpretation.
2 Corinthians 13:1 ...in the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established .....
Genesis 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, ye shall surely not DIE:
Genesis 3:5 FOR GOD DOTH KNOW that in the day you thereof, then your EYES SHALL BE OPENED, and ye shall be as gods, KNOWING GOOD and EVIL.
This is ALL PROPHECY.
Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God SAID, Behold, the man HAS BECOME AS ONE OF US, to KNOW good and evil.....
The FRUIT was KNOWLEDGE of good and evil, the KNOWLEDGE of gods.
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not WRITTEN in your LAW, ye are gods
John 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the WORD the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken.
Psalms 82:6
Deuteronomy 10:17 your God is a God of gods, and Lord of Lords ....
Psalms 136:6 Give thanks unto the God of gods, for his mercy endureth for ever.
Now, Eve was a prophecy of the coming bride of Christ by HIS RESURRECTION, and what happened she was resurrected with her husband to never DIE.
The gift of God is eternal life.
God can even use Satan to speak prophecy, what did Satan say, Ye shall never DIE.
Luke 20:36 Neither can THEY DIE ANYMORE, Adam (Christ) took of the fruit and did eat with his wife and Christ and his wife (creation) DIED, and the spirit of the Father RAISED them as ONE FLESH), for they are equal unto the angels, and are the children of God, being the CHILDREN of the RESURRECTION.
Philippians 2:5 Let this MIND BE IN YOU, which also was in Christ Jesus:
Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, though it not robbery to be equal with God.
For the letter "M" in our study of Who God is I choose:
"MAJESTIC"
"O, LORD, our LORD, how excellent (majestic) is Your name in all the earth." Ps. 8:1,9
"For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses to His majesty." 2 Peter 1:16-17
God dwells in inaccessible light ( 1 Tim. 6:16). So how can we know Him or describe what He is. We cannot do so perfectly because there are aspects of God that we may never be able to know, understand, or comprehend. There will eternally be some things God will not reveal about Himself to us because of His transcendent nature. He is above and beyond, distinct and separate from His creation. He is more infinitely more unlike humans than He is similar. This is one aspect of His majesty, and one that is so very hard for us to find words to express His majesty truly. Because He is limitless and infinite and perfect in all of His ways-and because we are limited, finite, and lack the fullness of perfection that God possesses, even in our resurrected and glorious state, though sinless and brought to the fullness of perfect humanity (to the completion of what God willed), we will never be able to know God completely. But we will still be both satisfied and eternally seeking to discover Him more truly and fully.
When we speak about the Majesty of God, it encompasses many aspects of Who He is essentially.
It speaks to His awesome splendor, unconquerable authority, unsurpassing beauty, penultimate greatness, indominable power, absolute sovereignty, and His unchallengeable superiority. WOW! When we speak of God's glory, it is an umbrella term that encompasses all of these aspects of God's Being.
His majesty is what we praise of Him. It evokes us to worship Him. It causes unbelievers to fear Him. It moves people to revere Him. It motivates us to serve Him.
There is really so much to speak about concerning God's majesty. see pt. 2
Hello friend. I am in agreement with what Adam has just shared with you: that the mention of Mohd or even an allusion to him is nowhere found in this verse, or indeed anywhere in the Bible.
You appear to be someone who is interested in what the Bible has to say to us, even considering the rich heritage that both the descendants of Isaac & Ishmael share from the olden days. In your consideration of this prophetical Book of Isaiah, we need to remember that this book & indeed all the Bible Books are written in an historical & chronological manner. Unlike the Qur'an, where the writings are purportedly made from isolated revelations received over a period of time, the Books of the Bible were written by men moved by God's Spirit ( 2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:21), but were given in a systematic historical way. So when we take a verse or portion of the Bible to teach or defend a belief, then we must look at the whole - or else, our understanding will be skewed & we will be led into error.
Since you're looking at the prophecies in Isaiah, if you would care to begin at Isaiah 13:1 right through to Isaiah 23:18, and you will notice a series of denunciations by God against particular lands/nations. Through his prophet Isaiah, God denounces Babylon, Philistia, Moab, Damascus, Ethopia, Egypt, Babylon (again), Edom, Arabia (the part you're referring to), Jerusalem, & Tyre. So when you refer to Isaiah 21:13, the specific passage is from Isaiah 21:13-17, where God's Judgement is found in verse 16, that "within a year, according to the years of an hireling, and all the glory of Kedar shall fail". Even though Kedar was a powerful Arabian tribe, the reference here are to all connected to her. All these suffered judgement under God's Hand.
But at the appointed time, God sent forth His Son Jesus, the One Who came to receive our judgement & punishment upon Himself (for our sins). Without Him we would all be condemned, but those who believed on Him would receive forgiveness ( John 1:11,12).
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2 Peter 2:20. They had the knowledge of the Lord and Savior; they were saved and had escaped the pollutions/sins of the world. Can we escape sin outside of Christ? They choose to go back to a life of habitual, intentional, and willful sin. And their punishment will be worse, Luke 12:47-48.
Galatians 6:9 This to me is obedience, It says unless we faint, to me that is to give up, quit, intentionally turn away, we reap life everlasting. Colossians 1:23 "If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel". If we continue that is a choice, we must make that is not given that is our obedience.
Jude 1:21 We are to keep ourselves, the Holy Spirit helps us, but this is something we do and if we do, He will keep us from falling. 2 Peter 1:10 If we do, it is not done for us, we have been given but it is up to us to obey and do, if they have forgotten they had to know it to forget it. If We Do!!! we shall never fall. Hebrews 6:13-16 What Abraham did, in his faith, he waited for a long time he endured. He did not faint or grow weary or turn his back to God, the evidence of his faith, just like when he drew back the knife.
This is not about a Christian who is struggling and battling sin regardless of how long they struggle they are still in the race and if they repent and return in the light will be forgiven and in the grace of God. As David said restore unto me the joy of thy salvation, Psalms 51:12. We all are in a battle with our flesh and sin daily. We can lose the joy of salvation and if we come under repentance, we will still be in God's grace but without repentance, we will be cut off.
I am referring to the scriptures that warn those who were saved in the faith that intentionally choose, they knowingly live a sinful lifestyle. They call what is wrong right and sin is ok. They justify and condone sin, much of what we see today, people who were saved but now say sin is okay, I will not list things I'm sure you see it too, what used to be condemned is now ok and accepted, Isaiah 5:20. After we are justified if we do not abide in Jesus if we do not live a life of repentance and obedience, we will be outside of the grace of God.
When Jesus died on the cross, He paid for every sin that the human race will ever commit, from Adam's first sin until the last sin that will be committed. Our sins before we were born again were forgiven, 2 Peter 1:9. Our sins are not forgiven before we commit them, now or in the future. We all will sin but we do not become unsaved. If we confess, He is faithful and just to forgive us and cleanse us.
Our life we live is We will be forgiven, not we have been forgiven that is why we should not ignore the Spirit's loving work. Hey, don't do that, and if we slip up, we repent for our disobedience. To me that is a life of repentance and obedience, not works for salvation it is the evidence of our faith. A person can stop doing and lose, walk away, or forfeit, their gift of salvation.
1 Timothy 4:1 Some shall depart from the faith, these are Christians, and you have to be a part of it to depart from it. The process of salvation will not be complete until the return of Jesus and we are resurrected and glorified in our immortal bodies.
Thank you, brother, for this discussion may we grow in faith and understanding.
(According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness,) through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
(Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.)
Paul lists what's added in 2 Peter 1:5-7. "And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, and to virtue knowledge.
And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness.
And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
Verse 8!
"FOR IF THESE THINGS BE IN YOU", and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
The contrary to "these things being in you" is seen in is verse 9.
BUT HE THAT LACKETH THESE THINGS IS BLIND, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
In verse 10 Paul is telling us to "give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
He is saying if according to Christ divine power hath he given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, and whereby we are given exceeding great and precious promises and by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. " Make your calling and election sure: for "IF YOU ARE DOING THESE THINGS", ye shall never fall.
Hebrews 6:13-16.
When God performed this covenant with Abraham, he put Abraham to sleep. IT WAS UNCONDITIONAL!
Genesis 15:1-12.
Matthew 24:13.
This is to take place during the great tribulation period.
However, I'm not going to get into that on this thread.
This is how I interpret those verses, perhaps some can help and improve on this.
God is giving. He gives of Himself within the Godhead in relationship with the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They give each other love, and, and harmony, and glory in an eternal way. He gives to creation life and beauty and provision for physical needs, and salvation from sin for those elected. He promised to give good gifts to His children when they ask. Luke 11:13.
He gives us all we need for life and godliness: 2 Peter 1:3
"According as His divine power hath given unto all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him (Jesus) who hath called us to glory and virtue."
God even gives to the unbelievers and the believers alike, making the sun to shine on both, giving rain in season, causing crops to grow for a harvest.
So I think it is good to be content in all things, because all good things comes from His hands. We also should cultivate gratitude to Him for all we receive each day from Him. I try to do this more and more. He deserves our gratitude and for us to have thankful hearts before Him.
This we must do for the rest of our lives, to live in repentance and obedience walking in the Spirit, not in this world. We must include these scriptures that show during our life and be sanctified one can fail, fall away whatever we want to call it, Heb. 3:12-131 John 1:72 Peter 2:20 we are told to keep ourselves Jude 21 If we hold fast the confidence, Heb. 3:6 If we faint not, Gal. 6:9 If ye continue in the faith, Col. 1:23 If ye do these things, 2 Peter 1:10, Paul said this about himself 1 Cor. 9:25-27.
Do we err when we say I was saved on whatever date when we should say my salvation started and I was justified made righteous, and I am now walking in the Spirit of God looking for the day I will be glorified when My Savior Jesus Christ returns and I will be like Him and as long as I breathe I will continue to walk in the Spirit of God as I am sanctified to be made perfect as My Lord Jesus is perfect? We must, every day be obedient and ask for forgiveness and guidance to keep going for the goal.
When are we saved is it when we accept Jesus as our Savior, if then do we overlook we must endure until the end. We must have the earnest/downpayment of the Spirit 2 Cor. 5:5, a downpayment for the final purchase when Jesus returns to claim His elect. We must know and realize that for whom the downpayment has been placed it must be intact when Jesus returns. We must endure until the end. Matt. 10:22Matt. 24:13John 6:27 As Abraham Heb. 6:13-16James 1:12
I wish I could explain this better; I feel I have come up short, but I feel those who believe when walking down the aisle and confess they believe in Jesus they have a nonrefundable ticket to eternity, that is wrong.
Thank you, I did use 1 Cor. 9:25-27 there are many other scriptures on this but I try to keep my posts as short as I can. I agree the longer we walk in the Spirit the stronger our faith becomes. Our repentance and our obedience keep us in a relationship through the Spirit of God with Jesus and through this faith given to us by God it becomes easier to say no to the temptations that come against us.
Our obedience and our conscience reveal who we are servants to, and we must stay obedient unto righteousness, Rom. 6:16. Nothing can separate us from the love of Christ, and as you said only sin separates us from God that is why if we fail to stay repentant and obedient, we fall out of His mercy and grace and our sins will no longer be covered and if we do not repent and return, we will perish and pay the penalty. My understanding is that is our choice, many are called few are chosen, Matt. 22:14.
If someone wants to do a word study that will be worth the time it would be on the little word if. If is a little word but is important, it expresses directly to our responsibility to God. If we hold fast the confidence, Heb. 3:6 If we faint not, Gal. 6:9 If ye continue in the faith, Col. 1:23 If ye do these things, 2 Peter 1:10 If we say that we have no sin, 1 John 1:8, many many more.
( 2 Pet 1:5-10) These verses are (clearly) prophecy written for us today. The first verse says ( 2 Pet 1:1) "Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, TO THEM THAT HAVE OBTAINED LIKE PRECIOUS FAITH with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ"
This is prophecy for us today! End quote.
I believe to "those that have obtained" is present tense. ( local.)
Quoting you again.
2 Pet 1:15
"Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease (to have these things always in remembrance)
TO HAVE THESE THINGS ALWAYS! This is prophecy for us today. End quote.
I see this as Peter is writing "to them that have obtained" (In that day) When Peter die he is telling them not to forget what he told them in the previous verses.
"be partakers of the divine nature ect...
Let's look at 2 Peter 1:18
"And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount."
THEY WERE EYE WHITNESSES!
But yet Peter says "We have also a more sure word of prophecy;
PETER IS TALKING ABOUT WHAT IS IN HIS POSSESSION! And what energized those prophets who wrote the prophecies. THE HOLYSPIRIT. Not the will of man with his private interpretation.
( Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
For the prophecy came NOT IN OLD TIME by the will of man: but holy men of God spake AS THEY were moved by the Holy Ghost.)
2 Peter 1:20-21.
"Not in old time" puts the time that the group (THEY) in the OT.
That's all I have Jimbob.
I believe you and Brother Chris have covered a great length on this and he's more adequate to debate you on this topic than I am.
Without reading all of what you and Chris discussed, I've looked over what you have given me.
I believe the hang up is a portion of verse 15 you singled out. ( TO HAVE THESE THINGS ALWAYS IN REMEMBRANCE)
So I tracked backwards to see what " These things" are, that Peter is talking about. Start at verse 13.
Here's how that went.
2 Peter 1:13 Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in REMEMBRANCE;
2 Peter 1:12Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in REMEMBRANCE OF THESE THINGS,
2 Peter 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do THESE THINGS, ye shall never fall:
2 Peter 1:9. But he that lacketh THESE THINGS....
2 Peter 1:8. For if THESE THINGS be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
If we keep on backtracking we come to what these things are in verses five through verse seven. I will highlight them with caps.
2 Peter 1:5-7.
And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith VIRTUE; and to virtue KNOWLEDGE;
And to knowledge TEMPERANCE; and to temperance PATIENCE; and to patience GODLINESS;
And to godliness BROTHERLY KINDNESS; and to brotherly kindness CHARITY.
(For if THESE THINGS be in you), and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jimbob I'm not sure if I grasp you but it seems Peter is talking about what accompanies salvation.
God has given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: that by these we might be partakers of the divine nature,
verses 3 and 4.
This doesn't seem to be talking about any writings unless I am missing your point.
2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. I also believe this clearly refers to the OT prophets & writers that were inspired & moved by God's Spirit to pen these holy words.
The example you have given in these two Scriptures: Genesis 24:16 and Isaiah 7:14
. "Virgin" is in both references as given by the KJB translators, yet in Hebrew the words are different: the first one is 'bethulah' & the other 'almah'. Why did the translators not give different English words for each of those verses, but just used 'virgin'?
And also, Giannis explanation; "The Hbr should be translated as " young woman", not "virgin", that is why there is a difference from Genesis 24:16. This is how it is always written in the Hebrew Bibles (Tanakh).
I have the word in the Hebrew as 'almah'. (but dogmatic). meaning "Virgin. As Giannis said, Matthew follows the Septuagint text of the Old Testament, and in the Septuagint, it is written "the virgin."
Some has used this "SO CALLED DISCREPENCY" to attack the virgin birth and a person like me wouldn't know how to defend it being that I don't know Hebrew or Greek outside of helps and research.
So, that causes me to leave off the translations drama and go to the prophet and prophecy in Isaiah 7:14 and giving thought to what 2 Peter 1:21 is saying and its meaning.
In Isaiah 7:11 the Lord prompts Ahaz to "Ask thee a sign of the LORD thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above.
Vs 13 God draws the attention to the house of David.
Vs 14 God gives them a sign. "Therefore, the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son.
This wouldn't be much of a sign if it was a mere young woman. However, it draws one's attention if it is a virgin being mentioned.
God's truth can be found even if the translation or our ability to translate is imperfect.
Just referring to a couple of your points Jimbob. 2 Peter 1:20. When Peter declared this Truth to his readers, the prophecies 'of old' were written within the Torah, the Prophets, & the Writings. These prophecies were available to all, though with high illiteracy levels, it's likely that the Scriptures were read, understood & explained to the common man mostly by students of the Word.
So what Peter is stating in this verse, is that the prophecies of old, which no doubt included the aspects of Jesus' coming & Sacrifice, were true revelations from God to His appointed. These revelations were not of private interpretation (Gk. unloosing, unpacking): they weren't written as from man's understanding of them nor from man's determination, but by the 'moving of the Holy Spirit upon them'.
So the point in these verses is not of "how many could have read those words compared to those being read today in the KJB", but from where did those words find their source, their inspiration & their validity to those then & now. Nothing at all pointing to the KJB in these verses or any of the verses you've cited now & previously as supposedly referring to the KJB as one having "pure words...purified seven times". Onto Page 2.
It would be interesting Jimbob, to learn how many Bible-reading, Bible-believing Christians actually understand 2 Peter 1:19-21 as you do. Not speaking for others, & having addressed this point with you before, I reiterate that the "holy men of God" clearly refers to the OT prophets & writers that were inspired & moved by God's Spirit to pen these holy words. Nothing at all to do with the KJB translators or any translation work, simply because of context of the passage & the timeline (i.e. between the first recording & then the translation work into other languages).
This important understanding shows us, that when even a slight deviation from the meaning of the text is taken, we can then justify many other things. No doubt the KJB translators were greatly helped by the Spirit & these men were diligent in their business, but there has to be differences in, say the English versions, to the original Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek texts. When texts are modified, omitted, or added to, then there are a number of reasons for that, chiefly that the 'older' manuscripts were being used in translation & not the more reliable later Textus Receptus (from which we get our KJB & some others). GBU.
John 1:1. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 Peter 1:20. Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
Acts 26:18. To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them, which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
Italicized words were words put in by the translators of the King James Bible. So sometimes when you translate something from one language, there is not a perfect translation, but rather a phrase. For example: "Consuegro" in Spanish translates to "your son or daughter's parent-in-law" in English. In this example they are referring to the parent-in-law, so the child's name would be italicized. It was just the way they had to translate for it to make sense or else we would have some weird verses. For example Isaiah 57:19 would say, "I create the fruit of the lips; Peace, peace to far off, and to near, saith the LORD; and will heal him." we know the context is talking about a "him," so they added the italicized words to help it make sense.
As far as the apocrypha goes, I do not believe it is equally inspired as scripture. Titus 1:2 says that God cannot lie. There are parts of the apocrypha that go against what the canonical KJV says which in turn make that part of the apocrypha false. In the translating of the KJV, the translators had many copies of the same scripture that said the same thing. Any that said something different were looked at and decided upon. If 9 out of 10 said one thing, they would ignore the 1. It makes sense as that would have been a misprinted or wrongly copied scroll of scripture. They were objective as possible as they translated. The apocrypha were all translated the same way, they were separate books so they did not compare them to the other books during translation. Later, they decided that they would not be accepted as they contradicted the other scriptures. If God cannot lie, then His word cannot lie. 2 Peter 1:21 tells us that God gave the writers what to write. meaning it was inspired. So since those books contradicted the others, they are clearly not of God.
The Axe laid to the Root of the Corrupt Tree ( 2 Peter 1:4)
THAT the true faith (the faith of the gospel, the faith of the elect, the faith which saves the sinner from sin, and makes him more than a conqueror over sin and the powers of darkness) is a belief in the nature of God; which belief giveth entrance into, fixeth in and causeth an abiding in that nature. Unbelief entereth into death, and fixeth in the death: faith giveth entrance into, and fixeth in the life. Faith is an ingrafting into the vine, a partaking of the nature of the vine, a sucking of the juice of life from the vine; which nothing is able to do but the faith, but the belief in the nature. And nothing can believe in the nature, but what is one with the nature. So then faith is not a believing the history of the scripture, or a believing and applying the promises, or a believing that Christ died for sinners in general, or for me in particular; for all this may be done by the unbelieving nature (like the Jew); but a uniting to the nature of God in Christ, which the unbeliever starts from, in the midst of his believing of these
The following are the fundamental rules of Bible interpretation that the God lays down:
Christ is the author of the Bible. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we behold his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John 1:1,14
...the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but Holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit 2 Peter 1:21
Christ spoke in parables (earthly stories with a spiritual meaning). But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples. Mark 4:34
We compare spiritual with spiritual. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 1 Corinthians 2:13
As we approach the end of the world, and Christ's return, God is unsealing truths that have been kept sealed until the time of the end. This is spoken of as a vision that will speak at the end and not lie.
Daniel 12:9-10 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
Habakkuk 2:2-3 And the LORD answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that he may run that readeth it. For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie:though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry.
The historical-grammatical method of interpretation is not found in the Bible. It seeks to discover the writer's intended meaning, customs of the times, and the writer's intended audience and thus fails to recognize that God is the author and that the whole Bible is written for us today.
I agree with your statement David, but I think we need to be more specific. I wont call you intoxicated like Frankie did, but I do believe that you are just ignorant to certain scriptures. By ignorant I'm using it as the Bible does in the sense of you just haven't been taught.
So the Bible is the FINAL authority in the Christian life ( 2 Peter 1:19). I agree with Frankie that you need the Holy Spirit to discern the things of God in His word. The Bible clearly states that in 1 Peter 1:11-12. The Bible also says that we need a preacher, because how can we hear without one ( Romans 10:14). So the Bible was given by the Holy Spirit/God and needs to be discerned through that, because the Bible is of no private interpretation ( 2 Peter 1:20-21). God had a specific meaning for each word and only He can tell us what that is.
I also believe what the Bible says in Acts 2:17 that in the last days people will prophesy, have dreams, and visions. If the Bible says it, then it's true. That being said, since the Bible is the final authority, if anything they say happened in the prophesy, dream, or vision that goes against the Bible, then it's a false dream.
Here's how to discern if they are truly a "prophet" in the sense of them prophesying, dreaming, and having visions:
1. Does it follow scripture ( 2 Peter 3:16)
2. Look at their fruits ( Matthew 7:15-20)
3. It doesn't breed confusion ( 1 Corinthians 14:29-33)
4. It is of the Holy Ghost/Jesus ( 1 Corinthians 12:1-3, John 16:13-15)
I hope this was a help to you and there is definitely more studying that can go into this, but that's about the summary of this.
I do wish you had spoken to my request of which of the two beliefs I asked you about. But I take it from you directing me back to the Scriptures that you believe that the Scriptures in their original autographs are strictly God's words, not those of men.
So, then, if this is true of your belief, then I gather that you believe that God dictated the words to the men to be written. Is this true?
2 Peter 1:21 "For the prophecy came not in old times by the will of man; but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit."
2 Timothy3:16 "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."
I believe what these verses declare, as I perceive that you do, too. I think there are two different stances on this topic. These are: whether God dictated His words in and through the Scripture writers or whether God guided these men through the Holy Spirit to write only what is true and sound words that accurately reflect what God wished to communicate to humanity through the writings of these men.
David, if you wish to respond back to this post, I would be happy for it. If you wish to let it lie, then that is fine, too.
"you don't know why I would bring up this matter, as it pertains to our discussion. When in Truth, it reaches to the very heart of it.
Going to the letter, in Hebrew or Greek etc; as you quoted & spoke from, comes from the traditions & teaching of man, the wisdom that's from below, earthy, which makes Mark 7:13, which sprang up in the Apostasy. Isa 55:8,9;
Whereas coming to the Spirit, our Teacher; The Word Rom 10:8; that comes Rom 10:17; within us, produces the fruit, the Word intended Isa 55;11; Isa 14:27;
Bringing this part of the conversation to a conclusion, by giving "the cause & effect of the learning from the letter, verses being taught by God Himself.
1Cor 2:10 which is freely & lavishly given unto us in Christ. Col 2:2,3; Proverbs 8:14;
You said; you don't subscribe to this type of application of sanctification ; citing verses with the word meaning; its plain to me that your faith is coming from books, & not our Teacher; who is Hebrews 12:2. Your trying to understand spiritual things by carnal means, Thus this faith you have is 2Timothy 3:7 Meaning; it will never bring one to the experiential knowledge of God; in Spirit & in Truth. Matt 11:27; For God is a Spirit & only by His Spirit is He manifested & known.
Jeremiah 31:33,34; New Covenant, he's prophesying, not that he partook of it, 1Peter 1:10; & yet he was cleansed & holy under the gospel of his dispensation 2 Peter 1:21; as many were Luke 1:5,6;
Again; what God requires of us, is to walk upright in the knowledge that He has given us.
Thank you for your kind apology, no offense taken, just a misunderstanding. Believe me, in this slow progressive work of sanctification, I've have had many misunderstanding & faltering, receiving His reproofs & admonishments, I've learnt Daniel 4:37; I love the way He gets to me. He always "hit the nail on the head" so to speak,& why? Daniel 2:22, Psalms 36:9;
you have experience Him in Spirit, Chris (in the car)
Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures
John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
Psalms 78:2 I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:
Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
Galatians 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Revelation 22:18,19 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
These are just a sampling of the many verses that speak about the scriptures, the Bible, the Word of God. They should be examined both in their immediate context and the context of the entire Bible if we are to come to Truth regarding the true nature of the Bible.
Starting from the Destruction of Jerusalem in 70 c.e.
until he comes. Then there's God's Wrath coming against Satan the Devil (the Dragon, Serpent REV. chapter 12), Wild beast (Authorities, Kings, HORNS chapter 17,18), and False Religion (Babylon the Great, Prostitute Revelation 17:1-6; Revelation 20:1,10)
Revelation 17 spoken in illustration then the angel explains
Revelation 18 spoken in illustration how powerful Babylon the great is (False Religion:The Great City)
Revelation 22 spoken partly in illustration and then true talk at the end
Rather it's believed or not, the scriptures (The law passed from Heaven Psalm 83:18) has spoken. 2 Peter 1:20,21
There is no need to apologize you have not stirred up anything, I agree with you on 2 Peter 1:20-21 Scripture, the word of God is not the author's or prophet's interpretation or understanding of what God relayed to them through the Holy Spirit. Every word in Scripture is from God, not man, and can be cherished and trusted.
My understanding of a discussion is two or more people in respect and love share their understanding of a subject. If someone asks a question, they are asking for the understanding of the subject of someone else to reach a decision or to exchange understandings asked of the person.
Truth is only given to us through the Spirit of Truth that Jesus sends to us from the Father, which proceedeth from the Father, John 15:26. You may see the earth was destroyed by the sin of Satan between Gen. 1:1 and 1:2, my understanding that produces two beginnings of the earth and the universe as Scripture tells us in Genesis 1. God has no beginning, the angels had a beginning, and the angels saw and shouted for joy at the beginning of this earth and universe Job 38. We may not agree on some points but that is ok.
God bless you, brother, be well.
RLW
That's what James 2:18 is saying.
We aa Christians should examine ourselves, "Not by what we do or by what we don't do or what we know, But by Who we have! Christ!
I'd we have Christ Spirit the inside of our vessels will be cleansed.
Then we can wash one another feet.
( Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:4-8.
God bless.
2 Peter 1:20 No PROPHECY of the scripture is (in and of itself it's) OWN private interpretation.
2 Corinthians 13:1 ...in the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established .....
Genesis 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, ye shall surely not DIE:
Genesis 3:5 FOR GOD DOTH KNOW that in the day you thereof, then your EYES SHALL BE OPENED, and ye shall be as gods, KNOWING GOOD and EVIL.
This is ALL PROPHECY.
Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God SAID, Behold, the man HAS BECOME AS ONE OF US, to KNOW good and evil.....
The FRUIT was KNOWLEDGE of good and evil, the KNOWLEDGE of gods.
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not WRITTEN in your LAW, ye are gods
John 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the WORD the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken.
Psalms 82:6
Deuteronomy 10:17 your God is a God of gods, and Lord of Lords ....
Psalms 136:6 Give thanks unto the God of gods, for his mercy endureth for ever.
Now, Eve was a prophecy of the coming bride of Christ by HIS RESURRECTION, and what happened she was resurrected with her husband to never DIE.
The gift of God is eternal life.
God can even use Satan to speak prophecy, what did Satan say, Ye shall never DIE.
Luke 20:36 Neither can THEY DIE ANYMORE, Adam (Christ) took of the fruit and did eat with his wife and Christ and his wife (creation) DIED, and the spirit of the Father RAISED them as ONE FLESH), for they are equal unto the angels, and are the children of God, being the CHILDREN of the RESURRECTION.
Philippians 2:5 Let this MIND BE IN YOU, which also was in Christ Jesus:
Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, though it not robbery to be equal with God.
God Bless YOU!
"MAJESTIC"
"O, LORD, our LORD, how excellent (majestic) is Your name in all the earth." Ps. 8:1,9
"For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses to His majesty." 2 Peter 1:16-17
God dwells in inaccessible light ( 1 Tim. 6:16). So how can we know Him or describe what He is. We cannot do so perfectly because there are aspects of God that we may never be able to know, understand, or comprehend. There will eternally be some things God will not reveal about Himself to us because of His transcendent nature. He is above and beyond, distinct and separate from His creation. He is more infinitely more unlike humans than He is similar. This is one aspect of His majesty, and one that is so very hard for us to find words to express His majesty truly. Because He is limitless and infinite and perfect in all of His ways-and because we are limited, finite, and lack the fullness of perfection that God possesses, even in our resurrected and glorious state, though sinless and brought to the fullness of perfect humanity (to the completion of what God willed), we will never be able to know God completely. But we will still be both satisfied and eternally seeking to discover Him more truly and fully.
When we speak about the Majesty of God, it encompasses many aspects of Who He is essentially.
It speaks to His awesome splendor, unconquerable authority, unsurpassing beauty, penultimate greatness, indominable power, absolute sovereignty, and His unchallengeable superiority. WOW! When we speak of God's glory, it is an umbrella term that encompasses all of these aspects of God's Being.
His majesty is what we praise of Him. It evokes us to worship Him. It causes unbelievers to fear Him. It moves people to revere Him. It motivates us to serve Him.
There is really so much to speak about concerning God's majesty. see pt. 2
You appear to be someone who is interested in what the Bible has to say to us, even considering the rich heritage that both the descendants of Isaac & Ishmael share from the olden days. In your consideration of this prophetical Book of Isaiah, we need to remember that this book & indeed all the Bible Books are written in an historical & chronological manner. Unlike the Qur'an, where the writings are purportedly made from isolated revelations received over a period of time, the Books of the Bible were written by men moved by God's Spirit ( 2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:21), but were given in a systematic historical way. So when we take a verse or portion of the Bible to teach or defend a belief, then we must look at the whole - or else, our understanding will be skewed & we will be led into error.
Since you're looking at the prophecies in Isaiah, if you would care to begin at Isaiah 13:1 right through to Isaiah 23:18, and you will notice a series of denunciations by God against particular lands/nations. Through his prophet Isaiah, God denounces Babylon, Philistia, Moab, Damascus, Ethopia, Egypt, Babylon (again), Edom, Arabia (the part you're referring to), Jerusalem, & Tyre. So when you refer to Isaiah 21:13, the specific passage is from Isaiah 21:13-17, where God's Judgement is found in verse 16, that "within a year, according to the years of an hireling, and all the glory of Kedar shall fail". Even though Kedar was a powerful Arabian tribe, the reference here are to all connected to her. All these suffered judgement under God's Hand.
But at the appointed time, God sent forth His Son Jesus, the One Who came to receive our judgement & punishment upon Himself (for our sins). Without Him we would all be condemned, but those who believed on Him would receive forgiveness ( John 1:11,12).
2 Peter 1:4
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Part four,
2 Peter 2:20. They had the knowledge of the Lord and Savior; they were saved and had escaped the pollutions/sins of the world. Can we escape sin outside of Christ? They choose to go back to a life of habitual, intentional, and willful sin. And their punishment will be worse, Luke 12:47-48.
Galatians 6:9 This to me is obedience, It says unless we faint, to me that is to give up, quit, intentionally turn away, we reap life everlasting. Colossians 1:23 "If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel". If we continue that is a choice, we must make that is not given that is our obedience.
Jude 1:21 We are to keep ourselves, the Holy Spirit helps us, but this is something we do and if we do, He will keep us from falling. 2 Peter 1:10 If we do, it is not done for us, we have been given but it is up to us to obey and do, if they have forgotten they had to know it to forget it. If We Do!!! we shall never fall. Hebrews 6:13-16 What Abraham did, in his faith, he waited for a long time he endured. He did not faint or grow weary or turn his back to God, the evidence of his faith, just like when he drew back the knife.
This is not about a Christian who is struggling and battling sin regardless of how long they struggle they are still in the race and if they repent and return in the light will be forgiven and in the grace of God. As David said restore unto me the joy of thy salvation, Psalms 51:12. We all are in a battle with our flesh and sin daily. We can lose the joy of salvation and if we come under repentance, we will still be in God's grace but without repentance, we will be cut off.
See part 5.
Part 5
I am referring to the scriptures that warn those who were saved in the faith that intentionally choose, they knowingly live a sinful lifestyle. They call what is wrong right and sin is ok. They justify and condone sin, much of what we see today, people who were saved but now say sin is okay, I will not list things I'm sure you see it too, what used to be condemned is now ok and accepted, Isaiah 5:20. After we are justified if we do not abide in Jesus if we do not live a life of repentance and obedience, we will be outside of the grace of God.
When Jesus died on the cross, He paid for every sin that the human race will ever commit, from Adam's first sin until the last sin that will be committed. Our sins before we were born again were forgiven, 2 Peter 1:9. Our sins are not forgiven before we commit them, now or in the future. We all will sin but we do not become unsaved. If we confess, He is faithful and just to forgive us and cleanse us.
Our life we live is We will be forgiven, not we have been forgiven that is why we should not ignore the Spirit's loving work. Hey, don't do that, and if we slip up, we repent for our disobedience. To me that is a life of repentance and obedience, not works for salvation it is the evidence of our faith. A person can stop doing and lose, walk away, or forfeit, their gift of salvation.
1 Timothy 4:1 Some shall depart from the faith, these are Christians, and you have to be a part of it to depart from it. The process of salvation will not be complete until the return of Jesus and we are resurrected and glorified in our immortal bodies.
Thank you, brother, for this discussion may we grow in faith and understanding.
God bless,
RLW
Part 7.
2 Peter 1:10.
Let's take this from verses 3-4.
(According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness,) through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
(Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.)
Paul lists what's added in 2 Peter 1:5-7. "And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, and to virtue knowledge.
And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness.
And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
Verse 8!
"FOR IF THESE THINGS BE IN YOU", and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
The contrary to "these things being in you" is seen in is verse 9.
BUT HE THAT LACKETH THESE THINGS IS BLIND, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
In verse 10 Paul is telling us to "give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
He is saying if according to Christ divine power hath he given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, and whereby we are given exceeding great and precious promises and by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. " Make your calling and election sure: for "IF YOU ARE DOING THESE THINGS", ye shall never fall.
Hebrews 6:13-16.
When God performed this covenant with Abraham, he put Abraham to sleep. IT WAS UNCONDITIONAL!
Genesis 15:1-12.
Matthew 24:13.
This is to take place during the great tribulation period.
However, I'm not going to get into that on this thread.
This is how I interpret those verses, perhaps some can help and improve on this.
God bless you brother.
Another "B" attribute that comes to my mind is:
BENEVOLENT
God is giving. He gives of Himself within the Godhead in relationship with the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They give each other love, and, and harmony, and glory in an eternal way. He gives to creation life and beauty and provision for physical needs, and salvation from sin for those elected. He promised to give good gifts to His children when they ask. Luke 11:13.
He gives us all we need for life and godliness: 2 Peter 1:3
"According as His divine power hath given unto all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him (Jesus) who hath called us to glory and virtue."
God even gives to the unbelievers and the believers alike, making the sun to shine on both, giving rain in season, causing crops to grow for a harvest.
So I think it is good to be content in all things, because all good things comes from His hands. We also should cultivate gratitude to Him for all we receive each day from Him. I try to do this more and more. He deserves our gratitude and for us to have thankful hearts before Him.
Christ is TRUTH
If you don't believe that the OLD TIME ( 2 Peter 1:21) is speaking of the Old Testament prophets then Luke 24:45 is FOR YOU, not me..
God Bless you, as the spirit of truth (Holy Ghost) destroyers you carnal mind.
2 peter 1:21 for the prophecy came not in the old (testament) time by the will of man; but holy men of god spake as they were moved by the holy ghost.
god bless you!
Part 2
This we must do for the rest of our lives, to live in repentance and obedience walking in the Spirit, not in this world. We must include these scriptures that show during our life and be sanctified one can fail, fall away whatever we want to call it, Heb. 3:12-13 1 John 1:7 2 Peter 2:20 we are told to keep ourselves Jude 21 If we hold fast the confidence, Heb. 3:6 If we faint not, Gal. 6:9 If ye continue in the faith, Col. 1:23 If ye do these things, 2 Peter 1:10, Paul said this about himself 1 Cor. 9:25-27.
Do we err when we say I was saved on whatever date when we should say my salvation started and I was justified made righteous, and I am now walking in the Spirit of God looking for the day I will be glorified when My Savior Jesus Christ returns and I will be like Him and as long as I breathe I will continue to walk in the Spirit of God as I am sanctified to be made perfect as My Lord Jesus is perfect? We must, every day be obedient and ask for forgiveness and guidance to keep going for the goal.
When are we saved is it when we accept Jesus as our Savior, if then do we overlook we must endure until the end. We must have the earnest/downpayment of the Spirit 2 Cor. 5:5, a downpayment for the final purchase when Jesus returns to claim His elect. We must know and realize that for whom the downpayment has been placed it must be intact when Jesus returns. We must endure until the end. Matt. 10:22 Matt. 24:13 John 6:27 As Abraham Heb. 6:13-16 James 1:12
I wish I could explain this better; I feel I have come up short, but I feel those who believe when walking down the aisle and confess they believe in Jesus they have a nonrefundable ticket to eternity, that is wrong.
God bless,
RLW
Thank you, I did use 1 Cor. 9:25-27 there are many other scriptures on this but I try to keep my posts as short as I can. I agree the longer we walk in the Spirit the stronger our faith becomes. Our repentance and our obedience keep us in a relationship through the Spirit of God with Jesus and through this faith given to us by God it becomes easier to say no to the temptations that come against us.
Our obedience and our conscience reveal who we are servants to, and we must stay obedient unto righteousness, Rom. 6:16. Nothing can separate us from the love of Christ, and as you said only sin separates us from God that is why if we fail to stay repentant and obedient, we fall out of His mercy and grace and our sins will no longer be covered and if we do not repent and return, we will perish and pay the penalty. My understanding is that is our choice, many are called few are chosen, Matt. 22:14.
If someone wants to do a word study that will be worth the time it would be on the little word if. If is a little word but is important, it expresses directly to our responsibility to God. If we hold fast the confidence, Heb. 3:6 If we faint not, Gal. 6:9 If ye continue in the faith, Col. 1:23 If ye do these things, 2 Peter 1:10 If we say that we have no sin, 1 John 1:8, many many more.
God bless,
RLW
You said.
( 2 Pet 1:5-10) These verses are (clearly) prophecy written for us today. The first verse says ( 2 Pet 1:1) "Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, TO THEM THAT HAVE OBTAINED LIKE PRECIOUS FAITH with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ"
This is prophecy for us today! End quote.
I believe to "those that have obtained" is present tense. ( local.)
Quoting you again.
2 Pet 1:15
"Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease (to have these things always in remembrance)
TO HAVE THESE THINGS ALWAYS! This is prophecy for us today. End quote.
I see this as Peter is writing "to them that have obtained" (In that day) When Peter die he is telling them not to forget what he told them in the previous verses.
"be partakers of the divine nature ect...
Let's look at 2 Peter 1:18
"And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount."
THEY WERE EYE WHITNESSES!
But yet Peter says "We have also a more sure word of prophecy;
PETER IS TALKING ABOUT WHAT IS IN HIS POSSESSION! And what energized those prophets who wrote the prophecies. THE HOLYSPIRIT. Not the will of man with his private interpretation.
( Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
For the prophecy came NOT IN OLD TIME by the will of man: but holy men of God spake AS THEY were moved by the Holy Ghost.)
2 Peter 1:20-21.
"Not in old time" puts the time that the group (THEY) in the OT.
That's all I have Jimbob.
I believe you and Brother Chris have covered a great length on this and he's more adequate to debate you on this topic than I am.
So I end it here.
God bless.
Without reading all of what you and Chris discussed, I've looked over what you have given me.
I believe the hang up is a portion of verse 15 you singled out. ( TO HAVE THESE THINGS ALWAYS IN REMEMBRANCE)
So I tracked backwards to see what " These things" are, that Peter is talking about. Start at verse 13.
Here's how that went.
2 Peter 1:13 Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in REMEMBRANCE;
2 Peter 1:12Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in REMEMBRANCE OF THESE THINGS,
2 Peter 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do THESE THINGS, ye shall never fall:
2 Peter 1:9. But he that lacketh THESE THINGS....
2 Peter 1:8. For if THESE THINGS be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
If we keep on backtracking we come to what these things are in verses five through verse seven. I will highlight them with caps.
2 Peter 1:5-7.
And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith VIRTUE; and to virtue KNOWLEDGE;
And to knowledge TEMPERANCE; and to temperance PATIENCE; and to patience GODLINESS;
And to godliness BROTHERLY KINDNESS; and to brotherly kindness CHARITY.
(For if THESE THINGS be in you), and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jimbob I'm not sure if I grasp you but it seems Peter is talking about what accompanies salvation.
God has given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: that by these we might be partakers of the divine nature,
verses 3 and 4.
This doesn't seem to be talking about any writings unless I am missing your point.
God bless.
2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. I also believe this clearly refers to the OT prophets & writers that were inspired & moved by God's Spirit to pen these holy words.
The example you have given in these two Scriptures: Genesis 24:16 and Isaiah 7:14
. "Virgin" is in both references as given by the KJB translators, yet in Hebrew the words are different: the first one is 'bethulah' & the other 'almah'. Why did the translators not give different English words for each of those verses, but just used 'virgin'?
And also, Giannis explanation; "The Hbr should be translated as " young woman", not "virgin", that is why there is a difference from Genesis 24:16. This is how it is always written in the Hebrew Bibles (Tanakh).
I have the word in the Hebrew as 'almah'. (but dogmatic). meaning "Virgin. As Giannis said, Matthew follows the Septuagint text of the Old Testament, and in the Septuagint, it is written "the virgin."
Some has used this "SO CALLED DISCREPENCY" to attack the virgin birth and a person like me wouldn't know how to defend it being that I don't know Hebrew or Greek outside of helps and research.
So, that causes me to leave off the translations drama and go to the prophet and prophecy in Isaiah 7:14 and giving thought to what 2 Peter 1:21 is saying and its meaning.
In Isaiah 7:11 the Lord prompts Ahaz to "Ask thee a sign of the LORD thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above.
Vs 13 God draws the attention to the house of David.
Vs 14 God gives them a sign. "Therefore, the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son.
This wouldn't be much of a sign if it was a mere young woman. However, it draws one's attention if it is a virgin being mentioned.
God's truth can be found even if the translation or our ability to translate is imperfect.
God bless
Just referring to a couple of your points Jimbob. 2 Peter 1:20. When Peter declared this Truth to his readers, the prophecies 'of old' were written within the Torah, the Prophets, & the Writings. These prophecies were available to all, though with high illiteracy levels, it's likely that the Scriptures were read, understood & explained to the common man mostly by students of the Word.
So what Peter is stating in this verse, is that the prophecies of old, which no doubt included the aspects of Jesus' coming & Sacrifice, were true revelations from God to His appointed. These revelations were not of private interpretation (Gk. unloosing, unpacking): they weren't written as from man's understanding of them nor from man's determination, but by the 'moving of the Holy Spirit upon them'.
So the point in these verses is not of "how many could have read those words compared to those being read today in the KJB", but from where did those words find their source, their inspiration & their validity to those then & now. Nothing at all pointing to the KJB in these verses or any of the verses you've cited now & previously as supposedly referring to the KJB as one having "pure words...purified seven times". Onto Page 2.
This important understanding shows us, that when even a slight deviation from the meaning of the text is taken, we can then justify many other things. No doubt the KJB translators were greatly helped by the Spirit & these men were diligent in their business, but there has to be differences in, say the English versions, to the original Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek texts. When texts are modified, omitted, or added to, then there are a number of reasons for that, chiefly that the 'older' manuscripts were being used in translation & not the more reliable later Textus Receptus (from which we get our KJB & some others). GBU.
2 Peter 1:20. Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2 Peter 1:20. Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
Acts 26:18. To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them, which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
As far as the apocrypha goes, I do not believe it is equally inspired as scripture. Titus 1:2 says that God cannot lie. There are parts of the apocrypha that go against what the canonical KJV says which in turn make that part of the apocrypha false. In the translating of the KJV, the translators had many copies of the same scripture that said the same thing. Any that said something different were looked at and decided upon. If 9 out of 10 said one thing, they would ignore the 1. It makes sense as that would have been a misprinted or wrongly copied scroll of scripture. They were objective as possible as they translated. The apocrypha were all translated the same way, they were separate books so they did not compare them to the other books during translation. Later, they decided that they would not be accepted as they contradicted the other scriptures. If God cannot lie, then His word cannot lie. 2 Peter 1:21 tells us that God gave the writers what to write. meaning it was inspired. So since those books contradicted the others, they are clearly not of God.
The Axe laid to the Root of the Corrupt Tree ( 2 Peter 1:4)
THAT the true faith (the faith of the gospel, the faith of the elect, the faith which saves the sinner from sin, and makes him more than a conqueror over sin and the powers of darkness) is a belief in the nature of God; which belief giveth entrance into, fixeth in and causeth an abiding in that nature. Unbelief entereth into death, and fixeth in the death: faith giveth entrance into, and fixeth in the life. Faith is an ingrafting into the vine, a partaking of the nature of the vine, a sucking of the juice of life from the vine; which nothing is able to do but the faith, but the belief in the nature. And nothing can believe in the nature, but what is one with the nature. So then faith is not a believing the history of the scripture, or a believing and applying the promises, or a believing that Christ died for sinners in general, or for me in particular; for all this may be done by the unbelieving nature (like the Jew); but a uniting to the nature of God in Christ, which the unbeliever starts from, in the midst of his believing of these
The following are the fundamental rules of Bible interpretation that the God lays down:
Christ is the author of the Bible. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we behold his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John 1:1,14
...the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but Holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit 2 Peter 1:21
Christ spoke in parables (earthly stories with a spiritual meaning). But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples. Mark 4:34
We compare spiritual with spiritual. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 1 Corinthians 2:13
As we approach the end of the world, and Christ's return, God is unsealing truths that have been kept sealed until the time of the end. This is spoken of as a vision that will speak at the end and not lie.
Daniel 12:9-10 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
Habakkuk 2:2-3 And the LORD answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that he may run that readeth it. For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie:though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry.
The historical-grammatical method of interpretation is not found in the Bible. It seeks to discover the writer's intended meaning, customs of the times, and the writer's intended audience and thus fails to recognize that God is the author and that the whole Bible is written for us today.
So the Bible is the FINAL authority in the Christian life ( 2 Peter 1:19). I agree with Frankie that you need the Holy Spirit to discern the things of God in His word. The Bible clearly states that in 1 Peter 1:11-12. The Bible also says that we need a preacher, because how can we hear without one ( Romans 10:14). So the Bible was given by the Holy Spirit/God and needs to be discerned through that, because the Bible is of no private interpretation ( 2 Peter 1:20-21). God had a specific meaning for each word and only He can tell us what that is.
I also believe what the Bible says in Acts 2:17 that in the last days people will prophesy, have dreams, and visions. If the Bible says it, then it's true. That being said, since the Bible is the final authority, if anything they say happened in the prophesy, dream, or vision that goes against the Bible, then it's a false dream.
Here's how to discern if they are truly a "prophet" in the sense of them prophesying, dreaming, and having visions:
1. Does it follow scripture ( 2 Peter 3:16)
2. Look at their fruits ( Matthew 7:15-20)
3. It doesn't breed confusion ( 1 Corinthians 14:29-33)
4. It is of the Holy Ghost/Jesus ( 1 Corinthians 12:1-3, John 16:13-15)
I hope this was a help to you and there is definitely more studying that can go into this, but that's about the summary of this.
I do wish you had spoken to my request of which of the two beliefs I asked you about. But I take it from you directing me back to the Scriptures that you believe that the Scriptures in their original autographs are strictly God's words, not those of men.
So, then, if this is true of your belief, then I gather that you believe that God dictated the words to the men to be written. Is this true?
2 Peter 1:21 "For the prophecy came not in old times by the will of man; but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit."
2 Timothy3:16 "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."
I believe what these verses declare, as I perceive that you do, too. I think there are two different stances on this topic. These are: whether God dictated His words in and through the Scripture writers or whether God guided these men through the Holy Spirit to write only what is true and sound words that accurately reflect what God wished to communicate to humanity through the writings of these men.
David, if you wish to respond back to this post, I would be happy for it. If you wish to let it lie, then that is fine, too.
"you don't know why I would bring up this matter, as it pertains to our discussion. When in Truth, it reaches to the very heart of it.
Going to the letter, in Hebrew or Greek etc; as you quoted & spoke from, comes from the traditions & teaching of man, the wisdom that's from below, earthy, which makes Mark 7:13, which sprang up in the Apostasy. Isa 55:8,9;
Whereas coming to the Spirit, our Teacher; The Word Rom 10:8; that comes Rom 10:17; within us, produces the fruit, the Word intended Isa 55;11; Isa 14:27;
Bringing this part of the conversation to a conclusion, by giving "the cause & effect of the learning from the letter, verses being taught by God Himself.
1Cor 2:10 which is freely & lavishly given unto us in Christ. Col 2:2,3; Proverbs 8:14;
You said; you don't subscribe to this type of application of sanctification ; citing verses with the word meaning; its plain to me that your faith is coming from books, & not our Teacher; who is Hebrews 12:2. Your trying to understand spiritual things by carnal means, Thus this faith you have is 2Timothy 3:7 Meaning; it will never bring one to the experiential knowledge of God; in Spirit & in Truth. Matt 11:27; For God is a Spirit & only by His Spirit is He manifested & known.
Jeremiah 31:33,34; New Covenant, he's prophesying, not that he partook of it, 1Peter 1:10; & yet he was cleansed & holy under the gospel of his dispensation 2 Peter 1:21; as many were Luke 1:5,6;
Again; what God requires of us, is to walk upright in the knowledge that He has given us.
Thank you for your kind apology, no offense taken, just a misunderstanding. Believe me, in this slow progressive work of sanctification, I've have had many misunderstanding & faltering, receiving His reproofs & admonishments, I've learnt Daniel 4:37; I love the way He gets to me. He always "hit the nail on the head" so to speak,& why? Daniel 2:22, Psalms 36:9;
you have experience Him in Spirit, Chris (in the car)
in Love & Truth
Frankie J
Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures
John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
Psalms 78:2 I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:
Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
Galatians 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Revelation 22:18,19 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
These are just a sampling of the many verses that speak about the scriptures, the Bible, the Word of God. They should be examined both in their immediate context and the context of the entire Bible if we are to come to Truth regarding the true nature of the Bible.
Jesus said Yes! Matthew 24
Starting from the Destruction of Jerusalem in 70 c.e.
until he comes. Then there's God's Wrath coming against Satan the Devil (the Dragon, Serpent REV. chapter 12), Wild beast (Authorities, Kings, HORNS chapter 17,18), and False Religion (Babylon the Great, Prostitute Revelation 17:1-6; Revelation 20:1,10)
Revelation 17 spoken in illustration then the angel explains
Revelation 18 spoken in illustration how powerful Babylon the great is (False Religion:The Great City)
Revelation 22 spoken partly in illustration and then true talk at the end
Rather it's believed or not, the scriptures (The law passed from Heaven Psalm 83:18) has spoken. 2 Peter 1:20,21
Only time will tell