Discuss 2 Maccabees 12

  • Chris - In Reply on Isaiah 52 - 1 year ago
    Hi Angela. I wouldn't agree with your question, "why are certain books removed from the Bible?" May I assume that you're referring to what are termed as 'apocryphal books'? Or, are you finding that some books that are in the recognized canon of Scripture have been deliberately removed?

    I can't answer to the latter, but to the former, there were very many books, manuscripts & other writings around throughout history, and particularly in the inter-testamental period (i.e. after Malachi's prophecy & the entrance of Jesus Christ at Bethlehem). Some of these writings were known to the Jews, but ultimately they only accepted the Word revealed through Moses (i.e. the Torah: the five Books of Moses); the Nevi'im (or, the Prophets), and the Ketuvim (or, the Writings). And within those broad divisions, we get our Bible (i.e. the same books as in the Tanakh (the Jewish Bible), but variations in order of appearance, & other minor changes).

    So, the Jews rejected the apocrypha & other spurious writings as being the Word of God, from God, & likewise, when the NT Canon was brought together, similar rules were applied, where authors, textual examination, falsehoods, etc., were reasons for post-New Testament writings being rejected. Now some Churches, e.g. the Roman Catholic & orthodox, do accept the apocryphal books as valid, but in mainstream Christianity, we believe that what we have now is God's Word, and that to fully accept these other writings, severely prejudice the Truth, as revealed to us.

    I can't give you all the errors in these books, but if you look at a couple: Tobit 12:9 (speaks of almsgiving purging sin & saves from death). 2 Maccabees 12:41-45 (place of purgatory & a monetary sin offering). Just these two references go against the teaching of Scripture. Of course, there are truths written in these books, but the evidence of errors therein, should cause us to be very wary & alert.

    I can't answer your second question - depends on which Fellowship you attend.
  • Giannis - In Reply on 2 Maccabees 12 - 2 years ago
    Dear Carline

    The reason that both Jews and many Christian churches rejected those books was that they promote faulse teachings like the one you mentioned. Oftren teachings from those books that are known as Apocrypha or Deuterocanonical contradict the rest of the OT scriptures. Though they are used as historical books to fill the historical gap between the last book in OT and Jesus Christ's time.

    GBU
  • Free - In Reply on 2 Maccabees 12 - 2 years ago
    Dear "Carline Preece", v. 44 (For if he had not hoped that they that were slaine should haue risen againe, it had bin superfluous and vaine, to pray for the dead.) See how it turned out :)

    Stay blessed in His Name Jesus, love u in Christ. Romans 14
  • Carline Preece on 2 Maccabees 12 - 2 years ago
    I'm not understanding the idea of praying for the dead in verse and the verse above .
  • T. Levis - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Here are several scriptures I found about death & after death : James 2:26, Ecclesiasticus 38:23, Ecclesiasticus 22:11, 2 Maccabees 7:36, 2 Maccabees 12:44, Ecclesiasticus 10:11, Ecclesiasticus 17:28, Baruch, 2:17, Psalms 88:10, Psalms 115:11, Ecclesiastes 9:5,

    after death,: Matthew 17:1-3, Luke 7:12-16, Luke 8:49-56, John 11:21-45, Matthew 27:50-54, Luke 16:22-31, John 21:14, Acts 3:15, Acts 4:10, Mark 12:25,26,27, Luke 24:46, John 5:12, John 5:25, 1 Peter 1:3, 1 Peter 2:24, 1 Peter 4:5, Revelation 1:5, Revelation 1:18, Revelation 14:9-20, 1 Corinthians 15:20,21, 2 Timothy 4:1, 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 1 Thessalonians 1:10, Matthew 25:31-46, Romans 14:9, Matthew 22:32, Isaiah 26:19,

    Hebrews 11:35, Revelation 20, 2 Esdras 2:16, Hebrews 6:2, Hebrews 9:14, Hebrews 11:4, Hebrews 13:20, Revelation 11:18,

    Hopefully these are helpful.
  • Chris - In Reply on Ecclesiastes 9 - 2 years ago
    Hi Marlo. The accepted canon of Scriptures does not speak of 'praying for the dead', but those who do believe in praying for the departed, generally appeal to the apocryphal book, 2 Maccabees 12:36-45.

    If you look at that passage (you can see those books here on this Site), you will not only read of an instance of praying for the dead but also about offering of some silver as a sin offering. I hope you will see the extreme error of this belief & action, as once a person passes away from this life, there remains no further chance to correct past sins & errors. And only the Blood of Christ can make full payment for forgiving mankind's sins & no money, self-mutilation or prayers can ever add to that great Sacrifice. Please be careful if you are entertaining such thoughts or beliefs in your mind & be careful when reading those apocryphal books.
  • Chris - In Reply on 2 Maccabees 7 - 2 years ago
    Hello Glen. I'm not sure whether you're saying that 2 Maccabees chapter 7 is not recognized by Roman Catholics, or that the whole Book is not recognized. I can't speak of that particular chapter & account, but I know that the Book is certainly recognized by them, since the doctrine of purgatory & praying for the dead is one of the key references they use in support of it. I speak of 2 Maccabees 12:36-45.
  • Chris - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Hi Thos. As others have stated, the teaching on Purgatory is largely a Roman Catholic one & is generally based on the Apocryphal Book, 2 Maccabees 12:38-45. The story there is about some Jews who were slain in battle but had unholy things in their possession & this was seen by the other Jews, making them unclean. To deal with this, the people had to remove this sight from their thoughts & that a large amount of silver was to be sent to Jerusalem as a sin offering for those sinners who died. This was done to guarantee them the right to the resurrection. And verse 44 also speaks about prayers being offered for the dead, that there would still be reconciliation for them & deliverance from sin.

    This portion of 2 Maccabees is what the RCs use to support Purgatory, a intermediate place where outstanding sins can be atoned for coupled with the prayers from the living & gifts to the Church. However, the Bible totally refutes & rejects such an abomination, as we are all given only one life on Earth & one Saviour to call upon for the forgiveness of our sins. If we fail to do this, then there is no intermediate place of purification - only Hell where all unforgiven sinners are consigned. Hebrews 9:27: "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment" (no second chances - no purgatory). How important it is for each one to take hold of the Truth & run to the Cross of Jesus for salvation & not trusting in man's wisdom & works to get there.
  • Chris - In Reply - 3 years ago
    Hello Cheryl. In reference to your questions: "Does purgatory exist? What is it for and where in the Bible can I read about it?"

    Purgatory, from the verb, "to purge", is a Roman Catholic teaching whereby those who have died & yet have sins unconfessed & unforgiven, go into an intermediate state for further cleansing, making them fit to enter Heaven. We don't find any reference in the Bible to such a state that a departed soul goes through, though RCs find scriptural support for their belief. They cite, Isaiah 4:4 ("spirit of burning" as referring to burning off the filth of the flesh); Matthew 5:25,26 ("prison" being purgatory, & "the last penny" being the full payment of that purgation); 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 (the test of "fire" as the place of refining & then acceptance by God); the Apocryphal Book 2 Maccabees 12:41-45 (a strong passage to show that the souls of the dead can be 'helped along the way' by making further sacrifice (monetary offering), with prayers making reconciliation for their sins); & so we have 'prayers for the dead'.

    If you know your Bible, & especially the references I've given, then you can see how Scriptures can be twisted to mean something else - to support their belief in a further purgation, with the prayers, offerings, masses, etc. to assure the soul's entrance to Heaven. Yet Hebrews 10:14, "For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified." Verse 18, "Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin." These verses tell us that Jesus' Sacrifice is sufficient to deal with the sin problem & to make us (those He has sanctified) perfect (clean & acceptable to God). And if our sins have been remitted (removed or transmitted onto Him), there can be no further offering for sin.

    So there is nothing that can possibly be offered to God, whether in this life or the next, that will further guarantee our entrance into Heaven. It's all of Grace - it's all found in the Cross & the shed Blood of Jesus.


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