Discuss 2 Corinthians 5


2 Corinthians 5 KJV Bible discussions
 
  • Ronald Whittemore - In Reply - 1 week ago
    GiGi,

    Part 5 and last Trinity discussion,

    Do you believe that Jesus lived a sinless life?

    Scripture is clear Jesus had no sin, Hebrews 4:15 1 Peter 2:22 1 John 3:5 Romans 5:12-15.

    Do you believe that the Father and the Son are one as Jesus said in Jn. 17 or that He and the Father are "in" one another and if they see Jesus, they see the Father?

    Both, Jesus said I and my Father are one John 10:30 and in other places, one means unity. Jesus was one with the Father not because Jesus was God but because He was filled with the Spirit and God dwelt in him, John 14:10, as we see God was in Christ 2 Corinthians 5:19

    God dwelt in Jesus and empowered Him by His Spirit that gave Jesus the power and authority like Matthew 11:27 All things are delivered to Jesus of His Father, Jesus did not have it, all was given to Him. God was manifest in Jesus, John 12:49 John 14:10. This is why Jesus said if you have seen me, you have seen the Father, John 14:9.

    Jesus in His prayer asked the Father that we may be one, as He and His Father are one through the words of the disciples, John 17:20-23. God and Jesus will dwell in us and we in them, 1 John 4:13-16 1 John 3:23-24.

    How is it that Jesus AND the Father send the Holy Spirit if there is only one person as God?

    Jesus said He would pray to the Father to give another comforter, John 14:16, we see in John 14:26 the Father will send in Jesus's name. In John 15:26 Jesus said I will send but this is from the Father and the Spirit of truth that proceedeth from the Father. This is not a person it is the Spirit of God.

    Please don't take this wrong, in the Trinity there is one God who eternally exists as three distinct Persons: The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, each Person is fully God, coequal, coeternal, and consubstantial. I'm sorry my understanding, is Scripture does not support that, Scripture is clear the Father is above all.

    Thank you, GiGi, I hope this is what you wanted I am not the best at this.

    God bless,

    RLW
  • Ronald Whittemore - In Reply - 1 week ago
    GiGi,

    Part 4 Trinity discussion.

    Do you believe that the will of the Father and the will of the Son are always the same or different?

    Jesus was obedient to the Father, Jesus said many times it is not His will but the will of the Father who sent Him, the same as we are to do, John 4:34 John 5:30 Mark 3:35.

    Do you believe that a human being can truly save all men from sin and death by a perfect life in their own will?

    First, I will have to say it was the will of the Father, Jesus at the end even asked His father if there was another way but not Jesus's will but the will of His Father, Matthew 26:39 Luke 22:42. We are told this is the foundation of our faith, Jesus' sacrificial death. God cannot die God is Spirit He has no blood to shed for sin it had to be a man, His Son, born of a woman.

    John 3:16 God gave His Son not Himself 1 John 2:22 1 John 4:3 2 John 1:7 Romans 5:8 2 Corinthians 5:21, God cannot be made sin, 1 Corinthians 15:17 Jesus died, and God raised Him from the dead, the first man to live a perfect life, the first fruits of those who sleep in death. 1 Corinthians 15:14 as said if Jesus was not a man who lived a perfect life and died and was raised from the dead all is vain.

    The first Adam was the first man Jesus was the last Adam and the second man, 1 Corinthians 15:45-47. 1 Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. The law had to be fulfilled by a man.

    How would a human being know that they are the Messiah from birth and thus know not to ever sin?

    As we see Luke 2:51-52 Jesus grew up increasing in wisdom and stature in favor with God and man. Jesus was twelve years old and He knew His father was God, but it doesn't say Jesus knew then He was to be the Messiah. God also said He would raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, Deuteronomy 18:15, Isaiah 11:1-5 Isaiah 61:1-2 confirmed in Luke 4:18-21. Romans 1:1-4 2 Timothy 2:8.

    See part 5
  • Richard H Priday - 2 weeks ago
    Necessary doctrines: Heaven and hell.

    There is only one time that I am aware of where a literal heaven was spoken against; in this case a book on Postmillenialism. I don't have the book with me at present (it may be buried in a box somewhere). I should note that one good point was in that book; namely that many of the PreMil camp tend to state or act as though the gates of hell are too powerful; rather than holding out to the promises that they will not prevail until the end ( Matthew 16:18). In the proper context (as opposed to a Dominioninsm mentality) this is a valid criticism of many who are hiding out waiting for the Rapture and not occupying until He comes ( Luke 19:13).

    In regard to hell; however of course there are many more professing believers who have convinced themselves that it is merely a symbolic statement. Such often tend to hold on to a cessation mentality; that is of a human soul before the final Resurrection presumably at the end of the Millennium or at least the Rapture. They think that someone will simply wake up thinking it was just a moment before that they died at the Resurrection; thus making the suffering of the lost delayed into the future to assuage their conscience (often if not for their own fate for that of their loved ones at present who have died). Of course; in light of verses such as 2 Corinthians 5:8; and Hebrews 9:27 among others this seems like a ridiculous concept. I would argue this point of a belief in literal hell is important enough that we cannot consider fellowship with other believers who don't agree at least in our own place of corporate worship. Again; we can try to witness to them the truth. This is needed doctrine because we need to explain the grave state of the lost; and that there is NO peace for the wicked. ( Isaiah 48:22 and many other passages). Hell not being literal is due to a misunderstanding of the meaning for the grave and sheol (the land of the dead).
  • Richard H Priday - 1 month ago
    On Christian music and idolotry:

    The second and third lines in Chris Tomlin's song "Good Good Father" state:

    But I've heard the tender whisper of love in the dead of night

    And You tell me that You're pleased and that I'm never alone

    David Crowder's song "He really loves us" has this in the third line

    "There is no judgment"

    And Danny Gokey's song "Love God Love People" says at the end of the fourth stanza

    "Love God and love People" (no brainer).

    Finally there is the song "What would Jesus do" states in the 11th Stanza

    "What would Jesus do

    He would love first..etc."

    The first question here is what is God's love? There is nothing in any of these songs that show any differentiation of God's love from that of man. Assuming that God never has anything negative to say goes against the verses that state God chastises anone He loves and we are illegitimate sons otherwise (see Hebrews 12:6; 12:8). To say there is no judgment is only true as to a believer's standing at the Bema Seat Judgment and missing the Great White Throne condemnation. We are judged according to 2 Corinthians 5:10 and be judged as to works done for Him; good or bad. If we aren't one of His own we are judged and condemned already ( John 3:18).

    No one should argue as to a Christian demonstrating love and patience; but that doesn't mean that we should stand for hypocrisy within the House of God; or societal evils such as abortion without sounding the trumpet as a watchman to avoid the condemnation warned of in Ezekiel 3:18. But such exhortations seem to be missing entirely in today's Christian songs; whether it is warning of the deceptiveness of Satan or sin itself; or the Tribulation to come or hell itself without repentance. Anyone on this forum who wishes to rebut that statement let me know; perhaps there are some independent artists I should be made aware of that I haven't heard lately.

    Thus; artists are idolized saying what people want to hear and are "Christian" by name only.
  • Ronald Whittemore - In Reply - 1 month ago
    Hi Chris,

    Part one

    I thank you so much for discussing this and thank you Giannis. I am not the best at explaining my understanding.

    I know John 1:1 we see it differently but what beginning makes the difference, it was the word of God in Jesus as Jesus never said it was His words but the Father's words, and God was manifested in Jesus John 1:14 2 Corinthians 5:19. In Colossians as well as Ephesians that is similar My understanding Paul is talking about the risen Christ as faith in Christ, redemption that is in Christ Jesus, the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, we are children of God by faith in Christ Jesus, the risen Jesus.

    I read what you replied to Momsage on this and I hope you are not considering me in the Gnostic camp. My understanding comes totally from Scripture and the Trinity doctrine is not taught anywhere in Scripture, it was hundreds of years after the deaths of the apostles, as in Matthew 28:19 is taken as the Trinity and many churches abide by this today, but nowhere in Scripture do we see anyone baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, what we see is only in the name of Jesus?

    I know you will not agree but to say Jesus is God this verse stands out to me 2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

    See part 2
  • Tunney on 1 Timothy 5 - 3 months ago
    I have much to work on in my life before my SAVIOR comes. I am saved by the blood of the LAMB by grace through faith it is a gift I received from my CHRIST. Ephesians 2: 8, 9. I must remember to daily put on my armor of GOD Ephesians 6:10-18; and that I am a new creature. 2 Corinthians 5:17

    I will daily pray for those in authority, for the lost, back slidden, and for the brethren in the field planting and watering the seed, waiting for the increase from the LORD.

    I will give; as I have been blessed and praise HIS name.

    Thank YOU FATHER for this wonderful time we have to serve, and glorify YOU. Bless the peace needed in Jerusalem; thank YOU for YOUR word never returning void when we go out declaring YOUR truth.

    Merry Christmas all!

    Numbers 6:

    26 The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

    Isaiah 9:

    6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

    7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

    December 23, 2023
  • Tunney on Exodus 22 - 3 months ago
    Commitment to GOD'S way will bring us closer to being the type of person HE desires us to be. 2 Timothy 3:16, 17

    Titus 2:11-14

    14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

    We will be able to conduct ourselves in accordance to the mind of CHRIST, heeding the leadership before us. Romans 13:1-5

    Being crucified in CHRIST, and knowledgeable in HIS word we are able to go forward and carry out HIS word and make disciples, Matthew 28:18-20; being encouraged, we will go out to reach the lost, 2 Peter 3:9.

    May we be faithful in our prayers for the peace in Jerusalem, and for the authority before us,

    Isaiah 55:

    11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

    1 Timothy 2:1-6

    GOD to shine HIS blessed face upon us as we put on the new man in CHRIST name, and put off the old man. For if any man be in CHRIST, he is a new creature. 2 Corinthians 5:17

    Thank YOU FATHER for the faithfulness of the brethren here on this forum. Help us to be prayed up, and be reminded to wear the armor of GOD daily. Ephesians 6:11-18

    Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all. December 21, 2023
  • David0921 - In Reply - 3 months ago
    Chris,

    In rereading your comment I did not directly address your question as to why we are commanded to send forth the Gospel.

    While it is a certainty that each and every one of God's Elect will become "saved" since there sins have been fully paid for, God must still apply that salvation to their life in giving them a New Heart, a New Resurrected Soul.

    Therefore the command to send forth the True Gospel into the world as the means God has chosen to draw His Elect to Himself as He applies that Salvation to their life; and as a means of separating the wheat from the chaff particularly in our day.

    The True Gospel is the "savor of life unto life and death unto death" as we read in 2 Corinthians 2

    2 Corinthians 2:15-17 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things? For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

    It is not the business of the True Believer to decide or know who is one of God's Elect and who is not. That is God's business not our business. Our task is to be an ambassador of God's Kingdom.

    2 Corinthians 5:17-20. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
  • Adam - In Reply - 3 months ago
    John 10:34- seems to be a popular verse here. People want to believe they are a god, is that what's happening here? That would be a gross misinterpretation. You know this is a quote with a question mark at the end, right? Let's be honest about it. Here's the commentary for that:

    Christ's argument is: If your law calls judges gods, why should I be held guilty of blasphemy for saying that I am the Son of God?

    As per the other argument trying to discredit the word "one" sounds like your argument is that one doesn't really mean one, because Jesus used it to describe believers being one. I don't see how being one in unity as Christ's body somehow means that all the Bible verses about Jesus being God and divine suddenly don't apply? The verse about the Father and Son being one is only one of MANY verses competing the picture. The Bible already says Jesus the Word is God so how can you disregard that?

    God: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1 KJV

    You: Word was "NOT" God?

    "Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also." John 8:19 KJV

    Have you thought about how your belief reconciles with verses like this above?

    Isaiah 7:14 -

    Yes, Jesus is called Immanuel which means "God with us". People called Jesus "God". He's King of King and Lord of Lords. Alpha and Omega, first and last. Do you believe Jesus is Lord? I believe that is a requirement for even being a Christian. A Christ follower should know who Christ is.

    1 John 5:7-8

    John 10:30

    John 8:19

    Genesis 1:26

    Genesis 11:6-7 (plural "us" which includes Jesus, as per John 1:1)

    Philippians 2:5-8

    2 Corinthians 5:19

    John 1:3

    Matthew 28:19

    1 Peter 1:2

    2 Corinthians 13:14

    Deuteronomy 6:4

    John 14:10

    John 20:28

    1 John 2:22-24

    Matthew 1:23-25

    Colossians 2:9

    Acts 17:29

    Romans 1:20

    Isaiah 7:14

    Hebrews 1:8

    Isaiah 44:6

    Isaiah 43:11
  • Chris - In Reply - 4 months ago
    Page 1.

    Hi Valmar. Thanks for addressing my question & I do agree with you on the incomprehensible Work of the Spirit in giving healing, exhortation, etc. What I was looking for pertains to your subject, viz. a believer's eternal security. And also to a comment you made, "the ability to lose one's salvation rests completely with that individual".

    The way I understand the Scriptures, is that if we have the ability, or power, to lose/relinquish our salvation, then it presents questions not only to the Spirit's Work in saving a lost soul, but also the power we have to over-ride what the Spirit has done in our lives. Clearly, you believe that a saved sinner can either choose to depart Christ or to remain faithful to Him. My question then is: is it in the new spiritual make-up of the one now found 'in Christ' to ever desire to leave the One Who has delivered Him from so great a penalty & given him a new life with peace, joy & hope? Here, I'm not referring to a saved soul who through negligence or appeal of the flesh or Satan, strays & toys with the world. I'm confident if that soul is saved, then the Spirit will not let him go; and Momsage shared an apt testimony of this very work of God in her & her husband.

    So to my question, I believe the more relevant Work of the Holy Spirit in one's life is that: He Convicts man of his sin ( John 16:8-11); He Regenerates, or gives re-birth to the penitent sinner ( John 3:3-7, Titus 3:5, 2 Corinthians 5:17, 1 John 2:29); He Indwells ( 1 Corinthians 6:19, Romans 5:5, John 14:16); He Baptizes ( 1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:5); and He Seals ( 2 Corinthians 1:22, Ephesians 1:13, Ephesians 4:30). I'm sure you're conversant with these Scriptures, showing that salvation & securing is all of God, without any contribution from man. To Page 2.
  • Chris - In Reply - 4 months ago
    Page 1.

    Again, dealing with your recent comments to me, now in one post, Shabbat Keeper. Firstly, Adam has written very well to Jema, so I won't bring up the matter of the definition of "eternal/eternity", which should alone convince us that physical death is not the end for anyone (believer or unbeliever).

    If I'm correct from your first post to me, "what an icky thought it is, to stop existing", you believe in the total annihilation of the body at death (for the unbeliever). So, when the Bible speaks of man, his existence & his death, we are first reminded that man is a tripartite being (i.e. one whose composition is of body, soul & spirit: 1 Thessalonians 5:23). When the body dies, it decomposes back to the Earth, but those parts of man that cannot be killed ( Matthew 10:28) can never be destroyed. Unlike animals, man's spirit, given by God, returns to Him ( Ecclesiastes 3:21), whereas animals cease to exist - forever. Therefore, if man, made by God to reflect His Image & traits, is accountable to God, will never cease to exist (his spirit & soul cannot be destroyed, whether by death, fire, or whatever), & he will stand in judgement before God. For this reason, the Gospel is so vital for all to hear, to alert all people that death is not final - there remains an accountability & their final judgement will be based on what they have done with Jesus Who came for them.

    You wrote, "Hell fire is the same thing as destruction" & you gave the example of a house on fire. A house is physical/material, a spirit is not - it can never be destroyed. The real Shabbat Keeper or myself are found in our spirits/souls - the body is simply the house in which we need to live in. So yes, this house is corrupt & temporal, but we who have Christ's Spirit in us, look to be clothed (endowed) with that "house which is from heaven" ( 2 Corinthians 5:1-6). Likewise, hell (not the grave), is the dwelling place of those who have spurned God's Love - spirits they are & in torment.
  • Chris - In Reply - 4 months ago
    Hello Bmccaugh58. The answers to your questions are actually found throughout the Bible (from Genesis to Revelation), because the Bible essentially shows us how far mankind has fallen away from his Creator (because of sin), the repercussions we face from living in such a sinful state, & what God has done to offer correction & help, or else, judgement. So, one merely has to read through the Bible (even in your daily devotions/readings) & will see how people, yes all of us, have done wrong towards God & man & what subsequently entails from that. Some will learn & be corrected & then restored - others will persist in their evil ways & face God's Judgement.

    So, here are some passages to start you off, but in your reading of the Bible, God's Spirit will alert you to what you seek or even where some action needs to be taken in your own life.

    For "Consequences", see: Genesis 2:15-17; Genesis 3:16-19; Deuteronomy 28:1,2,15; 1 Kings 11:9-11; Job 4:8,9; Isaiah 59:2; Jeremiah 17:9,10; Matthew 27:3-5; Romans 6:23; Romans 13:4; Galatians 6:7,8; 1 Timothy 5:8; James 2:10; Revelation 20:12-15.

    For "Correction", see: Proverbs 22:6; Proverbs 29:15; 2 Corinthians 5:10; Galatians 6:1; Ephesians 6:4; 2 Timothy 4:2; Hebrews 12:5-11; Revelation 3:19.

    These are just a very few Scriptures, reminding us that there will always be consequences for our actions, not just in our dealings with each other, but more importantly, as we stand before God. But this God of Love always gives sinful wayward man an escape route, from a life of sin to a life of holiness & love - and His Name is Jesus.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 5 months ago
    Salvation there is a death and an ressurection for the TRUE believers.

    This is not done by an alter call or an profession but by the Spirit of God that searches the heart.

    Colossians 2:12

    having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead

    2 Corinthians 4:16

    Therefore we do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is being renewed day by day.

    2 Corinthians 5:17

    Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

    Galatians 6:15

    For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.

    Ephesians 2:10

    For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

    Romans 6:4

    Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

    Colossians 3:1

    Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

    Romans 7:6

    But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

    Ephesians 4:24

    and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.

    Life begins here as a babe in Christ,

    God bless you for this all important portion of scripture.

    If this is not gotten right nothing else matters.
  • Bro dan - In Reply - 6 months ago
    Hi Frankie,

    Thank you for your response, your words of encouragement mean a lot to me, as well all the relevant scripture regarding worshiping God in Spirit and Truth, and overcoming sin. I agree with all, and if we our honest with ourselves and take the time to evaluate our true walk with Christ we should be conforming to the scripture you mentioned such as 2 Corinthians 5:17 and 1 John 1:5-6 and if born again should have a mind like Christ 1 Corinthians 2:16

    Scripture tells us we can have a mind like Christ! Not conformed to this world, but have renewed minds, and prove what is good, and acceptable, and perfect will of God Romans 12:2 Sinning is not acceptable to God, and for Christians to maintain the steady drum beat that they can't stop sinning is unbelievable per all of the scripture telling us that we are required STOP sinning, even including Jesus telling us that with Faith nothing is impossible for us! Matt 17:20

    We are supposed to be as HOLY as Jesus and walk like him.Through the Spirit of God we CAN stop sinning. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. 1 John 2:6 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother. Matthew 12:50 The Bible emphasises several times that we are supposed to be holy:Ye shall be holy: for I theLordyour God am holy. Leviticus 19:2

    Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Matt 5:48 Frankie, I think we can both agree that being perfect is without sin. But the multitude of worldly Christains say they can't ever be perfect and will always be sinners in this life - so they are saying Jesus/God is lying in Matt 5:48 and they are not accepting this Truth!

    GBU
  • Bro dan - In Reply - 6 months ago
    Hi GiGi,

    Thanks for your response regarding our struggle with sin. You asked the following: Are you intimating that only those who are living in a continuously sinless life are living godly lives? I will answer by stating: Here is scripture intimating that only those who are living sinless lives are living Godly lives.

    1 John 3:6 "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him."

    1 John 3:8 "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."

    1 John 3:9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

    Romans 6:6 "Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."

    2 Corinthians 5:15 "And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again."

    How do you reconcile the above scripture?

    You asked where I'm at in my current walk with the Lord. I'm struggling as you, and apostle Paul, but I finally feel that now I am making progress toward my goal of being sanctified and sin free in this life. The Spirit has convicted me that I should stop using that old worn out excuse that "we can't stop sinning" as being acceptable anymore. I have no choice now but to accept this, and pick up my cross, and reject this world and the lust filled things of this world. I'm praying a lot more, (If we are praying we can't be sinning) focusing on God's/Jesus words throughout my day, and the Spirit is filling me with positive thoughts and healing my mind and body. I'm so blessed Gigi, I really want to help others make progress in achieving the love/sanctification in this life that Christ promises to us if we have Faith as big as a mustard seed!

    GBU
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 7 months ago
    Gigi

    we are in a tabernacle/ tent.

    we are not the tent!

    when the body/tent dies we are absent of it.

    and so is unbelievers.

    even tho some disagree on where the spirit of a person goes, it's clear by these verses it lives on.

    2 corinthians 5:1-6. for we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved,

    we have a building of god, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

    notice paul still addresses the spirit as if it still lives even tho the body has dessolved?

    for in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

    if so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

    for we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

    now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is god, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the spirit.

    therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the lord:

    and when we are absent from the body we are going to be present with the lord.

    we have been baptized in christ and given an ernest of the spirit.

    when we go to be with the lord we will have the full measure of the spirit!

    we have been quickened by the spirit of god!

    we have eternal life now.

    we are part of the first resurrection now!

    we're alive.

    those who are lost is already dead whilst they live but yet still exist.

    the dead is also often mentioned as a category. ( revelation 20:13.)

    so when their body dies their spirit/soul will still exist but yet classify with the dead. when they are ressurected, they will be twice dead and thrown into the lake of fire and be tormented.

    god bless.
  • David0921 - In Reply - 7 months ago
    Hello Jimbob,

    Please refer to my respond to Chris re Heb 4:12 and 1 Thessalonians 5:23.

    On your statements regarding the Wrath of God and the nature of Christ's Atonement, I must disagree.

    I would encourage you to carefully read Isaiah 53, the entire chapter.

    And also consider these verses:

    Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

    2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

    John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

    Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

    Ephesians 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

    Colossians 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

    So if God has "saved" us, it means that Christ, eternal God Himself, had taken upon Himself every dirty rotten sin that we have committed or ever will commit, and has paid the full penalty for those sins, the Wrath of God, Eternal Death, which we rightly deserve, required by the Law of God, as our substitute. And He has freed us from Bondage to Sin and Satan, and has raised us from Spiritual Death and given us Eternal Life. And will at the Last Day, complete our Salvation by giving us our Resurrected Spiritual Body ( 1 Corinthians 15) in which we will live and reign with Christ as joint inheritors with Christ of the New Heavens and New Earth for ever more.

    Praise God for so great Salvation!
  • David0921 - In Reply - 7 months ago
    Jema and others,

    The Bible is very clear that when Christ applies His Salvation to one of His Elect and they become "saved", they become Born Again, they are given ETERNAL LIFE at that moment. This occurs in their Soul, which then can NEVER DIE. But their Body has not yet become "saved" and will die.

    So when the True Believer dies, their Body goes into the grave and corrupts; and must wait the Last Day to be Resurrected a Spiritual Body. But in their Soul, they go immediately to be with Christ in Heaven.

    2 Corinthians 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at HOME in the body, we are ABSENT from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be ABSENT from the body, and to be PRESENT with the Lord.

    1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the COMING of our Lord Jesus Christ WITH ALL HIS SAINTS.

    1 Thessalonians 4:13-16 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God BRING WITH HIM. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

    Jude 1:14,15 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, THE LORD COMETH WITH TEN THOUSANDS OF HIS SAINTS, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

  • [Comment Removed]
  • Jordyn - In Reply - 7 months ago
    Tdianne:

    Brother SSpencer has given you a perfect explanation of God's salvation, I can't add anything.

    About baptism:

    Baptism is not being immersed in physical water.

    You are baptised into the knowledge of the death and resurrection of Christ.

    Christ died for YOU, you died on the cross with Christ, three days later a new CREATION AROSE, a husband, Christ and his wife, YOU. You were joined in a marriage, you took the name of your husband, you were baptised in the name of Jesus, Jesus is the life and you are his body.

    Ephesians 4:4 ...ONE BODY ..... ONE SPIRIT ......

    Ephesians 4:5 .... One Lord (truth, life, the way), one faith (the faith of Jesus, you life), one baptism (your married name, baptised in THE NAME of Jesus.

    Revelation 3:12 ..... and I will writer upon him the NAME of my God .... and I will write upon him my NEW NAME .....

    2 Corinthians 5:17 .... old things are passed away, behold, all things are BECOME NEW ....

    Revelation 21:5 ..... Behold, I make all things NEW .....

    Revelation 15:3 ..... Great and marvellous are THY WORKS, Lord God Almighty .....

    God bless you
  • Jordyn - In Reply - 7 months ago
    Jema:

    Don't look back with regrets; what you call mistakes, God calls a learning experience to gain knowledge.

    Josephs brothers thought that they made a mistake and had regrets, Joseph, in the wisdom of God SAID:

    Genesis 50:20 But as for you, you thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to SAVE MUCH PEOPLE ALIVE.

    2 Corinthians 5:18 ALL THINGS (even what we deem as mistakes) ARE OF GOD, who hath reconciled (a completed ACT) us unto himself by (the resurrection) of Jesus Christ, and hath given us the ministry (KNOWLEDGE) of reconciliation.

    Romans 8:7 The carnal mind is ENMITY (in direct rebellion) against God (the WORD) .........

    God Bless You
  • Carleton - In Reply - 7 months ago
    P4

    " Hebrews 1:6 "And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him."

    Psalms 97:1 "O sing unto the Lord a new song: sing unto the Lord, all the earth."

    Psalms 97:13 "Before the LORD: for he commeth, for he commeth to judge the earth: he shall judge the world with righteousness, and the people with his truth."

    Ephesians 1:20 "Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,"

    Philippians 2:10 "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;"

    Philippians 2:11 "And that every tounge should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

    Hebrews 2:17 "Wherefore in all things it beloved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people."

    Deuteronomy 18:5 "For the LORD thy God hath chosen him out of all thy tribes, to stand to minister in the name of the LORD, him and his sons for ever."

    Hebrews 5:2 "Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity."

    2 Corinthians 5:21 "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who know no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."

    1 Peter 2:22 "Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth."

    John 3:31- 32 "He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthy, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all." And what he has seen and heard, that he testifiieth; and no man receiveth his testimony."

    John 3:33 "He that hath received his testimony hath set o his seal that God is true."

    P5 with a couple more scriptures to follow
  • Chris - In Reply - 7 months ago
    Page 2.

    So what did Jesus' Blood do that no other sacrifice could?

    A. it was the only RANSOM price for sin (all sin, for all people): Matthew 20:28; 1 Timothy 2:5,6.

    B. it was the only way to bring RECONCILIATION (no longer enemies, but now accepted & in peace) with God ( 2 Corinthians 5:18-21).

    C. it was the only way to PROPITIATE (to appease & turn away God's Anger) knowing that His Son's Blood fully met His Holy Demands to save those who would believe in Him ( 1 John 2:1,2).

    D. it was the only acceptable SUBSTITUTE that it would be Jesus that received man's condemnation, that no animal's blood could ever accomplish ( 2 Corinthians 5:21).

    E. and all this gave irrefutable proof that God's LOVE for sinners was genuine & lasting, that His Own Life, of His only Begotten Son, should be evident to all.

    True love can be seen when "a man lays down HIS life for his friends" ( John 15:13), & not just delegating the task to another. The Blood of Jesus, God's Son, shows us clearly, & should also do to the world, that God is indeed a God of Love, giving His best, His all to secure our salvation: given to all those who will respond to Him in faith in this great Work.
  • David0921 - In Reply - 8 months ago
    Adam,

    I would suggest, Adam, that it is impossible for someone who has become "Born Again" to continue in a lifestyle of sin as you have described. Why?

    2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

    Read again the verses that Mr. Spencer quoted. The Miracle of l the New Birth is an action that God takes in applying Salvation to our life. It is not the result of any action that we take, or any Work that we do. And once we have become Born Again we will have a "want to" in our Soul to do the will of God and to be obedient to the Law of God and we will Grow in Grace.

    Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

    And we are no longer "under the Law" in the sense that Christ has paid the full penalty demanded by the Law for every sin that we have and will ever commit and has freed us from bondage to sin and Satan that was our condition before Christ saved us.

    And he will complete our salvation at the Last Day by giving us our resurrected, spiritual body, in which we will live and reign with Christ forever more in the new heavens and a new earth. 1 Corinthians 15.
  • Bro dan - 9 months ago
    Chris, Page 2

    2 Corinthians 5:15

    "And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again."

    Are we living unto ourselves by wanting to enjoy this worldly life and all those things associated with it? As of late, I'm beginning to believe that this is a very big obstacle preventing us (Christians) from achieving the perfect union with Him/God.

    I've thought like other Christians for years that we could live a enjoyable life on this earth and walk with God at the same time. The more I read and believe the scriptures I am beginning to believe I am wrong. God is telling us he want's us completely.

    Letting go of this fleshy world is a big hurdle, maybe too big for most of us. Hence, our need to find a compromise in our minds to mold/reinterpret the scripture to achieve a message that will accommodate us hanging on to our enjoyable worldly lives. Are we fooling ourselves?

    Could this be a large part of why we haven't be able to achieve our perfect walk with God and become sin free? The overriding Bible message is we can't have the world and God - it's one or the other.

    GBU
  • Chris - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Page 4. David0921.

    I think our point of difference here is on Faith: did the OT faithful (the elect) have a God-given faith so as to be accepted, or did they come in their own faith, which God accepted looking ahead to the Cross? Yet knowing, that faith could never save them - only Christ's Blood. Hebrews 11:39,40, "And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect." We have been made perfect (cleansed, holy) in Christ & so also those others to join us as new creatures in Christ Jesus, that which they could only hope for & never attained.

    f. Born again. The entrance of the Holy Spirit into a sinner's life: the sinner who has heard & understood the Gospel in view to the wretchedness of his sins & holiness of God, repented, called upon God for salvation, & God's Gift of Salvation & of His Spirit, Who seals, secures, & ministers to every area of the person's life. The once lost, despairing & fearful under the judgement of God, now enjoys peace with God, freedom from sin's grip, victory over temptations, power & desire to live unto God & not to self, & the assurance of God's tender care to eternity, would show the redeemed one this dramatic change in life that can only be done by the Power of God. I see this, in brief, the re-birth work of the Holy Spirit & resulting effect on this 'new' person's life ( 2 Corinthians 5:17).

    I trust brother that my comments have gone some way to help you understand what I believe.
  • Bro dan - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Frankie J

    Yes, I believe we can, if we have Faith in God, and Believe in His words, and we live in His Spirit, Jesus tells us all things are Possible. Matthew 17:20 1 John 3:5-9 and 2 Corinthians 5:17

    Just like the scripture above, we would like to believe it, but we have doubt, and so our unbelief continues to provide Satan the opportunity to sow doubt, and we give him a resting place in our mind, and the ongoing ability to continue to control our mind.

    Today, all we hear is a loud and deafening drumbeat from Christians telling other Christians - we can never stop sinning, reinforcing sin contrary to what Jesus tells us what he expects from us. John 8:11 and John 5:14

    "Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee."

    Today God gives us the same choice that he gave Adam and Eve. Gen 2:16-17 But we continue to eat from the wrong tree.

    GBU
  • Ronald Whittemore - In Reply - 9 months ago
    S Spencer on the last week.

    Part 2

    2 To make an end of sins (Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law). The verb in the Hebrew text translated as "put an end to" can mean "to seal up". The covering of our sins was accomplished on the cross at Calvary. When he said IT IS FINISHED, he provided us with the garments (wedding garments) to cover our sins. Psalm 32:1-2 Matthew 1:21 John 1:29 Romans 8:3 1 Corinthians 15:3 Hebrews 10:8-11 1 John 3:5 Revelation 16:15.

    Is there still sin today? Yes. Will there still be sin and death after Jesus's second coming? Yes. Even during the 1000 years, there will be sin and death until all is made new Rev. 21:1-4 but through Jesus, they are covered and sealed, Rev. 16:15

    3 To make reconciliation for iniquity (Reconciliation is an element of salvation that refers to the results of the atonement, iniquity is guilt, crookedness, perverseness, that which is not straight or upright, moral distortion, in the dark. Colossians 1:20-22 Isaiah 53:6 Isaiah 53:11 Ephesians 2:16 Titus 2:14 2 Corinthians 5:18-19.

    The word reconcile means to bring back to a former state of harmony Jesus reconciled both Jew and Gentile unto God in one body by the cross and now through Jesus we both Jew and Gentile have access by one Spirit unto the Father no more strangers or foreigners but fellow citizens. Making reconciliation for iniquity concerns our involvement in the work of salvation.

    4 To bring in everlasting righteousness. Everlasting, no end, righteousness, justice, mercy, loving-kindness, in conformity to the demands of the covenant and according to God's will, fair and balanced. Isaiah 61:10-11 2 Corinthians 5:21 Romans 3:21-26 Romans 5:17-21 1 Peter 2:24.

    See Part 3
  • David0921 - In Reply - 9 months ago
    GiGi,

    Oops. The earlier reference should be 2 Corinthians 5:6-8.
  • Landry - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Brother Ronald:

    I will give you some of the scriptures that says we died on the cross with Christ and were raised with Christ, the first resurrection.

    2 Corinthians 5:14 .... that if ONE died for ALL,then were all DEAD.

    Colossians 3:3 For ye are DEAD, and your life is hid with Christ IN God.

    Romans 6:6 ....our old man is CRUCIFIED with him .......

    Galatians 2:20 I am CRUCIFIED with Christ: nevertheless I live, YET NOT I, but Christ liveth in ME .....

    Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised US UP TOGETHER ......

    Isaiah 26:9 Thy DEAD men shall arise, TOGETHER with my dead body shall they ARISE ....

    Revelation 20:6 Blessed and Holy is he that hath part in the FIRST RESURRECTION .....

    God bless you


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