[14] And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: [15] and if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
Answer:
Deuteronomy 31:8 KJV
[8] And the LORD, he it is that doth go before thee; he will be with thee, he will not fail thee, neither forsake thee: fear not, neither be dismayed.
Referenced from Pastor Charles Blake II Sunday January 8, 2024
My answer: Prayer and requests will prevail for me and West Angeles Church Cogic Cathedral
Looking over the horizon I am suddenly made aware of the controversy; like today's earthquakes in our part of the country which if were over open water would cause a Tsunami (if they were a lot stronger). It seems necessary to navigate through the seas in regard to what VERSION of scripture we should use; but I will swim out far enough and; as with an undertow attempt to go sideways as not to be dragged under.
Okay; facing it head on; I think most of us agree the KJV is the best study version of scripture to use; and I simply will leave all the aftershocks of the debate a couple months back about those dogmatic that it is the only inspired version of scripture for others to bring up as it seems inevitable that it will. I simply want to repeat that ancient Greek in particular has MORE THAN ONE descriptive adjective that can be used in English to get the full meaning thus it CANNOT be translated word for word without jumping around and causing much confusion. I will also say (risking the uproar) that sometimes other versions may have another word that helps to more clearly describe the original text. Now; if we can get past what I hope to be a 90 second event and move on....
Other sources can be used (commentaries; concordances; history books; sermon readings and interpretations of scripture) but enough can usually be understood in the Bible that we have at least a fair comprehension of God's Word. His commands are not grievous ( 1 John 5:3) and that should also mean they aren't overly complex to understand; cumbersome or voluminous. The concept of loving God and our neighbor as ourself ( Mark 12:30-31) sums up the law and should be the primary motivation; mindset and state of our heart and soul when the love of Christ constrains us ( 2 Cor. 5:14-19).
Starting with concordances; I am probably going to leave it to the audience to recommend the top ones. I have found some Bibles have cross references that are baffling.
Dear Lord: my request is that all true believers remember in all things, as we pray, the upper most desire in our minds and hearts is THAT GOD'S WILL BE DONE.
1 John 5: 13-15
"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing ACCORDING TO HIS WILL he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him."
God always hears our prayers and answers them but sometimes it might be a "no" or a "not right now" but always remember whatever the answer is God knows it is for your absolute good and this should give you peace. God Bless :)
"Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven./Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants."
'Therefore' preceding the verse connects the verse before which gives us the Perfect number 7 and multiples of it. Kingdom of heaven calls for accounts which is directly pendent to the everlasting covenant drawn up in 'seven' days. God blessed His servants in manifold ways covered by verses in Ge.1:3- till 2:3. In the Parable of Jesus he refers God's commandment to man is service. He is the steward. Adam is a representational figure.(Ge.1:28) These are the Abstract and God shall require of his servants the proof of their service. Seventy is a man's life ("The days of our years are threescore years and ten,"-Ps.90:10). In short seventy years signifies the end times so when Jesus appointed seventy 'other' disciples he is referring to the everlasting gospel.( Luke 10:1)
The Spirit gives us an example of the Min-Max mode of narrative where a specific even veers of to the end times. Malachi 3:1 is a classic example. How we serve today is set in direct frame of reference to the Judgement so without abiding in Christ as so many branches to the true vine we are like the servant who hid his talent in the ground. ( John 15:3)
How does the talent is converted into the quality of service that one does? Gifts of the Spirit is given for building up each servant as well as for the common good. "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal."(1 Co.12:7). And it is towards the one body to which gifts severally given to each member should count. In short no one may dare offending the will of God by serving as he pleases but according to 1 John 5:7-8.Both heaven and the earth must agree. "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body"(v.13)
Evidence of things seen in the world of the flesh is unlike evidence of things unseen which can only be reconciled in God. ( 1 John 5:7-8) The Father the Word and the Spirit agree in one. Sum total of heaven and earth has only faith with which to possess them. "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." (He.11:1)
How reliable are proof in the world of the flesh? Joseph's brethren brought their evidence and their father believed it. "And they sent the coat of many colours, and they brought it to their father; and said, This have we found: know now whether it be thy son's coat or no./ And he knew it, and said, It is my son's coat."(Ge.37:31-35). Similarly Potiphar's wife had proof. Substance of things presented as evidence in the world of the flesh has a way of getting lost. "Wilt thou set thine eyes upon that which is not? For riches certainly make themselves wings; they fly away as an eagle toward heaven."(Pr.23:5)
"I don't believe that the Pope is speaking for God allowing for same sex marriages and the Pope isn't great, matter of fact I believe the the Pope is Satan himself." I don't believe he speaks for God either and, indeed, he personifies Satan himself. I was being factious. I left Catholicism too when I left my Catholic home at 18. I couldn't stand it and was so relieved when it was in my past.
I don't know exactly what you mean when you say "and have been searching for a long time for the "true" religion." "True religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world." James 1:7. Because you are a true believer, God is in your heart, soul and mind. You belong to God. Those who are true believers are The Church of God, sometimes called the Kingdom of God. You are a part of the Body of Christ. This is your religion. James is saying if you love God you will show His love unconditionally, but especially to the needy and keep yourself holy. If you wonder how you can "keep unspotted in the world" do this - read Exodus 20: 1-17. These are the ten commandments of God-not laws-commandments written by God Himself. "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." 1 John 5: 3 and Jesus said: "For my yoke is easy and my burden is light." Matthew 11:30. Some Christians teach a Sinning/Christian doctrine but this is false. We may have weakness and faults as a true believer. These are not sins. When we are born again we are not "perfect", of course, but God helps us overcome these weaknesses and faults by maturing in Him but we are to "go and sin no more." John 8: 3-11/ 11- ....... And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more." I know I have been preaching :) and if I have presumed things about you that are wrong please forgive me, I just want to help if I can. God Bless :) I hope you will respond.
Your second question: "If Jesus was preexisting, an immortal being, God the son. How can an immortal being die?" There are varying beliefs about Jesus' position in Heaven prior to His incarnation. I rather simply accept John 1:1-18, John 14:10,11, John 16:27,28, 1 John 5:7, that Jesus came forth from God. Did He come out as a Divine Being in the presence of God, to be made a human for the sake of death, or did God take His Own Word & give Him flesh for this very purpose? We don't have a problem of God sending out His Spirit & the Spirit's indwelling in every believer (can He even be dissected?), but to send His Word out, clothe Him in a body, unnerves many.
"How can an immortal being die? How can God be tempted...How can God die?" God is Spirit - He is Immortal - He can never die. No one, having a spirit from God, can die - the body will perish, but who can destroy the spirit which cannot be touched by age or man's devices? But if the immortal is given a body, as Jesus received, or even as we also have to house our spirits, then the body will die but the spirit lives on. Can God take on flesh? A mystery no human can fully fathom, but truly "a body hast thou prepared me" ( Hebrews 10:5-7, taken from Psalm 40:6-8). So Jesus could be tempted & could die whilst in the body, and so in His complete identification with sinful men in need of salvation, Philippians 2:6-8 reminds us:
"Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross." "thought it not robbery" = Jesus didn't grasp onto/retain His equality with God, but 'emptied Himself' ('ekenosen'), laying aside His Glory, to become a Man, obedient to death that which was the Father's Plan.
RLW, I'm happy to discuss further if its a fair discussion. I asked if your use of trinity "doctrine" was to demean, and I'm gathering from your response that it was unintentional and not a tactic, correct?
This word was used to characterize our believing scripture like 1 John 5:7. You called it a trinity "doctrine" but I just call it reading the Bible as written. So, if you think my belief is a doctrine then I suppose your belief is a doctrine- that would only be fair. Just want a level playing field for whatever is discussed.
I think believing the Bible as written is important without distortion or bias, but I believe many things discussed in forums like this, such as the trinity, are not salvation issues. I've never met another Christian who has ever believed this, either. There are more that believe baptism, tithing or taking communion are higher on the essentials list than believing in trinity. Some churches have pastors that don't agree on the trinity. It is admittedly a confusing concept that humans cannot easily relate to, because we don't have 1 be 3 things and also 3 be 1 in our world.
God is greater than our comprehension and I trust that when God's Word says things like John 1:1 or 1 John 5:7 that it is true. I am aware of your objection with the translation, but I believe it is already accurately translated and other scriptures support it too. I also think there's a tendency to target the translation for verses people don't like, but often the verses people do like aren't equally dissected. This leads to a distorted understanding in my opinion.
I'm curious what you think about the last two verses shared about Jesus being the Alpha and Omega. To me that says that Jesus is God, but I'm sure you've read this before and have reconciled this with your belief somehow, so I'm open to hearing that. But if you want to save it for another day that's fine too. God bless.
I'm sure you know this went off topic of my original question, but am happy to discuss as long as this is genuine and respectful.
I did some searching online and couldn't yet find any church that believes what you said. A website for Orthodox Christians also said you don't have to believe in trinity to be saved, so I question the validity of this belief.
Is the goal of this is to demean Christians who believe what the Bible says about God in John 1:1, 1 John 5:7? Believing what the Bible says is not a doctrine, but denying it or twisting it can be considered a manmade doctrine.
"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." Revelation 1:8 KJV
The Alpha and Omega is the Lord Jesus.
"And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son."
Revelation 21:6-7
This says the Alpha and Omega "will be his God". Do you agree?
Does this not plainly say that the Lord Jesus is God?
If Jesus was not God, then why would the Bible say so many times that He IS God, like in John 1:1, 1 Timothy 3:16, Isaiah 9:6, and His own name Immanuel means "God with us". One would think if God wrote a Bible to convince us that Him dying for us was not Him but someone else and to tell us that salvation is from someone else and not through Him, then why would it say so many times Jesus is God. People called Him God, His name was God, He has the power of God, and the Bible says He is God. But I'm supposed to believe that He isn't though?
Thank you, you are correct I believe in one God the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ as most of the greetings in the epistles Ephesians 6:231 Thessalonians 1:1 and more, and nowhere is this doctrine taught in the New Testament that we must believe for salvation.
It is like Matthew 28:19 the baptizing in the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit but nowhere do we see it in the New Testament all were baptized in the name of Jesus and only in the name of Jesus are we saved. My study of 1 John 5:7 is that it was added from the Latin Vulgate and was not in the original text, but that can be debated.
I understand I am in the minority and have discussed this before. We can find Scripture to fit a doctrine, but can we find Scripture where the doctrine was taught? I have not found where the Trinity doctrine is taught. Like Genesis 1:26 there are many beings in heaven and the word us does not say God was speaking to Jesus, that is an assumption.
Thank you again for discussing this in a loving and respectful manor, this subject is deep and as long as we have love for each other, and truth is what we are in search of.
Thank you RLW for your input. It sounds like from your response you don't believe that God is triune like 1 John 5:7 says. The 3 verses about Godhead are not the only part of the Bible that says God is plural. Genesis 1:26 for example: "And God said, Let us make man in our image.." Jesus's followers called Jesus "God" and worshipped Him, etc.
Evidence I see so far indicates that most references to God are triune. One, singular, but triune God. Not 3 Gods, one God. As hard as it is to comprehend the Bible gives a distinction within God between the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost.
"But whom say ye that I am?"An opinionated man has his opinion as a man of faith has faith which is Person specific. This faith has its origin which is hearing the word of God.("So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."-Ro.10:17) When Jesus asked,"Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?""And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophet." All these were right since God the Father had revealed it to them. All these association across passage of time and place like strands was woven to connect the Son of man. Faith is one and the Gospel is one. The Spirit lays down the Fulness of God in the Son since the word built up faith which conquers the world. ("For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith."- 1 John 5:4)
We shall try to understand this from the very words of Jesus. Concerning the rejection he received from the nation of Israel he quoted from the Psalm to say, "Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner" and of himself,"And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder." (21:44-46)He was warning the 'the chief priests and Pharisees' who when they had heard, "they perceived that he spake of them." He asserted that the rock was his Person. His victory was that overcame their world and opinions that meant little.
It is in this context we need understand this verse,"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."(v.18). St Peter's claim to the keys is as that of his associate.These symbolic key is with the Son, "he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;"(Re.3:7) The Apostle never made a claim over it in his epistles.
Oops. neither sorrow nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain, for the former things are passed away " except you'll be able to look down on that cursed thing that's passed away, just because your left behind loved ones want you too. This is nonsense. Rev. 21:4 paraphrased. Also I have heard many times people who have testified of how their deceased "grandmother " has brought them comfort or peach of mind, etc. I read about one woman who couldn't find a will she really needed. She was stressed out about it. Then she said her deceased mother caused her to remember something that led her to finding the will. The publication was very reliable. So she gave her mother looking down on her from heaven, the credit instead of God. That is idolatry. You can shrug this off as many people do but I believe it should be discourged.
1 John 5:21 "little children keep yourselves from idols. Amen "
Why would God allow this kind of distraction away from Himself and why would anyone want to be distracted away from Him? Catholics do the same thing with Mary but there are no scriptures telling us not to worship her but we know it's wrong because it's idolatry, well so is asking "grandma May" to help me pass a test God Bless. :)
"At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes./ Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight."
Compare this line with Lucan Gospel "In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight." Identical verses, is it not? But it tags altogether two different set of events to establish that heaven and the earth agree in the Son.
Seventy other disciples signify the end times while the twelve refer to the Son who was sent to the earth as the Word become flesh."And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."(v.8) While what justifies the other Seventy is the Word. "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."( 1 John 5:7) The Spirit conflates both in terms of the Word which validates this verse.
While studying the multiplying of loaves we see a similar tag. 12 baskets of broken remains is how Jesus testifies his work as the Word become flesh. ("And they took up of the fragments that remained twelve baskets full."-14:20). As the Son his testimony is tagged by Seven.("And they took up of the broken meat that was left seven baskets full,"-15:37) Jesus Christ as the Son, his deity is revealed. His humanity in terms of the tag 12 so he that sanctified and he that is sanctified are as one."For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,"(He.2:11-18). Principle of Association works for everyone born of God. 1 John 5:11-12
John 10:34- seems to be a popular verse here. People want to believe they are a god, is that what's happening here? That would be a gross misinterpretation. You know this is a quote with a question mark at the end, right? Let's be honest about it. Here's the commentary for that:
Christ's argument is: If your law calls judges gods, why should I be held guilty of blasphemy for saying that I am the Son of God?
As per the other argument trying to discredit the word "one" sounds like your argument is that one doesn't really mean one, because Jesus used it to describe believers being one. I don't see how being one in unity as Christ's body somehow means that all the Bible verses about Jesus being God and divine suddenly don't apply? The verse about the Father and Son being one is only one of MANY verses competing the picture. The Bible already says Jesus the Word is God so how can you disregard that?
God: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1 KJV
You: Word was "NOT" God?
"Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also." John 8:19 KJV
Have you thought about how your belief reconciles with verses like this above?
Isaiah 7:14 -
Yes, Jesus is called Immanuel which means "God with us". People called Jesus "God". He's King of King and Lord of Lords. Alpha and Omega, first and last. Do you believe Jesus is Lord? I believe that is a requirement for even being a Christian. A Christ follower should know who Christ is.
1 John 5:7-8
John 10:30
John 8:19
Genesis 1:26
Genesis 11:6-7 (plural "us" which includes Jesus, as per John 1:1)
Yes, this has been discussed before. There are those who believe Jesus is God, and those who don't. I know where you stand, and you know where I stand. I'm glad to know that you also disagree with both the Mormon and JW's view on who Jesus is. Many cult groups deny the deity of Jesus Christ, and also deny that He is God.
I wasn't speaking about the trinity although I believe in a Triune God. This comes mainly from Colossians 2:9. I'm not sure if there's a clearer statement than that! In Christ dwells all the fullness of the Godhead, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, in bodily form! In 1 John 5:20, there are two great statements of fact; Jesus Christ is the true God, and He is the eternal life!
I didn't know that today in Christianity, salvation is dependent on the belief in the Trinity doctrine. I stand with you when I say that I don't believe that is a requirement for salvation. The bible teaches that salvation is obtained by surrendering one's life to Jesus Christ and being born from above.
Your questions are fair and might challenge someone to question their belief as Jesus being God. A fair question was also asked in Mark 2:5-8. To a man who was sick of the palsy, Jesus said, "thy sins be forgiven thee." For that, the scribes accused Jesus of blasphemy. Their question was "Who can forgive sins but God only?" Good question! God is the only one who can forgive sins, so why is this man (Jesus) committing blasphemy?
This is not the first time He was accused of blasphemy. He was accused of blasphemy for making Himself equal with God, claiming to be the Son of God, which to those who heard Him, they understood very well that the phrase "Son of God" was the same as claiming to be God. So, they had every right to accuse Him of blasphemy, unless of course Jesus was (and is) God, which I believe He is!
Ronald, thank you so much for reading my original 2-part post, and thank you for sharing your belief on this important topic. Blessings to you also!
Thank you for sharing your understanding on this topic. I always enjoy my discussions with you. We are in agreement that God is love. In fact, God is Agape, the highest form of love that exists. We are in agreement that God does not have pleasure in the death of the wicked. That's why He has provided a way for the wicked to be redeemed. We are in agreement that God does not want us to perish. Some take this word perish to mean cease to exist completely. Some teach annihilation. That, I do not agree with. I also don't agree that Hell is only the grave because both believers and non-believers alike are going to end up in a grave (unless the Lord comes for us first).
I agree that the bible tells in Ezekiel Chapter 18 that the soul that sinneth shall die. I believe it is the soul that makes up our entire being. Can our fleshly body exist without a soul? As far as salvation goes, did Christ come to redeem our flesh, or did He come to redeem our soul? I say that my soul has been redeemed, not my flesh. My flesh is rotten to the core! I agree that there are different degrees of punishment, but as you know, I also believe that whatever the degree of punishment is, it will be forever.
In my studies of the Greek, I have come to learn that the word for death means separation. This is why I believe that when our physical body of flesh dies, our soul will separate from our fleshly body. The body will rot and decay in the grave, not cease to exist as some say. I do not believe in soul sleep.
I do agree with you that eternal life is a promise. However, what we differ on is when this eternal life begins. For me, I believe I have eternal life right now. There are several verses in scripture that speak of eternal life/salvation being present tense ( 1 John 5:11, 1 John 5:13, John 17:3, John 10:28-30, John 3:36, John 4:14, 1 Timothy 6:12). These are just some verses that speak of eternal salvation being present, not future.
Good evening Bennymkje, Thank you. Mostly I agree with what you wrote in both posts. It is very true that abiding in God's love, it is impossible to sin as we believe Jesus Christ is the Lord's anointed. We are to love the brethren and to live a life in the Spirit, in truth. Satan is a liar from the beginning and his lies continue though he is now bound in the same world that Jesus came in the flesh to. Satan's main voice would try to replicate the truth as he did in the garden. He made himself equal to God when the children of God only abide in God. The difference is eternal life or eternal death. This is a very important part of the Gospel. The last chapter of 1 John 5:18 "And we know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." Verse 21 reminds us (as children) to keep ourselves from idols. Again, like a thief, the Bible says a man, must first bind the strong man before spoiling his house. The strong man is the world in our heart and Satan is that strong man, but by the Love of God, Jesus was sent to bind that strong man so that we can live in God as Satan's house is spoiled. I wrote in the beginning that the wound unto death to Satan might have healed overtime by some that have left off the love for the brethren by loving the world. Babylon is another word for the world by my understanding.
JESUS said for the Devil: Matthew 4:4 - Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD that proceedeth out of the MOUTH of GOD.
Where is written "every Word that proceeded out of the MOUTH of GOD"?
Maatthew 11: 27 - ...no MAN knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any MAN the Father, save the Son, and he TO WHOMSOEVER the Son WILL REVEAL HIM.
1 John 5:19-20
19 And we know that we are of GOD, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
20 And we know that the Son of GOD is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know Him that is true, and we are in Him that is true, even in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true GOD, and eternal life.
John 3:3 and 5 and 17-21:
3 ... Except a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of GOD.
5 ... Except a MAN be born of water(of the Word of GOD) and of the Spirit(the Word is Spirit), he cannot enter into the Kingdom of GOD.
17 For GOD sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on Him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of GOD.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in GOD.
This passage is one of my favorite verses as it reminds me to keep my mind on things that edify and that the Holy Spirit can use to sanctify my mind. Keeping my mind stayed on Jesus, who is our most precious friend of all helps me to appreciate Him as Savior, Lord and God. Blessings to you Fast Demas Red 500
8Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
My recommendation to all the Christian who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, those using this online tool. Get yourself familiarise with the Hebrew and Greek languages of scripture (interlinear bible) and if By the grace of God Study both Languages
-In the Hebrew the word God and Heaven is revealed to us (Human-Beings) in Plural
-Elohim =GOD which singular Eloah and in Plural ELOHIM.
-Heaven= eshmim which is the heavens in Plural .
-Therefore, when you Read in Genesis 1:20 you will be confronted with this fact God says Let us which is in Plural Indicting One Yet Three in the Scriptures.
-Mind you this Fact is found All over the Scripture and it is written in 1 John 5:7, KJV
7.For there are three that bear record in heaven,
the Father, the Word, and
the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
(Time is at Hand we are living at the end of days.)
Repent of your sins and do not be deceive Amen.
ACT 2:38, KJV
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
I am not confused by 1 John 5:7, but you have to included 1 John 5:8 to come to truth.
There are three that bear record in heaven and three that bear record on earth, that makes SIX that are ONE.
The three that bear record in heaven is GOD: God is the Father, God is the Word and God is the Holy Ghost, they are just different references to GOD, they are ONE.
The three that bear record on earth is CHRIST: Christ the Spirit, Christ the water, and Christ the blood, they are just different references to CHRIST, they are ONE.
God bears record in heaven, Christ bears record on earth, TWO not THREE, otherwise it is SIX that are ONE.
I'm not sure why you are so confused regarding 1 John 5:7.
1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
The verse states (3) three bear record in heaven. Not 2, and Not 4.. but 3. Easy to understand.
God loves the meek, the humble, the poor and the trodden down. He wants these simple people to read and understand His message because they will inherent the Kingdom.
I will leave you with this verse my friend. Titus 1:15 "Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled."
True, I have not found the word trinity in the Bible, and it is a man made word to explain the (3) that bear witness in heaven.
The bible tells us the following:
Genesis 1:26
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
In the above verse it says: "And God said, Let US make in our own image,
Who is God referring to when He says US? God could have said I will make, but instead He said "Let US make"
I believe that we find the answer to who the US is, in this verse:
1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
There are three that bear record in heaven!
The word Trinity meaning:
-the Christian Godhead as one God in three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
-a group of three people or things
People refer to: trinity, triune, etc.
There are (3) entities in heaven, God, the Son, and the Holy Spirit! Amen
When I made that statement I was speaking in a general sense. I see what you mean, but to be honest I don't think either of us will know for sure how the "mechanics" of how that may work. We can only go by what Scripture states or reveals to us. You might be correct for those who sin and didn't repent before they died unexpectedly.. We just don't have an exact explanation or example or parable for us to enlight us further to a situation such as that. So I'm afraid we have to assume a bit. Kinda brings to mind something I read from Spurgeon about the "sin that leads to death" found in 1 John 5:16-17 some things we just don't know?Refer to his "illustration" below:
5:16-17 "There is sin that leads to death.... All unrighteousness is sin." Perhaps someone thinks he has committed this unpardonable sin and is at this moment grieving over it. If so, it is clear that he cannot have committed the "sin that leads to death," or else he could not grieve over it. Whoever repents of sin and trusts in Jesus Christ is freely and fully forgiven; therefore, he has clearly not committed a sin that will not be forgiven. There is much in this passage to make us prayerful and watchful, but there is nothing here to make a troubled heart feel anything like despair.
ILLUSTRATION 5:16
An owner of a country estate may put up a sign that reads, "Danger: Beware of traps and spring guns." No one would think of going to the front door of the mansion and saying, "Would you please tell me where the traps and spring guns are set?" If we asked that question, the answer would be, "The purpose of this warning is not to tell you where they are, for you have no business to trespass there at all." So "all unrighteousness is sin," and we are warned to keep clear of it. "There is sin that leads to death," but we are not told what that sin is on purpose that we may, by the grace of God, keep clear of sin altogether.
"A true believer,(one who has been born of Gods Spirit)will never hear the words"depart from me,I never knew you."
What you said is confimed by the Word of GOD through our Lord JESUS Christ, saying:"All that the Father(the Word)giveth me shall come to me;and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out"- John 6:37.
The Word is GOD, so the Word in our heart is literally GOD in our heart-Hallelujah!Great is our GOD.GOD is our life, the life that He gives unto the true believers through JESUS( 1John 5:10 explains literally who has and has not the life),true believers BELIEVED in the testimony that GOD gave of His Son.
1 John 5:19-20 :
19 And we know that we are of GOD, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
20 And we know that the Son of GOD is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know Him that is true, and we are in Him that is true, even in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
Matthew 11:27 - All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal Him.
John 17:6-11
6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy Word.
7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, KEEP through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be One, as we are. AMEN.AMEN. AMEN. Praise GOD.
Read with a Child's mind and faith. Take the Word literally until it is not possible, knowing that with GOD nothing is impossible. With a figurative statement, apply it to a literal situation. A person's faith will be key and will determine what is literal or figurative. Does it literally mean 'pluck my eye out?' Well if that's what it takes I would say yes. But just quit the sin business and keep both those good eyes. Looking up definitions/Origin into English) Looking in Oxford Dictionary, use discernment when looking up words online. Words are ranked on most common usage. Read the Bible from their perspective. More words and definitions have been added since 1611.
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the Heaven and the earth. (Literal, or you stuck here)
1 John 5:7 For there are Three (Literal: 1,2,3) that bear record in Heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these Three are one (Figurative to Literal: They are God, One in Unity or One in agreeance, There at the Beginning, etc)
The Word is GOD, GOD the Father, two thousand years ago the Word -GOD- was made flesh, and the NAME He chose for He Himself was JESUS( John 1:18).
Hebrews 1:2-3:- 2 In these last days (last two days) GOD has spoken unto us by His Son,whom He hath appointed heir of all things,by whom also He made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of His Glory, and the EXPRESS IMAGE OF GOD's PERSON -the Word-...He sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high.
1 John 5:7 - There are THREE that (TESTIFY)bear record in heaven,the Father(the Person of GOD the Father-the Word),the Word (GOD Son-the Word made flesh-JESUS),and the Holy Spirit-the Paraclete,the Confort- John 16:12-15 combined with Jn 15:26 (who is not a ghost as is written in English language, but a Person, actually the Ancient of Days- Daniel 7:22, and the God of the earth- Revelation 11:4):these three are One.
By the way, Judgment was(will be) given to the saints of the most High;the time came that the saints possessed(will posses)the kingdom-Dan.7:22-(in LITERAL fulfillment of Rev.11:15to18.Take a look.)
Unfortunatelly, Your thinking is from a human perspective,a stumblingblock,not from GOD's perspective.Who is of the earth is earthly,and speaks of the earth- John 3:31-who is from above is above all.
JESUS said:He that believeth on me,as the Scriptures-the Bible- hath said,out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water- Jn 7:38.And more:Search the Scriptures(the Bible);for in them ye think ye have Eternal Life:and they are they which testify of me- Jn 5:39.
JESUS said to the Devil:Man shall not live by bread alone,but by every word that proceedeth out of the MOUTH of GOD-Mat.4:4. By the way,GOD who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,Hath in these last days(last two Days or two millenia)spoken unto us by His Son,whom He has appointed heir of all things,by whom also he made the worlds-Heb.1:1-3
[14] And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: [15] and if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
Answer:
Deuteronomy 31:8 KJV
[8] And the LORD, he it is that doth go before thee; he will be with thee, he will not fail thee, neither forsake thee: fear not, neither be dismayed.
Referenced from Pastor Charles Blake II Sunday January 8, 2024
My answer: Prayer and requests will prevail for me and West Angeles Church Cogic Cathedral
Looking over the horizon I am suddenly made aware of the controversy; like today's earthquakes in our part of the country which if were over open water would cause a Tsunami (if they were a lot stronger). It seems necessary to navigate through the seas in regard to what VERSION of scripture we should use; but I will swim out far enough and; as with an undertow attempt to go sideways as not to be dragged under.
Okay; facing it head on; I think most of us agree the KJV is the best study version of scripture to use; and I simply will leave all the aftershocks of the debate a couple months back about those dogmatic that it is the only inspired version of scripture for others to bring up as it seems inevitable that it will. I simply want to repeat that ancient Greek in particular has MORE THAN ONE descriptive adjective that can be used in English to get the full meaning thus it CANNOT be translated word for word without jumping around and causing much confusion. I will also say (risking the uproar) that sometimes other versions may have another word that helps to more clearly describe the original text. Now; if we can get past what I hope to be a 90 second event and move on....
Other sources can be used (commentaries; concordances; history books; sermon readings and interpretations of scripture) but enough can usually be understood in the Bible that we have at least a fair comprehension of God's Word. His commands are not grievous ( 1 John 5:3) and that should also mean they aren't overly complex to understand; cumbersome or voluminous. The concept of loving God and our neighbor as ourself ( Mark 12:30-31) sums up the law and should be the primary motivation; mindset and state of our heart and soul when the love of Christ constrains us ( 2 Cor. 5:14-19).
Starting with concordances; I am probably going to leave it to the audience to recommend the top ones. I have found some Bibles have cross references that are baffling.
1 John 5: 13-15
"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing ACCORDING TO HIS WILL he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him."
God always hears our prayers and answers them but sometimes it might be a "no" or a "not right now" but always remember whatever the answer is God knows it is for your absolute good and this should give you peace. God Bless :)
"Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven./Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants."
'Therefore' preceding the verse connects the verse before which gives us the Perfect number 7 and multiples of it. Kingdom of heaven calls for accounts which is directly pendent to the everlasting covenant drawn up in 'seven' days. God blessed His servants in manifold ways covered by verses in Ge.1:3- till 2:3. In the Parable of Jesus he refers God's commandment to man is service. He is the steward. Adam is a representational figure.(Ge.1:28) These are the Abstract and God shall require of his servants the proof of their service. Seventy is a man's life ("The days of our years are threescore years and ten,"-Ps.90:10). In short seventy years signifies the end times so when Jesus appointed seventy 'other' disciples he is referring to the everlasting gospel.( Luke 10:1)
The Spirit gives us an example of the Min-Max mode of narrative where a specific even veers of to the end times. Malachi 3:1 is a classic example. How we serve today is set in direct frame of reference to the Judgement so without abiding in Christ as so many branches to the true vine we are like the servant who hid his talent in the ground. ( John 15:3)
How does the talent is converted into the quality of service that one does? Gifts of the Spirit is given for building up each servant as well as for the common good. "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal."(1 Co.12:7). And it is towards the one body to which gifts severally given to each member should count. In short no one may dare offending the will of God by serving as he pleases but according to 1 John 5:7-8.Both heaven and the earth must agree. "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body"(v.13)
Evidence of things seen in the world of the flesh is unlike evidence of things unseen which can only be reconciled in God. ( 1 John 5:7-8) The Father the Word and the Spirit agree in one. Sum total of heaven and earth has only faith with which to possess them. "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." (He.11:1)
How reliable are proof in the world of the flesh? Joseph's brethren brought their evidence and their father believed it. "And they sent the coat of many colours, and they brought it to their father; and said, This have we found: know now whether it be thy son's coat or no./ And he knew it, and said, It is my son's coat."(Ge.37:31-35). Similarly Potiphar's wife had proof. Substance of things presented as evidence in the world of the flesh has a way of getting lost. "Wilt thou set thine eyes upon that which is not? For riches certainly make themselves wings; they fly away as an eagle toward heaven."(Pr.23:5)
I don't know exactly what you mean when you say "and have been searching for a long time for the "true" religion." "True religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world." James 1:7. Because you are a true believer, God is in your heart, soul and mind. You belong to God. Those who are true believers are The Church of God, sometimes called the Kingdom of God. You are a part of the Body of Christ. This is your religion. James is saying if you love God you will show His love unconditionally, but especially to the needy and keep yourself holy. If you wonder how you can "keep unspotted in the world" do this - read Exodus 20: 1-17. These are the ten commandments of God-not laws-commandments written by God Himself. "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." 1 John 5: 3 and Jesus said: "For my yoke is easy and my burden is light." Matthew 11:30. Some Christians teach a Sinning/Christian doctrine but this is false. We may have weakness and faults as a true believer. These are not sins. When we are born again we are not "perfect", of course, but God helps us overcome these weaknesses and faults by maturing in Him but we are to "go and sin no more." John 8: 3-11/ 11- ....... And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more." I know I have been preaching :) and if I have presumed things about you that are wrong please forgive me, I just want to help if I can. God Bless :) I hope you will respond.
Your second question: "If Jesus was preexisting, an immortal being, God the son. How can an immortal being die?" There are varying beliefs about Jesus' position in Heaven prior to His incarnation. I rather simply accept John 1:1-18, John 14:10,11, John 16:27,28, 1 John 5:7, that Jesus came forth from God. Did He come out as a Divine Being in the presence of God, to be made a human for the sake of death, or did God take His Own Word & give Him flesh for this very purpose? We don't have a problem of God sending out His Spirit & the Spirit's indwelling in every believer (can He even be dissected?), but to send His Word out, clothe Him in a body, unnerves many.
"How can an immortal being die? How can God be tempted...How can God die?" God is Spirit - He is Immortal - He can never die. No one, having a spirit from God, can die - the body will perish, but who can destroy the spirit which cannot be touched by age or man's devices? But if the immortal is given a body, as Jesus received, or even as we also have to house our spirits, then the body will die but the spirit lives on. Can God take on flesh? A mystery no human can fully fathom, but truly "a body hast thou prepared me" ( Hebrews 10:5-7, taken from Psalm 40:6-8). So Jesus could be tempted & could die whilst in the body, and so in His complete identification with sinful men in need of salvation, Philippians 2:6-8 reminds us:
"Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross." "thought it not robbery" = Jesus didn't grasp onto/retain His equality with God, but 'emptied Himself' ('ekenosen'), laying aside His Glory, to become a Man, obedient to death that which was the Father's Plan.
This word was used to characterize our believing scripture like 1 John 5:7. You called it a trinity "doctrine" but I just call it reading the Bible as written. So, if you think my belief is a doctrine then I suppose your belief is a doctrine- that would only be fair. Just want a level playing field for whatever is discussed.
I think believing the Bible as written is important without distortion or bias, but I believe many things discussed in forums like this, such as the trinity, are not salvation issues. I've never met another Christian who has ever believed this, either. There are more that believe baptism, tithing or taking communion are higher on the essentials list than believing in trinity. Some churches have pastors that don't agree on the trinity. It is admittedly a confusing concept that humans cannot easily relate to, because we don't have 1 be 3 things and also 3 be 1 in our world.
God is greater than our comprehension and I trust that when God's Word says things like John 1:1 or 1 John 5:7 that it is true. I am aware of your objection with the translation, but I believe it is already accurately translated and other scriptures support it too. I also think there's a tendency to target the translation for verses people don't like, but often the verses people do like aren't equally dissected. This leads to a distorted understanding in my opinion.
I'm curious what you think about the last two verses shared about Jesus being the Alpha and Omega. To me that says that Jesus is God, but I'm sure you've read this before and have reconciled this with your belief somehow, so I'm open to hearing that. But if you want to save it for another day that's fine too. God bless.
I did some searching online and couldn't yet find any church that believes what you said. A website for Orthodox Christians also said you don't have to believe in trinity to be saved, so I question the validity of this belief.
Is the goal of this is to demean Christians who believe what the Bible says about God in John 1:1, 1 John 5:7? Believing what the Bible says is not a doctrine, but denying it or twisting it can be considered a manmade doctrine.
"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." Revelation 1:8 KJV
The Alpha and Omega is the Lord Jesus.
"And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son."
Revelation 21:6-7
This says the Alpha and Omega "will be his God". Do you agree?
Does this not plainly say that the Lord Jesus is God?
If Jesus was not God, then why would the Bible say so many times that He IS God, like in John 1:1, 1 Timothy 3:16, Isaiah 9:6, and His own name Immanuel means "God with us". One would think if God wrote a Bible to convince us that Him dying for us was not Him but someone else and to tell us that salvation is from someone else and not through Him, then why would it say so many times Jesus is God. People called Him God, His name was God, He has the power of God, and the Bible says He is God. But I'm supposed to believe that He isn't though?
Thank you, you are correct I believe in one God the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ as most of the greetings in the epistles Ephesians 6:23 1 Thessalonians 1:1 and more, and nowhere is this doctrine taught in the New Testament that we must believe for salvation.
It is like Matthew 28:19 the baptizing in the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit but nowhere do we see it in the New Testament all were baptized in the name of Jesus and only in the name of Jesus are we saved. My study of 1 John 5:7 is that it was added from the Latin Vulgate and was not in the original text, but that can be debated.
I understand I am in the minority and have discussed this before. We can find Scripture to fit a doctrine, but can we find Scripture where the doctrine was taught? I have not found where the Trinity doctrine is taught. Like Genesis 1:26 there are many beings in heaven and the word us does not say God was speaking to Jesus, that is an assumption.
Thank you again for discussing this in a loving and respectful manor, this subject is deep and as long as we have love for each other, and truth is what we are in search of.
God bless,
RLW
Evidence I see so far indicates that most references to God are triune. One, singular, but triune God. Not 3 Gods, one God. As hard as it is to comprehend the Bible gives a distinction within God between the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost.
When God is mentioned in the Bible, does it mostly mean the Godhead (trinity 1 John 5:7) or does it mostly mean God the Father?
"I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living." Matthew 22:32 KJV
Jesus is saying this and quoting scripture.
Is God in this verse, for example, the Godhead or the Father?
"But whom say ye that I am?"An opinionated man has his opinion as a man of faith has faith which is Person specific. This faith has its origin which is hearing the word of God.("So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."-Ro.10:17) When Jesus asked,"Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?""And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophet." All these were right since God the Father had revealed it to them. All these association across passage of time and place like strands was woven to connect the Son of man. Faith is one and the Gospel is one. The Spirit lays down the Fulness of God in the Son since the word built up faith which conquers the world. ("For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith."- 1 John 5:4)
We shall try to understand this from the very words of Jesus. Concerning the rejection he received from the nation of Israel he quoted from the Psalm to say, "Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner" and of himself,"And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder." (21:44-46)He was warning the 'the chief priests and Pharisees' who when they had heard, "they perceived that he spake of them." He asserted that the rock was his Person. His victory was that overcame their world and opinions that meant little.
It is in this context we need understand this verse,"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."(v.18). St Peter's claim to the keys is as that of his associate.These symbolic key is with the Son, "he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;"(Re.3:7) The Apostle never made a claim over it in his epistles.
1 John 5:21 "little children keep yourselves from idols. Amen "
Why would God allow this kind of distraction away from Himself and why would anyone want to be distracted away from Him? Catholics do the same thing with Mary but there are no scriptures telling us not to worship her but we know it's wrong because it's idolatry, well so is asking "grandma May" to help me pass a test God Bless. :)
"At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes./ Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight."
Compare this line with Lucan Gospel "In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight." Identical verses, is it not? But it tags altogether two different set of events to establish that heaven and the earth agree in the Son.
Seventy other disciples signify the end times while the twelve refer to the Son who was sent to the earth as the Word become flesh."And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."(v.8) While what justifies the other Seventy is the Word. "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."( 1 John 5:7) The Spirit conflates both in terms of the Word which validates this verse.
While studying the multiplying of loaves we see a similar tag. 12 baskets of broken remains is how Jesus testifies his work as the Word become flesh. ("And they took up of the fragments that remained twelve baskets full."-14:20). As the Son his testimony is tagged by Seven.("And they took up of the broken meat that was left seven baskets full,"-15:37) Jesus Christ as the Son, his deity is revealed. His humanity in terms of the tag 12 so he that sanctified and he that is sanctified are as one."For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,"(He.2:11-18). Principle of Association works for everyone born of God. 1 John 5:11-12
Christ's argument is: If your law calls judges gods, why should I be held guilty of blasphemy for saying that I am the Son of God?
As per the other argument trying to discredit the word "one" sounds like your argument is that one doesn't really mean one, because Jesus used it to describe believers being one. I don't see how being one in unity as Christ's body somehow means that all the Bible verses about Jesus being God and divine suddenly don't apply? The verse about the Father and Son being one is only one of MANY verses competing the picture. The Bible already says Jesus the Word is God so how can you disregard that?
God: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1 KJV
You: Word was "NOT" God?
"Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also." John 8:19 KJV
Have you thought about how your belief reconciles with verses like this above?
Isaiah 7:14 -
Yes, Jesus is called Immanuel which means "God with us". People called Jesus "God". He's King of King and Lord of Lords. Alpha and Omega, first and last. Do you believe Jesus is Lord? I believe that is a requirement for even being a Christian. A Christ follower should know who Christ is.
1 John 5:7-8
John 10:30
John 8:19
Genesis 1:26
Genesis 11:6-7 (plural "us" which includes Jesus, as per John 1:1)
Philippians 2:5-8
2 Corinthians 5:19
John 1:3
Matthew 28:19
1 Peter 1:2
2 Corinthians 13:14
Deuteronomy 6:4
John 14:10
John 20:28
1 John 2:22-24
Matthew 1:23-25
Colossians 2:9
Acts 17:29
Romans 1:20
Isaiah 7:14
Hebrews 1:8
Isaiah 44:6
Isaiah 43:11
Yes, this has been discussed before. There are those who believe Jesus is God, and those who don't. I know where you stand, and you know where I stand. I'm glad to know that you also disagree with both the Mormon and JW's view on who Jesus is. Many cult groups deny the deity of Jesus Christ, and also deny that He is God.
I wasn't speaking about the trinity although I believe in a Triune God. This comes mainly from Colossians 2:9. I'm not sure if there's a clearer statement than that! In Christ dwells all the fullness of the Godhead, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, in bodily form! In 1 John 5:20, there are two great statements of fact; Jesus Christ is the true God, and He is the eternal life!
I didn't know that today in Christianity, salvation is dependent on the belief in the Trinity doctrine. I stand with you when I say that I don't believe that is a requirement for salvation. The bible teaches that salvation is obtained by surrendering one's life to Jesus Christ and being born from above.
Your questions are fair and might challenge someone to question their belief as Jesus being God. A fair question was also asked in Mark 2:5-8. To a man who was sick of the palsy, Jesus said, "thy sins be forgiven thee." For that, the scribes accused Jesus of blasphemy. Their question was "Who can forgive sins but God only?" Good question! God is the only one who can forgive sins, so why is this man (Jesus) committing blasphemy?
This is not the first time He was accused of blasphemy. He was accused of blasphemy for making Himself equal with God, claiming to be the Son of God, which to those who heard Him, they understood very well that the phrase "Son of God" was the same as claiming to be God. So, they had every right to accuse Him of blasphemy, unless of course Jesus was (and is) God, which I believe He is!
Ronald, thank you so much for reading my original 2-part post, and thank you for sharing your belief on this important topic. Blessings to you also!
(Part 1 of 2):
Thank you for sharing your understanding on this topic. I always enjoy my discussions with you. We are in agreement that God is love. In fact, God is Agape, the highest form of love that exists. We are in agreement that God does not have pleasure in the death of the wicked. That's why He has provided a way for the wicked to be redeemed. We are in agreement that God does not want us to perish. Some take this word perish to mean cease to exist completely. Some teach annihilation. That, I do not agree with. I also don't agree that Hell is only the grave because both believers and non-believers alike are going to end up in a grave (unless the Lord comes for us first).
I agree that the bible tells in Ezekiel Chapter 18 that the soul that sinneth shall die. I believe it is the soul that makes up our entire being. Can our fleshly body exist without a soul? As far as salvation goes, did Christ come to redeem our flesh, or did He come to redeem our soul? I say that my soul has been redeemed, not my flesh. My flesh is rotten to the core! I agree that there are different degrees of punishment, but as you know, I also believe that whatever the degree of punishment is, it will be forever.
In my studies of the Greek, I have come to learn that the word for death means separation. This is why I believe that when our physical body of flesh dies, our soul will separate from our fleshly body. The body will rot and decay in the grave, not cease to exist as some say. I do not believe in soul sleep.
I do agree with you that eternal life is a promise. However, what we differ on is when this eternal life begins. For me, I believe I have eternal life right now. There are several verses in scripture that speak of eternal life/salvation being present tense ( 1 John 5:11, 1 John 5:13, John 17:3, John 10:28-30, John 3:36, John 4:14, 1 Timothy 6:12). These are just some verses that speak of eternal salvation being present, not future.
Part 2 to follow...
JESUS said for the Devil: Matthew 4:4 - Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD that proceedeth out of the MOUTH of GOD.
Where is written "every Word that proceeded out of the MOUTH of GOD"?
Maatthew 11: 27 - ...no MAN knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any MAN the Father, save the Son, and he TO WHOMSOEVER the Son WILL REVEAL HIM.
1 John 5:19-20
19 And we know that we are of GOD, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
20 And we know that the Son of GOD is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know Him that is true, and we are in Him that is true, even in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true GOD, and eternal life.
John 3:3 and 5 and 17-21:
3 ... Except a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of GOD.
5 ... Except a MAN be born of water(of the Word of GOD) and of the Spirit(the Word is Spirit), he cannot enter into the Kingdom of GOD.
17 For GOD sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on Him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of GOD.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in GOD.
This passage is one of my favorite verses as it reminds me to keep my mind on things that edify and that the Holy Spirit can use to sanctify my mind. Keeping my mind stayed on Jesus, who is our most precious friend of all helps me to appreciate Him as Savior, Lord and God. Blessings to you Fast Demas Red 500
Philippians 4:8
King James Version
8Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
Well done! It's me and it is done.
Pray for understanding.
It is written in
Revelation 1:3,KJV
3.Blessed is he that readeth,
and they that hear the words of this prophecy,
and keep those things which are written therein:
for the time is at hand.
My recommendation to all the Christian who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, those using this online tool. Get yourself familiarise with the Hebrew and Greek languages of scripture (interlinear bible) and if By the grace of God Study both Languages
-In the Hebrew the word God and Heaven is revealed to us (Human-Beings) in Plural
-Elohim =GOD which singular Eloah and in Plural ELOHIM.
-Heaven= eshmim which is the heavens in Plural .
-Therefore, when you Read in Genesis 1:20 you will be confronted with this fact God says Let us which is in Plural Indicting One Yet Three in the Scriptures.
-Mind you this Fact is found All over the Scripture and it is written in 1 John 5:7, KJV
7.For there are three that bear record in heaven,
the Father, the Word, and
the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
(Time is at Hand we are living at the end of days.)
Repent of your sins and do not be deceive Amen.
ACT 2:38, KJV
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
I am not confused by 1 John 5:7, but you have to included 1 John 5:8 to come to truth.
There are three that bear record in heaven and three that bear record on earth, that makes SIX that are ONE.
The three that bear record in heaven is GOD: God is the Father, God is the Word and God is the Holy Ghost, they are just different references to GOD, they are ONE.
The three that bear record on earth is CHRIST: Christ the Spirit, Christ the water, and Christ the blood, they are just different references to CHRIST, they are ONE.
God bears record in heaven, Christ bears record on earth, TWO not THREE, otherwise it is SIX that are ONE.
God BLESS YOU!
God BLESS YOU!
I'm not sure why you are so confused regarding 1 John 5:7.
1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
The verse states (3) three bear record in heaven. Not 2, and Not 4.. but 3. Easy to understand.
God loves the meek, the humble, the poor and the trodden down. He wants these simple people to read and understand His message because they will inherent the Kingdom.
I will leave you with this verse my friend. Titus 1:15 "Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled."
True, I have not found the word trinity in the Bible, and it is a man made word to explain the (3) that bear witness in heaven.
The bible tells us the following:
Genesis 1:26
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
In the above verse it says: "And God said, Let US make in our own image,
Who is God referring to when He says US? God could have said I will make, but instead He said "Let US make"
I believe that we find the answer to who the US is, in this verse:
1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
There are three that bear record in heaven!
The word Trinity meaning:
-the Christian Godhead as one God in three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
-a group of three people or things
People refer to: trinity, triune, etc.
There are (3) entities in heaven, God, the Son, and the Holy Spirit! Amen
When I made that statement I was speaking in a general sense. I see what you mean, but to be honest I don't think either of us will know for sure how the "mechanics" of how that may work. We can only go by what Scripture states or reveals to us. You might be correct for those who sin and didn't repent before they died unexpectedly.. We just don't have an exact explanation or example or parable for us to enlight us further to a situation such as that. So I'm afraid we have to assume a bit. Kinda brings to mind something I read from Spurgeon about the "sin that leads to death" found in 1 John 5:16-17 some things we just don't know?Refer to his "illustration" below:
5:16-17 "There is sin that leads to death.... All unrighteousness is sin." Perhaps someone thinks he has committed this unpardonable sin and is at this moment grieving over it. If so, it is clear that he cannot have committed the "sin that leads to death," or else he could not grieve over it. Whoever repents of sin and trusts in Jesus Christ is freely and fully forgiven; therefore, he has clearly not committed a sin that will not be forgiven. There is much in this passage to make us prayerful and watchful, but there is nothing here to make a troubled heart feel anything like despair.
ILLUSTRATION 5:16
An owner of a country estate may put up a sign that reads, "Danger: Beware of traps and spring guns." No one would think of going to the front door of the mansion and saying, "Would you please tell me where the traps and spring guns are set?" If we asked that question, the answer would be, "The purpose of this warning is not to tell you where they are, for you have no business to trespass there at all." So "all unrighteousness is sin," and we are warned to keep clear of it. "There is sin that leads to death," but we are not told what that sin is on purpose that we may, by the grace of God, keep clear of sin altogether.
"A true believer,(one who has been born of Gods Spirit)will never hear the words"depart from me,I never knew you."
What you said is confimed by the Word of GOD through our Lord JESUS Christ, saying:"All that the Father(the Word)giveth me shall come to me;and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out"- John 6:37.
The Word is GOD, so the Word in our heart is literally GOD in our heart-Hallelujah!Great is our GOD.GOD is our life, the life that He gives unto the true believers through JESUS( 1John 5:10 explains literally who has and has not the life),true believers BELIEVED in the testimony that GOD gave of His Son.
1 John 5:19-20 :
19 And we know that we are of GOD, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
20 And we know that the Son of GOD is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know Him that is true, and we are in Him that is true, even in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
Matthew 11:27 - All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal Him.
John 17:6-11
6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy Word.
7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, KEEP through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be One, as we are. AMEN.AMEN. AMEN. Praise GOD.
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the Heaven and the earth. (Literal, or you stuck here)
1 John 5:7 For there are Three (Literal: 1,2,3) that bear record in Heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these Three are one (Figurative to Literal: They are God, One in Unity or One in agreeance, There at the Beginning, etc)
The Word is GOD, GOD the Father, two thousand years ago the Word -GOD- was made flesh, and the NAME He chose for He Himself was JESUS( John 1:18).
Hebrews 1:2-3:- 2 In these last days (last two days) GOD has spoken unto us by His Son,whom He hath appointed heir of all things,by whom also He made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of His Glory, and the EXPRESS IMAGE OF GOD's PERSON -the Word-...He sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high.
1 John 5:7 - There are THREE that (TESTIFY)bear record in heaven,the Father(the Person of GOD the Father-the Word),the Word (GOD Son-the Word made flesh-JESUS),and the Holy Spirit-the Paraclete,the Confort- John 16:12-15 combined with Jn 15:26 (who is not a ghost as is written in English language, but a Person, actually the Ancient of Days- Daniel 7:22, and the God of the earth- Revelation 11:4):these three are One.
By the way, Judgment was(will be) given to the saints of the most High;the time came that the saints possessed(will posses)the kingdom-Dan.7:22-(in LITERAL fulfillment of Rev.11:15to18.Take a look.)
Unfortunatelly, Your thinking is from a human perspective,a stumblingblock,not from GOD's perspective.Who is of the earth is earthly,and speaks of the earth- John 3:31-who is from above is above all.
JESUS said:He that believeth on me,as the Scriptures-the Bible- hath said,out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water- Jn 7:38.And more:Search the Scriptures(the Bible);for in them ye think ye have Eternal Life:and they are they which testify of me- Jn 5:39.
JESUS said to the Devil:Man shall not live by bread alone,but by every word that proceedeth out of the MOUTH of GOD-Mat.4:4. By the way,GOD who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,Hath in these last days(last two Days or two millenia)spoken unto us by His Son,whom He has appointed heir of all things,by whom also he made the worlds-Heb.1:1-3
Be careful or get ready
The Word is GOD,self-executing