The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be. ( Genesis 49:10)
If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. ( 1 Peter 4:11)
When taking a look at scripture; there are roles women play as Prophetess; prayer; teaching children; or the "virtuous woman" summing up Proverbs 31. When it comes to the 10 Commandments and the laws of the Lord in the Old Testament; or the rules about women remaining silent in the New Testament ( 1 Corinthians 14:34-35) it seems in regard to instruction in law continues as a man's responsibility. That would have further implications in regard to teaching established DOCTRINE related to the law; or the Gospel of Grace which expounds the full meaning of what is concealed in the Old Testament but revealed fully now.
When we try to fully grasp these concepts in human understanding; of course we fall short. An example that gives us insight is in Exodus 15:20 which shows Miriam; the older sister of Moses and Aaron as the first Prophetess in scripture. We could say in some way that Moses acted as the first Prophet in the Bible; at least in predicting what would happen to Israel in the last days in Deuteronomy 4; but Deuteronomy 18 talks about the coming Prophet like Moses who must be heeded (Christ). Technically Abraham was called a Prophet; the first example in the Bible but his predictions were toward his descendants when giving the family blessings at his death.
We see with Miriam that she foolishly spoke out about the second wife of Abraham of African descent and was struck with leprosy temporarily. Her best moment was in the role of the victory song as they crossed the Red Sea.
The real question is what is the goal: to please God or please man? We already know what God wants because its written down and is clear what it means. Naturally, some will try to twist that to mean whatever else they want it to mean, but that doesn't make it true. God knows our hearts when we try to distort the truth.
What does the Word of GOD say? 2Peter 3:8 - 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one Day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one Day.
So, what matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, self-executing, understand?
We should know that 6000 years after Adam are pointing midnight at GOD's clock, so it is the turn from the sixth to the seventh Day, and Day of GOD's rest, so it is the END of the sixth and beginning of the seventh and last millennium, or seventh and last Day, the LORD's Day. But actually have already passed around 23 years, something like minites at GOD's clock.
Wake up, be careful, and get ready - Matthew 25:6. Take a look.
Lord JESUS will return in the day 1335 of this current millennium according the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD, self-executing.
Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand- Daniel 12:10.
If the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? 1 Corinthians 14:8
Great question! How do you interpret something you don't understand? You can't. It is impossible to interpret something without first understanding what is being spoken.
Something that might help in understanding 1 Corinthians 14:13 is that the word interpret means explain. It does not mean translate. There are three point-blank facts the bible teaches on speaking in tongues.
Number 1: It is a known language. Not necessarily known to the person speaking, but it is a human language.
Number 2: It is a sign.
Number 3: It is to unbelievers, not believers.
The only example given to us is in Acts 2:1-13. Those who were speaking in tongues were speaking in known languages. There was no need for anyone to interpret or translate the tongues being spoken. In fact, in Acts 2:8, it says "And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?"
You see, they were not looking for someone to interpret or translate what was being said. Those who were speaking in tongues were speaking in known languages and it was understood by those who were hearing them speak. Acts 2:9-11 gives us a list of the languages from which they were speaking. And then Acts 2:12 says that "they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?"
So, they were all amazed, and they were in doubt, saying one to another, what does this mean? Again, they weren't asking for anyone to interpret what they heard. They were needing an explanation. They're not asking what they were saying when they asked, "what does this mean?" They said we can hear them in our own languages, but what does this mean? They admit that it's a miracle, but they really don't know what's going on.
It's sad that what many call "speaking in tongues" today is not the tongues the bible teaches. The tongues in the bible were actual known human languages, not a bunch of babbling gibberish sounds that no one, not even the person speaking can understand.
Jesus set me free from the bar business and I got baptized in Jesus name Acts 2:38,39
Luke 24:47,48Mark 16:16,17 I received the Holy Ghost Acts 5:32Acts 2:4. 1 Corinthians 14: 2,22,39
John 3:1-6Acts 19:1-6. 1 Peter 3:21Proverbs 11:30. John 21:15 it is essential for Salvation to be baptized in Jesus name Acts 4:12 and be filled with His Holy Ghost power speaking in a brand new tongue Acts 2:4 , and live a holy life loving Jesus and loving others !
I'm going to politely assume you grew up Pentecostal and that's when you were told that speaking in tongues was proof of salvation. That just isn't true and I'll show you why.
1 Corinthians 14:26-28 is just saying if you are speaking in a tongue/another language you need an interpreter. Tongues were known languages. You see, tongues is used to say that they are speaking in a language they weren't taught. Proof of this is in Genesis 10:5 where the world was split because of the building of the tower of Babel, and God gave them each a different language or tongue.
Now the New Testament understanding of tongues is that you are filled with the spirit and in turn you can speak in tongues of other languages. That was completely reserved for the first century church and here is why:
1. It was clearly not a sign of salvation ( 1 Corinthians 14:22)
a. It was for the Jews ( 1 Corinthians 14:21) "This people" is God talking about Jews.
2. It was done away with ( 1 Corinthians 13:8-10)
a. "Tongues shall cease": the meaning of "that which is perfect" means the completion of scripture. So when Revelation was finished by the apostle John, tongues ceased.
3. Proof of salvation is by our works and not by signs ( James 2:14-19)
4. Tongues was never received after baptism, but after receiving the Holy Spirit ( Acts 10:44-48, Acts 19:6)
a. After receiving the Holy Ghost they would speak in tongues, it was not when they were baptized.
5. Tongues are not necessary ( 1 Corinthians 14:19)
As clearly seen, tongues were merely a sign for the Jews that was used by Spirit filled Christians which was done away with after scripture was completed; not proof of salvation. Salvation is completely through Christ and Christ alone. Romans 5:8, 6:23, 10:9, 10:23, and John 14:6. You don't need tongues to tell you that you are saved, you need the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
If you would like more elaboration, just respond back to this with your questions.
I agree with your statement David, but I think we need to be more specific. I wont call you intoxicated like Frankie did, but I do believe that you are just ignorant to certain scriptures. By ignorant I'm using it as the Bible does in the sense of you just haven't been taught.
So the Bible is the FINAL authority in the Christian life ( 2 Peter 1:19). I agree with Frankie that you need the Holy Spirit to discern the things of God in His word. The Bible clearly states that in 1 Peter 1:11-12. The Bible also says that we need a preacher, because how can we hear without one ( Romans 10:14). So the Bible was given by the Holy Spirit/God and needs to be discerned through that, because the Bible is of no private interpretation ( 2 Peter 1:20-21). God had a specific meaning for each word and only He can tell us what that is.
I also believe what the Bible says in Acts 2:17 that in the last days people will prophesy, have dreams, and visions. If the Bible says it, then it's true. That being said, since the Bible is the final authority, if anything they say happened in the prophesy, dream, or vision that goes against the Bible, then it's a false dream.
Here's how to discern if they are truly a "prophet" in the sense of them prophesying, dreaming, and having visions:
1. Does it follow scripture ( 2 Peter 3:16)
2. Look at their fruits ( Matthew 7:15-20)
3. It doesn't breed confusion ( 1 Corinthians 14:29-33)
4. It is of the Holy Ghost/Jesus ( 1 Corinthians 12:1-3, John 16:13-15)
I hope this was a help to you and there is definitely more studying that can go into this, but that's about the summary of this.
Biblical authority should come first in a Christian heart . If it contradicts the Word then where does it come from ? I'm sure we all know that the word devil is also meant as a ' deceiver ' . If we stick to what the Bible says we will not be deceived , the Spirit of Truth never contradicts the Word of God .
We are part of a church that still believes that a woman shouldn't teach nor usurp authority over a man. ( 1 Tim. 2:11,12). Women still have a role in teaching children and guiding the house. Just a proper order. In America we have lost some of these concepts through different "movements" and there is pressure for the church to follow along. Maybe that is also why we have some of the "gender identity" issues in America.
1 Corinthians 11:4 discusses a woman praying or prophesying with a head covering; hence the concept of silence is only perhaps in a formal service. It also may suggest that asking questions as a distraction isn't to happen rather than the concept of always remaining silent.
These verses also show the limit of a woman in regard to expression in worship settings since they are not to have authority over a man ( 1 Timothy 2:12). This fairly well mirrors the Old Testament where at least in the Book of Judges and a few other instances there were women acting as a Prophetess. There were no female priests at least with Judaism; these occurred with pagan rights quite often; however. It will be noted the consistency in messages at that time with God's overall plan in other texts as well as overall history. Judges 4:9 is an interesting passage with Deborah predicting victory in Sisera at the hands of a woman; perhaps that is one reason God used her. It is also said the lack of visions and available male prophets at the time may have necessitated God using her in this occasion.
There are cases where women would praise God in a prophetic manner; in Exodus 15 Moses started off with a victory song; and Miriam joined in later in verses 20-21. This shows they were in one accord.
If we survey what are the fruits or results of women who take on roles forbidden in scripture usually we see spurious doctrine manifest. 1 Samuel 15:23 reminds us that rebellion is as witchcraft. We see quite often the other half of the problem; namely men that are unwilling to take on the role as head of the household and the responsibilities in worship services. Thus we have a major part of the breakdown of society.
Women also need to fully take on teaching their children; guiding younger women as well as evangelizing to women in this generation; albeit perhaps leaving some more dangerous assignments to men. A woman with more intellegence can help men behind the scenes.
The phenomenon of speaking in Tongues was a legitimate means by which God spoke directly to Believers and the Church before the Bible was completed. And God laid down very specific rules for how that was to occur. It is interesting that God makes a distinction in 1 Cor 14 between the value of Tongues in the early Church verses Prophesying. And every True Believer is indeed a "prophet" as they faithfully declare the Word of God.
Once the Bible was completed with the book of Revelation, God declared in Rev 22:18 that He would never again speak directly to mankind apart from the Bible itself.
I am personally convinced that God allowed this phenomenon of Tongues in the early Church before the Bible had been completed as a testing program for our Day as to whether the Church and individuals would be satisfied with the Bible Alone as our Authority. Or would there be an insistence in additional Devine Revelation in addition to the Bible itself.
And is it not amazing how the Tongues phenomena and interest in Signs and Wonders has spread like wild fire with the charismatic movement during the last few decades.
This is just another evidence as to why our understanding of the Nature of the Bible is so very important in our Day.
Corinthians chapter 14 verse 34 & 35, did man change the meaning, because 22:18 & 22:19 say man cannot add or take away from this book. explain. thanks
The church beyond five senses: the spiritual realm (cont)
Continuing the thought of the invisible realm (see John 20:29); we begin to understand the promises of God's protection of His saints ( Psalm 91:11; Isaiah 52:12) through the angels; we see how to correctly "bind and loose" ( Matt. 16:19); how to align more closely to what Christ is interceding in our behalf in seeking His will ( Heb. 7:25); and of course see those in bondage loosed from Satan's grip ( Luke 4:18-19) taken from Isaiah 61:1.
Those who love Him keep His commandments ( John 14:21) and originally found in Deuteronomy 7:9. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom ( Proverbs 9:10 but found many other places in scripture).
For a case study; let us examine 1 Corinthians 14:22-25 where we have tongues and prophecy as applying to unbelievers in one verse then switch to believers in the next verses. This means that evidence of the power of God needs to be present AND a clear message relatable to the sinner or saint present given. In reality there cannot be a supernatural manifestation of the Spirit WITHOUT a piercing of the soul ( Hebrews 4:12) that is of course accompanied by the Gospel as the rest of the verse indicates. It also shows how a church must be corrected as He chastises all His own (found further on in Hebrews 12 verse 6).
The fact that some spiritual activity is occuring isn't evidence that God is at work; it could be demons. The fact that this was still a place where His Spirit was at work was evident in the fact that Paul's severe discipline had results; and that right quick (as the Brits like to say). This is clear from chapter 7 of 2 Corinthians. As I started off this discourse; I mentioned the Ephesians. They were threatened with total removal of their candlestick in Revelation 2. Therefore; being dead would be worse than immature; even with all the correct doctrines and outer actions; ceremonies; etc.
I'm of the opinion 1 Timothy 2:12 is saying women should not admonish , nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. since women are easily deceived as was Eve , and not Adam in the Garden
The disturbances in 1 Corinthians 14:34 is suffice to say .
I find it absurd to think women are not to teach the Gospel , nor prophesy all throughout this dispensation of time , but then are permitted to in the end times where sons and daughters shall prophesy written of in the book of Joel 2:28 .
I just think there's something more to the word "teach" in 1 Timothy 2:12 - 15 .
There are no passages where women were said to be preaching a sermon. Paul makes it clear as to their role in church not having "authority" over a man ( 1 Timothy 2:12). 1 Corinthians 14:34 shows where women were told to be silent in churches and ask questions at home. The fact that women are mentioned prophesying and praying in corporate worship certainly doesn't mean that nothing can be said ( 1 Cor. 11:5). The qualifier here should be noted that women were asking questions and likely causing other disturbances during a worship service. It fits in with the idea of orderly worship in what was the most disorderly church mentioned in scripture in Corinth.
There is certainly agreement anywhere that I know of in traditional and Reformed circles that women have a role in teaching children and also guiding other women in knowledge of the scriptures. This is clear from the women that Paul Himself commends such as Lydia ( Acts 16:11-15 and elsewhere). There was teaching of Godly men who were children of women as well that are mentioned. There are also rules for Christian women as well as men whose spouses were not believers in regard to staying with them if they were agreeable and in some sense; "winning them over" ( 1 Peter 3:2). The concept of submission is clear in scripture as to women; as well as husbands loving in a sacrificial manner as Christ loved the church ( Eph. 5:25). Many men would like to bypass their responsibilities in this regard.
As to any sort of public forum outside a large congregational formal worship service obviously there are gray areas. I would challenge you to find ANY female preachers that are not in some serious doctrinal error (although men are getting harder to find today as well). I have certainly read brilliant writings such as Amy Van Gerpen's book on Revelation (which may finally be complete after years of work). I don't think she does self promoting; but in my opinion it has the most detailed cross references anywhere.
Hello Duncan. I agree with you about 1. (but not that demonic you say) and 3. But let's talk about 2.
Should one pray in unknown tongues? Let's see what the Bible says about that.
Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 14:1-5
"1 - Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy
2 - For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, BUT UNTO GOD (so tongues are for speaking to God not to people): for no man understandeth him (because he talks in unknown tongues/foreign languages) ; howbeit in the spirit (so it is the Spirit who gives those tongues) he speaketh mysteries (no one understands).
3 - But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4 - HE THAT SPEAKETH IN AN UNKNOWN TONGUE EDIFIETH HIMSELF; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5 - I WOULD THAT YE ALL SPAKE WITH TONGUES, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret (so no one understands if there is nobody who can interprete), that the church may receive edifying"
a. So, Paul suggests that all should speak(pray) in tongues.(verse 5).
b. When one speaks in unknown tongues then what they say is for God, they glorify God (verse 2)
c. It is the Spirit who gives tongues (verse 2), nobody understands (verse 2), unless there is somebody who can interprete (verse 5)
d. The purpose that the Spirit gives tongues to somebody is for him to be edified (sanctified) (verse 4)
Some other points about tongues as well.
1 Cor 14:18 "I (Paul) thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all"
1 Cor 14:15 "What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also." So one may pray or praise with their mind (so they know what they say) or with the Spirit (so they don't know what they say)
There is more... But how about talking about prophesing?
There are churches who believe that speaking in tonuges were only for the early period of the church and churches who believe that they are for all ages. The former ones are usually the ones that do not have them occuring in their function mainly the Catholics and Eastern Orthodox churches and many Protestant churches. The latter are called Charismatic or Pentecostal churches.
So I have a question and my question is. If the tongues were only for that early period like all those spiritual gifts described in 1 Corinthians 12:4-11 why were they included by the Holly Spirit in the Bible? What was God's purpose talking about things that will not occur during the vast majority of the existence of the church? Why didn't God give instructions for some other function of the church to follow later on? Why God keeps us busy reading about history things? Just for historical knowledge? No other purpose?
Is there a verse in the Bible that suggests that those things were for the past only? I cannot find any.
The verse you wrote about ( 1 Cor 13:8-10) is refering to a future time when we will be in Heaven. Then knowledge, prophesy, tongues will cease. There will be no reason for those then.
But now, 1 Corinthians 14:1-5
"Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying."
Please read those carefully. (Oh please God, don't waste my time with past things that do not occur now. Or they still occur now?)
Should one pray loudly in tonques in church? 1 Corinthians 14:26-29
"How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
BUT IF THERE BE NO INTERPRETER, LET HIM KEEP SILENCE IN THE CHURCH; AND LET HIM SPEAK TO HIMSELF, AND TO GOD.
Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge."
Oh sorry those were for the past times too. So what is it for us now? How should our churches function now? Where are the directions for us now? Which scripture?
Dear Ray. the Holly Spirit is not like a magic stick that will transform a frog to a prince. God's Spirit does not violate our free will and our free choices. It is given to us by God as a spiritual weapon to help us in our fight against sin. But we have to want to fight against sin, If we don't then the Spirit can not do anything (without our permission) or does as much as we allow Him to do. So one may be baptized in the Spirit and their life are still a mess because they do not allow the Spirit changing them. So do not wonder if you see people like the ones you mentioned. They do exist in every church.
I don't think the leadership of your church push people speaking in tongues. They probably try to push or encourage people to ask for the baptism of the Holly Spirit which is shown externally by speaking in tongues.
You said you disagree that the Holy Spirit would reveal things beyond what is already written.
But there are many Biblical passages that say things will be revealed
I respectfully challenge you to please show me the Biblical passages to support your thoughts as I have done below to support the Spirit of God will reveal things, today.
If the testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of prophecy, how can there not be more prophecy?
How then could we say we have a testimony of Jesus but not believe in revelation?
When we pray to God for guidance, can the Spirit not help direct us today?
An angel appeared to Cornelius and told him to call for Peter and Peter brought Cornelius the Gospel.
Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares. ( Hebrews 13:2)
Do you believe angels are among us?
Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation? ( Hebrews 1:14)
And how can the Scripture be fulfilled Paul saying,
for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; ( 2 Thessalonians 2:3)
Even the Saints in the early days received revelations
If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. ( 1 Corinthians 14:27)
If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. ( 1 Corinthians 14 30-31)
How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. ( 1 Corinthians 14:26)
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. ( Romans 8:9)
Man was first form by god then he needed a help meat not help mate food..man then wo man pronounce in english woman. jeus had 12 disciples neither of them was a wo man boy!! will the wo mens give us hell now man we open up a can of worms!!!....peace....
Hiya Willie GBU...But under this new Covenant Gal 3:28....There is no more Jew or Gentile Bond or free Male or Female....WE are all one in Christ Jesus.
.....Willie we are all the same,....we all have to be bornagain of an incorruptible seed even by the words of God the living word as Bro. Peter tells us...without Jesus seed the living word we cannot be bornagain....Thats y he has to know us....Thats when the good seed is sown in our hearts initiating a birth of Christ in us....The son of man...mankinds fruit unto God via hearing his voice...Whosoever receiveth not the Kingdom of God as a lil Child he will in no wise enter there in...GB
Dear "Willie milton", i don't quite understand your intention with this post. Because as far as i can see Hebrews 5:1 has nothing to do with women's periods. Otherwise, i see what you mean and it's right.
The Holy Spirit fills the person who is willing to do God's Will. Jesus Himself had to submit to God.
God bless u in Jesus name, love u in Christ. John 5:1-15
Hello Willie. If by your question you're referring to the state of people today, I would direct you to 2 Timothy chapter 3. For many years now (even decades), I see an increasing propensity by folk to go further away from righteous & holy things, towards self-gratification & carnality. Not just found in mature men & women but also children, taking example from their parents & peers.
Governments give more concern to our physical welfare & equality for all but care little for the spiritual & moral decline that permeates society. And add 'political correctness ' & a weak policing & justice system to the mix, you get the recipe for a degraded & continually deteriorating society, all the while believing man has progressed & ensured happiness for all. There have been many worthwhile developments in all areas of personal & corporate life, but when moral & spiritual decay are left to go unchecked, man has very little to crow about.
Please remember the Holy Ghost came to the woman and left the same stairstep of Dominion that he had from Gen 3:16 just holy now but in God she is still a woman and have to follow the course of this Flesh. All she do in the lord should be under the man's leadership and not leading him .woman have the zeal of God in love but some is not according to knowledge. They need teaching if they are willing to obey then they need teaching . There is no world where the woman can come ahead of the man . This is Satan
God do not contradict himself the holy ghost has nothing to do with the flesh but power over the spirit of the devil .A women and a man have a chores in this word through the flesh and the no male or female is for when we become Angels. A woman still are under Adam and eve law in the flesh and the flesh of a man have the rulership over the woman. The holy spirit will stop a woman for her monthly period nor childbirth nor death . Hebrews 5:1 if a priest is needed and your pastor is dead then then church must
line all qualified males and choose a priest from among men. Numbers 28:1 when god was setting up the priesthood he said call all males from the family of Arron that they may minister to me in the priesthood . God had a women prophetess call Mariam Moses sister. a elder is appointment after one is saved. The holy ghost have nothing to do with putting a woman in authority over a man just over the Devil works. 1Tim 2:11 this was after the holy Ghost had fell Acts 2:1 -21Co 11:3-4 this was written after the Holy Ghost had fell. So why now the women liberation is come now it seems that God have a new thing concerning the Pastor position. if you believe anything out of the scripture you are in False Doctrine and the Bible say's if a Angel from heaven preach any other gospel from what we preach let him be accursed . So it is not what God told the woman she could not do...He told her what to do. Thanks Willie
Add nor takeaway from the word of God. There is no written word of God where a women was ever to be over a man. A pastor is in a position of authority. I will believe what the bible say's and let women keep silent in authority with all subjection .You know what subjection mean's it don't mean dominion.1C 11:3-4 is the stairsteps of dominion .Our churches is out of order with the women's liberation movement defiled the church of God. It is now a perverted and backward doctrine. I will never be under a woman pastor.That is my conviction and I will die with it and you are no one will change me 1+1= two . End of story Thanks
The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be. ( Genesis 49:10)
If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. ( 1 Peter 4:11)
When taking a look at scripture; there are roles women play as Prophetess; prayer; teaching children; or the "virtuous woman" summing up Proverbs 31. When it comes to the 10 Commandments and the laws of the Lord in the Old Testament; or the rules about women remaining silent in the New Testament ( 1 Corinthians 14:34-35) it seems in regard to instruction in law continues as a man's responsibility. That would have further implications in regard to teaching established DOCTRINE related to the law; or the Gospel of Grace which expounds the full meaning of what is concealed in the Old Testament but revealed fully now.
When we try to fully grasp these concepts in human understanding; of course we fall short. An example that gives us insight is in Exodus 15:20 which shows Miriam; the older sister of Moses and Aaron as the first Prophetess in scripture. We could say in some way that Moses acted as the first Prophet in the Bible; at least in predicting what would happen to Israel in the last days in Deuteronomy 4; but Deuteronomy 18 talks about the coming Prophet like Moses who must be heeded (Christ). Technically Abraham was called a Prophet; the first example in the Bible but his predictions were toward his descendants when giving the family blessings at his death.
We see with Miriam that she foolishly spoke out about the second wife of Abraham of African descent and was struck with leprosy temporarily. Her best moment was in the role of the victory song as they crossed the Red Sea.
1 Corinthians 14:34
1 Timothy 2:11-12
The real question is what is the goal: to please God or please man? We already know what God wants because its written down and is clear what it means. Naturally, some will try to twist that to mean whatever else they want it to mean, but that doesn't make it true. God knows our hearts when we try to distort the truth.
What does the Word of GOD say? 2Peter 3:8 - 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one Day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one Day.
So, what matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, self-executing, understand?
We should know that 6000 years after Adam are pointing midnight at GOD's clock, so it is the turn from the sixth to the seventh Day, and Day of GOD's rest, so it is the END of the sixth and beginning of the seventh and last millennium, or seventh and last Day, the LORD's Day. But actually have already passed around 23 years, something like minites at GOD's clock.
Wake up, be careful, and get ready - Matthew 25:6. Take a look.
Lord JESUS will return in the day 1335 of this current millennium according the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD, self-executing.
Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand- Daniel 12:10.
If the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? 1 Corinthians 14:8
Great question! How do you interpret something you don't understand? You can't. It is impossible to interpret something without first understanding what is being spoken.
Something that might help in understanding 1 Corinthians 14:13 is that the word interpret means explain. It does not mean translate. There are three point-blank facts the bible teaches on speaking in tongues.
Number 1: It is a known language. Not necessarily known to the person speaking, but it is a human language.
Number 2: It is a sign.
Number 3: It is to unbelievers, not believers.
The only example given to us is in Acts 2:1-13. Those who were speaking in tongues were speaking in known languages. There was no need for anyone to interpret or translate the tongues being spoken. In fact, in Acts 2:8, it says "And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?"
You see, they were not looking for someone to interpret or translate what was being said. Those who were speaking in tongues were speaking in known languages and it was understood by those who were hearing them speak. Acts 2:9-11 gives us a list of the languages from which they were speaking. And then Acts 2:12 says that "they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?"
So, they were all amazed, and they were in doubt, saying one to another, what does this mean? Again, they weren't asking for anyone to interpret what they heard. They were needing an explanation. They're not asking what they were saying when they asked, "what does this mean?" They said we can hear them in our own languages, but what does this mean? They admit that it's a miracle, but they really don't know what's going on.
It's sad that what many call "speaking in tongues" today is not the tongues the bible teaches. The tongues in the bible were actual known human languages, not a bunch of babbling gibberish sounds that no one, not even the person speaking can understand.
Hope this helps!
Luke 24:47,48 Mark 16:16,17 I received the Holy Ghost Acts 5:32 Acts 2:4. 1 Corinthians 14: 2,22,39
John 3:1-6 Acts 19:1-6. 1 Peter 3:21 Proverbs 11:30. John 21:15 it is essential for Salvation to be baptized in Jesus name Acts 4:12 and be filled with His Holy Ghost power speaking in a brand new tongue Acts 2:4 , and live a holy life loving Jesus and loving others !
Luke 24:47,48 Jesus said!
Mark 16:16,17 Jesus said!
Acts 2:38,39 Peter preached what Jesus said!
Acts 4:12 No other name!
John 3:1-6 Must be born again of the water & Spirit!
1 Peter 3:21 Baptism saves us!
Acts 10:44-48 Can't be good enough without Jesus!
Acts 8:1-6 Ethiopian Eunic gets baptized in Jesus name and starts a 2000 plus year revival still going on today !
Acts 19:1-6 have you received the Holy Ghost since you been a believer?
Acts 5:32 gotta obey Him!
1 Corinthians 14:2,22,39 tongues are for a sign!
Acts 2:4 The Spirit gives the utterance!
Acts 1:8 Receive power !
John 21:15 Jesus loves you dearly!!!!!!!
1 Corinthians 14:26-28 is just saying if you are speaking in a tongue/another language you need an interpreter. Tongues were known languages. You see, tongues is used to say that they are speaking in a language they weren't taught. Proof of this is in Genesis 10:5 where the world was split because of the building of the tower of Babel, and God gave them each a different language or tongue.
Now the New Testament understanding of tongues is that you are filled with the spirit and in turn you can speak in tongues of other languages. That was completely reserved for the first century church and here is why:
1. It was clearly not a sign of salvation ( 1 Corinthians 14:22)
a. It was for the Jews ( 1 Corinthians 14:21) "This people" is God talking about Jews.
2. It was done away with ( 1 Corinthians 13:8-10)
a. "Tongues shall cease": the meaning of "that which is perfect" means the completion of scripture. So when Revelation was finished by the apostle John, tongues ceased.
3. Proof of salvation is by our works and not by signs ( James 2:14-19)
4. Tongues was never received after baptism, but after receiving the Holy Spirit ( Acts 10:44-48, Acts 19:6)
a. After receiving the Holy Ghost they would speak in tongues, it was not when they were baptized.
5. Tongues are not necessary ( 1 Corinthians 14:19)
As clearly seen, tongues were merely a sign for the Jews that was used by Spirit filled Christians which was done away with after scripture was completed; not proof of salvation. Salvation is completely through Christ and Christ alone. Romans 5:8, 6:23, 10:9, 10:23, and John 14:6. You don't need tongues to tell you that you are saved, you need the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
If you would like more elaboration, just respond back to this with your questions.
So the Bible is the FINAL authority in the Christian life ( 2 Peter 1:19). I agree with Frankie that you need the Holy Spirit to discern the things of God in His word. The Bible clearly states that in 1 Peter 1:11-12. The Bible also says that we need a preacher, because how can we hear without one ( Romans 10:14). So the Bible was given by the Holy Spirit/God and needs to be discerned through that, because the Bible is of no private interpretation ( 2 Peter 1:20-21). God had a specific meaning for each word and only He can tell us what that is.
I also believe what the Bible says in Acts 2:17 that in the last days people will prophesy, have dreams, and visions. If the Bible says it, then it's true. That being said, since the Bible is the final authority, if anything they say happened in the prophesy, dream, or vision that goes against the Bible, then it's a false dream.
Here's how to discern if they are truly a "prophet" in the sense of them prophesying, dreaming, and having visions:
1. Does it follow scripture ( 2 Peter 3:16)
2. Look at their fruits ( Matthew 7:15-20)
3. It doesn't breed confusion ( 1 Corinthians 14:29-33)
4. It is of the Holy Ghost/Jesus ( 1 Corinthians 12:1-3, John 16:13-15)
I hope this was a help to you and there is definitely more studying that can go into this, but that's about the summary of this.
These verses also show the limit of a woman in regard to expression in worship settings since they are not to have authority over a man ( 1 Timothy 2:12). This fairly well mirrors the Old Testament where at least in the Book of Judges and a few other instances there were women acting as a Prophetess. There were no female priests at least with Judaism; these occurred with pagan rights quite often; however. It will be noted the consistency in messages at that time with God's overall plan in other texts as well as overall history. Judges 4:9 is an interesting passage with Deborah predicting victory in Sisera at the hands of a woman; perhaps that is one reason God used her. It is also said the lack of visions and available male prophets at the time may have necessitated God using her in this occasion.
There are cases where women would praise God in a prophetic manner; in Exodus 15 Moses started off with a victory song; and Miriam joined in later in verses 20-21. This shows they were in one accord.
If we survey what are the fruits or results of women who take on roles forbidden in scripture usually we see spurious doctrine manifest. 1 Samuel 15:23 reminds us that rebellion is as witchcraft. We see quite often the other half of the problem; namely men that are unwilling to take on the role as head of the household and the responsibilities in worship services. Thus we have a major part of the breakdown of society.
Women also need to fully take on teaching their children; guiding younger women as well as evangelizing to women in this generation; albeit perhaps leaving some more dangerous assignments to men. A woman with more intellegence can help men behind the scenes.
Thanks
The phenomenon of speaking in Tongues was a legitimate means by which God spoke directly to Believers and the Church before the Bible was completed. And God laid down very specific rules for how that was to occur. It is interesting that God makes a distinction in 1 Cor 14 between the value of Tongues in the early Church verses Prophesying. And every True Believer is indeed a "prophet" as they faithfully declare the Word of God.
Once the Bible was completed with the book of Revelation, God declared in Rev 22:18 that He would never again speak directly to mankind apart from the Bible itself.
I am personally convinced that God allowed this phenomenon of Tongues in the early Church before the Bible had been completed as a testing program for our Day as to whether the Church and individuals would be satisfied with the Bible Alone as our Authority. Or would there be an insistence in additional Devine Revelation in addition to the Bible itself.
And is it not amazing how the Tongues phenomena and interest in Signs and Wonders has spread like wild fire with the charismatic movement during the last few decades.
This is just another evidence as to why our understanding of the Nature of the Bible is so very important in our Day.
Continuing the thought of the invisible realm (see John 20:29); we begin to understand the promises of God's protection of His saints ( Psalm 91:11; Isaiah 52:12) through the angels; we see how to correctly "bind and loose" ( Matt. 16:19); how to align more closely to what Christ is interceding in our behalf in seeking His will ( Heb. 7:25); and of course see those in bondage loosed from Satan's grip ( Luke 4:18-19) taken from Isaiah 61:1.
Those who love Him keep His commandments ( John 14:21) and originally found in Deuteronomy 7:9. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom ( Proverbs 9:10 but found many other places in scripture).
For a case study; let us examine 1 Corinthians 14:22-25 where we have tongues and prophecy as applying to unbelievers in one verse then switch to believers in the next verses. This means that evidence of the power of God needs to be present AND a clear message relatable to the sinner or saint present given. In reality there cannot be a supernatural manifestation of the Spirit WITHOUT a piercing of the soul ( Hebrews 4:12) that is of course accompanied by the Gospel as the rest of the verse indicates. It also shows how a church must be corrected as He chastises all His own (found further on in Hebrews 12 verse 6).
The fact that some spiritual activity is occuring isn't evidence that God is at work; it could be demons. The fact that this was still a place where His Spirit was at work was evident in the fact that Paul's severe discipline had results; and that right quick (as the Brits like to say). This is clear from chapter 7 of 2 Corinthians. As I started off this discourse; I mentioned the Ephesians. They were threatened with total removal of their candlestick in Revelation 2. Therefore; being dead would be worse than immature; even with all the correct doctrines and outer actions; ceremonies; etc.
John 16:8 shows how the true Spirit of God works.
Mark 16:16,17
Luke 24:47,48
John 3:1-6
Acts 2:38
1 Peter 3:21
Acts 19:1-6
Acts 10:44-48
Acts 5:32
1 Corinthians 14:2,22,39
Acts 2:4
Acts 1:8
John 21:15,16
I'm of the opinion 1 Timothy 2:12 is saying women should not admonish , nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. since women are easily deceived as was Eve , and not Adam in the Garden
The disturbances in 1 Corinthians 14:34 is suffice to say .
I find it absurd to think women are not to teach the Gospel , nor prophesy all throughout this dispensation of time , but then are permitted to in the end times where sons and daughters shall prophesy written of in the book of Joel 2:28 .
I just think there's something more to the word "teach" in 1 Timothy 2:12 - 15 .
There is certainly agreement anywhere that I know of in traditional and Reformed circles that women have a role in teaching children and also guiding other women in knowledge of the scriptures. This is clear from the women that Paul Himself commends such as Lydia ( Acts 16:11-15 and elsewhere). There was teaching of Godly men who were children of women as well that are mentioned. There are also rules for Christian women as well as men whose spouses were not believers in regard to staying with them if they were agreeable and in some sense; "winning them over" ( 1 Peter 3:2). The concept of submission is clear in scripture as to women; as well as husbands loving in a sacrificial manner as Christ loved the church ( Eph. 5:25). Many men would like to bypass their responsibilities in this regard.
As to any sort of public forum outside a large congregational formal worship service obviously there are gray areas. I would challenge you to find ANY female preachers that are not in some serious doctrinal error (although men are getting harder to find today as well). I have certainly read brilliant writings such as Amy Van Gerpen's book on Revelation (which may finally be complete after years of work). I don't think she does self promoting; but in my opinion it has the most detailed cross references anywhere.
Should one pray in unknown tongues? Let's see what the Bible says about that.
Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 14:1-5
"1 - Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy
2 - For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, BUT UNTO GOD (so tongues are for speaking to God not to people): for no man understandeth him (because he talks in unknown tongues/foreign languages) ; howbeit in the spirit (so it is the Spirit who gives those tongues) he speaketh mysteries (no one understands).
3 - But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4 - HE THAT SPEAKETH IN AN UNKNOWN TONGUE EDIFIETH HIMSELF; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5 - I WOULD THAT YE ALL SPAKE WITH TONGUES, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret (so no one understands if there is nobody who can interprete), that the church may receive edifying"
a. So, Paul suggests that all should speak(pray) in tongues.(verse 5).
b. When one speaks in unknown tongues then what they say is for God, they glorify God (verse 2)
c. It is the Spirit who gives tongues (verse 2), nobody understands (verse 2), unless there is somebody who can interprete (verse 5)
d. The purpose that the Spirit gives tongues to somebody is for him to be edified (sanctified) (verse 4)
Some other points about tongues as well.
1 Cor 14:18 "I (Paul) thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all"
1 Cor 14:15 "What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also." So one may pray or praise with their mind (so they know what they say) or with the Spirit (so they don't know what they say)
There is more... But how about talking about prophesing?
GBU
Yes ! Luke 24:47,48 Mark 16:16,17 , Acts 2:38 , Acts 4:12 , Acts 19:1-6 , Acts 5:32 ,
1 Corinthians 14:2,22,39. Acts 1:8 , Acts 2:4 , John 21:15 Jesus loves us!
Landon
Hi Ray.
There are churches who believe that speaking in tonuges were only for the early period of the church and churches who believe that they are for all ages. The former ones are usually the ones that do not have them occuring in their function mainly the Catholics and Eastern Orthodox churches and many Protestant churches. The latter are called Charismatic or Pentecostal churches.
So I have a question and my question is. If the tongues were only for that early period like all those spiritual gifts described in 1 Corinthians 12:4-11 why were they included by the Holly Spirit in the Bible? What was God's purpose talking about things that will not occur during the vast majority of the existence of the church? Why didn't God give instructions for some other function of the church to follow later on? Why God keeps us busy reading about history things? Just for historical knowledge? No other purpose?
Is there a verse in the Bible that suggests that those things were for the past only? I cannot find any.
The verse you wrote about ( 1 Cor 13:8-10) is refering to a future time when we will be in Heaven. Then knowledge, prophesy, tongues will cease. There will be no reason for those then.
But now, 1 Corinthians 14:1-5
"Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying."
Please read those carefully. (Oh please God, don't waste my time with past things that do not occur now. Or they still occur now?)
Should one pray loudly in tonques in church? 1 Corinthians 14:26-29
"How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
BUT IF THERE BE NO INTERPRETER, LET HIM KEEP SILENCE IN THE CHURCH; AND LET HIM SPEAK TO HIMSELF, AND TO GOD.
Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge."
Oh sorry those were for the past times too. So what is it for us now? How should our churches function now? Where are the directions for us now? Which scripture?
Dear Ray. the Holly Spirit is not like a magic stick that will transform a frog to a prince. God's Spirit does not violate our free will and our free choices. It is given to us by God as a spiritual weapon to help us in our fight against sin. But we have to want to fight against sin, If we don't then the Spirit can not do anything (without our permission) or does as much as we allow Him to do. So one may be baptized in the Spirit and their life are still a mess because they do not allow the Spirit changing them. So do not wonder if you see people like the ones you mentioned. They do exist in every church.
I don't think the leadership of your church push people speaking in tongues. They probably try to push or encourage people to ask for the baptism of the Holly Spirit which is shown externally by speaking in tongues.
GBU
pt 1
Thank you for your insight.
You said you disagree that the Holy Spirit would reveal things beyond what is already written.
But there are many Biblical passages that say things will be revealed
I respectfully challenge you to please show me the Biblical passages to support your thoughts as I have done below to support the Spirit of God will reveal things, today.
If the testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of prophecy, how can there not be more prophecy?
How then could we say we have a testimony of Jesus but not believe in revelation?
When we pray to God for guidance, can the Spirit not help direct us today?
An angel appeared to Cornelius and told him to call for Peter and Peter brought Cornelius the Gospel.
Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares. ( Hebrews 13:2)
Do you believe angels are among us?
Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation? ( Hebrews 1:14)
And how can the Scripture be fulfilled Paul saying,
for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; ( 2 Thessalonians 2:3)
Even the Saints in the early days received revelations
If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. ( 1 Corinthians 14:27)
If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. ( 1 Corinthians 14 30-31)
How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. ( 1 Corinthians 14:26)
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. ( Romans 8:9)
.....Willie we are all the same,....we all have to be bornagain of an incorruptible seed even by the words of God the living word as Bro. Peter tells us...without Jesus seed the living word we cannot be bornagain....Thats y he has to know us....Thats when the good seed is sown in our hearts initiating a birth of Christ in us....The son of man...mankinds fruit unto God via hearing his voice...Whosoever receiveth not the Kingdom of God as a lil Child he will in no wise enter there in...GB
The Holy Spirit fills the person who is willing to do God's Will. Jesus Himself had to submit to God.
God bless u in Jesus name, love u in Christ. John 5:1-15
Governments give more concern to our physical welfare & equality for all but care little for the spiritual & moral decline that permeates society. And add 'political correctness ' & a weak policing & justice system to the mix, you get the recipe for a degraded & continually deteriorating society, all the while believing man has progressed & ensured happiness for all. There have been many worthwhile developments in all areas of personal & corporate life, but when moral & spiritual decay are left to go unchecked, man has very little to crow about.
in the Church Thanks Willie
line all qualified males and choose a priest from among men. Numbers 28:1 when god was setting up the priesthood he said call all males from the family of Arron that they may minister to me in the priesthood . God had a women prophetess call Mariam Moses sister. a elder is appointment after one is saved. The holy ghost have nothing to do with putting a woman in authority over a man just over the Devil works. 1Tim 2:11 this was after the holy Ghost had fell Acts 2:1 -2 1Co 11:3-4 this was written after the Holy Ghost had fell. So why now the women liberation is come now it seems that God have a new thing concerning the Pastor position. if you believe anything out of the scripture you are in False Doctrine and the Bible say's if a Angel from heaven preach any other gospel from what we preach let him be accursed . So it is not what God told the woman she could not do...He told her what to do. Thanks Willie