Deuteronomy Chapter 25 Discussion



 
  • Marke - in Reply on Deuteronomy 25
    Amalek is a type of the flesh and Christians are instructed by God to fight Amalek to the death every day of their lives as necessary. Leave no remnant of Amalek standing, so to speak.
  • Marke - in Reply on Deuteronomy 25
    I believe there is a very important NT lesson and application of Deuteronomy 25:4, that is brought out in two passages in the NT.

    Deuteronomy 25:4

    Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn.

    1 Corinthians 9

    9 For it is written in the law of Moses, thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?

    10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

    1 Timothy 5

    17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

    18 For the scripture saith, thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.
  • Richard H Priday on Deuteronomy 25
    The first three verses here indicate punishment deemed worthy for wickedness is judged by the "judges" who were tied in with the Priesthood; and rendered up to but not exceeding 40 lashes. Paul was; for what they claimed was insurrection or like "offenses" subject to such beatings as well. ( 2 Cor. 11:24); some FIVE times (minus one I suppose to ease their conscience). As to muzzling an ox in verse 4; I am not sure if there is a deeper spiritual context here; other than showing kindness to God's creation; other definitions show that it should be allowed to eat while working; in a sense "worthy of it's hire".

    Verses 5 through 10 indicate a rule for the house of Israel; something that didn't deem direct sanction or punishment from God; but did allow for the "in your face" reaction by an offended widow expecting the "duty" of a brother living in the same house to continue her offspring within the family name by marriage. Such a brazen act of spitting in the face; and the symbolic one of loosening the shoe showed the opposite of the endearment of the Kinsman-Redeemer in the story of Ruth with Boaz. This was part of God's plan for the nation of Israel at the time-we may not relate today as modern day Americans but this is God's Word.

    On the other hand; verses 11 through 12 seem overly harsh to a wife protecting her husband; nonetheless it demonstrates certain parts of the body are to be held sacred even in this case.



    Verse 14 through 15 is yet another of many admonitions to have just and fair balances to enact transactions. This seems to transition into verse 16 about Amalek concluding the chapter. This shows how a past transgression affects God's further administration of justice; even after many generations. Here; the offspring of Amalek were told to be wiped out. It shall be assumed that there were either giant hybrids involved; or God knew that there would be no repentance among his descendants. We may not understand; but all of God's ways are right.
  • GRACE_ambassador {ChrisE} - in Reply on Deuteronomy 25
    Precious Love Of Jesus, you are Very Welcome. Please Be Very 'Enriched' Growing In HIS Wonderful And Amazing GRACE!

    Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified! ( 2 Timothy 2:15 Romans 16:25 Ephesians 3:9 = Grace/Mystery fellowship {Romans - Philemon}, For ALL "to SEE, today?)
  • GRACE_ambassador {ChrisE} study ALL Scripture - in Reply on Deuteronomy 25
    Precious friends, no one is "content/ignoring tons of scripture" that commands we be 'water baptized' Today, Under God's GRACE. We have "studied" Much, Prayerfully And Carefully, And Have Found ONLY "ONE Baptism" for Today, and it is NOT "water"! Link

    We Must Be Very Careful not "to blaspheme The Holy Spirit" = (as the Jews did) "attributing The 'Work Of The Holy Spirit' unto men/Satan, Instead Of To God." Matthew 12:31; Mark 3:28-30 Correct?

    Some 'May Be confused' so, Other "Confirming" studies are here

    Solving water Confusion:

    Part 1 Link

    Part 2 Link

    Israel's 'water' for the priesthood = various washings:

    Part 1 Link

    Part 2 Link

    All are invited to study "ALL The Holy Scriptures" on this Important Issue - Be Encouraged!
  • GiGi again - in Reply on Deuteronomy 25
    Spencer, Thank you for your reply. I do not know anyone's history on here, so thanks for sharing. I kind of got here by "accident". I have not, however, come on tis comment section thinking I am going to set anyone aright. We are all just sharing our ideas here. Some of us can do so rigorously, others with a soft touch, others more timidly. There is room for everyone. In fact, I thought when I came on here I would hear far more "orthodoxy" than error. So, coming upon things that seemed false teachings to me took me by surprise. I had to pray about whether even to stay on this site, let alone try to articulate what I know to be "orthodox" teachings of the church. Not everything that I disagree with is false teaching or error. There are plenty of topics that allow for differences of viewpoints. This is called "heterodoxy".

    So, I appreciate your story. We are not alike in the way you explained as far as my motivations. But we each have things to learn and ways to grow. A site like this is helpful towards these things. I am well aware that I may say things that upset people, just as people say things that unsettle my spirit, as well. I don't intend to be controversial. But I am not afraid to speak a view that may not be commonly held by others on this site. So, like you said, people may get angry with me. I just let them own that unless they can point out where something I have said is unkind or otherwise sinful. Then I will repent and apologize. That is why I ask for clarification, so I can go before the Lord and see if I have wronged anyone with what I have said. If so, I am to own that.

    For, me, like others, God has brought us here together to wrestle with viewpoints so that His truth will prevail. And so, I think each of our viewpoints is important to contribute. That is why I post, because I think my viewpoint may be helpful to someone.

    Many of us certainly are not passive. But we are wanting to hold out the word of truth to those who need it. God Bless.
  • S Spencer - in Reply on Deuteronomy 25
    That's ok, Gigi,

    You should have heard me when I first came on the site 2020 Christmas eve.

    I assumed I would be needed as help to fend off false doctrine, I was ambitious and ready to go. I'm sure some remember.

    And to top it off once I heard Brother Chris and a few others I was like GREAT TEACHINGS!! And then out of excitement I made the unforgettable comment!! I said- Quoting " I thought this site needed me to help protect it from false doctrine but they have great teachers here!! I don't think that went well. Lol. Then I get into a debate about the marks of a Christian nation and the fruitfulness of our nation, I believe that rub some people wrong and some held that against me till this day.

    I've decided to be more of a supporter to those who teach what I believe to be the truth. I struggled and still do as do you, But atleast we're not passive.

    God bless.
  • GiGi again - in Reply on Deuteronomy 25
    Spencer, Thank you for explaining. As I said, I am still learning how to use this site.
  • S Spencer - in Reply on Deuteronomy 25
    Goodmorning Gigi.

    I've returned to answer a few questions you asked me.

    You asked: how I was disrespectful?

    Well, the original post was 2 days ago, and you never responded to the lady's posting, "April" that's why I said these posts are not directed at you. If so, the original reply would have been sent to you. I was expanding on at topic that come up often that I didn't have time to engage in but said I would when time permits.

    You posted addressed to me before I ever responded to the post, I gave an "Amen to Brother Jesse post and to Grace post, with the focus on water baptism isn't required for salvation. That was the narrative!

    You quoted "I am not saying that water baptism saves. I am saying it is the act of obedience" whether water baptism is out of obedience or for salvation is 2 different narratives and this post was dealing with the salvation issue. Your focus seemed to be on me as I second and supported others in the tread.

    And no, you don't have less privilege in posting your viewpoint on the subject because you are new to the site, but your viewpoint should have been addressed to April that way we would have stuck to the narrative, "Does water baptism saves" you said you doesn't believe it does, but you colleagues believe otherwise.

    You stated.

    Now quoting:

    I am not trying to be contrary here. I can tell you may be a bit bothered. We disagree on this subject. I'm good with that. We both can post our viewpoints and respond to posts as we see fit. Well, you have been given that respect, give it to others. Adress your viewpoint to the post not to the responders or to someone saying "Amen" especially if we agree on the narrative. "Is water baptism for salvation". Dispensation and transitional period were just embodied in the discussion and wasn't to take precedence over the narrative.

    I hope this explains

    GOD BLESS.
  • Bro dan - in Reply on Deuteronomy 25
    There are some posting in this thread that are content ignoring tons of bible scripture as long as their preconceived salvation narrative of faith+grace and not much else is preached. Many are comfortable ignoring and telling others to ignore Christs (numerous) commands to be baptized in water and follow the commandments, among other things.

    Christ tells us to pick up our crosses and follow him!

    Today, many twist Pauls words to reflect their misguided salvation message. Paul does not cancel the words spoken by Jesus/God. If you believe that the words of Jesus should be ignored please read this scripture below:

    Matthew 24:35

    "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away."

    Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow!

    Please read your bible and Believe!
  • S Spencer - in Reply on Deuteronomy 25
    Amen Brother.

    It reminds ma of Matthew 23:26.
  • S Spencer - in Reply on Deuteronomy 25
    My view on John 3:5.

    Here's another highly used verse when

    when there's a debate is water baptism required for salvation.

    I'll share 3 views briefly and go over the one I held but recently heard brother Jesse view on this verse. And it resonates!!

    Here's one that is in error that is commonly used by these who say you have to be baptized by water to be saved.

    "The water mentioned in this verse is water baptism."

    The interpretation brother Jesse gave earlier in this tread, I want go over that one. I'll leave it for some to research.

    The other is the water mentioned in the verse is the word of God.

    1 Peter 1:23. Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

    Amen and

    God bless.
  • S Spencer - in Reply on Deuteronomy 25
    GiGi

    Thank you ,

    God bless.
  • Rick Mentzer - in Reply on Deuteronomy 25
    S. Spencer A statement I heard a long time ago describing someone walking by the spirit, it is the external

    manifestation of the inward reality of the exercised power of holy spirit. Thought that was pretty good.
  • Gigi - in Reply on Deuteronomy 25
    Spencer

    God bless you, too.

    Perhaps you could read Matthew Henry's commentary on Acts 19

    I am not meaning to be disrespectful

    Can you tell me how I was disrespectful?

    I also do not think I am any more "authorative" than anyone else on here who has firm views, as you do.

    I am still learning about this community, but it sounds to me from your post that since I am newer I have less privilege in posting my viewpoint than others.

    I am not trying to be contrary here. I can tell you may be a bit bothered. We disagree on this subject. I'm good with that. We both can post our viewpoints and respond to posts as we see fit.

    Unless there is something in the terms of agreement that say otherwise, such as I can only respond to a post directed to me?

    Even so, I leave this conversation on peace,
  • S Spencer - in Reply on Deuteronomy 25
    Amen!

    Thanks Brother Rick.

    If we come across anything that adds to the finish work of Christ we have to revisit the viewpoint. By the means of the law we failed miserably!! Paul said in Romans 7:14. For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

    The issue is the incurable heart!!

    With this heart the nature is disobedience,

    Therefore obedience is internal expressed outwardly!!
  • S Spencer - in Reply on Deuteronomy 25
    GiGi.

    I'm sorry if this bothers you but these posts is not directed at you. If so the original reply would have been sent to you.

    This has been a debated topic long before you and I joined the site. Let's share our views and not try to use "Authority" . And no It doesn't say they we're baptized in water by Paul. It does say. "Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

    WHEN THEY HEARD THIS, THEY WERE BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS.

    This comes up often and was debated a couple of weeks ago, I didn't have time to engage but said I would when time permits. The topic come up again so here I am. Please respect that

    God bless.
  • Rick Mentzer - in Reply on Deuteronomy 25
    ChrisE Good Stuff, it Is Written.
  • GiGi - in Reply on Deuteronomy 25
    Spencer, again, Paul baptized these believers in water and then laid hands on them to receive the Holy Spirit. I know we disagree on this, but it plainly speaks of two happenings here, baptizing them and then laying on of hands.
  • Rick Mentzer - in Reply on Deuteronomy 25
    S. Spencer You made a great statement concerning Gods Word its not just believing God but also what we

    believe about God can determine our walk and behaviour spiritually. It's like what and where you have fear

    you cannot have spiritual faith and where you have spiritual faith in your walk you will not have fear.

    First words out of Adams mouth after downfall he heard Gods voice in the garden and he was

    afraid, first words that angels gave to shepherds in the fields fear not for unto this day is born a saviour.
  • S Spencer - in Reply on Deuteronomy 25
    Grace.

    Part 2 of 2.

    THE COMMAND.

    For starters there is more to the words command in the Greek that I am not adequate to explain.

    What is actually being commanded?

    What are Jesus commands spoken of in Matthew 28:20.?

    Are these commands to be water baptized? let's take a look.

    Matthew 28:19-20.

    19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

    20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

    For starters the command is to observe all things whatsoever I HAVE COMMANDED YOU. Who's being commanded?

    Who's the you? The command went to the disciples. It wasn't a command to the recipient of the message.

    Where is the command to the recipient to be baptized with water?

    If baptism by water was an act of obedience to a command, where is it?

    I do see where the lord commanded the disciples to love one another as he has loved them.

    John 13:34-35.

    34) A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

    35) By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

    It does seem like verse 35 would be useful in their commission.

    God bless.
  • S Spencer - in Reply on Deuteronomy 25
    Amen Grace.

    Part 1.

    I would like to continue this subject a little further because it is all important because of it is a salvation issue at hand.

    There is one baptism: Meaning there is only one way we are identified with Christ and put into the body of believers.

    "Baptized" shows up in several places in the New Testament, John gives us perhaps the first view of baptism, (baptism of repentance) and he gives the baptism of Christ authority. "Baptism of the Holyspirit"

    I think when people see the word baptize, they're thinking it is speaking of water baptism and that is not always the case!

    EXAMPLES:

    Acts 19:2-5.

    2) He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

    3) And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

    4) Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

    5) When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

    NOTICE VERSES 4 AND 5!

    Now we know by way of verse 4 they were baptized with water, "John's baptism"

    Verse 5 seems to be another baptism! Was it water? I don't think so, Paul said he baptized no one but Crispus and Gaius and Stephanas household.

    Now look at verse 2 and we discover what is expected to initiate the Holy Ghost. "Believe!

    The HG didn't come on them until verse 6.

    6) And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues and prophesied.

    Now put it into perspective.

    Mark 16:16. He that "believeth" and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

    What initiates their salvation? Belief! and this is baptism of the Holy spirit spoken here triggered by belief not water.

    The same applies here and several other places.

    Mathew 28:19.

    Part 2

    What is actually commanded.
  • GRACE_ambassador {ChrisE} water baptism today? - in Reply on Deuteronomy 25
    Precious friend, Scripture is NOT in "Great Error"

    1 Corinthians 1:17

    Paul Was NOT Sent to {water} baptize! Why Not?:

    Today: 'Only ONE' Baptism = "BY" The ONE Spirit = God's OPERATION, Spiritually Identifying members In (The ONE Body Of) CHRIST!! ( Ephesians 4:5 ) ( Colossians 2:12 ) ( Galatians 3:27 ) ( Romans 6:3-4 ) ( 1 Corinthians 12:13 )

    Just to Be DOUBLY Sure Of God's WORD Of Truth!:

    Paul, Inspired Of God, wrote:

    "For Christ sent me NOT to baptize, but to preach The Gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest The Cross of Christ should be made of none effect." 1 Corinthians 1:17

    God's 'Simple' Will: Link
  • Rick Mentzer - in Reply on Deuteronomy 25
    S. Spencer Actually South East but its all good and by Gods Grace I made it another Year by man's time standard.

    I view as one day at a time to give them a slice of heaven lovingly on a silver platter. We say that we are God's and

    God is ours deeds are proof of this and not just words and these are the proving hours.
  • S Spencer - in Reply on Deuteronomy 25
    Amen Rick.

    Goodmorning and happy New year.

    You must live on the west coast.

    I keep missing you by 3 hours.

    God bless.
  • Rick Mentzer - in Reply on Deuteronomy 25
    Alex N. Why don't we stick with 1 Corinthians 1:9-17 and the preaching of Christ and the one body the Wisdom

    of God. Gods Word is the glue that keeps us together.
  • Alex N - in Reply on Deuteronomy 25
    Gi Gi you do greatly err.....If God did not send Paul to water baptise , he did not send anybody to water baptise.

    Paul tells us water baptism wd make the blood of no effect...Absolutely nothin can be added to what Jesus did at

    Calvary As God is no respector of persons...Remember when Uzzah tried to steady the ark he wanted to help God

    Gods, anger was so kindled against Uzzah God slew him there next to the Ark. We cannot help God when it cames to

    to salvation..Thats what Peter was trying to do in Acts 10 & 11 Peter wanted to help God with water baptism in the purification proccess. The new covenant and Gods anger was kindled against Peter tells him 3 times what i have made clean, do not call common or unclean...Even in the natural when somebody tells ya something 3 times thats a rebuke

    Obedience is better then sacrfice .When Jesus said its finish means don't try to add anything to it not water baptism or circumcision nothin period....All the unclean animals in that sheet was the Church that was made Clean by the BLOOD OF THE LAMB NOT WATER BAPTISM, tHAT Peter was commanding. Thats y Paul was so reluctant to water baptise, he feared it wd make the BLOOD of no effect...Jesus himself tells his own disciples that if he did not wash them they wd have no part with him and they

    they had ALL been Preveously water baptised . Which speaks volumes of a greater baptism of the Blood of the lamb and a new covenant. It was his blood that initiated that new covenant ...As the book that new covenant was written with his own BLOOD not water....We cannot apply water to the doorposts of our hearts, Only Blood cd be applied to the

    Doorpost under the old covenant.....But now under this new covenant only the Blood of the lamb will suffice....Peter was trying to help God just like Uzzah was trying to help God by steading the ARK ...But nothin can be added to what Jesus did at Calvary, ..Its finish. But Peter didn't understand, nothin can be added to Calvary.
  • Adam - in Reply on Deuteronomy 25
    Amen, I agree with your points. We wrestle with the flesh and can even resist obeying God, whether that's pride, stubbornness, or another stronghold. Satan works in tiny increments, so a tiny resistance one day, might grow into a larger resistance another day, and can keep growing into total disobedience and even rejection of the faith. Just like sin is a slippery slope with the tinest little compromise justified for various false reasons, then another, and in time someone can end up in a place they never expected, because they were deceived and believed a lie. The same old tricks by the evil one. We're called to keep our armor of God on, and be on watch and on guard, and keep each other accountable and keep our faith and trust in God. God bless...
  • Rick Mentzer - in Reply on Deuteronomy 25
    S. Spencer Brother I agree because the definition of Grace is Divine [UNMERITED FAVOR] God to man.

    Before law Noah found GRACE or favour in the eyes of God. God favoured Abraham Isaac Jacob before the law

    then to give his adopted children Israel direction in print he gave the Law all over 400 of them and then still needed

    sacrifice for breaking fellowship or sinning and it was displayed via the senses a sacrifice. Now we have the eternal

    sacrifice given Jesus Christ and the eternal unmerited gift given when believed holy spirit and forgiveness when we

    verbally confess our broken fellowship and of course mean it.
  • Rick Mentzer - in Reply on Deuteronomy 25
    S. Spencer I'm with you on this because under Paul's ministry to the gentiles and in the church epistles water

    baptism is not specified but baptism is stated and when you work the word baptise which can mean a pouring over

    with water dipped in water or complete and internal cleansing spiritual. In Acts 9:17+18 when Paul was called out

    the word baptised is internal and water is never mentioned. This action was given at the end of the law under John

    the baptist ministry to prepare Israels hearts for the messiah before pentecost the spiritual birthday of the church. That

    being said I have not apposed to it but getting the Job done Requires Romans 10:9+10 in the age of Grace according

    to Paul's epistles.

    requires Romans 10:9+10


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