I would like to continue this subject a little further because it is all important because of it is a salvation issue at hand.
There is one baptism: Meaning there is only one way we are identified with Christ and put into the body of believers.
"Baptized" shows up in several places in the New Testament, John gives us perhaps the first view of baptism, (baptism of repentance) and he gives the baptism of Christ authority. "Baptism of the Holyspirit"
I think when people see the word baptize, they're thinking it is speaking of water baptism and that is not always the case!
EXAMPLES:
Acts 19:2-5.
2) He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3) And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4) Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5) When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
NOTICE VERSES 4 AND 5!
Now we know by way of verse 4 they were baptized with water, "John's baptism"
Verse 5 seems to be another baptism! Was it water? I don't think so, Paul said he baptized no one but Crispus and Gaius and Stephanas household.
Now look at verse 2 and we discover what is expected to initiate the Holy Ghost. "Believe!
The HG didn't come on them until verse 6.
6) And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues and prophesied.
Now put it into perspective.
Mark 16:16. He that "believeth" and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
What initiates their salvation? Belief! and this is baptism of the Holy spirit spoken here triggered by belief not water.
GRACE_ambassador {ChrisE} water baptism today? - In Reply on Deuteronomy 25 - 2 years ago
Precious friend, Scripture is NOT in "Great Error"
1 Corinthians 1:17
Paul Was NOT Sent to {water} baptize! Why Not?:
Today: 'Only ONE' Baptism = "BY" The ONE Spirit = God's OPERATION, Spiritually Identifying members In (The ONE Body Of) CHRIST!! ( Ephesians 4:5 ) ( Colossians 2:12 ) ( Galatians 3:27 ) ( Romans 6:3-4 ) ( 1 Corinthians 12:13 )
Just to Be DOUBLY Sure Of God's WORD Of Truth!:
Paul, Inspired Of God, wrote:
"For Christ sent me NOT to baptize, but to preach The Gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest The Cross of Christ should be made of none effect." 1 Corinthians 1:17
Gi Gi you do greatly err.....If God did not send Paul to water baptise , he did not send anybody to water baptise.
Paul tells us water baptism wd make the blood of no effect...Absolutely nothin can be added to what Jesus did at
Calvary As God is no respector of persons...Remember when Uzzah tried to steady the ark he wanted to help God
Gods, anger was so kindled against Uzzah God slew him there next to the Ark. We cannot help God when it cames to
to salvation..Thats what Peter was trying to do in Acts 10 & 11 Peter wanted to help God with water baptism in the purification proccess. The new covenant and Gods anger was kindled against Peter tells him 3 times what i have made clean, do not call common or unclean...Even in the natural when somebody tells ya something 3 times thats a rebuke
Obedience is better then sacrfice .When Jesus said its finish means don't try to add anything to it not water baptism or circumcision nothin period....All the unclean animals in that sheet was the Church that was made Clean by the BLOOD OF THE LAMB NOT WATER BAPTISM, tHAT Peter was commanding. Thats y Paul was so reluctant to water baptise, he feared it wd make the BLOOD of no effect...Jesus himself tells his own disciples that if he did not wash them they wd have no part with him and they
they had ALL been Preveously water baptised . Which speaks volumes of a greater baptism of the Blood of the lamb and a new covenant. It was his blood that initiated that new covenant ...As the book that new covenant was written with his own BLOOD not water....We cannot apply water to the doorposts of our hearts, Only Blood cd be applied to the
Doorpost under the old covenant.....But now under this new covenant only the Blood of the lamb will suffice....Peter was trying to help God just like Uzzah was trying to help God by steading the ARK ...But nothin can be added to what Jesus did at Calvary, ..Its finish. But Peter didn't understand, nothin can be added to Calvary.
Amen, I agree with your points. We wrestle with the flesh and can even resist obeying God, whether that's pride, stubbornness, or another stronghold. Satan works in tiny increments, so a tiny resistance one day, might grow into a larger resistance another day, and can keep growing into total disobedience and even rejection of the faith. Just like sin is a slippery slope with the tinest little compromise justified for various false reasons, then another, and in time someone can end up in a place they never expected, because they were deceived and believed a lie. The same old tricks by the evil one. We're called to keep our armor of God on, and be on watch and on guard, and keep each other accountable and keep our faith and trust in God. God bless...
Sorry spencer, you are assuming a lot of things about me and my thinking on this matter. Like I said in the last post. I don't wish to re-hash, so I am bowing out of this conversation. If anyone wants to know more of what I have said, then they can go back a few weeks to see what was spoken about this topic then. I think I am very consistent in my thinking.
Then again, I do not find any scriptural support for your assertion that the church was in a transitional period and that somehow baptism in water ceased to be the norm for new converts. That is far from the truth as evidenced by historical documents kept by the early church and the practice throughout history. I also think that it is erroneous to put up such a view of Paul's commission to not baptize, but preach the gospel as being the normative for the apostles, disciples, and elders who served the church and the only acceptable practice among the churches. He was an evangelist, not an elder, bishop or overseer. One plants, another waters, and the Lord gives the increase.
GiGi in that case apparently show should have bypass this one because This topic was whether water baptism was required for salvation or not. NOTHING ELSE!!
It expressed using the term correctly.
I agree that the apostles new exactly what the Lord had them to do, But sorry I believe you are gravely in error of what that was. And Paul said Jesus ( Sent him not to baptize) But to preach the Gospel!!
1 Corinthians 1:17. You have to be consistent in your view. You expresses Matthew 28:19. BUT PAUL SAYS HE SENT HIM NOT TO BAPTIZE. And the scripture doesn't say anyone baptized for him..
If Paul would have been the Apostles to the Jews he would have been commissioned to baptize as well.
He would have been involved in this transition.
But this was not a commandment defined the way the commandment is defined in the ten commandments. To command as mentioned in Matthew is the act of Power.
Anything you add to the finish work of Christ is a heresy.
Again we NEVER was discussing an act of obedience, Circumcision was commandment but Circumcision didn't save lives. It's a cutting away of the flesh. Another action pointing to the finish work on the cross, as well as water baptism. Many in the first century church believed water baptism was to was away the leprosy of sin.
The Lord didn't come to clean us up.
Baptism is where the old man dies and is born again!! not a spiritual bath.
From what I have seen many of those who hold this view don't stop there, They believe you can loose your salvation,
Salvation is by works not grace! You don't know your saved until you are Judged ect..
There seems to be an absence of Christ supplied faith if you don't Know.
John says we can Know by the love we have one for another.
We are given strength to obey God's word by the Spirit AFTER we have been saved.
and that's not to remain saved, It's because we are saved.
And we shouldn't be partial.
We should obey Paul pastoral epistles as well. Don't you think?
Guarantee I will continue to search for information on any scripture I don't understand. Thats just who I am. I'm Gods daughter forever. I appreciate everyone giving me scripture to search out & learn more about my lord & savior Jesus Christ & his word! Thank you.
Thank you so much for everything. It's very much appreciated. Have a prosperous & healthy new year. I don't celebrate anything pagan. However I do celebrate passover.
I am not saying that water baptism saves. I am saying it is the act of obedience that is to follows belief, as commanded by Jesus. Many on this thread have spoken to this subject repeatedly over the few months I have been on this forum. There have been many good posts made on both sides of this subject.
I do not wish to rehash these conversations once again. I posted because I wish to state support for the ages old practice of new converts being water baptized as is revealed in the book of Acts and attested to by the writers of the early church. I happen to think that they knew better than we do in this day and age what was practiced by the apostles disciples, and elders of the early church age. In Acts 19 Paul di baptize the converts of Apollo in water and then laid hands on them to receive the outpouring of the Holy Spirit immediately after being water baptized. I am also aware that Paul had stated that he did not come to baptize. This does not mean that he never did or did not instruct new believers to be baptized. It means that the elders present did the baptizing in water, not Paul. he did the preaching. The elders followed up with the new converts.
I do not see it fitting to re hash this topic, because those on neither "side" of the issue are going to change their minds on this. I believe my view is on the side of Scripture and the witness of the church through the centuries that Jesus promised to build. Those who despise this history will have to give an account to the Lord about why they refuse to follow His command and refute His witness in the church through the ages.
For me, I appreciate the opportunity to share ideas on this forum. I accept that people will have differences, and respect others viewpoint. But, also, for me, if someone is adamantly in opposition of doing something that Jesus commanded and the apostles practiced, then I tend to be cautious about receiving what they say on other matters as I believe they are teaching error on this.
You are correct, and a wonderful explanation on why as a Christian we should receive baptism as instructed by Christ. I agree, that water baptism has been the norm even before, and then during the 1st century church up to and including the present day!
Jesus instructs us to be baptized, and shows us here, how we should be baptized and the manner in which we receive the Holy Spirit:
Matthew 3:16
"And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:"
Jesus gave us many wonderful examples for us to follow, and Christ followers will follow Christ, and no one else!
It seems there is 2 things we are discussing here. For one there is many things that was practiced that isn't essential for salvation. These same arguments were present in apostles day. false practices and false doctrine crept in the Church in their day. Infact, you see it prophesied in the feast offerings with the leaven. It seems you are searching the scripture as an historian to get to this matter, but you mention nothing of Paul not baptizing as an apostle to the gentiles. I've mentioned the transition from Judaism with much explanation in the initial post, we want get into that here.
I'm carefully going over your post and there seems to be a bit confusion. We are not talking about THE POWER OF THE HOLYSPIRIT in which we are gifted for ministry, We are talking about being baptized into Christ death and resurrection which is done by the Holyspirit immediately at conversion. We are identified with him in death, when he died, we died. When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
(The church couldn't receive these gifts until after Christ died and rose from the dead) So their baptism into his death had already taken place before receiving the gifts.
So we are not substituting water baptism for baptism by the Holyspirit, we're saying ther is only one baptism as Paul mentions in Ephesians 4:4-6. I believe here Paul is saying there is only one way we are identified with Christ and the father and put into the body of believers. and that can only be done by the Holyspirit.
You seem to be saying the same thing in your reply; however it seems you define or term spirit baptism incorrectly.
Quoting you:
"I want to have all that God has for me, not just some. So, that is why I have been water and Spirit baptized, which happened after I was converted."
How can this happen after you were converted if it takes water baptism to be converted?
If you read all of Acts, you will find that water baptism was the general practice of the apostles when ministering to new believers. This practice continued all through the the apostolic times into the the early church times (past 100 A.D.) and has been the common orthodox practice throughout the centuries. It is only in recent times that people are substituting the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit for water baptism (which I think is a biblically errant substitution) . I am not saying that the enduement of the Holy Spirit is unbiblical, though. It is a wonderful action of the Holy Spirit in the life of believer to empower and equip one for service and exercise of spiritual gifts in the Church family. I think that Jesus wants believers to have both a water baptism (as each apostle/disciple had been done prior to Pentecost) and one of enduement of the Spirit (as on Pentecost), but it is the same Spirit that regenerates someone and gives faith to believe at conversion, indwells the new believer, is present at water baptism to do whatever God has determined to happen from it, and Who is poured out on a believer when one is endued with the Spirit. AS for me, I want to have all that God has for me, not just some. So, that is why I have been water and Spirit baptized, which happened after I was converted.
I would like to add one or two more things that I believe is to be very important. Whether by water baptism or baptism by the Holyspirit, is it evident in your life that spiritual baptism has taken place.
You will run into 2 major groups engage on this topic. One group is those who believe you are saved by confessing Jesus and keeping the commandments. Some of this group believe you can lose your salvation. This group is bond to a work base religion.
The other group believes "for by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Even the faith you are being saved through is not your faith! it is a gift of God!
You have nothing to offer God in terms of salvation! I hold this view.
True baptism when you "GENUINELY" accept Christ as your savior there is production in your life that begins. You can't produce it or keep it from producing as you feed on the word.
I will share a few by verses below and hopefully others can expand on them or add to.
Notice Paul' he didn't have much to say about water baptism, but he had a lot to say about baptism by the Holyspirit.
Romans 6:4.
Romans 6:6-8.
Romans 6:11.
It does well to study all of Romans 6 to expand a little on "the production' of spiritual baptism.
JOHNS BAPTISM.
you can see a picture of this transition for the Jews drawn out for you by Paul in Romans 7:1-2. Read all.
Now read Mathew 3:10-11.
Israel was a natural branch that didn't bear fruit. Jeremiah 2:21. "Nor could it"
Also read Mathew 21:42-44. and John 15:1-7.
Now let's get back to our 2 groups.
You have the 1st group I mentioned that put themselves in bondage as did Israel and despising the truth.
believing in baptism outwardly but unbaptized inwardly.
Amen! I have to come up with a little thing here now. Before I went into water baptism disease ravaged my body. It was like obsession, as soon as I approached the Word of God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit, I was crippled by asthma. And as soon as I turned my back I got well again !!!!. But in the end I was 39 years old I went in the water baptism and after that there was no obstacle and coming to Jesus. These are serious freers. And seriously!
I was a little afraid of being baptized in water. But something told me I had to try it. On the day of my baptism, I had bilateral pneumonia. But after the baptism in water, I actually started to get well right away!
So if there is anyone here who is constantly REMINDED and baptized but holds back defiantly, like a little infant. Then for your own sake you must learn and crawl to the CROSS. It may be that God has a greater service for you than the one you are in now.
Ill pray for u all who struggle with this. Because it's about doing something for the Lord. He who has done so MUCH for us. And if we talk about sex in this direction, we should be ashamed. If it should be. Then ladies can probably baptize each other on their own days and as I see it, no men need to see it at all.
Problem solved!
There should never be an obstacle in being baptized. Will anyone be responsible for that? And hold back God's will? Now then the grave of all water baptisms should always be open. Unless there is a river, or sea nearby and hot weather. Let everyone who wants to be baptized do it right away! Do not hold back. And we do not need swimsuits either, we can baptize in the clothes that each individual wants. White clothes are religious, the main thing is the water!
1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
God bless u and a Happy New Year too u all, Love u in Christ
Hello Zakariyya. You're most welcome to raise discussion on the Deity of Jesus Christ and/or His Prophethood. You may like to start a new thread on this as the existing one concerns Water Baptism & any other discussion will get lost in this thread. As this is an open Forum, with clear guidelines for posting, you will get other views/answers to your enquiries or beliefs, given with respect & understanding to all. As well, we only use the Bible, God's Word to mankind, as our authority & don't appeal to any other religious book to form our beliefs. We will look forward to your input.
The Scriptures about the Godhead. Sometimes called "Let Us..." in some passages. These scriptures are evidence of all 3 persons of the Godhead speaking to each other.
Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7
Isaiah 6:8
Romans 1:20
Colossians 2:9
Acts 17:27-30
1 John 5:7
John 10:30
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and GODHEAD so that they are without excuse:"
Genesis 1:1
The Father purposes
The Word (Jesus) speaks. ( John 1:1)
The Spirit (Holy Spirit) executes the spoken word. Action.
All working together. Jesus came to show us the Father, as Emmanuel.
Matthew 1:23
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God WITH US. [Jesus]
1 Corinthians 12:1-31 explains all the gifts, titled, administrations that God gives to the Church that Jesus has planted on earth Now.
Those that He calls, he anoints for the work. Luke 4:18. The Bible says the gifts and callings are without revocation. If we try to operate without the Holy Spirits anointing; we will not bear good fruit. Can even become apostate.
It's not something to treat carelessly. The Head of the Church is Jesus Christ. All parts of the Body are connected to Jesus.
Jesus is High Priest, sitting at the right hand of God the Father in heaven now. He ministered (on earth) in all offices of Prophet, Teacher, The Good Shepherd (pastor) and Evangelist.
An Apostle is one who has seen the risen Christ. And who operates in all 5 offices of ministry. All of Jesus's Disciples (except Judas Iscariot), became Apostles. Who are Church planters. I think missionaries most qualify as Apostles. (My opinion)
Most important church people: are the praise and worship leaders. "Enter His Courts with Praise."
Part 2 of 2.
THE COMMAND.
For starters there is more to the words command in the Greek that I am not adequate to explain.
What is actually being commanded?
What are Jesus commands spoken of in Matthew 28:20.?
Are these commands to be water baptized? let's take a look.
Matthew 28:19-20.
19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
For starters the command is to observe all things whatsoever I HAVE COMMANDED YOU. Who's being commanded?
Who's the you? The command went to the disciples. It wasn't a command to the recipient of the message.
Where is the command to the recipient to be baptized with water?
If baptism by water was an act of obedience to a command, where is it?
I do see where the lord commanded the disciples to love one another as he has loved them.
John 13:34-35.
34) A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
35) By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
It does seem like verse 35 would be useful in their commission.
God bless.
Part 1.
I would like to continue this subject a little further because it is all important because of it is a salvation issue at hand.
There is one baptism: Meaning there is only one way we are identified with Christ and put into the body of believers.
"Baptized" shows up in several places in the New Testament, John gives us perhaps the first view of baptism, (baptism of repentance) and he gives the baptism of Christ authority. "Baptism of the Holyspirit"
I think when people see the word baptize, they're thinking it is speaking of water baptism and that is not always the case!
EXAMPLES:
Acts 19:2-5.
2) He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3) And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4) Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5) When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
NOTICE VERSES 4 AND 5!
Now we know by way of verse 4 they were baptized with water, "John's baptism"
Verse 5 seems to be another baptism! Was it water? I don't think so, Paul said he baptized no one but Crispus and Gaius and Stephanas household.
Now look at verse 2 and we discover what is expected to initiate the Holy Ghost. "Believe!
The HG didn't come on them until verse 6.
6) And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues and prophesied.
Now put it into perspective.
Mark 16:16. He that "believeth" and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
What initiates their salvation? Belief! and this is baptism of the Holy spirit spoken here triggered by belief not water.
The same applies here and several other places.
Mathew 28:19.
Part 2
What is actually commanded.
1 Corinthians 1:17
Paul Was NOT Sent to {water} baptize! Why Not?:
Today: 'Only ONE' Baptism = "BY" The ONE Spirit = God's OPERATION, Spiritually Identifying members In (The ONE Body Of) CHRIST!! ( Ephesians 4:5 ) ( Colossians 2:12 ) ( Galatians 3:27 ) ( Romans 6:3-4 ) ( 1 Corinthians 12:13 )
Just to Be DOUBLY Sure Of God's WORD Of Truth!:
Paul, Inspired Of God, wrote:
"For Christ sent me NOT to baptize, but to preach The Gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest The Cross of Christ should be made of none effect." 1 Corinthians 1:17
God's 'Simple' Will: Link
I view as one day at a time to give them a slice of heaven lovingly on a silver platter. We say that we are God's and
God is ours deeds are proof of this and not just words and these are the proving hours.
Goodmorning and happy New year.
You must live on the west coast.
I keep missing you by 3 hours.
God bless.
of God. Gods Word is the glue that keeps us together.
Paul tells us water baptism wd make the blood of no effect...Absolutely nothin can be added to what Jesus did at
Calvary As God is no respector of persons...Remember when Uzzah tried to steady the ark he wanted to help God
Gods, anger was so kindled against Uzzah God slew him there next to the Ark. We cannot help God when it cames to
to salvation..Thats what Peter was trying to do in Acts 10 & 11 Peter wanted to help God with water baptism in the purification proccess. The new covenant and Gods anger was kindled against Peter tells him 3 times what i have made clean, do not call common or unclean...Even in the natural when somebody tells ya something 3 times thats a rebuke
Obedience is better then sacrfice .When Jesus said its finish means don't try to add anything to it not water baptism or circumcision nothin period....All the unclean animals in that sheet was the Church that was made Clean by the BLOOD OF THE LAMB NOT WATER BAPTISM, tHAT Peter was commanding. Thats y Paul was so reluctant to water baptise, he feared it wd make the BLOOD of no effect...Jesus himself tells his own disciples that if he did not wash them they wd have no part with him and they
they had ALL been Preveously water baptised . Which speaks volumes of a greater baptism of the Blood of the lamb and a new covenant. It was his blood that initiated that new covenant ...As the book that new covenant was written with his own BLOOD not water....We cannot apply water to the doorposts of our hearts, Only Blood cd be applied to the
Doorpost under the old covenant.....But now under this new covenant only the Blood of the lamb will suffice....Peter was trying to help God just like Uzzah was trying to help God by steading the ARK ...But nothin can be added to what Jesus did at Calvary, ..Its finish. But Peter didn't understand, nothin can be added to Calvary.
Before law Noah found GRACE or favour in the eyes of God. God favoured Abraham Isaac Jacob before the law
then to give his adopted children Israel direction in print he gave the Law all over 400 of them and then still needed
sacrifice for breaking fellowship or sinning and it was displayed via the senses a sacrifice. Now we have the eternal
sacrifice given Jesus Christ and the eternal unmerited gift given when believed holy spirit and forgiveness when we
verbally confess our broken fellowship and of course mean it.
baptism is not specified but baptism is stated and when you work the word baptise which can mean a pouring over
with water dipped in water or complete and internal cleansing spiritual. In Acts 9:17+18 when Paul was called out
the word baptised is internal and water is never mentioned. This action was given at the end of the law under John
the baptist ministry to prepare Israels hearts for the messiah before pentecost the spiritual birthday of the church. That
being said I have not apposed to it but getting the Job done Requires Romans 10:9+10 in the age of Grace according
to Paul's epistles.
requires Romans 10:9+10
God bless you and Happy New Year.
Then again, I do not find any scriptural support for your assertion that the church was in a transitional period and that somehow baptism in water ceased to be the norm for new converts. That is far from the truth as evidenced by historical documents kept by the early church and the practice throughout history. I also think that it is erroneous to put up such a view of Paul's commission to not baptize, but preach the gospel as being the normative for the apostles, disciples, and elders who served the church and the only acceptable practice among the churches. He was an evangelist, not an elder, bishop or overseer. One plants, another waters, and the Lord gives the increase.
Great Link!!
God bless.
It expressed using the term correctly.
I agree that the apostles new exactly what the Lord had them to do, But sorry I believe you are gravely in error of what that was. And Paul said Jesus ( Sent him not to baptize) But to preach the Gospel!!
1 Corinthians 1:17. You have to be consistent in your view. You expresses Matthew 28:19. BUT PAUL SAYS HE SENT HIM NOT TO BAPTIZE. And the scripture doesn't say anyone baptized for him..
If Paul would have been the Apostles to the Jews he would have been commissioned to baptize as well.
He would have been involved in this transition.
But this was not a commandment defined the way the commandment is defined in the ten commandments. To command as mentioned in Matthew is the act of Power.
Anything you add to the finish work of Christ is a heresy.
Again we NEVER was discussing an act of obedience, Circumcision was commandment but Circumcision didn't save lives. It's a cutting away of the flesh. Another action pointing to the finish work on the cross, as well as water baptism. Many in the first century church believed water baptism was to was away the leprosy of sin.
The Lord didn't come to clean us up.
Baptism is where the old man dies and is born again!! not a spiritual bath.
From what I have seen many of those who hold this view don't stop there, They believe you can loose your salvation,
Salvation is by works not grace! You don't know your saved until you are Judged ect..
There seems to be an absence of Christ supplied faith if you don't Know.
John says we can Know by the love we have one for another.
We are given strength to obey God's word by the Spirit AFTER we have been saved.
and that's not to remain saved, It's because we are saved.
And we shouldn't be partial.
We should obey Paul pastoral epistles as well. Don't you think?
God's ONE Baptism: Link
I do not wish to rehash these conversations once again. I posted because I wish to state support for the ages old practice of new converts being water baptized as is revealed in the book of Acts and attested to by the writers of the early church. I happen to think that they knew better than we do in this day and age what was practiced by the apostles disciples, and elders of the early church age. In Acts 19 Paul di baptize the converts of Apollo in water and then laid hands on them to receive the outpouring of the Holy Spirit immediately after being water baptized. I am also aware that Paul had stated that he did not come to baptize. This does not mean that he never did or did not instruct new believers to be baptized. It means that the elders present did the baptizing in water, not Paul. he did the preaching. The elders followed up with the new converts.
I do not see it fitting to re hash this topic, because those on neither "side" of the issue are going to change their minds on this. I believe my view is on the side of Scripture and the witness of the church through the centuries that Jesus promised to build. Those who despise this history will have to give an account to the Lord about why they refuse to follow His command and refute His witness in the church through the ages.
For me, I appreciate the opportunity to share ideas on this forum. I accept that people will have differences, and respect others viewpoint. But, also, for me, if someone is adamantly in opposition of doing something that Jesus commanded and the apostles practiced, then I tend to be cautious about receiving what they say on other matters as I believe they are teaching error on this.
It bares my name but may have gone to him.
You are correct, and a wonderful explanation on why as a Christian we should receive baptism as instructed by Christ. I agree, that water baptism has been the norm even before, and then during the 1st century church up to and including the present day!
Jesus instructs us to be baptized, and shows us here, how we should be baptized and the manner in which we receive the Holy Spirit:
Matthew 3:16
"And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:"
Jesus gave us many wonderful examples for us to follow, and Christ followers will follow Christ, and no one else!
God Bless.
It seems there is 2 things we are discussing here. For one there is many things that was practiced that isn't essential for salvation. These same arguments were present in apostles day. false practices and false doctrine crept in the Church in their day. Infact, you see it prophesied in the feast offerings with the leaven. It seems you are searching the scripture as an historian to get to this matter, but you mention nothing of Paul not baptizing as an apostle to the gentiles. I've mentioned the transition from Judaism with much explanation in the initial post, we want get into that here.
I'm carefully going over your post and there seems to be a bit confusion. We are not talking about THE POWER OF THE HOLYSPIRIT in which we are gifted for ministry, We are talking about being baptized into Christ death and resurrection which is done by the Holyspirit immediately at conversion. We are identified with him in death, when he died, we died. When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
(The church couldn't receive these gifts until after Christ died and rose from the dead) So their baptism into his death had already taken place before receiving the gifts.
So we are not substituting water baptism for baptism by the Holyspirit, we're saying ther is only one baptism as Paul mentions in Ephesians 4:4-6. I believe here Paul is saying there is only one way we are identified with Christ and the father and put into the body of believers. and that can only be done by the Holyspirit.
You seem to be saying the same thing in your reply; however it seems you define or term spirit baptism incorrectly.
Quoting you:
"I want to have all that God has for me, not just some. So, that is why I have been water and Spirit baptized, which happened after I was converted."
How can this happen after you were converted if it takes water baptism to be converted?
If you read all of Acts, you will find that water baptism was the general practice of the apostles when ministering to new believers. This practice continued all through the the apostolic times into the the early church times (past 100 A.D.) and has been the common orthodox practice throughout the centuries. It is only in recent times that people are substituting the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit for water baptism (which I think is a biblically errant substitution) . I am not saying that the enduement of the Holy Spirit is unbiblical, though. It is a wonderful action of the Holy Spirit in the life of believer to empower and equip one for service and exercise of spiritual gifts in the Church family. I think that Jesus wants believers to have both a water baptism (as each apostle/disciple had been done prior to Pentecost) and one of enduement of the Spirit (as on Pentecost), but it is the same Spirit that regenerates someone and gives faith to believe at conversion, indwells the new believer, is present at water baptism to do whatever God has determined to happen from it, and Who is poured out on a believer when one is endued with the Spirit. AS for me, I want to have all that God has for me, not just some. So, that is why I have been water and Spirit baptized, which happened after I was converted.
Mathew 3:10-11.
I would like to add one or two more things that I believe is to be very important. Whether by water baptism or baptism by the Holyspirit, is it evident in your life that spiritual baptism has taken place.
You will run into 2 major groups engage on this topic. One group is those who believe you are saved by confessing Jesus and keeping the commandments. Some of this group believe you can lose your salvation. This group is bond to a work base religion.
The other group believes "for by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Even the faith you are being saved through is not your faith! it is a gift of God!
You have nothing to offer God in terms of salvation! I hold this view.
True baptism when you "GENUINELY" accept Christ as your savior there is production in your life that begins. You can't produce it or keep it from producing as you feed on the word.
I will share a few by verses below and hopefully others can expand on them or add to.
Notice Paul' he didn't have much to say about water baptism, but he had a lot to say about baptism by the Holyspirit.
Romans 6:4.
Romans 6:6-8.
Romans 6:11.
It does well to study all of Romans 6 to expand a little on "the production' of spiritual baptism.
JOHNS BAPTISM.
you can see a picture of this transition for the Jews drawn out for you by Paul in Romans 7:1-2. Read all.
Now read Mathew 3:10-11.
Israel was a natural branch that didn't bear fruit. Jeremiah 2:21. "Nor could it"
Also read Mathew 21:42-44. and John 15:1-7.
Now let's get back to our 2 groups.
You have the 1st group I mentioned that put themselves in bondage as did Israel and despising the truth.
believing in baptism outwardly but unbaptized inwardly.
EXAMPLE: Romans 2:25-29.
The 2nd group
Philippians 3:3.
Galatians 3:13.
John 8:36.
The outcome.
1John 2:3.
1 John 4:21.
This Love cannot be produced by self.
God bless.
God bless.
I was a little afraid of being baptized in water. But something told me I had to try it. On the day of my baptism, I had bilateral pneumonia. But after the baptism in water, I actually started to get well right away!
So if there is anyone here who is constantly REMINDED and baptized but holds back defiantly, like a little infant. Then for your own sake you must learn and crawl to the CROSS. It may be that God has a greater service for you than the one you are in now.
Ill pray for u all who struggle with this. Because it's about doing something for the Lord. He who has done so MUCH for us. And if we talk about sex in this direction, we should be ashamed. If it should be. Then ladies can probably baptize each other on their own days and as I see it, no men need to see it at all.
Problem solved!
There should never be an obstacle in being baptized. Will anyone be responsible for that? And hold back God's will? Now then the grave of all water baptisms should always be open. Unless there is a river, or sea nearby and hot weather. Let everyone who wants to be baptized do it right away! Do not hold back. And we do not need swimsuits either, we can baptize in the clothes that each individual wants. White clothes are religious, the main thing is the water!
1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
God bless u and a Happy New Year too u all, Love u in Christ
Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7
Isaiah 6:8
Romans 1:20
Colossians 2:9
Acts 17:27-30
1 John 5:7
John 10:30
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and GODHEAD so that they are without excuse:"
Genesis 1:1
The Father purposes
The Word (Jesus) speaks. ( John 1:1)
The Spirit (Holy Spirit) executes the spoken word. Action.
All working together. Jesus came to show us the Father, as Emmanuel.
Matthew 1:23
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God WITH US. [Jesus]
1 Corinthians 12:1-31 explains all the gifts, titled, administrations that God gives to the Church that Jesus has planted on earth Now.
Those that He calls, he anoints for the work. Luke 4:18. The Bible says the gifts and callings are without revocation. If we try to operate without the Holy Spirits anointing; we will not bear good fruit. Can even become apostate.
It's not something to treat carelessly. The Head of the Church is Jesus Christ. All parts of the Body are connected to Jesus.
Jesus is High Priest, sitting at the right hand of God the Father in heaven now. He ministered (on earth) in all offices of Prophet, Teacher, The Good Shepherd (pastor) and Evangelist.
An Apostle is one who has seen the risen Christ. And who operates in all 5 offices of ministry. All of Jesus's Disciples (except Judas Iscariot), became Apostles. Who are Church planters. I think missionaries most qualify as Apostles. (My opinion)
Most important church people: are the praise and worship leaders. "Enter His Courts with Praise."