Deuteronomy Chapter 18 Discussion Page 3



 
  • Chris - in Reply on Deuteronomy 18
    Rick you state, "now in human birth the dominate genetics are on the fathers side, ie God created sperm in mary ie flesh and blood because God Almighty can do that is what made Jesus Christ the only begotten of God". Can I assume that you also believe that, with God's created (human) sperm, he used Mary's ovum to form this new Man? Or is there another possibility in your mind?

    If so, what are the implications for the transmission of the sin nature to Jesus, given that a human seed (which carries the fallen nature) is passed onto children? Of course, some do believe that Jesus had a sin nature & the occasion of temptation by Satan was to cause Jesus to succumb to that nature & become a sinner & hence a failure to be a Redeemer. But I'm not sure of your position, since you believe that a fusing of a Divine Seed & a human seed was involved.
  • Chris - in Reply on Deuteronomy 18
    Rick you state: "now we look look up those words back in old testament actual translation is my God my God for this purpose was I kept or spared you tell me what makes more sense." This is regards to Matthew 27:46 & Psalm 22:1. Where did you learn this interpretation from as both the Gospel & the Psalm agree with each other?

    Could it not be that in His Humanity, Jesus in agony cried out to His Father longing for that intimacy which He had before, but that the Father for the purpose of not taking away from the full impact of this Sacrifice, remained aloof & quiet. This would have been absolutely exceptional, extraordinary & devastating as Jesus always enjoyed intimacy with the Father, but now the Father was suddenly silent at a time that His Son needed Him most. I might be wrong with this understanding - how do you see it?
  • Jimers - in Reply on Deuteronomy 18
    This faith and works thing comes up a lot over the years...... I do know one particular verse that says:

    Faith without works is dead....... food for thought for sure. Of course then what is works...?

    Works can be simply doing Gods word of something rather physical. Giving something to the poor can be works.

    Getting up early after working late and going to church on Sunday morning can be works.

    Of course works without faith --- would be very hard to have I suspect. An athiest can have works but without faith.
  • Jimers - in Reply on Deuteronomy 18
    Eating of pork is acceptable in the N.T.

    There seems to be an indication that blood is excluded. As per blood pudding etc.

    Animals that haven't been bled.
  • Chris - in Reply on Deuteronomy 18
    The only Scripture that comes to mind is found in Matthew 18:10, however, the reference to "little ones' here speaks about all people who come to God in humility & as "little children", that they inherit or enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

    So Jesus' warning is that one should not "despise", or harm, one of these "children of the Kingdom", as "their angels always behold the Face of My Father which is in Heaven". This to me doesn't speak of guardian angels but of a legal environment whereby false accusations or pain that is given to God's people, doesn't go unnoticed by God: His angels bearing witness to these wicked actions of men. And from these verses, the idea has developed that every child has a guardian angel watching over them, when in fact angels are the ministers of God who go about fulfilling the Will of God, of which Will, representation & reporting on our behalf is made before God.
  • Bobbi on Deuteronomy 18
    what dose it say in new testment about eating pork
  • Rick Mentzer - in Reply on Deuteronomy 18
    Chris in the early church Jesus Christ was never elevated to the level of God that being said don't think one minute that in my Head that takes away from what he did his perfect walk His absolutely unbelievable sacrifice for people who don't give a ---- but what His father and if you're a believer now are father knew is that their would be people who would come to him just by believing his written word in their hearts and be given eternal life. We got to do what mary paul and others did be it unto me according to thy word. To think we have never seen Him but we believe and are eventually headed to a new heaven and earth wherein dwelleth righteous our new home. Yippee
  • Rick Mentzer - in Reply on Deuteronomy 18
    In the beginning did not God speak ie His word creation into being so once a women ie mary met the criterior ie Gabriel spoke Gods words to her what God was going to do she believed and sayed be it unto be accord to thy word, now in human birth the dominate genetics are on the fathers side, ie God created sperm in mary ie flesh and blood because God Almighty can do that is what made Jesus Christ the only begotten of God. Later on John the baptists baptised him because he had to fulfill all the law then you read the spirit descended on Him like as a dove. Up until His time men had spirit upon them in measure He was given all of Gods power and authority, and still humbled Himself and said I can do nothing without my father i.e. His Spiritual connection unbreakable. Make no mistake Adam was perfect and blew did not keep Gods Word, the Second Adam Jesus Christ did'nt blow it he never disobeyed his fathers will. But remember he was a human being who the hell beat out of Himself and never broke down just thinking on that should blow anybodies mind if they choose to believe, what a complete saviour God Bless.
  • Sacha on Deuteronomy 18
    Hello ,please ,can someone tell me where to look in the Bible for me to find out about hell ? I want to know what happens there ,are people tortured by demons for ever ? Who exactly is going there ? Only people who have not been baptized ? That would be an enormous number ,can someone please tell me where it tells us about hell in the Bible ? Im trying to find it but i cant ,i havent been reading the Bible for very long . Thankyou .
  • Rick Mentzer - in Reply on Deuteronomy 18
    Reply to Chris their not showing my response sorry, and as I figured their not agreeing or liking it, so God Bless.
  • Richard in Christ - in Reply on Deuteronomy 18
    How would you explain these couple of verses from the book of Revelation if God the Father was also Jesus Christ? Which is what I think you perceive.

    3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in His throne.

    To denote God Almighty is on the throne here:

    4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

    Here that the Lamb came and took the scroll from God Almighty:

    5:1 And I saw in the right hand of HIM that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

    5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

    5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

    5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

    5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

    5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

    5:7 And HE came and took the book out of the right hand of HIM that sat upon the throne.

    God Almighty is my Perfect Holy Father and Jesus Christ is my Lord and Perfect Brother. Saying they are ONE(which may confuse some people) is not of this world here below. It is from above. If people have a hard time understanding it that's ok. As someone else stated that understanding everything is not what is important. Faith and Trust in the Lord is important.

    Peace
  • Faith on Deuteronomy 18
    I read a verse in the King James Bible that I am unable to find. It was in the old testament. It referred to children having an angel watching over them, but I don't believe the word angel was used.
  • Truth seeker - in Reply on Deuteronomy 18
    My take is either Jesus is the Son of God that the Bible clearly states many times . The rest is confusion that is not clear .

    You can not be son of yourself in any thing . By one's imagination.
  • Truth - in Reply on Deuteronomy 18
    Jesus is either the son of God as the word says or God that the word does not say .

    Jesus being born of God had a relationship with God the obviously was before the foundation of the world , simply because so was God Before and after this world . Not rocket science.
  • Chris - in Reply on Deuteronomy 18
    That's very true. Jesus was always called the Son of God, & so He was (& is). But the question really is: but where did Jesus, the Son of God, come from? Was it from the Being or Essence of God, or was He a new human creation (with the fusing of the Divine & human seed)?
  • Robert Malit - in Reply on Deuteronomy 18
    Brother Chris, the following might help us all to really know who our God is. As Christians, we all believe in God, but at one time or another, we were also exposed to the preaching of false teachers.

    JESUS is LORD, God with biblical proofs, no Trinity

    Old Testament Prophesy of Isaiah is very important, as his prophecy was fulfilled in the New Testament and revealed the name of God, whose name was kept secret in the Old Testament:

    Isaiah 44:6 6Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

    Isaiah 7:14 - Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

    New Testament Prophet Isaiah prophecy fulfilled.

    Matthew 1:24 Context 21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. 22Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, 23Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

    Apostle John in Revelation

    Revelation 1:8 - 9 8I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. 9I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    Revelation 22:13 13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

    Revelation 1:17 - 18 17And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
  • Adam - in Reply on Deuteronomy 18
    Robert, I literally quoted the Bible and broke it down to word for word detail, but instead you call me a 'twister' which seems like a disrespectful thing to say to someone. Instead actually sharing evidence yourself it seems you dodge and talk about other things to justify your belief. What if the Bible is right and you're interpretation is incorrect? What if you're actually the "twister"?

    1 John 5:7 - is so simple a child can understand what it means. I know what it means. Do you? Have you prayed about it with an open heart and asked God to reveal His truth to you?

    1 John 4:3 - The Bible says someone who doesn't believe Jesus is from God has the spirit of the anti Christ. That is a very serious matter.

    Have you looked up these verses and prayed about this?
  • Chris - in Reply on Deuteronomy 18
    Thanks Rick. Of course, I understand that certain 'English' words needed to be used to closely interpret the original language & at times there would be limitations to its intended meaning simply because of the nature of languages. But I believe that we do have as best a translation as possible that can be totally relied upon & with ample supporting Scriptures throughout which we can use to cross-reference to learn the meaning.

    But if you sense that words have been added or subtracted from the Bible to suit someone's whims & fancies, then we fall into the same trap as our Islamic accusers who believe that the Bible has been altered using the same accusation of addition & subtraction. When I ask proof from them, all they have is to compare it to the Quran & have no idea what biblical Scriptures have been changed or when the changes occurred.

    I realize that you're not suggesting that, but that in a lesser way you suggest that there are word usages in the Bible that may not be in the original. Then again, the request has to be declared, 'Where are the changes in the Bible & how have they affected the Truth shared or our understanding of them?' I've re-looked at my references ( Colossians 1:16,17 & John 1:1-3, if these are the ones in your focus), & stand by in my understanding as given in the Word. What I would however like to read from someone, is that some other Scripture(s) has been found that should alter my understanding, to which I would be compelled to give due consideration. But thus far, with all my efforts (bar Robert Malit latterly), none have come forward. Disappointing.
  • Richard in Christ - in Reply on Deuteronomy 18
    Brother Robert,

    Interesting.

    So you believe if we say three "persons" in ONE is false.

    But you say three "manifestations" in ONE is correct.

    I really don't see the problem here. When saying three "persons", of the Godhead, it should be known this is of the Spirit of God. Not like three separate human flesh people. They are all ONE.

    Although all through the Bible you have Jesus speaking and praying to His Father. The Father from Heaven speaking down unto His Son and Jesus speaking of the Comforter, Spirit of Truth, or Holy Ghost as "Him".

    So if you believe that was just God from above talking down to Himself, and Jesus praying and talking to Himself, well that's how you perceive it.

    Throughout the NT it seems pretty intertwining of the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ, and the Holy Ghost being in you when saved. As they are ONE.

    Of coarse God is in everything and knows everything about everyone whether saved or not.

    I pray to God our Father and Jesus Christ as they are two. Even though I know they are ONE. Jesus Christ is the only way to the Father.

    So really Robert I don't see much differentiation in beliefs of the Lord. At least not enough to judge others and tell them they don't understand and are wrong. You say three "manifests" others say three "persons".

    May we all come together in the Lord. God Bless.
  • Robert - in Reply on Deuteronomy 18
    Adam you really are a twister when it comes to scriptures, no debate is worthy , not even in the ball park Adam .

    With out the spirit of truth, just about any form of doctrine is possible as you prove .
  • Chris - in Reply on Deuteronomy 18
    Thanks Robert for your detailed explanation. I can only deal with one aspect of what you have said & that is on the verses that show the Christ Jesus is now risen & is seated at God's right Hand. I've checked the Greek in each of the cited verses, & they show a physical position of 'sitting' (kathemenos), at the 'right hand' (dexion), & of 'God' (Theos).

    You have written: "Explanation = "right hand of God" is an idiomatic expression that means "Power" or "Authority", not location". How have you arrived at this 'explanation', given that the original language specifically states that Jesus' position is 'seated', 'at God's right Hand', & beside 'God', which you state He's no longer there, because Jesus is now God?

    An idiom is something quite different: such as "hang one's head (in shame)", or to "kick the bucket", where clearly it is an expression to attract a response, an action. That Christ rose in victory over death & for our justification before God is seen in Romans 4:24,25: "But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification." By transliteration: 'To us also, that our faith shall be imputed for righteousness (v 22), if we believe on God Who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead, being delivered for our sins & raised that we might be justified by God'.

    And then in Hebrews 10:12: "But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God". The same thought is expressed that Christ rose from the dead by God's Power & took up his rightful place at the Father's right Hand. This can't be an idiomatic expression, as the existence of the Person of God is present, who raised Jesus from the dead, God had to be fully satisfied (Christ was our propitiation for sins) & God could only then justify us - no other event could secure us. God is present & Jesus at His right Hand receiving worship.
  • Robert Malit - in Reply on Deuteronomy 18
    Another explanation of the Godhead - One God name Jesus

    Another explanation of Jesus as God, Spirit, Word, other titles:

    An example, a man: he can be a "husband" to his wife, (did his number change? No), he can be a "father" to his children and at the same time, a "President" of his company and boss of his employees; the man has 3 different titles serving different functions, yet being the same person. So with the Godhead: 3 titles or functions or manifestations but the same one God.

    Another example: imagine yourself to possess the power to transform into different creatures. One day you want to swim in the ocean, you changed to a fish. After you become a fish, did your number multiply? No, you simply became a fish. Now, you want to fly in the sky, you changed into a bird. Did your number multiply? Again no. Then you changed into an ox to graze through the grassland. Still your number didn't multiply into two or three beings but changed into the creature you wanted to be. The mystery behind the Godhead is as simple as this. Why do we have to complicate things?
  • Adam - in Reply on Deuteronomy 18
    Dear Robert,

    I like the format and numbers you used in your comment. I just don't agree with your interpretation.

    For instance "2.God the Son - is not found in the Bible," except it absolutely is found in the Bible. Have you read the book of John chapter 1? "The Word was God" is very clear. It's so clear it's hard to debate, it would almost be dishonest to conclude that the Word "was not" God. To me, that's no different than a serpent slithering up to and saying to ignore this verse, that instead it's "not" God. I trust the Bible and it is 100% clear what that means. So, let's say that someone then claims "Well, the Word isn't Jesus though, cause it could still be the Father." Nope. The Bible already answered that in advance too if you look at verse 14. It says He was made flesh and dwelled among us and refers to His "father." That narrows it down so much that there is zero other options than it being Jesus.

    Jesus is God and He's different than the Father. Even then if someone denies the book of John there even MORE verses which support the same conclusion. When you then have a mountain of evidence that says the same thing, it starts building a case for a certain understanding of reality. Then for the holy spirit you have verses like Isaiah 61:1 that says the holy spirit is The Spirit of the Lord GOD. So that debunks the claim that the holy spirit "isn't God." A trinity then seems like an appropriate word to explain the relationship. People often get caught up in terminology, like how can one be another but separate at the same time. An apple has parts like skin, inner juicy part, and seeds and each is an Apple, but each has a different role. The Bible is clear in how it describes the relationship. So, denying it just seems like denying an apple. God bless...
  • Ricky D Mentzer - in Reply on Deuteronomy 18
    Not disagreeing with you on concerning the trinity God has always been eternal and omnipomnipresent all powerful and all knowing and spirit to say that Jesus Christ is spirit and all powerful and everywhere present show me that also gift of holy spirit came on day of Pentecost given to all who choose to believe for first time in history birthday of church also one other point nowhere in the gospels does either the devil or devil spirits call him God they call Him Son of God and if anybody knew who he is it would surely be his arch enemy.
  • Chris - in Reply on Deuteronomy 18
    Are you sure your comment is to me? For me to lighten up??
  • Chris - in Reply on Deuteronomy 18
    I understand Rick. However, my reply was to Robert Malit who has made some interesting comments that I seek clarification on. And it's true, that the Doctrine of the Trinity is complex & beyond our human comprehension, as we've never seen or experienced anything like it in our earthly sojourn (apart from applying some weak examples to describe it).

    But what we do understand of it that's found in the Word is worthy of discussion, understanding & acceptance. The real question then is: if Jesus isn't an indivisible part of the Godhead (whether pre or post incarnation), does that belief affect our faith in any way, God's acceptance of us & indeed our salvation? If the answer is "No", our deliberations on this doctrine are indeed wasted. But if "Yes", it's important that we believe what Scripture, as written, says about it for our learning & for the basis & truth of our faith. Then 2 John 1:7 becomes a very cutting Word to us, as clearly John speaks of those who don't acknowledge Jesus (as God's Word) has come in the flesh - the same thought he carries through from his Gospel. There are many today, as in those early Church days, who denied the deity of Christ: they certainly believed in an historical Jesus (they saw & heard Him), but to know & believe that this One of God came out of God, is blasphemy to them & reveals a 'different' spirit of utterance.

    However, I never pursue this, or any other teaching, with those who would refrain; but if a comment is made, then it is proper that the Scriptures are properly exegeted in support, or else we are just mouthing empty words into the air that may well be the cause of ignorance & diversion from the Truth for many seeking help in the Word. Blessings to you.
  • Robert Malit - in Reply on Deuteronomy 18
    Continuation

    Perspective Helps Us Understand God

    Old Testament = God is a Spirit, invisible to the naked eye. Attributes are: Omnipotent - all powerful, can do anything nothing is impossible; omnipresent - is everywhere; omniscient - knows everything and anything; unchanging - never change, time and space doesn't affect him; eternal - everlasting, has no beginning nor ending;

    Time Perspective:

    Old Testament

    Adam to Noah = 1,656 years

    Adam to Joseph = 2,513 years

    Adam to King Solomon = 4,008 years

    Explanation = "right hand of God" is an idiomatic expression that means "Power" or "Authority", not location

    Another explanation: for Trinity 3 persons in 1 God: (only 1/3 true; 2/3 false)

    1.God the Father - is found in the Bible,

    2.God the Son - is not found in the Bible,

    3.God the Holy Spirit - is not found in the Bible.

    In the Old Testament, the name of God was kept secret. But, Prophet Isaiah prophesied the #2 manifestation of God, and this was fulfilled when a virgin conceived by the Holy Ghost - a child born name Jesus - to saved the people of God.

    God has manifested himself 3 times in 3 different time frames, not 3 persons.

    Explanation for God the Father: #1 manifestation = God a Spirit in Old Testament, #2 manifestation = humbled himself in the flesh as a man name Jesus - suffered, shed blood for remission of sins of man; died, buried, risen, #3 manifestation = ascended into heaven sent Holy Spirit down to indwell in our hearts.
  • Robert Malit - in Reply on Deuteronomy 18
    Hi Cris, here is my reply

    Answer to your questions, back up with biblical proofs:

    Colossians 1:16 - 17 16For by him (JESUS) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him (JESUS), and for him (JESUS): 17And he (JESUS) is before all things, and by him (JESUS) all things consist.

    1 John 1:3 Context 1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life (JESUS); 2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) 3That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

    Mark 16:19 19So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

    Luke 22:69 68And if I also ask you, ye will not answer me, nor let me go. 69Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.

    Acts 7:56 56And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

    Romans 8:34 34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

    Hebrews 10:12 12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

    1 Peter 3:22 22Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

    Perspective Helps Us Understand God

    Old Testament = God is a Spirit, invisible to the naked eye. Attributes are: Omnipotent - all powerful, can do anything nothing is impossible; omnipresent - is everywhere;
  • Rick Mentzer - in Reply on Deuteronomy 18
    Sir I fully understand what you are saying yes depending on whos reading it punctuation changes themeaning as do center references and chapters, I in no way shape or reasoning or idea am I trying to get someone to believe my personal belief system. The apostle Paul who was given the revelation for the church and how it is supposed to function and operate and to this day there are individuals who argue water baptism or holy spirit or both, is speaking in tongues right or wrong, the apostle paul went up against the same thing and no I'm not advocating I'm as spiritual as he give me a break but it says in the timothy epistles that all of asia turn away from him and followed other doctrines and that was only about 70 years after pentecost so if you choose to believe that what we have in translation is word for word what these men were given by God thats fine with me your choice. By the way an example of poor translation which doesn't fit, on the cross Jesus Christ said the words eli eli lama sabbachthani that is to say my Gog my God why has thou forsaken me. Now since Jesus Christ always did the will of his father and told his disciples my father is always with me and his purpose was to buy us back by giving himself I.E. sinless blood you can't seperate that now we look look up those words back in old testament actual translation is my God my God for this purpose was I kept or spared you tell me what makes more sense. Again I've met people who were shown this and won't teach it because most people won't believe it and thats there privilege.
  • Richard in Christ on Deuteronomy 18
    There are many, many, parallels in the book of Enoch to the Holy Bible.

    In "The Book of Parables" from Enoch it elaborates on the Son of Man, The Chosen One, or Messiah(I believe Jesus Christ) to be with, or in the presence of, The Most High, Lord of Spirits, or Ancient "Head" of Days(I believe God Almighty).

    And at that hour that Son of Man was named, in the presence of the Lord of Spirits, and His name brought to the Head of Days.



    Even before the sun and the constellations were created, before the stars of Heaven were made, His name was named in front of the Lord of Spirits.

    He will be a staff to the righteous and the Holy, so that they may lean on Him and not fall, and He will be the Light of the Nations, and He will be the hope of those who grieve in their hearts.



    All those who dwell upon the dry ground will fall down and worship in front of Him, and they will bless, and praise the name of the Lord of Spirits.

    And because of this He was chosen, and hidden in front of Him, before the World was created, and forever.

    For the Chosen One stands in front of the Lord of Spirits. As His Glory is for ever and ever, and His Power for all generations.

    You powerful kings who dwell upon the dry ground will be obliged to watch my Chosen One sit down on the throne of My Glory, and judge, in the Name of the Lord of Spirits

    And in Him dwell the Spirit of wisdom, and the Spirit of understanding, and the Spirit of knowledge and power, and the Spirit of righteousness.

    And He will judge the things that are secret, and no one will be able to say an idle word in front of Him, for He has been chosen in front of the Lord of Spirits, in accordance with His wish.

    For He is powerful in all the secrets of righteousness and iniquity will pass away like a shadow, and will have no existence; for the Chosen One stands in front of the Lord of Spirits and His Glory is for ever and ever, and His Power for all generations.

    If God and Jesus are the same who is this?


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