Daniel Chapter 7 Discussion


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  • Chris
    Paul, that's an interesting comment you make, one which I had not given much thought to as I understood it as read. So, you're saying, "I do not believe for one second (that) Jesus had a flaw or sweated blood". That is very true if it were indeed 'a flaw or actual blood'. And yes, the mention of it in Luke 22:44 is the only one, which I suspect is so because of Luke's profession & interest in all things medical.

    Hematohidrosis, which the medical doctors class this as, seemed very likely what Jesus was experiencing at the Mt. of Olives. Yes, it is a condition, even rare by all accounts, but should it be classified as a 'flaw (in Jesus' perfect Body)? This condition has been observed in others who are experiencing extreme moments of stress & anguish (e.g. some soldiers about to enter into battle), so Luke describes this occurrence to show us the agony of our Lord as He also contemplated the full implications of His Sacrifice. Not just in a physical torture & death, but for the eternal release of those caged in sin & hell bound.

    Also, what do you make of John 19:34? At the spearing of Jesus' side, both blood & water spewed out. Was this too a 'flaw'? Or, maybe a physiological reaction to the rupture of the pericardium of the heart, which was filled with fluid as a result of a crucifixion, & brought forth that liquid (water) & blood from ruptured veins & arteries.

    So, I don't see either of these events as flaws, but serving to prove to us once again, the full humanity in every detail, that Jesus took upon Himself so that he would suffer & die as a man (yet a perfect Man) without avoiding any of the torture we would have faced if put in a similar position. And our crucifixion & death would have been justified as sinners, but this Man did nothing amiss, was sinless, but for OUR sins He came & died.
  • Paul O
    PAULO to Chris

    I thank you from my heart that you took the time to give my question some thought. For Jesus to be a perfect sacrifice, there cannot be any kind of flaw. There is such a thing as a FLOP SWEAT, which is a common occurrence for anyone going through a serious traumatic time. I have had FLOP SWEATS... they are not rare and are not the result of medical condition, but the manifestation of a very trying and worrying time. During the Passover period, the head of a house would hand pick a LAMB that had no SPOT or FLAW, the lamb would be fully examined and checked on a regular basis for any kind of blemish. This process lasted a number of days, and when the head of the house was fully satisfied that the lamb was without flaw, then and only then would that lamb be sacrificed. These selected lambs were VISIBLY perfect. Jesus is the son of God. No one measures up. We all fall short, regardless. Any man on this earth would, and did pale in comparison. In the garden of Gethsemane Jesus was a stones throw away from his disciples, and he prayed alone. He briefly visited them on 2 occasions and found them sleeping. The third time was the last time and Jesus was about to be betrayed. If Jesus sweated blood, the disciples would have been shocked at the sight, as they would have thought he had been injured while they slept. This would have been recorded in detail. It was not. The man who wrote the LUKE account was either also asleep, or he was not there. This account can not be deemed as fact, but more like imaginative artistic description. The KJV of the Bible, is world renowned as being the most accurate translation, and my version says HIS SWEAT WAS AS IT WERE GREAT DROPS OF BLOOD FALLING TO THE GROUND... no one was there to see any blood fall, and it was never mentioned when he came back to the sleeping disciples.....ANY WAY, the blood and water out of the wound on Jesus's side was due to interior trauma that is caused by the act of crucifixion.
  • Chris
    Thanks Paul for your further comments on this. They are appreciated & noted. I suppose Jesus' sweat could well have appeared as blood, or maybe, in a certain light stream, gave one the impression that it was blood. In any case, all this is speculation & has to be taken at face value but realizing that our Lord's agony was very real & the prospect of attending to & completing His Father's Plan for mankind, added to this grave task before Him.
  • Paul O
    A question for anyone .... jesus was deemed as the perfect sacrifice, without spot or blemish, without sin and as the son of the almighty god, was a perfect man.

    the night before his crucifixion, jesus and a select few disciples went to the garden of gethsemane. the account in luke ..... indicates.... that jesus sweated blood. no other gospel says anything like that. before i go any further.... i want to make myself very clear. my lord and savior was without spot and an absolute perfect sacrifice.

    why would my lord and redeemer.....the perfect sacrifice, have a medical condition which would allow him to sweat blood.

    i have the king james bible... the words say ... like large drops of blood.... why do many many, preachers and pastors insist on bestowing the perfect sacrifice with an affliction that would render my lord and savoir an imperfect man with flaws.

    not only that ..... why does no one mention the blood which would have been running down the lords face and covering his cloths, and dripping off his hair......

    i do not believe......for 1 second... jesus had a flaw, or sweated blood.... feel free to gasp in shock and hate my words....but...read the word of the lord... and remember, we should question everything....
  • Larry for verse 20
    What does Stout mean in Daniel 7:20 i.e. "whose look was more stout than his fellows" is it referring to being short and fat, or a physical characteristic. Or does it refer to being bold, larger than, look more imposing??

    Thanks you
  • Elona Jean Boykin
    Daniel 7:20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

    This verse is talking about the rise of America, which is the last kingdom that will fall. Stout stands for the fatness of wealth that American has and ruling over the whole world.
  • Opoipirwoth Macmillan
    Please I need help on the book of Daniel in 7, pls may some one help explain the prophesy? what does the prophet meant about the sea, the beast with the four wings and four heads? does he mean what has already happened, or what's gonna happen?
  • Bob Hilt
    The whore that sits on many WATERS

    Revelation 17:15 And he saith unto me, The WATERS waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. ( are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.)

    ......Revelation 18:24 - And in her (Babylon) was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

    babylon was responsible for the BLOOD of PROPHETS, keep this in mind.

    Revelation 16:6 - For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.

    Revelation 17:6 - And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

    Mystery Babylon killed the prophets

    Jesus speaking Luke 13:33 - Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

    for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem. I do not see Rome here since when did the Lord send prophets to Rome?

    Jesus - Matthew 23:37 - O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

    the two witnesses of God who confront the false prophet are mentioned here:

    Revelation 11:8 - And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

    Jesus, MY LORD was crucified in JERUSALEM, which is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt.

    NOT in Rome nor in Mecca nor in the USA
  • Ira israel
    He was crucified in America which is spiritual egypt in the bible..his image was crucified and his teachings..no where in the bible is a white christ..if so prove me wrong
  • Bob Hilt
    Ira, you write prove you wrong Jesus was not white? Well here you go but I am not sure you shall believe the Bible.

    Revelation 1:14 - His [Jesus] HEAD head and his hairs were WHITE white like wool, as WHITE white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; 15 And his feet like unto fine brass,

    (Brass is made of copper which is REDDISH GOLDEN BROWN, not black) as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

    Bible book Song of Solomon 5:10 - My beloved is WHITE white and ruddy, the chiefest among ten thousand.

    Bible book Lamentations 4:7 - Her Nazarites were purer than snow, they were WHITER whiter than milk, they were more ruddy in body than rubies, their polishing was of sapphire:

    My Jesus was crucified in Jerusalem and you claim your Christ was crucified in America? what?
  • Bob Smith
    Go on youtube and look up Kent Hovind and his videos on the WOE Class. I think there is 12 to 14 videos by him on this subject. Very good!!!
  • Frank
    This dream is similar to the dream that God showed to Nebuchadnezzar. Daniel 7:13-The four great beasts are the four kingdoms that will rise from the earth, in the previous chapter, four kingdoms was also mentioned, is this the same prophecy? Is Rome the fourth kingdom?

    The first beast is Babylon, Babylon is compared with a lion with eagle wings-Daniel 2:38. Babylon was very powerful in those days, ruler of the beast is lion and ruler of the birds is engle.

    The 2nd beast is bear- why was the bear raised on one of its side-Persia was stronger than the Media which became the Persian empire. The bear had three ribs in the month-the Persian conquered 3 kingdoms-Babylon, Lydia and Egypt.

    The 3rd beast looked like a leopard, Greece is compared to a leopard, leopard is fast and one with wings is even faster, Alexander the Great conquered the whole civilized world in about 8 years. Alexander died at the age of 33, his son was too young to rule and so the kingdom was ruled by four generals, that was why the leopard has four heads.

    Rome is the 4th beast, a little known kingdom that waged war against the churches and destroyed them. The little horn kingdom are the anti Christ or satan. The 10 horns are ten kings that will come from these kingdoms.

    The little 10 horns will come from Rome, will subdue 3 of the 10 horns, change the laws and times and oppress the saint. Whoever fulfills this is an anti Christ.

    Note that the anti christ will come from Rome and will have his own kingdom, and it's own constitution.
  • Chris
    Daniel chapter 7 prophecies speak of the various earthly kingdoms through the ages. I can't go into too much detail here: you should do further research. But here's a quick outline.

    1. v3: the four beasts that Daniel saw, were the four great kingdoms on Earth. The first was a lion with eagle's wings. This represented the Babylonian Empire, during which Daniel lived.

    2. v5: the second was a bear & this animal represented the Medo-Persian Empire which succeeded the Babylonian.

    3. v6: the third was a leopard with four wings & four heads. This represented the Greek Empire.

    4. vv7,8: the fourth beast was indescribable because of its ferocity. And this beast represented the Roman Empire.

    "The sea" may have been the Mediterranean Sea, to which all these Empires have some connection to. "The beast with the four wings & the four heads" = the Leopard. Alexander the Great speedily (= the wings) conquered the civilized world by the age of 28 from Illyricum to the River Ganges (= India). As well, after his death, his Empire was divided into four parts (= 4 heads): Asia Minor, Syria, Egypt & Macedonia.

    As you know, that all these Empires have come & gone according to prophecy, but there is something still remaining. Even though the Roman Empire has long gone, there are still ten horns from it that exist. We can't tell who these ten rulers are but appear to be some confederation of ten nations who will arise during the day of the Anti-Christ (= little horn, v8), who comes out of the ten nations. See Daniel 7:23-25 & Revelation 12:3. So there is still prophecy to be fulfilled & we need to be watching out for certain countries that will come to the forefront in preparation for their rebellion against God & His Christ.

    I hope this helps you in understanding this passage.
  • Bob Hilt
    The whore that sits on many WATERS

    Revelation 17:15 And he saith unto me, The WATERS waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. ( are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.)

    ......Revelation 18:24 - And in her (Babylon) was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

    babylon was responsible for the BLOOD of PROPHETS.

    Revelation 16:6 - For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.

    Revelation 17:6 - And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

    Mystery Babylon killed the prophets

    Jesus speaking Luke 13:33 - Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

    for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

    Jesus - Matthew 23:37 - O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

    the two witnesses of God are mentioned here:

    Revelation 11:8 - And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

    Jesus, MY LORD was crucified in JERUSALEM, which is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt.

    NOT Rome nor in Mecca or the USA
  • Tbh
    I would appreciate insight into Isaiah chapter 30. Verse 26 caught my attention as I was reading and as I read and researched deeper I feel it is an important chapter. At least for me in this season of my life. I feel like Lord has a revellation he is about to show me. Would especially like to hear from those who have wisdom and knowledge of Hebrew and Greek translations and how translation applies to this chapter. Thanks. Praise Jesus
  • Neal Pyle for verse 7
    How does the beast of Daniel 7 indicate we are in the last days and what do the ribs in the bears mouth mean, can you give me a good resource for studying Daniel?
  • Bob Hilt for verse 7
    I can not prove this from the Bible however the bear is a symbol of russian communism. In the last 100 or so years millions of Christians died at the hands of communism. Stalin killed many more than Hitler ever did and that fact of history is hidden well. I suppose Christian blood is just not important to the printers of history books and the media.
  • Deborah Green
    It is historical and written facts. I believe and trust the kJV and every word of it.
  • Diane
    Revelation 17:12 the kings have authority and power one hour with the beasts, so these kings are used at the end times. Revelation 18:17 I think God must use these kings for his purpose to destroy Babylon the great in one hour. No word Rapture, but go back to the original language and meaning of caught up in 1Thess 4:17 this means harpazo -seizing, snatching, obtain by robbery Like a thief in the night ?
  • Jo
    Verse 25 the wearing out of the saints hmm...and to think to change times and laws Sat sabbath changed already to Sun hmm... I wondered does the wearing out the saints dismiss the rapture theory? Much study is still needed.
  • Little Helper
    Let me help you - First figure out "who" the "Saints" are: Psalms 148:14-He also exalteth the horn of his people, the praise of all his saints even of the children of Israel, a people near unto him. Praise ye the LORD. According to this verse, the "saints" are Israelite's and no other nationality. Also look at Psalms 50:5 The word "Rapture" isn't even in the Bible, but ppl talk it up like it is
  • Stanjett
    And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him. Hitherto is the end of the matter. Or we win in the end.
  • Servant of Jesus
    Who are the 10 kings? I assume they have already come and gone, because the one who "rises after them" is undoubtedly the antichrist.
  • Seventh day is sabbath
    Yes..The little horn is the antichrist...Papal Rome
  • Seventh day is sabbath
    The 10 kings represent 10 kingdoms that were divided from the Western Roman Empire. They were and are as follows. 1 Alemanni - Germany. 2. Franks - France. 3. Burgundians - Switzerland. 4. Suevi - Portugal. 5. Vandals - Exterminated. 6. Visigoths - Spain. 7. Anglo-Saxons - England. 8. Ostrogoths - Exterminated. 9. Lombards - Italy. 10. Heruli - Exterminated. Go to..... Dan. bible prophecy org
  • Larry Peacock
    in verse 9 ancient of days is this referring to the son of man. in verse 13 ancient of days is this referring to son of God the Father.
  • TRUTH
    the word black in the bible is used as judgment, sin, and death.
  • Clivonda Whitfield
    you need to back that up with scripture. but I know you cannot because that is incorrect
  • Been called a Bible Thumper
    Michael Williams, interesting comment. But you need to backup what say with scripter.
  • Marlo
    The 10 horns of the 4th beast are the 7 heads of Revelation 13, and 17. The little horn is the 8th beast of Revelation 17, the final beast kingdom upon the earth, Antichrist. Hence why front Daniel's vision to John's vision, three of the horns are subdued by this time. Also a bonus point, these horns have advanced to heads Kings in Revelation.


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