Yesterday as I was reading the Bible I noticed something. I was reading in 1 Thess 4:13-18 the rapture of the church. In a few words it says that the Lord will descend from Heaven, then the dead at that time will rise and those alive will be transformed and we altogether will be caught up to the air. Then I went to Rev 19:6-16 and read the events just before the second coming of Jesus. I noticed that according to the description in Rev the saints up there were resurrected before the second coming of Jesus, the scripture says "for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints". This is before Jesus descends from Heaven.So the rapture (if this is the rapture as some brothers believe) takes pace definitely before the second coming of Jesus onto earth.
Why do I think that those two incidents don't match together if they refer to the same event, the rapture? Anybody wants to answer?
NATION shall rise against NATION ... Will be G7, and G-20, and UN, among other World Entites, DISSOLVED?
Get ready, yes, get ready
Our GOD is in control of History, nothing random happens.
Remember: Our GOD rests of His works in this seventh and last Day, or seventh and last millennium after Adam. By the way, GOD sent JESUS - the Word made flesh( John 1:14), He is the true God, and eternal life, and we know that the Son of GOD came (IN THE FOURTH DAY- John 5:17, take a look, or around 4000 years after Adam, even around 2000 years ago), and hath given us an understanding, that we may know Him that is True, and we are in Him that is True, even in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and Eternal life- 1John 5:19-20.
Our Lord JESUS said: All Power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Our Lord JESUS will exert all His Power from this beginning of this seventh and final millennium to destroy the works of the Devil, to destroy the Devil's WORLD with its all kind of structures: religious, and economic,social,military, among other systems of the satanic organizations and systems.By the way, The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ;and He shall reign for ever and ever- Revelation 11:15-18.Take a look.
By the way, one of the 7 heads of the MAN Beast of sea- Revelation 13:1-10- will be wounded to death; but his deadly wound will be healed (but how? well, the dragon( Revelation 13:11, will give to the MAN Beast of sea his Power, and his Seat (in Jerusalem), and great Authority- Revelation 13:2), and all the world ( Luke 21:24 combined with Revelation 11:2) will wonder after the MAN Beast of sea.
Be careful and get ready
Well, Celebration of the Lamb's marriage? ONLY AFTER THE JUDGMENT OF BABYLON. (see the site of purebibleforum)
Revelation 18:4- Come out of her,my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
I know I may be in the minority of this but, they do not match if we say Jesus comes for the Church and takes those resurrected and those who are still living who will be changed back up to heaven. Many say the church is the bride and when the Church is raptured to heaven the marriage supper will then be in heaven. In 1 Thess. 4:13-18 Paul was comforting them because they thought the ones who believed in Jesus that had already died would miss Jesus's second coming and would not be resurrected.
Those who are resurrected and those living who will be changed will meet Jesus in the air on His way down to earth, nowhere does it say we are taken or go to heaven. This is the first resurrection in Rev. 19:11-16 and Rev. 20:5-6. There are only two resurrections if Thess. 13-18 is a rapture of the Church to heaven there would be three resurrections, but Scripture says there are only two.
Scripture says only those who are chosen and faithful, those who are worthy to reign with Jesus for a thousand years will be in the first resurrection, Rev. 5:10Rev. 17:14Rev. 20:6 the first resurrection is just before the battle of Armageddon Rev. 19:17-21Rev. 20:1-6.
After a thousand years, the rest of the dead will be resurrected, the second and last, Rev. 20:7-15. Some say the white throne judgment is only for the lost but if we read vs 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Some are found in the Book of Life also these lines up with Dan. 12:2 and Matt. 25:31-46, the white throne (then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory).
The bride is another discussion; Who is the bride? Who are those "Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb"?
Firstly you are right about the no, of resurrections, two of them.
On the other hand in Rev it seems that the saints are resurrected before Jesus starts descenting to earth. In Thess they are ressurrected as Jesus comes to earth and we meet with Him in the air. Also in my previous posts I underlined the different conditions of the world in the rappture and in the 2nd coming. They don't seem to match at all. They are completely different.
Today I remembered what Paul said about the Istaelites at the end. Rom 11:25, "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in." We know that the Israelites will accept Jesus during the great tribulation. If the rapture is the same event as the 2nd coming there seems to be a timing problem, because the verse says after all of the gentiles will be saved.
Last, in your opinion who are the people that are called into the marriage supper of the Lamb?
First, I would like to say Revelation is not in any kind of chronological order, and we agree there are only two resurrections. The rapture, many believe this is just for the Church before Jesus's second coming. By saying this in my understanding is what makes 1 Thess. 4:13-19 look like a different event from the first resurrection at Jesus's second coming. Matt. 24:31Mark 13:271 Cor. 15:51-581 Thess. 4:16-17Rev. 11:15Rev. 19:11-16 At the last trump the second coming of Jesus, all these describe the first resurrection. Rev. 20:6.
There are only two resurrections, and we see the first resurrection at Jesus's second coming at the seventh and last Trump. After the battle, we see those in this first resurrection at the judgment seat of Christ, the thrones set up Rev. 20:4. Jesus and His chosen then set up the kingdom and the thousand years start. The rest saved and lost will not be resurrected until after 1,000 years Rev.20:5 Rev.20 the last verse 27 tells us this is not just for the lost there are those found in the Book of Life.
The Bride and the Marriage Supper, many say the Church is the Bride but nowhere in Scripture is the Church called the Bride. There are analogies of how Jesus loves and treats the Church as a man should his wife. In the first verse of 2 Cor. 11 Paul asked them to bear with his folly this suggests what he was to say is allegorical.
If we look at Matt. 26:29Mark 14:25 Jesus is telling the disciples he will not drink of this fruit of the vine until He drinks it new with you in my Father's kingdom, the keyword is new. The Bride of Christ is the New Jerusalem: Rev 21:9-11 She was arrayed in fine linen, the righteousness of saints, the garments clean and spotless of the saints is what she is arrayed in.
Christians are sons of God, Romans 8:141 John 3:2 we are joint-heirs with Christ Romans 8:17Gal. 3:29 we are the body of Christ 1 Cor. 12:27 we are in the body of His flesh Col. 1:22. We are who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb Rev.19:9. Like Jesus said at the Last Supper He will not drink until all is new. The marriage supper is when there is a new heaven and new earth and the New Jerusalem comes out of heaven down to the new earth and all saints from old to the new are the "Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!"
I am with you on this interpretation. And I don't think that we are truly in the minority in the whole history of Christianity. But in todays American Evangelical churches, especially those that arose in America, the belief in the dispensational pretribulation rapture is more the norm. But there are a vast number of people who believe as we do, that there is not going to be a pretribulation rapture. Thanks for your explanation here. i know many on this particular site do take the viewpoint of the pre-trib rapture.
I had cautiously entered into some discussions on this in the past where you and many others posted their views and Scriptural interpretations as I did. That was a good discussion. But I do not wish to engage in this topic again on this thread. I just want to give you support for posting a view that is unpopular among many who post regularly on here. Blessing to you and to those who don't think like us. We are all one in Christ.
That is my understanding also. I believe that 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 is speaking of the rapture, whereas Revelation Chapter 19 is speaking about the 2nd coming of Christ.
I see this as two separate events (Rapture & 2nd coming). My belief is that we will be at the marriage supper of the lamb during the tribulation, and after the 7-year tribulation is complete, then the Lord will return (2nd coming), and we come back with him.
Revelation 19:14 tells us that the armies which were in heaven followed Him upon white horses (that would be us), clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Clothed in fine linen, white and clean. We see this mentioned in Revelation 19:8 which says, "And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white:"
The word white is the word bright. Clean and white: for fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
So we, as His bride, we will be clothed in white, fine linen. And notice that this is all taking place in heaven. We are there. The tribulation is still taking place on earth while we are at the marriage supper with Christ prior to His 2nd coming.
Something else I notice is that at the rapture, Christ does not come all the way to the earth. We meet Him in the air. But at His 2nd coming, He will physically touch down onto the Mount of Olives.
The whole gospel of the Kingdom of God revolves around the death and resurrection of Christ.
The Old Testament saints and the New Testament saint were all resurrected with Christ ..... first resurrection .....
It all happened 2000 years ago, but we, not yet born when this event happened, are BORN GAIN by the words of GOD.
He tells us what happened.
Now there are TWO types of people, believers .... first resurrection ..... and non believers ..... the second resurrection
The wages of SIN (unbelief) is DEATH.
The GIFT of BELIEVING is eternal LIFE.
At Christ resurrection, all flesh died on the cross with Christ, ONLY Christ arose, the only one with eternal life.
All men arose a New Creation with Christ joint heirs of eternal life, TWO became ONE, a MARRIAGE, flesh of my flesh and bone of my bone, we became the wife of Christ, ONE FLESH.
Those who believe they were made one IN CHRIST, have already died, never to see dead again, they are just harvested ONE by ONE, not collectively, as man teaches.
If you make everything revolve around the death and resurrection of Christ, it becomes easier to understand the prophecies and REVELATION.
Most people don't spend enough time studying Mosses and the prophets.
Remember Jesus told the Pharisees, who knew the Old scriptures inside out, they failed at understanding their meaning.
It is no different today, unless you let the spirit of truth teach you, and that means repenting of the doctrines taught by man, you will have to go through the second death at the second resurrection and judgement.
I agree with Jesse. At the time of this Revelation of Jesus Christ to John (around 90 AD or perhaps a bit earlier), these 7 churches existed in Asia Minor, either planted by Paul, John, or some other apostle. These were actual cities in Asia Minor and the churches had existed there for a few or many decades, depending on when the gospel first reached the people there. Each church believed in Jesus and served the true God, but each church was a bit different from the others AND each Jesus highlighted specific problems in each church as a warning to them (and to us) of the dangers of developing false teachings and allowing sinful living to flourish in ourselves and in our church communities.
John must have known these churches. He may have placed the bishops, pastors over them at one time. He may have visited them to preach. It is known historically that John did appoint some bishops of Asia Minor. I think he appointed Polycarp.
So, John was not some type of hermit off a secluded place for most of his life in Christ. he was active in living out his apostleship until he was arrested for witnessing for Christ and exiled to Patmos, an Agean island.
Christ was speaking to John about these churches for a reason. One reason may have been because John would be released from Patmos and he returned to his apostolic work in Asia Minor until his death in about 95 AD. He most likely returned to these churches to help them get back on track. His Revelation in written form was been distributed among the churches also
Jesus was giving direct help to John in his apostolic work that he would continue after his release from Patmos. he was later martyred. Such a stellar disciple he was. Boiled in oil and killed for Christ's sake after a lifetime of serving the Lord heartily and faithfully. 26 AD - 95 AD into eternity!
This is the first time I've heard anyone say that. I am not sure how this pastor came to that conclusion but these messages were to seven separate churches in Asia.
The Lord is giving messages specifically for these seven. But they are not the only churches in these areas.
It is kind of interesting that if you do a little digging, you will find that each one of these cities is the head of the postal district in that area. So these are the main cities within their districts.
And there are other churches around, but the Lord picked out seven. And each church has its own problems, and each church has its own good points.
But everybody's church today has some of these things in it. In fact, if you put them all together, you would have the complete seven messages to the church before Christ comes back.
Okay, so I have a few questions. First, what was the message? Second, if God gave the message to an angel, what did the angel do with the message? And thirdly, I know that ANGELOS can also mean messenger. So, if I (me personally) am the angel of the church (as you say), why in all of John's writings, the gospel of John, 1, 2, & 3rd John, and Revelation, John never uses the word ANGELOS for human messengers?
There have been several instances over the years where someone will post a question and we as a group give answers that we believe to be true, and we disagree with each other's answers, and then we argue back and forth amongst each other, and the person who posted the original question never joins into the conversation.
Sometimes the questions are controversial questions and I think that sometimes we get baited into the very thing you and I are doing here. I don't see this as being the case with this, as I believe this was an honest question being asked, but I do think it would be nice if the person who posted the question would at least respond to the answers you and I gave, or perhaps join in the discussion.
Jordyn, you and I are just going to have to remain in disagreement on this one. As I said, unless PBC79 has any other questions, or wishes to respond to what we shared, I see no need to continue this. If this is something you feel strongly about, perhaps you can start a new thread?
The original question by PBC79 seemed to be asking if Revelation Chapters 2 & 3 are referring to seven churches, or one church. This person was told that the seven churches of Revelation are all one church. I believe that is incorrect.
Although you and I gave conflicting answers, I stand by my original response to PBC79. I still hold that these were 7 literal churches that were established in those seven locations listed in Revelation Chapters 2 & 3. And each one of these churches were given a specific message.
Now, as far as continuing on in this discussion, I see no purpose in it unless the person who began this thread has more questions. I gave my answer to the original question that was asked, and you gave yours. So, unless PBC79 wishes to enter this discussion, I see no need to continue going back and forth with each other about things unrelated to the question asked.
After the destruction of the second Jewish Temple in A.D. 70, a group of rabbis accompanied Rabbi Akiva up to Jerusalem. When they reached Mount Scopus and the site of the Temple came into view, they tore their garments. When they reached the Temple Mount, they saw a fox dart out from the spot where the Holy of Holies had stood in the Holy Temple. The other rabbis began to weep, but Rabbi Akiva laughed.
"Akiva," they said to him, "you never cease to amaze us. We are crying, and you laugh!"
But Rabbi Akiva asked, "And you, why are you crying?"
The rabbis responded, "What? Shall we not weep? The place about which Scripture states, 'and the stranger who draws close shall die,' has become a den of foxes. Indeed, this is a fulfillment of the verse, 'For Mt. Zion which lies desolate, foxes prowl over it.'" This is exactly why I laugh," Akiva replied. "For just as we have seen the prophecies of Jerusalem's destruction come to pass, so, too, know that the prophecies of her future consolation shall also be fulfilled. I laughed because I remembered the verses, 'Old men and old women will once again sit in the streets of Jerusalem, each with his staff in his hand because of advanced age; and the streets of the city will be filled with boys and girls playing in its streets.' The Holy One, blessed be He, has declared that, just as the first prophecies have been fulfilled, so shall the latter. I am joyous that the first have already come to pass, for the latter shall be fulfilled in the future."
Rabbi Akiva was absolutely right. God is faithful. He is faithful to His promises and to His people. Yet we must remember, as did Rabbi Akiva, that God's faithfulness cuts both ways. We often think of it only in terms of reassurances and blessings. But He also is faithful to carry out His threats and curses. Israel has been the recipient of God's faithfulness in both areas.
Because people throughout history have witnessed the Jewish people's distress, deportation, and even near-destruction, they are tempted to say God has forgotten His ancient people and cast them aside. But nothing could be more misguided.
God has been unswervingly faithful to His covenant. Through Moses, God told the Israelites what would happen if they obeyed Him and what would happen if they disobeyed. Deuteronomy 28 clearly explains the covenant blessings and curses. The fact that God is faithful in following through with His curses actually proves He will be equally as faithful in bringing forth His blessings.
Just as the curses were literal, the blessings are literal. Israel's scattering was literal, and so is Israel's regathering.
In the darkest book of the Bible-Lamentations-the city of Jerusalem and the Solomonic Temple lie in ruins. In the midst of the devastation, the prophet Jeremiah, like Rabbi Akiva, saw a ray of hope: "Though He causes grief, yet He will show compassion according to the multitude of His mercies" (3:32).
Even in times of stern discipline, God has faithfully preserved His people. Have you noticed that every time someone has tried to wipe out the Jewish people, they have ended up with a holiday? Pharaoh tried, and they received Passover. Haman's attempt backfired, and they got Purim. The anger of Antiochus IV in the Intertestamental Period resulted in the Feast of Lights, usually called Hanukkah. And Hitler's hatred led to the May 14, 1948, founding of the modern State of Israel.
At every twist and turn, God has been faithful to Israel. Despite numerous deportations, with the final one lasting for 1,900 years to 70 nations, the Jewish people remained distinct. In the late 19th century, even the Hebrew language was revived and restored.
The formation of modern Israel against all odds-often called the "Miracle on the Mediterranean"-may be the greatest miracle of the 20th century. Wrote Randall Price, an archaeologist and president of World of the Bible Ministries,
Why do I think that those two incidents don't match together if they refer to the same event, the rapture? Anybody wants to answer?
I agree also that these are separate events.
In Revelation 19:9 we see the marriage supper of the Lamb.
In verse 11-16 We the second coming where Christ comes to make war.
If this was the rapture of the saints, who is it that was present at the marriage supper of the Lamb in verse 9 if we hadn't been raptured yet?
In other words, he would have to come get us before we can attend the wedding!
Thanks and God bless you.
Greetings in Christ JESUS
just to remember :
NATION shall rise against NATION ... Will be G7, and G-20, and UN, among other World Entites, DISSOLVED?
Get ready, yes, get ready
Our GOD is in control of History, nothing random happens.
Remember: Our GOD rests of His works in this seventh and last Day, or seventh and last millennium after Adam. By the way, GOD sent JESUS - the Word made flesh( John 1:14), He is the true God, and eternal life, and we know that the Son of GOD came (IN THE FOURTH DAY- John 5:17, take a look, or around 4000 years after Adam, even around 2000 years ago), and hath given us an understanding, that we may know Him that is True, and we are in Him that is True, even in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and Eternal life- 1John 5:19-20.
Our Lord JESUS said: All Power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Our Lord JESUS will exert all His Power from this beginning of this seventh and final millennium to destroy the works of the Devil, to destroy the Devil's WORLD with its all kind of structures: religious, and economic,social,military, among other systems of the satanic organizations and systems.By the way, The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ;and He shall reign for ever and ever- Revelation 11:15-18.Take a look.
By the way, one of the 7 heads of the MAN Beast of sea- Revelation 13:1-10- will be wounded to death; but his deadly wound will be healed (but how? well, the dragon( Revelation 13:11, will give to the MAN Beast of sea his Power, and his Seat (in Jerusalem), and great Authority- Revelation 13:2), and all the world ( Luke 21:24 combined with Revelation 11:2) will wonder after the MAN Beast of sea.
Be careful and get ready
Well, Celebration of the Lamb's marriage? ONLY AFTER THE JUDGMENT OF BABYLON. (see the site of purebibleforum)
Revelation 18:4- Come out of her,my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Get ready
I know I may be in the minority of this but, they do not match if we say Jesus comes for the Church and takes those resurrected and those who are still living who will be changed back up to heaven. Many say the church is the bride and when the Church is raptured to heaven the marriage supper will then be in heaven. In 1 Thess. 4:13-18 Paul was comforting them because they thought the ones who believed in Jesus that had already died would miss Jesus's second coming and would not be resurrected.
Those who are resurrected and those living who will be changed will meet Jesus in the air on His way down to earth, nowhere does it say we are taken or go to heaven. This is the first resurrection in Rev. 19:11-16 and Rev. 20:5-6. There are only two resurrections if Thess. 13-18 is a rapture of the Church to heaven there would be three resurrections, but Scripture says there are only two.
Scripture says only those who are chosen and faithful, those who are worthy to reign with Jesus for a thousand years will be in the first resurrection, Rev. 5:10 Rev. 17:14 Rev. 20:6 the first resurrection is just before the battle of Armageddon Rev. 19:17-21 Rev. 20:1-6.
After a thousand years, the rest of the dead will be resurrected, the second and last, Rev. 20:7-15. Some say the white throne judgment is only for the lost but if we read vs 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Some are found in the Book of Life also these lines up with Dan. 12:2 and Matt. 25:31-46, the white throne (then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory).
The bride is another discussion; Who is the bride? Who are those "Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb"?
God bless,
RLW
Firstly you are right about the no, of resurrections, two of them.
On the other hand in Rev it seems that the saints are resurrected before Jesus starts descenting to earth. In Thess they are ressurrected as Jesus comes to earth and we meet with Him in the air. Also in my previous posts I underlined the different conditions of the world in the rappture and in the 2nd coming. They don't seem to match at all. They are completely different.
Today I remembered what Paul said about the Istaelites at the end. Rom 11:25, "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in." We know that the Israelites will accept Jesus during the great tribulation. If the rapture is the same event as the 2nd coming there seems to be a timing problem, because the verse says after all of the gentiles will be saved.
Last, in your opinion who are the people that are called into the marriage supper of the Lamb?
GBU
Part one.
First, I would like to say Revelation is not in any kind of chronological order, and we agree there are only two resurrections. The rapture, many believe this is just for the Church before Jesus's second coming. By saying this in my understanding is what makes 1 Thess. 4:13-19 look like a different event from the first resurrection at Jesus's second coming. Matt. 24:31 Mark 13:27 1 Cor. 15:51-58 1 Thess. 4:16-17 Rev. 11:15 Rev. 19:11-16 At the last trump the second coming of Jesus, all these describe the first resurrection. Rev. 20:6.
There are only two resurrections, and we see the first resurrection at Jesus's second coming at the seventh and last Trump. After the battle, we see those in this first resurrection at the judgment seat of Christ, the thrones set up Rev. 20:4. Jesus and His chosen then set up the kingdom and the thousand years start. The rest saved and lost will not be resurrected until after 1,000 years Rev.20:5 Rev.20 the last verse 27 tells us this is not just for the lost there are those found in the Book of Life.
See part two.
Part two
The Bride and the Marriage Supper, many say the Church is the Bride but nowhere in Scripture is the Church called the Bride. There are analogies of how Jesus loves and treats the Church as a man should his wife. In the first verse of 2 Cor. 11 Paul asked them to bear with his folly this suggests what he was to say is allegorical.
If we look at Matt. 26:29 Mark 14:25 Jesus is telling the disciples he will not drink of this fruit of the vine until He drinks it new with you in my Father's kingdom, the keyword is new. The Bride of Christ is the New Jerusalem: Rev 21:9-11 She was arrayed in fine linen, the righteousness of saints, the garments clean and spotless of the saints is what she is arrayed in.
Christians are sons of God, Romans 8:14 1 John 3:2 we are joint-heirs with Christ Romans 8:17 Gal. 3:29 we are the body of Christ 1 Cor. 12:27 we are in the body of His flesh Col. 1:22. We are who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb Rev.19:9. Like Jesus said at the Last Supper He will not drink until all is new. The marriage supper is when there is a new heaven and new earth and the New Jerusalem comes out of heaven down to the new earth and all saints from old to the new are the "Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!"
What a glorious site that will be.
This is my understanding different as it may be.
God bless,
RLW
I am with you on this interpretation. And I don't think that we are truly in the minority in the whole history of Christianity. But in todays American Evangelical churches, especially those that arose in America, the belief in the dispensational pretribulation rapture is more the norm. But there are a vast number of people who believe as we do, that there is not going to be a pretribulation rapture. Thanks for your explanation here. i know many on this particular site do take the viewpoint of the pre-trib rapture.
I had cautiously entered into some discussions on this in the past where you and many others posted their views and Scriptural interpretations as I did. That was a good discussion. But I do not wish to engage in this topic again on this thread. I just want to give you support for posting a view that is unpopular among many who post regularly on here. Blessing to you and to those who don't think like us. We are all one in Christ.
That is my understanding also. I believe that 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 is speaking of the rapture, whereas Revelation Chapter 19 is speaking about the 2nd coming of Christ.
I see this as two separate events (Rapture & 2nd coming). My belief is that we will be at the marriage supper of the lamb during the tribulation, and after the 7-year tribulation is complete, then the Lord will return (2nd coming), and we come back with him.
Revelation 19:14 tells us that the armies which were in heaven followed Him upon white horses (that would be us), clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Clothed in fine linen, white and clean. We see this mentioned in Revelation 19:8 which says, "And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white:"
The word white is the word bright. Clean and white: for fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
So we, as His bride, we will be clothed in white, fine linen. And notice that this is all taking place in heaven. We are there. The tribulation is still taking place on earth while we are at the marriage supper with Christ prior to His 2nd coming.
Something else I notice is that at the rapture, Christ does not come all the way to the earth. We meet Him in the air. But at His 2nd coming, He will physically touch down onto the Mount of Olives.
Blessings to you!
Thanks for your comments, this is my understaning as well.
GBU
What if the rapture is a doctrine of man, and not the truth of scripture?
God's word cannot contradict itself.
God Bless YOU!
You asked "What if the rapture is a doctrine of man, and not the truth of scripture? God's word cannot contradict itself."
What makes you think that the rapture is a doctrine of man?
The whole gospel of the Kingdom of God revolves around the death and resurrection of Christ.
The Old Testament saints and the New Testament saint were all resurrected with Christ ..... first resurrection .....
It all happened 2000 years ago, but we, not yet born when this event happened, are BORN GAIN by the words of GOD.
He tells us what happened.
Now there are TWO types of people, believers .... first resurrection ..... and non believers ..... the second resurrection
The wages of SIN (unbelief) is DEATH.
The GIFT of BELIEVING is eternal LIFE.
At Christ resurrection, all flesh died on the cross with Christ, ONLY Christ arose, the only one with eternal life.
All men arose a New Creation with Christ joint heirs of eternal life, TWO became ONE, a MARRIAGE, flesh of my flesh and bone of my bone, we became the wife of Christ, ONE FLESH.
Those who believe they were made one IN CHRIST, have already died, never to see dead again, they are just harvested ONE by ONE, not collectively, as man teaches.
If you make everything revolve around the death and resurrection of Christ, it becomes easier to understand the prophecies and REVELATION.
Most people don't spend enough time studying Mosses and the prophets.
Remember Jesus told the Pharisees, who knew the Old scriptures inside out, they failed at understanding their meaning.
It is no different today, unless you let the spirit of truth teach you, and that means repenting of the doctrines taught by man, you will have to go through the second death at the second resurrection and judgement.
God Bless YOU.
Consider it done. Get well soon brother!
I agree with Jesse. At the time of this Revelation of Jesus Christ to John (around 90 AD or perhaps a bit earlier), these 7 churches existed in Asia Minor, either planted by Paul, John, or some other apostle. These were actual cities in Asia Minor and the churches had existed there for a few or many decades, depending on when the gospel first reached the people there. Each church believed in Jesus and served the true God, but each church was a bit different from the others AND each Jesus highlighted specific problems in each church as a warning to them (and to us) of the dangers of developing false teachings and allowing sinful living to flourish in ourselves and in our church communities.
John must have known these churches. He may have placed the bishops, pastors over them at one time. He may have visited them to preach. It is known historically that John did appoint some bishops of Asia Minor. I think he appointed Polycarp.
So, John was not some type of hermit off a secluded place for most of his life in Christ. he was active in living out his apostleship until he was arrested for witnessing for Christ and exiled to Patmos, an Agean island.
Christ was speaking to John about these churches for a reason. One reason may have been because John would be released from Patmos and he returned to his apostolic work in Asia Minor until his death in about 95 AD. He most likely returned to these churches to help them get back on track. His Revelation in written form was been distributed among the churches also
Jesus was giving direct help to John in his apostolic work that he would continue after his release from Patmos. he was later martyred. Such a stellar disciple he was. Boiled in oil and killed for Christ's sake after a lifetime of serving the Lord heartily and faithfully. 26 AD - 95 AD into eternity!
This is the first time I've heard anyone say that. I am not sure how this pastor came to that conclusion but these messages were to seven separate churches in Asia.
The Lord is giving messages specifically for these seven. But they are not the only churches in these areas.
It is kind of interesting that if you do a little digging, you will find that each one of these cities is the head of the postal district in that area. So these are the main cities within their districts.
And there are other churches around, but the Lord picked out seven. And each church has its own problems, and each church has its own good points.
But everybody's church today has some of these things in it. In fact, if you put them all together, you would have the complete seven messages to the church before Christ comes back.
The message wasn't to the churches, but to the angel of the church.
God Bless YOU!
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you on this one.
May God bless you also brother!
Revelation 2:1 Unto the ANGEL of the church ....write ....
Revelation 2:8 Unto the ANGEL of the church ..... write.....
Revelation 2:12 Unto the ANGEL of the church ..... write .....
Revelation 2:18 Unto the ANGEL of the church ....write .....
Revelation 3:1 Unto the ANGEL of the church ..... write ......
Revelation 3:7 Unto the ANGEL of the church.... write ....
Revelation 3:14 Unto the ANGEL of the church ..... write ......
The word says the message is to the angel of the church, just as relevant for today as then, the word is for ALL AGES.
YOU are the angel (messenger) of the church, and the church is Christ, and YOU and Christ were made ONE flesh at his resurrection.
God Bless YOU!
Okay, so I have a few questions. First, what was the message? Second, if God gave the message to an angel, what did the angel do with the message? And thirdly, I know that ANGELOS can also mean messenger. So, if I (me personally) am the angel of the church (as you say), why in all of John's writings, the gospel of John, 1, 2, & 3rd John, and Revelation, John never uses the word ANGELOS for human messengers?
The message to YOU is everything that is written in his word.
You will either believe the message or not believe the message.
The writers of the NEW Testament never used the words that describes God and God's saints in the Old Testament.
Do you believe the angel of the Lord was Christ.
If so, and you were resurrected with Christ as ONE FLESH, why wouldn't you be an angel.
Most things are symbols, not literal little creatures with with six wings and eyes on every side.
God Bless YOU!
(Part 2):
There have been several instances over the years where someone will post a question and we as a group give answers that we believe to be true, and we disagree with each other's answers, and then we argue back and forth amongst each other, and the person who posted the original question never joins into the conversation.
Sometimes the questions are controversial questions and I think that sometimes we get baited into the very thing you and I are doing here. I don't see this as being the case with this, as I believe this was an honest question being asked, but I do think it would be nice if the person who posted the question would at least respond to the answers you and I gave, or perhaps join in the discussion.
Jordyn, you and I are just going to have to remain in disagreement on this one. As I said, unless PBC79 has any other questions, or wishes to respond to what we shared, I see no need to continue this. If this is something you feel strongly about, perhaps you can start a new thread?
God Bless!!!
I have no problem when parties disagree, it's part of God's plan, he sets brother against brother and sister against sister.
God Bless YOU!
(Part 1):
The original question by PBC79 seemed to be asking if Revelation Chapters 2 & 3 are referring to seven churches, or one church. This person was told that the seven churches of Revelation are all one church. I believe that is incorrect.
Although you and I gave conflicting answers, I stand by my original response to PBC79. I still hold that these were 7 literal churches that were established in those seven locations listed in Revelation Chapters 2 & 3. And each one of these churches were given a specific message.
Now, as far as continuing on in this discussion, I see no purpose in it unless the person who began this thread has more questions. I gave my answer to the original question that was asked, and you gave yours. So, unless PBC79 wishes to enter this discussion, I see no need to continue going back and forth with each other about things unrelated to the question asked.
There is only ONE church, Christ.
Revelation 21:22 And I saw no temple therein, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb, are the temple thereof.
2 Corinthians 6:16 ... ye are the temple of God .....
Matthew 19:6 Wherefore THEY (you and Christ) are no more TWAIN, but ONE flesh....
This happen at Christ's resurrection, you were made a JOINT HEIR, you and Christ arose as ONE flesh, the new creation, the TRUE church.
God Bless YOU!
by Mark Hitchcock
God's Faithfulness to Israel.
Part 1 of 5.
After the destruction of the second Jewish Temple in A.D. 70, a group of rabbis accompanied Rabbi Akiva up to Jerusalem. When they reached Mount Scopus and the site of the Temple came into view, they tore their garments. When they reached the Temple Mount, they saw a fox dart out from the spot where the Holy of Holies had stood in the Holy Temple. The other rabbis began to weep, but Rabbi Akiva laughed.
"Akiva," they said to him, "you never cease to amaze us. We are crying, and you laugh!"
But Rabbi Akiva asked, "And you, why are you crying?"
The rabbis responded, "What? Shall we not weep? The place about which Scripture states, 'and the stranger who draws close shall die,' has become a den of foxes. Indeed, this is a fulfillment of the verse, 'For Mt. Zion which lies desolate, foxes prowl over it.'" This is exactly why I laugh," Akiva replied. "For just as we have seen the prophecies of Jerusalem's destruction come to pass, so, too, know that the prophecies of her future consolation shall also be fulfilled. I laughed because I remembered the verses, 'Old men and old women will once again sit in the streets of Jerusalem, each with his staff in his hand because of advanced age; and the streets of the city will be filled with boys and girls playing in its streets.' The Holy One, blessed be He, has declared that, just as the first prophecies have been fulfilled, so shall the latter. I am joyous that the first have already come to pass, for the latter shall be fulfilled in the future."
For one of many reasons, he's been active and faithful in our lives whether by blessings or chastening.
Another way, The Nation Israel!
God has shown the world he's a God that provides and keeps his promises, That is through the Nation Israel.
What's their future?
God bless.
Part 2 of 5.
Rabbi Akiva was absolutely right. God is faithful. He is faithful to His promises and to His people. Yet we must remember, as did Rabbi Akiva, that God's faithfulness cuts both ways. We often think of it only in terms of reassurances and blessings. But He also is faithful to carry out His threats and curses. Israel has been the recipient of God's faithfulness in both areas.
Because people throughout history have witnessed the Jewish people's distress, deportation, and even near-destruction, they are tempted to say God has forgotten His ancient people and cast them aside. But nothing could be more misguided.
God has been unswervingly faithful to His covenant. Through Moses, God told the Israelites what would happen if they obeyed Him and what would happen if they disobeyed. Deuteronomy 28 clearly explains the covenant blessings and curses. The fact that God is faithful in following through with His curses actually proves He will be equally as faithful in bringing forth His blessings.
Just as the curses were literal, the blessings are literal. Israel's scattering was literal, and so is Israel's regathering.
In the darkest book of the Bible-Lamentations-the city of Jerusalem and the Solomonic Temple lie in ruins. In the midst of the devastation, the prophet Jeremiah, like Rabbi Akiva, saw a ray of hope: "Though He causes grief, yet He will show compassion according to the multitude of His mercies" (3:32).
Part 3 of 5
Even in times of stern discipline, God has faithfully preserved His people. Have you noticed that every time someone has tried to wipe out the Jewish people, they have ended up with a holiday? Pharaoh tried, and they received Passover. Haman's attempt backfired, and they got Purim. The anger of Antiochus IV in the Intertestamental Period resulted in the Feast of Lights, usually called Hanukkah. And Hitler's hatred led to the May 14, 1948, founding of the modern State of Israel.
At every twist and turn, God has been faithful to Israel. Despite numerous deportations, with the final one lasting for 1,900 years to 70 nations, the Jewish people remained distinct. In the late 19th century, even the Hebrew language was revived and restored.
The formation of modern Israel against all odds-often called the "Miracle on the Mediterranean"-may be the greatest miracle of the 20th century. Wrote Randall Price, an archaeologist and president of World of the Bible Ministries,