What you are preaching is not true, but a false interpretation of the Word of GOD. Unfortunately you have drunk from the cup of demons and are scattering the chaff you received from them. No surprise for the Word is GOD, self-executing, and by His Spirit warned His people saying:"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly,that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith,giving heed to seducing spirits,and doctrines of devils;Speaking lies in hypocrisy;having their conscience seared with hot iron-1Ti.4:1-2
Michael was never born from the womb of Mary, Michael was never the Word made flesh as you suggest and are preaching, actually, what you are preaching it is tares invented by the spirit of lie, or rather, invented by the father of lie- John 8:44-45.
By the way, my Lord JESUS Himself sent Michael for this War against the old Serpent, called the Devil and Satan, now, in the time of Apocalypse, also is called of great Dragon- Revelation 12:9.Take a look. In fact, Michael is very very similar to JESUS, but he is not JESUS,quite the opposite,Michael is subordinate/subject/subaltern to JESUS,understand?
By the way, the MAN CHILD- Revelation 12:1-5-is Michael,not JESUS.
Furthermore, we which are alive and remain unto the coming of my Lord JESUS shall not prevent them which are asleep.For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven(in His coming)with a shout,with the voice of the archangel-MICHAEL-,and with the trump of GOD: and the dead in Christ shall rise first(as is written in Daniel 12:1-3):Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them to meet the Lord: and so shall we ever be with the Lord, according to the preaching of Paul Apostle to the Church of Thessalonians. 1 Thessalonians 4. Take a look.
You must to re-study the matter and to stop preaching that satanic lie of the father of lie. In fact, the battle, the War, is against him and his messengers, not against you in person.
You said in your post that according to John Wesley,"Michael here is commonly supposed to mean Christ."So you are working with the supposition that "The early Protestant leaders believed" it be. And you are also believing in their suppositions and false interpretations of the Word of GOD spreading here and elsewhere what they preached according to their suppositiions, and speculations, and conjectures.
You posted that a certain Joo Gill said: "and is no other than Christ the Son of God, an uncreated angel who is 'one' or the first of the chief princes." But What does the Word of GOD say? Hebrews 1:1-8
1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the EXPRESS IMAGE of THE PERSON of GOD the Father, and upholding all things by the word of His power( Matthew 28:18.Take a look), when Had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
4Being made so much better THAN THE ANGELS, as He hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent NAME than they.
5For UNTO WHICH OF THE ANGELS said He(GOD the Father)at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to Him a Father, and He shall be to me a Son?(Yeah, to which of the angels GOD the Father said that?)
6And again,when GOD bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world,He saith, And let all the angels of GOD worship Him.
7And of the angels GOD saith,Who maketh His angels spirits(winds),and His ministers a flame of fire.
8But unto the Son GOD the Father saith:Thy throne,O God,is for ever and ever:a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
JESUS is God,the KING of the kings,and LORD of the lords,understand?Even Michael said to Joshua:I am the captain of the host of the LORD.(Michael is a lord too)
I attached a link to a source but this site blocked it. No external links allowed.
The Protestant church called Seventh Day Adventists teach on this point. Go to: Seventh Day Adventist Church Biblical Research Institute. Search on the Adventist website: is Michael another name for Jesus. Dated February 13, 2012.
The Seventh Day Adventists chose this name because they keep the seventh day sabbath. The Adventists eagerly look forward the soon return of Christ. Additionally, they teach the three angels message from Revelation. "Worship God, Babylon has fallen, come out of her, my people".
Again a very backwards teaching. Genesis 1:26 the words "Let us" and NOT "Let me" plural as God was talking to somebody in heaven and it was not Lucifer. God was talking to his Son as the bible tells us that there was always somebody with God at all times in the old testament. To say that Jesus was God and was one of the angels or whatever funny teachings you received from church is not the bible truth but some perverted doctrine of devils and seducing spirit. God had a Son known as the Holy One in the bible in the old testament. God the Son is just a man made gospel from the pit of hell as God the Son never lived a day on the earth, more or less die for my sins. Can't make the blind to see or lame to walk in the name of God the Son. The Son of God Jesus Christ sure can make the blind to seem death to hear and lame to walk. The Holy One came down not God. God was not Superman to become a human being. Don't know where you get such funny gospel that Jesus was one of the angles or Jesus is God.
Jesus became our Sabbath as he became our rest as we now rest in his words which are spirit and life John 6:63. The Jews could not keep the Sabbath day they always polluted it. The moment you get out of bed you pollute the Sabbath. On the Sabbath day, nobody was to get out of their bed, do cooking, or leave their house. Sabbath day keepers every week pollute and break the Sabbath the moment they get out of bed. Jesus became our Sabbath as prophesied by Isaiah. When you celebrate the Sabbath it is of no avail as Jesus our forerunner is now that rest. The Sabbath day was a day of rest, when you are resting, you are not sinning. Sabbath day keepers today pervert the Sabbath the moment they get out of bed.
Exodus 31:14] Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
[15] Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Isaiah 56:2] Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
Isaiah 11:10] And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
Matthew 11:28] Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
[29] Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
[30] For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
Hebrews 4:8] For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
[9] There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
[10] For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Jesus is our rest as he is the head of the ten commandments for rest sake as he is Lord of the Sabbath.
Mark 2:27] And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
[28] Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
1st Cor 11:[3] But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
Hebrews 10:[1] For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
[3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
[4] For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
The Jews could not keep the Sabbath and yet they claim to be a righteous people just like the Sabbath day keepers of today, the pollute it.
Nehemiah 13:[15] In those days saw I in Judah some treading wine presses on the sabbath, and bringing in sheaves, and lading asses; as also wine, grapes, and figs, and all manner of burdens, which they brought into Jerusalem on the sabbath day: and I testified against them in the day wherein they sold victuals.
[16] There dwelt men of Tyre also therein, which brought fish, and all manner of ware, and sold on the sabbath unto the children of Judah, and in Jerusalem.
[17] Then I contended with the nobles of Judah, and said unto them, What evil thing is this that ye do, and profane the sabbath day?
[18] Did not your fathers thus, and did not our God bring all this evil upon us, and upon this city? yet ye bring more wrath upon Israel by profaning the sabbath.
My Sabbath is everyday. My Jesus is no longer here in the flesh as we know no man after the flesh 2nd Cor 5:16-17.
2nd Cor 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
old things are passed away, Sabbath day old thing.
Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
Jesus had to be born again as he died and was burred. What came out of the grave was not the same thing that went into the grave. Jesus was now a dead man walking full of holes and no blood. Can you live with no blood? Nope, Jesus was eating and talking because of the sprit of God his Father in him a new creature.
Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
The bible says flesh and blood can not enter the kingdom of heaven 1st Cor 15:50. Jesus was now a new creation eating, talking and breathing and yet he had no blood. A born again Jesus this time of the spirit and no longer of Mary.
Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
[11] But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Hebrews 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ...
We should worship God every day. All the time. I agree with you.
But, God gives the directions for how he is to be worshipped. Look what happened to Cain. God told him how to worship, but Cain had his own ideas. He brought a sacrifice other than what God required. Look what happened to Aaron's sons when they brought strange fire. They died. Look what happened when David brought the ark to the city of David. One of the men reached out to stabilize it. He touched the ark and died.
We are not allowed to over ride God. God makes the rules for how and where and when he is to be worshipped. He said the seventh day. Period.
By alll means, go have fellowship on Sunday and on Wednesday nights. And do Bible study's on Tuesday and Thursday. And take a Bible class on Monday. But none of those days are the sabbath day. The sabbath is the seventh day. Saturday.
This point will become a serious issue in the near future when the Papal system requires Sunday worship. Once it is a law, then you will know that it is the "mark" of the beast.
The papal system is the beast of revelation . The church fathers of Protestant era thought so. Look it up. Martin Luther in particular.
"If you hold back your foot on shabbat from pursuing your own interests on my holy day; if you call shabbat a delight, Adonai's holy day, worth honoring; then honor it by not doing your usual things or pursuing your interests or speaking about them. If you do, I will make you to ride on the heights of the land and feed you with the hermit of your ancestor Jacob, for the mouth of Adonai has spoken." Isaiah 58:13-14.
Jesus criticized the Jewish leaders for laying a burden to heavy to be born. Jesus criticized man made doctrine and tradition.
He sabbath is REST from pursuing money. It is rest from life stress. Make dinner for yourself. Have friends over. Discuss God. Listen to music, take a walk, visit someone who is sick. Help your neighbor. Do a good deed.
Christ is the end of the law of righteousness Romans 10:4. You were a righteous Jew if you celebrated the Sabbath day as it was a shadow of things to come. However, nobody can keep the Sabbath day, Jesus came and gave us new laws as the Sabbath day was the law of Moses the law of sin and death. Jesus came with new laws of spirit and life as the law of spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death Romans 8:1-3. The law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did. The Sabbath day could not keep people out of sin. Jesus came and became my Sabbath as everyday is my Sabbath. When you offend one point of the law (Moses law) you are a law braker. The moment you got out of bed last Saturday, you violated the sabbath day.
James 2:[10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
If you want to live the Sabbath day and all those holidays and feast days be my guest to live like a Leviticus Jew by my guest. If you offend or break any of those points you are guilty of the whole law.
Hebrews 7:19] For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
The Apostle Paul said this in Corinthians.
2nd Cor 3:[7] But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
[8] How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
[9] For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
[10] For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
[11] For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
[12] Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
Moses, the Law giver, received the laws straight from God's mouth. They are Gods laws. He does not change his mind. Jesus didn't make new laws. He fulfilled them . Jesus fulfilled all the shadows of a type. All the tabernacle sacrifices pointed to him! After his death the CEREMONIAL laws ceased. Remember? The curtain was torn in the temple from top to bottom.
And in Daniel, the prophecy that Jesus would cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease: Jesus WAS the sacrifice. That is what he fulfilled. Once and for all.
1 john 3:4,-... whoever commits sin transgresses the law, for sin IS the transgression of the law.. 1cor 7:19,circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God... I have to say, according to the bible, they must still mean something, jot, tittle, whatever.. it doesn't save us but they seem rather important.
What law is John talking about? Not the ten commandments but the law the that Jesus came with, the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus Romans 8:1-2. The ten commandments were a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ Jesus Galations 3:24-25. Sin is a violation of the law of the spirit of life as it is the opposite of what Moses carried the law of sin and death. All sin is of the devil period 1st John 3:8. Tge reason why mankind sins and has to sin is because thry are a servant to sin a servant to the devil and not to Jesus Christ the Son of God.
The law of Moses made nothing perfect, it was the brining in of the better hope that did Hebrews 7:9. The law of spirit and life as Jesus'words are spirit and life John 6:63. Churches of all kinds are still bound by the old law, that is why they still celebrate the Sabbath when Jesus is now our rest and not the Sabbath day anymore.
Gal.3[24] Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[25] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster
Rev 14:13] And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
Hebrews 4:8] For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
[9] There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
[10] For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Romans 8:1] There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[2] For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
[3] For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Jesus gave Moses the law on Sinai! Jesus is God. The law is Gods law! Jesus died for that law. He didn't do away with it! If the law was unimportant, then why did he have to die? No. No. The Decalogue is the centerpiece of Gods happy home.
John is talking about the Decalogue. The law written in stone by the finger God. It will NOT change. Like God. No shadow of turning.
The levitical law was written by Moses as dictated by God. This ceremonial law foreshadowed Christ dying on the cross. The entire sanctuary service is a type/ an object lesson. The ancient Jews received the gospel! The ceremonial law was done away when Jesus died and rose. Jesus was the antitype.
I will be happy to pray for you and your wife and home life.
Dear Heavenly Father, Today we lift up Emilia and Frank Joseph before you and asking in Jesus' name for healing, positive growth, and increasing joy in their marriage. Restore to them the satisfaction of a happy marriage full of harmony, peace, and love. Help them to learn from You how to make their married life better, changing what needs to be changed, and accepting what may not undergo change at this time. Help them to wait on You to bring about the changes needed to make their married life fruitful in every way; a life that honors You through both partners and also honors each other. Help them to love one another and put the needs of the other ahead of themselves. Teach them to serve one another tirelessly and be passionate about showing respect, acceptance, gratitude, grace, mercy, and love to one another daily. Amen.
1 Corinthians 10:4 talks about everyone drinking from the same spiritual rock and the Rock was Christ. God made a covenant with His chosen people and delivered them after 400 years of bondage in Egypt; passing them through the Red Sea. Not all Israel is Israel however. ( Romans 9:6-7). Some argue this represents Baptism; holding those under the covenant parents make on behalf of their children at infancy. Whatever the case; when we become church members; we make a vow or covenant as to our service toward other believers. In fact when we first come to Christ; it should be looked at as a Covenant. Christ has fulfilled everything in the finished work on the cross on our behalf; but is only EFFECTIVE if we are truly saved. God makes us willing ( Psalm 110:3) and He gives the gift of repentance. ( 2 Timothy 2:25 and several other references). If we truly are saved we will love God and of course keep His commandments ( John 14:15). This involves obedience toward Christ and Him being Lord Savior AND Master of our lives.
When we make a church vow as members we affirm our faith in Christ; and our commitment to the body of Christ (prayer and fellowship). In Pittsburgh one of the things my pastor did annually was print out our vow as a reminder which I think is a good thing. This naturally encompasses the discipline of rebuking a brother and going through necessary disciplinary measures if personal resolution cannot be accomplished. If leadership is guilty and the congregation doesn't corroborate clearly evident apostasy or sin then we must disfellowship. I went through a specific issue that I won't elaborate on now with an elder after discussion with the Pastor in a previous church; eventually I left; so I've been there. This as with a marriage involves the same principal; we always seek reconciliation but separation may be needed at times. We are all part of covenant fellowship with all true Christians.
Home church or regular church attendance: "Secondary doctrinal issues"
Perhaps one difference between home churches and formal churches is that when one has a disagreement in a home Bible study they just leave. When one is a member of a church it means someone is more likely to be entrenched for a long battle that results in much collateral damage. We should become church members at least accepting the doctrinal statement. I myself had some issues with various reformed churches as to the Post Millennium view; Baptism; etc. The first issue I agreed to disagree with; as to the second when I was in OPC before the local church shut down due to lack of attendance somehow they let me be a member without espousing to their errant view of infant Baptism as I saw it. The secondary eschatological view was also espoused elsewhere (amillennialism in that case). I wasn't at my last church before I moved here long enough to become a member; I probably would have to espouse their view on infant baptism to become a member but I'm not sure.
When I was in the home study one person broke out and joined a Preterist group; thus I had to disfellowship there. Christ clearly has not come back yet (this was full preterist sadly enough). As to eschatology I have stated before that I attended a church that believed as I did on Pre Tribulation rapture and such but didn't really discuss it. I have seen that quite often where doctrines espoused are never brought into a serious discussion. It probably is a good thing as the one time it was discussed in the past where Post Mil was the official belief the Pre Trib was mocked as a concept. We all need to choose our battles carefully.
For me the determining factor was divorce and remarriage; which I am convinced is wrong when a spouse is still alive at least as far as remarriage is concerned. PRC was one of the few places that believes it along with my current local church. I will get into vows and covenants in my next post.
Hello Richard, A common fellowship in the Church of God is built presently by the Lord, at the cross, in love, if we believe. Looking to another day to commune by faith has little substance.
My previous posts today are focused on personal involvement and investment in the church. We can be involved in attending a service every Sunday and perhaps a few other activities but never want to stand in the gap when doctrinal error occurs or disciplinary issues arise. There shouldn't be a mutually exclusive issue when it comes to respecting the elders or pastors and coming to them to expose error; whether intentional or otherwise. In the same token; of course sin should be dealt with properly; which seems to be a rare event today from my observations in regard to church discipline for those obviously living lifestyles of sin. This is part of what elders should be doing in looking after the flock (see 1 Peter 5:1-8). There is at least doctrinal standards in reformed churches today; but my honest assessment is that such activities; along with other duties of such church officials seems to be lacking. I have seen little of prayer with oil for the sick; exhortation; or trying to assess and build up those in regard to spiritual gifts. Again; in the Reformed circles I have seen angst among those who are teaching false doctrines among the congregation (in particular the PRC I attended in Pittsburgh regarding these issues elsewhere in the country). This was a very tight knit congregation and kept a close watch in regard to that subject. Church splits are no rare event today; as controversies abound. How much the average layperson is involved in this is somewhat subjective as to whether they are church members; for instance. Unresolved issues in a local church causing strife is one determining factor that could lead us elsewhere perhaps to a home church environment; at least for a time.
I have seen both extremes; from too much tyrannical control among leadership to to lax an approach. Both can lead to serious issues. My next post will discuss "secondary issues" and considerations in church membership.
Another irony I have seen is that there was a rather strict adherence to the London Baptist confession (1600s) when I was in the home study; yet my current church where I am a member has no regular doctrinal statement it adheres to. It seems from my experience that there is a wild swing from those in Reformed circles; who often read every week from the Westminster confession and those elsewhere who only seem to discuss it when someone wants to be a new church member. Such a doctrinal stance I would expect normally would be lacking in home churches. The advantage of a home church is that people usually know each other pretty well and in depth interactions help to clarify what the consensus is in regard to doctrine. The home study I did attend was run by someone that had a seminary degree; although he didn't want to teach formally in churches due to his strong Calvanistic stance at least in part. There were occasional visits to those in family and acquaintances who preached in local churches; however. Another advantage in being there was discussion of the workplace and others we knew; whether family or friends so that regular prayers for their souls would come up. There is less room there for cliques to develop.
My current church is probably like many others where there is a network; mainly of women who are involved socially and caring for the needs of elderly "shut in" individuals. That is commendable compared with some churches in that regard; since our pastor doesn't need to push people to do things in that regard. There is still; especially among men a sort of rugged individualism. I have found some people if you give a listening ear really open up; but perhaps it takes something such as the fracture of a marriage for people to open up enough to disuss such matters (or in the case of one man his disfunctional family and sins with his kids he is grieving about). We all need to be open to those in need.
Sure, I understand the need to be cautious. That is commendable. If you ever feel like sharing your specific concern, I'd be willing to listen. Maybe I can help clear any misunderstanding.
I will say that they are Protestant, and the church was begun by a group of people who were of other assorted Protestant denominations. They had come together in the mid 1800s on the common point of Christ's return to earth. (His Advent). And, because they worship on the seventh day of the week, Saturday, that's how they acquired the rest of their name.
There is significant danger in believing that dead people are ghosts floating around and aware of what's going on.
1, It leads to consulting the dead ( Demons impersonating our dead relatives) . The Catholics pray to dead saints. Dead people!
2. The Catholic system of purgatory leads people to believe that they can live like the devil and get a second chance in purgatory. And, the Vatican made a fortune getting people to pay to get dead relatives out of purgatory. Huge scam.
3. When Jesus was on the mount of transfiguration, Moses and Elijah were there in their physical bodies. Moses had had a special resurrection. ( the devil argued over his body). Elijah didn't die but was carried away in the chariot.
4. When Jesus told the thief "I tell you today you will be with me in paradise". They didn't use commas in Hebrew. So, it depends where the comma is placed. " I tell you today, you will be with be in paradise". Not " I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."
In these last days, it is nearly impossible to find a church of sound doctrine.
1.Every church believes that when a person dies, their soul continues.No. The Bible clearly teaches that the soul falls asleep until resurrection day. Spiritism, seances, praying to Mary, praying to dead relatives "watching over you" is all doctrine of devils.
2. The sabbath is SATURDAY!
3. Protestant churches are aligning with the pope. They are no longer protesting!
4. There are sneaky things brought into churches, like "spiritual reformation " which sounds great on the face of it, but is actually anti Christ.
Be careful to not be deceived. Question everything. Is it a doctrine of man?
What you are preaching is not true, but a false interpretation of the Word of GOD. Unfortunately you have drunk from the cup of demons and are scattering the chaff you received from them. No surprise for the Word is GOD, self-executing, and by His Spirit warned His people saying:"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly,that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith,giving heed to seducing spirits,and doctrines of devils;Speaking lies in hypocrisy;having their conscience seared with hot iron-1Ti.4:1-2
Michael was never born from the womb of Mary, Michael was never the Word made flesh as you suggest and are preaching, actually, what you are preaching it is tares invented by the spirit of lie, or rather, invented by the father of lie- John 8:44-45.
By the way, my Lord JESUS Himself sent Michael for this War against the old Serpent, called the Devil and Satan, now, in the time of Apocalypse, also is called of great Dragon- Revelation 12:9.Take a look. In fact, Michael is very very similar to JESUS, but he is not JESUS,quite the opposite,Michael is subordinate/subject/subaltern to JESUS,understand?
By the way, the MAN CHILD- Revelation 12:1-5-is Michael,not JESUS.
Furthermore, we which are alive and remain unto the coming of my Lord JESUS shall not prevent them which are asleep.For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven(in His coming)with a shout,with the voice of the archangel-MICHAEL-,and with the trump of GOD: and the dead in Christ shall rise first(as is written in Daniel 12:1-3):Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them to meet the Lord: and so shall we ever be with the Lord, according to the preaching of Paul Apostle to the Church of Thessalonians. 1 Thessalonians 4. Take a look.
You must to re-study the matter and to stop preaching that satanic lie of the father of lie. In fact, the battle, the War, is against him and his messengers, not against you in person.
The Word is GOD,self-executable,understand?
John Gill:"and is no other than Christ the Son of God, an uncreated angel who is 'one' or the first of the chief princes."
The early Protestant leaders believed this.
You said in your post that according to John Wesley,"Michael here is commonly supposed to mean Christ."So you are working with the supposition that "The early Protestant leaders believed" it be. And you are also believing in their suppositions and false interpretations of the Word of GOD spreading here and elsewhere what they preached according to their suppositiions, and speculations, and conjectures.
You posted that a certain Joo Gill said: "and is no other than Christ the Son of God, an uncreated angel who is 'one' or the first of the chief princes." But What does the Word of GOD say? Hebrews 1:1-8
1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the EXPRESS IMAGE of THE PERSON of GOD the Father, and upholding all things by the word of His power( Matthew 28:18.Take a look), when Had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
4Being made so much better THAN THE ANGELS, as He hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent NAME than they.
5For UNTO WHICH OF THE ANGELS said He(GOD the Father)at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to Him a Father, and He shall be to me a Son?(Yeah, to which of the angels GOD the Father said that?)
6And again,when GOD bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world,He saith, And let all the angels of GOD worship Him.
7And of the angels GOD saith,Who maketh His angels spirits(winds),and His ministers a flame of fire.
8But unto the Son GOD the Father saith:Thy throne,O God,is for ever and ever:a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
JESUS is God,the KING of the kings,and LORD of the lords,understand?Even Michael said to Joshua:I am the captain of the host of the LORD.(Michael is a lord too)
The Protestant church called Seventh Day Adventists teach on this point. Go to: Seventh Day Adventist Church Biblical Research Institute. Search on the Adventist website: is Michael another name for Jesus. Dated February 13, 2012.
The Seventh Day Adventists chose this name because they keep the seventh day sabbath. The Adventists eagerly look forward the soon return of Christ. Additionally, they teach the three angels message from Revelation. "Worship God, Babylon has fallen, come out of her, my people".
Habakkuk 3:[3] God came from Teman, -->andand
Exodus 31:14] Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
[15] Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Isaiah 56:2] Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
Isaiah 11:10] And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
Matthew 11:28] Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
[29] Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
[30] For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
Hebrews 4:8] For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
[9] There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
[10] For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Who will you obey? God or man?
Mark 2:27] And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
[28] Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
1st Cor 11:[3] But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
Hebrews 10:[1] For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
[3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
[4] For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
The Jews could not keep the Sabbath and yet they claim to be a righteous people just like the Sabbath day keepers of today, the pollute it.
Nehemiah 13:[15] In those days saw I in Judah some treading wine presses on the sabbath, and bringing in sheaves, and lading asses; as also wine, grapes, and figs, and all manner of burdens, which they brought into Jerusalem on the sabbath day: and I testified against them in the day wherein they sold victuals.
[16] There dwelt men of Tyre also therein, which brought fish, and all manner of ware, and sold on the sabbath unto the children of Judah, and in Jerusalem.
[17] Then I contended with the nobles of Judah, and said unto them, What evil thing is this that ye do, and profane the sabbath day?
[18] Did not your fathers thus, and did not our God bring all this evil upon us, and upon this city? yet ye bring more wrath upon Israel by profaning the sabbath.
2nd Cor 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
old things are passed away, Sabbath day old thing.
Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
Jesus had to be born again as he died and was burred. What came out of the grave was not the same thing that went into the grave. Jesus was now a dead man walking full of holes and no blood. Can you live with no blood? Nope, Jesus was eating and talking because of the sprit of God his Father in him a new creature.
Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
The bible says flesh and blood can not enter the kingdom of heaven 1st Cor 15:50. Jesus was now a new creation eating, talking and breathing and yet he had no blood. A born again Jesus this time of the spirit and no longer of Mary.
Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
[11] But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Hebrews 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ...
But, God gives the directions for how he is to be worshipped. Look what happened to Cain. God told him how to worship, but Cain had his own ideas. He brought a sacrifice other than what God required. Look what happened to Aaron's sons when they brought strange fire. They died. Look what happened when David brought the ark to the city of David. One of the men reached out to stabilize it. He touched the ark and died.
We are not allowed to over ride God. God makes the rules for how and where and when he is to be worshipped. He said the seventh day. Period.
By alll means, go have fellowship on Sunday and on Wednesday nights. And do Bible study's on Tuesday and Thursday. And take a Bible class on Monday. But none of those days are the sabbath day. The sabbath is the seventh day. Saturday.
This point will become a serious issue in the near future when the Papal system requires Sunday worship. Once it is a law, then you will know that it is the "mark" of the beast.
The papal system is the beast of revelation . The church fathers of Protestant era thought so. Look it up. Martin Luther in particular.
The verse you quoted says nothing about discontinuing the sabbath.
Jesus criticized the Jewish leaders for laying a burden to heavy to be born. Jesus criticized man made doctrine and tradition.
He sabbath is REST from pursuing money. It is rest from life stress. Make dinner for yourself. Have friends over. Discuss God. Listen to music, take a walk, visit someone who is sick. Help your neighbor. Do a good deed.
The sabbath is a GIFT!
James 2:[10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
If you want to live the Sabbath day and all those holidays and feast days be my guest to live like a Leviticus Jew by my guest. If you offend or break any of those points you are guilty of the whole law.
Hebrews 7:19] For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
The Apostle Paul said this in Corinthians.
2nd Cor 3:[7] But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
[8] How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
[9] For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
[10] For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
[11] For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
[12] Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
And in Daniel, the prophecy that Jesus would cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease: Jesus WAS the sacrifice. That is what he fulfilled. Once and for all.
The law of Moses made nothing perfect, it was the brining in of the better hope that did Hebrews 7:9. The law of spirit and life as Jesus'words are spirit and life John 6:63. Churches of all kinds are still bound by the old law, that is why they still celebrate the Sabbath when Jesus is now our rest and not the Sabbath day anymore.
Gal.3[24] Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[25] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster
Rev 14:13] And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
Hebrews 4:8] For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
[9] There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
[10] For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Romans 8:1] There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[2] For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
[3] For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
John is talking about the Decalogue. The law written in stone by the finger God. It will NOT change. Like God. No shadow of turning.
The levitical law was written by Moses as dictated by God. This ceremonial law foreshadowed Christ dying on the cross. The entire sanctuary service is a type/ an object lesson. The ancient Jews received the gospel! The ceremonial law was done away when Jesus died and rose. Jesus was the antitype.
I will be happy to pray for you and your wife and home life.
Dear Heavenly Father, Today we lift up Emilia and Frank Joseph before you and asking in Jesus' name for healing, positive growth, and increasing joy in their marriage. Restore to them the satisfaction of a happy marriage full of harmony, peace, and love. Help them to learn from You how to make their married life better, changing what needs to be changed, and accepting what may not undergo change at this time. Help them to wait on You to bring about the changes needed to make their married life fruitful in every way; a life that honors You through both partners and also honors each other. Help them to love one another and put the needs of the other ahead of themselves. Teach them to serve one another tirelessly and be passionate about showing respect, acceptance, gratitude, grace, mercy, and love to one another daily. Amen.
1 Corinthians 10:4 talks about everyone drinking from the same spiritual rock and the Rock was Christ. God made a covenant with His chosen people and delivered them after 400 years of bondage in Egypt; passing them through the Red Sea. Not all Israel is Israel however. ( Romans 9:6-7). Some argue this represents Baptism; holding those under the covenant parents make on behalf of their children at infancy. Whatever the case; when we become church members; we make a vow or covenant as to our service toward other believers. In fact when we first come to Christ; it should be looked at as a Covenant. Christ has fulfilled everything in the finished work on the cross on our behalf; but is only EFFECTIVE if we are truly saved. God makes us willing ( Psalm 110:3) and He gives the gift of repentance. ( 2 Timothy 2:25 and several other references). If we truly are saved we will love God and of course keep His commandments ( John 14:15). This involves obedience toward Christ and Him being Lord Savior AND Master of our lives.
When we make a church vow as members we affirm our faith in Christ; and our commitment to the body of Christ (prayer and fellowship). In Pittsburgh one of the things my pastor did annually was print out our vow as a reminder which I think is a good thing. This naturally encompasses the discipline of rebuking a brother and going through necessary disciplinary measures if personal resolution cannot be accomplished. If leadership is guilty and the congregation doesn't corroborate clearly evident apostasy or sin then we must disfellowship. I went through a specific issue that I won't elaborate on now with an elder after discussion with the Pastor in a previous church; eventually I left; so I've been there. This as with a marriage involves the same principal; we always seek reconciliation but separation may be needed at times. We are all part of covenant fellowship with all true Christians.
Perhaps one difference between home churches and formal churches is that when one has a disagreement in a home Bible study they just leave. When one is a member of a church it means someone is more likely to be entrenched for a long battle that results in much collateral damage. We should become church members at least accepting the doctrinal statement. I myself had some issues with various reformed churches as to the Post Millennium view; Baptism; etc. The first issue I agreed to disagree with; as to the second when I was in OPC before the local church shut down due to lack of attendance somehow they let me be a member without espousing to their errant view of infant Baptism as I saw it. The secondary eschatological view was also espoused elsewhere (amillennialism in that case). I wasn't at my last church before I moved here long enough to become a member; I probably would have to espouse their view on infant baptism to become a member but I'm not sure.
When I was in the home study one person broke out and joined a Preterist group; thus I had to disfellowship there. Christ clearly has not come back yet (this was full preterist sadly enough). As to eschatology I have stated before that I attended a church that believed as I did on Pre Tribulation rapture and such but didn't really discuss it. I have seen that quite often where doctrines espoused are never brought into a serious discussion. It probably is a good thing as the one time it was discussed in the past where Post Mil was the official belief the Pre Trib was mocked as a concept. We all need to choose our battles carefully.
For me the determining factor was divorce and remarriage; which I am convinced is wrong when a spouse is still alive at least as far as remarriage is concerned. PRC was one of the few places that believes it along with my current local church. I will get into vows and covenants in my next post.
An evening meditation.
My previous posts today are focused on personal involvement and investment in the church. We can be involved in attending a service every Sunday and perhaps a few other activities but never want to stand in the gap when doctrinal error occurs or disciplinary issues arise. There shouldn't be a mutually exclusive issue when it comes to respecting the elders or pastors and coming to them to expose error; whether intentional or otherwise. In the same token; of course sin should be dealt with properly; which seems to be a rare event today from my observations in regard to church discipline for those obviously living lifestyles of sin. This is part of what elders should be doing in looking after the flock (see 1 Peter 5:1-8). There is at least doctrinal standards in reformed churches today; but my honest assessment is that such activities; along with other duties of such church officials seems to be lacking. I have seen little of prayer with oil for the sick; exhortation; or trying to assess and build up those in regard to spiritual gifts. Again; in the Reformed circles I have seen angst among those who are teaching false doctrines among the congregation (in particular the PRC I attended in Pittsburgh regarding these issues elsewhere in the country). This was a very tight knit congregation and kept a close watch in regard to that subject. Church splits are no rare event today; as controversies abound. How much the average layperson is involved in this is somewhat subjective as to whether they are church members; for instance. Unresolved issues in a local church causing strife is one determining factor that could lead us elsewhere perhaps to a home church environment; at least for a time.
I have seen both extremes; from too much tyrannical control among leadership to to lax an approach. Both can lead to serious issues. My next post will discuss "secondary issues" and considerations in church membership.
Another irony I have seen is that there was a rather strict adherence to the London Baptist confession (1600s) when I was in the home study; yet my current church where I am a member has no regular doctrinal statement it adheres to. It seems from my experience that there is a wild swing from those in Reformed circles; who often read every week from the Westminster confession and those elsewhere who only seem to discuss it when someone wants to be a new church member. Such a doctrinal stance I would expect normally would be lacking in home churches. The advantage of a home church is that people usually know each other pretty well and in depth interactions help to clarify what the consensus is in regard to doctrine. The home study I did attend was run by someone that had a seminary degree; although he didn't want to teach formally in churches due to his strong Calvanistic stance at least in part. There were occasional visits to those in family and acquaintances who preached in local churches; however. Another advantage in being there was discussion of the workplace and others we knew; whether family or friends so that regular prayers for their souls would come up. There is less room there for cliques to develop.
My current church is probably like many others where there is a network; mainly of women who are involved socially and caring for the needs of elderly "shut in" individuals. That is commendable compared with some churches in that regard; since our pastor doesn't need to push people to do things in that regard. There is still; especially among men a sort of rugged individualism. I have found some people if you give a listening ear really open up; but perhaps it takes something such as the fracture of a marriage for people to open up enough to disuss such matters (or in the case of one man his disfunctional family and sins with his kids he is grieving about). We all need to be open to those in need.
Sure, I understand the need to be cautious. That is commendable. If you ever feel like sharing your specific concern, I'd be willing to listen. Maybe I can help clear any misunderstanding.
I will say that they are Protestant, and the church was begun by a group of people who were of other assorted Protestant denominations. They had come together in the mid 1800s on the common point of Christ's return to earth. (His Advent). And, because they worship on the seventh day of the week, Saturday, that's how they acquired the rest of their name.
Anyway, thanks for reaching out.
1, It leads to consulting the dead ( Demons impersonating our dead relatives) . The Catholics pray to dead saints. Dead people!
2. The Catholic system of purgatory leads people to believe that they can live like the devil and get a second chance in purgatory. And, the Vatican made a fortune getting people to pay to get dead relatives out of purgatory. Huge scam.
3. When Jesus was on the mount of transfiguration, Moses and Elijah were there in their physical bodies. Moses had had a special resurrection. ( the devil argued over his body). Elijah didn't die but was carried away in the chariot.
4. When Jesus told the thief "I tell you today you will be with me in paradise". They didn't use commas in Hebrew. So, it depends where the comma is placed. " I tell you today, you will be with be in paradise". Not " I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."
There's more but I'll stop here.
1.Every church believes that when a person dies, their soul continues.No. The Bible clearly teaches that the soul falls asleep until resurrection day. Spiritism, seances, praying to Mary, praying to dead relatives "watching over you" is all doctrine of devils.
2. The sabbath is SATURDAY!
3. Protestant churches are aligning with the pope. They are no longer protesting!
4. There are sneaky things brought into churches, like "spiritual reformation " which sounds great on the face of it, but is actually anti Christ.
Be careful to not be deceived. Question everything. Is it a doctrine of man?