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  • Shabbat Keeper - In Reply - 4 months ago
    Thank you, Jema!
  • Shabbat Keeper - 4 months ago
    Oh LORD,

    make me hear of your love in the morning,

    make me know the path I should walk,

    teach me to do your will,

    guide me on ground that is level.

    Amen.

    From psalms.
  • Shabbat Keeper - 4 months ago
    Hello all,

    Here is a topic that is sure to get everyone on this forum in an uproar: the flat earth

    Is the earth flat? When all eyes see Jesus return, how can that be unless the earth is flat? Is the Bible a flat earth book? The Tower of Babel was being built into the sky, and God stopped it. Is that because he gave the earth to man, but the heavens belong to him?

    Is NASA run by free masons? Is outer space real? If all the astronauts are free masons, does that mean they were complicit? Did we really go into space? Was Capernicus a Catholic? Is there a conspiracy hiding the truth of our earthly home? Are they trying to hide God from us? God's calendar uses the moon, but the papal system switched all of us to the sun. Why?

    So many questions. So many conspiracies. What the heck is going on? Who can know for sure?

    LORD God, please help us know what is true. Lead us towards you, through the confusion. Amen.
  • GiGi - In Reply - 4 months ago
    Jema, I think that it was changed to reflect account for the remaining days in year, one revolution around the sun takes 365 days and some small remainder. (this is why we have a leap year).. But the lunar year is 28 times 12 is 336. The Israelites needed to add a month into their calendar at some point (every so many years to coincide with the actual number of days it takes to go around the sun. 28 times 13 is 364 days. So a 13 month year still leaves 2 days each year (and some remaining minutes) short of what is actually occurring. Perhaps at one time the orbit of the earth around the sun was actually 364 days (13 lunar months) or 336 days (12 lunar months) but some spectacular event may have happened cosmically to change the distance of the earth from the sun or the shape of the orbit.

    Therefore, the calendar was changed to a solar year to more accurately show the number of days it takes to revolve around the sun in a year's time. If a lunar year was strictly kept then the beginning of "spring" according to the Jewish calendar would come earlier and earlier each year eventually occurring in winter, then in fall, then in summer, and then in actual spring again.

    Does anyone know where it says in Scripture that we are to keep time by the lunar phases or the orbit of the earth around the sun? I am not aware of a verse that explains this or that shows how time is amended every so many years to account for the difference between a lunar year and solar year. If there is not a command of God on this topic anywhere, then it is fine to keep track of months and years by a solar means or by a lunar means. (or to us AD and BC for that matter or go by what the Jews do keeping the year being from the creation of Adam up to present.)
  • Shabbat Keeper - In Reply - 4 months ago
    Hi, GiGi, well if you look in exodus, that's where God explains how to order the calendar. And, God tells them about the new moon and so forth. And, God tells them what the first month of the year will be for them. God's calendar is based on the moon always. Never the sun.

    You know, the pagans worshipped the sun. God separated his worship entirely from all their practices.
  • GiGi - In Reply - 4 months ago
    Cont.

    Perhaps in the beginning the year was 12- 30 day divisions (360) days and perhaps the lunar month was also 30 days each. But a major cataclysmic occurrence like the flood or a meteor strike could have altered the orbit of the earth and moon along with the axis of the earth being tilted.

    I think that this happened at some time in history. But with that being said. Nothing in the New Testament tells us that we are to gauge the yearly calendar by the Jewish method. What God asked of the Israelites in Exodus, and Deuteronomy and Leviticus was specifically for them at that time in history. In the world at that time people groups had their own calendars with their feast days and holy days and pagan celebrations. God wanted the Israelites to have this calendar He instituted so that this people would remain separate and distinct from the pagan peoples around them, celebrating the feasts, ordinances, and holy days He decided for them (which all point to Christ in some way).

    In the Christian era, with Jesus being the completion of the promises, prophecies and fulfillment of all OT Scriptures, a calendar reflecting the life and works of Christ is more appropriate and is not prohibited in the NT writings. Paul says that each of us are to keep feast days, holy days, or Sabbaths according to our conscience or not according to our conscience and that whatever is not of faith is sin. In other words, Paul is saying that these aspects of a calendar year are inconsequential in following Jesus. He is our rule and guide for doctrine and faith.

    Having an accurate calendar system helps the Christian family over the centuries with its consistency, aiding in our celebrating Jesus' life, death and resurrection and in conducting life and business in the world we must work in but not be overtaken by worldly ways that are sinful.

    So, those who want to follow a Hebrew type of calendar do not sin, and those wish to follow a solar year calendar does not sin either.
  • Oseas - In Reply - 4 months ago
    "GiGi"

    How to explain difference of exactly 240 years in the Jewish calendar?

    Based in the Word of GOD,on GOD's six Days of creation and one Day of rest(a total of seven days)plus the Scriptures that teach that one Day is with the Lord as a thousand years,so MANKIND would go through six GOD Days of 1,000 years each(a total of 6,000 years) plus a Millennium of 1,000 years rest(now a total of 7,000 years).

    According biblical Chronology, starting by Genesis 5:

    Adam lived .......................130 yrs and begat Seth

    Seth lived --------------------105 yrsand begatEnosh;

    Enosh lived ........................90yrsand begatKenan;

    Kenanlived..........................70yrsand begatMahalalel;

    Mahalalellived .....................65yrsand begatJared;

    Jaredlived ..........................162yrs and begatEnoch;

    Enochlived ...........................65yrsand begatMethuselah;

    Methuselahlived......................187yrsand begatLamech;

    Lamechlived............................182yrsand begatNoah;

    FromNoahs birthuntilthe Flood.....600 yrs.

    Total years fromAdam tothe Flood=1656 yrs

    Notice that the table above is proved by the Word of GOD,Let us study the times until our days by the Word of GOD-the Word is GOD. See the timetable below:

    SIX PERIODS OF BIBLICAL TIMES ----------------- DURATION

    I - From Adam to the Flood-( Genesis 5)-------------1656 years

    II - From the Flood to Abraham-( Genesis 11&12)----427yrs

    III - From Abraham to Exodus-(Gal.3:17)-------------430 yrs

    IV-From Exodus to king Saul-(1Reis6:1(480-84)-----396 yrs

    V -From Saul to the fall of Jerusalem -----------------508 yrs

    VI -From the fall of Jerusalem to Jesus ---------------587 yrs

    Thus,from Adam to the 1stcoming of Jesus ---------4004yrs

    From Jesus to our days(Christian Calendar)----------2023yrs

    Total from Adam to our days --------------------------6027yrs

    So,we are living in the beginning of the seventh and last millennium, or the turn from the sixth to the seventh and last Day.

    Get ready
  • GiGi - In Reply - 4 months ago
    I do understand that God set out the day for the new year in Exodus 12:2.

    It seems that the Jewish calendar eventually became a solar-lunar one with the knowledge of a true orbit of the earth to be 365 days and some part of a day-about 1/4th. The Jewish nation from the exile in Babylon began to use the Babylonian calendar. Julius Caesar began the Roman calendar in 45 B.C. both of these calendars left many days unaccounted for and a need to add months at intervals. The Julian Calendar was revised to a 364 day year, but then this left open one day and 1/4 each year to be made up. The Gregorian calendar was eventually introduced with a 365 day year with a day added to February every 4th year if this day year could be divided by 400.

    The Gregorian calendar became the international calendar eventually although some people groups still kept their own particular calendars such as the Jews, Chinese, Persians, Hindu, etc.

    Genesis 1:14 says that God put the sun, moon, and stars to give light to the earth and to be used for signs, for seasons, for days, and years. So for me, in the beginning, God declared that all these celestial objects were to be used in creating a calendar that aligns with the equinoxes of the seasons. When science was able to calculate the orbit of the earth more accurately a more accurate calendar year could be set forth. The Gregorian calendar requires only the addition of one day every 4 years instead of weeks and months at the end of the year as the Jewish calendar does.

    I find nothing evil or wrong about using a calendar system that most accurately accounts for the days in a year most closely. The Gregorian calendar is such a calendar and keeps the equinoxes in stable positions in the year more than any other calendar used today. It is not perfect, but it works better than any other calendar at this time;

    cont.
  • Shabbat Keeper - In Reply - 4 months ago
    Hi Jema, I forgot to say, concerning the day and hour of Christ's return, that some have said that it should read, no one will "make known" except God the Father. Other beings,such as the angels, could know, right now, the day and hour. But God the Father will " make known."

    Food for thought.
  • Oseas - In Reply - 4 months ago
    Shabbat Keeper" and all

    In fact, concerning the day of Christ's return, even our Lord JESUS said no man know, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But GOD the Father has given an important and wanderful clue for us to discern not the day, but the moment of this wonderful, ineffable, unspeakable, event of Crist's return, through the prophet Daniel.

    Daniel 12:5-7 and 11-12 say:

    5 I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.

    6And one said to the man clothed in linen,which was upon the waters of the river,How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

    7And I heard the man clothed in linen,which was upon the waters of the river,when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven,and sware by Him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time,times,and and HALF;and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

    11And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away,and the abomination that maketh desolate set up( Matthew 24:15-25.Take a look),there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.(1260 days of the 2nd half of the last week,week 70th, Daniel 9:27,plus a gap of 30 days).But what does the Word of GOD say and rfeveal unto us?It's in Daniel 12:12:

    12Blessed is he that waiteth,and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.Yeah, day 1335, the wonderful, ineffable, unspeakable day, but it is IMPOSSIBLE to know now when will it be in the calendar, except to GOD the Father who is in control of History, and as said JESUS unto His disciples: "It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in His own Power. Note that there will be also a gap of 45 days after 1290 days, then the wonderful, ineffable, unspeakable day 1335 arrives.Then the current world of Devil finish in LITERAL fulfilment of Re.11:15-18.

    Get ready
  • Rainwalker - In Reply - 4 months ago
    Hello, one thing to note is that according to Dan. ch 7 we learn that the "prophetic" timeline consist of each day representing a literal year. 360 day Jewish year actually. As the 70 weeks allows us to understand. It was of course 490 "years"until the Messiah was revealed. These "time prophecies" are actually consistent on this.
  • Shabbat Keeper - In Reply - 4 months ago
    Hi Jema,

    One last comment on time:

    Jesus said nobody knows the day or hour of his return , but only the father in heaven.

    Here is the thing, in those ancient days, it was the father that had the privilege of announcing the wedding!

    So , perhaps Jesus is simply saying that no angel, nor he himself will announce his wedding to the bride ( us, the church). It is the privilege of God our Father!

    It is very exciting. Jesus must know the day and hour because he is God. But, he is waiting for the announcement.
  • Shabbat Keeper - In Reply - 4 months ago
    Hi Jema,

    Have you ever heard the notion that the sun and moon are like our clock? The sun is the minute hand and the moon is the hour hand.

    Also, interesting that the term "in the fullness of time", throughout the Bible indicates that God has his eye on our clock.

    Very interesting stuff.
  • Shabbat Keeper - In Reply - 4 months ago
    Hi Jema, I believe the month's number of days was based on the sighting of the new moon. I would have to read up on it again. I have forgotten.

    The thing is that the Pope changed our calendar from sighting the new moon to whatever it is now.

    The new year always began in the spring with Passover. Secular Israel now has the head of the year at Yom Teruah, the feast of trumpets.

    Really it's all messed up. The feasts had symbolic meaning. The different feasts were important as object lessons. And the foreshadowing of future events.

    It's another huge, huge topic. Super interesting though.

    :)
  • Adam - In Reply - 4 months ago
    Hello sir, you asked a lot of questions here, so I will focus on your first one and your conclusion of "who can know for sure". I assume you believe there's an absolute truth and believe the Bible is true. The words written in the Bible are true. We do have a truth discernment problem in our society today, especially. Much of the news are lies. Some prefer the lies, because truth is inconvenient. I don't know why this subject has any uproar. I think 99.9% of people believe the earth is a globe, because it is.

    The flat earth theory is an easy one to debunk, because of (1) scripture, and (2) God-given logic.

    1. Bible calls the earth a circle. It didn't say it was a pancake or a snow half-globe. God never warned us not to go some places on the earth for fear of falling off?

    2. God-given logic. I've never met someone who believes in a flat earth who has travelled the world. If you fly the same direction you end up back where you started and you started. People have sailed around the world. Ships and planes do this regularly. Seasons: seasons in northern hemisphere are opposite as southern hemisphere. Day/night are also different, consistent with rotation of globe towards sun. Obviously these things prove the earth is a globe, but if someone still isn't convinced, all you have to do is measure shadows. If earth was flat all shadows would be consistent throughout the world. All you have to do is facetime or do a zoom meeting with someone in different parts of the earth and measure shadows while you talk to them. At noon your shadow is different than at dusk and at night, obviously.

    It's also odd how we can look at moon, sun, stars, and planets in space and they're all obviously spherical, but yet assume earth isn't also spherical. Tons of video photos.

    So we already know the truth, but you're asking how can we know for sure as if the truth isn't already known. Praying to know the truth is a good idea in addition to using what God has already provided us. God bless.
  • Shabbat Keeper - In Reply - 4 months ago
    Hi Adam,

    Yes, I agree with you that there will be deception in the last days. It behooves us to question absolutely EVERYTHING.

    I feel too tired to write more. If you are inclined then look up flat earth, Eric Dubay on youtube and also David Weiss DITRH. David Weiss ( Deep Inside The Rabbit Hole) also has a website. This flat earth subject is HUGE and both of these people have answers to difficult questions. Also, they address all those points concerning traveling around the "globe", shadows, seasons, etc. For the record, I think the flat earth concept proves God. I think the Bible is a flat earth book. Let us all parse out the truth for ourselves.

    "We'll know our disinformation program is complete when EVERYTHING the American public believes is false." - William J. Casey, CIA Director (1981) Emphasis mine.
  • Adam - In Reply - 4 months ago
    Thanks, but I don't need to listen to someone's conspiracy theory when I already know the truth that the earth is round. God says in the Bible it's a circle, and I use God-given logic to know the truth. I shared 2 ways to quickly know the truth about the earth, but I know you ignore it. If believing in a flat earth was part of my identity, I guess I'd be too embarrassed to do that simple test too, knowing that it might debunk the belief. The one thing I agree with you on is to question everything. God bless.
  • Tunney on 2 Corinthians 12:14 - 4 months ago
    1 Timothy 2:1-3; 2 Peter 3:9

    Praying for the peace in Jerusalem.

    GOD bless all on this forum.

    November 20, 2023
  • Oseas - In Reply on 2 Corinthians 12:14 - 4 months ago
    "Tunney"

    Without JESUS it is IMPOSSIBLE to exist peace not only in the Jerusalem, but in the nation of Israel as a whole. By the way, the Holy City, where also our Lord was crucified, is now spiritually called Sodom and Egypt. You know that JESUS prophesied the Temple would be destroyed, saying: "There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down"- Matthew 24:2- , and it LITERALLY fulfilled in the year 70AD, and Israel was scattered around the world until 1948, i.e.1878 years of severe punishments and curses in LITERAL fulfilment of Deusteronomy 28:15-68, 53 verses of terrible chastisements-Take a look. The dispersed people of Israel have never had peace in the last two millennia. And NOW? The WORST will come now, even now, from now on, because the Day of Vengeance arrived, understand? 2Thes.1:7-9; combined with Matthew 24:15-25.

    7 ... the Lord JESUS shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, (angels? Luke 20:35-36.Take a look)

    8 In flaming FIRE taking VENGEANCE on them that know not GOD, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord JESUS Christ:

    9 Who shall be PUNISHED with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power;

    Remember: Pilatos asked to the Jews: John 18:39-40

    39 Ye have a custom, that I should release unto you one at the passover: will ye therefore that I release unto you the KING of the JEWS?

    40 Then cried they all again, saying, Not this man, but Barabbas. Now Barabbas was a robber.

    JESUS said: John 5:43-I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if ANOTHER shall come in his own name(an IMPOSTOR, a FALSE MESSIAH), him ye will receive. (This prophecy of our Lord JESUS will LITERALLY be fulfilled in days ahead)

    2 Do ye know that the saints shall Judge the world?

    Re.1:7 Behold,JESUS cometh with clouds( Acts 1:9-11-take a look)and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen.
  • VALMAR - 4 months ago
    Ah! The perpetual discussion on eternal security. Almost as exciting as discussing who the Sons of God were in Gen. 6:2, but I'll save that one for another time. Unfortunately, we live in a time when 'rightly' dividing the Word has become somehow more complicated. I believe the Bible has every answer to all the questions we need to have answered in order to walk circumspectly with the Lord. I'll make it brief, then, that the ability to lose one's salvation rests completely with that individual. God made the way, Christ made the sacrifice and the Holy Spirit provides the ability or power for us to follow Christ daily, unless we choose otherwise. Salvation from God does not negate one's ability to choose between God or something less. The Bible contains those who started well and finished poorly. So poorly they ended up in Hades. Saul, Israel's first king, was one whom God withdrew His spirit from ( 1 Sam. 16:14), Judas Iscariot whom Christ called to follow Him, willingly rejected and betrayed Christ after he witnessed and performed miracles/wonders in His name when sent out by Jesus in pairs ( Mark 6:7-13) and then, Demas, who forsook Paul for the love of the world ( 2 Tim. 4:10). But, finally, God has a word that many overlook in the Bible. It's a short 4-letter word called "blot". It's used in Exodus 32:32-33 where God tells Moses He will blot out the names of those who reject Him from His book and then in Revelation 3:5, Jesus himself declares that He will not blot out the names of those who overcome the trials and sufferings that believers face, but warns those who are not watching and keeping His commands. I know that my flesh nature would love the idea that once I get saved, I have no more worries about anything. Lack of rewards in Heaven will be no big deal because we won't feel shame or regret. You better read Luke 14:27 and Matt. 10:38, no one will wear Heaven's crown until they carry their earthly cross in His service. Thanks for your time.
  • Momsage - In Reply - 4 months ago
    Hi VALMAR: I know that what you are teaching is 100% correct. The pat answer for those who believe in eternal security is that no one really goes back to sin, they were just never born again in the first place. That their profession of salvation was phony. However, I know this is false because of the scriptures, of course, but also from personal experience. My husband and I were living sinful lives with no regard for God (I was raised a Catholic so I had no idea what a personal relationship with Jesus was.) Tim knew but was not interested and we seemed very happy. Finally, through the witness of a fellow employee, Tim started feeling his need for Jesus in his heart and the employee's wife started witnessing to me and Tim and I got truly saved, on the same day, several weeks later. Our whole lives changed drastically. We loved Jesus and through His grace and power we left our sins, we started attending church with our friends that witnessed to us, we bought bibles and loved reading and studying them, we loved everything Godly in our lives. We had such joy in our hearts. What, other then true salvation, could have made us suddenly make these wonderful changes in our lives, if not for true salvation. But after several years we let the cares of the world that came upon us cause us to became discouraged and weary to the point of drifting further and further away from God and eventually we backslide and stop loving and serving Him, then Tim divorced me . I was so devasted. I knew my only answer to be able to go on (I had 3 small children) was to surrender to Jesus and I did. I have been living for Him ever since. I never remarried. Tim continued in sin until, on his deathbed, through the witnessing of his sons and daughter, he accepted Christ and less then a day later he died. I suppose some may find holes in this written testimony but I lived it and I know, and anyone else who truly rightly divides the scriptures will know also. God Bless You
  • VALMAR - In Reply - 4 months ago
    Thanks for your response to my post, Momsage. I was sorry to hear that your marriage ended in divorce. Living for the Lord is a daily challenge and I know the pitfalls of becoming like the prodigal son and wanting to get away and have 'fun' that this world can offer. Or I have also felt the need to start becoming slack in my service to Him. That tends to only snowball into a routine of not studying His Word or praying or assembling together with other believers. It sounds like the Spirit has gotten you back on track, so keep reading, praying and going even if you think it's no use or just the same ole same ole stuff. Remember you have to bring your body and mind into subjection to His service and not your whims. Again, thanks and have a good Thanksgiving with your family. Thanks for your time...
  • Shabbat Keeper - In Reply - 4 months ago
    This is an amazing testimony. Thank you for sharing.
  • VALMAR - In Reply - 4 months ago
    Thanks for your comment to post. Unfortunately, in my response to Chris's post, I forgot to mention the fact that I can also know why God gave us/me His Spirit when I came to Him as a repentant sinner. Because the Spirit is within me to do God the Father's will. The Spirit directs my path, convicts my conscience, and reassures me that when I sin and confess, God forgives and we continue on. He corrects me, humbles me before I get in trouble and is my everyday companion, though sometimes I may not act like He's around. He points me to Jesus always, and Jesus points me to His Father and tells me to keep going and not quit.

    One of my many favorite stories in the Word is where Paul is in Athens at Mar's Hill and preaches to them the fact that God is not far from any of us ( Acts 17:27), He's only a prayer away from the vilest sinner and that was me at one time. Thank you, Shabbat Keeper, for allowing me to correct myself, and blessings to you.
  • Shabbat Keeper - In Reply - 4 months ago
    Valmar, Thank you! Yes and I agree! Such smart words! My heart is uplifted.
  • Chris - In Reply - 4 months ago
    Hello Valmar. Rather than respond with several pages, I would ask this one thing: what was the purpose of God to send His Spirit to indwell those who truly repented & sought to follow Him & His Son Jesus? I note that you stated, "God made the way, Christ made the sacrifice and the Holy Spirit provides the ability or power for us to follow Christ daily, unless we choose otherwise." Do you then understand anything more of the Work of the Holy Spirit other than His enabling & power to follow Christ daily?

    I sense that much of your comment centers around this understanding of the Spirit's Coming & Work, as it bears upon how a life is lived for Christ, the consequences of falling short, of retrieval/renewal, of learning through His Ministry, and of course in the view of the Old Testament, how the Spirit worked in those prior to Jesus' Sacrifice under the Mosaic Covenant. Blessings.
  • VALMAR - In Reply - 4 months ago
    Hello, Chris. Thanks for your inquiry concerning the Holy Spirit and His unique work within the Trinity. I can only know about the Holy Spirit (Spirit) from what the Word tells me, including Jesus Himself. You asked about God's purpose in sending His Spirit to indwell within us. From scripture, especially in the New Testament, it's apparent that He (Spirit) provides spiritual power to heal, rebuke, exhort, encourage, correct, discern, comfort and I'm sure some others. However, even in the Old Testament, prior to the advent of Christ and the Day of Pentecost when the disciples and others were baptized with cloven tongues of fire, we read where David slayed Goliath, Noah built an Ark, Samson slew 1,000 men with an animals jawbone, Daniel faced the lion's den and his 3 confidants a fiery furnace. Let's not forget Abraham and Moses either. I believe the same Spirit was within them also. God won't ask anyone to do anything for Him without giving them the wherewithal to accomplish it. That's where the Spirit comes in and, if we allow Him, can do mighty things for the Kingdom of God. The only requirement is we submit ourselves totally to His purpose... every day. Thanks for your time...
  • Chris - In Reply - 4 months ago
    Page 1.

    Hi Valmar. Thanks for addressing my question & I do agree with you on the incomprehensible Work of the Spirit in giving healing, exhortation, etc. What I was looking for pertains to your subject, viz. a believer's eternal security. And also to a comment you made, "the ability to lose one's salvation rests completely with that individual".

    The way I understand the Scriptures, is that if we have the ability, or power, to lose/relinquish our salvation, then it presents questions not only to the Spirit's Work in saving a lost soul, but also the power we have to over-ride what the Spirit has done in our lives. Clearly, you believe that a saved sinner can either choose to depart Christ or to remain faithful to Him. My question then is: is it in the new spiritual make-up of the one now found 'in Christ' to ever desire to leave the One Who has delivered Him from so great a penalty & given him a new life with peace, joy & hope? Here, I'm not referring to a saved soul who through negligence or appeal of the flesh or Satan, strays & toys with the world. I'm confident if that soul is saved, then the Spirit will not let him go; and Momsage shared an apt testimony of this very work of God in her & her husband.

    So to my question, I believe the more relevant Work of the Holy Spirit in one's life is that: He Convicts man of his sin ( John 16:8-11); He Regenerates, or gives re-birth to the penitent sinner ( John 3:3-7, Titus 3:5, 2 Corinthians 5:17, 1 John 2:29); He Indwells ( 1 Corinthians 6:19, Romans 5:5, John 14:16); He Baptizes ( 1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:5); and He Seals ( 2 Corinthians 1:22, Ephesians 1:13, Ephesians 4:30). I'm sure you're conversant with these Scriptures, showing that salvation & securing is all of God, without any contribution from man. To Page 2.
  • Chris - In Reply - 4 months ago
    Page 2.

    Can man (the believer who is truly saved, having experienced all of the above), then undo what God has done, drawing himself away into perdition through an unholy desire, & without the immediate intervention of the Spirit within him who has loved Him, sealed him & secured him into the family of God? I know some do believe that we can of our own volition do such a thing & they've even given proof, but the Word clearly shows us that God makes no mistakes, yet we do err when we fail to understand that we simply cannot judge another's salvation or how the Spirit is at work in that wayward one's life to draw him back.

    We can never correctly discern a person's salvation before God - we must accept & love all who claim faith in Christ alone, building them up in the faith, & watching out for signs of weakness or departure, but salvation is only of the Lord & He knows His sheep & by their name - not one of his own can stray away for very long. But can even that one sheep decide that he no longer wishes to be under the watchful Eye & Care of the Shepherd or to live amongst that special flock? I believe that God's indwelling & continual ministry of His Spirit in his children will keep them true to Him, even under the greatest pressure, testing or persecution. But "if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his" ( Romans 8:8), should affirm our hearts & keep us confident that not one of His Own shall be lost or even have any desire to depart into the world & sin.
  • VALMAR - In Reply - 4 months ago
    Good evening, Chris. I find it fascinating that people have such a difficult time with thinking their salvation may not be secure. Answer me this, does God change? Does Jesus change? Does the Holy Spirit change? The answer to all those is no, of course not. Then why would God 'change' His requirements for a relationship with Him? He wouldn't. What is the main difference between the Old and New Testaments? The advent of Christ and His sacrifice on the cross for all mankind, including those who lived prior to His earthly life starting in Bethlehem. While believers in the OT went to Paradise, as opposed to Heaven, they were still God's children and were in Paradise until Christ's crucifixion and resurrection set them free (so to speak) to go to Heaven. All that to say this, do you recall anyone speaking of eternal security for the likes of Abraham, Noah, Moses, Rahab, Seth or David? No, you haven't because it didn't exist even though when they died and went to Paradise, they could never lose their relationship with God and be booted over the chasm to Hades.

    So, why all of a sudden with Christ's birth, death, and resurrection, do we suddenly decide that God has provided eternal security for us? If according to Psalms 55:19, 102:27, Daniel 7:14, Malachi 3:6 and Hebrews 1:12, 13:8, God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit do not change, then let's quit convincing ourselves they do. Have a good Thanksgiving and thanks for your time...

    PS OT saints got in the book of Life the 'old-fashioned' way, trust and obedience. It works every time. Amen.


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