Well I do feel that I owe to present my opinion scripturally. I have done it historically so far. About debating, it is true that we all like debating sometimes in order to "push" our beliefs to others and we all occasionally get passionate. So don't worry. Also do not feel obliged to respond.
But not today, I have no free time. Probably tomorrow. Have a blessed day. GBU
Hello Giannis. Hope you're busy day went well. I am sorry if in my discussions you felt like I was debating because I wanted to "push my beliefs on others " because that certainly wasn't my intent. I have decided to continue the discussion with Chris if he wants too. God bless :)
To disregard this sure and steadfast commandment that God intended for our good pleasure is so sad. All of the other commandments are to be obeyed so we will live the holy life God intends for us to live to gain Heaven, but the 4th commandment is for our physical, emotional and spiritual good. It is a gift we try to give back to God and say "no thanks," however, it is also a commandment and God said if we love Him we will obey His commandments because they do not cause us to be burdened. 1 John: 5:3 and Luke 6: 13-14
Nothing in these verses below tells us to replace the Sabbath with the beautiful rest of Jesus. We are steadfastly in His rest as long as we are true believers.
Matthew 11:28-29 "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls."
Acts 2:26 "Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope."
Thessalonians 1:6-7 "And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels."
1 Corinthians 16:2 "Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come." (Paul is just asking the church to gather donations on the first day of each week for when he comes, it doesn't in any way point to them having to be in church to do this.)
Romans 14:5 "And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight."(Question? Does your church only meet on Sunday to fellowship and hear preaching and teaching? This verse is just speaking of believers gathering on a Sunday to fellowship and listen to Paul preach because he had to leave the next day. It doesn't interpret as abolishing their regular worshiping on the Sabbath.)
Genesis: 2:2-3 " Thus the heavens and the earth were finished and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made." Exodus 20:8 "Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy."
"seventh" shebiith: an ordinary number
"rested" sabath: cease, desist, rest
"sanctified, holy qadash consecrate
"sabbath" sabath intermission
These verses speak of the 4th commandment that God gave (not asked) us to obey to honor Him by resting on the seventh day. God saw this need for us, in order to refresh our bodies, minds and souls. He gave us the other nine, also, for our good. The world, unfortunately, has decided to disregard this commandment so there is no sanctified or consecrated day anymore given only to the Lord to worship Him and for ourselves to enjoy. Believers should recognized that God, not only gave this wonderful commandment to us for our good, but He emphasized it by commanding we remember it. However, He knew it would fall along the wayside. He knew believers would excuse away abstaining from labor on the Sabbath by this and that and the other thing. Believers try to use the scripture to excuse themselves from obeying this commandment but it is just as imperative for a believer to believe and obey this 4th commandment as it is for them to believe and obey the other nine. These commandments are of God. God wrote the them on tablets Himself. After that He gave Moses laws, statues and ordinances to help the people further understanding these commandments. These commandments are the foundation of our walk with God. Because the people had added to the Laws of Moses in many foolish ways these are what Jesus rid the world of when He came, but He didn't, in any way, abolish or change God's commandments. When God gave All His 10 commands to the race of Adam it was for always
Christianlady7 Please follow these links and you will find my postings for you. On the website choose discussions, more, discussion by topic and view all. They will be there in order. I look forward to your reply. God Bless :)
I agree with how the Sabbath day has been changed. Have you noticed how when we change things from Elohim's original intent or design..it also loses value. Such as marriage, drinking, gender etc. It's Satan's way..I think for these things to lose value and just diminish.
The Baptist teach that Jesus is our Sabbath rest. Not sure what to think. I understand that the new testament does warn against honoring one day over another, but not sure what to think here. Also ceremonial law was done away with by Jesus..no more need for daily sacrifices. Then there are ones who say we should just choose one day a week and rest and devote that day to Yahweh because no one really knows about the calendars from one area of the country to another, and says may have been different then, sure they weren't named days etc.
Hi Christianlady7. I think I already answered this post but there's more I'd like to say to you. I don't know if you saw my last post that said I was leaving this forum because this is suppose to be a KJB only and they were using false verses from the epistle of Barnabas. I would like to stay, and do discussions with you and answer your questions. I certainly don't know everything but scripture from the KJB will be all I'll be using. I'll talked to you some more later if you want to. God Bless :)
I love you too GiGi. We are sisters in the Lord. It's true I used quotes for my view by people repeating history but not false doctrine from a book that is not in the bible. Yes we could go on and discuss other things but we shouldn't use scripture from sources that were not scantion by the Holy Ghost.
I read a little of Barnabas and he seemed to believe our hope for eternal life was something we are to strive for if we behave ourselves until we die. Anyway I only answered your reply because it didnt seem right not to. I have decided to stay with this forum but only with you and Christianlady7.
Keeping the SABBATH was a commandment of God not a law of the Jews. Talk to you soon. God Bless :)
I am also glad that you are still here with us. And I respect your decision to speak to whoever you wish. But I would also like to tell me which of my writtings annoyed you or whether I have used a hostile or impolite language. Anyway I am sorry if without me realizing it I have made you feel bad. I am glad that you are staying. GBU
Only fair of me to tell you just this. The only thing that upset me was basing your beliefs with support from a false scripture from the book of Barnabas. My quotes were people reporting what people said not using scripture, not from the KJB. I was starting to get a little overwhelmed by all the different people I was doing discussions with anyway, so I need to stick to just Christianlady7 and GiGi. We are brother and sister in the Lord and I love and respect you even though I don't agree with you on the Sabbath. God Bless :)
Funny how so many "Christians" are adamant about the tithes, which were in "the law", but not written by the finger of God. Yet, the 4th commandment, which WAS written by The Almighty God himself, is constantly bombarded with out of context statements to try and prove that it's no longer applicable.
When we stop to gas up our car on the Sabbath or pick up a few needed food items at the store we are expecting that there are others who will break the Sabbath law on Saturday or Sunday to provide these services for us. Is that right? While we are endeavoring to "Keep" the Sabbath, how many people are required to work in order for us to live out the day with electricity, water, sewer services, police officers and fire fighters who work on the Sabbath we keep to provide protection for us and our neighbors at all times. I do not think they are sinning if they work and I do not think that any believer sins if they rest at times other than the Sabbath. We live by the Spirit, not by the letter of the Law as Jesus (who gave the Law) illustrated so well in His Sermon on the Mount in Matthew's Gospel.
Spell check messed up part of my reply that is coming up. It should say Christ and the disciples picking and eating corn on the Sabbath out of need. :)
Hi GiGi. Yes there are some things that may be necessary to do on the Sabbath. Get gas or whatever you need to do before Saturday. If you forget and must get it on the Sabbath then this is an exception because it is a need. Like Christ and His deciples eating
Picking corn on Sabbath out if necessity. Common sense is all that is needed to accomplish this obedience so there is no long list of do's abd don't's. Anyone who works on Saturday if they pray and believe God He will make a way out of it. There are plenty of people who have no regard for the things of God who can do what ever needs done. It is not a sin for true believers to worship and fellowship on Sunday. God has only command us to make one day, the seventh, as a complete day of rest and we can also worship since we don't have worldly distractions. Meals could be take out or prepared on Friday like in a slow cooker so everyone can help themselves etc. My whole point is Christians could do it no problem if they wanted to obey this commandment just like the others. God Bless :)
I thought that I should address several things here. First of all, if we are to look at the Seventh Day Adventists and their teachings of Ellen White it is clear that there are spurious elements there; from her supposedly communicating with her late husband; to the predictions about the Lord's return. This is something I have just begun to investigate; but when you hear how commonplace demonic attacks are in their own pamphlets describing experiences that are always inexorably involved with this lady's teachings as being some sort of proposed solution you know there is a problem.
I wanted to differentiate between that and those such as Messianic Jews who may choose to worship on Saurdays. I have attended meetings in several of these type settings when I lived in Pittsburgh; and have seen how there is a fairly good acceptance of other believers such as myself who worship on Sundays. Nonetheless; there are reminders with events not to serve food that isn't considered Kosher which I suppose is ok not to offend those of the Jewish faith we wish to bring to Christ by not allowing our liberties to dissuade men. In regard to Saturday sabbath; it is clear that the PENALTY is for those who are in Israel who are cut off from God that disobey the Sabbath. In that regard it appears to be uniquely there for the Israelites only; while other laws such as divorce count for all men (as we see from examples with pagans who were told; for instance not to touch Abraham and Issac's wife when they were passed off as sisters; and John the Baptist being martyred for a pagan marrying his brothers wife). We could say the same of course for murder which is something found originally with Cain well before the law was delivered on Sinai.
God may well establish again some of this during the Millennial reign at least with the Temple which will keep people ceremonially clean around glorified saints and Christ after He returns as well as be a reminder of Christ's sacrifice for sin.
Reading your post of one day ago,saying if we are to look at the Seventh Day Adventists and their teachings of Ellen White it is clear that there are spurious elements there.As was prophesied by Daniel, the Judgment shall sit,the Judgment will be given to the saints of the most High;the time came that the saints possess the kingdom.By the way,I must say that I have come across and fought for decades with strong battles and terrible combats against atheists and materialists, anf for my surprise the most of them were/are people who abandoned or stopped attending the Seventh-day Adventist Church.
Why is it that after the preachers/guides/pastors of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to compass sea and land to make proselytes, and after these proselytes attend their services for years,they leave the Adventist Church transformed into atheists,materialists? Unfortunately they made them twofold more the child of hell than themselves.
The earth is infested with betrayers who deny the existence of GOD,there are legions of them spread across the earth with which I have come across and fought for decades with strong battles and terrible combats,mainly through websites.I could quote the website links,I don't do due the rules.
See,the objective is not to condemn any brother or sister here.What does the Word of GOD say? James 5:
19Brethren,if any of you do err from the truth,and one convert him;
20Let him know,that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death,and shall hide a multitude of sins.
1Corinthians 6:
1Dare any of you,having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust,and not before the saints?
2Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the WORLD?and if the WORLD shall be Judged by you(by us),are ye(we)unworthy to Judge the smallest matters?
3Know ye not that we shall Judge angels?(fallen angels of the Churches) how much more things that pertain to this life?
Please, Rainwalker, your disdain for other believers who do not adhere to your version of Christian ethics is on display here in your posts. I would suggest that you instead show love, graciousness, compassion, and forbearance to others who differ from you.
The world's disdain for Christians is enough for us to face. We do not need to be on the receptive end of such treatment fro believers. Exhortation is acceptable, as well as reproof, but sarcastic criticism of others in blanket statements is none of these biblical means of correcting one another in brotherly love mixed with grace and mercy.
While you may have a point about SOME Christians (especially leaders) who take a firm stance concerning tithing, which is not mandated by Paul or the other apostolic writers. These apostles emphasized that giving is voluntary according to the lead of the Holy Spirit. The emphasis on tithing and Sabbath keeping are two items that are not mandated in the writings of the apostles for the church. In the gospels, Jesus was living under the law in order to fulfill it completely for us. It is He who is flawless concerning the Law and the will of God. None of us are so. We are sinners, He is not. So these facts are the reason we are under the Law of Christ, where He has fulfilled all of the Law for us. This does not mean that we are to live without regard to the intent of God's moral commands.
For example, the Law says to not bear false witness against a neighbor (this is in reference to legal matters), but the Spirit of the Law is that we are honest with one another and speak truthfully concerning our neighbor.
The Law says not to commit adultery, but the Spirit of the law is to not think lustfully at all ever, let alone act in a sexually immoral way.
The Law gives very specific instructions that are helpful for us to live together in peace and love, but the Spirit of the Law gives us power to live obediently to the lead of the Holy Spirit in every circumstance. see pt. 2
No problem Momsage, Sweetie is good, so is Honey and Dear and Friend.
Not wanting to get into the topic of whether or not believers are sinners, since I have never met one believer that has not sinned in some way as a believer. In this way, I did speak that I was a sinner because of what Jema had said about the speech towards you during this thread with you. I was concerned that maybe I had sinned against you in the way she mentioned and repent, apologizing to you and to the members on this site. So, if she can show me any words that Giannis or I used that fit the definition of invective, aggressive, or bullying, I would want to know.
As to our conversation here, it is fine to use strong words to make one's point, especially if one's view is a matter of importance to a person. We do not need to be wishy-washy in order to appease others. We should speak honestly, using as precise of words as we can to explain ourselves in written form. That is not easy for everyone to do. Some people are better at writing out their views than others. Our prowess at writing is not what is important, but using the opportunity afforded in this forum to enter into dialogue with others in order to understand one another as well as relate what each of use knows, perceives, and/or feels led to share.
I appreciate your firmness in your view. I appreciate that you are straight-forward. I appreciate that your love for others shows through in your posts. I appreciate you as a sister in Christ. It is good to have a friend like you on this forum. We do not need to agree on every topic, but we both have the Holy Spirit within us to lead us into harmonious fellowship, knowledge of our Lord, Jesus, and the truths of the Scriptures inspired by our great God who has deemed it best to save us.
"Not wanting to get into the topic of whether or not believers are sinners, since I have never met one believer that has not sinned in some way as a believer. In this way, I did speak that I was a sinner because of what Jema had said about the speech towards you during this thread with you. I was concerned that maybe I had sinned against you in the way she mentioned and repent, apologizing to you and to the members on this site. So, if she can show me any words that Giannis or I used that fit the definition of invective, aggressive, or bullying, I would want to know." Honestly, GiGi, I really don't know what you are referring to. I know that you and Giannis have always been very gracious and respectful in you discussions. I don't really remember responding to a post by Jema, which doesn't mean I didn't, but please don't be concerned. As I said, you and Giannis are truly loving members of this forum. As to the topic of sinning/Christians the only thing I will say is that I believe people who believe in this doctrine do not know the difference between their weakness and faults and real sin. God Bless :)
You have just said in prior post that you have never met one believer that has not sinned in some way as a believer. Here's the great problem of those which justifies themselves as keepers of the Sabbath day according to the letter of the Law, for as said James in his universal epistle- James 2:10- , "whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all". What more does the Word of GOD say? Romans 2:12 ->... as many as have sinned in the Law shall be Judged by the Law, therefore, he who sins in the Law becomes guilty of all, then by the Law he will be condemned for sure. Galatians 3:11 - ...no man is justified by the Law in the sight of GOD it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Galatians 5:4 - Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the Law; ye are fallen from grace.(are wretchad)
Galatians 3:8-10
8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that GOD would justify the Gentiles through faith(not by the Law), preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the Law to do them.
Romans 7:6 - But now we are delivered from the Law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Hebrews 4:
12 For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom WE MUST RENDER AN ACCOUNT.
This question leads us into another discussion. One that was recently addressed on this forum. I do not wish to revisit this topic of how one is born again, yet still able to sin, thus is a sinner, though covered by the righteousness of Christ.
Thank you. I guess I'm a bit of a ditz, but besides being upset with the use of false scripture no, I also was getting a little overwhelmed with trying to answer every post which, of course, I didn't have to do but my MILD OTC compelled me to so I needed to make a change and only concentrate on discussions from Christianlady7 and also GiGi which is what I will be doing. I believe the people on this site are my brothers and sisters in the Lord and that love for each other can really be felt here. I apologize if I have offended anyone and, again, thank you for welcoming me back. God Bless :)
Well I do feel that I owe to present my opinion scripturally. I have done it historically so far. About debating, it is true that we all like debating sometimes in order to "push" our beliefs to others and we all occasionally get passionate. So don't worry. Also do not feel obliged to respond.
But not today, I have no free time. Probably tomorrow. Have a blessed day. GBU
Nothing in these verses below tells us to replace the Sabbath with the beautiful rest of Jesus. We are steadfastly in His rest as long as we are true believers.
Matthew 11:28-29 "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls."
Acts 2:26 "Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope."
Thessalonians 1:6-7 "And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels."
1 Corinthians 16:2 "Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come." (Paul is just asking the church to gather donations on the first day of each week for when he comes, it doesn't in any way point to them having to be in church to do this.)
Romans 14:5 "And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight."(Question? Does your church only meet on Sunday to fellowship and hear preaching and teaching? This verse is just speaking of believers gathering on a Sunday to fellowship and listen to Paul preach because he had to leave the next day. It doesn't interpret as abolishing their regular worshiping on the Sabbath.)
Genesis: 2:2-3 " Thus the heavens and the earth were finished and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made." Exodus 20:8 "Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy."
"seventh" shebiith: an ordinary number
"rested" sabath: cease, desist, rest
"sanctified, holy qadash consecrate
"sabbath" sabath intermission
These verses speak of the 4th commandment that God gave (not asked) us to obey to honor Him by resting on the seventh day. God saw this need for us, in order to refresh our bodies, minds and souls. He gave us the other nine, also, for our good. The world, unfortunately, has decided to disregard this commandment so there is no sanctified or consecrated day anymore given only to the Lord to worship Him and for ourselves to enjoy. Believers should recognized that God, not only gave this wonderful commandment to us for our good, but He emphasized it by commanding we remember it. However, He knew it would fall along the wayside. He knew believers would excuse away abstaining from labor on the Sabbath by this and that and the other thing. Believers try to use the scripture to excuse themselves from obeying this commandment but it is just as imperative for a believer to believe and obey this 4th commandment as it is for them to believe and obey the other nine. These commandments are of God. God wrote the them on tablets Himself. After that He gave Moses laws, statues and ordinances to help the people further understanding these commandments. These commandments are the foundation of our walk with God. Because the people had added to the Laws of Moses in many foolish ways these are what Jesus rid the world of when He came, but He didn't, in any way, abolish or change God's commandments. When God gave All His 10 commands to the race of Adam it was for always
The Baptist teach that Jesus is our Sabbath rest. Not sure what to think. I understand that the new testament does warn against honoring one day over another, but not sure what to think here. Also ceremonial law was done away with by Jesus..no more need for daily sacrifices. Then there are ones who say we should just choose one day a week and rest and devote that day to Yahweh because no one really knows about the calendars from one area of the country to another, and says may have been different then, sure they weren't named days etc.
Thoughts,?
I read a little of Barnabas and he seemed to believe our hope for eternal life was something we are to strive for if we behave ourselves until we die. Anyway I only answered your reply because it didnt seem right not to. I have decided to stay with this forum but only with you and Christianlady7.
Keeping the SABBATH was a commandment of God not a law of the Jews. Talk to you soon. God Bless :)
I am also glad that you are still here with us. And I respect your decision to speak to whoever you wish. But I would also like to tell me which of my writtings annoyed you or whether I have used a hostile or impolite language. Anyway I am sorry if without me realizing it I have made you feel bad. I am glad that you are staying. GBU
Did you mean someone else? I do not recall sharing my views on this discussion.
Thanks for catching that error on my part. I hope your day goes wonderfully today.
It's been a while since I have posted anything here so I wasn't sure if maybe it was something I said a while back. Just checking.
You have a wonderful day too, and a great week. Blessings!
I always enjoy your posts and am blessed when we talk here.
When we stop to gas up our car on the Sabbath or pick up a few needed food items at the store we are expecting that there are others who will break the Sabbath law on Saturday or Sunday to provide these services for us. Is that right? While we are endeavoring to "Keep" the Sabbath, how many people are required to work in order for us to live out the day with electricity, water, sewer services, police officers and fire fighters who work on the Sabbath we keep to provide protection for us and our neighbors at all times. I do not think they are sinning if they work and I do not think that any believer sins if they rest at times other than the Sabbath. We live by the Spirit, not by the letter of the Law as Jesus (who gave the Law) illustrated so well in His Sermon on the Mount in Matthew's Gospel.
Some things to think about.
Picking corn on Sabbath out if necessity. Common sense is all that is needed to accomplish this obedience so there is no long list of do's abd don't's. Anyone who works on Saturday if they pray and believe God He will make a way out of it. There are plenty of people who have no regard for the things of God who can do what ever needs done. It is not a sin for true believers to worship and fellowship on Sunday. God has only command us to make one day, the seventh, as a complete day of rest and we can also worship since we don't have worldly distractions. Meals could be take out or prepared on Friday like in a slow cooker so everyone can help themselves etc. My whole point is Christians could do it no problem if they wanted to obey this commandment just like the others. God Bless :)
I wanted to differentiate between that and those such as Messianic Jews who may choose to worship on Saurdays. I have attended meetings in several of these type settings when I lived in Pittsburgh; and have seen how there is a fairly good acceptance of other believers such as myself who worship on Sundays. Nonetheless; there are reminders with events not to serve food that isn't considered Kosher which I suppose is ok not to offend those of the Jewish faith we wish to bring to Christ by not allowing our liberties to dissuade men. In regard to Saturday sabbath; it is clear that the PENALTY is for those who are in Israel who are cut off from God that disobey the Sabbath. In that regard it appears to be uniquely there for the Israelites only; while other laws such as divorce count for all men (as we see from examples with pagans who were told; for instance not to touch Abraham and Issac's wife when they were passed off as sisters; and John the Baptist being martyred for a pagan marrying his brothers wife). We could say the same of course for murder which is something found originally with Cain well before the law was delivered on Sinai.
God may well establish again some of this during the Millennial reign at least with the Temple which will keep people ceremonially clean around glorified saints and Christ after He returns as well as be a reminder of Christ's sacrifice for sin.
Greetings in Christ JESUS
Reading your post of one day ago,saying if we are to look at the Seventh Day Adventists and their teachings of Ellen White it is clear that there are spurious elements there.As was prophesied by Daniel, the Judgment shall sit,the Judgment will be given to the saints of the most High;the time came that the saints possess the kingdom.By the way,I must say that I have come across and fought for decades with strong battles and terrible combats against atheists and materialists, anf for my surprise the most of them were/are people who abandoned or stopped attending the Seventh-day Adventist Church.
Why is it that after the preachers/guides/pastors of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to compass sea and land to make proselytes, and after these proselytes attend their services for years,they leave the Adventist Church transformed into atheists,materialists? Unfortunately they made them twofold more the child of hell than themselves.
The earth is infested with betrayers who deny the existence of GOD,there are legions of them spread across the earth with which I have come across and fought for decades with strong battles and terrible combats,mainly through websites.I could quote the website links,I don't do due the rules.
See,the objective is not to condemn any brother or sister here.What does the Word of GOD say? James 5:
19Brethren,if any of you do err from the truth,and one convert him;
20Let him know,that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death,and shall hide a multitude of sins.
1Corinthians 6:
1Dare any of you,having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust,and not before the saints?
2Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the WORLD?and if the WORLD shall be Judged by you(by us),are ye(we)unworthy to Judge the smallest matters?
3Know ye not that we shall Judge angels?(fallen angels of the Churches) how much more things that pertain to this life?
GOD BLESS
The world's disdain for Christians is enough for us to face. We do not need to be on the receptive end of such treatment fro believers. Exhortation is acceptable, as well as reproof, but sarcastic criticism of others in blanket statements is none of these biblical means of correcting one another in brotherly love mixed with grace and mercy.
While you may have a point about SOME Christians (especially leaders) who take a firm stance concerning tithing, which is not mandated by Paul or the other apostolic writers. These apostles emphasized that giving is voluntary according to the lead of the Holy Spirit. The emphasis on tithing and Sabbath keeping are two items that are not mandated in the writings of the apostles for the church. In the gospels, Jesus was living under the law in order to fulfill it completely for us. It is He who is flawless concerning the Law and the will of God. None of us are so. We are sinners, He is not. So these facts are the reason we are under the Law of Christ, where He has fulfilled all of the Law for us. This does not mean that we are to live without regard to the intent of God's moral commands.
For example, the Law says to not bear false witness against a neighbor (this is in reference to legal matters), but the Spirit of the Law is that we are honest with one another and speak truthfully concerning our neighbor.
The Law says not to commit adultery, but the Spirit of the law is to not think lustfully at all ever, let alone act in a sexually immoral way.
The Law gives very specific instructions that are helpful for us to live together in peace and love, but the Spirit of the Law gives us power to live obediently to the lead of the Holy Spirit in every circumstance. see pt. 2
God Bless :)
Not wanting to get into the topic of whether or not believers are sinners, since I have never met one believer that has not sinned in some way as a believer. In this way, I did speak that I was a sinner because of what Jema had said about the speech towards you during this thread with you. I was concerned that maybe I had sinned against you in the way she mentioned and repent, apologizing to you and to the members on this site. So, if she can show me any words that Giannis or I used that fit the definition of invective, aggressive, or bullying, I would want to know.
As to our conversation here, it is fine to use strong words to make one's point, especially if one's view is a matter of importance to a person. We do not need to be wishy-washy in order to appease others. We should speak honestly, using as precise of words as we can to explain ourselves in written form. That is not easy for everyone to do. Some people are better at writing out their views than others. Our prowess at writing is not what is important, but using the opportunity afforded in this forum to enter into dialogue with others in order to understand one another as well as relate what each of use knows, perceives, and/or feels led to share.
I appreciate your firmness in your view. I appreciate that you are straight-forward. I appreciate that your love for others shows through in your posts. I appreciate you as a sister in Christ. It is good to have a friend like you on this forum. We do not need to agree on every topic, but we both have the Holy Spirit within us to lead us into harmonious fellowship, knowledge of our Lord, Jesus, and the truths of the Scriptures inspired by our great God who has deemed it best to save us.
Greetings in Christ JESUS
You have just said in prior post that you have never met one believer that has not sinned in some way as a believer. Here's the great problem of those which justifies themselves as keepers of the Sabbath day according to the letter of the Law, for as said James in his universal epistle- James 2:10- , "whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all". What more does the Word of GOD say? Romans 2:12 ->... as many as have sinned in the Law shall be Judged by the Law, therefore, he who sins in the Law becomes guilty of all, then by the Law he will be condemned for sure. Galatians 3:11 - ...no man is justified by the Law in the sight of GOD it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Galatians 5:4 - Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the Law; ye are fallen from grace.(are wretchad)
Galatians 3:8-10
8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that GOD would justify the Gentiles through faith(not by the Law), preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the Law to do them.
Romans 7:6 - But now we are delivered from the Law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Hebrews 4:
12 For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom WE MUST RENDER AN ACCOUNT.
This question leads us into another discussion. One that was recently addressed on this forum. I do not wish to revisit this topic of how one is born again, yet still able to sin, thus is a sinner, though covered by the righteousness of Christ.