Loving the Lord of course must always be paramount in our walk with Christ. Obeying Christ out of love could also theoretically be reversed; we can LEARN to love God if we trust that obedience will bring about that intimate fellowship. Knowing our Creator not just knowing about Him allows us to reach out to others in our own church community as well as evangelizing the lost.
The Word once meditated upon should at some point go beyond rote memorization to being able to pull verses to fit a number of situations. That of course is bolstered by initiating the memory of key texts useful for fulfilling the Great Commission. It also has a benefit when a couple verses that have personal importance can be shared as a way of motivating others to study the promises of God applicable to them as well.
As to what we study; I leave it up to the savant to initiate a study in the genealogies of the first 8 chapters of 1 Chronicles. That is; BTW an excellent example of how to use other scriptures to make meaning out of what at first glance appears to be an exhaustive list of myriad individuals who; much like prayer requests often coming up at church involve people we don't know or understand other than what we are told (in that case someone's name). Such is the case with those who are listed and deemed important who we don't know much about except their place in the lineage of God's people (or in the case of the beginning of the Gospel accounts the lineage leading up to Christ). In this example; some names such as David and Abraham are familiar and upon further study we find out how Gentiles like Ruth fit in and how Rahab the harlot also appears. If anything it validates scripture; other religions aren't going to include all the faults and foibles of their heroes if it is a man made text or demonically inspired to appeal to man's good works for salvation.
My next posting will overview different types of scripture to study.
FATHER, help us to draw close to YOU that the devil flee from us. May we seek YOUR kingdom first, and pray faithfully with enlightened eyes and mind to glorify YOU. Bless Jerusalem with the peace of GOD through CHRIST JESUS' gospel.
In everything that we say or do, may we exalt and extol YOU. 1 Corinthians 10: 31-33.
The LORD to shine HIS face on all the brethren and gloriously bless you.
There are egregious errors which false prophets and others can do with incorrect or deliberately nefarious manipulations of the Word of God to suit their own purposes. That is not the focus here.
After the first two postings; it is certainty important to assess before we study anything why we are doing it. As new believers; of course it is often the leadership of a Pastor that initiates our study of scriptures when we are largely ignorant of it's contents (unless atheists that have already studied the Bible as literature respecting it's dominance in history and importance through the centuries). This parenthesis I feel shouldn't be overlooked. As a dumbed down society we are often discouraged from appreciating anything enough to determine even if it may be interesting. It is much like how we don't learn Chinese but the Chinese are mandated to learn English for economic gain; and also to beat the enemy at their own game. In the same logic it helps to study the basic tenents and literature of another religion before attempting to witness to them; not to search for something meaningful for us but to show the person we witness to that we are willing to take the time so that arguments brought up may be refuted by the Bible as well as the logic of the sacred writings they themselves hold up to where often contradictory statments exist. For some; of course the doctrines of demons may have a great pull to drive us away from truth to false gods. Therefore; we must be ready for the "meat" of scripture and be growing in the faith "wise as serpents and innocent as doves" ( Matt. 10:16). The application there shows how Jesus confronted the Pharisees. He not only knew the scriptures well; but their traditions and how they would twist the truth.
In all of this we must be convinced ourselves that the Bible is inerrant and be driven by the Holy Spirit to enter into a commitment and plan for daily reading.
Further insights on studying Scripture tied in with daily devotionals
The strict adherance to reading one passage at a time in a given book of the Bible is that we ignore cross references. My Dake's Bible has over 100,000 references which is quite exhaustive. Of course some connections don't make sense to me. The fact is though that all of scripture is interconnected. It behooves us for witnessing at least to have multiple references particularly with the Gospel accounts to bring home the validity of the text. If we don't have a New Testament connection almost always there is one with the Old Testament; frequently direct quotes from Psalms in particular found in the four Gospels but also elsewhere in scripture.
Proper understanding means context; context context. Isolating a passage is of course myopic for interpretation almost always.
We can put together chapters even multiple ones (again often passages are fairly continuous from one to another and some Psalms basically are a continuation of the same from one chapter to another). Of course having an undestanding of the culture and history is helpful; which we can find out on our own with concordances and such resources as Foxe's "Book of the Martyrs". This is readily available from public resources online with many recent updates. As Protestants; of course we have "Calvin's Institutes" and other writings from the Reformation. Putting things into context with confessional statements are also helpful; and are emphasized frequently in these congregations.
Making scripture relateable to our lives in the 21st Century of course in some degree is necessary; but we must take care not to do undo violence to the clear meanings of scripture; nor ignore the events of the culture at the time of Christ that can be studied to expound upon such meanings (case in point the camel through the eye of the needle). This apparently was a passage with that name rather than a literal camel go through a needle.
The usual approach to this subject is to cite a resource that is available; such as the very well known "Daily Bread" devotions; to convicting ones (Oswald Chambers being my favorite). When undergoing a determination as to use of a particular daily reading we must be diligent to ascertain that the scriptures themselves are being studied in the proper context and the focus isn't on side subjects such as frilly sentiments that deliberately cherry pick for things to put us in a good mood and ignore the weightier scriptures. We should also make a realistic commitment to set apart a certain amount of time daily which of course may vary according to spiritual maturity; and the other things the Lord has in our life that is required of us.
Ultimately; we should learn to be workmen that are approved ( 2 Tim. 2:15) and meditate on the Word day and night ( Joshua 1:8). If it goes into our brain and leaves as soon as we enter into a different task then we haven't allowed it to transform us.
Even if we use devotionals that are generally sound scripturally; there is always an exception that pops up at times; where it appears a statement is being made that is not scripturally in line with what we were taught. We need to be aware and Bereans.
Part of what we must do is allow ourselves not to be held fast to certain things that are neither right or wrong but what we have become accustomed to. This includes verse headings (arbitrarily chosen much of the time to make translations clear in our language); the order of scripture (Job probably being the oldest book or at least as old as Genesis); and not being obsessive on a particular translation (such as KJV only adherents). That being said we must avoid obvious spurious translations and be aware that there are issues with any translation. KJV I would say is better in general as to holding to proper context with Christ's Divinity than some other renditions with a few isolated words in passages.
What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD.
Philippians 3
1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.
2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
17Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
18(For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the ENEMIES of the cross of Christ:
19Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind EARTHLY things.)
20For our conversation is in heaven( Ephesians 1:3); from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
Ephesians 6:11-18
11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God,that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day,and having done all,to stand.
14Stand therefore,having your loins girt about with truth,and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16Above all, taking the shield of faith,wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17And take the helmet of salvation,and the sword of the Spirit,which is the word of God:
18Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit,and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints.
What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Word is from everlasting to everslating, the Word is GOD, self-executing, self-executable. Great mystery.
Revelation 22
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. ( Romans 2:12 - As many as have sinned without Law(the Gentiles) shall also PERISH without Law: and as many as have sinned in the Law(the Jews) shall be Judged by the Law;)
15 Without are dogs(dogs? Isaiah 56:10-11.Take a look), and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
But the fearful(the COWARDS), and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and ALL LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
The Word is GOD, self-executing, self-executable, understand?
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be(combined with Daniel 12:1-3 and Revelation 12:7-12).
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved( Romans 9:28): but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ ( John 5:43-47), or there; BELIEVE IT NOT.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets( Isaiah 9:15-16 combined with Revelation 12:3-4), and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. - 25 Behold, I have told you before.
The first recording of the teaching of the "rapture" was by Ephraem the Syrian in his most recently found and translation book entitled "Antichrist and the End of the World" in 373AD.
God is a consuming fire and it denotes an aspect of His holiness, which is different from what we have here. "And, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.".(Ex.3:2-4). *There was a voice from its midst calling his attention. Naturally the Spirit presents Moses as the double for his Son to which we have a book-end in the transfiguration of Jesus again with a mountain in the backdrop. (St. Matt. 17:1-9).
In both cases we are looking at the glory of God and the tree refers to the tree of righteousness in terms of the tree of life. In the other the glory of spiritual body and the holy mount is another reference to the Son. Thus we have the glory in terms of the Father Son relationship.
Second point to remember is the glory of the Word and Moses with Elijah are served as double for the Son. (See under L-logos). (Ex.3:1-4).
God set up an encounter with Moses and his scholarly turn of mind turned back as foreknown. "And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I".
Spirit of Christ represents the glory which did not consume the tree which foreshadows tree of Life or of righteousness. The voice of the Lord has sent forth the word (Is.55:11). It also augurs the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. (See under M-parallelism)
* Explanation
Compare "And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine."(Re.6:6) The Spirit speaks on a non-verbal mode. While the four beast are continually praising God,holy,holy, holy' they keep their role as MC. They represent Glory of creation and Man as the steward. With each rider they alternate correspondingly. "And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see."(v.7)
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
GOD to shine HIS face gloriously on all who love and look forward to HIS coming!
Acts 20:7 makes clear that gathering of the saints occurred on the first day of the week to bolster the collection made according to 1 Corinthians 16:2. The prescident is really from the fact that Christ fulfilled Pentacost which was the 8th day of the week (or Sunday) in the O.T. times was celebrated 50 days after the Passover.
Since we are not to have certain days to be held above others as Romans 14:5-6 indicates; we have no right to dictate either Saturday or Sunday for worship as I see it. Again; the Old Testament command was for Israel specifically as anyone in the land who disrespected the Sabbath was severely punished (see Deuteronomy 5:14). Other laws in the Old Testament such as marriage were clearly upheld even with pagan societies (as we see with the case of John the Baptist when he was imprisoned for contesting with the marriage status of a secular leader married to his brother's wife). Murder was evident with Cain well before the law came out. The fact is that Saturday worship can no longer be as it was without the sacrifices and other ordinances of the O.T. times which have been gone since the temple was destroyed in 70 AD. Christ is our Passover now ( 1 Corinthians 5:7) and the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath ( Matthew 12:8).
We also need to consider what Paul stated to those who were coming from pagan societies. He said in Acts 15:29 to avoid eating blood; or strangled animals (often done in pagan rituals) as well as sexual immorality. If Saturday worship was required you would expect something would be mentioned as all other things in the Commandments which are throughout the New Testament in the Gospels and Epistles.
There are further concerns with Adventist doctrines and Ellen White which I am not going to get into detail here; but this often is an added reason for this and other issues of contention. I agree that the edict of Milan enforcing Sunday worship is wrong also.
I agree with what you have said some things have been used for power and control, the day people go to a church is for their conscience and should not be a division. We see in Acts they were meeting every day of the week. But if I may point out a few things about the eighth day, not to debate but things you may want to study. The eighth day appears in various contexts in the Bible but to my understanding never as a day of the week, there are only seven days of the week.
God told Abraham that male children should be circumcised on the eighth day after their birth. We know now medically on the eighth day after birth, vitamin K in the body is at its highest level on the eighth day, and it is pivotal in blood clotting.
It comes up again with the Feast of Tabernacles on the first day and the eighth day was a holy convocation with no work outside of preparing food could be done, unlike the Passover where the first day and the seventh day were a holy convocation.
The eighth day was used in some sacrifices where it was done on the eighth day after the sin, some in the past have referred to the Lord's Day as the eighth day, referring to a new creation and some say it will be the final day of judgment, but I do not know much about that.
Pentecost, also known as the Feast of Weeks, you count seven Sabbaths after Passover, and it will be the first day after the seventh Sabbath. That makes it the 50th which is the meaning of pentekoste/Pentecost on the first day of the week after 49 days/seven Sabbaths.
They would count each day, this is the first day, this is the second day until the 50th day the second harvest would be presented to God and said it was the same day God gave the law to Moses on Mount Sinai. and the day of the giving of the Holy Spirit, the second harvest.
I hope you don't mind Richard and are not offended; I read and enjoy your posts and hope your health is good.
Matthew Ch 18 V 1-7 , Mark Ch 9 V 33-42 . Do we believe that Jesus is speaking about physical children ? Or about our brothers and sisters in Christ ? Thy Kingdom Come .
1Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2But we are sure that the Judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the Judgment of GOD?
4Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of GOD leadeth thee to repentance?
5But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the Day of Wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of GOD;
6Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, ETERNAL LIFE:
8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the Truth (GOD IS TRUTH), but obey unrighteousness, INDIGNATION and WRATH,
9TRIBULATION and ANGUISH, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11For there is no respect of persons with GOD.
12For as many as have sinned without law (THE GENTILES) shall also PERISH WITHOUT LAW: and as many as have sinned in the LAW shall be JUDGED by the LAW;
13(For not the hearers of the law are just before GOD,but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14For when the Gentiles(believers),WHICH HAVE NOT THE LAW, do BY NATURE the things contained in the law, these, HAVING NOT THE LAW, are a law unto themselves:
15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts,their conscience also bearing witness,and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another)
16In the Day when GOD shall Judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel
The theory or doctrine of the Law was invented and was sowed by those which interpreted the Law from a human perspective, in fact a stumbling block- Genesis 3:1, not from GOD's perspective- Matthew 16:23.
JESUS said: John 7:38-He that believes on me,as the Scripture has said,out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Thus, about Sababath,for the understanding of all of us here,I would ask for you: Do you believe in the Word made flesh,Lord JESUS? You know that The Word is GOD,right?The Word made flesh-Lord JESUS-,He Himself preached,saying:Mat.11:17-All the prophets and the Law prophesied until John,period.Therefore,GOD Himself established the Law to last 1500 years,from Moses until JESUS,no more,no more than this.
See,JESUS was not abolishing the Law His Father gave to Moses,it's evident: JESUS and the Father are One,although be two distincts Persons- Hebrews 1:3 & 8-, so,in fact,JESUS was only clarifying the period of validity of the Law given to Moses by His Father. GOD the Father had established The Law by His own power, the period of validity or prevalence of the Law lasted from Moses until JESUS specifically, understand?And JESUS only preached what GOD commanded Him to say to the people.JESUS said:Jo.12:49-I have not spoken of myself;but the Father which sent me,He gave me a commandment,what I should say,and what I should speak.
That said, keeping the Sabbath day over time after grace came, i.e.after JESUS came,these people do not do this by the Spirit of Christ,but by the letter written in the stone,according OT,the letter kills,and also they keep Sabbath day according to the calendar created and developed by devilish/satanic worshipers of the Beast of sea-Revevelation 13:1-10.
The true followers of my Lord JESUS do not fight against the Law of GOD given to Moses,but against seducing spirits,and doctrines of devils,speaking lies in hypocrisy;having their conscience seared with a hot iron.
"and if the root be holy, so are the branches."(Ro.11:16b)
I see in this forum lot of arguments regarding the Sabbath, and I wonder why are we splitting hairs while we have come to the ends of the world,?- and there is some mighty shaking that is about to set off. The Jews could not enter the rest God promised them since observance of the day was good enough for them. Not live therein to His praise and glory.
God blessed man on the sixth day and sanctified it since his calling and gifts are irrevocable. What stopped them from entering into God's rest but disbelief? "Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come."(1 Co.10:11-13) As His mercies are new everyday what prevents our churches from entering into the rest? Culture wars of the ungodly are very much within. How the church historically is grafted to Rome is unholy. In the Book of Daniel it is called miry clay trying to fit with the iron of pagan world. No wonder dialogue is never about settling the spiritual significance of the day but about the letter which kills. It is thus literal reading of the Holy writ has created divisions. If the root be unholy, what about her branches, the Reformation of Luther Calvin, Charismatic movements but a snake-pit to breed controversies? When God shakes the world as it shall happen before long and after the dust clears we shall see the word of God once again shaping a world the pure speech shall be found."For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent."(Zep.3:9)
"For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles," and St Paul cites grafting in the context of the early church that is being built on the foundation of Christ. The analogy of an olive tree we have in the epistle (Ro.11:24) where reconciling the world was a wish left unfulfilled. What hindered the kingdom building?
The Spirit introduces this verse "And if the root be holy, so are the branches."(Ro.11:16b)
How the church historically is grafted to Rome is unholy. In the Book of Daniel it is called miry clay and heresies are its natural world. So who deceived the builders so instead of the doctrine of Christ we are left with the supremacy of Pope and the Church of Rome as the Mother Church? 'If the root be holy' tells it all.
No wonder we have a tree not planted by God but by man. It is not 'I am the true Vine and ye are the branches '
"Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee."(11:18) How long shall a believer let carried from truth?
Hi Robert, I pray that your treatment did indeed go well today. I am sorry that cancer is attacking your body. I will be praying for you when I pray for those I know fighting against cancer. Keep us posted, please.
A question we should ask ourselves; Do we study it with a confirmation bias? I know I have in the past and I must fight it every time I open the Bible. It is part of our subconscious mind; confirmation bias is when we study the Bible, we look for verses to confirm our existing beliefs, without even knowing it we ignore any Bible verses that conflict with what we believe.
Our existing beliefs are deeply entrenched in our subconscious mind, and our subconscious mind blocks the true meaning unless we accept that we may be wrong and in prayer make a sincere effort to come to the Scriptures with an open mind as we know nothing, praying for the truth with open ears, that we may hear.
Like stories we have heard from childhood, only two, a male and a female of each animal and bird went into the ark with Noah, or the wise men went to the manger when Jesus was a baby. Is that the truth? We must not automatically defend our beliefs without ever really questioning them, if not, the truth becomes harder to find.
1 John 4:1, we are told to test the spirits and many other Scriptures tell us to be aware of false prophets, and false teachers, 2 Corinthians 11:13-15. It is easy to start with a doctrine, or something we have been taught, or what we believe to find Scripture that will confirm it, but is that the true meaning that God inspired the writer to write?
I read and study the KJV, but we must be honest it is a translation and if something feels wrong in our heart, we must not ignore it. Whatever version we have we must trust it is the word of God and His Spirit will give us the understanding of it and shine light on the truth, not from our mind.
We can study in two ways, exegesis, considering the context, and God's intent, and open to the truth given to us through the Holy Spirit, or eisegesis by reading into it with one's own presuppositions, ideas, or the traditions of man.
Re.12:10-17KJV 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven (heaven?Eph.1:3.Take a look), Now is come salvation, and strength,and the Kingdom of our GOD,and the power of His Christ:for the accuser of our brethren is cast down,which accused them before our GOD day and night.
11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb,and by the word of their TESTIMONY;and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12Therefore rejoice,ye heavens(heavenly places in Christ JESUS-i.e. the celestial environments of the Old and New Testaments),and ye that dwell in them-the believers-.Woe to the inhabiters of the earth(Israel)and of the sea!(sea/waters=peoples,and NATIONS,and multitudes of all tongues-Gentile peoples-which were deceived by that old serpent that deceives the whole world)for the Devil is come down unto you,having great wrath,because he knows that he has but a short time.13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth(from the heaven- Isaiah 14:12-15),he persecuted the woman...
14And to the woman were given TWO WINGS of a great eagle(the Old Testament and New Testament-two witnesses of GOD- Revelation 11:3-4.Take a kook),that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place,where she is nourished(by the Old and New Testaments-the Word of GOD,the Scriptures)for a time,and times, and half a time,from the face of the serpent.
15And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman(be careful,don't drink of that water),that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16And the earth(144K of Israel- Revelation 7:1-10 and 14:1-5.Take a look)helped the woman(the Lord's Church- John 10:15-16),and the earth opened her mouth,and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman,and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. -The testimony of Christ is the Spirit of prophecy-Re.19:10 combined with Ro.8:9-11.GET READY
"The primitive (my emphasis) Christians did keep the Sabbath of the Jews before the Christians for a long time together, did keep their convocations upon the Sabbath in which some portions of the law were read and this continued till the time of the Laodician Council." The whole Works of Jeremy Taylor, Vol. IX p416 (Historical poof the church worshiped on Saturday until Constantine and the Catholic Church made it mandatory to worship on Sunday.)
I know the world has made it very hard for true believers to honor the 4th commandment. The other nine are getting that way too, but does that excuse us from obeying them? Again how do we justify ignoring the 4th commandment and not the other nine? Jesus' rest is a spiritual rest, the commandment is a physical, mental and spiritual rest. One doesn't replace the other. No scripture says that. There's no wrong in worshiping on Sunday and relaxing but the commandment was for the seventh day; Saturday so it must be done on that day also if we are to be obedient to what God wants us to do. You say I'm being legalistic? Well, I'm not going to worship another God, or take God's name in vain, or build idols to worship, or to not honor my parents, or to murder, or lie (not even little white ones) or to steal or to be jealous, is that being legalistic? If so then I love being legalistic and obeying God's commandments and that is why I worship and rest on Saturday. Each commandment is clear including the 4th. It is so simple, however, we've let the world command us to what day we worship and rest. However, even that has pretty well fallen along the wayside. Our disregard for resting on the sabbath has brought us to a place where we disregard ceasing our labor in any way that resembles what God commanded us to do even on Sundays and the world is suffering because of it
"The PRIMITIVE (my emphasis) Christians did keep the Sabbath of the Jews before the Christians for a long time together, did keep their convocations upon the Sabbath in which some portions of the law were read and this continued till the time of the Laodician Council." The whole Works of Jeremy Taylor, Vol. IX p416 (Historical poof the church worshiped on Saturday until
Constantine and the Catholic Church made it mandatory to worship on Sunday.)
I know the world has made it very hard for true believers to honor the 4th commandment. The other nine are getting that way too, but does that excuse us from obeying them? Again how do we justify ignoring the 4th commandment and not the other nine? Jesus' rest is a spiritual rest, the commandment is a physical, mental and spiritual rest. One doesn't replace the other. No scripture says that. So worship and relax ,on Sunday but the commandment was for the seventh day; Saturday so it must be done on that day if we are to be obedient to what God wants us to do. You say I'm being legalistic? Well, I'm not going to worship another God, or take God's name in vain, or build idols to worship, or to not honor my parents, or to murder, or lie (not even little white ones) or to steal or to be jealous either, is that being legalistic? If so then I love being legalistic and obeying God's commandments and that is why I worship and rest on Saturday. Each commandment is clear including the 4th. It is so simple, however, we've let the world command us to what day we worship and rest. However, even that has pretty well fallen along the wayside. Our disregard for resting on the sabbath has brought us to a place where we disregard ceasing our labor in any way that resembles what God commanded us to do even on Sundays and the world is suffering because of it.
I've read every verse in the NT KJV bible that uses the word rest. I do not understand how any of these verses, standing alone, or used with others, presents an understanding that the rest of Jesus changes the Sabbath to Sunday including the two above. It WAS the Laodicean Council of 324 AD with the support and compliance of the Catholic Church that abolished the sabbath and replaced it with Sunday under penalty of being cursed or excommunicated if not adhered to.
SEE BELOW
"Constantine published the Edict of Milan, granting freedom of religion in the empire and establishing Sunday a day of worship" Collier Encyclopedia, vol 7, p. 212
"It was the Holy Catholic Church that changed the day of rest form Saturday to Sunday, the first day of the week. And it not only compelled all to keep Sunday, but at the Council of Laodician, AD 364, anathematized (cursed) those who kept the Sabbath and urged all persons to labor on the 7th day under penalty of anathema (excommunication.)" Catholic Priest T. Enright,
CSSRR, Kansas city, Mo (Obviously the Catholic Church was present in 364 AD to take part in what the Laodician Council was doing to change the sabbath to Sunday.)
"The Bible says remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day. The Catholic Church says No! By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week. and low the entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the Holy Catholic Church." American Sentinel, Father Enright, 1893 (This quote is from 1893 not what he is saying in his quote.)
So it is obvious that Constantine issued a Law for all populations and religions in his empire concerning a rest day during the week. He prefered a day that the pagans celebrated the God Sun, the Day of the Sun, which also coincided with the already existing rest day of the christians, the Lord's Day. So there was a common day of rest for all peoples and religions.
Next we will talk Biblically.
And something you must know. In early church books one may encounter the term "catholic". Catholic is a greek word which means universal, and with that meaning it must be understood when reading those writtings. It is about the early united universal church. The early christians called their church as "The One Holy and Catholic(universal) and Apostolic(descending from the Apostles) Church". It had nothing to do with the later established Roman Catholic church who included the term catholic in their title with the purpose to claim that only them were the true universal church. It was just one fraction of the early church. So do not misunderstand the term catholic in those early writtings, it was not about the Papacy.
Please show biblical proof that the early church worshiped on the first day of the week. The two verses that are usually stated are the only ones I've seen used for this belief but consider a different interpretation; 1 Corinthians 16:2 This verse only states that Paul asked the church members to collect donations on the first day of the week for when he came again. Nothing is said that it was done at church services. Roman 14:5 Does your church only meet on Sunday to fellowship and hear preaching and teaching? This verse is just speaking of believers gathering on A Sunday to fellowship and listen to Paul preach because he had to leave the next day. It doesn't interpret as abolishing their regular worshiping on the Sabbath.
The Holy Catholic Church was involved in changing the sabbath to Sunday, these historical quotes, among others, proves it.
"The PRIMITIVE (my emphasis) Christians did keep the Sabbath of the Jews before the Christians for a long time together, did keep their convocations upon the Sabbath in which some portions of the law were read and this continued till the time of the Laodician Council." The whole Works of Jeremy Taylor, Vol. IX p416
"It was the Holy Catholic Church that changed the day of rest form Saturday to Sunday, the first day of the week. And it not only compelled all to keep Sunday, but at the Council of Laodician, AD 364, anathematized (cursed) those who kept the Sabbath and urged all persons to labor on the 7th day under penalty of anathema (excommunication.)" Catholic Priest T. Enright,
CSSRR, Kansas city, Mo (The Holy Catholic Church was involved with Laodicean Council , taking serious steps to put a stop to Christians still worshipping on the sabbath hundred of years after Christ.)
Please use scripture and historical proof for your comments. GOD COMMANDED us to rest and worship Him on one particular day of the week in one particular way. As for me I choose to obey God not man.
No one here is asking you to worship on Sunday instead of Saturday. You are free to use Saturday as your day of worship.
Giannis has given you some historical information that indicates that it was customary in the early decades of the church at the time of the apostles and shortly after to come together on Sunday, the Lord's Day, to worship.
If one wishes to follow the example of the early church and attend church services on Sunday that is fine. The Scriptures do not tell us what day to meet together for worship.
The Sabbath commandment was for a time of rest from work, not a call to come together to worship. At the time of the giving of the command on Sinai there were no synagogues (these came into being during the Babylonian exile along with rabbis and Pharisees, Sadducees, and teachers of the law). It was also in the Babylonian exile that all the Sabbath additions to the original command were instituted. So, in the time of Jesus, going to the synagogue on Saturday was considered the norm as long as one did not have to travel more that these "requirements" allowed. (This restriction on travel was one reason that there were so many synagogues and teachers). The people were only required to go to the temple a few times per year.
I think that in this conversation you have presented your point of view well and others such as Giannis and I have also presented our views well. It may be best to leave it at that and let others consider both views and decide according to their conscience as the Holy Spirit leads them.
I do understand that your are very passionate about this topic. We should be serious about our worship. Since there is not a biblical verse that tells us what day we HAVE to attend worship services, I think that we can worship any and every day of the week, either singularly or corporately, according to the lead of the Holy Spirit.
I love your zeal, Momsage. We all have topics that mean a great deal to us.
Loving the Lord of course must always be paramount in our walk with Christ. Obeying Christ out of love could also theoretically be reversed; we can LEARN to love God if we trust that obedience will bring about that intimate fellowship. Knowing our Creator not just knowing about Him allows us to reach out to others in our own church community as well as evangelizing the lost.
The Word once meditated upon should at some point go beyond rote memorization to being able to pull verses to fit a number of situations. That of course is bolstered by initiating the memory of key texts useful for fulfilling the Great Commission. It also has a benefit when a couple verses that have personal importance can be shared as a way of motivating others to study the promises of God applicable to them as well.
As to what we study; I leave it up to the savant to initiate a study in the genealogies of the first 8 chapters of 1 Chronicles. That is; BTW an excellent example of how to use other scriptures to make meaning out of what at first glance appears to be an exhaustive list of myriad individuals who; much like prayer requests often coming up at church involve people we don't know or understand other than what we are told (in that case someone's name). Such is the case with those who are listed and deemed important who we don't know much about except their place in the lineage of God's people (or in the case of the beginning of the Gospel accounts the lineage leading up to Christ). In this example; some names such as David and Abraham are familiar and upon further study we find out how Gentiles like Ruth fit in and how Rahab the harlot also appears. If anything it validates scripture; other religions aren't going to include all the faults and foibles of their heroes if it is a man made text or demonically inspired to appeal to man's good works for salvation.
My next posting will overview different types of scripture to study.
In everything that we say or do, may we exalt and extol YOU. 1 Corinthians 10: 31-33.
The LORD to shine HIS face on all the brethren and gloriously bless you.
January 7, 2024
There are egregious errors which false prophets and others can do with incorrect or deliberately nefarious manipulations of the Word of God to suit their own purposes. That is not the focus here.
After the first two postings; it is certainty important to assess before we study anything why we are doing it. As new believers; of course it is often the leadership of a Pastor that initiates our study of scriptures when we are largely ignorant of it's contents (unless atheists that have already studied the Bible as literature respecting it's dominance in history and importance through the centuries). This parenthesis I feel shouldn't be overlooked. As a dumbed down society we are often discouraged from appreciating anything enough to determine even if it may be interesting. It is much like how we don't learn Chinese but the Chinese are mandated to learn English for economic gain; and also to beat the enemy at their own game. In the same logic it helps to study the basic tenents and literature of another religion before attempting to witness to them; not to search for something meaningful for us but to show the person we witness to that we are willing to take the time so that arguments brought up may be refuted by the Bible as well as the logic of the sacred writings they themselves hold up to where often contradictory statments exist. For some; of course the doctrines of demons may have a great pull to drive us away from truth to false gods. Therefore; we must be ready for the "meat" of scripture and be growing in the faith "wise as serpents and innocent as doves" ( Matt. 10:16). The application there shows how Jesus confronted the Pharisees. He not only knew the scriptures well; but their traditions and how they would twist the truth.
In all of this we must be convinced ourselves that the Bible is inerrant and be driven by the Holy Spirit to enter into a commitment and plan for daily reading.
The strict adherance to reading one passage at a time in a given book of the Bible is that we ignore cross references. My Dake's Bible has over 100,000 references which is quite exhaustive. Of course some connections don't make sense to me. The fact is though that all of scripture is interconnected. It behooves us for witnessing at least to have multiple references particularly with the Gospel accounts to bring home the validity of the text. If we don't have a New Testament connection almost always there is one with the Old Testament; frequently direct quotes from Psalms in particular found in the four Gospels but also elsewhere in scripture.
Proper understanding means context; context context. Isolating a passage is of course myopic for interpretation almost always.
We can put together chapters even multiple ones (again often passages are fairly continuous from one to another and some Psalms basically are a continuation of the same from one chapter to another). Of course having an undestanding of the culture and history is helpful; which we can find out on our own with concordances and such resources as Foxe's "Book of the Martyrs". This is readily available from public resources online with many recent updates. As Protestants; of course we have "Calvin's Institutes" and other writings from the Reformation. Putting things into context with confessional statements are also helpful; and are emphasized frequently in these congregations.
Making scripture relateable to our lives in the 21st Century of course in some degree is necessary; but we must take care not to do undo violence to the clear meanings of scripture; nor ignore the events of the culture at the time of Christ that can be studied to expound upon such meanings (case in point the camel through the eye of the needle). This apparently was a passage with that name rather than a literal camel go through a needle.
The usual approach to this subject is to cite a resource that is available; such as the very well known "Daily Bread" devotions; to convicting ones (Oswald Chambers being my favorite). When undergoing a determination as to use of a particular daily reading we must be diligent to ascertain that the scriptures themselves are being studied in the proper context and the focus isn't on side subjects such as frilly sentiments that deliberately cherry pick for things to put us in a good mood and ignore the weightier scriptures. We should also make a realistic commitment to set apart a certain amount of time daily which of course may vary according to spiritual maturity; and the other things the Lord has in our life that is required of us.
Ultimately; we should learn to be workmen that are approved ( 2 Tim. 2:15) and meditate on the Word day and night ( Joshua 1:8). If it goes into our brain and leaves as soon as we enter into a different task then we haven't allowed it to transform us.
Even if we use devotionals that are generally sound scripturally; there is always an exception that pops up at times; where it appears a statement is being made that is not scripturally in line with what we were taught. We need to be aware and Bereans.
Part of what we must do is allow ourselves not to be held fast to certain things that are neither right or wrong but what we have become accustomed to. This includes verse headings (arbitrarily chosen much of the time to make translations clear in our language); the order of scripture (Job probably being the oldest book or at least as old as Genesis); and not being obsessive on a particular translation (such as KJV only adherents). That being said we must avoid obvious spurious translations and be aware that there are issues with any translation. KJV I would say is better in general as to holding to proper context with Christ's Divinity than some other renditions with a few isolated words in passages.
Philippians 3
1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.
2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
17Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
18(For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the ENEMIES of the cross of Christ:
19Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind EARTHLY things.)
20For our conversation is in heaven( Ephesians 1:3); from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
Ephesians 6:11-18
11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God,that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day,and having done all,to stand.
14Stand therefore,having your loins girt about with truth,and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16Above all, taking the shield of faith,wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17And take the helmet of salvation,and the sword of the Spirit,which is the word of God:
18Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit,and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints.
Revelation 22
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. ( Romans 2:12 - As many as have sinned without Law(the Gentiles) shall also PERISH without Law: and as many as have sinned in the Law(the Jews) shall be Judged by the Law;)
15 Without are dogs(dogs? Isaiah 56:10-11.Take a look), and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
But the fearful(the COWARDS), and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and ALL LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
The Word is GOD, self-executing, self-executable, understand?
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be(combined with Daniel 12:1-3 and Revelation 12:7-12).
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved( Romans 9:28): but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ ( John 5:43-47), or there; BELIEVE IT NOT.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets( Isaiah 9:15-16 combined with Revelation 12:3-4), and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. - 25 Behold, I have told you before.
There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
GOD bless everyone in CHRIST name.
January 06, 2024
God is a consuming fire and it denotes an aspect of His holiness, which is different from what we have here. "And, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.".(Ex.3:2-4). *There was a voice from its midst calling his attention. Naturally the Spirit presents Moses as the double for his Son to which we have a book-end in the transfiguration of Jesus again with a mountain in the backdrop. (St. Matt. 17:1-9).
In both cases we are looking at the glory of God and the tree refers to the tree of righteousness in terms of the tree of life. In the other the glory of spiritual body and the holy mount is another reference to the Son. Thus we have the glory in terms of the Father Son relationship.
Second point to remember is the glory of the Word and Moses with Elijah are served as double for the Son. (See under L-logos). (Ex.3:1-4).
God set up an encounter with Moses and his scholarly turn of mind turned back as foreknown. "And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I".
Spirit of Christ represents the glory which did not consume the tree which foreshadows tree of Life or of righteousness. The voice of the Lord has sent forth the word (Is.55:11). It also augurs the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. (See under M-parallelism)
* Explanation
Compare "And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine."(Re.6:6) The Spirit speaks on a non-verbal mode. While the four beast are continually praising God,holy,holy, holy' they keep their role as MC. They represent Glory of creation and Man as the steward. With each rider they alternate correspondingly. "And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see."(v.7)
John 1:
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
GOD to shine HIS face gloriously on all who love and look forward to HIS coming!
January 6, 2024
Acts 20:7 makes clear that gathering of the saints occurred on the first day of the week to bolster the collection made according to 1 Corinthians 16:2. The prescident is really from the fact that Christ fulfilled Pentacost which was the 8th day of the week (or Sunday) in the O.T. times was celebrated 50 days after the Passover.
Since we are not to have certain days to be held above others as Romans 14:5-6 indicates; we have no right to dictate either Saturday or Sunday for worship as I see it. Again; the Old Testament command was for Israel specifically as anyone in the land who disrespected the Sabbath was severely punished (see Deuteronomy 5:14). Other laws in the Old Testament such as marriage were clearly upheld even with pagan societies (as we see with the case of John the Baptist when he was imprisoned for contesting with the marriage status of a secular leader married to his brother's wife). Murder was evident with Cain well before the law came out. The fact is that Saturday worship can no longer be as it was without the sacrifices and other ordinances of the O.T. times which have been gone since the temple was destroyed in 70 AD. Christ is our Passover now ( 1 Corinthians 5:7) and the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath ( Matthew 12:8).
We also need to consider what Paul stated to those who were coming from pagan societies. He said in Acts 15:29 to avoid eating blood; or strangled animals (often done in pagan rituals) as well as sexual immorality. If Saturday worship was required you would expect something would be mentioned as all other things in the Commandments which are throughout the New Testament in the Gospels and Epistles.
There are further concerns with Adventist doctrines and Ellen White which I am not going to get into detail here; but this often is an added reason for this and other issues of contention. I agree that the edict of Milan enforcing Sunday worship is wrong also.
Sorry, it should be the Feast of Unleavened Bread where the first and the seventh day are the holy convocation, not Passover, my bad.
God bless,
RLW
I agree with what you have said some things have been used for power and control, the day people go to a church is for their conscience and should not be a division. We see in Acts they were meeting every day of the week. But if I may point out a few things about the eighth day, not to debate but things you may want to study. The eighth day appears in various contexts in the Bible but to my understanding never as a day of the week, there are only seven days of the week.
God told Abraham that male children should be circumcised on the eighth day after their birth. We know now medically on the eighth day after birth, vitamin K in the body is at its highest level on the eighth day, and it is pivotal in blood clotting.
It comes up again with the Feast of Tabernacles on the first day and the eighth day was a holy convocation with no work outside of preparing food could be done, unlike the Passover where the first day and the seventh day were a holy convocation.
The eighth day was used in some sacrifices where it was done on the eighth day after the sin, some in the past have referred to the Lord's Day as the eighth day, referring to a new creation and some say it will be the final day of judgment, but I do not know much about that.
Pentecost, also known as the Feast of Weeks, you count seven Sabbaths after Passover, and it will be the first day after the seventh Sabbath. That makes it the 50th which is the meaning of pentekoste/Pentecost on the first day of the week after 49 days/seven Sabbaths.
They would count each day, this is the first day, this is the second day until the 50th day the second harvest would be presented to God and said it was the same day God gave the law to Moses on Mount Sinai. and the day of the giving of the Holy Spirit, the second harvest.
I hope you don't mind Richard and are not offended; I read and enjoy your posts and hope your health is good.
God bless,
RLW
1Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2But we are sure that the Judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the Judgment of GOD?
4Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of GOD leadeth thee to repentance?
5But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the Day of Wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of GOD;
6Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, ETERNAL LIFE:
8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the Truth (GOD IS TRUTH), but obey unrighteousness, INDIGNATION and WRATH,
9TRIBULATION and ANGUISH, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11For there is no respect of persons with GOD.
12For as many as have sinned without law (THE GENTILES) shall also PERISH WITHOUT LAW: and as many as have sinned in the LAW shall be JUDGED by the LAW;
13(For not the hearers of the law are just before GOD,but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14For when the Gentiles(believers),WHICH HAVE NOT THE LAW, do BY NATURE the things contained in the law, these, HAVING NOT THE LAW, are a law unto themselves:
15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts,their conscience also bearing witness,and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another)
16In the Day when GOD shall Judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel
THE WORD IS GOD
The theory or doctrine of the Law was invented and was sowed by those which interpreted the Law from a human perspective, in fact a stumbling block- Genesis 3:1, not from GOD's perspective- Matthew 16:23.
JESUS said: John 7:38-He that believes on me,as the Scripture has said,out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Thus, about Sababath,for the understanding of all of us here,I would ask for you: Do you believe in the Word made flesh,Lord JESUS? You know that The Word is GOD,right?The Word made flesh-Lord JESUS-,He Himself preached,saying:Mat.11:17-All the prophets and the Law prophesied until John,period.Therefore,GOD Himself established the Law to last 1500 years,from Moses until JESUS,no more,no more than this.
See,JESUS was not abolishing the Law His Father gave to Moses,it's evident: JESUS and the Father are One,although be two distincts Persons- Hebrews 1:3 & 8-, so,in fact,JESUS was only clarifying the period of validity of the Law given to Moses by His Father. GOD the Father had established The Law by His own power, the period of validity or prevalence of the Law lasted from Moses until JESUS specifically, understand?And JESUS only preached what GOD commanded Him to say to the people.JESUS said:Jo.12:49-I have not spoken of myself;but the Father which sent me,He gave me a commandment,what I should say,and what I should speak.
That said, keeping the Sabbath day over time after grace came, i.e.after JESUS came,these people do not do this by the Spirit of Christ,but by the letter written in the stone,according OT,the letter kills,and also they keep Sabbath day according to the calendar created and developed by devilish/satanic worshipers of the Beast of sea-Revevelation 13:1-10.
The true followers of my Lord JESUS do not fight against the Law of GOD given to Moses,but against seducing spirits,and doctrines of devils,speaking lies in hypocrisy;having their conscience seared with a hot iron.
Be careful- 2Peter 3:7&11-12 & Isaiah 33:10-14
I see in this forum lot of arguments regarding the Sabbath, and I wonder why are we splitting hairs while we have come to the ends of the world,?- and there is some mighty shaking that is about to set off. The Jews could not enter the rest God promised them since observance of the day was good enough for them. Not live therein to His praise and glory.
God blessed man on the sixth day and sanctified it since his calling and gifts are irrevocable. What stopped them from entering into God's rest but disbelief? "Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come."(1 Co.10:11-13) As His mercies are new everyday what prevents our churches from entering into the rest? Culture wars of the ungodly are very much within. How the church historically is grafted to Rome is unholy. In the Book of Daniel it is called miry clay trying to fit with the iron of pagan world. No wonder dialogue is never about settling the spiritual significance of the day but about the letter which kills. It is thus literal reading of the Holy writ has created divisions. If the root be unholy, what about her branches, the Reformation of Luther Calvin, Charismatic movements but a snake-pit to breed controversies? When God shakes the world as it shall happen before long and after the dust clears we shall see the word of God once again shaping a world the pure speech shall be found."For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent."(Zep.3:9)
The Spirit introduces this verse "And if the root be holy, so are the branches."(Ro.11:16b)
How the church historically is grafted to Rome is unholy. In the Book of Daniel it is called miry clay and heresies are its natural world. So who deceived the builders so instead of the doctrine of Christ we are left with the supremacy of Pope and the Church of Rome as the Mother Church? 'If the root be holy' tells it all.
No wonder we have a tree not planted by God but by man. It is not 'I am the true Vine and ye are the branches '
"Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee."(11:18) How long shall a believer let carried from truth?
Thank you for sharing your thoughts today.
A question we should ask ourselves; Do we study it with a confirmation bias? I know I have in the past and I must fight it every time I open the Bible. It is part of our subconscious mind; confirmation bias is when we study the Bible, we look for verses to confirm our existing beliefs, without even knowing it we ignore any Bible verses that conflict with what we believe.
Our existing beliefs are deeply entrenched in our subconscious mind, and our subconscious mind blocks the true meaning unless we accept that we may be wrong and in prayer make a sincere effort to come to the Scriptures with an open mind as we know nothing, praying for the truth with open ears, that we may hear.
Like stories we have heard from childhood, only two, a male and a female of each animal and bird went into the ark with Noah, or the wise men went to the manger when Jesus was a baby. Is that the truth? We must not automatically defend our beliefs without ever really questioning them, if not, the truth becomes harder to find.
1 John 4:1, we are told to test the spirits and many other Scriptures tell us to be aware of false prophets, and false teachers, 2 Corinthians 11:13-15. It is easy to start with a doctrine, or something we have been taught, or what we believe to find Scripture that will confirm it, but is that the true meaning that God inspired the writer to write?
I read and study the KJV, but we must be honest it is a translation and if something feels wrong in our heart, we must not ignore it. Whatever version we have we must trust it is the word of God and His Spirit will give us the understanding of it and shine light on the truth, not from our mind.
We can study in two ways, exegesis, considering the context, and God's intent, and open to the truth given to us through the Holy Spirit, or eisegesis by reading into it with one's own presuppositions, ideas, or the traditions of man.
Just a thought for the new year. Love you guys.
God bless,
RLW
as to what the devil's next step is in creating this show? I'm sure most of you have seen the ads on TikTok promoting the app
Hallow by, guess who, Jonathan Roumie. This app promotes Catholicism with praying the rosary, for one thing, as being a
complete worship of Mary. Blatant idolatry. Jonathan Roumie is now a famous man with many ardent followers and his intention
is to convert as many poor souls to this terrible religion as he can. I knew the TV show was just the beginning of something like
this when found out he was a devote Catholic. One viewer commented he loved listening to him because he had such a
soothing, peaceful voice. Do you suppose the devil can use a soothing, peaceful voice to fool souls? I pity Jonathan Roumie and
am praying earnestly that he will find true salvation, leave this church and denounce it. Only God knows.
11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb,and by the word of their TESTIMONY;and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12Therefore rejoice,ye heavens(heavenly places in Christ JESUS-i.e. the celestial environments of the Old and New Testaments),and ye that dwell in them-the believers-.Woe to the inhabiters of the earth(Israel)and of the sea!(sea/waters=peoples,and NATIONS,and multitudes of all tongues-Gentile peoples-which were deceived by that old serpent that deceives the whole world)for the Devil is come down unto you,having great wrath,because he knows that he has but a short time.13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth(from the heaven- Isaiah 14:12-15),he persecuted the woman...
14And to the woman were given TWO WINGS of a great eagle(the Old Testament and New Testament-two witnesses of GOD- Revelation 11:3-4.Take a kook),that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place,where she is nourished(by the Old and New Testaments-the Word of GOD,the Scriptures)for a time,and times, and half a time,from the face of the serpent.
15And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman(be careful,don't drink of that water),that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16And the earth(144K of Israel- Revelation 7:1-10 and 14:1-5.Take a look)helped the woman(the Lord's Church- John 10:15-16),and the earth opened her mouth,and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman,and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. -The testimony of Christ is the Spirit of prophecy-Re.19:10 combined with Ro.8:9-11.GET READY
I know the world has made it very hard for true believers to honor the 4th commandment. The other nine are getting that way too, but does that excuse us from obeying them? Again how do we justify ignoring the 4th commandment and not the other nine? Jesus' rest is a spiritual rest, the commandment is a physical, mental and spiritual rest. One doesn't replace the other. No scripture says that. There's no wrong in worshiping on Sunday and relaxing but the commandment was for the seventh day; Saturday so it must be done on that day also if we are to be obedient to what God wants us to do. You say I'm being legalistic? Well, I'm not going to worship another God, or take God's name in vain, or build idols to worship, or to not honor my parents, or to murder, or lie (not even little white ones) or to steal or to be jealous, is that being legalistic? If so then I love being legalistic and obeying God's commandments and that is why I worship and rest on Saturday. Each commandment is clear including the 4th. It is so simple, however, we've let the world command us to what day we worship and rest. However, even that has pretty well fallen along the wayside. Our disregard for resting on the sabbath has brought us to a place where we disregard ceasing our labor in any way that resembles what God commanded us to do even on Sundays and the world is suffering because of it
God Bless :)
I am not a part of any church or denomination.
Constantine and the Catholic Church made it mandatory to worship on Sunday.)
I know the world has made it very hard for true believers to honor the 4th commandment. The other nine are getting that way too, but does that excuse us from obeying them? Again how do we justify ignoring the 4th commandment and not the other nine? Jesus' rest is a spiritual rest, the commandment is a physical, mental and spiritual rest. One doesn't replace the other. No scripture says that. So worship and relax ,on Sunday but the commandment was for the seventh day; Saturday so it must be done on that day if we are to be obedient to what God wants us to do. You say I'm being legalistic? Well, I'm not going to worship another God, or take God's name in vain, or build idols to worship, or to not honor my parents, or to murder, or lie (not even little white ones) or to steal or to be jealous either, is that being legalistic? If so then I love being legalistic and obeying God's commandments and that is why I worship and rest on Saturday. Each commandment is clear including the 4th. It is so simple, however, we've let the world command us to what day we worship and rest. However, even that has pretty well fallen along the wayside. Our disregard for resting on the sabbath has brought us to a place where we disregard ceasing our labor in any way that resembles what God commanded us to do even on Sundays and the world is suffering because of it.
God Bless :)
I am not part of any denomination.
SEE BELOW
"Constantine published the Edict of Milan, granting freedom of religion in the empire and establishing Sunday a day of worship" Collier Encyclopedia, vol 7, p. 212
"It was the Holy Catholic Church that changed the day of rest form Saturday to Sunday, the first day of the week. And it not only compelled all to keep Sunday, but at the Council of Laodician, AD 364, anathematized (cursed) those who kept the Sabbath and urged all persons to labor on the 7th day under penalty of anathema (excommunication.)" Catholic Priest T. Enright,
CSSRR, Kansas city, Mo (Obviously the Catholic Church was present in 364 AD to take part in what the Laodician Council was doing to change the sabbath to Sunday.)
"The Bible says remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day. The Catholic Church says No! By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week. and low the entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the Holy Catholic Church." American Sentinel, Father Enright, 1893 (This quote is from 1893 not what he is saying in his quote.)
So it is obvious that Constantine issued a Law for all populations and religions in his empire concerning a rest day during the week. He prefered a day that the pagans celebrated the God Sun, the Day of the Sun, which also coincided with the already existing rest day of the christians, the Lord's Day. So there was a common day of rest for all peoples and religions.
Next we will talk Biblically.
And something you must know. In early church books one may encounter the term "catholic". Catholic is a greek word which means universal, and with that meaning it must be understood when reading those writtings. It is about the early united universal church. The early christians called their church as "The One Holy and Catholic(universal) and Apostolic(descending from the Apostles) Church". It had nothing to do with the later established Roman Catholic church who included the term catholic in their title with the purpose to claim that only them were the true universal church. It was just one fraction of the early church. So do not misunderstand the term catholic in those early writtings, it was not about the Papacy.
GBU
The Holy Catholic Church was involved in changing the sabbath to Sunday, these historical quotes, among others, proves it.
"The PRIMITIVE (my emphasis) Christians did keep the Sabbath of the Jews before the Christians for a long time together, did keep their convocations upon the Sabbath in which some portions of the law were read and this continued till the time of the Laodician Council." The whole Works of Jeremy Taylor, Vol. IX p416
"It was the Holy Catholic Church that changed the day of rest form Saturday to Sunday, the first day of the week. And it not only compelled all to keep Sunday, but at the Council of Laodician, AD 364, anathematized (cursed) those who kept the Sabbath and urged all persons to labor on the 7th day under penalty of anathema (excommunication.)" Catholic Priest T. Enright,
CSSRR, Kansas city, Mo (The Holy Catholic Church was involved with Laodicean Council , taking serious steps to put a stop to Christians still worshipping on the sabbath hundred of years after Christ.)
Please use scripture and historical proof for your comments. GOD COMMANDED us to rest and worship Him on one particular day of the week in one particular way. As for me I choose to obey God not man.
God Bless :)
No one here is asking you to worship on Sunday instead of Saturday. You are free to use Saturday as your day of worship.
Giannis has given you some historical information that indicates that it was customary in the early decades of the church at the time of the apostles and shortly after to come together on Sunday, the Lord's Day, to worship.
If one wishes to follow the example of the early church and attend church services on Sunday that is fine. The Scriptures do not tell us what day to meet together for worship.
The Sabbath commandment was for a time of rest from work, not a call to come together to worship. At the time of the giving of the command on Sinai there were no synagogues (these came into being during the Babylonian exile along with rabbis and Pharisees, Sadducees, and teachers of the law). It was also in the Babylonian exile that all the Sabbath additions to the original command were instituted. So, in the time of Jesus, going to the synagogue on Saturday was considered the norm as long as one did not have to travel more that these "requirements" allowed. (This restriction on travel was one reason that there were so many synagogues and teachers). The people were only required to go to the temple a few times per year.
I think that in this conversation you have presented your point of view well and others such as Giannis and I have also presented our views well. It may be best to leave it at that and let others consider both views and decide according to their conscience as the Holy Spirit leads them.
I do understand that your are very passionate about this topic. We should be serious about our worship. Since there is not a biblical verse that tells us what day we HAVE to attend worship services, I think that we can worship any and every day of the week, either singularly or corporately, according to the lead of the Holy Spirit.
I love your zeal, Momsage. We all have topics that mean a great deal to us.