Mark 16:61-72 Simon Peter denied Christ before the maid who kept the door of the chief priest's palace. "Now Peter sat without in the palace: and a damsel came unto him, saying, Thou also wast with Jesus of Galilee (Matt.26-69)". In the darkness Simon Peter's voice betrayed him. 'Surely thou also art one of them; for thy speech bewrayeth thee (v.73)'. Voice carries much more significance than the mere sound of it. The words that Jesus spoke was not his own. 'He who hears me hears who sent me ( Luke 10:16). Simon Peter forsook all in order to become his disciple. In denying Christ he was also denying the voice of the Lord he heard. Principle of Association (Matt.10:40).
Voice recognition of a Christian is in the way truth in his inward parts matches with his action. Voice of the Lord is dealing with the living word and it is to bring out the full potential of man. It is truth written in his inward parts that places his words and actions in harmony. (1 Co.14:7)
She was a Philistine woman who caused the mighty Samson to fall. (Jud.16:4-20) Since then she remains the epitome of the 'strange woman' set down in the Book of Proverbs. Of what worth was 'Nazirite'vows of Samson to her? Profane love of an adulterous woman is like the apostate church espousing the doctrine of man rather than of Christ.
Secondly she was not herself free anymore than world is. She was driven by her Philistine masters as an apostate church belabors under Satan so activism is no more than serving the political taskmasters. The cause may be pro-Life and anti-abortion but in the end it works out to be the same.
Joseph was the first son born to Rachel, and the eleventh son of Jacob. The name Joseph signified May God add to me another (Ge.30:24). Rachel meant thereby to imply that the name was drawing attention not for itself but something looking to future. Joseph is by all accounts is a double of Jesus. For example we have the sons of Jacob selling their brother to the Ishmaelite-Midianite caravan for 20 pieces of silver. Consider Jesus was betrayed for 30 pieces, which of course is higher in value that owes to exchange rates of the time. "And they (chief priests) covenanted with him (Judas Iscariot) for thirty pieces of silver (Mt.26:15)"Jesus came unto his own, and his own received him not(Jn.1:11). The sibling whom his brethren sold became their saviour at the time of famine. God raised Joseph from death and gave him a name above every other name.
'Our bodies as a temple' is an idea and it is valid because of the everlasting covenant. 'A body has thou prepared me' refers to the Lamb of God and tabernacle of God as a house. Our individual covenant by blood has also antecedent in the slain Lamb before the foundation of the world. All these owe to the everlasting covenant between God and Jesus Christ representing all believers forever sanctified.
The will of God is complete so the Now connects with us in time and place. For this reason names of people and persons are interchangeable because "All things were created by him, and for him:/And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."(Col.1:15-17). So when God sent his word before the worlds began it was meant to succeed. "So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it." The same word has a logos principle (See under P-principle). Thus the Word becoming flesh has its own profile. It explains the fulness of time.
Predestination in simple terms is stated in the Abstract. (Ge.1:27-28) God blessed man and made him a steward of His creation. In this MOU between God and Man whosoever adopted into the Fellowship is according to the everlasting covenant. So the eternal word included him to which time and place are of no consequence.
In the divine Will we examine the Father Son relationship which has consequences. As St Paul speaks of 'the good pleasure of his will' so adoption is intended for the glory of his grace, "wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved." Grace and truth came by Jesus Christ signifying the doctrine of God as doable. It is thus eternal aspect of Holiness we see through the prism of the Son. Abiding in him our adoption is conformed in Jesus Christ. (Ep.1:3-5)
Compare the analogy made by writer to the Hebrews, "(Levi) payed tithes in Abraham./ For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him." (7:9-10)*. We were dead in sins by the same account when the emblem of the slain Lamb was created in heaven.
Predestination was set rolling when God set forth the decree Ps.2:7-8) and accordingly we were all foreknown. Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and forever. (He.13:8) The testimony of Jesus Christ. (Re.3:12-13)
In order to understand fully the concept of predestination we have to examine why St Paul was ' apprehended of Jesus Christ. (Ph. 3:7-12)
"Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus."
Predestination of God is often brought to more clarity by use of persons so that the Promise of God to Abraham ("all families") are represented simultaneously. How does one do it but in terms of Time as reconstituted by the Spirit? We have two instances of Jesus and Joseph historically divided in time and place.
In the Abstract we have God blessing His creation. (Ge.1:20-22) In the light of the above here we have St Peter making a distinction as to what kosher is and what is not.
"And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat./ But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean."(Ac.10:13-14) In the vision of Simon Peter at Joppa, his Jewish mindset proved daunting. So the voice came second time and third time. But the voice made the point:' What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.' The Spirit is specific and the number Three, -a command number mentioned above is for instruction: the Son has cleansed with his blood such ceremonial defilement stipulated in the Law of Moses. ( 1 John 1:7)
Jesus during his earthly ministry pointed where defilement could occur:"But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man./For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:/These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.(Matt.15:18-20).
In this context to the pure everything is pure. (Ti.1:15). This purity is not imposed from outside by sheer will but in being at rest, letting Jesus who lives in the believer at rest too, so whatever he does is for the glory of God. "If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen." (1 Pe.4:11)
" For the Lord hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation./ This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it."/ King David blesses the nation with these words, "The Lord that made heaven and earth bless thee out of Zion." This is the highway a child of God carves out by abiding in Christ. He produces fruits for glory and honour of God who blessed him before the worlds began.(Ep.1:4)
When Hannah sings, "Pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and he hath set the world upon them (1 Sa.2:8)," she was referring to his sovereignty. The spiritual foundation of a Christian instructs him how to walk with God.. Our case as to our future is no different from of Abraham. (He.11:9)" It is a pilgrim's progress when he begins and ends it is with Him. Where are we going? Like the patriarch we look for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God(v.10)"
In this context we shall appreciate v.1, "I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help. This city is founded on the Rock of Ages." It is heavenly so the degree of ascents refers to our transition from the world of the flesh to 'the heavenly places'. (Col.3:1-3)
"Song of Ascents" under the entry D- degrees (1 of 2)
A title given to fifteen psalms from 120 to 134 inclusive of which four are attributed to King David and one to his son Solomon. There were three appointed feasts namely Passover, Pentecost and Tabernacles. By tradition pilgrims expressing their joy in going up to Jerusalem would have sung. There are 15 songs in this series and each psalm may correspond to the step leading a pilgrim.
Historically the children of Israel showed that they moved on their bellies in the wilderness. How often did they grumble against Moses and Aaron? (Ex.16:3) They would have stoned them and they despised manna, which God gave. He fed them with angel's food. Yet what was their cry? "And said, Who shall give us flesh to eat?"(Nu.11:4-5) God sent them quails, which gives us a revealing glimpse as to why they stopped short from doing the commandments with their heart and soul. Their rebellious spirit brought cancer to their souls since they would not worship God, a Spirit in spirit and truth. "And he gave them their request; but sent leanness into their soul.(106:15). A wasting disease nevertheless.
These are examples and left for 'our admonition upon whom the ends of the world are come'. In short the Spirit warns us to search our hearts well as we are pilgrims and sojourners even as they. The Spirit of Christ revealed to Prophet Elisha what motivated his servant, "And he said unto him, Went not mine heart with thee, when the man (Naaman) turned again from his chariot to meet thee? Is it a time to receive money, and to receive garments, and olive-yards, and vineyards, and sheep, and oxen, and menservants, and maidservants? (2 Ki.5:26)
" For the Lord hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation./ This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it."/
6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
May we humble ourselves before the LORD GOD and worship HIM in truth and in spirit. FATHER, we need YOUR hand on our nation and our leaders. Thank YOU LORD for answering our prayers.
Thank you for your thoughts and prayers. That really blesses me to know you are lifting me up in prayer. My thyroid ultrasouond showed that there are now two small nodules and that I should do a follow up ultrasound in a year. I go to the rheumatologist on Tuesday and he will evaluate why my white blood cell count is high in three of the five types of white blood cells.
Our home restoration from the pipe leak is coming along well. The flooring goes in this week as well as installing the new shower pan, walls, and doors. Then the flooring in the bathroom will be done and the vanity and toilet reset. In the other bath, the tub surround will be installed next and then the flooring, then the vanity and toilet resetting.
We spent this weekend painting rooms that will be refloored this week as some of the job is not insurance related but makes sense to do at this time. So doing the painting ourselves will save money for us. We are waiting to hear back from the adjuster to see if repainting the ceiling in the area we painted the walls will be covered since we noticed a few water spots appearing in the ceiling. Must have begun to show up as the ceiling dried. If the insurance will cover the painting, then we will have the worker remove the popcorn ceiling first and then texture and paint. The removal of the popcorn ceiling and texturing will be on us to pay for. But at least the painting may be paid for by insurance. We are faring well with all the "stuff" this involves. And it is really pleasing to me to get these things done that needed to be done decades ago when we first moved in 30 years ago.
I am thankful for the inheritance I received from my Mom when she passed almost two years ago. It will pay for what we will be doing as upgrades in this project. We will still have enough to continue to remodel all of the downstairs. So very blessed by her and thankful!
Pnovello, again, thank you for your care for me. Let me know how I can pray for you also.
Thanks for sharing your needs with me. I will be praying for you as you adjust with the loss of your daughter. So sad. But we are both "in the Lord" "under the shelter of His wings" and He "rejoices over us with singing", so how good is it to know the Lord Jesus, our Savior and the Father, the Almighty, and the Holy Spirit, the ever present help in times of trouble.
I, too, go to the internet to find out more about medical matters that pertain to me or a loved one. It helps me to have a better understanding of what is going on and what rests and findings mean. Since I have not had any illness or infection in the last year, it is interesting that my white blood cell count is so high. But in chronic inflammation can do this also, and I have arthritis and a rare condition called Behcet's that involves inflammatory reactions in vascular structures (veins, arteries and organs that are highly vascular (kidneys, heart, lungs) so hopefully the Dr. will do a thorough workup. Maybe will need an MRI or Cat Scan to see if something can be found that is causing my body to attack itself.
I will be praying for you often Patricia. You are going through a lot and it really hurts to lose a child no matter what age they are. May you be blessed today as you rest in God in all your comings and goings.
Intentional misleading of another, classic example of which was practiced by the serpent on Eve; similarly we have another example and when done it leads the simple away from path of life. "For the lips of a strange woman drop as an honeycomb, and her mouth is smoother than oil:/ But her end is bitter as wormwood, sharp as a two-edged sword./ Her feet go down to death; her steps take hold on hell." (Pr.5:3-5) Instead of heart fortified with faith the simple go by appearances and are led astray. For this reason Jeremiah spoke of the destructive power heart could wield. "Heart is deceitful or treacherous and who shall know it" except by the light of knowledge of the word? (Je.17:9) God does not tempt anyone but desires let grow can prove irresistible. (Jas.1:14) Satan is the deceiver who is the father of lies. "He that hateth dissembleth with his lips, and layeth up deceit within him;/ When he speaketh fair, believe him not: for there are seven abominations in his heart./ Whose hatred is covered by deceit, his wickedness shall be shewed before the whole congregation." The number seven is a tag by the Spirit. Totally given over to defraud others
On the other hand we have this testimony of the Spirit, of the Son "Nor was any deceit in his mouth."(Is.53:9) Ministry of St Paul was to present the Bride as a chaste virgin to Christ. (2 Co.11:2) The strange woman as depicted in the Book of Proverbs invariably refers to apostate church whose heart has departed from the Lord God. "And the adulteress woman will hunt for the precious life." (Pr.6:26b)
"For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself; first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear." ( Mark 4:28)
Here we have a variation of the fruit-bearing tree with 'seed in itself' stated in the Abstract that shall never change. This is part of MOU between God and Man.(Ge.1:11) Any abrogation of the terms would be self-defeating since it the Law or the Word that is on the line. God cannot deny himself. It is His holiness.
The earth abides forever because it signifies the Son in the divine Will and a day is decreed for him and at the end of it there shall be gathering in sheaves. In the Parable of the Tares, we have this "and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."(Matt.13:30)
There is a time lapse which explains the principle of Similitude where realities of heaven is compared with that of the earth. There is a variation also in the yield. In terms of Isaac blessings of God is converted in terms of yield. "Then Isaac sowed in that land, and received in the same year an hundredfold: and the LORD blessed him."(Ge.26:12) Cf. "But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold."(Matt.13:8) How come such variations though God created all hearts alike He tests their works and find their faith is not alike.(Ps.33:15) It is what the King's dream was all about.
(Dan.2:28-45)
Either we gather with Christ Jesus or we scatter which is what we find with the miry clay. Those who mixed God's word with doctrine of men "and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them." There is no place for them. It is what God does to the tares. Megachurches mean nothing; neither does it mean anything because the apostate church backed the winner. What shall they do when the rock hits them?
While we study the Bible we need keep in mind the Pauline dictum , "All things were created by him, and for him:/And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."(Col.1:16-17) It is true in the episode where God put to silence all murmurers over the Levitical priesthood. 'By him(Jesus Christ) all things consist' so Moses is set down as a double for the Son. In rebelling against him they were rebelling against the eternal word of God.
Predestination is not in the matter of time but is to be explained by the eternal Word of God and how it is worked out by the Son( by whom all things consist).God had earlier said why he was setting the rod of Aaron against others. "And it shall come to pass, that the man's rod, whom I shall choose, shall blossom: and I will make to cease from me the murmurings of the children of Israel, whereby they murmur against you." The man whom I shall choose" can only be in obedience to the MOU in the Abstract (Ge.1:11) The word of God is in the heart so our fruits can only be by abiding in the true Vine. We are all branches considering 'the fruit in itself' and part of the Son. He was the word become flesh.
So the episode of Aaron goes beyond what it literally seems to indicate. The rod blossomed because it belonged to one God had chosen. Predestination therefore must be understood as mentioned earlier not in the context of time but in light of 'the Word which was God' and the Son of man who triumphed over death.
The tabernacle of witness in the wilderness held mercy seat in the holies indicating God among us. Instead of God an angel of the Lord shall go before them. . However God has made it clear, 'for I will not go up in the midst of thee.' God did not allow Moses to see his glory indirectly. Significance of the cleft in the rock is same as God sending 'the angel of his presence' instead, fulfillment of which was in the Advent of the Son.
Next I wish to speak of how God' character is "QUINTESSENTIAL"
Which means the highest, purest, most perfect, supreme manifestation, example, incarnation, type of the essence of something, the express image.
Jesus is the quintessential expression of God.
Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of His glory, and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on High."
Colossians 2:9 "For in Him dwelleth ALL the fullness of the Godhead bodily"
John 14:9 "Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip?
He that hath seen me hath seen the Father,, and how saith though then: Show us the Father?
Jesus is God in the flesh. He is the Son of the Father eternally and one with the Father and the Holy Spirit. The Godhead is three Persons in one Godhead. Not three gods, but one. Jesus became man to save us and to show us a fleshy person of the Godhead, that is in union with the Godhead as the Word made flesh. Jesus is the perfect manifestation of true God. There is no other who can truly and perfectly represent God to us. Jesus is the only one who came from within the Godhead to earth to live as a man for us. The Holy Spirit is the only Spirit who came from within the Godhead to come to live in us. When Jesus came to earth, the Father and the Spirit were in Him yet still separate Persons from Him. And when the Holy Spirit lives in us, the Father and the Son lives in each of us, yet are still separate Persons. There are not multiple Fathers and Sons and Holy Spirits inhabiting every believer that every has lived. There is only one. God who is everywhere present all the time and specifically present in every believer. This is a mystery, but it is real and true. God has told us so in His Word that is truly true.
In heaven, if Jesus is the only one we see of the Godhead, we will truly be seeing the Godhead.
RED APPLE TREATY 4 ME ONLY on Isaiah 54 - 3 months ago
"No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD." Isaiah 54:17 KJV
Answer:
"In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee." Isaiah 54:14 KJV
The LORD is redeemer . For I am holy to recieve the gift and gifts of men. Oppression, terror shall not prosper and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn.
"Surely men of low degree are a vapour, Men of high degree are a lie; If they are weighed on the scales, They are altogether lighter than vapour."(Ps.62:9-NKJV)
A degree marks ascent or descent in matter of development. It is a sign for the faithless nation in their perpetual backsliding. In extending the life of King Hezekiah the sundial showed something else. It went backwards, "And Hezekiah answered, "It is an easy thing for the shadow to go down ten degrees; no, but let the shadow go backward ten degrees."/ So Isaiah the prophet cried out to the LORD, and He brought the shadow ten degrees backward, by which it had gone down on the sundial of Ahaz.(2 Ki.2:20-8-11-NKJV).
"So the last shall be first, and the first," Jesus warned. Here we have a saying of Jesus that is built of chiastic structure. The Spirit instructs from the life of Hezekiah how the word of God works. The birth of Manasseh and his evil rein was consequential for Israel to be cast off as an apostate nation. Time is what the word of God shall make of the predetermined will of God.
Hi Bennyhkje: A little offense taken, but that's ok. I believe you are a very intelligent, man of intellect and I understand why you wouldn't want to listen to a woman of "nonsense" that believes the KJB bible was written By God, so I will be silent, for you. Thank You for the discussions we have had. I have enjoyed them. God Bless :)
Yes, KJV as with great many translations are compiled under the leading of the Holy Spirit. I am writing this by the same. You cannot be a child of God without being Led by the Holy Spirit.(Ro.8:14).
One example of a "unicorn" mentioned in KJV is clearly describing some other animal as it is a mythological animal that doesn't exist. In that case another version may make clear what it was referring to. With all that is said here it shouldn't dissuade you from believing anything of importance of doctrine in the KJV just that some other versions may have added detail or a slightly different accepted text included or excluded which doesn't change things much. We can almost always prove that when there is a difference than certain truths are in both versions of the same event; or there are two separate events (such as is indicated in different details in the Gospel accounts). One is missing most geneology (I think in Mark); other parts have the end of the Lord's prayer cut out (in Luke) which in reality is said only to be a sample prayer for us to follow. Again the Lord in His Providence kept certain things hidden from view and all the truth He wanted is in scripture; hence we can be assured that no one can add or subtract anything as Revelation states after that last book of scripture was written by the last surviving Apostle; John.
In general then we have an infallible scripture in the KJV which God also used an "infallable" means of preservation through the oral and later written texts through that time for the 1611 version except for the Apocrypha that was in some versions. It was first removed in 1666 apparently overseas but not until the 1800s in our nation so until then that part was NOT infallable.
I won't attempt to go on anymore at this point. This certainly shouldn't dissuade you from the KJV or your faith; but also of course you shouldn't say it is the ONLY version that has any truth and should see some other versions on occasion for clearer or alternative meanings of text. Only John Himself may know whether the woman caught in adultery actually occured; I see no reason to doubt it at least close to what is written.
I will appeal to 2 Timothy 3:16. It states that all scripture is God breathed (by inspiration) of God and suitable for teaching; correction; reproof; etc. That would insure that at the time the 66 books were approved (as opposed to spurious tales such as the Gospel of Thomas) in the Protestant Bible were indeed the infallable Word of God. So in that regard the answer for the King James Version; although it was after earlier versions (Latin Vulgate; Tyndale and Geneva and others) which THEMSELVES were copied from manuscripts which were at best several HUNDRED years removed from the original manuscripts are indeed infallable with the exception of versions that have later texts and some statistical information that may be off from the original manuscripts and earliest accurate historical accounts. In terms of doctrine therefore I would say that I am unaware of any laws or any other important supernatural accounts that are only seen in some manuscripts so that in that case ALL of what we read should be infallable.
Defining the word infallible is helpful. As to what the Catholics consider the Pope to have (and indeed if he WERE keeping the doctrine that Peter himself had as the so called first Pope) that is the standard I am using here. In other words in terms of doctrine he is claimed to be infallible; not to his so called "ex cathedra" statements. These extra sections such as the story between the end of chapter 7 and beginning of 8 in John about the woman caught in adultery involve no doctrinal statement as I said before. We see parts of Enoch mentioned in scripture which indicate that what is mentioned in that snippet (in Jude I think) IS the truth as to what the book originally said; but other parts are not so clear. I believe we are missing parts of some of it as well; but since the whole book isn't in the Bible God in His Providence used men such as those that screened the KJV to preserve His Word and remove spurious writings.
Why is it so hard to accept that God in His omniscience had control of the writing, copying and translation of His word from the beginning to be sure we have the finished KJB today being the only infallible truth, the ONLY one written by the Holy Ghost? God is a powerful, almighty God and there is no place with Him for those whose corrupt His Word. Rev. 22:18-19 "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."
Just a couple of examples.
Rev. 13: 8 KJB "And I beheld, and heard an ANGEL (my emphasis) flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!"
NIV "As I watched, I heard an EAGLE that was flying in midair call out in a loud voice: "Woe! Woe! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the trumpet blasts about to be sounded by the other three angels!"
Mark 15: 28 NIV omits this verse which speaks of a prophecy of the Messiah being fulfilled by Jesus. This dilutes the deity of Christ.
Luke 4:8 KJB "And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve."
NIV Jesus answered, 'It is written: 'Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.' " Again, dilutes the deity of Christ and His power to rebuke satan.
I am going to roll over after this last attempt to answer your question.
First; again we need to understand that the KJV was closest to the OLDER renditions of Geneva and Tyndale. Again the earliest edition in 1611 had the Apocrypha which was NOT inspired for 50 years or so and in this country apparently until the mid 1800s.
I will state that it is infallable as to doctrinal matters. For instance all but one or two books are in the Dead Sea scrolls from the 66 in our Bible; but other extrabiblical stuff was left out. We cannot say the same for a few words different (even KJV will state that one manuscript is slightly different as an option in it's own commentary and there may be a couple other cases when other manuscripts have a section present or missing.) When one manuscript is chosen over another there MAY be a clear indication error occurred but in other cases we can't say other versions are wrong either.
Finally; the issue in Revelation is adding new scripture AFTER Revelation or deliberately adding or subtracting from Revelation in particular but also indicating not doing violence deliberately to scripture after the Word is complete post Revelation. Such a manipulation is CLEAR in things such as the Passion Translation and the versions that cults have (such as the Jehovah's Witness Bible). That is different than say a historical statement (which BTW is needed to understand the Feast of Dedication which Jesus celebrated (i.e. Hanukkah) which is NOT in either Testament of the Bible except there and to understand it we need to read from nonbiblical sources. Facts can be scriptural or nonscriptural as God uses all things for His glory.
One can argue that God wouldn't allow error in numbers taken in a census or other like statistics but discrepancies appear to exist even within different passages in KJV which again usually can be explained with the details missing or added in another section.
Your welcome and I will take your lead and roll over, also, after this response.
"I will state that it is infallable as to doctrinal matters ..... When one manuscript is chosen over another there MAY be a clear indication error occurred but in other cases we can't say other versions are wrong either." You don't seem to understand or else believe that when God canonizes His word it is in a righteous and complete way. God doesn't do this so that some parts are right and some wrong so they need to be corrected, added too or erased according to man's arrogance. If we can't trust all of it we
can't trust any of it. Do we trust and have faith in God's omniscience and omnipotence spirit or don't we?
As far as the Apocrypha goes, this is just a side-step to ignore the corrupt verses I included, which, you did not respond to. The Apocrypha was always understood by Christians of that day that it was not a canonized book and, therefore, it was advised to read in private, to not preach from it. I believe, the Lord allowed it for a while to help separated the wheat (Protestantism) from the chaff (Catholicism). It is still in their bible.
The example I gave in Rev. 13:8 is just one of a myriad of ridiculous to serious changes the new versions, written by man, are riddled with. I know you probably won't', but if you were to do a comparison of even just a few of the over 200 new English versions available today, you would understand this belief and see the differences yourself. You can get a list of the particular verses to compare online. You don't have to pay any attention to what is said about these changes, just get the list of verses and versions and compare them yourself. I really hope you haven't done this already, and are still promoting the new versions?
I hope we can have continued discussions other then this one. I enjoy reading your comments. God Bless :)
At least we can agree that many modern translations are spurious in part; some are clearly blasphemous or not well translated.
The other issue which I hate to bring up is that when more than one manuscript is mentioned (such as a few KJV mentions) there could be more than one case which is the inspired version; why can't the truth be slightly different in multiple manuscripts that each have a different part of it? Their own comments vary from saying there is another mansucript that may be equally valid or one that is likely NOT valid originally. We can't prove of course an earlier version HAS to be the correct one as again they are hundreds of years removed from the original texts. This does happen; at times for context. Personally I spend some time reading a lengthy dissertation of NIV as to its errors. I'm not as familiar with other stuff.
Since we are in a checkmate situation discussing this subject; I will say that we need to consider carefully if we are going to disfellowship with other believers who have a different translation. Many major topics have a similar enough meaning in different versions (I could mention the New King James which may have English more understandable as we speak today). As to what churches we attend that is up to us but those who show fruit of true faith I would think we should choose battles wisely. Also that goes for those who may read the version we approve of but have no evidence of saving faith.
So anyway not to belabor the point. I'll leave it up to you how to deal with others with this issue.
Actually the Dead Sea Scrolls include many of the Apocrypha or as others call them Deuterocanonical Books. A bit less than half of the books found there are from the Apocrypha.
Also in the New Testament, in the epistle of Jude we can find stories from books that both Christians and Jews rejected as fake. One is the incident about Moses' dead body and the other the incident with Enoch. Both of those stories can not be found in the Bible. That shows that at that time things were a bit fluid and since there wasn't any canon established yet, people were reading all sort of religious books. That is why those Apocrypha were included in the Septuagint which means that they were read by Jews at that time. A lot later both Christians and Jews canonised their scriptures.
I agree with your application of 2 Timothy 3:16 and your use of the term "God breathed," as the phrase "inspiration of God" is one Greek word that means God breathed. This would include scripture that was in existence prior to 1611. I also agree that defining the word infallible is helpful.
I do not believe that any bible translation is infallible, including the KJV. In order to claim infallibility of any translation, we would also have to believe that the men involved in the translation process of whatever bible we choose to read were themselves infallible. No man (Christ being the exception) has ever been, or ever will be infallible, therefore, whatever translation put forth by man cannot be an infallible translation. The KJB translators never claimed infallibility for themselves nor their translation.
I'll probably take some heat from some on this forum for disagreeing with the infallibility of our English bible (all versions included), but first let me say that I am in no way discrediting the KJB. The KJB is my bible of choice when I study, not because I believe it is perfect, but because I believe it to be (one) of the better translations available.
There are other translations that can be trusted, although none are perfect. In order to make such a claim, one would have to take whatever version they choose, do a word-by-word comparison with the Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic to confirm the infallibility of the translators. Other than that, we have to go off blind faith to claim infallibility of any version. I am not a King James Only believer and I would never judge another believer on what bible they choose to read or what church they attend. That is between them and the Lord. Richard, thank you so much for the things you share. You are a blessing to many, I'm sure. God Bless!!!
Mark 16:61-72 Simon Peter denied Christ before the maid who kept the door of the chief priest's palace. "Now Peter sat without in the palace: and a damsel came unto him, saying, Thou also wast with Jesus of Galilee (Matt.26-69)". In the darkness Simon Peter's voice betrayed him. 'Surely thou also art one of them; for thy speech bewrayeth thee (v.73)'. Voice carries much more significance than the mere sound of it. The words that Jesus spoke was not his own. 'He who hears me hears who sent me ( Luke 10:16). Simon Peter forsook all in order to become his disciple. In denying Christ he was also denying the voice of the Lord he heard. Principle of Association (Matt.10:40).
Voice recognition of a Christian is in the way truth in his inward parts matches with his action. Voice of the Lord is dealing with the living word and it is to bring out the full potential of man. It is truth written in his inward parts that places his words and actions in harmony. (1 Co.14:7)
(See under B-betray)
She was a Philistine woman who caused the mighty Samson to fall. (Jud.16:4-20) Since then she remains the epitome of the 'strange woman' set down in the Book of Proverbs. Of what worth was 'Nazirite'vows of Samson to her? Profane love of an adulterous woman is like the apostate church espousing the doctrine of man rather than of Christ.
Secondly she was not herself free anymore than world is. She was driven by her Philistine masters as an apostate church belabors under Satan so activism is no more than serving the political taskmasters. The cause may be pro-Life and anti-abortion but in the end it works out to be the same.
Joseph was the first son born to Rachel, and the eleventh son of Jacob. The name Joseph signified May God add to me another (Ge.30:24). Rachel meant thereby to imply that the name was drawing attention not for itself but something looking to future. Joseph is by all accounts is a double of Jesus. For example we have the sons of Jacob selling their brother to the Ishmaelite-Midianite caravan for 20 pieces of silver. Consider Jesus was betrayed for 30 pieces, which of course is higher in value that owes to exchange rates of the time. "And they (chief priests) covenanted with him (Judas Iscariot) for thirty pieces of silver (Mt.26:15)"Jesus came unto his own, and his own received him not(Jn.1:11). The sibling whom his brethren sold became their saviour at the time of famine. God raised Joseph from death and gave him a name above every other name.
'Our bodies as a temple' is an idea and it is valid because of the everlasting covenant. 'A body has thou prepared me' refers to the Lamb of God and tabernacle of God as a house. Our individual covenant by blood has also antecedent in the slain Lamb before the foundation of the world. All these owe to the everlasting covenant between God and Jesus Christ representing all believers forever sanctified.
The will of God is complete so the Now connects with us in time and place. For this reason names of people and persons are interchangeable because "All things were created by him, and for him:/And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."(Col.1:15-17). So when God sent his word before the worlds began it was meant to succeed. "So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it." The same word has a logos principle (See under P-principle). Thus the Word becoming flesh has its own profile. It explains the fulness of time.
Predestination in simple terms is stated in the Abstract. (Ge.1:27-28) God blessed man and made him a steward of His creation. In this MOU between God and Man whosoever adopted into the Fellowship is according to the everlasting covenant. So the eternal word included him to which time and place are of no consequence.
In the divine Will we examine the Father Son relationship which has consequences. As St Paul speaks of 'the good pleasure of his will' so adoption is intended for the glory of his grace, "wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved." Grace and truth came by Jesus Christ signifying the doctrine of God as doable. It is thus eternal aspect of Holiness we see through the prism of the Son. Abiding in him our adoption is conformed in Jesus Christ. (Ep.1:3-5)
Compare the analogy made by writer to the Hebrews, "(Levi) payed tithes in Abraham./ For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him." (7:9-10)*. We were dead in sins by the same account when the emblem of the slain Lamb was created in heaven.
Predestination was set rolling when God set forth the decree Ps.2:7-8) and accordingly we were all foreknown. Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and forever. (He.13:8) The testimony of Jesus Christ. (Re.3:12-13)
In order to understand fully the concept of predestination we have to examine why St Paul was ' apprehended of Jesus Christ. (Ph. 3:7-12)
"Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus."
Predestination of God is often brought to more clarity by use of persons so that the Promise of God to Abraham ("all families") are represented simultaneously. How does one do it but in terms of Time as reconstituted by the Spirit? We have two instances of Jesus and Joseph historically divided in time and place.
In the Abstract we have God blessing His creation. (Ge.1:20-22) In the light of the above here we have St Peter making a distinction as to what kosher is and what is not.
"And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat./ But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean."(Ac.10:13-14) In the vision of Simon Peter at Joppa, his Jewish mindset proved daunting. So the voice came second time and third time. But the voice made the point:' What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.' The Spirit is specific and the number Three, -a command number mentioned above is for instruction: the Son has cleansed with his blood such ceremonial defilement stipulated in the Law of Moses. ( 1 John 1:7)
Jesus during his earthly ministry pointed where defilement could occur:"But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man./For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:/These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.(Matt.15:18-20).
In this context to the pure everything is pure. (Ti.1:15). This purity is not imposed from outside by sheer will but in being at rest, letting Jesus who lives in the believer at rest too, so whatever he does is for the glory of God. "If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen." (1 Pe.4:11)
" For the Lord hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation./ This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it."/ King David blesses the nation with these words, "The Lord that made heaven and earth bless thee out of Zion." This is the highway a child of God carves out by abiding in Christ. He produces fruits for glory and honour of God who blessed him before the worlds began.(Ep.1:4)
When Hannah sings, "Pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and he hath set the world upon them (1 Sa.2:8)," she was referring to his sovereignty. The spiritual foundation of a Christian instructs him how to walk with God.. Our case as to our future is no different from of Abraham. (He.11:9)" It is a pilgrim's progress when he begins and ends it is with Him. Where are we going? Like the patriarch we look for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God(v.10)"
In this context we shall appreciate v.1, "I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help. This city is founded on the Rock of Ages." It is heavenly so the degree of ascents refers to our transition from the world of the flesh to 'the heavenly places'. (Col.3:1-3)
A title given to fifteen psalms from 120 to 134 inclusive of which four are attributed to King David and one to his son Solomon. There were three appointed feasts namely Passover, Pentecost and Tabernacles. By tradition pilgrims expressing their joy in going up to Jerusalem would have sung. There are 15 songs in this series and each psalm may correspond to the step leading a pilgrim.
Historically the children of Israel showed that they moved on their bellies in the wilderness. How often did they grumble against Moses and Aaron? (Ex.16:3) They would have stoned them and they despised manna, which God gave. He fed them with angel's food. Yet what was their cry? "And said, Who shall give us flesh to eat?"(Nu.11:4-5) God sent them quails, which gives us a revealing glimpse as to why they stopped short from doing the commandments with their heart and soul. Their rebellious spirit brought cancer to their souls since they would not worship God, a Spirit in spirit and truth. "And he gave them their request; but sent leanness into their soul.(106:15). A wasting disease nevertheless.
These are examples and left for 'our admonition upon whom the ends of the world are come'. In short the Spirit warns us to search our hearts well as we are pilgrims and sojourners even as they. The Spirit of Christ revealed to Prophet Elisha what motivated his servant, "And he said unto him, Went not mine heart with thee, when the man (Naaman) turned again from his chariot to meet thee? Is it a time to receive money, and to receive garments, and olive-yards, and vineyards, and sheep, and oxen, and menservants, and maidservants? (2 Ki.5:26)
" For the Lord hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation./ This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it."/
6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
May we humble ourselves before the LORD GOD and worship HIM in truth and in spirit. FATHER, we need YOUR hand on our nation and our leaders. Thank YOU LORD for answering our prayers.
January 18, 2024
Thank you for your thoughts and prayers. That really blesses me to know you are lifting me up in prayer. My thyroid ultrasouond showed that there are now two small nodules and that I should do a follow up ultrasound in a year. I go to the rheumatologist on Tuesday and he will evaluate why my white blood cell count is high in three of the five types of white blood cells.
Our home restoration from the pipe leak is coming along well. The flooring goes in this week as well as installing the new shower pan, walls, and doors. Then the flooring in the bathroom will be done and the vanity and toilet reset. In the other bath, the tub surround will be installed next and then the flooring, then the vanity and toilet resetting.
We spent this weekend painting rooms that will be refloored this week as some of the job is not insurance related but makes sense to do at this time. So doing the painting ourselves will save money for us. We are waiting to hear back from the adjuster to see if repainting the ceiling in the area we painted the walls will be covered since we noticed a few water spots appearing in the ceiling. Must have begun to show up as the ceiling dried. If the insurance will cover the painting, then we will have the worker remove the popcorn ceiling first and then texture and paint. The removal of the popcorn ceiling and texturing will be on us to pay for. But at least the painting may be paid for by insurance. We are faring well with all the "stuff" this involves. And it is really pleasing to me to get these things done that needed to be done decades ago when we first moved in 30 years ago.
I am thankful for the inheritance I received from my Mom when she passed almost two years ago. It will pay for what we will be doing as upgrades in this project. We will still have enough to continue to remodel all of the downstairs. So very blessed by her and thankful!
Pnovello, again, thank you for your care for me. Let me know how I can pray for you also.
Thanks for sharing your needs with me. I will be praying for you as you adjust with the loss of your daughter. So sad. But we are both "in the Lord" "under the shelter of His wings" and He "rejoices over us with singing", so how good is it to know the Lord Jesus, our Savior and the Father, the Almighty, and the Holy Spirit, the ever present help in times of trouble.
I, too, go to the internet to find out more about medical matters that pertain to me or a loved one. It helps me to have a better understanding of what is going on and what rests and findings mean. Since I have not had any illness or infection in the last year, it is interesting that my white blood cell count is so high. But in chronic inflammation can do this also, and I have arthritis and a rare condition called Behcet's that involves inflammatory reactions in vascular structures (veins, arteries and organs that are highly vascular (kidneys, heart, lungs) so hopefully the Dr. will do a thorough workup. Maybe will need an MRI or Cat Scan to see if something can be found that is causing my body to attack itself.
I will be praying for you often Patricia. You are going through a lot and it really hurts to lose a child no matter what age they are. May you be blessed today as you rest in God in all your comings and goings.
Intentional misleading of another, classic example of which was practiced by the serpent on Eve; similarly we have another example and when done it leads the simple away from path of life. "For the lips of a strange woman drop as an honeycomb, and her mouth is smoother than oil:/ But her end is bitter as wormwood, sharp as a two-edged sword./ Her feet go down to death; her steps take hold on hell." (Pr.5:3-5) Instead of heart fortified with faith the simple go by appearances and are led astray. For this reason Jeremiah spoke of the destructive power heart could wield. "Heart is deceitful or treacherous and who shall know it" except by the light of knowledge of the word? (Je.17:9) God does not tempt anyone but desires let grow can prove irresistible. (Jas.1:14) Satan is the deceiver who is the father of lies. "He that hateth dissembleth with his lips, and layeth up deceit within him;/ When he speaketh fair, believe him not: for there are seven abominations in his heart./ Whose hatred is covered by deceit, his wickedness shall be shewed before the whole congregation." The number seven is a tag by the Spirit. Totally given over to defraud others
On the other hand we have this testimony of the Spirit, of the Son "Nor was any deceit in his mouth."(Is.53:9) Ministry of St Paul was to present the Bride as a chaste virgin to Christ. (2 Co.11:2) The strange woman as depicted in the Book of Proverbs invariably refers to apostate church whose heart has departed from the Lord God. "And the adulteress woman will hunt for the precious life." (Pr.6:26b)
"For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself; first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear." ( Mark 4:28)
Here we have a variation of the fruit-bearing tree with 'seed in itself' stated in the Abstract that shall never change. This is part of MOU between God and Man.(Ge.1:11) Any abrogation of the terms would be self-defeating since it the Law or the Word that is on the line. God cannot deny himself. It is His holiness.
The earth abides forever because it signifies the Son in the divine Will and a day is decreed for him and at the end of it there shall be gathering in sheaves. In the Parable of the Tares, we have this "and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."(Matt.13:30)
There is a time lapse which explains the principle of Similitude where realities of heaven is compared with that of the earth. There is a variation also in the yield. In terms of Isaac blessings of God is converted in terms of yield. "Then Isaac sowed in that land, and received in the same year an hundredfold: and the LORD blessed him."(Ge.26:12) Cf. "But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold."(Matt.13:8) How come such variations though God created all hearts alike He tests their works and find their faith is not alike.(Ps.33:15) It is what the King's dream was all about.
(Dan.2:28-45)
Either we gather with Christ Jesus or we scatter which is what we find with the miry clay. Those who mixed God's word with doctrine of men "and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them." There is no place for them. It is what God does to the tares. Megachurches mean nothing; neither does it mean anything because the apostate church backed the winner. What shall they do when the rock hits them?
While we study the Bible we need keep in mind the Pauline dictum , "All things were created by him, and for him:/And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."(Col.1:16-17) It is true in the episode where God put to silence all murmurers over the Levitical priesthood. 'By him(Jesus Christ) all things consist' so Moses is set down as a double for the Son. In rebelling against him they were rebelling against the eternal word of God.
Predestination is not in the matter of time but is to be explained by the eternal Word of God and how it is worked out by the Son( by whom all things consist).God had earlier said why he was setting the rod of Aaron against others. "And it shall come to pass, that the man's rod, whom I shall choose, shall blossom: and I will make to cease from me the murmurings of the children of Israel, whereby they murmur against you." The man whom I shall choose" can only be in obedience to the MOU in the Abstract (Ge.1:11) The word of God is in the heart so our fruits can only be by abiding in the true Vine. We are all branches considering 'the fruit in itself' and part of the Son. He was the word become flesh.
So the episode of Aaron goes beyond what it literally seems to indicate. The rod blossomed because it belonged to one God had chosen. Predestination therefore must be understood as mentioned earlier not in the context of time but in light of 'the Word which was God' and the Son of man who triumphed over death.
The tabernacle of witness in the wilderness held mercy seat in the holies indicating God among us. Instead of God an angel of the Lord shall go before them. . However God has made it clear, 'for I will not go up in the midst of thee.' God did not allow Moses to see his glory indirectly. Significance of the cleft in the rock is same as God sending 'the angel of his presence' instead, fulfillment of which was in the Advent of the Son.
Which means the highest, purest, most perfect, supreme manifestation, example, incarnation, type of the essence of something, the express image.
Jesus is the quintessential expression of God.
Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of His glory, and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on High."
Colossians 2:9 "For in Him dwelleth ALL the fullness of the Godhead bodily"
John 14:9 "Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip?
He that hath seen me hath seen the Father,, and how saith though then: Show us the Father?
Jesus is God in the flesh. He is the Son of the Father eternally and one with the Father and the Holy Spirit. The Godhead is three Persons in one Godhead. Not three gods, but one. Jesus became man to save us and to show us a fleshy person of the Godhead, that is in union with the Godhead as the Word made flesh. Jesus is the perfect manifestation of true God. There is no other who can truly and perfectly represent God to us. Jesus is the only one who came from within the Godhead to earth to live as a man for us. The Holy Spirit is the only Spirit who came from within the Godhead to come to live in us. When Jesus came to earth, the Father and the Spirit were in Him yet still separate Persons from Him. And when the Holy Spirit lives in us, the Father and the Son lives in each of us, yet are still separate Persons. There are not multiple Fathers and Sons and Holy Spirits inhabiting every believer that every has lived. There is only one. God who is everywhere present all the time and specifically present in every believer. This is a mystery, but it is real and true. God has told us so in His Word that is truly true.
In heaven, if Jesus is the only one we see of the Godhead, we will truly be seeing the Godhead.
Answer:
"In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee." Isaiah 54:14 KJV
The LORD is redeemer . For I am holy to recieve the gift and gifts of men. Oppression, terror shall not prosper and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn.
"Surely men of low degree are a vapour, Men of high degree are a lie; If they are weighed on the scales, They are altogether lighter than vapour."(Ps.62:9-NKJV)
A degree marks ascent or descent in matter of development. It is a sign for the faithless nation in their perpetual backsliding. In extending the life of King Hezekiah the sundial showed something else. It went backwards, "And Hezekiah answered, "It is an easy thing for the shadow to go down ten degrees; no, but let the shadow go backward ten degrees."/ So Isaiah the prophet cried out to the LORD, and He brought the shadow ten degrees backward, by which it had gone down on the sundial of Ahaz.(2 Ki.2:20-8-11-NKJV).
"So the last shall be first, and the first," Jesus warned. Here we have a saying of Jesus that is built of chiastic structure. The Spirit instructs from the life of Hezekiah how the word of God works. The birth of Manasseh and his evil rein was consequential for Israel to be cast off as an apostate nation. Time is what the word of God shall make of the predetermined will of God.
In general then we have an infallible scripture in the KJV which God also used an "infallable" means of preservation through the oral and later written texts through that time for the 1611 version except for the Apocrypha that was in some versions. It was first removed in 1666 apparently overseas but not until the 1800s in our nation so until then that part was NOT infallable.
I won't attempt to go on anymore at this point. This certainly shouldn't dissuade you from the KJV or your faith; but also of course you shouldn't say it is the ONLY version that has any truth and should see some other versions on occasion for clearer or alternative meanings of text. Only John Himself may know whether the woman caught in adultery actually occured; I see no reason to doubt it at least close to what is written.
Defining the word infallible is helpful. As to what the Catholics consider the Pope to have (and indeed if he WERE keeping the doctrine that Peter himself had as the so called first Pope) that is the standard I am using here. In other words in terms of doctrine he is claimed to be infallible; not to his so called "ex cathedra" statements. These extra sections such as the story between the end of chapter 7 and beginning of 8 in John about the woman caught in adultery involve no doctrinal statement as I said before. We see parts of Enoch mentioned in scripture which indicate that what is mentioned in that snippet (in Jude I think) IS the truth as to what the book originally said; but other parts are not so clear. I believe we are missing parts of some of it as well; but since the whole book isn't in the Bible God in His Providence used men such as those that screened the KJV to preserve His Word and remove spurious writings.
Just a couple of examples.
Rev. 13: 8 KJB "And I beheld, and heard an ANGEL (my emphasis) flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!"
NIV "As I watched, I heard an EAGLE that was flying in midair call out in a loud voice: "Woe! Woe! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the trumpet blasts about to be sounded by the other three angels!"
Mark 15: 28 NIV omits this verse which speaks of a prophecy of the Messiah being fulfilled by Jesus. This dilutes the deity of Christ.
Luke 4:8 KJB "And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve."
NIV Jesus answered, 'It is written: 'Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.' " Again, dilutes the deity of Christ and His power to rebuke satan.
God Bless :)
First; again we need to understand that the KJV was closest to the OLDER renditions of Geneva and Tyndale. Again the earliest edition in 1611 had the Apocrypha which was NOT inspired for 50 years or so and in this country apparently until the mid 1800s.
I will state that it is infallable as to doctrinal matters. For instance all but one or two books are in the Dead Sea scrolls from the 66 in our Bible; but other extrabiblical stuff was left out. We cannot say the same for a few words different (even KJV will state that one manuscript is slightly different as an option in it's own commentary and there may be a couple other cases when other manuscripts have a section present or missing.) When one manuscript is chosen over another there MAY be a clear indication error occurred but in other cases we can't say other versions are wrong either.
Finally; the issue in Revelation is adding new scripture AFTER Revelation or deliberately adding or subtracting from Revelation in particular but also indicating not doing violence deliberately to scripture after the Word is complete post Revelation. Such a manipulation is CLEAR in things such as the Passion Translation and the versions that cults have (such as the Jehovah's Witness Bible). That is different than say a historical statement (which BTW is needed to understand the Feast of Dedication which Jesus celebrated (i.e. Hanukkah) which is NOT in either Testament of the Bible except there and to understand it we need to read from nonbiblical sources. Facts can be scriptural or nonscriptural as God uses all things for His glory.
One can argue that God wouldn't allow error in numbers taken in a census or other like statistics but discrepancies appear to exist even within different passages in KJV which again usually can be explained with the details missing or added in another section.
Thanks for taking time to read this.
Agape.
"I will state that it is infallable as to doctrinal matters ..... When one manuscript is chosen over another there MAY be a clear indication error occurred but in other cases we can't say other versions are wrong either." You don't seem to understand or else believe that when God canonizes His word it is in a righteous and complete way. God doesn't do this so that some parts are right and some wrong so they need to be corrected, added too or erased according to man's arrogance. If we can't trust all of it we
can't trust any of it. Do we trust and have faith in God's omniscience and omnipotence spirit or don't we?
As far as the Apocrypha goes, this is just a side-step to ignore the corrupt verses I included, which, you did not respond to. The Apocrypha was always understood by Christians of that day that it was not a canonized book and, therefore, it was advised to read in private, to not preach from it. I believe, the Lord allowed it for a while to help separated the wheat (Protestantism) from the chaff (Catholicism). It is still in their bible.
The example I gave in Rev. 13:8 is just one of a myriad of ridiculous to serious changes the new versions, written by man, are riddled with. I know you probably won't', but if you were to do a comparison of even just a few of the over 200 new English versions available today, you would understand this belief and see the differences yourself. You can get a list of the particular verses to compare online. You don't have to pay any attention to what is said about these changes, just get the list of verses and versions and compare them yourself. I really hope you haven't done this already, and are still promoting the new versions?
I hope we can have continued discussions other then this one. I enjoy reading your comments. God Bless :)
The other issue which I hate to bring up is that when more than one manuscript is mentioned (such as a few KJV mentions) there could be more than one case which is the inspired version; why can't the truth be slightly different in multiple manuscripts that each have a different part of it? Their own comments vary from saying there is another mansucript that may be equally valid or one that is likely NOT valid originally. We can't prove of course an earlier version HAS to be the correct one as again they are hundreds of years removed from the original texts. This does happen; at times for context. Personally I spend some time reading a lengthy dissertation of NIV as to its errors. I'm not as familiar with other stuff.
Since we are in a checkmate situation discussing this subject; I will say that we need to consider carefully if we are going to disfellowship with other believers who have a different translation. Many major topics have a similar enough meaning in different versions (I could mention the New King James which may have English more understandable as we speak today). As to what churches we attend that is up to us but those who show fruit of true faith I would think we should choose battles wisely. Also that goes for those who may read the version we approve of but have no evidence of saving faith.
So anyway not to belabor the point. I'll leave it up to you how to deal with others with this issue.
Actually the Dead Sea Scrolls include many of the Apocrypha or as others call them Deuterocanonical Books. A bit less than half of the books found there are from the Apocrypha.
Also in the New Testament, in the epistle of Jude we can find stories from books that both Christians and Jews rejected as fake. One is the incident about Moses' dead body and the other the incident with Enoch. Both of those stories can not be found in the Bible. That shows that at that time things were a bit fluid and since there wasn't any canon established yet, people were reading all sort of religious books. That is why those Apocrypha were included in the Septuagint which means that they were read by Jews at that time. A lot later both Christians and Jews canonised their scriptures.
I agree with your application of 2 Timothy 3:16 and your use of the term "God breathed," as the phrase "inspiration of God" is one Greek word that means God breathed. This would include scripture that was in existence prior to 1611. I also agree that defining the word infallible is helpful.
I do not believe that any bible translation is infallible, including the KJV. In order to claim infallibility of any translation, we would also have to believe that the men involved in the translation process of whatever bible we choose to read were themselves infallible. No man (Christ being the exception) has ever been, or ever will be infallible, therefore, whatever translation put forth by man cannot be an infallible translation. The KJB translators never claimed infallibility for themselves nor their translation.
I'll probably take some heat from some on this forum for disagreeing with the infallibility of our English bible (all versions included), but first let me say that I am in no way discrediting the KJB. The KJB is my bible of choice when I study, not because I believe it is perfect, but because I believe it to be (one) of the better translations available.
There are other translations that can be trusted, although none are perfect. In order to make such a claim, one would have to take whatever version they choose, do a word-by-word comparison with the Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic to confirm the infallibility of the translators. Other than that, we have to go off blind faith to claim infallibility of any version. I am not a King James Only believer and I would never judge another believer on what bible they choose to read or what church they attend. That is between them and the Lord. Richard, thank you so much for the things you share. You are a blessing to many, I'm sure. God Bless!!!