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  • Chris - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Apologies to all. In my first paragraph I had not corrected my initial wording, 'of the Nature of God', when I substituted it here with 'God's Nature' but omitted removing the article preceding it. That's a nasty error & I need to go slower in my revisions.
  • Adam - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Great point. That must have been utterly shocking, terrifying, and maybe humiliating for Saul / Paul to hear Jesus like that.
  • Chris - In Reply - 2 months ago
    That's a great point & Scripture ( Acts 9:5) brother S. Spencer & thanks for it. That is indeed a very telling encounter that Saul had. He asked, Who art thou, Lord? Saul was confused. He didn't refer to that Voice as God nor any other divine being, but used 'Kyrie', a title given in this instance, of 'respect or reverence to someone of distinction'. So, we see Saul, on his way to massacre these Christians & probably fuming through his teeth all through his journey there, suddenly falling to his knees in respect, hearing this voice from above calling him by name and asking why he was being persecuted. We can hardly imagine the thoughts & conflicts that Saul must have been going through. Not the least of which, 'there is only one God in Heaven, so who is this speaking?'

    And so the blinders on Saul fell off & his heart was made pliable. How? By hearing the Word of God & having a life-changing experience with the God He actually despised, by rejecting His Son. And so we can understand Paul's yearning in anguished prayer, "my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved." ( Romans 10:1-3). He longed for his people to have what he had received directly from the Risen Christ. And so it must be for all who would turn to Jesus for salvation: the Word must cut deep into their hearts & a mighty revelation received, that makes sin absolutely detestable & the Love of God & His Salvation absolutely craved for & treasured. Every blessing brother & thank you for your posts - always read & well received.
  • Adam - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Powerful.
  • Adam - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Thank you Chris for that substantive answer.
  • Bennymkje - 2 months ago
    Re.12:5 "Israel in wilderness" (2 of 2)

    "Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself."(Ex.19:4;De.32:11) Moses refers to the will of God the Father. In the testimony of Jesus Christ grace and truth the two wings refer to the Son who shall judge. "and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation." Third and fourth generation stand in context of the generation of Jesus Christ. God assured that their iniquities shall be visited,"because ye are turned away from the Lord, therefore the Lord will not be with you."(Nu.14:43)

    Now Israel is allowed to await her comeuppance.

    "When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the Lord shall lift up a standard against him."(Is.59:19)The beast making his appearance in Ch.13 has authority for 42 months, same as 1260 days. Time times and a half is another way of referring to Jesus Christ. When the enemy comes like a flood the Spirit shall raise an ensign. The flood in these verses refer the conspiracy theories and disinformation. " And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood./ And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth."(vv.15-16)

    1260,42 and 'the time, times and a half' ,-The tags the Spirit uses in order to establish the truth of the fulness in Christ is a characteristic of the testimony of Jesus. "All things were created by him, and for him:/ And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."(Col.1:16-17,19)
  • Bennymkje - 2 months ago
    Re. 12:5 (1 of 2)

    "And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne."

    Man child is evidently Jesus Christ and we see the fulfillment of God's promise. "Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession./Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel."(Ps.2:8-9). God's Will in the Book of the Revelation shows the first rider on the white horse riding out , "And a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."(6:2). We see him here,"And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war."(19:11) The time lapse between the two is only God shall know. Interpreting time despite of it shows a reprobate mind. The two events however hang on the Lamb, "And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain," This is same vision given to Daniel who sees it in terms of the Will of the Father while what John sees it as the angel who has the testimony of Jesus Christ. This is a crucial point. The last book as 'envoi' of the entire Salvation Saga is from the Son. ("And he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John).

    The woman in the wilderness consequently is Israel left out and the period mentioned is tagged by Holy Spirit. 1260 has nothing to do with papacy or any other but the fact that she is left aside. "And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent."(v.14). It is fulfillment of "and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself."(Ex.19:4)
  • Bennymkje - 2 months ago
    "Command Numbers"

    The Bible is the God document to which the role of man is limited to the man the Spirit has chosen to serve as amanuensis. All glory is to God and not in KJV or any translation which is like the 'golden calf' set up the manner it is handled about. This forum being specific, courtesy requires to follow KJV as far as possible, though there is no value if the user has no heart to examine beyond the surface to the intent of the Spirit. I see so many in this forum going round and round, -what else could have the five blind men of Benares do when presented with an elephant?, and it is simply a fool's business to think it will edify any.

    Leaving aside let us look at the manner the Spirit has rendered the Scripture for our spiritual growth.

    Command numbers serve to make the realities of heaven and of the earth distinct and easier to follow.

    Here is an example: "The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven./ As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly." (1 Co.15:47-48) Jesus Christ as the Lord from heaven is the same. But as the Word become flesh "for the things concerning me have an end." Without which the Word cannot called perfect. He has to fulfill the scriptures. As a result in his all things consist and the three and a half year is used by the Spirit to set all events on the earth. The power given to the beast sets him as the son of Perdition as Satan is set as his adversary. 1260 days or Three and a half year is the scale to set all earth events. 42 months the beast shall lord over and shall be cut off. Elisha was jeered by 42 because Elisha is set down in the narrative as a double for Jesus.(2 Ki.2:23-25) Three sets of genealogies in Matt 1 of 14 generations each.(v.7) Earthly ministry of Jesus has another half an hour in heaven. (Re.8:1) Total 4 is the command number for the Word become flesh in heaven. It governs the four cardinal directions
  • Bennymkje - 2 months ago
    "Significance of numbers"

    Tags are used in the case of command as well as to indicate the fullness of Jesus Christ. Expressions like "unto this day" 'on that day" forever" etc., are tags. "I have hallowed this house, which thou hast built, to put my name there for ever."(1 Ki.9:3)

    The name of the Father is holiness of the Gospel, which is one. (One Lord , one faith-Ep.4:5).

    The Son has a command number, which is Three. The Word made flesh makes his command number Four.

    The Number Five is with respect the Son and all souls given "As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him."( John 17:2) The principle of Association is applied to man in terms of his earthly circumstances. Thus his ox is counted as five. For this reason in the Law we have God commanding Moses, "If a man shall steal an ox, or a sheep, and kill it, or sell it; he shall restore five oxen for an ox, and four sheep for a sheep".(Ex.22:1)

    What does the Jubilee (5x10) signify? The land belongs to God and the glory of the land is in harmony with the glory of the Son as heir to all things. With the jubilee year the land is to be left fallow. This rest signified rest that is promised to saints redeemed from earth.

    1260 days of the ministry of Jesus is reckoned as baseline so both the Lord from heaven and the Son of man serves as a scale.

    In the Parable of the Five Wise virgins and Five Foolish virgins where the command number is Ten, indicating the Will of God. (Matt.25:1-13)

    (See entry under T-Ten commandments)

    The virgins were redeemed from the world and they would have died to sin with taking baptism by water. They were to do the perfect will of God, which was their reasonable service. The Foolish five did no further in walking closer to the Lord. On the other hand the Five Wise virgins redeeming the times were evil did all to be kept from the ungodly ways. In short they followed the prompting of the indwelling Spirit.
  • Bennymkje - 2 months ago
    "Significance of Numbers"

    Command numbers are tags used by the Spirit to distinguish from numbers of numerical value.

    The Spirit in organizing the narrative of the Scripture uses numbers in a manner different from its normal use. Tags are different from command number.

    In the vision of The Woman Clothed with the Sun , the red dragon has ten horns which is a command number to indicate judgment as in the Decalogue. The Spirit indicates that the dragon has been already under judgment. (Re.12:4). The number 10 refers as a tag as in the measurement: an omer is one tenth of an ephah (Ex.16:36). To indicate man's life multiples of 10 serve as tag. Similarly the Spirit intends a generation by 10x10 or 10x100 or 10x1000 to indicate end times. For example in the matter of gospel the command number is 12. Multiples of 12 in the upper room before the day of Pentecost held 120(1210) in number. On Mount Sion the number of first fruits are counted, 144,000. "And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads (Re.14:1)". Number 144,000 is a command number meaning the divine Will with regards to what constitutes first fruits (12x12x1000).

    Forty days indicate time imposed on man in preparation for fulfilling divine Will. "Moses was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant-the Ten Commandments (Ex.34:28-NIV). On the other end Jesus Christ was seen after resurrection for forty day before he ascended to the heavens.(Ac.1:3)

    'And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us ( John 1:14). This testimony is number 4. Number 4 has significance in terms of the world that is set on four cardinal directions. (Re.7:1) Salvation is thus in terms of four gospels and the judgement aspect as in the vision of the four carpenters, - Ze.1:20.
  • Bennymkje - 2 months ago
    Ge.1:14-18 "The lights" (2 of 2)

    Israel in the wilderness

    "where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days." (12:6) The number is a tag for the earthly ministry of Jesus Christ. By the token power given to the beast works out to 42 months. ("And power was given unto him to continue forty and two months."-13:5). By literal approach the modern churches are blind to the heresies and in the political agenda they would accept the Israel despite of being cast off as reprobate. So we hear foolish arguments over Sabbath and the superiority of KJV. Fools cannot appreciate the Spirit's leading but must lay out as though the holiness of God is like a debating society and where does it lead? Nowhere and they end up as ignorant as when they begun.
  • Rainwalker - In Reply - 2 months ago
    fools for Christ's sake.. 1 Cor 4, perhaps you miss the "simplicity" of the gospel.By the way, that 1,260 year period was a time of great persecution to the people of God that wouldn't accept the papal instituted "religion". It is the same time, times and half time spoken of in Daniel. Your lack of prophetic "understanding" is showing. That part has already come to pass. This institution, the "image" will come back around, as we see in Revelation.
  • Bennymkje - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Hi Rainwalker,

    You write "Your lack of prophetic "understanding" is showing. I shall let that pass. "Answer not a fool according to his folly, Lest thou also be like unto him. Answer a fool according to his folly, Lest he be wise in his own conceit." Either way it does not matter as I hope to follow the leading of the Spirit than any opinion of man.
  • Rainwalker - In Reply - 2 months ago
    See thou a man wise in his own conceit, there is more hope of a fool than him Prov 26:12.. no "vitriol" intended by the way.
  • Bennymkje - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Hi rainwalker,

    I see no vitriol, Just a puddle of your own making. With Joy and Peace in Him,
  • Bennymkje - 2 months ago
    Ge.1:14-18 "The lights" (1 of 2)

    And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs" The lights as sign was in the divine Will.

    How does the Spirit set the will of the Father in Re.12:1 "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars." What does the crown of 12 stars? Gospel of God (The Word was God- John 1:1). The command number 12 refers to the Gospel of Christ and the 12 Associates (disciples.) Compare the seven stars in the hand of Jesus Christ in Re.1:20 ("The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches.") The Number 7 indicates the will of the Father is complete. So it is the Fellowship of God (the Ancient of days) and the Man (Christ) we are looking at.

    The Sun and the Moon to divide the day from the night. Their light is derived from divine command, "Fiat Lux!"

    "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day."(1:5)

    The first day denotes the first bullet point in the Abstract. It shall lead to a morning in the new heaven and the new day. (Re.21:1)

    2. "And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also."(Ge.1:16)

    The Holy Family figuratively a woman, standing on the moon reveals the obedience of the Son while the Son overhead is God the Father. The church has a body called to be holy. So she is clothed with the sun. Re.12:4 tells of another story. The Fall of man and the casting off Israel as a nation is stated thus, "And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth. " Israel is not part of the man child. And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne."

    Israel in the wilderness(12:6)
  • Jema - 2 months ago
    One last thought :) . The king James version is actually a translation , are any other modern versions actual translations ? Or have they just replaced some words with others ? If in doubt , look up the definition of the word ' translation ' .
  • Bennymkje - In Reply - 2 months ago
    We all have a past while God saw future in us. Growing under the rod and thumb of a stern father I know what it is having to give account for my days. So I bristled whenever my woman would want to know. Luckily it never showed up. I thought to myself, "I am a fool to reply to love as I did to my father, in defensive mode". God made me see difference so the stern attitude I learned now to apply where it require, So I would rather please God. Both ways I am content with love of being a husband and a son who ought to give glory to our Father which art in heaven. It is all how we look at things outside of ourselves. "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose."
  • Jema - In Reply - 2 months ago
    It's hard work shaking off those old chains :) . Our parents can load us with baggage but Christ takes it off us and shows us a better way , I'm glad he found you , I can't imagine what would have become of me if he hadn't dragged me out of the fire . He's worked wonders for you , keep up the good work .
  • Bennymkje - In Reply - 2 months ago
    In the 80s I woke up in the wee hours with a voice and a verse. Immediately I woke up and referred the passage, " And of Benjamin he said, The beloved of the Lord shall dwell in safety by him; and the Lord shall cover him all the day long, and he shall dwell between his shoulders."(De.33:12) I am the youngest son so named Benjamin. "And he shall dwell between his shoulders"I took it as "I am in his will." I have three other younger sisters. How did my father think that I' m the yougest son. But looking back I can see that I was foreknown. So let us say, each child of God shall find there was no coincidence or luck but His grace.

    On Dec.28 2021 while I dressed up for the day I heard a small voice prompting me to begin a dictionary, comparing the spiritual with spiritual. Straightaway I began the day with entries. OnMay 8,2022 I finished the entire work which since then went through editing and I took it up lately knowing that my work was not in void but blessed by the Lord. He that has begun a good work shall see to it whether I am still around or not. I have not put my name as the author since God is the author and finisher of it.
  • Jema - In Reply - 2 months ago
    May God continue to keep you busy :) .
  • GiGi - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Jema,

    To answer your question, most of the modern Bible editions are translations-meaning that the translators used texts that were written long before the present time. And these translations have been updated, edited and revised.

    The KJV used the Received Text which included about 7 manuscripts written in the middle ages-The Latin Vulgate, the Catholic priest, Erasmus' translation of the Vulgate into a Greek translation, the Masoretic Jewish OT text from the middle ages, and the codices from the Byzantine and Syrian sources. They also used the Septuagint at times. The KJV was revised probably about a dozen times since 1611.

    The Revised Version translation is a revision of the KJV where the translators went back to the same sources as the KJV. In the U.S. the American Standard Version was a re-translation of the KJV using the same sources as the KJV. These came out in the late 1800's.. Both the RV and ASV have been revised a few times since then now going by the Revised Standard Version and the New American Standard Version. These came out around the 1950's and 1960's.

    The New International Version is a translation using texts from codices Sinaiticus and Latin that are dated far earlier than the Received Tests the KJV used. Some of these codices date back to as early as 125. A.D. up to about 500 A.D. The translators used the Septuagint and also reviewed the Received Text as well. This translation came out in the 1970's and has been revised a few times since then.

    The New King James Version is a re-translation of the KJV using the same Received Texts and Masoretic Jewish OT texts as the KJV. I am not sure if this version used any of the documents that the NIV used that were newly discovered in the 1800 after the 1611 KJV was translated. The NKJV came out in the 1980's or 1990's.

    The English Standard Version also is a translation using the more recently discovered and older codices that the NIV used that date back much farther than the TR and MS.
  • GiGi - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Jema, It seemed to me like you were asking an honest question that I attempted to help answer. That's all. If you already know the information I presented, why ask the question you posed? Maybe I missed something.

    I think everyone on here knows that this is a site that hosts the KJV Bible to be read and offers a forum for people to share their biblical ideas. There is nowhere on this site that states that only the KJV can be discussed to the exclusion of any other translation. I think it is erroneous to insist that this is so. I also think that it does not promote peace among us when some insist on this site being something that it does not claim to be.

    Jema, I enjoy conversing with you when you do respond to me. I hope we can continue to do so even when we disagree on some things. I keep you in my prayers often along with most people that post here. What a blessed opportunity to intercede for one another!
  • Jema - In Reply - 2 months ago
    I haven't insisted that anyone do anything and I didn't realise that my posts were so provocative . This is a KJV site , so I merely reminded people that it's not unreasonable for people to expect this site to be KJV based . People should not be made to feel as if they are some how wrong in that expectation , given the fact that this site is called the King James Bible site . It's as simple as that . I'm done with talking in circles now and don't enjoy stating the obvious over and over again so I'm going to stop .
  • Jesse - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Jema,

    I am not sure what point you are trying to make concerning translations? Are you saying that we should only trust a bible that is a translation, and that any bible that is not a translation should not be trusted? Over the past few weeks, this topic seems to have been the most dominant topic for discussion. I only recently decided to comment on this and was hoping the discussions would move on to something more edifying. To be fair, you asked a question, so I would like to give an answer.

    The answer is yes, there are other English Bibles that have been produced after the KJB that are translations of the original languages. Should they be trusted? There have also been multiple King James versions produced since the original 1611.

    I think most would agree with you that the 1611 KJB is a translation as it was translated into English using the Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic texts available at that time. If you are referring to the 1611 KJB, your statement would be factual. However, all other KJB versions produced after 1611 are not translations but updated versions to correct the errors found in previous KJB versions. Should all other KJB versions be trusted if they are not translations? I ask this because I own a few different King James Bibles. I do not own a 1611.

    As you know, if you have followed any of my posts, I also, like you, read and study from the KJB even though I do not view it as being perfect. I guess I'm just trying to understand your point about the definition of the word translation when it comes to which bibles we should trust. Can you please elaborate?

    Thank you!
  • Jema - In Reply - 2 months ago
    As I've said to Gigi , I had no idea that my posts are so provocative , at least to a couple of people for sure . I'm sorry if I provoke you , I just say what I'm thinking at the time , I'm a spontaneous person and I don't sit and think about it or work out my posts before I post them . Maybe that's a fault in me but I'm just not that kind of person . I like spontaneous discussion , that's how I talk and that's how I post , straight from the heart to my mouth . That's how I like to discuss and I like spontaneous responses , from the heart not from a book ( unless it's the Bible ) or the internet etc . If my posts get on your nerves please just ignore me :) . I say what I think in the moment .
  • Jema - In Reply - 2 months ago
    I do admire your self control and determination :) , I wish I had some of those traits . Thanks for your great effort and interesting posts , keep it up please :) .
  • Jema - 2 months ago
    Sorry :) I have another comment about the KJV . I think the reason that many ascribe an almost mythical status to it is because , at the time it was commissioned , and even now I suppose , it would have been an enormous undertaking , costing a lot of money and time etc . Something that only someone with power and wealth would have been able to put in motion , this person happened to be a king , we have all read how God uses people , usually but not always , people with power and money to accomplish His desire and many people then and now , believed and still believe that kings are put in place by God , each person in life fulfills the perpose that God has assigned them . So , going by that logic , God used a king , that He Himself set up , in order to fulfill His purpose of bringing His Word to the masses . It seems quite a reasonable arguement to me , but it's one that I'm staying out of as of now :) .
  • Momsage - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Hi Jema: I hope you're doing well but I'd like to ask, Is it fair to make a statement and then run away? My belief that the KJB is the only true word, written by God not man ,is real and comes nowhere near mythical; (imaginary, fictious.) I really don't understand how any true believer can't grasp this truth. The Holy Spirit said what He had to say in 1611 and His inspiration doesn't need any help from man in these modern times. Man iis to busy so he believes in these new modern versions because he, for whatever reason, doesn't want to bother with 2 Tim. 2:15. In a sense he has crossed it out of his bible. These versions are a tool of the devil to distract man away from God. We should all be like the example God's word gives us in Psalm 1: 1-2. Just be sure that delight is in God's true word or you could be led astray by the lies of the devil in the NIV, NKJB, ESB, ASB, ETC. I have done an extensive comparison study on the lies these versions tell as a warning but I wonder if anyone will heed the warning.
  • Jema - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Hi Momsage , I haven't gone anywhere :) which statement of mine are you asking about ? Lots of people on here make statements , some I agree with and some I don't . I'm not the type who feels the need to discuss every little point , I respect people's right to their own opinion and even if I disagree with them I just don't always feel the need to discuss the point that I disagree with . My posts are a reflection of my personality I suppose :) . I'm a bit of a live and let live kind of person , most of the time :) . I learned a long time ago that the chances of me ever being able to change anyone's opinion about anything are almost nil , so I don't often try .


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