Also of course for your words, I will continue to do so. God Bless You! and I love you as Christ loved me. We must encourage each other, rebuke out of love and I let pride get in the way of my taking advice from others.
That's a nice visual: the calvary (angels) coming and kicking up dust. The Jewish historian, Josephus, who lived in the first century, wrote about people seeing angels and chariots in the Jerusalem sky in the years just prior to the Roman destruction.
That info is in : Flavious Josephus, The Wars of the Jews, 6.5.3
My hunch is you are spot on that the clouds represent the heavenly host of angels. Why would Jesus come alone? He is a great King and his angels would want to come with him for this momentous and wonderful occasion.
The following verse shows clearly what the ancient people believed it was universe, " "And every creature which is in heaven(sky), and on the earth(land), and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them,... "
2. My belief is that the Word is not literally the person God. But when God says a word, an order, a command, that is done. Not like doing magic, but it is the Spirit who brings in existence all that He commands.
3. Moses and Elijah appeared on that mountain talking to Jesus. Did they have to travel through the universe to be brought there? Here there maybe 2 cases.
a. Yes, with the speed of Spirit, ie in a split second,
b. No, since before Jesus' resurrection all people were down the deepest of earth, inside Hades, the righteous in Abraham's bosom and the unrighteous in Hell. So they were brought from underneath. Unless the position of Hades in the deepest of earth is something figurative and not literal and Hades exists somewhere else.
1. As I said before in Hebrew heaven and sky is the same word. Brother Ronald wrote a very good comment explaining that.
Now to understand what ancient people meant with heaven/sky we have to understand what they considered of universe at those times. When they looked around them all they could see was a land that was flat. They didn't know anything about planets, their shape, etc. They didn't know how long and wide that land was, some thought it was limitless, some thought after that imaginary limit only chaos exists, others that it was supported by some sort of foundations, etc. In Bible it says the 4 corners of earth, thus including every land (in Hbr and grk earth and land is the same word). When they looked up to the sky they saw a blue thing, the sky, with some lights (the sun, the moon, the stars) moving along and across the sky, in a circular mode, so they assumed there was something like a solid dome. They didn't know anything about planets, stars, they thought those were some sort of lights, as I said. They didn't know how far those lights were from the land, so they placed them at the edge of the sky. They had no idea what exists after the sky, like a place with no air, no gravity, etc. That was their universe, the land and the sky up. So when they used to read Genesis about the creation, the phrase "God created the earth/land and the sky/heaven" for them it was the whole universe. Just that, the land and the sky. They imagined that God should live in a place further away than that sky/heaven, so they placed God's residence somewhere above that dome. Today we say after the universe as we know it today, and this seems to be write, unless someome believes that God's spiritual world exists inside the universe but can not be seen. This is what they meant with the word "heaven", everything that was above the land they were walking on. They didn't distinguish between the material and the spiritual world. Heaven for themwas just the sky above
First of all thank you all for your words of uplifting encouragement! I let the devil put on pity party for me and doubted what I have learned. Yes I don't understand everything and sometimes even the questions I am asked and let pride take over. I love you all as Christ loved me.
Now latest discussions on Heaven. I take the Gen 1:1 literal as we all do, until it is not possible. Then it is a figurative truth. Is its literal in Psalms 75:6-7?
1st, 2nd, 3rd Heaven....1)I thought it was the sky, 2) was the part where there is no more air from there to the 3) Heaven itself. Where God is, has day and night. A better country, many mansions streets of gold. Temples and a Throne where God sits Jesus at His right.
In Psalms 75:6 6 For promotion cometh neither from the east, nor from the west, nor from the south.
7 But God is the judge: he putteth down one, and setteth up another. (God is in Heaven)
So Heaven is North? Could've said side to side or beneath but up.
And God Bless you for you words of kindness, encouragement. But tell me if I am wrong here, and I will take advice like I said before, and let the devil get at me. Ready for advice, because I wondered at this scripture myself, it is saying Heaven is literally north of Earth.
I also agree with you that Jesus was not born in December. You probably already know that he was most likely born in the fall. Sometime around the Feast of Tabernacles. There are several reasons for thinking this is true.
I just take it literal like we take Gen 1:1 literal, until it not possible, then its a figurative truth.
I feel much better, I let satan put me in pity party. But since age 5 I was raised in church until I turn my back on God at age 15. I just recently got back up. I was once in Church 6 days a week (Moose Factory Christian Academy of Education, Church services, boys and girls club until age 12 then its Youth Service Fridays. Of course we can do that and still not go to Heaven, its a day to day hour by hour second by second constant relationship with God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit.) In my suffering, I will rejoice anyways.
Love you as Christ loves us all, and Me. (Moose Factory, ON Canada is where I am from)
I am just trying to be FULL of FAITH by remaining faithFUL and obey Jesus commands as best I can. I pray my name is written in the book of life. If I am one that is left behind then so be it. God' judgement is just and righteous and I am without excuse.
The RIGHTEOUS dead are raised at the FIRST resurrection to eternal life. The UNRIGHTEOUSNESS dead are raised at the SECOND resurrection. They will face the judgement seat of Christ and then they will die eternally. Their soul will die.
Below, verse 24 emphasizes that 'once saved, always saved' is a dangerous lie. How many children were saved in Sunday school and assume, as adults ,they are saved. But, they don't give one thought to God as an adult and they do not pursue sanctification in their life. Anyway, the following scripture is from Ezekiel:
"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
But, if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes and do that which is right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? Saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
But when the righteous turn away from his righteousness, and committed iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All his righteousness that he has done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he has trespassed, and in his sin that he has sinned, in them shall he die." Ezekiel 18:20-24
The third heaven can be considered as the great congregation to which Jesus visited in his Spirit and preached, soul's in prison. "By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison."(1 Pe.3:19) Psalm 40:9-10 predicts this. "I have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O Lord, thou knowest."
Cloud of witnesses also form part of this heaven. (he.12:1) In short the Land of the living where these are alive and are in the presence of God. God is the God of the living and it is how we live two worlds at a time. "I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living." (Matt.22-32. Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God./For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven."(Matt.22:29)
We walk by faith. it applies to us so we run our race looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith. We live both worlds at the same time. Nothing less shall justify being a child of God. (Ro.8:14).
My recommendation to all the Christian who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, those using this online tool. Get yourself familiarise with the Hebrew and Greek languages of scripture (interlinear bible) and if By the grace of God Study both Languages
-In the Hebrew the word God and Heaven is revealed to us (Human-Beings) in Plural
-Elohim =GOD which singular Eloah and in Plural ELOHIM.
-Heaven= eshmim which is the heavens in Plural .
-Therefore, when you Read in Genesis 1:20 you will be confronted with this fact God says Let us which is in Plural Indicting One Yet Three in the Scriptures.
-Mind you this Fact is found All over the Scripture and it is written in 1 John 5:7, KJV
7.For there are three that bear record in heaven,
the Father, the Word, and
the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
(Time is at Hand we are living at the end of days.)
Repent of your sins and do not be deceive Amen.
ACT 2:38, KJV
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
We have clear exposition of the three heavens Up and Down in Re.4 and Re.5
" and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne." (4:2) "And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God."(v.3)
'thundering' explains the word of God sent forth. These encapsulate the Gospel of God and the earthly ministry of his Son. "and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices. In Re.110 vv.4-5 explains it, "And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not." The Gospel of Christ has been proclaimed so John was not to write them down. It is part of the everlasting gospel. "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people," (Re.14:6-7) Thrust of this is in v.7. John is set in the first heaven . Trinity is here. "And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind." the body, the seven Spirits of God and the soul is indicated by lightenings or the glory of the Son.
Principle of Similitude sets the firmament the sea of glass bear relationship with the sky.separating the waters above and below. Altar souls remind us of the martyrs resting for a season.
Third heaven is "And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever."(5:10)
These are set vertical from throne forming the apex to a base, a cone for ecample.
The clouds are symbolic of those that have come to truth, we were resurrected with Christ, the NEW CREATION, being made ONE with him, by his resurrection.
By the Word of GOD - the Word is GOD - self-executing, heavens are celestial environments in Christ that have nothing, but nothing, with the material space of Universe. You are confounding Heaven with Sky, so your interpretion of the Word of GOD is merely a materialist interpretation. Terrible, very terrible. By your words, you have knowledge only of sky, but have not knowledge of Heaven. Your thinking is from HUMAN perspective, a stumblingblock, not from GOD's perspective.
JESUS took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray, Moses and Elijah came to speak with JESUS, but both did not do any travel through your materialist sky of course. Luke 9:29-36:
29 And as JESUS prayed, the fashion of His countenance was altered, and His raiment was white and glistering.
30 And, behold, there talked with Him two men, which were Moses and Elijah:
32 But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw His glory, and the two MEN that stood with JESUS.
33 And it came to pass, as they departed from JESUS, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah: not knowing what he said.
34 While he thus spake, there came a CLOUD(the same CLOUD of Exodus 24:15-16, understand?), and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the CLOUD.
35 And there came a voice out of the CLOUD, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear Him.
36 And when the voice was past, JESUS was found alone. And they kept it close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen.
Yes, Giannis; Moses and Elijah came to speak with JESUS, but both did not do any travel through your materialist sky of course.
Heaven is not Sky.
17 Seventy returned with joy, saying: Lord, even the demons are subject unto us through thy name.
18 JESUS said unto them: I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. (not from Sky)
This is not Jesus riding on the white horse in Revelation 6:2.
For many years it was interpreted that this was the second coming of Jesus Christ, a white horse coming, the one who's sitting on it is given a crown, and he goes out to conquer, so they said this is Jesus Christ.
But if we study it out, we realize that this is not the second coming of Christ, but rather the representation of the antichrist, the false messiahs who will come.
And here's why:
It says he comes on a white horse. It's the same as Jesus in Revelation Chapter 19. It's a white horse.
But, this one who is sitting on a white horse has a bow. In Revelation Chapter 19, Christ has a sword.
A crown was also given to this one. And the word for crown is STEPHANOS. That's the wreath that is given to the victors at the coliseum games. This is a STEPHANOS.
In Revelation Chapter 19, it says that when Christ comes at His second coming, He will be wearing many crowns, and the word for crown is DIADEM, the royal crown.
And this one will come out conquering and to conquer. And that's the antichrist taking over the one world system.
Also another point to make, it is the Lamb that's opening the seal. He's not coming back yet, not until we get into Revelation Chapter 19.
So this one riding on a white horse with a bow in his hand, he was given a crown, a STEPHANOS, not a DIADEM. And he went out to conquer. This is the antichrist. This is the false messiah that Jesus said first would come.
the "clouds" that is referred to in Rev.1:7, I am beginning to think it is an army/cavalry like I 1st suggested.
( Revelation 1:7) "Behold, he ((cometh WITH clouds)); and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."
( Zephaniah 1:14-15 KJV) "That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of ((clouds)) and thick darkness,"
( 2 Thessalonians 1:7) "And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven ((WITH his mighty angels)),"
( Revelation 19:14 KJV) "And the ((armies)) which were in heaven followed him upon ((white horses)), clothed in fine linen, white and clean."
"The expression "God is not mocked" is not a warning but a reassurance; God would be mocked if ANY of His creations lacked holiness.
ACIM:
"God is not mocked" is not a warning but a reassurance. God would be mocked if any of His creations lacked holiness.
One eighty,
I do believe you when you say you have never taken a course from that website. But can you see how I came to this conclusion? What are the odds of all these things you posted in your own words would match up word for word with the materials from A Course In Miracles?
"What God did not create does not exist. And everything that does exist exists as He created it. The world we see has nothing to do with reality. It is of our own making, and it does not exist.
ACIM:
What God did not create does not exist. And everything that does exist exists as He created it. The world you see has nothing to do with reality. It is of your own making, and it does not exist.
Your words:
"it is impossible to have faith in sin, for sin is faithlessness."
ACIM:
It is impossible to have faith in sin, for sin is faithlessness.
Your words:
"We MADE what we would destroy, everything we would hate, and attack, and would kill.
ACIM:
You made what you would destroy; everything that you hate and would attack and kill
Your words:
"We've literally never left Him and in reality are at home in God merely dreaming of exile, but perfectly capable of awakening to reality."
ACIM:
You are at home in God, dreaming of exile but perfectly capable of awakening to reality.
Your words:
"The idea of sin is the most holy concept in the ego's thought system; lovely, powerful, and wholly true, and necessarily protected with every defense at its disposal."
ACIM:
The idea of sin is the most "holy" concept in the ego's system; lovely and powerful, wholly true, and necessarily protected with every defense at its disposal
What is the ego? But a dream of what I really am. A thought I am apart from my Creator and a wish to be what He created not. It is a thing of madness, not reality at all. A name for namelessness is all it is. A symbol of IMPOSSIBILITY; a choice for options that do not exist. We name it but to help us understand that it is nothing but an ancient thought that what is MADE (not created) has immortality. But what could come of this except a dream which, like all dreams, can only end in death?
ACIM:
What is the ego? But a dream of what you really are. A thought you are apart from your Creator and a wish to be what He created not. It is a thing of madness, not reality at all. A name for namelessness is all it is. A symbol of impossibility; a choice for options that do not exist. We name it but to help us understand that it is nothing but an ancient thought that what is made has immortality. But what could come of this except a dream which, like all dreams, can only end in death?
Your words:
Where is the ego? Where the darkness was. What is it now and where can it be found? Nothing and nowhere. Now the light has come: Its opposite has gone without a trace. Where evil was there now is holiness. What is the ego? What the evil was. Where is the ego? In an evil dream that but seemed real while we were asleep dreaming it
ACIM:
Where is the ego? Where the darkness was. What is it now and where can it be found? Nothing and nowhere. Now the light has come: Its opposite has gone without a trace. Where evil was there now is holiness. What is the ego? What the evil was. Where is the ego? In an evil dream that but seemed real while you were dreaming it.
If you say you have never been to the acim website, then I will take your word for it. About a week ago, you responded to one of my posts and some things you shared were a little confusing to me. I should have asked you to explain, but instead I did a search of some of your comments and stumbled upon that website that said the same things you said, not just in similarity, but actual word for word.
No, I do not study from that website. I only discovered it a week ago while trying to decipher what you were telling me. I would not study from it anyway because as I said, it is full of heretical teachings. I am just trying to warn folks to not go there, including you since you say you never been there. So please, don't go there.
I did ask you a week ago if you were taking any courses from there. You did not respond. From what I found out; it is not just on the internet. There are actually three books that can be purchased that teach this course. If I may ask, do you have these books?
One eighty, there is a reason why I thought you were visiting that website. Please allow me to show you how I came to this conclusion by quoting "your words" that you shared, and then the words that are on this website (I assume they are in the books also).
In bad health situations it is hard to feel close to God. The closest I can relate is in August after I had a lengthy hospital stay after my appendix was removed due to intestinal infection. I didn't feel that I had strength to pray but did have an opportunity for fellowship a couple times with believers and also went through a spiritual battle with some rather evil people that were in the hospital rooms surrounding me.
In any event; as to confusion as you know hope deferred makes the heart sick. That can make verses on the Rapture and His soon coming seem distant when we are physically compromised. I pray that you get some sort of fellowship and or support system. Having a vision for a specific calling or ministry is also helpful. For now I pray that you are strengthened in your time left here spiritually and Lord willing physically. May you continue to have opportunities to spread the Gospel in whatever way the Lord gives you an avenue.
We are the third heaven, where God dwells, the third heaven, the (literal) body of Christ, the third heaven, Christ in the flesh the second time, the NEW heaven, the third heaven, the Kingdom on God on earth.
Revelation is symbolic, the 1000 year reign, is symbolic of ONE DAY, the Day of the Lord, when all flesh was raised AS ONE FLESH, the flesh and bone of Christ.
This ONE DAY, has been on earth now for 2000 years, and will never be anywhere but on earth.
At present, we are the (literal) body of Christ, when harvested, we will still be the (literal) body of Christ, BUT, in the twinkling of an eye, switch bodies: we will be given HIS RESURRECTED body, our flesh and blood body cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.
1000 years has and end, the DAY of the Lord has no end, everytime the clock shows 11:59:59 PM, the next tick becomes TODAY, the Day of the LORD, world without end, TODAY, the DAY of SALVATION.
We were promised where Christ is: WE WILL BE ALSO, Christ is in man, omnipresent, as the spirit of truth, bring man into the TRUTH and KNOWLEDGE of Kingdom of God.
Revelation 10:11 .... Thou must prophecy AGAIN before many peoples, and nation, and tongues, and kings.
Jacobs ladder, in Genesis, is symbolic of the harvested SEED ascending and descending on Christ.
John 1:51 ... I say unto you, HEREAFTER ye shall see (the third) heaven OPEN, and the angels of God (ministering spirit) ascending and descending upon the Son of Man.
Thank you for your sincere reply. I assure you, no offense taken.
,I am baffled by your comment that my post "does not address the request made by Stewart!"
May I suggest you reconsider, what the facts are: 1. He requested prayer, and I said to him, "You are in my prayers." I ADDRESSED that, as I did so and still am praying. 2. I perceived him as being concerned that his days were numbered; and I ADDRESSED that. 3. Was it not obvious he was concerned with his health? I ADDRESSED that. 4. Did you perceive he felt the truth was being hidden from him? I ADDRESSED that. 5. Did you sense he's not feeling he's understanding God's Word? I ADDRESSED that by stating that peace and understanding go together and can never be found alone. I did so by encouraging him God VALUES him, and by inferring he's worthy in God's Mind, and He is Perfect Love. I also touched on the the Holy Spirit's Voice and the ego's regarding the contrasts.
Is it possible you missed all this, or were you so wrapped up in the plagiarism aspect, that it went in one ear and out the other? It's no wonder you called my post generic.
How much more specificity do you want, based on the 5 SPECIFIC items I addressed. I'm not sure what you want; a book or an essay? No one else replied in that manner.
In regards to not giving credit where it's due, there's only two choices here; the Holy Spirit or the ego. You have the free will to choose; and I respect that, and will not judge you in a negative or positive way. ACIM does not list an author, because there is no earthly one. So if you have a complaint, speak to the Holy Spirit or your ego. I have no desire or inkling to profit from it, other than pursuing a closer relationship with my Creator and the whole Sonship, including you. I couldn't say this in regards to the thousands who profit materialistically from the Bible.
God will never decide against you, or He would be deciding against Himself.
Hello JRR. I wasn't able to ascertain whether you referred to 'man' as those generally of mankind or to believers in Christ. If to the former, no one, except for God's chosen people of old, Israel, were given His Commandments, Statutes, & the many feasts to celebrate in remembrance of Him & of their own sinfulness & need of a Savior.
Or, if you're thinking of believers & why don't we "follow Yahweh's feasts and celebrate his statutes as He commanded", then again those directions were given to Israel, the special called-out people who would carry the LORD's Name, experience His Love, blessings & directions, & so be His witnesses to the godless world. This of course, Israel failed to fully experience & suffered because of their disobedience & sins. Those initial directions given to Israel, as described in the Books of Exodus & Leviticus particularly, were for Israel alone, that through the performance of them, their hearts would be turned to their LORD & they would see, however dimly, that God would one day perfectly fulfil all those feasts, sabbath days, & ceremonies in the provision of Himself: a Savior Who would not only save them by the shedding of His Blood for them, but that they would no longer need to 'work' to gain God's Favor but only place their faith in HIS Sacrifice for them.
There are some today who still believe that Christians should also keep the feasts, laws, & ordinances, but for these reasons, it is not required nor demanded: those adherences were for Israel alone & for their benefit to draw them closer to God & be His Light; when Jesus came & gave His Life "in due time", all the works of man (both Israel & Gentiles) had ceased, & only faith in Christ alone could save them; and to perform the feasts & other requirements of the Law only showed that Christ's Sacrifice was insufficient to fully atone & that doing those 'works', even for remembrance-sake, denies Jesus' perfect Sacrifice "once for all". Please read Hebrews 10:1-14 on this matter.
An elderly brother in my congregation told me that he believed the first heaven was the garden of Eden , the second was the kingdom of Israel during Solomon's reign and the third will be the one thousand year reign of Christ on earth . Sounds reasonable to me . Thy Kingdom Come .
Greetings and grace be to you from God our Father.
You say "I set aside Saturday as the Biblical Sabbath and treat it much differently than any other day that I worship" How so?
Do you sleep in all day or lounge around the house? No sarcasm intended here I am curious as to what you mean by how you "set aside and treat it differently". Although I do agree with 4th commandment in Exodus 20:8 "Remember the sabbath day, to Keep it holy." I still preach the Gospel on this day just as I do every other day. Am I wrong here? Also is Sunday service not advised? I thought I'd make you aware that I have no 'job' so I either preach the gospel, read the bible or fellowship with other bible believers.
I thank you kindly in advance. peace be with you in Jesus name.
GOD BLESS YOU AGAIN!
That's a nice visual: the calvary (angels) coming and kicking up dust. The Jewish historian, Josephus, who lived in the first century, wrote about people seeing angels and chariots in the Jerusalem sky in the years just prior to the Roman destruction.
That info is in : Flavious Josephus, The Wars of the Jews, 6.5.3
My hunch is you are spot on that the clouds represent the heavenly host of angels. Why would Jesus come alone? He is a great King and his angels would want to come with him for this momentous and wonderful occasion.
Come Lord Jesus. Soon. Amen!
The following verse shows clearly what the ancient people believed it was universe, " "And every creature which is in heaven(sky), and on the earth(land), and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them,... "
2. My belief is that the Word is not literally the person God. But when God says a word, an order, a command, that is done. Not like doing magic, but it is the Spirit who brings in existence all that He commands.
3. Moses and Elijah appeared on that mountain talking to Jesus. Did they have to travel through the universe to be brought there? Here there maybe 2 cases.
a. Yes, with the speed of Spirit, ie in a split second,
b. No, since before Jesus' resurrection all people were down the deepest of earth, inside Hades, the righteous in Abraham's bosom and the unrighteous in Hell. So they were brought from underneath. Unless the position of Hades in the deepest of earth is something figurative and not literal and Hades exists somewhere else.
This is how I see those brother.
Blessings and wish you a blessed week.
1. As I said before in Hebrew heaven and sky is the same word. Brother Ronald wrote a very good comment explaining that.
Now to understand what ancient people meant with heaven/sky we have to understand what they considered of universe at those times. When they looked around them all they could see was a land that was flat. They didn't know anything about planets, their shape, etc. They didn't know how long and wide that land was, some thought it was limitless, some thought after that imaginary limit only chaos exists, others that it was supported by some sort of foundations, etc. In Bible it says the 4 corners of earth, thus including every land (in Hbr and grk earth and land is the same word). When they looked up to the sky they saw a blue thing, the sky, with some lights (the sun, the moon, the stars) moving along and across the sky, in a circular mode, so they assumed there was something like a solid dome. They didn't know anything about planets, stars, they thought those were some sort of lights, as I said. They didn't know how far those lights were from the land, so they placed them at the edge of the sky. They had no idea what exists after the sky, like a place with no air, no gravity, etc. That was their universe, the land and the sky up. So when they used to read Genesis about the creation, the phrase "God created the earth/land and the sky/heaven" for them it was the whole universe. Just that, the land and the sky. They imagined that God should live in a place further away than that sky/heaven, so they placed God's residence somewhere above that dome. Today we say after the universe as we know it today, and this seems to be write, unless someome believes that God's spiritual world exists inside the universe but can not be seen. This is what they meant with the word "heaven", everything that was above the land they were walking on. They didn't distinguish between the material and the spiritual world. Heaven for themwas just the sky above
Now latest discussions on Heaven. I take the Gen 1:1 literal as we all do, until it is not possible. Then it is a figurative truth. Is its literal in Psalms 75:6-7?
1st, 2nd, 3rd Heaven....1)I thought it was the sky, 2) was the part where there is no more air from there to the 3) Heaven itself. Where God is, has day and night. A better country, many mansions streets of gold. Temples and a Throne where God sits Jesus at His right.
In Psalms 75:6 6 For promotion cometh neither from the east, nor from the west, nor from the south.
7 But God is the judge: he putteth down one, and setteth up another. (God is in Heaven)
So Heaven is North? Could've said side to side or beneath but up.
And God Bless you for you words of kindness, encouragement. But tell me if I am wrong here, and I will take advice like I said before, and let the devil get at me. Ready for advice, because I wondered at this scripture myself, it is saying Heaven is literally north of Earth.
I also agree with you that Jesus was not born in December. You probably already know that he was most likely born in the fall. Sometime around the Feast of Tabernacles. There are several reasons for thinking this is true.
Thanks, Jordyn, for the points that you bring up.
What nation of people do this text address?
I just take it literal like we take Gen 1:1 literal, until it not possible, then its a figurative truth.
I feel much better, I let satan put me in pity party. But since age 5 I was raised in church until I turn my back on God at age 15. I just recently got back up. I was once in Church 6 days a week (Moose Factory Christian Academy of Education, Church services, boys and girls club until age 12 then its Youth Service Fridays. Of course we can do that and still not go to Heaven, its a day to day hour by hour second by second constant relationship with God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit.) In my suffering, I will rejoice anyways.
Love you as Christ loves us all, and Me. (Moose Factory, ON Canada is where I am from)
I just take Word of God literal like we take Gen 1:1 literal until it not possible, then its a figurative truth.
God Bless You, and I love you as Christ loves us all and Me.
Thank and God Bless You
I am just trying to be FULL of FAITH by remaining faithFUL and obey Jesus commands as best I can. I pray my name is written in the book of life. If I am one that is left behind then so be it. God' judgement is just and righteous and I am without excuse.
God bless you, brother.
The RIGHTEOUS dead are raised at the FIRST resurrection to eternal life. The UNRIGHTEOUSNESS dead are raised at the SECOND resurrection. They will face the judgement seat of Christ and then they will die eternally. Their soul will die.
Below, verse 24 emphasizes that 'once saved, always saved' is a dangerous lie. How many children were saved in Sunday school and assume, as adults ,they are saved. But, they don't give one thought to God as an adult and they do not pursue sanctification in their life. Anyway, the following scripture is from Ezekiel:
"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
But, if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes and do that which is right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? Saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
But when the righteous turn away from his righteousness, and committed iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All his righteousness that he has done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he has trespassed, and in his sin that he has sinned, in them shall he die." Ezekiel 18:20-24
Cloud of witnesses also form part of this heaven. (he.12:1) In short the Land of the living where these are alive and are in the presence of God. God is the God of the living and it is how we live two worlds at a time. "I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living." (Matt.22-32. Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God./For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven."(Matt.22:29)
We walk by faith. it applies to us so we run our race looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith. We live both worlds at the same time. Nothing less shall justify being a child of God. (Ro.8:14).
Pray for understanding.
It is written in
Revelation 1:3,KJV
3.Blessed is he that readeth,
and they that hear the words of this prophecy,
and keep those things which are written therein:
for the time is at hand.
My recommendation to all the Christian who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, those using this online tool. Get yourself familiarise with the Hebrew and Greek languages of scripture (interlinear bible) and if By the grace of God Study both Languages
-In the Hebrew the word God and Heaven is revealed to us (Human-Beings) in Plural
-Elohim =GOD which singular Eloah and in Plural ELOHIM.
-Heaven= eshmim which is the heavens in Plural .
-Therefore, when you Read in Genesis 1:20 you will be confronted with this fact God says Let us which is in Plural Indicting One Yet Three in the Scriptures.
-Mind you this Fact is found All over the Scripture and it is written in 1 John 5:7, KJV
7.For there are three that bear record in heaven,
the Father, the Word, and
the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
(Time is at Hand we are living at the end of days.)
Repent of your sins and do not be deceive Amen.
ACT 2:38, KJV
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
" and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne." (4:2) "And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God."(v.3)
'thundering' explains the word of God sent forth. These encapsulate the Gospel of God and the earthly ministry of his Son. "and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices. In Re.110 vv.4-5 explains it, "And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not." The Gospel of Christ has been proclaimed so John was not to write them down. It is part of the everlasting gospel. "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people," (Re.14:6-7) Thrust of this is in v.7. John is set in the first heaven . Trinity is here. "And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind." the body, the seven Spirits of God and the soul is indicated by lightenings or the glory of the Son.
Principle of Similitude sets the firmament the sea of glass bear relationship with the sky.separating the waters above and below. Altar souls remind us of the martyrs resting for a season.
Third heaven is "And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever."(5:10)
These are set vertical from throne forming the apex to a base, a cone for ecample.
The clouds are symbolic of those that have come to truth, we were resurrected with Christ, the NEW CREATION, being made ONE with him, by his resurrection.
Jeremiah 51:20-23
Obadiah 1:21
God Bless YOU!
You said one can lose their salvation.
What are you saved from?
Your SAVED from DEATH.
Christ is our PASSOVER sacrifice, death passed over us,
If we don't believe, then we die in our SIN of UNBELIEF.
But as you said, Christ is going to resurrect the DEAD, so one cannot lose his salvation, being saved from death.
God Bless YOU!
By the Word of GOD - the Word is GOD - self-executing, heavens are celestial environments in Christ that have nothing, but nothing, with the material space of Universe. You are confounding Heaven with Sky, so your interpretion of the Word of GOD is merely a materialist interpretation. Terrible, very terrible. By your words, you have knowledge only of sky, but have not knowledge of Heaven. Your thinking is from HUMAN perspective, a stumblingblock, not from GOD's perspective.
JESUS took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray, Moses and Elijah came to speak with JESUS, but both did not do any travel through your materialist sky of course. Luke 9:29-36:
29 And as JESUS prayed, the fashion of His countenance was altered, and His raiment was white and glistering.
30 And, behold, there talked with Him two men, which were Moses and Elijah:
32 But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw His glory, and the two MEN that stood with JESUS.
33 And it came to pass, as they departed from JESUS, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah: not knowing what he said.
34 While he thus spake, there came a CLOUD(the same CLOUD of Exodus 24:15-16, understand?), and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the CLOUD.
35 And there came a voice out of the CLOUD, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear Him.
36 And when the voice was past, JESUS was found alone. And they kept it close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen.
Yes, Giannis; Moses and Elijah came to speak with JESUS, but both did not do any travel through your materialist sky of course.
Heaven is not Sky.
17 Seventy returned with joy, saying: Lord, even the demons are subject unto us through thy name.
18 JESUS said unto them: I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. (not from Sky)
This is not Jesus riding on the white horse in Revelation 6:2.
For many years it was interpreted that this was the second coming of Jesus Christ, a white horse coming, the one who's sitting on it is given a crown, and he goes out to conquer, so they said this is Jesus Christ.
But if we study it out, we realize that this is not the second coming of Christ, but rather the representation of the antichrist, the false messiahs who will come.
And here's why:
It says he comes on a white horse. It's the same as Jesus in Revelation Chapter 19. It's a white horse.
But, this one who is sitting on a white horse has a bow. In Revelation Chapter 19, Christ has a sword.
A crown was also given to this one. And the word for crown is STEPHANOS. That's the wreath that is given to the victors at the coliseum games. This is a STEPHANOS.
In Revelation Chapter 19, it says that when Christ comes at His second coming, He will be wearing many crowns, and the word for crown is DIADEM, the royal crown.
And this one will come out conquering and to conquer. And that's the antichrist taking over the one world system.
Also another point to make, it is the Lamb that's opening the seal. He's not coming back yet, not until we get into Revelation Chapter 19.
So this one riding on a white horse with a bow in his hand, he was given a crown, a STEPHANOS, not a DIADEM. And he went out to conquer. This is the antichrist. This is the false messiah that Jesus said first would come.
Hope this helps!
the "clouds" that is referred to in Rev.1:7, I am beginning to think it is an army/cavalry like I 1st suggested.
( Revelation 1:7) "Behold, he ((cometh WITH clouds)); and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."
( Zephaniah 1:14-15 KJV) "That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of ((clouds)) and thick darkness,"
( 2 Thessalonians 1:7) "And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven ((WITH his mighty angels)),"
( Revelation 19:14 KJV) "And the ((armies)) which were in heaven followed him upon ((white horses)), clothed in fine linen, white and clean."
God bless.
Your words:
"The expression "God is not mocked" is not a warning but a reassurance; God would be mocked if ANY of His creations lacked holiness.
ACIM:
"God is not mocked" is not a warning but a reassurance. God would be mocked if any of His creations lacked holiness.
One eighty,
I do believe you when you say you have never taken a course from that website. But can you see how I came to this conclusion? What are the odds of all these things you posted in your own words would match up word for word with the materials from A Course In Miracles?
Blessings to you also!
Your words:
"What God did not create does not exist. And everything that does exist exists as He created it. The world we see has nothing to do with reality. It is of our own making, and it does not exist.
ACIM:
What God did not create does not exist. And everything that does exist exists as He created it. The world you see has nothing to do with reality. It is of your own making, and it does not exist.
Your words:
"it is impossible to have faith in sin, for sin is faithlessness."
ACIM:
It is impossible to have faith in sin, for sin is faithlessness.
Your words:
"We MADE what we would destroy, everything we would hate, and attack, and would kill.
ACIM:
You made what you would destroy; everything that you hate and would attack and kill
Your words:
"We've literally never left Him and in reality are at home in God merely dreaming of exile, but perfectly capable of awakening to reality."
ACIM:
You are at home in God, dreaming of exile but perfectly capable of awakening to reality.
Your words:
"The idea of sin is the most holy concept in the ego's thought system; lovely, powerful, and wholly true, and necessarily protected with every defense at its disposal."
ACIM:
The idea of sin is the most "holy" concept in the ego's system; lovely and powerful, wholly true, and necessarily protected with every defense at its disposal
Your words:
What is the ego? But a dream of what I really am. A thought I am apart from my Creator and a wish to be what He created not. It is a thing of madness, not reality at all. A name for namelessness is all it is. A symbol of IMPOSSIBILITY; a choice for options that do not exist. We name it but to help us understand that it is nothing but an ancient thought that what is MADE (not created) has immortality. But what could come of this except a dream which, like all dreams, can only end in death?
ACIM:
What is the ego? But a dream of what you really are. A thought you are apart from your Creator and a wish to be what He created not. It is a thing of madness, not reality at all. A name for namelessness is all it is. A symbol of impossibility; a choice for options that do not exist. We name it but to help us understand that it is nothing but an ancient thought that what is made has immortality. But what could come of this except a dream which, like all dreams, can only end in death?
Your words:
Where is the ego? Where the darkness was. What is it now and where can it be found? Nothing and nowhere. Now the light has come: Its opposite has gone without a trace. Where evil was there now is holiness. What is the ego? What the evil was. Where is the ego? In an evil dream that but seemed real while we were asleep dreaming it
ACIM:
Where is the ego? Where the darkness was. What is it now and where can it be found? Nothing and nowhere. Now the light has come: Its opposite has gone without a trace. Where evil was there now is holiness. What is the ego? What the evil was. Where is the ego? In an evil dream that but seemed real while you were dreaming it.
(Part 1):
If you say you have never been to the acim website, then I will take your word for it. About a week ago, you responded to one of my posts and some things you shared were a little confusing to me. I should have asked you to explain, but instead I did a search of some of your comments and stumbled upon that website that said the same things you said, not just in similarity, but actual word for word.
No, I do not study from that website. I only discovered it a week ago while trying to decipher what you were telling me. I would not study from it anyway because as I said, it is full of heretical teachings. I am just trying to warn folks to not go there, including you since you say you never been there. So please, don't go there.
I did ask you a week ago if you were taking any courses from there. You did not respond. From what I found out; it is not just on the internet. There are actually three books that can be purchased that teach this course. If I may ask, do you have these books?
One eighty, there is a reason why I thought you were visiting that website. Please allow me to show you how I came to this conclusion by quoting "your words" that you shared, and then the words that are on this website (I assume they are in the books also).
I need more space so please bear with me.
In any event; as to confusion as you know hope deferred makes the heart sick. That can make verses on the Rapture and His soon coming seem distant when we are physically compromised. I pray that you get some sort of fellowship and or support system. Having a vision for a specific calling or ministry is also helpful. For now I pray that you are strengthened in your time left here spiritually and Lord willing physically. May you continue to have opportunities to spread the Gospel in whatever way the Lord gives you an avenue.
Agape; Rich P
We are the third heaven, where God dwells, the third heaven, the (literal) body of Christ, the third heaven, Christ in the flesh the second time, the NEW heaven, the third heaven, the Kingdom on God on earth.
Revelation is symbolic, the 1000 year reign, is symbolic of ONE DAY, the Day of the Lord, when all flesh was raised AS ONE FLESH, the flesh and bone of Christ.
This ONE DAY, has been on earth now for 2000 years, and will never be anywhere but on earth.
At present, we are the (literal) body of Christ, when harvested, we will still be the (literal) body of Christ, BUT, in the twinkling of an eye, switch bodies: we will be given HIS RESURRECTED body, our flesh and blood body cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.
1000 years has and end, the DAY of the Lord has no end, everytime the clock shows 11:59:59 PM, the next tick becomes TODAY, the Day of the LORD, world without end, TODAY, the DAY of SALVATION.
We were promised where Christ is: WE WILL BE ALSO, Christ is in man, omnipresent, as the spirit of truth, bring man into the TRUTH and KNOWLEDGE of Kingdom of God.
Revelation 10:11 .... Thou must prophecy AGAIN before many peoples, and nation, and tongues, and kings.
Jacobs ladder, in Genesis, is symbolic of the harvested SEED ascending and descending on Christ.
John 1:51 ... I say unto you, HEREAFTER ye shall see (the third) heaven OPEN, and the angels of God (ministering spirit) ascending and descending upon the Son of Man.
God BLESS YOU!
Thank you for your sincere reply. I assure you, no offense taken.
,I am baffled by your comment that my post "does not address the request made by Stewart!"
May I suggest you reconsider, what the facts are: 1. He requested prayer, and I said to him, "You are in my prayers." I ADDRESSED that, as I did so and still am praying. 2. I perceived him as being concerned that his days were numbered; and I ADDRESSED that. 3. Was it not obvious he was concerned with his health? I ADDRESSED that. 4. Did you perceive he felt the truth was being hidden from him? I ADDRESSED that. 5. Did you sense he's not feeling he's understanding God's Word? I ADDRESSED that by stating that peace and understanding go together and can never be found alone. I did so by encouraging him God VALUES him, and by inferring he's worthy in God's Mind, and He is Perfect Love. I also touched on the the Holy Spirit's Voice and the ego's regarding the contrasts.
Is it possible you missed all this, or were you so wrapped up in the plagiarism aspect, that it went in one ear and out the other? It's no wonder you called my post generic.
How much more specificity do you want, based on the 5 SPECIFIC items I addressed. I'm not sure what you want; a book or an essay? No one else replied in that manner.
In regards to not giving credit where it's due, there's only two choices here; the Holy Spirit or the ego. You have the free will to choose; and I respect that, and will not judge you in a negative or positive way. ACIM does not list an author, because there is no earthly one. So if you have a complaint, speak to the Holy Spirit or your ego. I have no desire or inkling to profit from it, other than pursuing a closer relationship with my Creator and the whole Sonship, including you. I couldn't say this in regards to the thousands who profit materialistically from the Bible.
God will never decide against you, or He would be deciding against Himself.
Peace always
Or, if you're thinking of believers & why don't we "follow Yahweh's feasts and celebrate his statutes as He commanded", then again those directions were given to Israel, the special called-out people who would carry the LORD's Name, experience His Love, blessings & directions, & so be His witnesses to the godless world. This of course, Israel failed to fully experience & suffered because of their disobedience & sins. Those initial directions given to Israel, as described in the Books of Exodus & Leviticus particularly, were for Israel alone, that through the performance of them, their hearts would be turned to their LORD & they would see, however dimly, that God would one day perfectly fulfil all those feasts, sabbath days, & ceremonies in the provision of Himself: a Savior Who would not only save them by the shedding of His Blood for them, but that they would no longer need to 'work' to gain God's Favor but only place their faith in HIS Sacrifice for them.
There are some today who still believe that Christians should also keep the feasts, laws, & ordinances, but for these reasons, it is not required nor demanded: those adherences were for Israel alone & for their benefit to draw them closer to God & be His Light; when Jesus came & gave His Life "in due time", all the works of man (both Israel & Gentiles) had ceased, & only faith in Christ alone could save them; and to perform the feasts & other requirements of the Law only showed that Christ's Sacrifice was insufficient to fully atone & that doing those 'works', even for remembrance-sake, denies Jesus' perfect Sacrifice "once for all". Please read Hebrews 10:1-14 on this matter.
Greetings and grace be to you from God our Father.
You say "I set aside Saturday as the Biblical Sabbath and treat it much differently than any other day that I worship" How so?
Do you sleep in all day or lounge around the house? No sarcasm intended here I am curious as to what you mean by how you "set aside and treat it differently". Although I do agree with 4th commandment in Exodus 20:8 "Remember the sabbath day, to Keep it holy." I still preach the Gospel on this day just as I do every other day. Am I wrong here? Also is Sunday service not advised? I thought I'd make you aware that I have no 'job' so I either preach the gospel, read the bible or fellowship with other bible believers.
I thank you kindly in advance. peace be with you in Jesus name.