Bible Questions & Discussion PAGE 565

Mike,

Thank you for sharing this. As you say, this is a great lesson. We find it in Mark 12:41-44 which speaks about the casting of the widow's mite

Verse 41 says that Jesus sat over against the treasury. Now I like this one! This would be equivalent to Jesus sitting across the tithing envelopes in the foyer in our church fellowship. That would make someone nervous wouldn't it? And He was watching how the people cast their money into the treasury: how they were doing it, not how much. And many that were rich cast in much.

Verse 42 says that she threw in two mites (and these are not bugs). Those are the names of coins. It is actually the word LEPTA. A LEPTA is only 1/64th of a day's wage. Somebody figured that out to be about 10 or 12 minutes, 1/64th of a day's wage.

And so two of them, two mites, it adds up to a KORENTAS, 1/32nd of a day's wage. Not much! She threw in these two coins worth 1/32nd of a day's wage. Today, someone might have sent a visitation committee to her house. Now the word farthing is the word KORENTAS in this text.

And as you mentioned, it is very interesting on how God views money. In Verse 43, Jesus saw that the people were casting in money and many that were rich threw in a lot of money. And He says that this widow threw in more than all of them put together. So they are kind of baffled at this.

But the message of scripture is not how much you put in, it's how much you have left over. That is the way God looks at giving. She put in 1/32nd of a day's wage but it was all she had. Everything! She had nothing left over.

Again, great message. Thanks for sharing this!

Rdavis2014 The answer is none like adam and eve but you do read where God tells them to replenish the earth so

by shear logic something was here before mankind as we know it today.

Thanks for your reply, brother Jesse, I will answer you tomorrow since it's getting late at night here. I will also like to explain me your thoughts about those verses in Colossians and Romans. GBU

Richard sin is broken fellowship in any kind of thought word or deed against Gods word, or any thing outside of

mathew 23:36-40.

Jason Since only God knows whats in a mans heart in genesis he knew cains , and look at cains actions and responses

he became extremely angry because of jealousy to the point of murder. Then look at his response when God ask wheres your

brother am I my brothers keeper like who cares no heart. Cain was the first absolutely what the bible calls in other places

a son of belial he became absolutely worthless for the true God and all his lineage over the ages same thing. Jude verse 11

and in context discribes these men who always defy and endeavor to interrupt the ways of the true God. Most of the

pharisees and other leaders at the time of christ were these men. In 1 KINGS 18:18-22 when elijah ordered the prophets

of baal another name for satan worship these men were all wicked men same deal worshipping the devil. They exist in our

day and time only they operate behind the scenes controlling world conditions backed up by satan. This is a brief overview

in answer to gen4:5 and 15, in John 8:38-44 Jesus Christ confronted some of these men directly and called them sons of the

devil spiritually.

What is sin? The first thoughts that come to mind are the obvious outer symptoms through one's behaviors when something is manifest such as anger. The next level is the thoughts and intentions of the heart; which caused an outer veneer of obedience to the law with the Pharisees; but much deeper transgressions with religious exercised in such a way that they could still get what they want (for instance; when they would be covetous disregarding the needs of their families) shown in Mark 7:6-9 and other verses speaking of their greed. The same principle exists for evil thoughts that lead to actions such as lust; adultery; fornication etc. ( Matt. 15:19).

The significant factor often missing from these analogies is breaching of a covenant. This is why those; for instance, who have remarried without scriptural permission are very hypocritical focusing on others who are living together who weren't under such a covenant. But marriage today is viewed at the human level as a contract; rather than a covenant with the eternal God between one man and woman that is to be permanent for life; and which encompasses vows from each party (at least traditionally) implying the penalties should such a pact be broken. This is similar to God's covenant people in the nation of Israel; where God had called them out from bondage. Their knowledge being present while the miracles occurred and seeing God's providence after the Exodus in the desert made them more responsible when they fell into practices of the pagan nations.

But; as scripture states not all Israel was true Israel ( Romans 9:6-7). There are many verses where emphasis is placed on keeping vows in the O.T.

Finally; anything we know is right and fail to do is sin ( James 4:17-loosly translated). We should at all times keep our commitments unless it becomes impossible not to go against scriptural conduct in our lives. We need also to be careful to do things of obedience out of love of God not self promotion.

Giannis,

(Part 2)

I just wanted to touch on Luke 3:3, and also respond to your comment telling me to "Please pay attention to that "for the remission of sins". If John's baptism was for the remission of sins, how do some of us believe that the christian baptism is not necassary for salvation?"

So, as you asked, I am focusing on the part that says "for the remission of sins," and I know that John's baptism was a baptism of repentance for the Jews, and that John was water baptizing these Jews. However, water baptism was not for the remission of sin because no amount of water can wash away or remit sin.

It tells us in Hebrews 9:22 that without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin. When John baptized, there was no blood shed, therefore, there could not have been any remission of sin. The Jews would go down to the Sea of Galilee or the Jordan River every year and get water baptized, but that was not for the remission of sin. If John's baptism (Water) was for the remission of sin, why would they get water baptized every year?

You ask: "how do some of us believe that the christian baptism is not necassary for salvation?" I cannot answer for others, but my answer would be that Christian baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation. But John's baptism (Water baptism) was not Christian baptism. It was a baptism of repentance for the Jews. In order for their sins to be remitted, they needed to repent, turn away from Judaism, and surrender their lives to Christ as their Messiah. Submitting to water baptism would not remit their sin.

You mentioned that "John's baptism was for repenting and spiritual cleansing," but where in scripture does it tell us that John's baptism was for spiritual cleansing? All I see is that John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. It says nothing about spiritual cleansing? So my understanding is that water baptism does not cleanse us spiritually. Being baptized by God's Spirit is what cleanses us. I hope we can agree on that?

Hello,

BC = Before Christ

AD = Year of the Lord

You have anti-God people trying to gaslight by pretending these acronyms mean something else other than Jesus, for instance new history books likely won't show the above.

Jesus was on earth 33 years.

Some believe Jesus was born 4BC-6BC and left 27AD-29AD.

The nature of the calendar itself indicates some believed Jesus was born 1 AD.

521 AD in your example would be nearly 500 years after Jesus.

1 John 3 : 8 ..Whosoever sins is of the devil for the devil sinneth from the beginning...For this purpose was the son of God manifested that he might destroy the works of the devil...How will sin be destroyed and the works of the devil etc...Simply b/c of his death when a seed dies it multiplies, Thats y he told the Greeks unless a seed dies it abides alone but if it dies it will bring forth much fruit....B/C of his death he will be multiplied as the Stars of Heaven....Smite the shepherd and the sheep will be scattered...Then I will turn my hand to the lil Ones....The babes and Sucklings....unless ya receive the Kingdom of God as a lil Child you will in no wise enter there in....That Child is the H.G. the Children of Promise....That are gonna result from his seed that has been multiplied as the Stars of Heaven....And that y Elijah has to come and turn the hearts of the fathers to the Children...Which are his offspring ....Remember Isaiah 11 speaks of the woman with Child and she that travails with Child....A great company....They are gonna be as the stars of Heaven in multitudes ....Which answers to REV. 12 :10 ....And thats how the Kingdom will come via a lil Child which is the H.G. Emanuel....That Child of PROMISE...ok..lemme Go....He is gona know everybody...From the least to the greatest....Jeremiah...31 : 34 KJV

Hi Giannis,

I don't believe we are very far off on our belief about water baptism and Spirit baptism. I do agree that water baptism is symbolic, and baptism of the Holy Spirit not symbolic. Water baptism just symbolizes an action (Salvation) that has already taken place. I'm not sure if you were trying to explain that to me, but I am in agreement with that part.

My reasoning for believing Colossians 2:12 and Romans 6:3-7 are referring to Spirit baptism, not water, would take much more space to explain that what we have here. If you need me to explain, and you are willing to read a much longer post, I can do so. Again, not to debate or change your mind, but to give my understanding.

You posted John 3:3, but I'm sure you meant Luke 3:3. This is where we might differ. First of all, John's baptism is not believer's baptism. It has nothing to do with Christian baptism. This was for the Jews. It was a requirement for them. Luke Chapter 7 tells us that it was a requirement that they go through the baptism of John in order to express repentance and they are ready to surrender to the Messiah.

Luke Chapter 7 tells us that it was God's council that all the Pharisees be baptized by John in order to receive Messiah. And he says they rejected the baptism of John. So it was a requirement that they do both. They had to go through John's baptism and be born of the Spirit. That's for the Jews only.

But John's baptism is not Christian baptism. It was a baptism of repentance for the Jewish people only, and there's a reason for that. Every year, the Jewish people would go down to the Sea of Galilee or to the Jordan River and be baptized. It is called the MIKVAH or MIKVEH. For the believer, when we get baptized in what we call believer's baptism, (water involved), it is supposed to represent and testify to the inward work of Christ of salvation. It is after we are saved.

Well, it looks like I'll need a little more space anyway. I'll respond to your last part in a separate post.

One of the greatest lessons taught about giving is found here in the meager giving of the widow. It's obvious that great riches were poured into the treasury yet Jesus took note of the greater giving done by the window. Though her giving was miniscule compared to the others Jesus noted that she gave of her want. Jesus noted that her giving was greater because of what she had left after she gave. The scribes and Pharisees were not hurt nor left in want after they gave. The widow gave of her want. She's left with more want after her giving. That kind of giving is what catches Jesus'attention.

Brother David:

Job is a PROPHECY of Christ.

Job 2:3 And the LORD (God the Father) said unto Satan ( John 8:44 and his children, all flesh and blood), Hast thou considered my servant Job (a metaphor for Christ) that there is none like him (Christ) in the earth, a perfect and upright man (Christ), one (Christ) that feareth God (the Father), and escheweth evil? and he (Christ) still holdest fast his integrity, although thou (Satan and his children, flesh and blood)) movest ME (God the Father) AGAINST HIM (Christ), to DESTROY HIM (Christ) WITHOUT A CAUSE.

Psalms 119:161 Princes ( 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 of this world, Children of Satan) have persecuted me (Christ) WITHOUT A CAUSE, but I (Christ) stand in awe of the (Father's) word.

John 15:25 But THIS (Christ death and resurrection) COMETH TO PASS, that the WORD might be FULFILLED that is written in their law, They hated me WITHOUT A CAUSE.

God Bless You.

Hi Peter.

part 1.

I would like to share my view on Luke 15:11-13. First with more emphasis on the loving father and his duel role as a Father and the chief shepherd.

Secondly the actions of the Son and a lost sheep.

Beginning at verse 1; Luke 15:1-32.

Notice in Luke 15:2-3 the complaints of the Pharisees that prompts Jesus to give 3 parables to make his point.

Notice what these 3 parables have in common.

Something someone possess.

Something lost.

and Something Found.

Take tote that while these were lost they never quit belonging to the possessor.

vs 4. What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, AND GO AFTER THAT WHICH IS LOST, UNTIL HE FIND IT?

vs 6 he says "Rejoice with me; for I HAVE FOUND ( MY SHEEP ) which was lost. "It never quit being his!

2nd Parable. vs 8. "Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, DOTH NOT LIGHT A CANDLE, AND SWEEP THE HOUSE, AND SEEK DILIGENTLY TILL SHE FIND IT?

vs 9. I HAVE FOUND THE PIECE WHICH I HAD LOST.

3rd Parable.

Luke 15:11-12. And he said, A certain man had two sons:

And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them LIVING. I would suggest that the living that the father given him was more than just substance which ran out, there was also life.

Look at what happens in vs14.

"And when he had spent all, THERE AROSE A MIGHTY FAMINE IN

( THAT LAND;) and he began to be in want. A FAMINE IN THAT LAND!

Coincidence?

kind of reminds me of Jonah.

Now let's look at the son/lost sheep in part 2.

Hello Richard There's one thing in your commentary that I find questionable biblically, since God almighty and all knowing

knows the devil is god of this world because it was handed to him in gen. look at luke 4:5-7 also in JAMES 1:12-17 all good

and perfect gifts come from the father of lights, also God can't be tempted neither tempt He any man. I see biblically where

that's true in respect to accomplish what he wants to bring to pass according to what His Word promises. Even in our lives

we are so to speak spiritually untouchable as long as we walk spiritually in CHRIST althiough our physical bodies die daily.

Good morning to you and thank you for your thoughts on my questions. I definitely agree that we are all descendants of Adam (From his son Seth's line of descendants. You are correct in that some of the translations from the original language to English may be slightly off in some wording, like the example that you provided. We of course will not know for sure until we get to heaven and as I stated in another post the most important thing is to believe in God and that he sent his son to die for our sins.

After rereading the first six chapters of Genesis I do agree with you that the reason God accepted Abel's sacrifice and not Cain's was because Cain's did not come fully from his heart. It wasn't the sacrifice that was important it was the motive behind it.

I am doing my best not to use preconceived notions and as you stated to let the holy spirit be my guide. As for the "sons of God" and "daughters of men" I have some thoughts on that also but will continue my reading and note taking before I state an opinion.

May God bless you also and I am going to continue on now.

I suppose that could be true (about mankind being created on the 6th day, getting wiped out, and then Adam and Eve being created later...much later. We simply do not know because of course the bible does not tell us that, and in the end when we get to heaven then I am sure we will have answers to all these sorts of questions. The main thing is that we believe in God and that he sent his son to die for our sins. Amen.

Thank you for your interesting thoughts.

Hello my name is Randy. First let me say I love the commentary and discussion area. I have been a Christian a long time since 1978 and am reading and studying the Bible from the beginning again. I wonder about Gensis verses 26 and 27, It says "God said, let us make man in our image and let them" and in verse 27 " He created man male and Female". My question is in addition to Adam and Eve were there other men and women?

Agapeo ALWAYS One of the most interesting observation in my walk, we as believers are to put on all meekness and humility

not saying door mat but genuine humbleness of mind. Instead a lot of so called Christians have a self righteous attitude

and with unbelievers if you don't believe your going straight to hell. Show me that kind of mind set with Jesus Christ in

the Gospels and I'LL EAT THE BOOK. Now when it came to those in power yes he called it the way it is, but to those who

came to Him with genuine heart to be delivered they got delivered. The way I see it judge not for thou shalt be judged,

and above all walk in love because that's what delivered me. Also consider 2 COR. 4:4 WHO HAS THEM BLINDED the same

god that did the same to me. Bottom line our occupation we plant we water but GOD GIVES THE INCREASE. BELIEVERS

AND I'M SAYING PEOPLE I KNOW tell me how evil the gov. and people in office are well their people and so were we. My

bible says to pray for those in office not ridicule but doctrine. We who choose stand and walk must stay on mark to

not let Gods love in us wax cold Math 24:12 because it was the LOVE OF GOD that delivered us and melted the hardness

in hearts so lets endeavor to keep it soft and as Ephesians 4:32 tenderhearted thats the goal that will deliver oithers if they

choose to believe and continue to make us whole. We already know everything in this world will wax or become worse and

worse so my mind endeavors to think about things above Col.3:1-5 because that's all that really counts.

How are we too be?

The first thing that comes to mind, is a need from the Holy One! Only He knows what we need and when! If I know these things, then I should be happy!

Maybe Im not as happy as I should or could be ,and if not why?

The things around us are changing all the time. Are we consumned it seems with that which is past, and present, thinking somehow in this life, we should be happier than what we are? Are these the signs of the times? Or, are these thoughts the consequences of abiding in Him? Are these the offences that He speaks that will come too those who worship Him?

Are these things of the spirit of God!

So, How do we get to that place? Tell me How!

How do we get to the place where this Holy One will take our place, will become one with us? I hear the prophets and apostles words, I see Jesus walking and healing, and yet I am not filled! Maybe, I am not saved?

How can I know this love that passes all understanding? Must I be touched? Is it true that this corruption must put on incorruption? Why can we not experiance this incorruption now? I hear the voices! I hear the questions, I sence that these wish to see Him , this one called the WORD! Cry out! Cry out, for ourredemption draws nigh.

If you are in this place, than you are in Him! Love one another in all things, for the evil one has come and desires your soul!

Watch! I say watch! Repent and be Baptized

Hello Postmyers:

There is only one Gospel and that is the Lord Jesus Christ is God. I have no idea what those people you mentioned because I tend to Listen to God and God alone. I humbly say successful peace and joy are feelings I have within. My life experiences can also attest to it. Despite illnesses, God gives me joy and hope whether I live long or be taken away. The entire Bible is a magnificent Book-Old and New Testament. The best God ever given to human to know the real deal what really happened-History, Geography, Mathematics, Science, Economics, Political Science, English Literature, etc. If I were the King of the day, I will build a school with the foundation ONLY based on pure KJV Bible. Now I can say that in retrospect after going through all my highest educational experiences. I know we have been dumb down by men, but I am so very happy we have a God that is greater than man. I will leave you with Malachi 4:2-3 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts. Peace to you and Glory to God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Hello Richard:

Totally agree with you. Evil in this world is more prominent than ever. I was actually close to death twice: one I was drowning with my own water and my organs are shutting down; next my heart totally stops due to COVID. I can attest to you that there is indeed heaven and hell. I can't understand the urgency for me to re-read the Bible until I found this site. I noticed the mixture of frustrations and anger and love comments. I know in my heart these people seek truth. I also know that these people believe in Jesus Christ's Life, death and resurrection according to the scriptures. I do not understand is that we are reading the same Bible KJV and one says something and another person says different. Are we not one in God? The only explanation is that people listen to man. Malachi 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?

Only listen to God. For example: Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Are we not understanding English? If I tell you, you are Richard and upon this rock I will build my church. Does it make sense to say you built the church? No. The rock is Jesus Christ. It tells you the story of Moses hitting the rock to flow waters for them to drink. It is a prophetic sign for Jesus Christ. That is why you read the whole chapter then a few verses down, there is reason why Jesus called Peter a Satan. We do not listen to man. Period. Now Jesus fulfilled ALL in ALL. We the believers of Jesus Christ's blood are even more powerful because we have the Holy Spirit. For 2,000 years we are led by man. We are at the end of grace whether you are old age close to death, with terminal illness, unavoidable or unfortunate accident to end our lives, or the so-called rapture. WE NEED ONLY LISTEN TO GOD

Satan: A proper assessment

We are warned by Christ that if an army comes with more men then we have; we have to assess our strength and plan accordingly. ( Luke 14:31). Since Satan is the "god of this world" ( 2 Cor. 4:4) and Christ never disputed with him about being given authority over the Kingdoms of the earth ( Luke 4:6) we only have 3 options. Namely; to either worship Satan; surrender to Him; or operate in the power of the Holy Spirit through Christ who has overcome hell and the grave and who exercises all authority over heaven and earth. ( Matt. 28:18).

The scope of Satan's rulership; therefore is interwoven throughout the world governments; institutions; and hierarchy. It is entangled throughout every false religion of the earth. The imaginations of men are blinded to the Gospel truth; and his desires are always to lead men to their destruction by giving them delusions that they can hold onto their possessions; loved ones; or positions in life forever. God therefore must do a miraculous transformation when one is "Born Again" so that they realize that they were headed for eternal damnation on the wide road until the narrow path was revealed to them. Satan himself can certainly fear Christ and knows that he is defeated; but there is no love for Him. If he can continue to control our lives after salvation and render us ineffective; we stand to lose our rewards and therefore risk an early departure from this life ( 1 Cor. 11:30).

Therefore; the war is won but many battles continue. We can be as Christ trusting God the road He has predestined for us in order to complete the works for us prepared from before creation ( Eph. 2:10). Pain and suffering are all necessary even though none of us can grasp it fully. As long as we are walking in the Spirit Satan cannot affect our soul. If we allow sin in any part of our lives; however God can and does use the enemy to oppress us. He can allow physical affliction as well as we see with Paul (2Cor12:8

The "socially incorrect" Jesus. Anyone that passes off Christ as demonstrating what the world considers "humanitarianism" in love toward everyone and acceptance is in for a rude awakening; particularly when reading Luke 11. We start off with His careful explanation on a type and model of HOW to pray (apparently based on similar patterns by John the Baptist to HIS disciples (v. 1). This; of course is found elsewhere in slightly different form in the Gospels. Then; there is the explanation on perseverance in asking the giver of all things for good gifts (i.e. the Holy Spirit in v. 13). Christ almost gets through this account without any unpleasant statements until that last verse when he states that they are "evil." So much for putting the Disciples who were; BTW saints as ALL true believers were (minus Judas Iscariot) at some sanctimonious level above the rest of any sinners saved by grace.

At this point; all bets are off. Jesus has to deal with the hearts of Pharisees; with their thoughts; or comments about Him using the Devil's (Beelzebub) power to cast out demons; and to the crowd in general saying that they are an "evil generation" seeking a sign (v. 29); then warning about light being darkness in us (or Satan appearing as an angel of light).

Finally; in verse 38 we see what would be considered (to say the least) bad manners after an invite to a meal. A simple concept of lack of handwashing which seemed trivial ended up in a railing accusation to the hypocrisy within for Pharisees in general. Then; to add insult to injury after He was informed that the lawyers were insulted He went after them!

(I would imagine there was a lot of indigestion there at that time).

The concept of righteous indignation especially among "religious" folks today seems like an ancient artifact. If judgment begins at the house of God; who is sounding the trumpet today?

2 ND COR. 4 : 4 .KJV ..In whom the god of this present world has blinded the minds of them that believe not....Lest the light of this glorious Gospel of Christ who is the image of God should shine in them....Satan is truly the god of this present world...

Our beautiful America has become another Sodom and Gomarrah....And our leaders love it so....They say we must be politically correct ....God have mercy on this nation and all the world.

......ALL the world is becoming another Sodom and Gomarrah....And satan is the father of it....As Jesus said that Satan is the Father of all lies...GB...Plead the BLOOD of Jesus on all your Children every day....His blood is that New COVENANT that we all have to drink...Spiritually speaking...GB

I am trying to understand, were there Christians before Jesus', (example 521 AD?

Who was Mathias

Hi Carl lemme give ya my slant on this world and All the evil that is in it....From the time of ADAM to this present time ....Satan has tried to destroy mans life with wars and such....But God always worked with a few folks like Abraham and Issac and Jacob and Joseph....But there was none righteous no not one....Simply b/c Satan is the GOD of this present world and has Blinded the eyes of our leaders....OF ALL NATIONS....Just look at Russsia and this horrible war that is going on there....not even going to mention the horrible unrest in the streets of AMERICA A CHRISTIAN NATION....SUPPOSEBLY.....Our leaders are possesed with the Devil.

......Satan is truly the God of this present world....Even at this present time we are all taken with the things of this world.

.......But the GOOD NEWS is Christ that 2 nd adam has died for ALL THE WORLD.....He paid the price for every body.

........Many times i think about the 6.5 million JEWS that died in Hitlers death Camps....Satan is truly the God of this present

WORLD.....In Adam we all die but in Christ Jesus we will ALL LIVE....There is a new COVENANT ON THE HORIZON WHICH

STATES " I WILL KNOW THEM ALL FROM THE LEAST TO THE GREATEST) ...When that Book is opened in the Fathers right hand...

.....Any way Carl thank you for that post GBU in Jesus name.

Satan did this and God allowed it in this circumstance. It tested his faith. All of us have our faith tested, but fortunately not usually to this extreme. If we have never had our faith tested then we should be prepared because that time will come.

Hello Carl. To your comment, "Sheer numbers warrant that no one should ever be able to contrive any form of oppression over a mass number of people. But yet it happens. Why? Because of no leadership? A very interesting thought and I continue to question why it is still happening today."

Theoretically, yes. Practically, it is the leadership (government), however small numerically, who has the power & the resources to back it up. Generally, the populace hasn't got the will, stamina, or firepower to withstand a govt. At times, coups have been mounted, some successful, most others, not so. But for the preservation of life & family and lack of equivalent or greater ordnance, most would rather be subjected to despotic regimes or at best, attempt flight.

I don't think any nation has ever seen a righteous government, which upholds the Laws of God, abhors evil, metes out true justice & shows true compassion. Governments are as wicked as the people whom they're supposed to serve and I believe, will have a lot more to answer for in that day of reckoning.

Hi Ken. What you read in Genesis 19:5, is what we would term a euphemism, i.e. a word or phrase that softens the actual wording which may sound harsh to some. So when the men of Sodom came to Lot's door wanting the two visitors to be brought out so "they might know them", means, that these Sodomites (young & old) were of homosexual bent & wanted to sexually engage with these visitors. Such was the condition of that city, given to all manner of evil & not just homosexuality, which necessitated the outpouring of the Anger of the LORD upon them.