Hiya Chris GM...Sorry for taking so long to answer you... i just now noticed your reply...Sorry again....OK ...Chris God wants perfect praise thats the only way he will recieve any thing from man is by man being bornagain of an incorruptible seed...Outa of the mouths of babes and Sucklings thou has Perfected Praise....We are are gonna have a baby Christ which is the H.G...As that which is born of the spirit is spirit....Thats our new innerman the H.G. That cannot speak for a while simply b/c he is an infant...Remember Jesus said when he the spirit of truth is come he wd not speak of himself...Simply b/c he is a spiritual infant
.....Chris God cd not have told Moses that his name was Abraham Issac and Jacob and my memorial to all generations...If his Kingdom were a not a Abrahamic Type Trinity....When Abraham offered up his only son Issac it points to God offering up his son Jesus...Infact the ram caught in the thicket by his horns was a type of Christ and his crown of thorns....A 5 yr old can see this. So with this in mind we see that Gods name is indeed Abraham Issac and Jacob...FATHER SON AND GRANSON like Abraham Isaac Jacob...Just as Issac was the Child of Promise in the O.T....Now in the N.T. Its Christ that is the Child of Promise...Thus Jacob is a type of the H.G. the 3 rd person....That heavenly Jacob that Isaiah writes about in 49 is a spritual Jacob An Israel of God that is gonna be multiplied as the stars of Heaven...A spritual ppl that are gonna be born in humanity the H.G..The Children of Promise the multiplication of very God in Humanity via the seed of the sower.
....Christ you asked y should we preach now if everybody is gonna be saved....Chris ya gotta remember what Jesus said I am the light of the world BUT the NITE comes when no man can work....Impling a time of darkness.. That great falling away...The day of the lord cannot come till there 1st come a great falling away and that man of sin be revealed....Nothin can be done till the book is open.
I was looking into that today. You're not the only one wondering about marriage, sex and babies, in heaven.
Babies born now, to unsaved mothers; will be raptured. Not the mother. God will be their Father. That's just the way it is.
If you read what is to come, upon the earth: in 2 Peter 3
You can make an informed choice. It's burning now, but it's being sold to us as GLOBAL WARMING. The earth is heating up for the End of Time. Carefully and slowly read that chapter.
We should desire to go to heaven, to be together with children and family of course. But Most importantly, to be with our Savior, Jesus.
Now is the time to be born again; marry and have your babies.
The way I understand it, only humans who choose to go through the Tribulation, followed by the Great Tribulation (when Antichrist will murder anyone who does not have his mark in their hand or forehead) will be slaughtered. There will be no food. No fresh water. It will be poisoned by destroyed nuclear reactors.
So you'd have to survive all that and Armageddon to have Jesus take you to heaven IF you had received Him to be your Savior. If you miss the rapture, you have to make it through the destruction of earths inhabitants, to make it to heaven to be able to bear children.
You're not the only one asking this question. There is a Tribulation Movie you can watch on YouTube:
"Blesson Tribulation movie"
You'd have to live through the Entire book of Revelation to be a candidate for marriage & motherhood in heaven. Have you read it through?
Acts 20 : 28 Feed the Church of God that he has purchased with his own Blood....The redemption of Humanity wd be of no effect unless Jesus was God the Son....Man's Blood cd not atone for sins PERIOD....All men carried the stain and the spot of Adam....There was none righteous no not one....Behold the lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world.....The blood of God...Jesus....As he was the LIVING WORD made flesh and blood.
I'm probably not going to answer this Biblically enough. If you have a destination in mind_you buy a ticket and go stand on the train platform for boarding.
If we wait to do something or respond; until "we feel like it", the moment can completely pass by us.
No one is guaranteed tomorrow. Best to move on it when it today. " Today if you hear My Voice"
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised)
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Comment: in verse 25 we see the reason to attend church. To encourage each other, to pray together. Some people come in the doors beat up by life that week. This is our chance to please the Lord by being obedient to these Bible verses. One arm squeeze can mean a lot to someone; it says "I care."
Social media doesn't offer that. It's everyone at home typing on a keyboard. I don't group this website into that media. We're typing yes, but we are genuinely interested in helping others with spiritual questions or just in need of prayer.
Well Rob, I don't struggle with this as the Scriptures are clear to me. You asked if there was a "man at the right hand of God?" To answer that as you gave it, I would say NO, only because that short statement doesn't reflect Christ's true personality & remains open to confusion & speculation. It only reflects His Humanity, devoid of His eternal existence & the Nature of His Resurrection.
But if you asked, 'is there One called Jesus Christ, who came to Earth from Heaven ( John 3:13; John 6:38), from within the Person of God ( John 1:1-14), to become Man, died, arose from the grave, & now ascended to the right Hand of the Father, ever living as the Word of God made flesh (where Divinity has merged with Humanity) making intercession for His people, & one day returning to Earth in the same state that He left this Earth (as the Word of God: Revelation 19:13)?', then I would say, YES. Any other Jesus is, from my understanding of the Scriptures, to be another Jesus - One assumed maybe from incorrect teaching and/or a bias against the Plan of God to secure our salvation.
If I avoided certain pertinent Scriptures revealing the full Nature of Christ, I could well agree with you. And some of us have shared those Scriptures, but receiving no exposition.
Thanks brother Jesse. I had not looked at Matthew chapter 1 in that way. That gives greater clarity & substantiates the miraculous birth of Jesus as One wholly from God without any human input.
I've always maintained that Mary contributed nothing to Jesus' Conception except being the 'vehicle' for delivering the Son of God, but often hear that Jesus received His Human side through her (i.e. her blood, DNA, etc.). Maybe that's true in part but I feel that this Holy Embryo had no human contribution to it.
I believe that what you've shared in these pages now, prove that this Birth was wholly of God, & His Humanity was in fulfilment of the prophecies that went before Him, His identification with the people He (primarily) came for, and of course, that His Life might be sacrificed as an atonement for theirs & our sins. That the sacrifice had to be from within the Deity (seen now as His Son in the flesh), or else any other sacrifice would not satisfy the oft declared Nature of God, i.e. of His great Love for all mankind.
Would any other sacrifice suffice to adequately deal with our sin, except that divinity should take on humanity for the suffering of death? Can we read of God's great love for us in the Word & believe that anything other than Himself could truly express that love? I don't believe anything or anyone else could - it had to be all of God. Thanks again for sharing those insights into the Word.
Hi Diego. I don't believe that Numbers 5:27 supports abortion. As you have probably read the whole chapter, specifically from verses 12 to 31, you can see that determining the guilt is intended & not the destruction of the embryo.
If the husband becomes suspicious of his wife, that she has been unfaithful to him, his wife would be brought to the priest for judging whether the husband's anger & suspicions are warranted. When the priest applies the test of the 'bitter waters', with the curse that if "her belly does not swell nor her thigh rot", then she is innocent & she will be able to become pregnant by her husband. But if guilty, then she will suffer physically & be a cast-off from society. These verses don't speak of whether conception had taken place if she was guilty - but certainly her organs around the belly might well include the womb which no longer would be able to bear children. I don't see anything more than the suffering of a guilty woman or the health of an innocent woman.
Interesting verse to describe how God had to anoint Jesus with the Holy Ghost and power. Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
John 10:29 is not talking about predestination and predestination has nothing to do with God choosing who goes to Heaven and who goes to Hell. John 10:29 is showing the permanency of salvation to those who are presently saved.
In Ezekiel, where you see son of man in lower case, it is referring to the prophet Ezekiel. The phrase son of man would be the same as just saying man. Jesus many times in the New Testament calls Himself the Son of man referring to His humanity. Something also interesting to note is that in the Greek text, it has a definite article "the" before Son of man when referring to Jesus. He is the Son of man. It does not have a definite article before son of man when referring to Ezekiel. It just says son of man.
So you have son of man and Son of man. Jesus is also called Jesus Son of the Father, but did you know that there is someone else in the Bible whose name is Jesus son of the father?
Ephesians 1:3-10. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places( IN CHRIST:)
According as he hath chosen us
( IN HIM ) before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted ( IN THE BELOVED.)
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times HE MIGHT GATHER TOGETHER( IN ONE ) ALL THINGS IN CHRIST, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even IN HIM:
So we have a way and a body ( The body of Christ ) that was fore ordained before the foundation of the world that we have been baptized into.
God stands on the out side of time and sees the beginning and the end of the life of man like a picture. He's is foreknowing and his omniscience is not confounded by the present, It's future.
Psalms 139:2 Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought AFAR OFF.
Example: Isaiah 46:10.
1 Peter 1:19-20 also tells us God knew Adam would sin. "But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
No one is predetermined as you put it but God knows before hand who would come to him so by his foreknowledge he uses us as vessels as seen in Romans 9:21.
Dear Alex. We've been on this route before, hence my lack of responses to you. You believe that all mankind will be saved one day, even if it means some cleansing in judgement for preparation to salvation. You believe one is only born again at the last day in preparation for eternity. But you've never answered my questions put to you several times in the past, as to why should the Gospel be preached, if in the end God is bound to save all mankind? Why are we instructed to live holy lives now, dealing with sin, when eventually we will all be saved? You seem to propose some type of purgatory for full cleansing - maybe to attain rebirth.
I realize that I've shared my own understanding of what I glean from your posts, but writing about 'baby Christs, Father, Son & Grandson, God's Name is Abraham, Isaac & Jacob', & such like, I find in contradiction to God's Word. But then you would know this from our earlier discussions. I believe you're a fine upstanding man who loves the Lord immensely, but I find you provide near to nothing as a basis for any meaningful discussion. You're interpretations & spiritualizations are far to extreme & remote for me to even understand. So, if you're prepared to answer my questions at face value & not get into obscure interpretations, we might have something to discuss. So thank you for your time & God bless.
I Agree with Brother Chris "God knowing beforehand the choices that we make & the way our lives will unfold" and the Gospel goes out to all, the invitation is for all, but not all will respond!!
1 John 2:2. And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Matthew 7:13-14. Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, AND FEW THERE BE THAT FIND IT.
Galatians 3:22. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given TO THEM THAT BELIEVE.
Ephesians 1:12-13. That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also AFTER THAT YE BELIEVED, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
So let's make it clear
Romans 10:8-15 is what's relevant.
But look at verse 16. "But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Here's my thought on this that I'm sure can be improved on.
Romans 9:11. (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, THAT THE PURPOSE OF GOD ACCORDING TO ELECTION might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) Here we have God's way that He Elected..
Next we have "WHEN" God's way was Elected.
Ephesians 1:4. According as he hath chosen us ( IN ) him BEFORE THE FOUNDATION of THE WORLD...
You may find it easier to understand if we look at it as the church or the body of Christ instead of Individuals.
Dear Brenda, a lot can be said. You can take into account the following verse.
1 John 1:7
"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, WE HAVE FELLOWSHIP ONE WITH ANOTHER , and (then) the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
Predestination in the sense that God knows who is going to accept Jesus' sacrifice and be saved and predestined them for eternal life, then yes this is right. But predestination in the sense that God planned beforehand whom He is going to save and act accordingly, then no this is wrong. If the latter was true then God wouldn't be righteous. Love, Truth and Righteousness is God's nature. God will not condemn people for what they would or wouldn't have done bur for what they do or don't. The verse you state from John means that nobody can take us from God, as long as we stay on the right path. Interpretation of verses must always be done in accordance to all other verses that are related to the same topic.
Predestination, like .secured salvation no matter what, in my opinion are wrong beliefs.
Another great example of what the original language can uncover! But even in the English text when taking the whole body of scripture you have to work extra hard and ignore a ton of scripture to deny the deity of Christ.
Leviticus 19:19 Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee.
If God doesn't want us MIXING cattle with a diverse kind, or a sow a field with MIXED SEED, it seems to me he wouldn't want Jews and Gentiles mixing or people of different races mixing. (mixed-race-marriages, mixed-race-offspring)
John 10:30 (Jesus speaking) "I and my Father are one."
If God said "Thou shalt not", Jesus wouldn't contradict Him. No where did Jesus say mixed-race (fooling around) was okay.
1 Kings Chapter 11:
1 But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites;
2 Of the nations concerning which the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love.
.....and as a result, Solomon's wives brought their idols into his house.
Mishael , u break my heart bro , I know your faith is strong , don't b scared , you know where u r going , sooner or later but hopefully later . My heart is with u .
Does Jesus ever tell lie ? No , he definately does not ever lie . John Ch 10 V 36 . John Ch 10 V 30 , John Ch 14 V 20 . John Ch 14 V 6-10 . Honestly , it seems very clear to me .
You are probably aware of the verse about us being as the "angels of heaven" ( Mark 12:25). This of course refers to the Resurrection body. There is the question of those who may be pregnant at the time of the rapture. We are all "changed" so there is no real way of knowing whether a pregnancy would continue within the womb or somehow outside of it; in either case it seems scriptural that at least children of believers would go with them to heaven although it can't be proven. That also would have the infant changed into an immortal body if he or she ends up in heaven. It does seem certain from David's comment on the child he lost after sinning with Bathsheeba along with other scriptures that the souls of all unborn will end up in heaven and someday be Resurrected. People want to say all kids will be raptured; I can't see that proven scripturally; just that the souls of all unborn kids will make it to heaven if they die before a certain age.
Anyway; of course there will be the few that survive through the Tribulation who have kids; many of whom will live until the end of the Millennium; hence being those who ARE in the Book of Life at the Great White Throne Judgment IF they are not killed due to some sort of sin beforehand ( Isaiah 65:20). After the Millenium; it would appear that all mortals also enter immortality; once the new heaven and new earth are created.
These issues shouldn't of course be a distraction to plans now; having children and getting married. It is good; however to put our mind on things above ( Colossians 3:1-10). God can give us contentedness now; and surely we will rejoice in heaven and not miss our earthly existence. There is always a tendency to concern ourselves with all the things of this world; rather than casting our cares on Him; especially today. Of course it is always best to have a healthy church community which seems to be found more often in the Reformed churches. May He give you wisdom in these trying times.
Thanks. I am going to study John; then be out of town at the end of next week for4 or 5 days. I have had time to put a lot of material on this site; which will be somewhat reduced this fall Lord willing when I am scheduled to go back to my part time job.
There are things in my own life that need work; as we all do. As you stated; most people are aware of the 2 points of view. I can't see any other view than God's predetermined plan in John. Since John is the first gospel and often the main thing new believers re expected to read; I thought it was particularly relevant. Also; there is a focus on much of what Jesus Himself said; which certainly reflects later in the epistles of Paul; as well as even the book of Revelation.
The best we can do is trust God; read all things with integrity (i.e. in regard to verses mentioning the "whole world" and man's responsibility) and focus on what we do know. That requires us to test ourselves to see if we are in the faith. ( 2 Cor. 13:5-6).
It also involves our resolution and desire to heed His voice; at least in determining our spiritual maturity; and hence REWARDS we recieve or are withheld from because of the quality of our service. A primary issue is whether God can break trough beyond what all humans can perceive; that is the invisible creation and Godhead as Romans 1 indicates. There are muddy issues involved; for instance if God hears prayers of the wicked (Job would seem to deny it but we must keep in mind not all the advice given to him was appropriate). There are other prayers of the wicked at their death calling to God which scripture indicates at some point He will ignore. ( Jeremiah 11:14 for one).
Nonetheless; IF a person genuinely asks God to show them the truth; and they are willing to find out no matter how bad; I have to believe He will reveal sin righteousness and judgment to come ( John 16:8). God's Holiness must be revealed as beyond any so called virtue of human love to be saved as i see it.
In the old testament I see "Son" of man, and "son" of man. Particularly in the book of Ezekiel. Often together in the same verse. What does it mean, or to whom is God speaking?
.....Chris God cd not have told Moses that his name was Abraham Issac and Jacob and my memorial to all generations...If his Kingdom were a not a Abrahamic Type Trinity....When Abraham offered up his only son Issac it points to God offering up his son Jesus...Infact the ram caught in the thicket by his horns was a type of Christ and his crown of thorns....A 5 yr old can see this. So with this in mind we see that Gods name is indeed Abraham Issac and Jacob...FATHER SON AND GRANSON like Abraham Isaac Jacob...Just as Issac was the Child of Promise in the O.T....Now in the N.T. Its Christ that is the Child of Promise...Thus Jacob is a type of the H.G. the 3 rd person....That heavenly Jacob that Isaiah writes about in 49 is a spritual Jacob An Israel of God that is gonna be multiplied as the stars of Heaven...A spritual ppl that are gonna be born in humanity the H.G..The Children of Promise the multiplication of very God in Humanity via the seed of the sower.
....Christ you asked y should we preach now if everybody is gonna be saved....Chris ya gotta remember what Jesus said I am the light of the world BUT the NITE comes when no man can work....Impling a time of darkness.. That great falling away...The day of the lord cannot come till there 1st come a great falling away and that man of sin be revealed....Nothin can be done till the book is open.
Babies born now, to unsaved mothers; will be raptured. Not the mother. God will be their Father. That's just the way it is.
If you read what is to come, upon the earth: in 2 Peter 3
You can make an informed choice. It's burning now, but it's being sold to us as GLOBAL WARMING. The earth is heating up for the End of Time. Carefully and slowly read that chapter.
We should desire to go to heaven, to be together with children and family of course. But Most importantly, to be with our Savior, Jesus.
Now is the time to be born again; marry and have your babies.
The way I understand it, only humans who choose to go through the Tribulation, followed by the Great Tribulation (when Antichrist will murder anyone who does not have his mark in their hand or forehead) will be slaughtered. There will be no food. No fresh water. It will be poisoned by destroyed nuclear reactors.
So you'd have to survive all that and Armageddon to have Jesus take you to heaven IF you had received Him to be your Savior. If you miss the rapture, you have to make it through the destruction of earths inhabitants, to make it to heaven to be able to bear children.
You're not the only one asking this question. There is a Tribulation Movie you can watch on YouTube:
"Blesson Tribulation movie"
You'd have to live through the Entire book of Revelation to be a candidate for marriage & motherhood in heaven. Have you read it through?
If we wait to do something or respond; until "we feel like it", the moment can completely pass by us.
No one is guaranteed tomorrow. Best to move on it when it today. " Today if you hear My Voice"
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised)
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Comment: in verse 25 we see the reason to attend church. To encourage each other, to pray together. Some people come in the doors beat up by life that week. This is our chance to please the Lord by being obedient to these Bible verses. One arm squeeze can mean a lot to someone; it says "I care."
Social media doesn't offer that. It's everyone at home typing on a keyboard. I don't group this website into that media. We're typing yes, but we are genuinely interested in helping others with spiritual questions or just in need of prayer.
But if you asked, 'is there One called Jesus Christ, who came to Earth from Heaven ( John 3:13; John 6:38), from within the Person of God ( John 1:1-14), to become Man, died, arose from the grave, & now ascended to the right Hand of the Father, ever living as the Word of God made flesh (where Divinity has merged with Humanity) making intercession for His people, & one day returning to Earth in the same state that He left this Earth (as the Word of God: Revelation 19:13)?', then I would say, YES. Any other Jesus is, from my understanding of the Scriptures, to be another Jesus - One assumed maybe from incorrect teaching and/or a bias against the Plan of God to secure our salvation.
If I avoided certain pertinent Scriptures revealing the full Nature of Christ, I could well agree with you. And some of us have shared those Scriptures, but receiving no exposition.
I've always maintained that Mary contributed nothing to Jesus' Conception except being the 'vehicle' for delivering the Son of God, but often hear that Jesus received His Human side through her (i.e. her blood, DNA, etc.). Maybe that's true in part but I feel that this Holy Embryo had no human contribution to it.
I believe that what you've shared in these pages now, prove that this Birth was wholly of God, & His Humanity was in fulfilment of the prophecies that went before Him, His identification with the people He (primarily) came for, and of course, that His Life might be sacrificed as an atonement for theirs & our sins. That the sacrifice had to be from within the Deity (seen now as His Son in the flesh), or else any other sacrifice would not satisfy the oft declared Nature of God, i.e. of His great Love for all mankind.
Would any other sacrifice suffice to adequately deal with our sin, except that divinity should take on humanity for the suffering of death? Can we read of God's great love for us in the Word & believe that anything other than Himself could truly express that love? I don't believe anything or anyone else could - it had to be all of God. Thanks again for sharing those insights into the Word.
If the husband becomes suspicious of his wife, that she has been unfaithful to him, his wife would be brought to the priest for judging whether the husband's anger & suspicions are warranted. When the priest applies the test of the 'bitter waters', with the curse that if "her belly does not swell nor her thigh rot", then she is innocent & she will be able to become pregnant by her husband. But if guilty, then she will suffer physically & be a cast-off from society. These verses don't speak of whether conception had taken place if she was guilty - but certainly her organs around the belly might well include the womb which no longer would be able to bear children. I don't see anything more than the suffering of a guilty woman or the health of an innocent woman.
John 10:29 is not talking about predestination and predestination has nothing to do with God choosing who goes to Heaven and who goes to Hell. John 10:29 is showing the permanency of salvation to those who are presently saved.
In Ezekiel, where you see son of man in lower case, it is referring to the prophet Ezekiel. The phrase son of man would be the same as just saying man. Jesus many times in the New Testament calls Himself the Son of man referring to His humanity. Something also interesting to note is that in the Greek text, it has a definite article "the" before Son of man when referring to Jesus. He is the Son of man. It does not have a definite article before son of man when referring to Ezekiel. It just says son of man.
So you have son of man and Son of man. Jesus is also called Jesus Son of the Father, but did you know that there is someone else in the Bible whose name is Jesus son of the father?
Please notice what's highlighted.
Ephesians 1:3-10. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places( IN CHRIST:)
According as he hath chosen us
( IN HIM ) before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted ( IN THE BELOVED.)
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times HE MIGHT GATHER TOGETHER( IN ONE ) ALL THINGS IN CHRIST, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even IN HIM:
So we have a way and a body ( The body of Christ ) that was fore ordained before the foundation of the world that we have been baptized into.
God stands on the out side of time and sees the beginning and the end of the life of man like a picture. He's is foreknowing and his omniscience is not confounded by the present, It's future.
Psalms 139:2 Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought AFAR OFF.
Example: Isaiah 46:10.
1 Peter 1:19-20 also tells us God knew Adam would sin. "But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
No one is predetermined as you put it but God knows before hand who would come to him so by his foreknowledge he uses us as vessels as seen in Romans 9:21.
I hope this helps
God bless.
I realize that I've shared my own understanding of what I glean from your posts, but writing about 'baby Christs, Father, Son & Grandson, God's Name is Abraham, Isaac & Jacob', & such like, I find in contradiction to God's Word. But then you would know this from our earlier discussions. I believe you're a fine upstanding man who loves the Lord immensely, but I find you provide near to nothing as a basis for any meaningful discussion. You're interpretations & spiritualizations are far to extreme & remote for me to even understand. So, if you're prepared to answer my questions at face value & not get into obscure interpretations, we might have something to discuss. So thank you for your time & God bless.
Part 1.
I Agree with Brother Chris "God knowing beforehand the choices that we make & the way our lives will unfold" and the Gospel goes out to all, the invitation is for all, but not all will respond!!
1 John 2:2. And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Matthew 7:13-14. Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, AND FEW THERE BE THAT FIND IT.
Galatians 3:22. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given TO THEM THAT BELIEVE.
Ephesians 1:12-13. That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also AFTER THAT YE BELIEVED, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
So let's make it clear
Romans 10:8-15 is what's relevant.
But look at verse 16. "But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Here's my thought on this that I'm sure can be improved on.
Romans 9:11. (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, THAT THE PURPOSE OF GOD ACCORDING TO ELECTION might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) Here we have God's way that He Elected..
Next we have "WHEN" God's way was Elected.
Ephesians 1:4. According as he hath chosen us ( IN ) him BEFORE THE FOUNDATION of THE WORLD...
You may find it easier to understand if we look at it as the church or the body of Christ instead of Individuals.
See part 2.
1 John 1:7
"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, WE HAVE FELLOWSHIP ONE WITH ANOTHER , and (then) the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
GBU
Predestination in the sense that God knows who is going to accept Jesus' sacrifice and be saved and predestined them for eternal life, then yes this is right. But predestination in the sense that God planned beforehand whom He is going to save and act accordingly, then no this is wrong. If the latter was true then God wouldn't be righteous. Love, Truth and Righteousness is God's nature. God will not condemn people for what they would or wouldn't have done bur for what they do or don't. The verse you state from John means that nobody can take us from God, as long as we stay on the right path. Interpretation of verses must always be done in accordance to all other verses that are related to the same topic.
Predestination, like .secured salvation no matter what, in my opinion are wrong beliefs.
GBU
Another great example of what the original language can uncover! But even in the English text when taking the whole body of scripture you have to work extra hard and ignore a ton of scripture to deny the deity of Christ.
Thanks and God bless.
If God doesn't want us MIXING cattle with a diverse kind, or a sow a field with MIXED SEED, it seems to me he wouldn't want Jews and Gentiles mixing or people of different races mixing. (mixed-race-marriages, mixed-race-offspring)
John 10:30 (Jesus speaking) "I and my Father are one."
If God said "Thou shalt not", Jesus wouldn't contradict Him. No where did Jesus say mixed-race (fooling around) was okay.
1 Kings Chapter 11:
1 But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites;
2 Of the nations concerning which the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love.
.....and as a result, Solomon's wives brought their idols into his house.
Anyway; of course there will be the few that survive through the Tribulation who have kids; many of whom will live until the end of the Millennium; hence being those who ARE in the Book of Life at the Great White Throne Judgment IF they are not killed due to some sort of sin beforehand ( Isaiah 65:20). After the Millenium; it would appear that all mortals also enter immortality; once the new heaven and new earth are created.
These issues shouldn't of course be a distraction to plans now; having children and getting married. It is good; however to put our mind on things above ( Colossians 3:1-10). God can give us contentedness now; and surely we will rejoice in heaven and not miss our earthly existence. There is always a tendency to concern ourselves with all the things of this world; rather than casting our cares on Him; especially today. Of course it is always best to have a healthy church community which seems to be found more often in the Reformed churches. May He give you wisdom in these trying times.
There are things in my own life that need work; as we all do. As you stated; most people are aware of the 2 points of view. I can't see any other view than God's predetermined plan in John. Since John is the first gospel and often the main thing new believers re expected to read; I thought it was particularly relevant. Also; there is a focus on much of what Jesus Himself said; which certainly reflects later in the epistles of Paul; as well as even the book of Revelation.
The best we can do is trust God; read all things with integrity (i.e. in regard to verses mentioning the "whole world" and man's responsibility) and focus on what we do know. That requires us to test ourselves to see if we are in the faith. ( 2 Cor. 13:5-6).
It also involves our resolution and desire to heed His voice; at least in determining our spiritual maturity; and hence REWARDS we recieve or are withheld from because of the quality of our service. A primary issue is whether God can break trough beyond what all humans can perceive; that is the invisible creation and Godhead as Romans 1 indicates. There are muddy issues involved; for instance if God hears prayers of the wicked (Job would seem to deny it but we must keep in mind not all the advice given to him was appropriate). There are other prayers of the wicked at their death calling to God which scripture indicates at some point He will ignore. ( Jeremiah 11:14 for one).
Nonetheless; IF a person genuinely asks God to show them the truth; and they are willing to find out no matter how bad; I have to believe He will reveal sin righteousness and judgment to come ( John 16:8). God's Holiness must be revealed as beyond any so called virtue of human love to be saved as i see it.