What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD.
Philippians 3
1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.
2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
17Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
18(For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the ENEMIES of the cross of Christ:
19Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind EARTHLY things.)
20For our conversation is in heaven( Ephesians 1:3); from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
Ephesians 6:11-18
11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God,that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day,and having done all,to stand.
14Stand therefore,having your loins girt about with truth,and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16Above all, taking the shield of faith,wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17And take the helmet of salvation,and the sword of the Spirit,which is the word of God:
18Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit,and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints.
What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Word is from everlasting to everslating, the Word is GOD, self-executing, self-executable. Great mystery.
Revelation 22
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. ( Romans 2:12 - As many as have sinned without Law(the Gentiles) shall also PERISH without Law: and as many as have sinned in the Law(the Jews) shall be Judged by the Law;)
15 Without are dogs(dogs? Isaiah 56:10-11.Take a look), and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
But the fearful(the COWARDS), and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and ALL LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
The Word is GOD, self-executing, self-executable, understand?
Spell check messed up part of my reply that is coming up. It should say Christ and the disciples picking and eating corn on the Sabbath out of need. :)
Hi GiGi. Yes there are some things that may be necessary to do on the Sabbath. Get gas or whatever you need to do before Saturday. If you forget and must get it on the Sabbath then this is an exception because it is a need. Like Christ and His deciples eating
Picking corn on Sabbath out if necessity. Common sense is all that is needed to accomplish this obedience so there is no long list of do's abd don't's. Anyone who works on Saturday if they pray and believe God He will make a way out of it. There are plenty of people who have no regard for the things of God who can do what ever needs done. It is not a sin for true believers to worship and fellowship on Sunday. God has only command us to make one day, the seventh, as a complete day of rest and we can also worship since we don't have worldly distractions. Meals could be take out or prepared on Friday like in a slow cooker so everyone can help themselves etc. My whole point is Christians could do it no problem if they wanted to obey this commandment just like the others. God Bless :)
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be(combined with Daniel 12:1-3 and Revelation 12:7-12).
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved( Romans 9:28): but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ ( John 5:43-47), or there; BELIEVE IT NOT.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets( Isaiah 9:15-16 combined with Revelation 12:3-4), and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. - 25 Behold, I have told you before.
I love you too GiGi. We are sisters in the Lord. It's true I used quotes for my view by people repeating history but not false doctrine from a book that is not in the bible. Yes we could go on and discuss other things but we shouldn't use scripture from sources that were not scantion by the Holy Ghost.
I read a little of Barnabas and he seemed to believe our hope for eternal life was something we are to strive for if we behave ourselves until we die. Anyway I only answered your reply because it didnt seem right not to. I have decided to stay with this forum but only with you and Christianlady7.
Keeping the SABBATH was a commandment of God not a law of the Jews. Talk to you soon. God Bless :)
Thank you brother Giannis for sharing more information of the practises of the early Church - all this should be very helpful to those seeking better understanding of what took place in those meetings. And just to add, I've never found any of your posts to be aggressive or hurtful in any way, and have always valued very much your understanding of the Word especially when bringing us added knowledge from the Greek. And of course, calling upon history, if outside of biblical revelation, can always be a sore point; one must investigate further the facts presented rather than blind rejection, for whatever our reason. Truth is paramount: if we believe that the Bible is wholly true (even under testing), then anything that would complement biblical facts must also be given equal scrutiny. Blessings.
The first recording of the teaching of the "rapture" was by Ephraem the Syrian in his most recently found and translation book entitled "Antichrist and the End of the World" in 373AD.
Although I have been agressive to some people on this site in the past (and I have repented about it) I don't think I have been either agressive to Momsage or used words that insult, neither me nor any other person in that discussion about Sabbath. About singling her out how can that be? We don't know each other here on this site neither we have the same beliefs in every topic. When we list all we know about a topic is for making our beliefs solid, not to diminish the other person. Now to what was discussed. Momsage anchored herself to what she has read somewhere and I listed all historical events that I know to make her think that she may have the wrong impression about things she learned. Anyway, does all that mean that when I want to talk about something with others I should not say all that I know because that other person may feel inferior? Is this what you say? Is this right? Personally when someone talks about things that I don't know, such as history, I am very careful about what is said and then I look it up on the net. There is so much information nowadays on there from all sort of sources and it is good not to single out any church or denomination. But as far as the church history is concerned there is a wide acceptance all over the world about specific events in the history of the early church and when we hear something that sounds a bit strange in our ears then that makes us want to wake up that other person. There are some teachers or churches that in order to promote their ideas they twist some things on purpose, and I firmly believe that Momsage has fallen to that trap, because what she says that they say is not the accepted history of the church. We should be very careful in general when we hear something that is in total contrast to what all the others believe. Is is only us or some other specific teachers that God has revealed His truth? Why? Are we something special? Anyway, I think this is enough. Have a blessed day.GBU
I agree with what you have said some things have been used for power and control, the day people go to a church is for their conscience and should not be a division. We see in Acts they were meeting every day of the week. But if I may point out a few things about the eighth day, not to debate but things you may want to study. The eighth day appears in various contexts in the Bible but to my understanding never as a day of the week, there are only seven days of the week.
God told Abraham that male children should be circumcised on the eighth day after their birth. We know now medically on the eighth day after birth, vitamin K in the body is at its highest level on the eighth day, and it is pivotal in blood clotting.
It comes up again with the Feast of Tabernacles on the first day and the eighth day was a holy convocation with no work outside of preparing food could be done, unlike the Passover where the first day and the seventh day were a holy convocation.
The eighth day was used in some sacrifices where it was done on the eighth day after the sin, some in the past have referred to the Lord's Day as the eighth day, referring to a new creation and some say it will be the final day of judgment, but I do not know much about that.
Pentecost, also known as the Feast of Weeks, you count seven Sabbaths after Passover, and it will be the first day after the seventh Sabbath. That makes it the 50th which is the meaning of pentekoste/Pentecost on the first day of the week after 49 days/seven Sabbaths.
They would count each day, this is the first day, this is the second day until the 50th day the second harvest would be presented to God and said it was the same day God gave the law to Moses on Mount Sinai. and the day of the giving of the Holy Spirit, the second harvest.
I hope you don't mind Richard and are not offended; I read and enjoy your posts and hope your health is good.
Hi Christianlady7. I think I already answered this post but there's more I'd like to say to you. I don't know if you saw my last post that said I was leaving this forum because this is suppose to be a KJB only and they were using false verses from the epistle of Barnabas. I would like to stay, and do discussions with you and answer your questions. I certainly don't know everything but scripture from the KJB will be all I'll be using. I'll talked to you some more later if you want to. God Bless :)
God is a consuming fire and it denotes an aspect of His holiness, which is different from what we have here. "And, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.".(Ex.3:2-4). *There was a voice from its midst calling his attention. Naturally the Spirit presents Moses as the double for his Son to which we have a book-end in the transfiguration of Jesus again with a mountain in the backdrop. (St. Matt. 17:1-9).
In both cases we are looking at the glory of God and the tree refers to the tree of righteousness in terms of the tree of life. In the other the glory of spiritual body and the holy mount is another reference to the Son. Thus we have the glory in terms of the Father Son relationship.
Second point to remember is the glory of the Word and Moses with Elijah are served as double for the Son. (See under L-logos). (Ex.3:1-4).
God set up an encounter with Moses and his scholarly turn of mind turned back as foreknown. "And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I".
Spirit of Christ represents the glory which did not consume the tree which foreshadows tree of Life or of righteousness. The voice of the Lord has sent forth the word (Is.55:11). It also augurs the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. (See under M-parallelism)
* Explanation
Compare "And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine."(Re.6:6) The Spirit speaks on a non-verbal mode. While the four beast are continually praising God,holy,holy, holy' they keep their role as MC. They represent Glory of creation and Man as the steward. With each rider they alternate correspondingly. "And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see."(v.7)
You are conflating your perception of what you think is our view of Momsage with what we think. We do not think of her as weaker nor do are any of us intending to "pile on" her. This is not bullying. It is discussing with differing viewpoints. Others who think like Momsage are welcome to join our discussion. We are not singling her out in any way as a bully does, nor are we intentionally targeting her for mistreatment here. That has not occurred.
I can see you are very sensitive to people on this forum who seem weak or the underdog in a discussion in your eyes. I appreciate your compassion. But to call any of us bullies, aggressive, or invective in our posts to her is simply name-calling. You are assuming to know our motives and assume that we are attempting to bully or belittle her. We are definitely not intending this at all. So, please, let's be gracious to one another even as we discuss topics amongst one another. Our aim is to uplift, give thoughts to consider, and to express ideas that someone's original post prompts us to respond to.
I do not think Giannis, myself, or anyone else on this forum was being aggressive to Momsage nor where we trying to promote our selves, our scholarship, or our superiority. If that is what you get from our postings, I must say that you are reading more into what has been presented than what we said or meant. Also, speaking for myself, I like you, considering you a wonderful sister in Christ that God has blessed me with. I am sure others here think the same. So be assured that you are loved and cherished on this forum.
As for me, I try to read almost all of what is posted on this forum because I respect everyone's ideas, that they took the time to post, and that they are brethren. I read most posts because I can learn from others, be made to ponder a topic and then explore it more deeply myself, add my view to the discussion. I can answer a question and I can know prayer requests so I can have the privilege to pray for the need expressed. Yet, each person is free to decide how they participate on this forum and I respect that as well.
So, may you have peace today. May you be encouraged and know that you are appreciated here and loved for who you are in Christ as we all should be. It saddens me to know that you think that some of us do not like you. I hope that God will assure you of your love and acceptance here, especially by those of us who post here. Have a blessed day.
Perhaps you have misunderstood my point concerning the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. The letter int he caser of the Decalogue is very specific but the spirt of the law encompasses so much more than just the acts spoken of in the Decalogue.
We are to be morally sound in our lives, not just in our outward acts, but inwardly, being transformed by the Holy Spirit to will and do what the Father wants us to do.
My post was not meant to be dismissive concerning moral actions. We are not to kill, commit adultery, etc. according to the Decalogue, but in the teachings of Jesus (Sermon on the Mount) and Paul's words concerning the law, we are to go deeper into what the Lord requires of us-not just outward obedience as the Pharisees did, but inwardly, with pureness of heart and true desire to live godly lives in the evil world we live in daily.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
GOD to shine HIS face gloriously on all who love and look forward to HIS coming!
Acts 20:7 makes clear that gathering of the saints occurred on the first day of the week to bolster the collection made according to 1 Corinthians 16:2. The prescident is really from the fact that Christ fulfilled Pentacost which was the 8th day of the week (or Sunday) in the O.T. times was celebrated 50 days after the Passover.
Since we are not to have certain days to be held above others as Romans 14:5-6 indicates; we have no right to dictate either Saturday or Sunday for worship as I see it. Again; the Old Testament command was for Israel specifically as anyone in the land who disrespected the Sabbath was severely punished (see Deuteronomy 5:14). Other laws in the Old Testament such as marriage were clearly upheld even with pagan societies (as we see with the case of John the Baptist when he was imprisoned for contesting with the marriage status of a secular leader married to his brother's wife). Murder was evident with Cain well before the law came out. The fact is that Saturday worship can no longer be as it was without the sacrifices and other ordinances of the O.T. times which have been gone since the temple was destroyed in 70 AD. Christ is our Passover now ( 1 Corinthians 5:7) and the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath ( Matthew 12:8).
We also need to consider what Paul stated to those who were coming from pagan societies. He said in Acts 15:29 to avoid eating blood; or strangled animals (often done in pagan rituals) as well as sexual immorality. If Saturday worship was required you would expect something would be mentioned as all other things in the Commandments which are throughout the New Testament in the Gospels and Epistles.
There are further concerns with Adventist doctrines and Ellen White which I am not going to get into detail here; but this often is an added reason for this and other issues of contention. I agree that the edict of Milan enforcing Sunday worship is wrong also.
Matthew Ch 18 V 1-7 , Mark Ch 9 V 33-42 . Do we believe that Jesus is speaking about physical children ? Or about our brothers and sisters in Christ ? Thy Kingdom Come .
May I also say that , when a group of people gang up on a person who they perceive ( rightly or wrongly ) to be weaker than them , that is the very definition of bullying .
I understand your point totally . I believe that we Christians should cherish and nourish each other , we can't do that if we have pushed someone away by using invective and aggressive (by your own admission ) language . We should never belittle each other or make each other feel inferior , either deliberately or accidentally . Some times people disappear from this site without any good bye , do we ever wonder why ? Do we ever consider that we , and I include myself , may have pushed some one away ? We will all have to answer to our Lord for the way we speak to each other , that's a very scary thought to me , I think it should be so to all of us .
I thought that I should address several things here. First of all, if we are to look at the Seventh Day Adventists and their teachings of Ellen White it is clear that there are spurious elements there; from her supposedly communicating with her late husband; to the predictions about the Lord's return. This is something I have just begun to investigate; but when you hear how commonplace demonic attacks are in their own pamphlets describing experiences that are always inexorably involved with this lady's teachings as being some sort of proposed solution you know there is a problem.
I wanted to differentiate between that and those such as Messianic Jews who may choose to worship on Saurdays. I have attended meetings in several of these type settings when I lived in Pittsburgh; and have seen how there is a fairly good acceptance of other believers such as myself who worship on Sundays. Nonetheless; there are reminders with events not to serve food that isn't considered Kosher which I suppose is ok not to offend those of the Jewish faith we wish to bring to Christ by not allowing our liberties to dissuade men. In regard to Saturday sabbath; it is clear that the PENALTY is for those who are in Israel who are cut off from God that disobey the Sabbath. In that regard it appears to be uniquely there for the Israelites only; while other laws such as divorce count for all men (as we see from examples with pagans who were told; for instance not to touch Abraham and Issac's wife when they were passed off as sisters; and John the Baptist being martyred for a pagan marrying his brothers wife). We could say the same of course for murder which is something found originally with Cain well before the law was delivered on Sinai.
God may well establish again some of this during the Millennial reign at least with the Temple which will keep people ceremonially clean around glorified saints and Christ after He returns as well as be a reminder of Christ's sacrifice for sin.
1Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2But we are sure that the Judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the Judgment of GOD?
4Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of GOD leadeth thee to repentance?
5But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the Day of Wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of GOD;
6Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, ETERNAL LIFE:
8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the Truth (GOD IS TRUTH), but obey unrighteousness, INDIGNATION and WRATH,
9TRIBULATION and ANGUISH, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11For there is no respect of persons with GOD.
12For as many as have sinned without law (THE GENTILES) shall also PERISH WITHOUT LAW: and as many as have sinned in the LAW shall be JUDGED by the LAW;
13(For not the hearers of the law are just before GOD,but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14For when the Gentiles(believers),WHICH HAVE NOT THE LAW, do BY NATURE the things contained in the law, these, HAVING NOT THE LAW, are a law unto themselves:
15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts,their conscience also bearing witness,and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another)
16In the Day when GOD shall Judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel
The theory or doctrine of the Law was invented and was sowed by those which interpreted the Law from a human perspective, in fact a stumbling block- Genesis 3:1, not from GOD's perspective- Matthew 16:23.
JESUS said: John 7:38-He that believes on me,as the Scripture has said,out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Thus, about Sababath,for the understanding of all of us here,I would ask for you: Do you believe in the Word made flesh,Lord JESUS? You know that The Word is GOD,right?The Word made flesh-Lord JESUS-,He Himself preached,saying:Mat.11:17-All the prophets and the Law prophesied until John,period.Therefore,GOD Himself established the Law to last 1500 years,from Moses until JESUS,no more,no more than this.
See,JESUS was not abolishing the Law His Father gave to Moses,it's evident: JESUS and the Father are One,although be two distincts Persons- Hebrews 1:3 & 8-, so,in fact,JESUS was only clarifying the period of validity of the Law given to Moses by His Father. GOD the Father had established The Law by His own power, the period of validity or prevalence of the Law lasted from Moses until JESUS specifically, understand?And JESUS only preached what GOD commanded Him to say to the people.JESUS said:Jo.12:49-I have not spoken of myself;but the Father which sent me,He gave me a commandment,what I should say,and what I should speak.
That said, keeping the Sabbath day over time after grace came, i.e.after JESUS came,these people do not do this by the Spirit of Christ,but by the letter written in the stone,according OT,the letter kills,and also they keep Sabbath day according to the calendar created and developed by devilish/satanic worshipers of the Beast of sea-Revevelation 13:1-10.
The true followers of my Lord JESUS do not fight against the Law of GOD given to Moses,but against seducing spirits,and doctrines of devils,speaking lies in hypocrisy;having their conscience seared with a hot iron.
I understand your point to Momsage. We all have the tendency to defend people who may seem weak to our eyes (in knowledge or anything else) and get bullyied by others. But here this is not a case of bullying. It is a matter of truth. It is not adequate for one to sit home and read their Bible, God doesn't work like that. That is why He gave the ministries to the church ( Ephesians 4:11), one of them is the teacher, also the Pastor. If we could just stay away from a congregation and read our Bibles and learn everything, God wouldn't give those ministries. But God's work is mainly within the church, not outside it, and we need teachers and people who know a bit more than we do, even history.
I don't claim I am a teacher, I am not. But some things I know, as well as other brothers and sisters, may help somebody to see clearer, or even me. So we put forward what we know, and if the other person has something to say, let them say it. We don't reject somebody's believes without hearing them first. If I have nothing to say to defend my position then this becomes obvious to others. If I don't know much I must either be ready to learn from others otherwise why do I get into a discussion? Is all that wrong? Sorry you are bothered, it is true that sometimes we may seem aggresive but our aim is not to insult the other person but to show what we know it is true. GBU
You are absolutely right. Also it is prefferable to have those churches than nothing. In Europe in countries where those churches play a significant role in the society, usually Southen/Eastern Europe, people are closer to God and His commandments than the North where people are almost completely atheists and this is obvious from the no. of divorces, rate of crime, etc. But I wish they could just open their eyes and see and follow the truth. How a great salvation it could be done. In my country more than 95% of people have been baptized as Orthodox christians when they were infants. They often attend the church liturgies, take part in celebtations, festivals, fastings, everything...but their everyday life doesn't show Christ. If that church could see the truth and preach it, my God what a great salvation would result, I believe thousand and millions of people would have been saved. Another thing is that we must honor those churches, apart from condemning them all the time. This may sound strange but let us not forget that Christianity was spread throughout the world mainly by those 2 churches, the Catholics in the West and the Orthodoxes in the East. If those didn't exist, probably we wouldn't have learned anything about Christ. As we owe honor to Israel because they kept the faith to the real God for so many millenia so that the church found it at the end, the same way we owe honor to those churches because they kept the faith for so many centuaries untill we found it. This is justice. But we also have to talk to them about their errors. We really can not do much, but God is powerful to change that all completely. I believe that as we are approaching the end and the sin in the world is becoming biger and biger, the stonger our God's power will be revealed to the world. We can talk to everybody about our faith but if God doesn't show His strength not much will be done. So our prayes here is to see God powerful again, as the ancient times. ( Joel 2:23)
I understand your frustration Momsage , I too am extremely irritated when people put too much importance on what other , ordinary people say and think about the Bible as if they are in some way superior in knowledge to any of us . We are all reading the same book so any knowledge from that book is available for all of us to read and understand . All that is required is dedication patience and prayer and any of us can know the Truth . Humans have always tried to add or subtract from the Word of God , claiming to know or understand things better than others , as if they have some mystical gift , basically trying to make themselves into something special when all we need to know us available to all in the Bible . This is why many churches , especially in the past , did not encourage their congregation to actually read the Bible for themselves . I wish you would stay with us , I notice that you talk a lot about one particular subject , the Sabbath , it would be interesting to talk about other aspects of the Bible also :) it's a big book so there's plenty to talk about . I have often felt like never reading this site ever again but , hopefully you will cool down and come back , I always do :) . It can feel a bit as if everyone is against you on here sometimes but I handle that by not reading the posts of people that I know don't like me much :) it works wonders :):):) . Hope you will pop back and have a chat soon , maybe try a different subject ? Much love in Christ .
Philippians 3
1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.
2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
17Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
18(For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the ENEMIES of the cross of Christ:
19Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind EARTHLY things.)
20For our conversation is in heaven( Ephesians 1:3); from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
Ephesians 6:11-18
11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God,that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day,and having done all,to stand.
14Stand therefore,having your loins girt about with truth,and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16Above all, taking the shield of faith,wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17And take the helmet of salvation,and the sword of the Spirit,which is the word of God:
18Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit,and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints.
Revelation 22
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. ( Romans 2:12 - As many as have sinned without Law(the Gentiles) shall also PERISH without Law: and as many as have sinned in the Law(the Jews) shall be Judged by the Law;)
15 Without are dogs(dogs? Isaiah 56:10-11.Take a look), and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
But the fearful(the COWARDS), and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and ALL LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
The Word is GOD, self-executing, self-executable, understand?
Picking corn on Sabbath out if necessity. Common sense is all that is needed to accomplish this obedience so there is no long list of do's abd don't's. Anyone who works on Saturday if they pray and believe God He will make a way out of it. There are plenty of people who have no regard for the things of God who can do what ever needs done. It is not a sin for true believers to worship and fellowship on Sunday. God has only command us to make one day, the seventh, as a complete day of rest and we can also worship since we don't have worldly distractions. Meals could be take out or prepared on Friday like in a slow cooker so everyone can help themselves etc. My whole point is Christians could do it no problem if they wanted to obey this commandment just like the others. God Bless :)
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be(combined with Daniel 12:1-3 and Revelation 12:7-12).
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved( Romans 9:28): but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ ( John 5:43-47), or there; BELIEVE IT NOT.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets( Isaiah 9:15-16 combined with Revelation 12:3-4), and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. - 25 Behold, I have told you before.
There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
I read a little of Barnabas and he seemed to believe our hope for eternal life was something we are to strive for if we behave ourselves until we die. Anyway I only answered your reply because it didnt seem right not to. I have decided to stay with this forum but only with you and Christianlady7.
Keeping the SABBATH was a commandment of God not a law of the Jews. Talk to you soon. God Bless :)
Did you mean someone else? I do not recall sharing my views on this discussion.
GOD bless everyone in CHRIST name.
January 06, 2024
Although I have been agressive to some people on this site in the past (and I have repented about it) I don't think I have been either agressive to Momsage or used words that insult, neither me nor any other person in that discussion about Sabbath. About singling her out how can that be? We don't know each other here on this site neither we have the same beliefs in every topic. When we list all we know about a topic is for making our beliefs solid, not to diminish the other person. Now to what was discussed. Momsage anchored herself to what she has read somewhere and I listed all historical events that I know to make her think that she may have the wrong impression about things she learned. Anyway, does all that mean that when I want to talk about something with others I should not say all that I know because that other person may feel inferior? Is this what you say? Is this right? Personally when someone talks about things that I don't know, such as history, I am very careful about what is said and then I look it up on the net. There is so much information nowadays on there from all sort of sources and it is good not to single out any church or denomination. But as far as the church history is concerned there is a wide acceptance all over the world about specific events in the history of the early church and when we hear something that sounds a bit strange in our ears then that makes us want to wake up that other person. There are some teachers or churches that in order to promote their ideas they twist some things on purpose, and I firmly believe that Momsage has fallen to that trap, because what she says that they say is not the accepted history of the church. We should be very careful in general when we hear something that is in total contrast to what all the others believe. Is is only us or some other specific teachers that God has revealed His truth? Why? Are we something special? Anyway, I think this is enough. Have a blessed day.GBU
Sorry, it should be the Feast of Unleavened Bread where the first and the seventh day are the holy convocation, not Passover, my bad.
God bless,
RLW
I agree with what you have said some things have been used for power and control, the day people go to a church is for their conscience and should not be a division. We see in Acts they were meeting every day of the week. But if I may point out a few things about the eighth day, not to debate but things you may want to study. The eighth day appears in various contexts in the Bible but to my understanding never as a day of the week, there are only seven days of the week.
God told Abraham that male children should be circumcised on the eighth day after their birth. We know now medically on the eighth day after birth, vitamin K in the body is at its highest level on the eighth day, and it is pivotal in blood clotting.
It comes up again with the Feast of Tabernacles on the first day and the eighth day was a holy convocation with no work outside of preparing food could be done, unlike the Passover where the first day and the seventh day were a holy convocation.
The eighth day was used in some sacrifices where it was done on the eighth day after the sin, some in the past have referred to the Lord's Day as the eighth day, referring to a new creation and some say it will be the final day of judgment, but I do not know much about that.
Pentecost, also known as the Feast of Weeks, you count seven Sabbaths after Passover, and it will be the first day after the seventh Sabbath. That makes it the 50th which is the meaning of pentekoste/Pentecost on the first day of the week after 49 days/seven Sabbaths.
They would count each day, this is the first day, this is the second day until the 50th day the second harvest would be presented to God and said it was the same day God gave the law to Moses on Mount Sinai. and the day of the giving of the Holy Spirit, the second harvest.
I hope you don't mind Richard and are not offended; I read and enjoy your posts and hope your health is good.
God bless,
RLW
God is a consuming fire and it denotes an aspect of His holiness, which is different from what we have here. "And, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.".(Ex.3:2-4). *There was a voice from its midst calling his attention. Naturally the Spirit presents Moses as the double for his Son to which we have a book-end in the transfiguration of Jesus again with a mountain in the backdrop. (St. Matt. 17:1-9).
In both cases we are looking at the glory of God and the tree refers to the tree of righteousness in terms of the tree of life. In the other the glory of spiritual body and the holy mount is another reference to the Son. Thus we have the glory in terms of the Father Son relationship.
Second point to remember is the glory of the Word and Moses with Elijah are served as double for the Son. (See under L-logos). (Ex.3:1-4).
God set up an encounter with Moses and his scholarly turn of mind turned back as foreknown. "And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I".
Spirit of Christ represents the glory which did not consume the tree which foreshadows tree of Life or of righteousness. The voice of the Lord has sent forth the word (Is.55:11). It also augurs the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. (See under M-parallelism)
* Explanation
Compare "And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine."(Re.6:6) The Spirit speaks on a non-verbal mode. While the four beast are continually praising God,holy,holy, holy' they keep their role as MC. They represent Glory of creation and Man as the steward. With each rider they alternate correspondingly. "And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see."(v.7)
You are conflating your perception of what you think is our view of Momsage with what we think. We do not think of her as weaker nor do are any of us intending to "pile on" her. This is not bullying. It is discussing with differing viewpoints. Others who think like Momsage are welcome to join our discussion. We are not singling her out in any way as a bully does, nor are we intentionally targeting her for mistreatment here. That has not occurred.
I can see you are very sensitive to people on this forum who seem weak or the underdog in a discussion in your eyes. I appreciate your compassion. But to call any of us bullies, aggressive, or invective in our posts to her is simply name-calling. You are assuming to know our motives and assume that we are attempting to bully or belittle her. We are definitely not intending this at all. So, please, let's be gracious to one another even as we discuss topics amongst one another. Our aim is to uplift, give thoughts to consider, and to express ideas that someone's original post prompts us to respond to.
It is good for you to be encouraging to Momsage.
I do not think Giannis, myself, or anyone else on this forum was being aggressive to Momsage nor where we trying to promote our selves, our scholarship, or our superiority. If that is what you get from our postings, I must say that you are reading more into what has been presented than what we said or meant. Also, speaking for myself, I like you, considering you a wonderful sister in Christ that God has blessed me with. I am sure others here think the same. So be assured that you are loved and cherished on this forum.
As for me, I try to read almost all of what is posted on this forum because I respect everyone's ideas, that they took the time to post, and that they are brethren. I read most posts because I can learn from others, be made to ponder a topic and then explore it more deeply myself, add my view to the discussion. I can answer a question and I can know prayer requests so I can have the privilege to pray for the need expressed. Yet, each person is free to decide how they participate on this forum and I respect that as well.
So, may you have peace today. May you be encouraged and know that you are appreciated here and loved for who you are in Christ as we all should be. It saddens me to know that you think that some of us do not like you. I hope that God will assure you of your love and acceptance here, especially by those of us who post here. Have a blessed day.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts today.
Perhaps you have misunderstood my point concerning the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. The letter int he caser of the Decalogue is very specific but the spirt of the law encompasses so much more than just the acts spoken of in the Decalogue.
We are to be morally sound in our lives, not just in our outward acts, but inwardly, being transformed by the Holy Spirit to will and do what the Father wants us to do.
My post was not meant to be dismissive concerning moral actions. We are not to kill, commit adultery, etc. according to the Decalogue, but in the teachings of Jesus (Sermon on the Mount) and Paul's words concerning the law, we are to go deeper into what the Lord requires of us-not just outward obedience as the Pharisees did, but inwardly, with pureness of heart and true desire to live godly lives in the evil world we live in daily.
John 1:
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
GOD to shine HIS face gloriously on all who love and look forward to HIS coming!
January 6, 2024
Acts 20:7 makes clear that gathering of the saints occurred on the first day of the week to bolster the collection made according to 1 Corinthians 16:2. The prescident is really from the fact that Christ fulfilled Pentacost which was the 8th day of the week (or Sunday) in the O.T. times was celebrated 50 days after the Passover.
Since we are not to have certain days to be held above others as Romans 14:5-6 indicates; we have no right to dictate either Saturday or Sunday for worship as I see it. Again; the Old Testament command was for Israel specifically as anyone in the land who disrespected the Sabbath was severely punished (see Deuteronomy 5:14). Other laws in the Old Testament such as marriage were clearly upheld even with pagan societies (as we see with the case of John the Baptist when he was imprisoned for contesting with the marriage status of a secular leader married to his brother's wife). Murder was evident with Cain well before the law came out. The fact is that Saturday worship can no longer be as it was without the sacrifices and other ordinances of the O.T. times which have been gone since the temple was destroyed in 70 AD. Christ is our Passover now ( 1 Corinthians 5:7) and the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath ( Matthew 12:8).
We also need to consider what Paul stated to those who were coming from pagan societies. He said in Acts 15:29 to avoid eating blood; or strangled animals (often done in pagan rituals) as well as sexual immorality. If Saturday worship was required you would expect something would be mentioned as all other things in the Commandments which are throughout the New Testament in the Gospels and Epistles.
There are further concerns with Adventist doctrines and Ellen White which I am not going to get into detail here; but this often is an added reason for this and other issues of contention. I agree that the edict of Milan enforcing Sunday worship is wrong also.
I wanted to differentiate between that and those such as Messianic Jews who may choose to worship on Saurdays. I have attended meetings in several of these type settings when I lived in Pittsburgh; and have seen how there is a fairly good acceptance of other believers such as myself who worship on Sundays. Nonetheless; there are reminders with events not to serve food that isn't considered Kosher which I suppose is ok not to offend those of the Jewish faith we wish to bring to Christ by not allowing our liberties to dissuade men. In regard to Saturday sabbath; it is clear that the PENALTY is for those who are in Israel who are cut off from God that disobey the Sabbath. In that regard it appears to be uniquely there for the Israelites only; while other laws such as divorce count for all men (as we see from examples with pagans who were told; for instance not to touch Abraham and Issac's wife when they were passed off as sisters; and John the Baptist being martyred for a pagan marrying his brothers wife). We could say the same of course for murder which is something found originally with Cain well before the law was delivered on Sinai.
God may well establish again some of this during the Millennial reign at least with the Temple which will keep people ceremonially clean around glorified saints and Christ after He returns as well as be a reminder of Christ's sacrifice for sin.
1Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2But we are sure that the Judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the Judgment of GOD?
4Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of GOD leadeth thee to repentance?
5But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the Day of Wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of GOD;
6Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, ETERNAL LIFE:
8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the Truth (GOD IS TRUTH), but obey unrighteousness, INDIGNATION and WRATH,
9TRIBULATION and ANGUISH, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11For there is no respect of persons with GOD.
12For as many as have sinned without law (THE GENTILES) shall also PERISH WITHOUT LAW: and as many as have sinned in the LAW shall be JUDGED by the LAW;
13(For not the hearers of the law are just before GOD,but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14For when the Gentiles(believers),WHICH HAVE NOT THE LAW, do BY NATURE the things contained in the law, these, HAVING NOT THE LAW, are a law unto themselves:
15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts,their conscience also bearing witness,and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another)
16In the Day when GOD shall Judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel
THE WORD IS GOD
The theory or doctrine of the Law was invented and was sowed by those which interpreted the Law from a human perspective, in fact a stumbling block- Genesis 3:1, not from GOD's perspective- Matthew 16:23.
JESUS said: John 7:38-He that believes on me,as the Scripture has said,out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Thus, about Sababath,for the understanding of all of us here,I would ask for you: Do you believe in the Word made flesh,Lord JESUS? You know that The Word is GOD,right?The Word made flesh-Lord JESUS-,He Himself preached,saying:Mat.11:17-All the prophets and the Law prophesied until John,period.Therefore,GOD Himself established the Law to last 1500 years,from Moses until JESUS,no more,no more than this.
See,JESUS was not abolishing the Law His Father gave to Moses,it's evident: JESUS and the Father are One,although be two distincts Persons- Hebrews 1:3 & 8-, so,in fact,JESUS was only clarifying the period of validity of the Law given to Moses by His Father. GOD the Father had established The Law by His own power, the period of validity or prevalence of the Law lasted from Moses until JESUS specifically, understand?And JESUS only preached what GOD commanded Him to say to the people.JESUS said:Jo.12:49-I have not spoken of myself;but the Father which sent me,He gave me a commandment,what I should say,and what I should speak.
That said, keeping the Sabbath day over time after grace came, i.e.after JESUS came,these people do not do this by the Spirit of Christ,but by the letter written in the stone,according OT,the letter kills,and also they keep Sabbath day according to the calendar created and developed by devilish/satanic worshipers of the Beast of sea-Revevelation 13:1-10.
The true followers of my Lord JESUS do not fight against the Law of GOD given to Moses,but against seducing spirits,and doctrines of devils,speaking lies in hypocrisy;having their conscience seared with a hot iron.
Be careful- 2Peter 3:7&11-12 & Isaiah 33:10-14
I understand your point to Momsage. We all have the tendency to defend people who may seem weak to our eyes (in knowledge or anything else) and get bullyied by others. But here this is not a case of bullying. It is a matter of truth. It is not adequate for one to sit home and read their Bible, God doesn't work like that. That is why He gave the ministries to the church ( Ephesians 4:11), one of them is the teacher, also the Pastor. If we could just stay away from a congregation and read our Bibles and learn everything, God wouldn't give those ministries. But God's work is mainly within the church, not outside it, and we need teachers and people who know a bit more than we do, even history.
I don't claim I am a teacher, I am not. But some things I know, as well as other brothers and sisters, may help somebody to see clearer, or even me. So we put forward what we know, and if the other person has something to say, let them say it. We don't reject somebody's believes without hearing them first. If I have nothing to say to defend my position then this becomes obvious to others. If I don't know much I must either be ready to learn from others otherwise why do I get into a discussion? Is all that wrong? Sorry you are bothered, it is true that sometimes we may seem aggresive but our aim is not to insult the other person but to show what we know it is true. GBU
You are absolutely right. Also it is prefferable to have those churches than nothing. In Europe in countries where those churches play a significant role in the society, usually Southen/Eastern Europe, people are closer to God and His commandments than the North where people are almost completely atheists and this is obvious from the no. of divorces, rate of crime, etc. But I wish they could just open their eyes and see and follow the truth. How a great salvation it could be done. In my country more than 95% of people have been baptized as Orthodox christians when they were infants. They often attend the church liturgies, take part in celebtations, festivals, fastings, everything...but their everyday life doesn't show Christ. If that church could see the truth and preach it, my God what a great salvation would result, I believe thousand and millions of people would have been saved. Another thing is that we must honor those churches, apart from condemning them all the time. This may sound strange but let us not forget that Christianity was spread throughout the world mainly by those 2 churches, the Catholics in the West and the Orthodoxes in the East. If those didn't exist, probably we wouldn't have learned anything about Christ. As we owe honor to Israel because they kept the faith to the real God for so many millenia so that the church found it at the end, the same way we owe honor to those churches because they kept the faith for so many centuaries untill we found it. This is justice. But we also have to talk to them about their errors. We really can not do much, but God is powerful to change that all completely. I believe that as we are approaching the end and the sin in the world is becoming biger and biger, the stonger our God's power will be revealed to the world. We can talk to everybody about our faith but if God doesn't show His strength not much will be done. So our prayes here is to see God powerful again, as the ancient times. ( Joel 2:23)
GBU