This is another reference to the 144,000 who appear to be translated or raptured as they appear before the heavenly Mt. Zion. They have the seal of God on their foreheads which they were given earlier to prevent the plagues from God to affect them ( Rev. 9:4). They are mentioned as "firstfruits" and they would be the last of a whole train of people in heaven from Christ ( 1 Cor. 15:23) until now. Those who will be with Him at His coming will include all the rest of the martyrs who would not take the mark of the Beast (see v. 9-11). There were general admonitions given by angels to worship God who created all things; as well as the fall of Babylon (the great city) which would be the ECONOMIC part of Babylon (i.e. the city running everything) which some say is Rome; others New York City; or possibly a future one in the Middle East. Since the term "is fallen" is stated twice in verse 8; it indicates that the spiritual Babylon system of false religion ALSO is overturned by the Beast at this time (as we wee in further detail in Revelation 17 and 18.
The warnings in verse 9 about not taking the mark of the Beast and eternal damnation also is preached by an angel. Verses 12 and 13 show those who will still die; and the "patience" of the saints. They will rest after their labors.
The rest of the chapter shows the judgment of the nations at Armageddon; and perhaps in the bigger picture with the bloodbath to come. Various angels are seen with sickles (v. 16 and 17) who are given instruction by the angel in verse 15. Verses 18 and 19 show those that are grapes; those who will be trodden by the wrath of the winepress of God ( Isaiah 63:3). It seems unclear if the angels in v. 15-17 are gathering the righteous (as it would seem from preceeding verses); or the wicked. There is the possibility that it would be those who will not fight in battle who are the tares. God isn't mentioned specifically or a heavenly view of saints; in general Matt. 13:30 will occur.
God gave those beings a choice ,to obey and serve or not they chose not, their choice was to follow one who saw himself equal to God. So like a parent you have a few children each is different, would you want your children to love you because you told them to.No you would want them to love you because they chose to love you not because you made them, that kind of love is real love, that is the love God wants from us.
Before God was created the creation, I could see the first Trinitarian from the beginning of the Genesis:1:1-3, I feel what God carried out the things from his word, it was His power of the Spirit, and the same word could seen the transformation took placed in the Mother Mary womb when Jesus had to born, and thus it meant by John say in the gospel to us 1:1, In the beginning was the word, and the word was with the God, and the word was God, So I could see the first Trinitarian stood side by side,
The people Jesus was speaking to, understood that for of discipline/punishment because it was very publicity done in their society, see Deuteronomy 25:1-3, 2Corinthians 11:23,24, Acts 16:23, Proverbs 19:29,
Isaiah 53, Isaiah 53:5,
Context Luke 12, it starts off Luke 12:1 "In the meantime._.._." therefore you have to go back a page or more to get fuller context. Luke 11, starts Luke 11:1 "And it came to pass._._" also a continuation but atleast you can see a good contextual beginning in Luke 11:1 they were asking Jesus to teach them to pray. Jesus started to teach them Luke 11:2-52, also bringing the Church Leadership into correction, while teaching all around, including those leaders. Luke 11:53-54, those leaders were waiting for a time to trip him up. Luke 12, begins as that moments continuation, so Jesus in the crowds chaos continued teaching Luke 12:1 "._._.. Beware ye of the ._._.hypocrisy ", (please read in context) Jesus then encourages us & all around Him, the Love GOD has for us & HIS promises of provision of all needs, even during wrongful persecution & death. Luke 12:3-40, with continued warning of hypocrisy, Luke 12:41-59, notice Luke 12:45, mistreatment of others, disregard of responsibility as Stewardship, leadership, ect.
Looks like Jesus is talking about being responsible for those people & things put into the care, trust of HIS "servants" knowingly or unknowingly sinning against, if you're a leader, trusted with anyone & especially the Church.
Apostate: One who has abandoned one's religious faith, a political party, one's principles, or a cause.
Amos 5:15 Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate: it may be that the LORD God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph.
Psalms 97:10 Ye that love the LORD, hate evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked.
Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is visibly unveiled from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth with unrighteousness [wrongdoing];
Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and turn ye again to Me, that your sins may be blotted out, in order that ... times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord
This is it. All the cards; so to speak are out on the table. There is no more pretense; hiding behind images that appeal to sensual thoughts; or the solace of contemplative meditation in quiet shrines; or any such nonsense mixing Christ in whatever flavor suits the sage; teacher; wise men or prophets of any religion. This is THE image of the Antichrist; no doubt inspired by the injury as described in Zech 11:17. This deadly wound could involve a real death with the beast coming out of the pit as the king of the Abyss ( Rev. 9:11) at the 5th Trumpet earlier now possessing the body of the man who was given a deadly wound. No doubt this appears as a Resurrection and since it is right before the death and resurrection of the 2 Prophets it reinforces his indestructibility (verse 4).
Now we see the blasphemy that repeatedly describes not only Antichrist; but his followers as the bowl judgments commence. Now the saints are overcome (V. 7 also stated in Dan. 7:21).
The time frame according to v. 5 is limited; but verse 8 indicates ALL not written in the Book of Life worship him.
Verse 11 to verse 17 shows the False Prophet doing miracles just like Elijah did before he was killed and raise up. The miracles convince people to worship the beast healed (v. 14) from the deadly wound; and to take the infamous mark along with worshipping the Beast's image.
Notice these actions and "wonders" are all done by the False Prophet himself on BEHALF of the Beast. The last verse has the famous "666 or Six hundred threescore and six" number; either signifying in Greek the letters of the name of Anchrist; or his characteristic of being short of God's perfection (777) a sort of "unholy trinity". I surmise it is a DNA alteration making one be as Nephilim; supposedly immortal like the Beast; and hence like the angels NOT redeemable with the blood of Christ for men. There won't be much food left for those who do take it; and those who don't will soon be martyrs.
So, how is it certain whether you agree with me in regards to the "tree," dualism subject, as what I said was in interrogative form. It is possible I'm not totally convinced either way. Either way I value your opinion, as it could confirm in a way i believe, which is helpful. It could also strengthen my thought system in the way it was leaning via what I may not agree with, i.e. was not convincing, which is ok.
This brings to mind another comment and question: At this time, I can conclude Adam and Eve were created/made without any knowledge of good as well as evil. Yet how could they even make a decision, let alone make an evaluation without some degree of knowledge of right and wrong?
To continue, it appears the effect of eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil favored gaining a ton of evil knowledge in contrast to good, made evident throughout the Bible's historical recordings of man. I cant help wondering, if God didn't create evil, why is He introducing something not His reality/truth to His perfect creation? If God doesn't create evil, then the only logical option left is He creates only the good, holy, unchanging, eternal, perfect, light, spirit, lovable, loving, and so on.
I'm in complete agreement that creating a being with a free will able to think apart from God does not make God evil. Actually, the Source is Love. We have the free will to choose to believe God is everything mentioned in the above paragraph, or just the opposite of all the above, or both. The first choice leads to a purely non dualistic thinking Mind; the second is impossible because however much we try, we don't have the power to make our Father fatherless. Every being born, save Jesus, has chosen the third option. What God did not create and what He isn't can only be in my own mind apart from His.
That's one of the funniest things I've heard in a while. I'm not sure if I could have contained myself from laughing. What would have topped it off is before you left, you pulled an envelope out of your back pocket and said "Excuse me pastor, but this letter just showed up in my back pocket from God, and He told me to get out of here and said to tell you that He does not communicate to us by phone!"
I might have stuck around just to see what "God told him." That had to be interesting!
Yes dear Delilah, it says glass mixed with fire in the prototype text. Glass had been invented many centuaries BC and Romans at that ime could manufacture very clean and transparent glassy objects.
What do we mean that we are saved by God's grace? We mean that salvation was offered to us through Jesus' sacrifice on the cross. When is this salvation received by people? When we repent for the sins we have done and ask for God's forgiveness. If there is no repentance, is salvation still granted to people? No it is not. Again, in a condition of unrepentance is God's grace available to people? The answer is again no.
About water baptism. Is it a command from God? Yes it is. There are many verses throughout the Bible about that, I can not go through them but if you look to past discussions about water baptism you will find a lot of stuff, it has been discussed a lot lately. So if one does not want to be water baptized, is it considered disobedience to God's will? Is disobedience a sin? Is this sin forgiven if one doesn't repent and corrects himself? Is grace still available to him as long as one is in disobedience and unrepentance? We can agree, I think, that the answer is always no.
Is it considered as a man's work when obeying to God's commandments?
John 6:28-29 "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent"
So Jesus calls it a work to believe in Him, so what do you think of that, is it necessary for salvaion (to do the work of believing)? Yes it is, also obeying God's rules is necessary for salvation, whether one calls it a work or not.
John 15:9-10 "As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. if ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love"
And I would like you to analyze to me the following verses:
Romans 2:6-7"Who will render to every man according to his deeds:To them who by patient continuance in well doing (good works) seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life"
You are right GiGi, we should not discourage anybody who wants to be baptized in water, nomatter whether we believe it is a matter of salvation or not. The early church in the Acts required everybody to be baptised in water, so we should do the same and encourage people to follow this practice.
It is about our conscience, it is to be pure, and you will not mess up, your words speak it is on your heart.
1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
When we are baptized in water in the name of Jesus the Christ/Messiah we are, Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
If you choose to be baptized in water you will have no doubt Acts.24:16 And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men.
Water baptism is a rehearsal when we go under, we die to sin and when we come up out of that water in a newness of life. It will be just like when we die and are buried, we will rise up out of the earth with an incorruptible new body.
God bless, go for it, I would love to be there, you will have no regrets or doubt in your conscience you will feel the glow.
In Matthew 12:36, Jesus is presenting a condition. He says, "A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
The emphasis is the heart.
And then Jesus gives us the charge in Matthew 12:36. He says, "But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Right now, we have the ability to intercept (if you will), the frequency waves going through the air. You can go to different radio stations, ham operators, anything. It is all out there. It is buzzing around us right now. We can tap right in and listen to what people are saying.
Jesus said every idle word, that is, (every word that has nothing to do with the fruitfulness of Christ), everyone will give an account, because your words speak from out of your heart. So, there is going to be a judgment.
Matthew 12:37 gives us the principle for what Jesus is saying: "For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."
The warnings in verse 9 about not taking the mark of the Beast and eternal damnation also is preached by an angel. Verses 12 and 13 show those who will still die; and the "patience" of the saints. They will rest after their labors.
The rest of the chapter shows the judgment of the nations at Armageddon; and perhaps in the bigger picture with the bloodbath to come. Various angels are seen with sickles (v. 16 and 17) who are given instruction by the angel in verse 15. Verses 18 and 19 show those that are grapes; those who will be trodden by the wrath of the winepress of God ( Isaiah 63:3). It seems unclear if the angels in v. 15-17 are gathering the righteous (as it would seem from preceeding verses); or the wicked. There is the possibility that it would be those who will not fight in battle who are the tares. God isn't mentioned specifically or a heavenly view of saints; in general Matt. 13:30 will occur.
The people Jesus was speaking to, understood that for of discipline/punishment because it was very publicity done in their society, see Deuteronomy 25:1-3, 2Corinthians 11:23,24, Acts 16:23, Proverbs 19:29,
Isaiah 53, Isaiah 53:5,
Context Luke 12, it starts off Luke 12:1 "In the meantime._.._." therefore you have to go back a page or more to get fuller context. Luke 11, starts Luke 11:1 "And it came to pass._._" also a continuation but atleast you can see a good contextual beginning in Luke 11:1 they were asking Jesus to teach them to pray. Jesus started to teach them Luke 11:2-52, also bringing the Church Leadership into correction, while teaching all around, including those leaders. Luke 11:53-54, those leaders were waiting for a time to trip him up. Luke 12, begins as that moments continuation, so Jesus in the crowds chaos continued teaching Luke 12:1 "._._.. Beware ye of the ._._.hypocrisy ", (please read in context) Jesus then encourages us & all around Him, the Love GOD has for us & HIS promises of provision of all needs, even during wrongful persecution & death. Luke 12:3-40, with continued warning of hypocrisy, Luke 12:41-59, notice Luke 12:45, mistreatment of others, disregard of responsibility as Stewardship, leadership, ect.
Looks like Jesus is talking about being responsible for those people & things put into the care, trust of HIS "servants" knowingly or unknowingly sinning against, if you're a leader, trusted with anyone & especially the Church.
Matthew 25:31-46, Matthew 7, Romans 14:12,
Hopefully these are helpful
Amos 5:15 Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate: it may be that the LORD God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph.
Psalms 97:10 Ye that love the LORD, hate evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked.
Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is visibly unveiled from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth with unrighteousness [wrongdoing];
The Fly Away Doctrine is evil, read Ezekiel 13:20
Thank for your viewpoint. I do disagree with it, but sharing different viewpoints can be helpful. Have a good evening, Henry.
This is it. All the cards; so to speak are out on the table. There is no more pretense; hiding behind images that appeal to sensual thoughts; or the solace of contemplative meditation in quiet shrines; or any such nonsense mixing Christ in whatever flavor suits the sage; teacher; wise men or prophets of any religion. This is THE image of the Antichrist; no doubt inspired by the injury as described in Zech 11:17. This deadly wound could involve a real death with the beast coming out of the pit as the king of the Abyss ( Rev. 9:11) at the 5th Trumpet earlier now possessing the body of the man who was given a deadly wound. No doubt this appears as a Resurrection and since it is right before the death and resurrection of the 2 Prophets it reinforces his indestructibility (verse 4).
Now we see the blasphemy that repeatedly describes not only Antichrist; but his followers as the bowl judgments commence. Now the saints are overcome (V. 7 also stated in Dan. 7:21).
The time frame according to v. 5 is limited; but verse 8 indicates ALL not written in the Book of Life worship him.
Verse 11 to verse 17 shows the False Prophet doing miracles just like Elijah did before he was killed and raise up. The miracles convince people to worship the beast healed (v. 14) from the deadly wound; and to take the infamous mark along with worshipping the Beast's image.
Notice these actions and "wonders" are all done by the False Prophet himself on BEHALF of the Beast. The last verse has the famous "666 or Six hundred threescore and six" number; either signifying in Greek the letters of the name of Anchrist; or his characteristic of being short of God's perfection (777) a sort of "unholy trinity". I surmise it is a DNA alteration making one be as Nephilim; supposedly immortal like the Beast; and hence like the angels NOT redeemable with the blood of Christ for men. There won't be much food left for those who do take it; and those who don't will soon be martyrs.
The words are true whether you perform them or not.
God bless.
Church Epistles those who are born again
Ephesians 5:1-2. BE YE THEREFORE FOLLOWERS OF GOD, AS DEAR CHILDREN;
AND WALK IN LOVE, AS CHRIST ALSO HATH LOVED US, AND HATH GIVEN HIMSELF for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
Isn't that amazing Love! Christ did this whilst we were yet sinners! Ye didn't say only if you straighten yourself up I will die for you.
He died in our place while we were yet sinning.
He made salvation possible for the worst sinners ever, To all who come to him!
Paul says "And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
be ye therefore followers of God as dear children and walk in love as Christ has also loved us and hath given himself. Ephesians 4:32-5:1-2.
Her we see Love, Mercy, forgiveness, kindness displayed by the Lord.
We can't achieve this on our own. This comes by being connected to the true vine! John 15.
This is NOT expected from the world but if you are a child of God you should be able to exhibit this, especially amongst brothern.
This is not saying you shouldn't rebuke an apparent apostate.
I'm saying a supposed brother shouldn't display hatred towards another brother over doctrine, especially when that doctrine holds truth.
It reminds me of John 8:43-47.
You may not agree with someone when they speak truth but the spirit in you want cause you to hate the one that speaks it! And likewise if they're not.
1 John 4:20.
God bless brother.
Thank you. Nice to hear from you also.
So, how is it certain whether you agree with me in regards to the "tree," dualism subject, as what I said was in interrogative form. It is possible I'm not totally convinced either way. Either way I value your opinion, as it could confirm in a way i believe, which is helpful. It could also strengthen my thought system in the way it was leaning via what I may not agree with, i.e. was not convincing, which is ok.
This brings to mind another comment and question: At this time, I can conclude Adam and Eve were created/made without any knowledge of good as well as evil. Yet how could they even make a decision, let alone make an evaluation without some degree of knowledge of right and wrong?
To continue, it appears the effect of eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil favored gaining a ton of evil knowledge in contrast to good, made evident throughout the Bible's historical recordings of man. I cant help wondering, if God didn't create evil, why is He introducing something not His reality/truth to His perfect creation? If God doesn't create evil, then the only logical option left is He creates only the good, holy, unchanging, eternal, perfect, light, spirit, lovable, loving, and so on.
I'm in complete agreement that creating a being with a free will able to think apart from God does not make God evil. Actually, the Source is Love. We have the free will to choose to believe God is everything mentioned in the above paragraph, or just the opposite of all the above, or both. The first choice leads to a purely non dualistic thinking Mind; the second is impossible because however much we try, we don't have the power to make our Father fatherless. Every being born, save Jesus, has chosen the third option. What God did not create and what He isn't can only be in my own mind apart from His.
Peace be with you.
God Is
his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, standing on the sea of glass, having ... harps of God, WE WIN.
It's the last plagues the seven angels had filled up with the wrath of God;
I wish I could have been there brother. I would have went up and said I was from the phone company!
Law. The age of Grace started day of pentecost, which was end of law
Which Paul covers grace given freely but that doesn't imply do whatever
You want sin or broken fellowship is sin. But no amount of works
Under the law can cleanse us from all unrighteousness that includes
Water baptism. Personally if some one wants to be baptised in water ok
If that helps them in their head get born again spiritually. But I'll stick with
Romans 10: 9+10 and believing that in the heart don't see any water there.
God bless and I'm done discussing this.
Originally was Jesus Christ called too. Also in Ephesians Chapter 4:3-6
Pretty much explains things. The book of Acts Is transition record of
The Birthday of Church of God in Age of Grace. Not of works from all
Judeasm legalism which Peter and a few others didn't get what Paul
Was sharing Galatians 2:1-16. In ending in Acts Chapter 1:verses 4+5
John truly baptised with water but (in contrast) ye shall absolute tense
Be baptized with the holy ghost. So this sets one above the other so
It's your privilege to believe what you will. I know people who have done both
And I know people who were never water baptized and they are born again
How do I know that their fruits. Now I'm on to a different topic God Bless.
Up from different occupations and I quote ministered the spirit of education
And carpentry and mechanics and others. Just observed we were invited
By a friend that said he is spiritually on fire he just didn't understand the source!
I ask him why He never opened the bible and after no answer then I said then
How do you know it's God Working? The end.
That's one of the funniest things I've heard in a while. I'm not sure if I could have contained myself from laughing. What would have topped it off is before you left, you pulled an envelope out of your back pocket and said "Excuse me pastor, but this letter just showed up in my back pocket from God, and He told me to get out of here and said to tell you that He does not communicate to us by phone!"
I might have stuck around just to see what "God told him." That had to be interesting!
Let's talk about grace and works
What do we mean that we are saved by God's grace? We mean that salvation was offered to us through Jesus' sacrifice on the cross. When is this salvation received by people? When we repent for the sins we have done and ask for God's forgiveness. If there is no repentance, is salvation still granted to people? No it is not. Again, in a condition of unrepentance is God's grace available to people? The answer is again no.
About water baptism. Is it a command from God? Yes it is. There are many verses throughout the Bible about that, I can not go through them but if you look to past discussions about water baptism you will find a lot of stuff, it has been discussed a lot lately. So if one does not want to be water baptized, is it considered disobedience to God's will? Is disobedience a sin? Is this sin forgiven if one doesn't repent and corrects himself? Is grace still available to him as long as one is in disobedience and unrepentance? We can agree, I think, that the answer is always no.
Is it considered as a man's work when obeying to God's commandments?
John 6:28-29 "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent"
So Jesus calls it a work to believe in Him, so what do you think of that, is it necessary for salvaion (to do the work of believing)? Yes it is, also obeying God's rules is necessary for salvation, whether one calls it a work or not.
John 15:9-10 "As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. if ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love"
And I would like you to analyze to me the following verses:
Romans 2:6-7"Who will render to every man according to his deeds:To them who by patient continuance in well doing (good works) seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life"
It is about our conscience, it is to be pure, and you will not mess up, your words speak it is on your heart.
1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
When we are baptized in water in the name of Jesus the Christ/Messiah we are, Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
If you choose to be baptized in water you will have no doubt Acts.24:16 And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men.
Water baptism is a rehearsal when we go under, we die to sin and when we come up out of that water in a newness of life. It will be just like when we die and are buried, we will rise up out of the earth with an incorruptible new body.
God bless, go for it, I would love to be there, you will have no regrets or doubt in your conscience you will feel the glow.
RLW
Of communication is over I don't like confusion.
In Matthew 12:36, Jesus is presenting a condition. He says, "A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
The emphasis is the heart.
And then Jesus gives us the charge in Matthew 12:36. He says, "But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Right now, we have the ability to intercept (if you will), the frequency waves going through the air. You can go to different radio stations, ham operators, anything. It is all out there. It is buzzing around us right now. We can tap right in and listen to what people are saying.
Jesus said every idle word, that is, (every word that has nothing to do with the fruitfulness of Christ), everyone will give an account, because your words speak from out of your heart. So, there is going to be a judgment.
Matthew 12:37 gives us the principle for what Jesus is saying: "For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."
Hopefully this helps!