Greek = translation in English alphabetical sounds = exartizo
Meaning here "finish out " also "equip fully"
If you click the scripture, in this sight it will go to another page; focused just on that scripture. Then scroll down, hover over the words/small phrases. These words are what was translated from the Greek, or other languages. If you click much deeper study.
I was just reading in Exodus 32-34 in the past few days and we see that God did extend His grace and mercy towards the Israelites, so it was in effect with the Church in the wilderness ( acts 7:38). I happen to think that the "age of grace" spans all of human history. I sense that you are thinking of the administration of grace as being a time period or dispensation rather than God's administration of His grace throughout history. But, there is something to be said for the period of history after Jesus' death and resurrection being a time of fulfillment of this administration of grace, but that does not mean that it did not exist or operate prior to this time. John the Baptist would certainly have been under grace, as Jesus proclaimed Him to be the greatest person to come along in human history. I do not really wish to engage in a lengthy discussion about dispensationalism in this thread, as I think it is outside of the focus of this discussion, it being when did the apostles become apostles and when did the church begin. You can see my post to S. Spencer to read more about my perspective. Have a good evening.
Your words have blessed me. Thank you for sharing your significant history with us all.
1Thessalonians 4:13-18
As my youngest son has been considering entering The U.S. Space Force for multiple years now, it's especially exciting the depth of details in your achievements & jet. Isaiah 40:31
Good discussion going on here. I happen to think that Jesus has eternally been the chief Cornerstone of the Church, the Rock, as Paul says in 1 Cori. 10:4, that gave the "church in the wilderness" water ( Acts 7:38). so, from these Scriptures it seems that the "church" was present in the Exodus with Jesus being the Rock. I have been taught that not only does the work of Jesus on the cross reach forward to be efficacious to us, but also reaches back, even to Adam and Eve, to bring God's grace and forgiveness to mankind throughout history. This is a mystery of sorts. But those who believed in God in the O.T. were justified by faith just like us, as Paul states in several places ( Rom. 4 and Heb. 11). So, those that were justified by faith in the O.T. comprised the Church in the O.T. just as we who are justified by faith now comprise the Church in this age. They did not need to be born after Jesus' crucifixion to receive God's favor and grace, which only what we have to go on anyway.
Sometimes, it may be that we think too narrowly about the beginnings of the church, thinking chronologically, that it had to have begun after the crucifixion. But God does not always operate within chronological parameters in matters of salvation.
I do think the disciples and apostles were "in Christ" before the crucifixion and were justified by faith in Him as well. Surely some disciples may have died before He was crucified. Does that mean that their faith in Christ was useless?
It isn't time frames that determines salvation nor do I think that it is so for determining when the Church began. Both are founded on Jesus, who is eternally our Savior and the foundation stone of the Church, even from before creation. But time does matter in some ways, since we live in a temporal world. Our thinking is often bound by time, too. But by the Spirit we can think in light of the eternality of God's plan of redemption for mankind. That is where I am coming from.
Frank Bush. Something to keep in mind Paul spent 3 years in Arabia because
his own head was blown away by what happened. He was in the desert receiving
Revealed knowledge of what was accomplished and completed and given with
the new birth. Think about this he's known for murdering any followers of Christ
Then shows up a changed man walking via the spirit and showing signs miracles and wonders. When he witnessed the hypocrisy in action of the Judean believers
That was a serious confrontation because who are you Paul to show or teach or
Tell us how to walk. Paul's gospel was to establish what Christ called him to do,
And he was always fighting legalistic division between the law works and grace
Fulfilling by the spirit walking in agapeo or perfect love. Against such there is no
Law hence the law is fulfilled. But that is only accomplished by walking in the
Spirit. There were many still zealous for the law to the point of resisting the truth
Of Christ. This is spoken of many times throughout the church Epistles and
THE STORY OF ME AND MY KJV.---By November of 1953 I had joined the U.S. Air Force, completed bootcamp and tech training on the unparalleled B-47 Stratojet, performed The Rhumba Boogie at the Big-D Jamboree with a standing ovation, attended the funeral of my oldest brother, dated a Christian girl named Jean, and vowed to her I would become a Christian when I reached my assigned airbase in Tucson.
A few guys in my squadron claimed to be Christians, and acted like it. One was my pal Bob. Convicted, I secretly bought a small KJV Bible and often sneaked peaks at it. One day I visited Bob's room. He sat reading his KJV Bible! I said, "Bob, I want to get saved, marry a good woman, and begin a Christian home." Startled, he gave me some passages to read in my KJV, invited me to church to get saved, and introduce me to a good woman. His fianc and the "good woman" were best friends.
I went with him to Sunday School and church. Their church textbook? yyyyep, the KJV! Stepping into the class who faced us, I scanned them. There among them sat the most gorgeous woman I had seen in my entire life of 21 years! SHE was the ONE! Guys, if you saw a picture of her, you'd have to pull your eyeballs back in and eat your heart out! I was to discover that she was every bit as beautiful inside as she was on the outside! We dated nearly six months, and each and every time I saw her, I proposed to her. She finally said "yes."
Ours was a storybook romance for 61 years, 5 months, and 12 days before I lost her. While on her hospital bed, the attending nurses said to one another in our presence, "This doesn't look good." Her beautiful eyes widened as she loudly said, "I'm ready to go!" Hours later she quietly closed her eyes and slipped into the waiting arms of the Lord Jesus, whom she loved infinitely more than me. The KJV was the crowning jewel that led our little family of 4 through it all. I have a big picture of her on my wall with a WWII caption, "I'll see you after the war."
You stated "The apostles chosen, were favored because of their faith , looking for the Messiah, this is the heart that Jesus wants!"
I have to disagree.
The faith they needed was faith in what Christ done on the cross.
"It hadn't happened yet". They all looked for their Messiah but didn't understand what was to come. (The Church and salvation by the death and resurrection of Christ )
Thus was a stumblingblock for them and this is what John the baptist ministry was all about. Baptism of repentance.
They was still under the old covenant, Christ hadn't died to bring in the new covenant. Hebrews 9:15.
You stated "this is the heart that Jesus wants!,
No man's heart is right until the Lord gives him a new heart.
Jeremiah 17:9
Ezekiel 36:26.
The Cornerstone wasn't laid yet, so the foundation couldn't be laid and there was nothing to build on and there was nothing to build with until after Christ rose and they were inpowered.
What was the duties before the resurrection? They tried following him but couldn't.
Paul was seeking to kill Christians until he was converted.
BUT!! When they were filled they had strength and died a mortars death.
Here's they're duties before the resurrection. John 6:28-29. Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
They were chosen to be Apostles but the didn't function as an Apostles until They were filled with the Holyspirit.
Yes H Poley....The scripture say addressed to the 12 tribes scattered abroad.....But chapter 5:14... Says is there any sick among you...Let him call on the elders of the Church....And the prayer of faith will raise him up....Makes us think that this 12 tribes scattered abroad is really the Israel of God the Church.....That Prays for the sick and afflicked....In Jesus Name....just my thoughts
I would be interested in you opinion concerning verses 17-25.This was well after the Jerusalem council Acts 15 and Galations 2 when the Jewish Council gave Paul and Barnabas their blessing to continue to preach the Gospel of Grace to the Gentiles (with some Jewish exceptions.) With this uproar while Paul was explaining to James how his Gospel of Grace was succeeding in Gentiles being saved, it seems that many Jews were not convinced that he was preaching their Gospel of believing and keeping the Law of Moses.
Just curious as they say they are not sure who wrote the scrolls and...just a thought.
By His Grace I will be with Maranatha Tours from October 30th thru November 9th from Dan To Beersheba. We are scheduled to see the caves where The Dead Sea Scrolls were found and time permitting, (we will) go to where the Fire and Brimstone came down.
Thank you ,Chris for your reply, your encouragement & additional information. Will help me in my studies.God Bless you ! I hope you will / can continue communicating / commenting .
I think their apostleship started even before Christ appointed them. The apostles chosen, were favored because of their faith , looking for the Messiah, this is the heart that Jesus wants!
A looking forward, even as we look toward Him in all things in heaven and earth. These would become the qualifications.
The foundation was laid in their hope of the promise of the coming Messiah, upon which the Holy Spirit would be given at PENTECOST. Now, a firm foundation in the fulfillment of the prophecy.
Greek = translation in English alphabetical sounds = exartizo
Meaning here "finish out " also "equip fully"
If you click the scripture, in this sight it will go to another page; focused just on that scripture. Then scroll down, hover over the words/small phrases. These words are what was translated from the Greek, or other languages. If you click much deeper study.
Hopefully these are helpful
I was just reading in Exodus 32-34 in the past few days and we see that God did extend His grace and mercy towards the Israelites, so it was in effect with the Church in the wilderness ( acts 7:38). I happen to think that the "age of grace" spans all of human history. I sense that you are thinking of the administration of grace as being a time period or dispensation rather than God's administration of His grace throughout history. But, there is something to be said for the period of history after Jesus' death and resurrection being a time of fulfillment of this administration of grace, but that does not mean that it did not exist or operate prior to this time. John the Baptist would certainly have been under grace, as Jesus proclaimed Him to be the greatest person to come along in human history. I do not really wish to engage in a lengthy discussion about dispensationalism in this thread, as I think it is outside of the focus of this discussion, it being when did the apostles become apostles and when did the church begin. You can see my post to S. Spencer to read more about my perspective. Have a good evening.
Your words have blessed me. Thank you for sharing your significant history with us all.
1Thessalonians 4:13-18
As my youngest son has been considering entering The U.S. Space Force for multiple years now, it's especially exciting the depth of details in your achievements & jet. Isaiah 40:31
Good discussion going on here. I happen to think that Jesus has eternally been the chief Cornerstone of the Church, the Rock, as Paul says in 1 Cori. 10:4, that gave the "church in the wilderness" water ( Acts 7:38). so, from these Scriptures it seems that the "church" was present in the Exodus with Jesus being the Rock. I have been taught that not only does the work of Jesus on the cross reach forward to be efficacious to us, but also reaches back, even to Adam and Eve, to bring God's grace and forgiveness to mankind throughout history. This is a mystery of sorts. But those who believed in God in the O.T. were justified by faith just like us, as Paul states in several places ( Rom. 4 and Heb. 11). So, those that were justified by faith in the O.T. comprised the Church in the O.T. just as we who are justified by faith now comprise the Church in this age. They did not need to be born after Jesus' crucifixion to receive God's favor and grace, which only what we have to go on anyway.
Sometimes, it may be that we think too narrowly about the beginnings of the church, thinking chronologically, that it had to have begun after the crucifixion. But God does not always operate within chronological parameters in matters of salvation.
I do think the disciples and apostles were "in Christ" before the crucifixion and were justified by faith in Him as well. Surely some disciples may have died before He was crucified. Does that mean that their faith in Christ was useless?
It isn't time frames that determines salvation nor do I think that it is so for determining when the Church began. Both are founded on Jesus, who is eternally our Savior and the foundation stone of the Church, even from before creation. But time does matter in some ways, since we live in a temporal world. Our thinking is often bound by time, too. But by the Spirit we can think in light of the eternality of God's plan of redemption for mankind. That is where I am coming from.
To the man's heart he obeyed his master and honourable and a mighty man
Of valor all gualities of a man's heart. When he was angry with Elisha sending
His messenger out and told to wash in the Jordan which was not known to be
Clean naaman being the great leader thought it was an insult. But when his right
Hand men waited until he was calmed down and reasoned with him saying he
Didn't ask to go to battle just go dip seven times in the creek. He was healed
And a remarkable point is he went back and told the prophet that he had to go
The house of a pagan god with his boss and the prophet said go in peace.
Talk about grace!
To the man's heart he obeyed his master and honourable and a mighty man
Of valor all gualities of a man's heart. When he was angry with Elisha sending
His messenger out and told to wash in the Jordan which was not known to be
Clean naaman being the great leader thought it was an insult. But when his right
Hand men waited until he was calmed down and reasoned with him saying he
Didn't ask to go to battle just go dip seven times in the creek. He was healed
And a remarkable point is he went back and told the prophet that he had to go
The house of a pagan god with his boss and the prophet said go in peace.
Talk about grace!
Indicating he went to the right side of Paradise.
Will be destroyed and nothing but that which is holy and perfected by God
Is left. It is written.
One more important insert,
It is Christ faith in us. It's the Holyspirit that produces this.
Thanks and God bless.
his own head was blown away by what happened. He was in the desert receiving
Revealed knowledge of what was accomplished and completed and given with
the new birth. Think about this he's known for murdering any followers of Christ
Then shows up a changed man walking via the spirit and showing signs miracles and wonders. When he witnessed the hypocrisy in action of the Judean believers
That was a serious confrontation because who are you Paul to show or teach or
Tell us how to walk. Paul's gospel was to establish what Christ called him to do,
And he was always fighting legalistic division between the law works and grace
Fulfilling by the spirit walking in agapeo or perfect love. Against such there is no
Law hence the law is fulfilled. But that is only accomplished by walking in the
Spirit. There were many still zealous for the law to the point of resisting the truth
Of Christ. This is spoken of many times throughout the church Epistles and
James and Peter and Hebrews.
A few guys in my squadron claimed to be Christians, and acted like it. One was my pal Bob. Convicted, I secretly bought a small KJV Bible and often sneaked peaks at it. One day I visited Bob's room. He sat reading his KJV Bible! I said, "Bob, I want to get saved, marry a good woman, and begin a Christian home." Startled, he gave me some passages to read in my KJV, invited me to church to get saved, and introduce me to a good woman. His fianc and the "good woman" were best friends.
I went with him to Sunday School and church. Their church textbook? yyyyep, the KJV! Stepping into the class who faced us, I scanned them. There among them sat the most gorgeous woman I had seen in my entire life of 21 years! SHE was the ONE! Guys, if you saw a picture of her, you'd have to pull your eyeballs back in and eat your heart out! I was to discover that she was every bit as beautiful inside as she was on the outside! We dated nearly six months, and each and every time I saw her, I proposed to her. She finally said "yes."
Ours was a storybook romance for 61 years, 5 months, and 12 days before I lost her. While on her hospital bed, the attending nurses said to one another in our presence, "This doesn't look good." Her beautiful eyes widened as she loudly said, "I'm ready to go!" Hours later she quietly closed her eyes and slipped into the waiting arms of the Lord Jesus, whom she loved infinitely more than me. The KJV was the crowning jewel that led our little family of 4 through it all. I have a big picture of her on my wall with a WWII caption, "I'll see you after the war."
Did figured of speech in the bible among others and Bishop K.C. Pillow who
Light through an eastern window. He was raised in Hindu culture and got
Born again and wrote books on the eastern thought in scripture related to
The gospel message and meaning.
Also we who are born again the church of God i.e. body Of Christ are still here.
Trust me it will be the disappearing moment that anyone alive and left behind
We be in shock, but what will happen when we are gathered together will be
Horrible. So work the word more and build or believing faith in Him.
You stated "The apostles chosen, were favored because of their faith , looking for the Messiah, this is the heart that Jesus wants!"
I have to disagree.
The faith they needed was faith in what Christ done on the cross.
"It hadn't happened yet". They all looked for their Messiah but didn't understand what was to come. (The Church and salvation by the death and resurrection of Christ )
Thus was a stumblingblock for them and this is what John the baptist ministry was all about. Baptism of repentance.
They was still under the old covenant, Christ hadn't died to bring in the new covenant. Hebrews 9:15.
You stated "this is the heart that Jesus wants!,
No man's heart is right until the Lord gives him a new heart.
Jeremiah 17:9
Ezekiel 36:26.
The Cornerstone wasn't laid yet, so the foundation couldn't be laid and there was nothing to build on and there was nothing to build with until after Christ rose and they were inpowered.
What was the duties before the resurrection? They tried following him but couldn't.
Paul was seeking to kill Christians until he was converted.
BUT!! When they were filled they had strength and died a mortars death.
Here's they're duties before the resurrection. John 6:28-29. Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
They were chosen to be Apostles but the didn't function as an Apostles until They were filled with the Holyspirit.
God bless.
Church H.Q.so to speak verses 4-16 specifically verse 9 James Cephas or Peter
And John Pillar's of the church same James that your referencing. Then also 17-
21 completes Paul's point of righteous of law verses basically nullified by Christ or
Made of none effect.
Just curious as they say they are not sure who wrote the scrolls and...just a thought.
By His Grace I will be with Maranatha Tours from October 30th thru November 9th from Dan To Beersheba. We are scheduled to see the caves where The Dead Sea Scrolls were found and time permitting, (we will) go to where the Fire and Brimstone came down.
Yes, the excitement is mounting daily.
Thank you,
Gregory
A looking forward, even as we look toward Him in all things in heaven and earth. These would become the qualifications.
The foundation was laid in their hope of the promise of the coming Messiah, upon which the Holy Spirit would be given at PENTECOST. Now, a firm foundation in the fulfillment of the prophecy.