I am also done with this subject. It was getting a little to heavy. It seemed to me we were all getting a little frustrated and so I ended the discussions with me. Everything is good with all of us. I know the ones I have been discussing the Sabbath with are my brothers and sisters in the Lord and that we will be going on in love and respect.
Last night when I read your reply, I had considered going on with the discussions for the sake of others who might be helped by them, but when I read the usual replies refusing to accept the 4th commandment as a command from God, and still calling it an abolished law I am convinced you are right, although, I would have said it in a kinder way. Anyway, I just received a reply from Giannis and I have said "no more" because it is getting to heated and I am being accused of saying things I didn't say. Giannis is by brother in the Lord and I don't want our discussions to be more then a back and forth conversation with each other truly listening to the other side and answering concerns and questions with scripture and Godly common sense. I did ask him if he wanted to discuss the topic listed below or if not to start a discussion about something else. So I have taken your advise and have ended the "Sabbath" discussions that are addressed to me.
If I asked you to comment on what you think of Israel, if they are special to God, especially with what is going on now, is that ok or to heavy of a subject?
I am sorry Jema, I didn't mean to bombard you, I was just answering you.
Two short replies I believe I need to tell you and I won't expect a reply.
The Commandments were not LAWS. They were commands written by God not to be disobeyed. If they are the laws you say that we are no longer expected to obey them then why do we? None of you have ever answered that question.
MERRIAN-WEBSTER DICTIONARY
Bewitched:
controlled or affected by or as if by a magic spell
influenced, attracted, or charmed as if by magic
The only criteria you have for saying I am bewitched is just because I believe the 4th commandment needs to be obeyed and believers should take one day of rest from their labors each week. Your implication that I am bewitched seems kind of harsh and unloving but maybe I've misunderstood your meaning. Anyway, I will end this discussion on the subject of the Sabbath and if I reply to any of your other discussions on this forum, I'll be sure to keep it short. I do understand where you are coming from, my daughter is the same way. God Bless :)
"All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth./ Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:/Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen."
In Christ all authority in heaven and on earth resides so without abiding in him the commission cannot be discharged (Matt.28:19)( John 15:4-5). It is universal and enjoined upon ever believer.
Jesus sent the twelve disciples as associates. (Matt.10:40). This Principle of Association renders all those foreknown and called by the Father having a position, which is in heaven. God of all mercies empowers the word outflow as with the Son of man offered the living waters. "He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water" ( John 7:8).
The risen Christ gave commission to his disciples across time and space that they 'make disciple of all nations' and assured them that he was with them always till the end of time.
In giving this commission he was demanding the fullness of every disciple because the church was being built brick by brick on the living Word.
"I am the true vine" is another analogy. "For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily/ And ye are complete in him," (Col.2:9-10) Consequently the principle of Association at every node had to be perfect. "Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away."( John 15:2)
Not merely the twelve or seventy other disciples, which received the commission from word of his mouth but as we read in his prayer, "Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;( John 17:21-23) Unity of the Spirit is an essential part of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. 'I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one.'
'And I will send an angel before thee; and I will drive out the Canaanite, the Amorite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite:/ Unto a land flowing with milk and honey: for I will not go up in the midst of thee; for thou art a stiff-necked people: lest I consume thee in the way"(Ex.33:2-3).
A Tabernacle is where God desires to dwell among people. So Moses makes the tabernacle of the Congregation, which is not the tabernacle God spoke to Moses in Ex. Ch. 25. God dies not revise His Will because of some stiff-necked people are present. This Congregation is about the names found in the book of life of the Son. (Nu.14:23-24) He makes it clear of another spirit which is of obedience." (32:8).
So this corruption necessitates two kinds of tabernacle. We have here two tabernacles one that is front and the other which is back. (See under B-back side) Instead of God an angel of the Lord shall go before them. As accompaniment the pillar of cloud by day and pillar of fire by night shall follow as promised by God throughout their journey. (40:38). God's calling and gifts are irrevocable. As promised they shall be led unto the land flowing with milk and honey. However God has made it clear, 'for I will not go up in the midst of thee;'
The tabernacle of the Congregation was merely an indication that their sins would be called to account. 'Therefore now go, lead the people unto the place of which I have spoken unto thee: behold, mine Angel shall go before thee: nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them.'(Ex.32:34)
Here we have a Messianic prophecy and the Psalmist inspired by the Spirit speaks of a great congregation: "I have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O LORD, thou knowest./ I have not hid thy righteousness within my heart; I have declared thy faithfulness and thy salvation: I have not concealed thy lovingkindness and thy truth from the great congregation." (Ps.40:9-10)
'My doctrine is not mine but his that sent me' ( John 7:16) and by principle of Association every disciple who believed in the gospel and in promise of the risen Jesus ('Lo I am with you always even to the end of the world ') make up this great congregation. They were called and were foreknown. For this reason Jesus died for the dead and went in his Spirit and preached the gospel to those who were held captive. Congregation of these dead also make up the congregation that is mentioned in the above-mentioned quote.
Our God is the God of the living. The condition of death only applies to the world of the flesh,- dissolution of corporeal bodies explain it. God's promise is our safety and since we trusted in his Son we have been lifted from the world of flesh to heavenly places. This has one meaning of being part of our Savior as Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending. Predestination has thus a great congregation to which we have been added.
We were once dead in our sins but found grace to witness it before our friends and families.(Ep.2:1)Those who disregarded the good counsel of the Word are dead even though they go through motions of living. Woman who lives in pleasure is similarly dead.(1 Ti.5:6) They belong to the congregation of dead (Pr.21:16)
Our lives are as though we are among a great congregation as this verse testifies, "Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses,"(He.12:1)
Dear Momsage , as I've said before , I admire your passion for this subject but , may I suggest that you may have neglected other parts of the Bible in your zeal for this one subject ? Amos Ch 3 V 1+2 . The Bible is a whole and scripture supports and illuminates scripture . I have never said that anyone should ignore any of the ten commandments . Have you read the book of Galatians ? Ch 3 is especially helpful in this subject . I'm not much of a person to get into big debates , but there are plenty on here who enjoy that sort of thing , maybe you should direct your posts to them . Much love to you in Christ .
The olive tree mentioned is in a secular context. Israel as the people of the Law were part of the olive tree. The burning bush that did not consume itself stood in relation to the tree of life. By the same token this olive tree is set in context of the everlasting dominion of the Son. God called out as He did with Moses to be the tree of righteousness. Israel corrupted themselves. "Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb./My God will cast them away, because they did not hearken unto him: and they shall be wanderers among the nations.."(Ho.9:16-17) In their place the Gentiles have come in. They were grated to the tree. St Paul calls it is not a permanent damage or gain for the Israelites and the Gentiles respectively. "Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace."(11:5) Election of grace is open for all in his Son. God is able to restore a remanant from Israel as well break off the Gentiles (Brances) that resist divine grace. So the churches need know on what they are grafted to.
"and if the root be holy, so are the branches." The church of Rome found the root of a pagan world empire to grow mighty. from it. Is the root holy? It is only like the tree that King Nebuchadnezzar saw in his dream.(Dan.4:11-14) "He cried aloud, and said thus, Hew down the tree, and cut off his branches, shake off his leaves, and scatter his fruit: let the beasts get away from under it, and the fowls from his branches."(4:14).The command of God "Shake off the leaves, and scatter his fruit" is what we see about us, so many sects, denominations and what do they want? Prosperity! Make America great Again, Watchmen's Creed white Evangelicalism. What else can you expect from a 'mighty' but dead tree?
"Then said all the trees unto the bramble, Come thou, and reign over us." Beware cedars!
We shall look at the significance of these three mentioned in the Parable.
The vine in the parable did not want to lord over men. The joy that wine gave was unlike anything like wooing the ungovernable and wicked like the trouble sea. No one ever ruled over hoi polloi and laid aside reins unscathed. In nature rabble were like snarling dogs when checked. Oh no the vine that the Lord gave was heavenly. "The vine that makes the heart of men glad" (Ps.104:15) is associated with Jesus Christ, the true Vine. "I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing."( John 15:5)
Fig tree is a metaphor for Israel. "I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time:"(Hos.9:10)
Finally the olive tree is set down in the Bible for the Spirit found it as a tree planted by God. Its oil which make the grace of God work effectively so worship of man is found pleasing in His sight. God instructed Moses and we read thus: "The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee" (Nu.6:24)
The significance of face in the Scripture is spiritual interface between God and man.God a Spirit (and the invisible) assures,"I will instruct thee and teach thee in the way which thou shalt go: I will guide thee with mine eye."(Ps.32:8; "knowledge in the face of Jesus Christ"-2 Co.4:6)
'The Spirit moved upon the face of the waters.'Here face is where God can work with 'the waters'. So the olive tree is synonymous for man to know God and grow in the knowledge of the glory of God. The burning bush from which God called out Moses is an apt illustration. Having said this let us look at the olive tree mentioned by St Paul in Romans Ch.11. "but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy."(11:11)
Hi Jema. I have to say I honestly don't understand your reasoning. If the 10 commandments were only for the Jews, then why do Gentiles obey 9 of them even today? You say to love God and others "hang on all the laws and prophets (which is true) then you negate that by saying they were only for the Jews?? Also, you and others in thus discussion keep calling the Commandments of God laws. They are not laws, those were the statues, ordinances and laws God gave to Moses to expand on the Commandments for the Jews to fully understand. If these Commandment and what He gave Moses weren't for the Gentils of the OT then what justification did God have to punish the heathen Gentils? He had justification because there were always men who believed and lived Godly lives from the time of Adam to tell them and show them. After the Commandments and laws were given they knew even more of God and who He was. Christ became the one and only needed sacrificial Lamb for our salvation, so, of course, sacrificial laws were done away with but, obviously, the 10 Comandments weren't. If you don't believe the 2 new Commandments that Jesus gave us don't teach us the same as the 10 Commandments then please give me a scriptural reason why and explain why we still obey them today. The reason the Commandments weren't laws is because laws can be rewritten, added to or abolished but the Commandments were written by God with His own hand and they can't be treated as laws unless mankind disobediently tries to unsuccessfully. My point about this whole discussion with everyone is God commands us to take a good, relaxing rest one day a week. It is a wonderful command. Way do believers not want to obey it? You can if you trust God to make the way.
What do you think, in the light of the scripture, is going to happen to Israel and the Jews?
Please pray for us to choose our contractor wisely. We have two bids now, maybe a third. We just want to choose the one who will do good work in a timely way for us. as we repair the damage of the leak we had a week or so ago.
Hey Momsage, it is an exercise in futility. You see my "unkindness" earlier in this? As was mentioned before, you can tell the vast wisdom of scriptual "enlightenment" that some on here have acquired? Oh yes, massive dissertations, pages of deep understanding into the deepest depths of scripture. Knowledge far surpassing any of us, "childlike" people. 2 Peter 3:16 comes to mind. So smart and can't even discern Paul's teachings about the ceremonial law and the moral law. Shake the dust off your feet, I've been through this before, they too scared to walk out in faith in this truth, simple as that. Too busy "explaining" it away, the ONE commandment that starts with remember, these highly "skilled" deep thinking bible "scholars" try to teach people to forget. So be it, the Lord will judge.
If I'm misunderstanding what you are saying, I apologize. But if not, I find your comments very harsh and insulting to me as a true believer in Christ. To accuse me of these harsh things is hard to understand just because I am sure God intended for mankind to take a day off once a week and rest. I can't possible understand how you can believe the 10 commandments are not perfect, written by the hand of a perfect God. They are only given for the good of mankind from a good God. Jesus did give the 2 new commandments but he just simply combined the 10 into 2. The first one tells us to love God with all our hearts, minds and souls, this covers the first 4 of the 10; worship the one true God, do not use His name as a cuss word, don't worship false gods, and devote one day a week to rest in Him. The second one covers the last 6 which deals with treating your fellowman with how you would want to be treated; honor your parents, don't kill (ratsach: murder, slay) (even in your heart as Jesus also added), no adulatry (including in your heart as Jesus also added), no stealing, no lying ( little or big) and no coveting.
I was very hesitant to reply to you because of the unkind way you expressed your opinion, I wanted to ignore you, but I didn't because others will read your reply and I feel, in righteous indignation. that I need to debunk what you have accused me of. If you are going to accuse someone of being a heretic and holding on to garbage learned in a cult (I was never in a cult) you are being insulting and should not be on this forum which calls for kindness and love. You didn't do that. I am a true Christian, dedicated to my precious Lord and I do live my life as He would want me to based only on His word, and please don't come back with a snarky "you must think your perfect then," because I'm not. I do have my weaknesses and faults (not sins) but the Holy Spirit is always helping me to overcome them and is helping me to grow in the Lord. Again, if I am wrong, sorry.
Fear not according to a site online (I won't name it in case that is an issue) is listed 365 times in the Bible. I am aware of the message of the angels about Christ the Savior being born to the shepherds as the verse which Charles Schultz included in the famous Peanuts Christmas story when Linus dropped the security blanket as a symbolic gesture.
Of course Franklin Roosevelt gave the quote "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself." That is true to some extent; because the enemy of our souls can only do what God allows; but of course the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; which is found in numerous scriptural passages as well. It has been said that the opposite of fear is faith; and of course true love casts out fear ( 1 John 4:18). This is something only the Lord can give; for Jesus Himself had martyrdom to face daily; and Revelation 2:10 is one example given for the church; as well as the verse where Christ said to not fear what can be done to the body but the one who can cast body and soul into hell. ( Matthew 10:28). The enemy also likes to remind us as the accuser of the brethern of our sins and our condemnation which Christ took at the cross for true believers. (see Revelation 12:10). The Lord will convict us when we grieve the Spirit but that is out of love. The power of sin is death ( 1 Cor. 15:56). Jesus overcame death and the grave and took our sins on Himself at Calvary. We need to be daily reminded of these basic Gospel truths as we can become hardened to it for various reasons.
There is hope for us after death and hope is for things yet unseen ( Hebrews 11:1). Surely with the world in the state it is today we need that future expectation for any joy to be maintained; whether emotionally or as a fruit of the Spirit. Being part of the BODY of Christ is imperitive as to our identity so that we may together strive for unity in fulfilling the Great Commission and prayer and fellowship with one another for strength.
Thanks so much for your replies to me , I have enjoyed reading them and appreciate your time and energy . One thing I would say is that not all the Jews rejected Jesus , the common people heard him gladly and the first Christians were of course , Jewish people . Thanks again , I always enjoy your posts .
I am surprised that you still hold on "ALL of the 10 commandments were given to mankind until the end. We obey all of them except the 4th. Some believers say Sunday is suppose to be that day."
Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of the Law and his death and resurrection opened the Way. It is what we believe as entering into the rest of God. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away."(1 Co.13:10) How often so called believers though claim to the liberty which is in Christ carry, also their 'baggage' as Rachel did. (Ge.31:34) so Roman Catholics may leave behind Mariolatry but clutch something else. In all humility I ask you to examine your life in order to see if you are struggling under an error. In the 80s I was with a cult group and a decade or so after leaving it it gave me great many shocks their pernicious teachings could spring up in unguarded moments.
Jesus reduced the ten commandments into two. He did it as the Lord of the heaven and as the Word become flesh. The great dragon had ten horns and the Command number 10 merely an indication of judgment. Satan is already judged. Similarly the beast (Re.13:1). "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;/Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;" (1 Ti.4:1-4) It is thus those who follow doctrine of the devils have their consciences seared as with hot iron: Number Ten. Be not deceived Momsage.
"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."(Gal.2:16) Faith means resting in the promises of God. This is what abiding in Christ means.
Hi Jema. Your comment made me so sad. What you expressed is the exact result of why the Sabbath was abolished by Satan. Not that what you're doing is sin, I just mean the result of Christians abandoning this commandment to live the privilege of having this day of rest every week is no longer believed it can even be lived because of his deceitfulness, but it can. May I say, please stop wishing for it and start praying instead :) and believing for it. God knows in your heart you want to obey Him in this and He WILL make a way. Of Course, I don't know what things keep you so busy that you can't find this rest but I do know a good, good, God who gives us the desires of our hearts, especially, when it is a desire to please Him in obedience. If you understand God's intentions for this commandment you will understand that it was commanded and told to be "remembered" for our own special needs as a human. God knew that a day to rest with Him and family and at times Christian friends in fellowship would refresh us mentally, physically and spiritually until He returns. ALL of the 10 commandments were given to mankind until the end. We obey all of them except the 4th. Some believers say Sunday is suppose to be that day. This is fine but they imply the commandment was given for fellowship and worship like a church service when all God asked was for us to rest on that dayn to cease from our labor. The early church did follow the Sabbath, resting from their labor and also gathering together to break bread and worship. What better day to do that and also be in obedience to God then on the Sabbath? I'm not going to pray that God will grant your wish, but answer your prayer in providing this blessing for you. As you pray, just believe and let God do the work, don't try to figure it out for yourself as we are all so tempted to do. I love you dear sister and I look forward to seeing what God has planned for you. Jerimiah 29:11 God Bless :)
I have been blessed by the Holy Spirit to have this love for God and a strong desire to learn from His word all my life. These two blessings have been like hedges beside me to guide me down the path of life. These "hedges" kept me from straying too far to the left or right and kept me going forward in my walk with our Lord. I could look back to see that path I had traveled, but being made short of stature, not being able to see over the "hedge" to see much of what the world was doing has kept my desires for worldiness in check. Yet, I have not walked perfectly with God as Jesus always did, and so thus I need Him every day to help me stay away from the "prodigal road".
The church of Jesus is made up believers whose path in life is unique to them. Many have gone down the prodigal road and were drawn back into the life of the church in Jesus Others were dead to God through adulthood when they were made alive in Him through the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit. Others, like myself, were brought up by believing parents who taught us and went to church with us so that all of our childhood was deeply rooted in the faith. Some with this kind of upbringing have had a fervent walk with Christ, and others, nominally until the Holy Spirit lit a fire of faith and desire in them to follow God, no turning back, others have stayed the course of faith strongly all their life like I have. But it is the same God who elects, calls, saves, and sanctifies all of us. He will glorify us with Christ in the resurrection when we get the fullness of our inheritance in Christ.
Don't be sorry! Your reply is a blessing to me because this show is a tool of the devil to destroy souls. The show is suppose to be about the life of Christ but the lead actor who, plays Jesus, who has become very famous and very well admired, is of a very false religion. He is promoting his false doctrines of idolatry to the world on a YouTube post. I know I'm telling on myself that I do watch a little tv and YouTube but I like to keep up with the conservative news and what is going on. especially the war in Israel right now. Anyway, I started to watch this evil TV program, because I wantedd to see how Hollywood would present it and, they failed miserably, except for satan. He is deceiving souls with false doctrine that can get a big hold on them thus deceiving very, very many people. I watched about the first 45 minutes of the first episode and couldn't watch any more. Again, I an thrilled to know the dear Christians on this website are probably oblivious to it. No believer should having any part with it.
Hi Momsage , I know many Christians who do not watch T.V. at all , I watch a little bit , maybe one hour a day , so please don't be surprised if no one on here knows what you are talking about , I don't , sorry :( .
Hello Everyone: I'd like to ask what the opinion out there is of the TV show The Chosen. This subject may have alread been discussed but I'm new so I haven't seen any. Anyway, I'd like to see what the consensus is if it's a good thing, bad thing, or doesn't matter if it's watched or not thing? God Bless :)
HI GiGi: What a wonderful testimony of your life with Christ and your continual love for Him. Your dedication to reading and studying His word shows your great love for Him and how, because your heart was always seeking, He kept you on through the years. I love your testimony it is such a blessing to me. God Bless :)
Christ as the brightness of glory witnessed in his body. The logos aspect of the Son is the Witness so he explains, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise."( John 5:19). So we shall see what this cloud consists of. Jesus in his prayer made clear of those whom his Father had entrusted before the worlds began. "I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me."( John 17:16)
Jude in his epistle refers to them, "Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,/To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed." They are witnesses as the Son is appointed to judge the ungodly. (Jude vv.14-15) In short this cloud of witness are created from the Father Son relationship. The eternal Law serves the proof of their disobedience and as God is just their witness shall stand outside what Satan may bring up against. Also refer De.33:2.
We see them in the Book of Daniel, as witnesses, "And they brought him near before him./ And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed." (Dan.7:13-14)
"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us"(He. 12:1-2)
My most wonderful friend is Jesus. He's always there to listen, encourage, comfort and show His great love for me. I love Him beyond words and He loves me beyond imagination! Oh to be blessed by Him and know Him as Savior. To be able to live in this world without being a part of this world. God is a good, good, good God!
God sent forth his word before the worlds began so St Paul refers to it that the sounds of it has been heard. "Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world."(Ro.10:18). So we have clouds as accompaniment to the Son where he is a sign as well as heard as the Word become flesh. "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."(Matt.24:30) What we read in Re.1:7 is the same and from the standpoint of St John.
It is thus the Spirit gives the word its density where space and time holds no meaning. So judging the verse literally leads the interpreter to dead ends. Either we read with the Spirit or lose the thread of the divine Will altogether. No more egregious error we need to cite than the manner Israel and elements of the Law of Moses have taken hold great many Christians despite of their new birth and the fact that they are new creation. They are riding a dead horse.
"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."(Re.2:7) The Spirit is referring to the ear of faith. This spiritual underpinning on the scaffold of eternal word is what we need here. Those who made excuses in the Parable of the Marriage for the King's Son heard the call but did not hear well. Their ear of faith was intended. It is thus foolish teachers have taught them and their literal interpretation certainly fell short. The message to seven churches is universal and seven place names are but a handle for local churches coming together for common worship.
I am also done with this subject. It was getting a little to heavy. It seemed to me we were all getting a little frustrated and so I ended the discussions with me. Everything is good with all of us. I know the ones I have been discussing the Sabbath with are my brothers and sisters in the Lord and that we will be going on in love and respect.
Hope all is well with you. God Bless :)
Last night when I read your reply, I had considered going on with the discussions for the sake of others who might be helped by them, but when I read the usual replies refusing to accept the 4th commandment as a command from God, and still calling it an abolished law I am convinced you are right, although, I would have said it in a kinder way. Anyway, I just received a reply from Giannis and I have said "no more" because it is getting to heated and I am being accused of saying things I didn't say. Giannis is by brother in the Lord and I don't want our discussions to be more then a back and forth conversation with each other truly listening to the other side and answering concerns and questions with scripture and Godly common sense. I did ask him if he wanted to discuss the topic listed below or if not to start a discussion about something else. So I have taken your advise and have ended the "Sabbath" discussions that are addressed to me.
If I asked you to comment on what you think of Israel, if they are special to God, especially with what is going on now, is that ok or to heavy of a subject?
Two short replies I believe I need to tell you and I won't expect a reply.
The Commandments were not LAWS. They were commands written by God not to be disobeyed. If they are the laws you say that we are no longer expected to obey them then why do we? None of you have ever answered that question.
MERRIAN-WEBSTER DICTIONARY
Bewitched:
controlled or affected by or as if by a magic spell
influenced, attracted, or charmed as if by magic
The only criteria you have for saying I am bewitched is just because I believe the 4th commandment needs to be obeyed and believers should take one day of rest from their labors each week. Your implication that I am bewitched seems kind of harsh and unloving but maybe I've misunderstood your meaning. Anyway, I will end this discussion on the subject of the Sabbath and if I reply to any of your other discussions on this forum, I'll be sure to keep it short. I do understand where you are coming from, my daughter is the same way. God Bless :)
"All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth./ Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:/Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen."
In Christ all authority in heaven and on earth resides so without abiding in him the commission cannot be discharged (Matt.28:19)( John 15:4-5). It is universal and enjoined upon ever believer.
Jesus sent the twelve disciples as associates. (Matt.10:40). This Principle of Association renders all those foreknown and called by the Father having a position, which is in heaven. God of all mercies empowers the word outflow as with the Son of man offered the living waters. "He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water" ( John 7:8).
The risen Christ gave commission to his disciples across time and space that they 'make disciple of all nations' and assured them that he was with them always till the end of time.
In giving this commission he was demanding the fullness of every disciple because the church was being built brick by brick on the living Word.
"I am the true vine" is another analogy. "For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily/ And ye are complete in him," (Col.2:9-10) Consequently the principle of Association at every node had to be perfect. "Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away."( John 15:2)
Not merely the twelve or seventy other disciples, which received the commission from word of his mouth but as we read in his prayer, "Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;( John 17:21-23) Unity of the Spirit is an essential part of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. 'I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one.'
'And I will send an angel before thee; and I will drive out the Canaanite, the Amorite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite:/ Unto a land flowing with milk and honey: for I will not go up in the midst of thee; for thou art a stiff-necked people: lest I consume thee in the way"(Ex.33:2-3).
A Tabernacle is where God desires to dwell among people. So Moses makes the tabernacle of the Congregation, which is not the tabernacle God spoke to Moses in Ex. Ch. 25. God dies not revise His Will because of some stiff-necked people are present. This Congregation is about the names found in the book of life of the Son. (Nu.14:23-24) He makes it clear of another spirit which is of obedience." (32:8).
So this corruption necessitates two kinds of tabernacle. We have here two tabernacles one that is front and the other which is back. (See under B-back side) Instead of God an angel of the Lord shall go before them. As accompaniment the pillar of cloud by day and pillar of fire by night shall follow as promised by God throughout their journey. (40:38). God's calling and gifts are irrevocable. As promised they shall be led unto the land flowing with milk and honey. However God has made it clear, 'for I will not go up in the midst of thee;'
The tabernacle of the Congregation was merely an indication that their sins would be called to account. 'Therefore now go, lead the people unto the place of which I have spoken unto thee: behold, mine Angel shall go before thee: nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them.'(Ex.32:34)
Here we have a Messianic prophecy and the Psalmist inspired by the Spirit speaks of a great congregation: "I have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O LORD, thou knowest./ I have not hid thy righteousness within my heart; I have declared thy faithfulness and thy salvation: I have not concealed thy lovingkindness and thy truth from the great congregation." (Ps.40:9-10)
'My doctrine is not mine but his that sent me' ( John 7:16) and by principle of Association every disciple who believed in the gospel and in promise of the risen Jesus ('Lo I am with you always even to the end of the world ') make up this great congregation. They were called and were foreknown. For this reason Jesus died for the dead and went in his Spirit and preached the gospel to those who were held captive. Congregation of these dead also make up the congregation that is mentioned in the above-mentioned quote.
Our God is the God of the living. The condition of death only applies to the world of the flesh,- dissolution of corporeal bodies explain it. God's promise is our safety and since we trusted in his Son we have been lifted from the world of flesh to heavenly places. This has one meaning of being part of our Savior as Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending. Predestination has thus a great congregation to which we have been added.
We were once dead in our sins but found grace to witness it before our friends and families.(Ep.2:1)Those who disregarded the good counsel of the Word are dead even though they go through motions of living. Woman who lives in pleasure is similarly dead.(1 Ti.5:6) They belong to the congregation of dead (Pr.21:16)
Our lives are as though we are among a great congregation as this verse testifies, "Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses,"(He.12:1)
The olive tree mentioned is in a secular context. Israel as the people of the Law were part of the olive tree. The burning bush that did not consume itself stood in relation to the tree of life. By the same token this olive tree is set in context of the everlasting dominion of the Son. God called out as He did with Moses to be the tree of righteousness. Israel corrupted themselves. "Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb./My God will cast them away, because they did not hearken unto him: and they shall be wanderers among the nations.."(Ho.9:16-17) In their place the Gentiles have come in. They were grated to the tree. St Paul calls it is not a permanent damage or gain for the Israelites and the Gentiles respectively. "Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace."(11:5) Election of grace is open for all in his Son. God is able to restore a remanant from Israel as well break off the Gentiles (Brances) that resist divine grace. So the churches need know on what they are grafted to.
"and if the root be holy, so are the branches." The church of Rome found the root of a pagan world empire to grow mighty. from it. Is the root holy? It is only like the tree that King Nebuchadnezzar saw in his dream.(Dan.4:11-14) "He cried aloud, and said thus, Hew down the tree, and cut off his branches, shake off his leaves, and scatter his fruit: let the beasts get away from under it, and the fowls from his branches."(4:14).The command of God "Shake off the leaves, and scatter his fruit" is what we see about us, so many sects, denominations and what do they want? Prosperity! Make America great Again, Watchmen's Creed white Evangelicalism. What else can you expect from a 'mighty' but dead tree?
"Then said all the trees unto the bramble, Come thou, and reign over us." Beware cedars!
The Vine, the Olive and the Fig
We shall look at the significance of these three mentioned in the Parable.
The vine in the parable did not want to lord over men. The joy that wine gave was unlike anything like wooing the ungovernable and wicked like the trouble sea. No one ever ruled over hoi polloi and laid aside reins unscathed. In nature rabble were like snarling dogs when checked. Oh no the vine that the Lord gave was heavenly. "The vine that makes the heart of men glad" (Ps.104:15) is associated with Jesus Christ, the true Vine. "I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing."( John 15:5)
Fig tree is a metaphor for Israel. "I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time:"(Hos.9:10)
Finally the olive tree is set down in the Bible for the Spirit found it as a tree planted by God. Its oil which make the grace of God work effectively so worship of man is found pleasing in His sight. God instructed Moses and we read thus: "The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee" (Nu.6:24)
The significance of face in the Scripture is spiritual interface between God and man.God a Spirit (and the invisible) assures,"I will instruct thee and teach thee in the way which thou shalt go: I will guide thee with mine eye."(Ps.32:8; "knowledge in the face of Jesus Christ"-2 Co.4:6)
'The Spirit moved upon the face of the waters.'Here face is where God can work with 'the waters'. So the olive tree is synonymous for man to know God and grow in the knowledge of the glory of God. The burning bush from which God called out Moses is an apt illustration. Having said this let us look at the olive tree mentioned by St Paul in Romans Ch.11. "but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy."(11:11)
What do you think, in the light of the scripture, is going to happen to Israel and the Jews?
God Bless :)
Please pray for us to choose our contractor wisely. We have two bids now, maybe a third. We just want to choose the one who will do good work in a timely way for us. as we repair the damage of the leak we had a week or so ago.
I was very hesitant to reply to you because of the unkind way you expressed your opinion, I wanted to ignore you, but I didn't because others will read your reply and I feel, in righteous indignation. that I need to debunk what you have accused me of. If you are going to accuse someone of being a heretic and holding on to garbage learned in a cult (I was never in a cult) you are being insulting and should not be on this forum which calls for kindness and love. You didn't do that. I am a true Christian, dedicated to my precious Lord and I do live my life as He would want me to based only on His word, and please don't come back with a snarky "you must think your perfect then," because I'm not. I do have my weaknesses and faults (not sins) but the Holy Spirit is always helping me to overcome them and is helping me to grow in the Lord. Again, if I am wrong, sorry.
Of course Franklin Roosevelt gave the quote "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself." That is true to some extent; because the enemy of our souls can only do what God allows; but of course the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; which is found in numerous scriptural passages as well. It has been said that the opposite of fear is faith; and of course true love casts out fear ( 1 John 4:18). This is something only the Lord can give; for Jesus Himself had martyrdom to face daily; and Revelation 2:10 is one example given for the church; as well as the verse where Christ said to not fear what can be done to the body but the one who can cast body and soul into hell. ( Matthew 10:28). The enemy also likes to remind us as the accuser of the brethern of our sins and our condemnation which Christ took at the cross for true believers. (see Revelation 12:10). The Lord will convict us when we grieve the Spirit but that is out of love. The power of sin is death ( 1 Cor. 15:56). Jesus overcame death and the grave and took our sins on Himself at Calvary. We need to be daily reminded of these basic Gospel truths as we can become hardened to it for various reasons.
There is hope for us after death and hope is for things yet unseen ( Hebrews 11:1). Surely with the world in the state it is today we need that future expectation for any joy to be maintained; whether emotionally or as a fruit of the Spirit. Being part of the BODY of Christ is imperitive as to our identity so that we may together strive for unity in fulfilling the Great Commission and prayer and fellowship with one another for strength.
God made man in his image and when you look at male and female you will see God. Both are adopted and loved by God.
I am surprised that you still hold on "ALL of the 10 commandments were given to mankind until the end. We obey all of them except the 4th. Some believers say Sunday is suppose to be that day."
Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of the Law and his death and resurrection opened the Way. It is what we believe as entering into the rest of God. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away."(1 Co.13:10) How often so called believers though claim to the liberty which is in Christ carry, also their 'baggage' as Rachel did. (Ge.31:34) so Roman Catholics may leave behind Mariolatry but clutch something else. In all humility I ask you to examine your life in order to see if you are struggling under an error. In the 80s I was with a cult group and a decade or so after leaving it it gave me great many shocks their pernicious teachings could spring up in unguarded moments.
Jesus reduced the ten commandments into two. He did it as the Lord of the heaven and as the Word become flesh. The great dragon had ten horns and the Command number 10 merely an indication of judgment. Satan is already judged. Similarly the beast (Re.13:1). "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;/Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;" (1 Ti.4:1-4) It is thus those who follow doctrine of the devils have their consciences seared as with hot iron: Number Ten. Be not deceived Momsage.
"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."(Gal.2:16) Faith means resting in the promises of God. This is what abiding in Christ means.
Thanks and God bless.
I have been blessed by the Holy Spirit to have this love for God and a strong desire to learn from His word all my life. These two blessings have been like hedges beside me to guide me down the path of life. These "hedges" kept me from straying too far to the left or right and kept me going forward in my walk with our Lord. I could look back to see that path I had traveled, but being made short of stature, not being able to see over the "hedge" to see much of what the world was doing has kept my desires for worldiness in check. Yet, I have not walked perfectly with God as Jesus always did, and so thus I need Him every day to help me stay away from the "prodigal road".
The church of Jesus is made up believers whose path in life is unique to them. Many have gone down the prodigal road and were drawn back into the life of the church in Jesus Others were dead to God through adulthood when they were made alive in Him through the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit. Others, like myself, were brought up by believing parents who taught us and went to church with us so that all of our childhood was deeply rooted in the faith. Some with this kind of upbringing have had a fervent walk with Christ, and others, nominally until the Holy Spirit lit a fire of faith and desire in them to follow God, no turning back, others have stayed the course of faith strongly all their life like I have. But it is the same God who elects, calls, saves, and sanctifies all of us. He will glorify us with Christ in the resurrection when we get the fullness of our inheritance in Christ.
Can't wait.
God Bless :)
For in my hope Jesus Christ will appear to me for what I have done to recieve and be done .I will receive the love of God for me and the atonement.
Christ as the brightness of glory witnessed in his body. The logos aspect of the Son is the Witness so he explains, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise."( John 5:19). So we shall see what this cloud consists of. Jesus in his prayer made clear of those whom his Father had entrusted before the worlds began. "I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me."( John 17:16)
Jude in his epistle refers to them, "Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,/To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed." They are witnesses as the Son is appointed to judge the ungodly. (Jude vv.14-15) In short this cloud of witness are created from the Father Son relationship. The eternal Law serves the proof of their disobedience and as God is just their witness shall stand outside what Satan may bring up against. Also refer De.33:2.
We see them in the Book of Daniel, as witnesses, "And they brought him near before him./ And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed." (Dan.7:13-14)
"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us"(He. 12:1-2)
God sent forth his word before the worlds began so St Paul refers to it that the sounds of it has been heard. "Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world."(Ro.10:18). So we have clouds as accompaniment to the Son where he is a sign as well as heard as the Word become flesh. "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."(Matt.24:30) What we read in Re.1:7 is the same and from the standpoint of St John.
It is thus the Spirit gives the word its density where space and time holds no meaning. So judging the verse literally leads the interpreter to dead ends. Either we read with the Spirit or lose the thread of the divine Will altogether. No more egregious error we need to cite than the manner Israel and elements of the Law of Moses have taken hold great many Christians despite of their new birth and the fact that they are new creation. They are riding a dead horse.
"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."(Re.2:7) The Spirit is referring to the ear of faith. This spiritual underpinning on the scaffold of eternal word is what we need here. Those who made excuses in the Parable of the Marriage for the King's Son heard the call but did not hear well. Their ear of faith was intended. It is thus foolish teachers have taught them and their literal interpretation certainly fell short. The message to seven churches is universal and seven place names are but a handle for local churches coming together for common worship.