Bible Questions & Discussion PAGE 42

  • Chris - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Thanks Momsage. I respect that you don't wish to continue this discussion on the Sabbath Day; though I don't see that we have reached an impasse, rather we are drawing closer to understanding each other, using Scripture & Church practise as our rule, as we eliminate spurious references to Sabbath Day or Sunday worship.

    You wrote in another post that you provided much evidence to support the belief that the Church maintained its 'Sabbath Day worship' position. I may have missed it, as I only remember you quoted Constantine, the Laodicean Council, an RC Priest Enright, Jeremy Taylor, & maybe others. Yet, verifiable references were given you of men/writings such as Justin the Martyr, Ignatius of Antioch, the Didache (apostolic teachings), Clement of Alexandria, and others, who referred to Christians meeting on a Sunday rather than the Sabbath - all these were men who preceded the men/council you referred to. It is true that Sunday worship was ordered & ratified much later by those of the RC persuasion, but the point in this discussion is, where does the truth lie & does an RC edict cause all believers to blindly follow it? I would think that a lot more weight needs to be given to the testimony of those men (post-apostolic) & if not, then the reason(s) for their disallowance needs to be given.

    And lastly, the Ten Commandments are a single unit of obedience & requirements for Israel, not given to Gentiles nor the Church. The breaking of even one of them meant judgement - for the Law could never give life ( Galatians 3:19-21). How many in the Church have converted that Law given only to Israel to now apply to the Church as well, still mystifies me (as I read how the Law, though holy & good, has now been abrogated through Christ's death). The point that should be discussed is the relationship of that old Law to the Law given us (applied to our hearts) by the Spirit, & why some choose to fuse the two together when it cannot be done. See Hebrews 7:12,18,19. GBU.
  • GiGi - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Thanks for your graciousness, Momsage.

    I, too, am pretty straightforward. Some people appreciate this and some do not. We should always aim for harmony and graciousness, as you have to me, but it is true that at times, people can become upset about what someone says in a post. And the response to being upset can take many forms. We just need to be prayerful, humble, and ready to engage when it is helpful to do so and to disengage when it is best to do so. Have a good evening, Momsage. I like the way you describe us sitting down for a chat. Warms my heart.
  • Giannis - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Hello Momsage

    Well I do feel that I owe to present my opinion scripturally. I have done it historically so far. About debating, it is true that we all like debating sometimes in order to "push" our beliefs to others and we all occasionally get passionate. So don't worry. Also do not feel obliged to respond.

    But not today, I have no free time. Probably tomorrow. Have a blessed day. GBU
  • Rainwalker - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Hey Momsage, the truth is, they are all about the "commandments" until it comes to the 4th one. Sure, all the others are applicable, well.. of course, except this 4th one. Truth is, they don't have the spiritual "guts" to obey that one. Too scared they gonna look "funny".. or weird. They would rather throw out a bunch of scriptures out of context to hide behind; Rather than prayerfully try it out of obedience. Spiritual "whimps".. stay away from the "straight" gate.
  • Momsage - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Hi GiGi: What a mess you must be dealing with. It is a blessing the insurance will cover most of it and your husband is qualified to help with them. My prayers are with for a quick cleanup and settlement of this issue. Thank you for your comment . Seeing a post form you is like having a good friend knock on your door for a cup of coffee and chat, especially with homemade cinnamon rolls. Yum. The only reason I worry about my discussions as being to passionate is that I will offend someone but I hope I haven't. I state my view in a straightforward way so I may come across to abrupt sometimes. You are an uplifting part of this forum. God Bless :)
  • Momsage - In Reply - 2 months ago
    I know I wasn't going to comment any more on the Sabbath, so please forgive me, however, yes the laws of Moses were done away with because the Jews muddied them up so bad with their additions that they were no good anymore, but NOT the 10 Commandments (not laws) of God. These are two very different things. Worship is not in the commandment so worshipping on Sunday doesn't technically apply but to me it is a given to worship God and on the same day He set aside for us to cease all labor and REST. Denying the 4th commandment and by working on that day is disobeying God's COMMANDMENT. When the scriptures say God's commandments are not burdensome He meant it but man messed it up by changing it to Sunday because the world did, so today it is burdensome to worship and rest on Saturday. But man made it so, not God. If we had remembered to keep this commandment as God told us to, the church would not have followed the world and changed it to Sunday and then made excuses, especially by wrong interpretation of the scriptures, to do it their way. Chris and I have had long discussions about this and I know most believers think the Early Church changed it to Sunday but there is no verse that specifically says it was changed. I have provided much historical and scriptural truths to support that the Church did rest 0n the Sabbath from about 35-100AD, so you can find them if you want and see what is there. God Bless :)
  • GiGi - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Amen, Momsage,

    We love each other here on this forum and we learn as we go along in our life in Christ how to discuss differences through the working of the Holy Spirit. I love a good, hearty discussion as much as the next person, and also think that some topics are understood more deeply when serious discussions take place. So, I am thankful for your contribution to this discussion on how e are to view the Sabbath commandment post cross and resurrection.

    Have a good day. We have been out and about today looking for things we need to replace now due to the water damage we had from a plumbing leak last week. Glad the insurance company will be covering much of the damage (save our deductible and us being responsible for the pipe repair). This is the first kind of water damage incident we have had to face and also dealing with an insurance claim, although my husband was on the other side of claims as a job being a claims adjuster for his career.

    I ask for prayers that everything will go smoothly in all ways.
  • Ronald Whittemore - 2 months ago
    How do we study the Bible?

    A question we should ask ourselves; Do we study it with a confirmation bias? I know I have in the past and I must fight it every time I open the Bible. It is part of our subconscious mind; confirmation bias is when we study the Bible, we look for verses to confirm our existing beliefs, without even knowing it we ignore any Bible verses that conflict with what we believe.

    Our existing beliefs are deeply entrenched in our subconscious mind, and our subconscious mind blocks the true meaning unless we accept that we may be wrong and in prayer make a sincere effort to come to the Scriptures with an open mind as we know nothing, praying for the truth with open ears, that we may hear.

    Like stories we have heard from childhood, only two, a male and a female of each animal and bird went into the ark with Noah, or the wise men went to the manger when Jesus was a baby. Is that the truth? We must not automatically defend our beliefs without ever really questioning them, if not, the truth becomes harder to find.

    1 John 4:1, we are told to test the spirits and many other Scriptures tell us to be aware of false prophets, and false teachers, 2 Corinthians 11:13-15. It is easy to start with a doctrine, or something we have been taught, or what we believe to find Scripture that will confirm it, but is that the true meaning that God inspired the writer to write?

    I read and study the KJV, but we must be honest it is a translation and if something feels wrong in our heart, we must not ignore it. Whatever version we have we must trust it is the word of God and His Spirit will give us the understanding of it and shine light on the truth, not from our mind.

    We can study in two ways, exegesis, considering the context, and God's intent, and open to the truth given to us through the Holy Spirit, or eisegesis by reading into it with one's own presuppositions, ideas, or the traditions of man.

    Just a thought for the new year. Love you guys.

    God bless,

    RLW
  • Momsage - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Hi Oseas. I do want you to know I have ended my discussion with Chris, on the Sabbath,.we have come to an impass. I would, however answer your question after a time of study because I don't see what it has to do with the Sabbath. God Bless :)
  • Momsage - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Hi Giannis. As I just told Chris this discussion has come to an impass. I believe my problem is I like "debating" to tell what I believe with historical and scriptural proof with the responding debater using the same methods to refute what l just presented tat for tat bascially. But this is not what my discussion with Chris has been. I was debating he was discussion; apples and oranges. But he was doing what this forum calls for so I'm at fault. So I will not reply to discussions on the Sabbath anymore as it is getting us nowhere. I'll try in further posting on this forum to stick to discussions. God Bless :)
  • Momsage - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Hi Chris: It seems you and I have come to an impass. I will make one more comment and, of course, you can respond but for me I won't discuss the Sabbath anymore. I appreciate your having this discussion with me but, honestly, I feel it was a bit one-sided. I offered a lot of historical backup for proof of what I believe and scriptures too, but you didn't refute any of it with your own historical quotes or scriptures. You just basically kept repeating what you believe, like calling the commandments of God laws of God which include the other 9 so when Jesus broke us away from God's laws that must include the other 9. GiGi did help me understand the commandment doesn't say anything about the day to worship. To me that was just a given; to give God our full attention by fellowshipping with believers and focusing on the word of God on the same day we rested. That can be done on any day but the important part of the commandment is to cease from labor on Saturday (any day in your opinion) which the church no longer honors with the excuse God changed His mind and used His Son to abolish the 4th commandment for some reason.

    God Bless :)
  • Chris - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Thanks for your reply Momsage. I couldn't detect the Church ever coming together to worship the LORD on the Sabbath from the references you gave. So it seems that neither we nor yourself can scripturally prove that the Church met on either the Sabbath or the Sunday (what is otherwise called the Lord's Day: Revelation 1:10). Therefore, we cannot appeal to the Word to resolve the matter, but to what was understood & practised in the years that followed the closing of the Scriptures. I won't go into that as both Giannis & GiGi have given sufficient evidence from the writings of those post-apostolic Church saints that the Church met together on the Lord's Day (Sunday), well before the Roman Catholic Church came into existence. And if we, as the Church, choose to worship on a Sunday, do so because of what we learn from early Church practise and not from some papal or council edict.

    So, the question remains: if this be the case, why did the Church reject the Sabbath (also being the day set aside by the Jews to attend the synagogue), to meet together to break bread & worship the Lord on the first day of the week? Could it be that the Church (founded on apostolic teaching) no longer identified with the Law given by God to Israel, from which no salvation or release from sin's grip could be found, but rather attended to the Law given by the Spirit of God, which now gave both understanding & power to serve God acceptably? Maybe, what the Apostle Paul believed & preached, was also adhered to by the Church: in Romans 7:4-6 Paul stated, 'we are dead to the Law by the Body of Christ - now being delivered from the Law in which we remained dead, but now serve God in newness of spirit and not the oldness of the letter'. And this was written to remind Jewish believers that they (not Gentiles) were once under the (whole) Law, but now freed from its intended purpose & punishment as its goal, to serve God by the Spirit covered by Christ's Blood, which the Law could never do.
  • Momsage - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Hi GiGi: Yes I am passionate about this topic maybe a little more then I should be but when I see God's church disobeying His commandment it is so sad to me. You are right the commandment doesn't specifically say to worship on the sabbath. I guess to me that is a given because it's the day He sanctified to Himself. I just can't let the idea that the early church, during the Apostolic period 35 to 100 AD, abandoned the 4th commandment right after Jesus' death and started worshiping on Sunday. I do have complete faith in God that His church will be in complete unity when He returns so maybe by us discussing these things it can help us to reach that unity, although it may not look like it now. LOL Thank for replying to me. You always make me feel good. God Bless ;)
  • GiGi - In Reply - 2 months ago
    I will pray for you before I retire to bed tonight. I so can relate to how you are feeling. I pray that your throat will stay clear and stop swelling as that is a serious symptom. Try to drink lots of plain water, maybe with a touch of honey. Ginger tea can be

    soothing.
  • GiGi - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Agreed, Giannis,

    No matter what church group we affiliate with there is always the possibility of wrong teaching and practice to creep in and be widely accepted. I have seen it happen many times in my lifetime in many different church groups.

    The Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic Church became more and more institutionalized and hierarchical over the years and this did not prevent them from falling into error and corruption. ALL church groups can learn a lesson from what happened to the universal church over the centuries and be very careful about what they teach from the pulpit, what is taught in Sunday School, in home Bible Studies, and in personal study and practicing one's faith daily.

    You have done well in this conversation with Momsage. It is up to her to do with the information she found and we supplied according to how the Spirit leads her.
  • Momsage - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Genesis 2: 2-3 Exodus 30: 8-11 Mark 2:27-28 Mark 4:16 Acts 13: 14-15, 27, 42-44, Acts 15:21

    Acts 16:13, Acts 17:2 Acts 18:4

    "Protestants do not realize that by observing Sunday they accept the authority of the Spokesperson, the Pope." ( Our Sunday Visitor February 5, 1950.)
  • GiGi - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Hello again, Momsage.

    No one here is asking you to worship on Sunday instead of Saturday. You are free to use Saturday as your day of worship.

    Giannis has given you some historical information that indicates that it was customary in the early decades of the church at the time of the apostles and shortly after to come together on Sunday, the Lord's Day, to worship.

    If one wishes to follow the example of the early church and attend church services on Sunday that is fine. The Scriptures do not tell us what day to meet together for worship.

    The Sabbath commandment was for a time of rest from work, not a call to come together to worship. At the time of the giving of the command on Sinai there were no synagogues (these came into being during the Babylonian exile along with rabbis and Pharisees, Sadducees, and teachers of the law). It was also in the Babylonian exile that all the Sabbath additions to the original command were instituted. So, in the time of Jesus, going to the synagogue on Saturday was considered the norm as long as one did not have to travel more that these "requirements" allowed. (This restriction on travel was one reason that there were so many synagogues and teachers). The people were only required to go to the temple a few times per year.

    I think that in this conversation you have presented your point of view well and others such as Giannis and I have also presented our views well. It may be best to leave it at that and let others consider both views and decide according to their conscience as the Holy Spirit leads them.

    I do understand that your are very passionate about this topic. We should be serious about our worship. Since there is not a biblical verse that tells us what day we HAVE to attend worship services, I think that we can worship any and every day of the week, either singularly or corporately, according to the lead of the Holy Spirit.

    I love your zeal, Momsage. We all have topics that mean a great deal to us.
  • Chris - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Hi Momsage. You asked for "biblical proof that the early church worshiped on the first day of the week". The verses already given, I admit, don't specifically show that day to be Sunday. But was wondering, are there any verses that show the the early Church worshiped on the Sabbath? I know that the Apostle Paul frequently went to the synagogue on the Sabbath ( Acts 13:14, Acts 18:4), but clearly that wasn't to celebrate the day with the Church, but to minister to the Jews. I just can't think of an occasion where it stated that the Church met on the Sabbath for worship, in spite of 'Jeremy Taylor' stating that they did (without Scriptural references given).
  • Chris - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Hi Cheryl1655. What you have asked does seem confusing to most casual readers of the Bible. But there are two possible explanations so as to understand a little better about Lot's daughters.

    a. It is possible that Lot had four daughters: two were still living at home with their parents ( Genesis 19:12, when the angels asked Lot if he had any other 'family' besides those they could see there with him; and Genesis 19:15, the angels urged Lot to quickly bring out his wife & his two daughters WHICH ARE HERE, i.e. present in the house with them). So, maybe from these verses we can assume that Lot had four daughters: two virgins living with him & two living with their husbands, & these could have perished with their husbands because of their refusal to leave Sodom.

    b. The other possibility is that Lot only had two daughters, but they were not married to their (future) husbands, but were betrothed to them. As you probably know, that in those days & in that culture, when two people were bethrothed (engaged) to each other, they were considered as a married couple, only because of the binding commitment that such an engagement required, & not by actually living & sleeping together. We can remember the account of Joseph & Mary ( Matthew 1:18,19) where Joseph's espousal to Mary was considered as a marriage, though they didn't live together, yet, Joseph was still intending to "put away" (divorce) Mary for her supposed infidelity. But the Angel of the Lord intervened quick smart to stop him acting foolishly.

    You can examine these options before you & decide for yourself. My leaning is to the latter, of Job having only two daughters, betrothed to men, but choosing to leave them in preference to what the Angel had warned them concerning God's Wrath over the city.
  • Momsage - 2 months ago
    I can't help but wonder if those in the Christian Community who adored and promoted the TV show The Chosen have any clue



    as to what the devil's next step is in creating this show? I'm sure most of you have seen the ads on TikTok promoting the app

    Hallow by, guess who, Jonathan Roumie. This app promotes Catholicism with praying the rosary, for one thing, as being a

    complete worship of Mary. Blatant idolatry. Jonathan Roumie is now a famous man with many ardent followers and his intention

    is to convert as many poor souls to this terrible religion as he can. I knew the TV show was just the beginning of something like

    this when found out he was a devote Catholic. One viewer commented he loved listening to him because he had such a

    soothing, peaceful voice. Do you suppose the devil can use a soothing, peaceful voice to fool souls? I pity Jonathan Roumie and

    am praying earnestly that he will find true salvation, leave this church and denounce it. Only God knows.
  • Oseas - 2 months ago
    Re.12:10-17KJV 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven (heaven?Eph.1:3.Take a look), Now is come salvation, and strength,and the Kingdom of our GOD,and the power of His Christ:for the accuser of our brethren is cast down,which accused them before our GOD day and night.

    11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb,and by the word of their TESTIMONY;and they loved not their lives unto the death.

    12Therefore rejoice,ye heavens(heavenly places in Christ JESUS-i.e. the celestial environments of the Old and New Testaments),and ye that dwell in them-the believers-.Woe to the inhabiters of the earth(Israel)and of the sea!(sea/waters=peoples,and NATIONS,and multitudes of all tongues-Gentile peoples-which were deceived by that old serpent that deceives the whole world)for the Devil is come down unto you,having great wrath,because he knows that he has but a short time.13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth(from the heaven- Isaiah 14:12-15),he persecuted the woman...

    14And to the woman were given TWO WINGS of a great eagle(the Old Testament and New Testament-two witnesses of GOD- Revelation 11:3-4.Take a kook),that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place,where she is nourished(by the Old and New Testaments-the Word of GOD,the Scriptures)for a time,and times, and half a time,from the face of the serpent.

    15And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman(be careful,don't drink of that water),that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

    16And the earth(144K of Israel- Revelation 7:1-10 and 14:1-5.Take a look)helped the woman(the Lord's Church- John 10:15-16),and the earth opened her mouth,and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

    17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman,and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. -The testimony of Christ is the Spirit of prophecy-Re.19:10 combined with Ro.8:9-11.GET READY
  • Momsage - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Please show biblical proof that the early church worshiped on the first day of the week. The two verses that are usually stated are the only ones I've seen used for this belief but consider a different interpretation; 1 Corinthians 16:2 This verse only states that Paul asked the church members to collect donations on the first day of the week for when he came again. Nothing is said that it was done at church services. Roman 14:5 Does your church only meet on Sunday to fellowship and hear preaching and teaching? This verse is just speaking of believers gathering on A Sunday to fellowship and listen to Paul preach because he had to leave the next day. It doesn't interpret as abolishing their regular worshiping on the Sabbath.

    The Holy Catholic Church was involved in changing the sabbath to Sunday, these historical quotes, among others, proves it.

    "The PRIMITIVE (my emphasis) Christians did keep the Sabbath of the Jews before the Christians for a long time together, did keep their convocations upon the Sabbath in which some portions of the law were read and this continued till the time of the Laodician Council." The whole Works of Jeremy Taylor, Vol. IX p416

    "It was the Holy Catholic Church that changed the day of rest form Saturday to Sunday, the first day of the week. And it not only compelled all to keep Sunday, but at the Council of Laodician, AD 364, anathematized (cursed) those who kept the Sabbath and urged all persons to labor on the 7th day under penalty of anathema (excommunication.)" Catholic Priest T. Enright,

    CSSRR, Kansas city, Mo (The Holy Catholic Church was involved with Laodicean Council , taking serious steps to put a stop to Christians still worshipping on the sabbath hundred of years after Christ.)

    Please use scripture and historical proof for your comments. GOD COMMANDED us to rest and worship Him on one particular day of the week in one particular way. As for me I choose to obey God not man.

    God Bless :)
  • Giannis - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Hello GiGi

    It is true that the church who was established by Jesus on Pentecost, along the centuries slowly but steadily departed from their initial faith and doctrines. Both the R Catholic church and the Eastern Orthodox church became secular churches whose function does not result in leading people to Christ and save them from distruction, although there is a small fraction in both churches who love Jesus and strive to live according to the Bible, although they follow some wrong traditions and practises. I think the Orthodox church stands closer to the truth than the R/Catholics but still...

    But just because those churches are now away from the truth, that doesn't mean that they were always like that. And we cannot definitely reject all the early christians and their writtings especially those who lived at the same time or shortly after the apostles. Their writtings can shed light on the practises and beliefs of that ancient church. Sunday/Lord's Day was very soon separated as a the main day of them meeting to pray and teach and have holy communion, it is very obvious in their writtings. In addition their writtings are not in any contrast with the Bible. In the Book of Acts it is very evident that the apostles tought people not to follow the Old Testament's ordinances including Sabbath. The Jews who became christians did actually keep the Sabbath as well as all the Mosaic Law but that was not right and was only tolerated by the apostles in Jerusalem. Paul was not in agreement to that tolerance and tought the Jews who were spread among the nations that the Law was abolished and there was not any need to keep any of those ordinances as they were in contrast with our Lord's grace. I hope that bothers who still keep the Sabbath may sometime realize that the do something which is not right It is good to stand as close to the truth as possible. GBU
  • Giannis - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Momsage, 2/2

    So it is obvious that Constantine issued a Law for all populations and religions in his empire concerning a rest day during the week. He prefered a day that the pagans celebrated the God Sun, the Day of the Sun, which also coincided with the already existing rest day of the christians, the Lord's Day. So there was a common day of rest for all peoples and religions.

    Next we will talk Biblically.

    And something you must know. In early church books one may encounter the term "catholic". Catholic is a greek word which means universal, and with that meaning it must be understood when reading those writtings. It is about the early united universal church. The early christians called their church as "The One Holy and Catholic(universal) and Apostolic(descending from the Apostles) Church". It had nothing to do with the later established Roman Catholic church who included the term catholic in their title with the purpose to claim that only them were the true universal church. It was just one fraction of the early church. So do not misunderstand the term catholic in those early writtings, it was not about the Papacy.

    GBU
  • Giannis - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Hello Momsage, 1/2

    Lets talk historically, not Biblically

    On the 7th of March 321 AD, Constantine ordered Roman citizens to honor the "Day of the Sun", so it became an official holiday and a rest day. But only for those who lived in the city. Those in the countryside were excluded from it.

    His first Sunday Law states, "All judges and city people and the craftsmen shall rest upon the venerable day of the sun. Country people, however, may freely attend to the cultivation of the fields, because it frequently happens that no other days are better adapted for planting the grain in the furrows or the vines in trenches. So that the advantage given by heavenly providence may not for the occasion of a short time perish".

    As it can be seen from the above Constantine's Law had nothing to do with christians or Jews, they are not mentioned in his Sunday Law's (there were two of them). His Laws concerned all people, pagans and christians. Also it can be seen that the rest day of Sunday has nothing to do with Sabbath as it was allowed for farmers to work in the fields, something forbidden during the Sabbath, so it is obvious that Sunday was not a substitute for Sabbath.

    At that time Constantine held the title of Pontifex Maximus, the highest title of a priest in the Roman pagan religion. Also at that time christians called Sunday as Lord's Day (the greeks still do). From the references I gave you in my post yesterday it can be seen that for Christians the Lord's Day was already a holiday for about 250 years before Constantine's Sunday Laws.

    , ' , , , . , ( ), .

    [26] 3 321.
  • Momsage - 2 months ago
    "The primitive (my emphasis) Christians did keep the Sabbath of the Jews before the Christians for a long time together, did keep their convocations upon the Sabbath in which some portions of the law were read and this continued till the time of the Laodician Council." The whole Works of Jeremy Taylor, Vol. IX p416 (Historical poof the church worshiped on Saturday until Constantine and the Catholic Church made it mandatory to worship on Sunday.)

    I know the world has made it very hard for true believers to honor the 4th commandment. The other nine are getting that way too, but does that excuse us from obeying them? Again how do we justify ignoring the 4th commandment and not the other nine? Jesus' rest is a spiritual rest, the commandment is a physical, mental and spiritual rest. One doesn't replace the other. No scripture says that. There's no wrong in worshiping on Sunday and relaxing but the commandment was for the seventh day; Saturday so it must be done on that day also if we are to be obedient to what God wants us to do. You say I'm being legalistic? Well, I'm not going to worship another God, or take God's name in vain, or build idols to worship, or to not honor my parents, or to murder, or lie (not even little white ones) or to steal or to be jealous, is that being legalistic? If so then I love being legalistic and obeying God's commandments and that is why I worship and rest on Saturday. Each commandment is clear including the 4th. It is so simple, however, we've let the world command us to what day we worship and rest. However, even that has pretty well fallen along the wayside. Our disregard for resting on the sabbath has brought us to a place where we disregard ceasing our labor in any way that resembles what God commanded us to do even on Sundays and the world is suffering because of it

    God Bless :)

    I am not a part of any church or denomination.
  • Momsage - 2 months ago
    "The PRIMITIVE (my emphasis) Christians did keep the Sabbath of the Jews before the Christians for a long time together, did keep their convocations upon the Sabbath in which some portions of the law were read and this continued till the time of the Laodician Council." The whole Works of Jeremy Taylor, Vol. IX p416 (Historical poof the church worshiped on Saturday until

    Constantine and the Catholic Church made it mandatory to worship on Sunday.)

    I know the world has made it very hard for true believers to honor the 4th commandment. The other nine are getting that way too, but does that excuse us from obeying them? Again how do we justify ignoring the 4th commandment and not the other nine? Jesus' rest is a spiritual rest, the commandment is a physical, mental and spiritual rest. One doesn't replace the other. No scripture says that. So worship and relax ,on Sunday but the commandment was for the seventh day; Saturday so it must be done on that day if we are to be obedient to what God wants us to do. You say I'm being legalistic? Well, I'm not going to worship another God, or take God's name in vain, or build idols to worship, or to not honor my parents, or to murder, or lie (not even little white ones) or to steal or to be jealous either, is that being legalistic? If so then I love being legalistic and obeying God's commandments and that is why I worship and rest on Saturday. Each commandment is clear including the 4th. It is so simple, however, we've let the world command us to what day we worship and rest. However, even that has pretty well fallen along the wayside. Our disregard for resting on the sabbath has brought us to a place where we disregard ceasing our labor in any way that resembles what God commanded us to do even on Sundays and the world is suffering because of it.

    God Bless :)

    I am not part of any denomination.
  • Momsage - 2 months ago
    I've read every verse in the NT KJV bible that uses the word rest. I do not understand how any of these verses, standing alone, or used with others, presents an understanding that the rest of Jesus changes the Sabbath to Sunday including the two above. It WAS the Laodicean Council of 324 AD with the support and compliance of the Catholic Church that abolished the sabbath and replaced it with Sunday under penalty of being cursed or excommunicated if not adhered to.



    SEE BELOW

    "Constantine published the Edict of Milan, granting freedom of religion in the empire and establishing Sunday a day of worship" Collier Encyclopedia, vol 7, p. 212

    "It was the Holy Catholic Church that changed the day of rest form Saturday to Sunday, the first day of the week. And it not only compelled all to keep Sunday, but at the Council of Laodician, AD 364, anathematized (cursed) those who kept the Sabbath and urged all persons to labor on the 7th day under penalty of anathema (excommunication.)" Catholic Priest T. Enright,

    CSSRR, Kansas city, Mo (Obviously the Catholic Church was present in 364 AD to take part in what the Laodician Council was doing to change the sabbath to Sunday.)

    "The Bible says remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day. The Catholic Church says No! By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week. and low the entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the Holy Catholic Church." American Sentinel, Father Enright, 1893 (This quote is from 1893 not what he is saying in his quote.)
  • Momsage - 2 months ago
    To disregard this sure and steadfast commandment that God intended for our good pleasure is so sad. All of the other commandments are to be obeyed so we will live the holy life God intends for us to live to gain Heaven, but the 4th commandment is for our physical, emotional and spiritual good. It is a gift we try to give back to God and say "no thanks," however, it is also a commandment and God said if we love Him we will obey His commandments because they do not cause us to be burdened. 1 John: 5:3 and Luke 6: 13-14

    Nothing in these verses below tells us to replace the Sabbath with the beautiful rest of Jesus. We are steadfastly in His rest as long as we are true believers.

    Matthew 11:28-29 "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls."

    Acts 2:26 "Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope."

    Thessalonians 1:6-7 "And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels."

    1 Corinthians 16:2 "Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come." (Paul is just asking the church to gather donations on the first day of each week for when he comes, it doesn't in any way point to them having to be in church to do this.)

    Romans 14:5 "And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight."(Question? Does your church only meet on Sunday to fellowship and hear preaching and teaching? This verse is just speaking of believers gathering on a Sunday to fellowship and listen to Paul preach because he had to leave the next day. It doesn't interpret as abolishing their regular worshiping on the Sabbath.)
  • Momsage - 2 months ago
    SABBATH

    Genesis: 2:2-3 " Thus the heavens and the earth were finished and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made." Exodus 20:8 "Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy."

    "seventh" shebiith: an ordinary number

    "rested" sabath: cease, desist, rest

    "sanctified, holy qadash consecrate

    "sabbath" sabath intermission

    These verses speak of the 4th commandment that God gave (not asked) us to obey to honor Him by resting on the seventh day. God saw this need for us, in order to refresh our bodies, minds and souls. He gave us the other nine, also, for our good. The world, unfortunately, has decided to disregard this commandment so there is no sanctified or consecrated day anymore given only to the Lord to worship Him and for ourselves to enjoy. Believers should recognized that God, not only gave this wonderful commandment to us for our good, but He emphasized it by commanding we remember it. However, He knew it would fall along the wayside. He knew believers would excuse away abstaining from labor on the Sabbath by this and that and the other thing. Believers try to use the scripture to excuse themselves from obeying this commandment but it is just as imperative for a believer to believe and obey this 4th commandment as it is for them to believe and obey the other nine. These commandments are of God. God wrote the them on tablets Himself. After that He gave Moses laws, statues and ordinances to help the people further understanding these commandments. These commandments are the foundation of our walk with God. Because the people had added to the Laws of Moses in many foolish ways these are what Jesus rid the world of when He came, but He didn't, in any way, abolish or change God's commandments. When God gave All His 10 commands to the race of Adam it was for always


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