One Eighty, Nothing you have written has offended me. I just took your posts as from one who sincerely wants to explore the queries that come up when thinking about God and other spiritual matters. Have a good evening.
I flipped to a random page in the Bible and asked God to give me some sort of sign or reassurance (I am Christian but not super religious at all and am not very educated about it) and got:
Romans 7:19
"For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do."
It is worth mentioning that I have strong same-sex attraction, which I am not really ashamed of, just extremely worried that I will not go to Heaven, assuming there is one, because of it. If I could turn any alleged sin into a non-sin, it would absolutely be gayness. Was this chapter a sign, do you think? What exactly could this exact passage mean in my scenerio? Do you have any advice?
Thank you. Your thoughtful replies whether short or lengthy, are so much appreciated, and not in vain. I think you'll agree, we
have no clue, in general, as to what degree, and when our thoughts and words have on others, whether positive or sadly, negative, yet we understand they will. Yet, I don't want to speak for you.
It is my intention to continue thinking on what you and Richard thoughtfully wrote. Whether I agree or not really doesn't matter as much as having a respectful, loving attitude towards everyone. In retrospect, I realize I have been a bit emphatic at times, with my words, which maybe seemed disrespectful to some. Damn ego. My apologies to anyone who's perceived that I've disrespected them, and would ask, for their own benefit as well as mine, to forgive me.
A brief point to this is that God uses Satan for His purposes (as stated in my recent posts). God has allowed this usurper to complete his purposes for the redemption of man ( Genesis 3) to the crucifixion and betrayal of Christ based on prophecies of Judas in Psalm 109; etc. God has to have an instrument to do these evil things as He himself cannot sin. Christ had to take on our sins as the innocent lamb after a sinless life of obedience. Thus; He CANNOT do otherwise; no other meethod than belief in the Son of God and no other work will atone for our sins; thus in creation there is no way we can "save ourselves."
ALL of these things bring glory to God; and He is praised forever. In eternity; of course we will begin to live as we were designed to in a sinless state learning evermore from God and enjoying the splendors of heaven.
Sin therefore for God's elect is never "stronger" as it were than God's mercy and forgiveness. There are simply two realities; one for those saved and one for the lost. It appears as the wheat and tares there is no difference as we all live in the world but are not OF it.
As always; I feel remiss if I don't make an extremely strong push here towards conveying jut how real the enemy is and his stranglehold over this world. But as with the way we approach God; the book of Jude makes it clear we dare not make a "railing accusation" ( Jude 1:9). We appeal to the Lord or we stand vulnerable to being squashed like a bug.
Understanding how sin; and evil men facilitate God's plans are beyond our understanding; nonetheless Pilate put up the INRI on the cross stating who Christ was (King of the Jews). The Lord has the last laugh (and as I stated before is the only one in destruction of the wicked to be able to do that without sinning).
Again probably this brings more questions. I hope you get some joy as 2023 comes in.
I'll try a couple points here; although I can fairly well predict any answers will lead to more questions.
I will let you find the verse where Jesus was "amazed" at the faith of the Centurion. There are other verses where God is hot with anger as well as being called a "jealous" God. And perhaps that explains why only God can hate with a "perfect" hatred; for anyone else to try it would be sin.
Perhaps the idea in the verse that "no suitable" mate was found was more of an exercise for Adam to discover this truth about the animal Kingdom. In any event; man uniquely came from Adam's rib as stated in the scripture. Eve means this; as "woman" came out of "man". This brings a soul connection to men which the animal kingdom wouldn't possess; hence rules exist for us as to being equally yoked; nonetheless a marriage vow before God is still classified as a marriage. To have the Lord in the relationship is the only way that our spirit in that sense ( Romans 8:16) as to unity among men; the marriage however is still seen as one in soul. That's the best I can see it. It also explains why we can't just mess around before marriage either as that involves only a fleshly union; and I am convinced any soul connection as it were is in reality a demonic deception. d
It is also to remember that Lucifer also was created perfect in his ways ( Isaiah 14). Pride brought him down; as it did with man.
I hope you will consider the fact tht God only draws those the Father has given Him. ( John 6:44). Thus; our eternal fate was already decided among the Godhead before time began; He will not lose anyone of His sheep. I'm not sure a long Calvanist dissertation will be helpful here but I thought searching the scripture as with all things would.
Evil within the garden is an interesting point. We can look to Rev. 12:10 and see it appears until the midpoint of the Trib those in heaven are accused; they are certainly blasphemed from earth ( Rev. 13:6). So good can evil can be nearby.
I suppose this post has been up; I didn't know my opinion was of interest-seems like Gigi did an extensive one; and "ontological" is beyond my "pay grade" in terms of scientific vocabulary.
I tried to start responding and as always my extra tabs wiped out the page. Anyway; it is somewhat heartening that you seem to know the Lord.
Starting off here; I'm too lazy to once again get all the exact quotes. Roughly speaking I was going to say that in Psalm 139 we are said to be "fearfully and wonderfully made." In Ecclesiastes 7:29 the "uprightness" of man is mentioned but that he goes astray for "many inventions". A big point many make is about the age of accountability. I can't see how anyone is lost forever in condemnation without understanding some basic things about sin and punishment which probably begins with child rearing. David's quote about the child that died seems to indicate a certainty that he will see him someday but not until he dies ( 2 Samuel 12:23).
Sin; death and decay (as brought up through the concept of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics) really can't be explained other than it happens; much like concepts like gravity. I would say simply the spirit of a man lives foreever; whether in restored (saved) condition or lost. Man would have lived forever in an "innocent" state if he hadn't sinned. This would not have enabled him to rule and reign with Christ as we can now; nor fulfilled His plans for free agents in the spirit realm to choose to rebel or remain with Him in their "proper estate". ( Jude 1:6). Whether we understand sin as we get older we see more and more of the effects. God has designed this world to unwind; and eventually be destroyed and replaced with a new heaven and earth. Things in the sovereignty of God ( Deut. 29:29) remain there at least this side of eternity. Proverbs 25:2 states that kings have some things revealed which may suggest as "kings and priests" in Him some understanding comes. We are not God who knows all.
I can appreciate the time taken in your reply. Thank you. I continue to pray for you.
I just read a recent post reminding someone about the guidelines (2nd half of first paragraph). I bring this up, as I'm concerned, and realize my comments may appear to others as an attack on Christianity, or close to it.
My introduction to Christianity began as a young child, having a devout Christian mother. Since then, I was fairly consistent in my involvement in church, until around fifteen years ago. I continued though, reading and meditating on the Bible and God. I can't remember the last time, even on a bad day, when I haven't thought about God. I'm certain you and millions others can relate.
I'm also certain that if I respond to you in complete honesty, not withholding comments and questions important to me,which I would pray and hope would lead towards better understanding, I would probably be banned. I don't want that. Yet, although I wish this was not the case, I know myself well enough, it would upset me to upset you and others. I don't want that; for any of us participating. I perceive your integrity, thus I understand you would not want to have a dialogue with someone who could not speak freely while you could. Please understand, I don't feel slighted or hold any bitterness. It's just the way it is.
I'm not saying that I won't participate any more. I'm not sure; I try not to make these decisions on my own. If I do, I'll need to lean NOT on my own discernment.
Alex1939...Gi Gi your situation touches me...Praying for you in the name of Jesus and the Kingdom the babes and sucklings...Take heed that you despise not one of these lil ones... Matthew 18:10...In heaven their angels do always behold the face of my father in heaven...Unless you receive the Kingdom of God as a lil Child you will in no wise enter there in...The lil ones are spirits...The H.G. the Children of Promise...The result of his seed...Our new hearts and new spirits...Our new innerman...k Gbu G
Psalm 70 and 71. These two Psalms would appear to be a continous passage; let me know if I'm wrong here. This is the last Psalm related to David personally in this section and Psalm 72 indicates the last one authored by David as related to Solomon.
The theme of being "poor and needy" and making haste for help is seen repeated once again as we saw in Psalm 69 and most of the preceding Psalms in the 2nd section of the book. Verse 18 makes it pretty clear that he was indeed aged with the gray hairs mentioned and a point blank statement of being old. He desired to remain until he reached "this generation" and power to every one that is to come. This would be accomplished of course through giving Solomon quite a financial and planning "jumpstart" to the opulent Temple being built with a modern day value of materials easily in the billions. I have seen estimates in the HUNDREDS of billions. How sad that Solomon's downfall basically ended the Kingdom of Israel and let to a divided state which has to date never reached it's fullest glory but will in the Millennium.
We notice in verse 17 David recognized being taught from an early age. Solomon also had proper upbringing but didn't learn until his life was nearly over the folly that his life became following foreign women and hoarding possessions despite God's warnings to him. Such is the message of Ecclesiastes. May we all learn so as not to embrace madness and folly to achieve understanding!
Praise and proper worship (verse 22-24) also were remembered by David. He was a man after God's own heart ( 1 Samuel 13:14) which Saul didn't like to acknowledge. This was despite his grevious sin with Bathsheeba that the Lord ultimately used for His purposes but cost him the privilege of building the Temple himself. ( 1 Chron. 22:18 and elsewhere).
Psalm 69. The first few verses of the Psalm are reminiscent of Psalm 40 and several other psalms about being lifted from the mire.
Verses 3 through 8 precede verse 9 which was quoted in the New Testament ( John 2:17) when Jesus overturned the moneychangers tables (done at least one more time at the end of His ministry). They all could be prophetic about Christ as well; except for verse 5 talking of David's foolishness and sin; as well as the end of verse 4 where he was sid to "restore that which was not taken away" which would seem to indicate he had to give compensation to those accusing him of stealing stuff that he never took from them.
Verses 10 through 12 involving sackcloth and fasting also would apply to David alone (Christ's fasting wasn't for any sins of his own but as an example of how to be more fully empowered with the Spirit to cast out particular demons ( Matt. 17:21). When we go further from verses 13 through 19 once again the themes of mire and deep waters are mentioned; and these passages once again are rather interchangeable between David and Christ's trials.
Verses 20-22 once again are clearly prophetic; Christ's heart literally was boken (v. 20); verse 21 is quoted in Matt. 27:33-34; and verse 22 through 28 are likely describing Judas Iscariot as seen more clearly in Psalm 109 and several other passages. I would say that verse 28 is describing the book of ALL living souls; not the Book of Life. Finally; verse 29 also ties in with Psalm 109 in describing Christ at the crucifixion.
The rest of this Psalm gives hopefulness with again a Millennial type Kingdom to come. Sacrifice isn't needed of animals (v. 31) but I suspect it is a ceremonial and memorial thing.
Prisoners will be released (v. 33); and the land will have it's covenant borders and the world blessed (v. 34-end). The Lord will be praised throughout the earth. Amen.
Alex1939...Hiya...WhiteWalk...Lemme give ya my take on the water and the blood...Its prophetic of the New Covenant in his blood...A birthing covenant...When a woman gives birth blood and water is 1st thing she sees...Smite the shepherd and the sheep will be scattered..Then I will turn my hand to the lil ones...The babes and sucklings an Israel of God...As that which is born of the spirit is spirit Zech 13 :7 is telling us...God was making a New Covenant with the blood and the water of Jesus...Behold the lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world...The blood and the water is indicative of a Birth of Christ in us...Humanity...The water is symbolic of the water of the living word as you are made clean by the word i have spoken unto you...And this is the blood of the New Covenant drink ye all of it...But even in the natural there is always a child that precedes the blood and the water...The Child is the H.G. That Child of Promise...b/c of his death, when a seed dies it multiplies...Had he not died there wd have been only 1 Christ Jesus but b/c of his death he will be multiplied as the stars of heaven...When they saw the blood and the water they knew he had died...And thats y Zech. is saying he is our 1st born our only son...When a seed dies it multiplies...The lil ones ...There is much more to this New Covenant on Calvary then what meets the eye...Its hid from the wise and prudent but revealed unto babes...The H.G. That CHILD of
Promise... Zech 12:10 and Zech 13:7...Thats y he always refered to himself as the son of man...B/C of his death mankind will bring forth fruit unto God.. Romans 7:4...This is the New Covenant in my blood drink ye all of it... In Adam we all die but in Christ we will all live...If i be lifted up i will draw ALL MEN UNTO ME....OK
The word in the New Testament is referred to several times as the water (probably for the word's cleansing of the heart). Ephesians 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word. St. John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. St. John 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Sometime the reference to the water and the word are not in the same verse, but in the following verses it is the water, the word that a person becomes born again. St. John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. Could also be the separation from sin symbolized by baptism, the children of Israel passing through the Red Sea, etc.
Hello WhiteWalkDawg. There have been several interpretations of this verse, so you might get other views. For me though, I believe that 1 John 5:6 speaks of Jesus' inauguration to His Earthly Mission and then finally His completion of it. Therefore, the Water signifies His baptism by John, to which the Holy Spirit was witness, by His descent upon Jesus ( John 1:32,33). And the Blood signifies His shed Blood at the Cross, where Jesus said "it is finished...and gave up the Ghost" (or, released His Spirit), John 19:30.
So, not only in the Gospel of John, but also in this his first epistle, we read of the Holy Spirit's witness & involvement; which witness could not be disputed, unlike some in John's day who were trying to dispute the truth of Jesus' Person & Work. In 1 John 5:6, the Spirit of Truth bore witness to Jesus' start & completion of His Work. In 1 John 5:7, we read of the Triune God bearing record in Heaven, and then in verse 8 (on Earth), three bear witness to Jesus' Mission.
We do well to "receive the witness of men" & we are likely to be convinced. But "the witness of God is greater" ( 1 John 5:9), which must give us no room for any doubt & a certainty that all that Jesus has accomplished for us is fully accepted by those to whom the Spirit of God has been given.
Hi Michael. It is my belief that 1 John was written to believers. Maybe as a general epistle sent to the churches in Asia Minor, sent to teach, encourage & warn them. References such as 1 John 2:1,12,13,18,28; 1 John 3:17,18; etc, show that John is addressing those who are in the faith (his little children), some of those may be immature in faith. Certainly, there were unbelievers amongst them, since a part of this epistle was to warn the believers of false teaching ( 1 John 2:18,19,26; 1 John 3:7; 1 John 4:1-3) making inroads into the Church.
In reference to 1 John 1:8-10: one aspect of gnostic teaching was that God was not entirely perfect (pure); that both good & evil existed within Him. Not only is this belief reprehensible, it also led to diminishing any sin (even the principle of sin) as of no consequence, since God remains unconcerned about it. But John stated that "God is light, and in him is no darkness at all" ( 1 John 1:5): God is altogether holy/pure - no darkness or evil can be found in Him. Therefore, if it be said that "we have no sin (i.e. the principle of the existing sin nature in us), we are simply deceiving ourselves". We ought not to believe those false teachers who deny this & by extension, "that we have not sinned (i.e. experientially)" (v10). But John is reminding them that we are sinners by nature & performance, but if we recognize sin for what it is & come to God in confession of it, 'he is faithful and just to forgive us & cleanse us entirely' (v9).
Even another striking false teaching is found in 1 John 4:2,3: the denial of the deity of Christ as the gnostic (docetic) teaching was that deity could never unite with anything material. Their claim that this Jesus was just a man endowed with a special anointing; or another teaching: He didn't have a body & was just a spirit, hence He could not die on the Cross; and probably many others beliefs that would take away from the demonstration of God's Love in the sacrifice of His Son.
This is Rome at the beginning which are the latter part of Alexander the great and his army as for America it's not mentioned as America but it's the European blood which becomes America rev 12 great red dragon 7 heads1 Greece 2 Rome 3 Spain 4 France 5 Germany 6 Russia 7 Britain America is the 8th head which comes from the 7 th
5. Love: Agape-Unconditional. We can't find such a resource in our tool box in our own strength. Go ahead and try and let me know how it works for you. People have; sadly referred to God's love as "reckless"; I will leave out the particular artist that comes to mind with such language...
We are in a feckless world; and the fact that the love of many will grow cold ( Matt. 24:12) certainly extends into the professing church as we see the warning to the Ephesian church ( Rev. 2:4). It is good to be looking for love in the RIGHT places; but sadly many are obsessed with the wrong places; people and situations. In the Body of believers we are commanded to love one another( John 13:34) and of course "they shall know we are Christians by our love (next verse John 13:35). The attributes of love are found in 1 Cor. 13. Our affections need to be grounded there in the fellowship of the saints and our own relationship with the Lord. There are some like myself that I know who have abstained from television for a number of years now. I am living with my parents so watch it sometimes but it is hard to decide when to walk away. Hopefully; we can have a healthy relationship with our cell phone as well as the amount of time on social media or even watching the news. There is much to be avoided with the fear today at epidemic levels; and of course "true love casts out fear." ( 1 John 4:17-18). It is more than for us but for our WITNESS that we avoid having our minds filled with distractions. People will see in our eyes and countenance that we are anchored in Him as Hebrews 6:19 states. We don't need to tell people so much how committed we are they can tell; and let their love or hate for us be dictated by our chastity; and reverence of the Lord Jesus as our Savior and Master.
We are; of course "unworthy servants" ( Luke 17:7-10) along with friends of God ( John 15:15). A healthy balance is good to ponder this upcoming New Year
Diary (cont). This diary of course like anything else is our own evaluation. Perhaps an accountability partner can also be there to guide us; and a written record on their part or any specific ideas as to how we are or aren't progressing may be helpful to us. May be a good idea for BFF's....
4. Keeping things in eternal perspective. "All my tears" may say it best as the lyrics to the song go. Revelation promises that He will "wipe away every tear" ( Rev. 21:4). This isn't completed until the end of the Millennium and beginning of the new heaven and earth after the Great White Throne Judgment where many will sadly be condemned. It is only then that death will finally as the last enemy be removed ( 1 Cor. 15:55). It isn't just hyperbole to say that if you are of the remnant that is bearing much fruit and you are patiently enduring contention from those who say all sorts of things against you ( Matt. 5:10-12) that your reward is great and you are greatly blessed. Again; if it is your husband or father saying these things then you have difficult decisions as to how to deal with it. I am convinced that whatever course we need to take God will provide the resources and people to make it clear. There are some things we need to get away from. That subject would be a matter for another pot. Our confidence not fearing (Phillippians 1:28) threats because it is a sign of destruction for the wicked. Also; of course ultimately they can only destroy the body not the soul. ( Matt. 10:28). Overcoming such things from past hurts in your life and for those loved ones who have been violated through God's forgiveness can be needed to avoid a root of bitterness in our hearts ( Eph. 4:21). That verse may not specifically apply as it seems to be missing out on salvific grace; but it could affect how your "enemy" reacts to the Gospel message if YOU have harbored bitterness.
5. Unconditional love. Agape love of course is the penultimate aspiration.
So my conclusion is..to ask God for patience or chastisement...that can be left to everyone in their prayer closet.
Further thought here is how to process our "sanctification" so that we may learn from what God is teaching us in the process in real time. Here are some suggestions...
1. Preparing the journey with prayer. Prayer (thankfully) for such matters as asking God to discipline us can also be laden with requests for Him to bring those individuals in our life to guide us in wisdom and discipleship. We should be "proactive" in some sense by always having a mindset of prayer as well as "meditating on the Word day and night". ( Joshua 1:8). We can trust God's Word to give us counsel; wisdom and strength as well as words to respond to others. This; of course does NOT mean we hurl verses in our own anger about God destroying the wicked when we are annoyed with someone.
2. Learning from our mistakes. There needs to be both an avoidance of thinking we can predict the outcome of things based on our human wisdom of similar situations in the past. There are certainly cases where we can see manipulative individuals who are set on a course of action to constantly resist us. There are clearly some situations such as husbands and wives and their relationship that cannot be avoided. There are other cases where I have found it is prudent to be prepared for detours needed to avoid unnecessary time with those the enemy clearly has placed in our path as distractions. I am saying in general here that true guilt due to our own sin is different than imposed guilt of narcissists. In such cases our confidence needs to be in the Lord where the foundation is and the anchor of our souls ( Heb. 6:19). This is key to stand as a bulwark against the fiery darts of the enemy ( Eph. 6:16).
3. Working on a diary. There is some merit to keeping a written record for future use to indicate how we have progressed (or not) in our growth in the Lord.
Resolutions; it is typically pointed out usually start with a wish to abstain from something (usually tied in with the gluttony around the holidays); or perhaps a promise to ourselves that we will behave ourselves in some capacity for the coming year. The overwhelming result; of course is usually a few weeks of concerted effort followed by a slow decline and eventual collapse a few months later. Behavior modification; of course can be done in a worldly sense; complete with advice from "gurus"; hypnosis or other "positive thinking" mantras. It seems in terms of "vows" that men make; unless it is to God Himself or in something such as marriage that is God's established covenant; we are to let our "yea be yea" or "nay be nay"; anything else we swear is sin. ( Matthew 5:37). It is pointless; of course to say that we will wait another 48 hours from today to avoid any obvious sin whether in commission or omission until the New Year; then have no plans to continue it in 2024. If one is a new believer; of course repentance and turning away permanently may just happen to start around New Years Day. We can also rededicate our lives to the Lord from now on.
If we avoid making resolutions; there is another more scripturally based challenge that I will bring up. I should give a caveat..it is even harder to do at least initially. That would be asking God to "chastise us" as He sees fit; or alternatively; to ask Him to grant us patience. These are scriptural requests ( Heb. 12:6) and I am confident that HE WILL ANSWER it. I don't know how not to shout here in caps over this because of the quote from Hebrews He chastises all that means ALL He loves!
I'm afraid to pray it most of the time; no point pretending. I think I'm learning to appreciate these things; as well as the trying people in my life. It is unlikely that I would pray for anyone else either in that light lest I be the test in others lives and they blame me!
Next, I will speak about "good" and "perfect" in relation to God and to creation.
You have said along the lines that to be good means to be perfect and complete without fault (in an ontological sense). And
you said that everything is either perfect of flawed.
God alone is completely perfect and flawless, without any need to improve or become more good and holy. He cannot do evil nor
conceive it in His Being. He is pure from all taint of corruption and eternally remains so. He does not change to become more or
less holy, ever. But God being this way ontologically does not necessitate that everything He creates is ontologically this way or
also or else they, too, would be God or a separate god. Christianity never affirms this about what He created.
You have said along the lines that for Adam and Eve to be sinless they would necessarily be eternally holy like God is. But I say
that God created Adam and Eve sinless, in a pure state that could change by their own volition. God had a purpose for creating
them this way and His purpose is truly perfect, holy, and eternal. I read what Elliux2 wrote about the definitions of "good" from the KJV dictionary and I will say that the 3rd definition that "good" means "complete and sufficiently perfect in its kind and having the physical qualities best adapted to its design and use..." best fits my view of how God created the universe to be. It is complete, nothing more needs to be added. Each part and object of creation is sufficiently perfect in its kind (rock, force, angel, human) and use (or purpose). All that God created is made of substance that does not possess any "spark of divinity" or essence of God in itself. Rocks, water, etc. are created as inanimate objects, without life. Angels, humans, animals are created as animate objects (alive) God does not "birth" His Spirit in any of His creation. He abides by His Spirin the souls and spirits he created in angels and humans who follow Him.
May we always show that we care about our fellow human beings. And walk in the love of God.
Thanks for this year, Richard H Priday. I wich u and yours good health and a blessed new year In Jesus name, love you in Christ, Amen
Romans 7:19
"For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do."
It is worth mentioning that I have strong same-sex attraction, which I am not really ashamed of, just extremely worried that I will not go to Heaven, assuming there is one, because of it. If I could turn any alleged sin into a non-sin, it would absolutely be gayness. Was this chapter a sign, do you think? What exactly could this exact passage mean in my scenerio? Do you have any advice?
Thank you for sharing. I will continue to think on what you've said. Much appreciation.
Peace
GOD IS
Thank you. Your thoughtful replies whether short or lengthy, are so much appreciated, and not in vain. I think you'll agree, we
have no clue, in general, as to what degree, and when our thoughts and words have on others, whether positive or sadly, negative, yet we understand they will. Yet, I don't want to speak for you.
It is my intention to continue thinking on what you and Richard thoughtfully wrote. Whether I agree or not really doesn't matter as much as having a respectful, loving attitude towards everyone. In retrospect, I realize I have been a bit emphatic at times, with my words, which maybe seemed disrespectful to some. Damn ego. My apologies to anyone who's perceived that I've disrespected them, and would ask, for their own benefit as well as mine, to forgive me.
Peace GiGi
GOD IS
ALL of these things bring glory to God; and He is praised forever. In eternity; of course we will begin to live as we were designed to in a sinless state learning evermore from God and enjoying the splendors of heaven.
Sin therefore for God's elect is never "stronger" as it were than God's mercy and forgiveness. There are simply two realities; one for those saved and one for the lost. It appears as the wheat and tares there is no difference as we all live in the world but are not OF it.
As always; I feel remiss if I don't make an extremely strong push here towards conveying jut how real the enemy is and his stranglehold over this world. But as with the way we approach God; the book of Jude makes it clear we dare not make a "railing accusation" ( Jude 1:9). We appeal to the Lord or we stand vulnerable to being squashed like a bug.
Understanding how sin; and evil men facilitate God's plans are beyond our understanding; nonetheless Pilate put up the INRI on the cross stating who Christ was (King of the Jews). The Lord has the last laugh (and as I stated before is the only one in destruction of the wicked to be able to do that without sinning).
Again probably this brings more questions. I hope you get some joy as 2023 comes in.
Agape; Rich P
I will let you find the verse where Jesus was "amazed" at the faith of the Centurion. There are other verses where God is hot with anger as well as being called a "jealous" God. And perhaps that explains why only God can hate with a "perfect" hatred; for anyone else to try it would be sin.
Perhaps the idea in the verse that "no suitable" mate was found was more of an exercise for Adam to discover this truth about the animal Kingdom. In any event; man uniquely came from Adam's rib as stated in the scripture. Eve means this; as "woman" came out of "man". This brings a soul connection to men which the animal kingdom wouldn't possess; hence rules exist for us as to being equally yoked; nonetheless a marriage vow before God is still classified as a marriage. To have the Lord in the relationship is the only way that our spirit in that sense ( Romans 8:16) as to unity among men; the marriage however is still seen as one in soul. That's the best I can see it. It also explains why we can't just mess around before marriage either as that involves only a fleshly union; and I am convinced any soul connection as it were is in reality a demonic deception. d
It is also to remember that Lucifer also was created perfect in his ways ( Isaiah 14). Pride brought him down; as it did with man.
I hope you will consider the fact tht God only draws those the Father has given Him. ( John 6:44). Thus; our eternal fate was already decided among the Godhead before time began; He will not lose anyone of His sheep. I'm not sure a long Calvanist dissertation will be helpful here but I thought searching the scripture as with all things would.
Evil within the garden is an interesting point. We can look to Rev. 12:10 and see it appears until the midpoint of the Trib those in heaven are accused; they are certainly blasphemed from earth ( Rev. 13:6). So good can evil can be nearby.
I tried to start responding and as always my extra tabs wiped out the page. Anyway; it is somewhat heartening that you seem to know the Lord.
Starting off here; I'm too lazy to once again get all the exact quotes. Roughly speaking I was going to say that in Psalm 139 we are said to be "fearfully and wonderfully made." In Ecclesiastes 7:29 the "uprightness" of man is mentioned but that he goes astray for "many inventions". A big point many make is about the age of accountability. I can't see how anyone is lost forever in condemnation without understanding some basic things about sin and punishment which probably begins with child rearing. David's quote about the child that died seems to indicate a certainty that he will see him someday but not until he dies ( 2 Samuel 12:23).
Sin; death and decay (as brought up through the concept of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics) really can't be explained other than it happens; much like concepts like gravity. I would say simply the spirit of a man lives foreever; whether in restored (saved) condition or lost. Man would have lived forever in an "innocent" state if he hadn't sinned. This would not have enabled him to rule and reign with Christ as we can now; nor fulfilled His plans for free agents in the spirit realm to choose to rebel or remain with Him in their "proper estate". ( Jude 1:6). Whether we understand sin as we get older we see more and more of the effects. God has designed this world to unwind; and eventually be destroyed and replaced with a new heaven and earth. Things in the sovereignty of God ( Deut. 29:29) remain there at least this side of eternity. Proverbs 25:2 states that kings have some things revealed which may suggest as "kings and priests" in Him some understanding comes. We are not God who knows all.
I can appreciate the time taken in your reply. Thank you. I continue to pray for you.
I just read a recent post reminding someone about the guidelines (2nd half of first paragraph). I bring this up, as I'm concerned, and realize my comments may appear to others as an attack on Christianity, or close to it.
My introduction to Christianity began as a young child, having a devout Christian mother. Since then, I was fairly consistent in my involvement in church, until around fifteen years ago. I continued though, reading and meditating on the Bible and God. I can't remember the last time, even on a bad day, when I haven't thought about God. I'm certain you and millions others can relate.
I'm also certain that if I respond to you in complete honesty, not withholding comments and questions important to me,which I would pray and hope would lead towards better understanding, I would probably be banned. I don't want that. Yet, although I wish this was not the case, I know myself well enough, it would upset me to upset you and others. I don't want that; for any of us participating. I perceive your integrity, thus I understand you would not want to have a dialogue with someone who could not speak freely while you could. Please understand, I don't feel slighted or hold any bitterness. It's just the way it is.
I'm not saying that I won't participate any more. I'm not sure; I try not to make these decisions on my own. If I do, I'll need to lean NOT on my own discernment.
Peace
GOD IS
The theme of being "poor and needy" and making haste for help is seen repeated once again as we saw in Psalm 69 and most of the preceding Psalms in the 2nd section of the book. Verse 18 makes it pretty clear that he was indeed aged with the gray hairs mentioned and a point blank statement of being old. He desired to remain until he reached "this generation" and power to every one that is to come. This would be accomplished of course through giving Solomon quite a financial and planning "jumpstart" to the opulent Temple being built with a modern day value of materials easily in the billions. I have seen estimates in the HUNDREDS of billions. How sad that Solomon's downfall basically ended the Kingdom of Israel and let to a divided state which has to date never reached it's fullest glory but will in the Millennium.
We notice in verse 17 David recognized being taught from an early age. Solomon also had proper upbringing but didn't learn until his life was nearly over the folly that his life became following foreign women and hoarding possessions despite God's warnings to him. Such is the message of Ecclesiastes. May we all learn so as not to embrace madness and folly to achieve understanding!
Praise and proper worship (verse 22-24) also were remembered by David. He was a man after God's own heart ( 1 Samuel 13:14) which Saul didn't like to acknowledge. This was despite his grevious sin with Bathsheeba that the Lord ultimately used for His purposes but cost him the privilege of building the Temple himself. ( 1 Chron. 22:18 and elsewhere).
Verses 3 through 8 precede verse 9 which was quoted in the New Testament ( John 2:17) when Jesus overturned the moneychangers tables (done at least one more time at the end of His ministry). They all could be prophetic about Christ as well; except for verse 5 talking of David's foolishness and sin; as well as the end of verse 4 where he was sid to "restore that which was not taken away" which would seem to indicate he had to give compensation to those accusing him of stealing stuff that he never took from them.
Verses 10 through 12 involving sackcloth and fasting also would apply to David alone (Christ's fasting wasn't for any sins of his own but as an example of how to be more fully empowered with the Spirit to cast out particular demons ( Matt. 17:21). When we go further from verses 13 through 19 once again the themes of mire and deep waters are mentioned; and these passages once again are rather interchangeable between David and Christ's trials.
Verses 20-22 once again are clearly prophetic; Christ's heart literally was boken (v. 20); verse 21 is quoted in Matt. 27:33-34; and verse 22 through 28 are likely describing Judas Iscariot as seen more clearly in Psalm 109 and several other passages. I would say that verse 28 is describing the book of ALL living souls; not the Book of Life. Finally; verse 29 also ties in with Psalm 109 in describing Christ at the crucifixion.
The rest of this Psalm gives hopefulness with again a Millennial type Kingdom to come. Sacrifice isn't needed of animals (v. 31) but I suspect it is a ceremonial and memorial thing.
Prisoners will be released (v. 33); and the land will have it's covenant borders and the world blessed (v. 34-end). The Lord will be praised throughout the earth. Amen.
Promise... Zech 12:10 and Zech 13:7...Thats y he always refered to himself as the son of man...B/C of his death mankind will bring forth fruit unto God.. Romans 7:4...This is the New Covenant in my blood drink ye all of it... In Adam we all die but in Christ we will all live...If i be lifted up i will draw ALL MEN UNTO ME....OK
So, not only in the Gospel of John, but also in this his first epistle, we read of the Holy Spirit's witness & involvement; which witness could not be disputed, unlike some in John's day who were trying to dispute the truth of Jesus' Person & Work. In 1 John 5:6, the Spirit of Truth bore witness to Jesus' start & completion of His Work. In 1 John 5:7, we read of the Triune God bearing record in Heaven, and then in verse 8 (on Earth), three bear witness to Jesus' Mission.
We do well to "receive the witness of men" & we are likely to be convinced. But "the witness of God is greater" ( 1 John 5:9), which must give us no room for any doubt & a certainty that all that Jesus has accomplished for us is fully accepted by those to whom the Spirit of God has been given.
In reference to 1 John 1:8-10: one aspect of gnostic teaching was that God was not entirely perfect (pure); that both good & evil existed within Him. Not only is this belief reprehensible, it also led to diminishing any sin (even the principle of sin) as of no consequence, since God remains unconcerned about it. But John stated that "God is light, and in him is no darkness at all" ( 1 John 1:5): God is altogether holy/pure - no darkness or evil can be found in Him. Therefore, if it be said that "we have no sin (i.e. the principle of the existing sin nature in us), we are simply deceiving ourselves". We ought not to believe those false teachers who deny this & by extension, "that we have not sinned (i.e. experientially)" (v10). But John is reminding them that we are sinners by nature & performance, but if we recognize sin for what it is & come to God in confession of it, 'he is faithful and just to forgive us & cleanse us entirely' (v9).
Even another striking false teaching is found in 1 John 4:2,3: the denial of the deity of Christ as the gnostic (docetic) teaching was that deity could never unite with anything material. Their claim that this Jesus was just a man endowed with a special anointing; or another teaching: He didn't have a body & was just a spirit, hence He could not die on the Cross; and probably many others beliefs that would take away from the demonstration of God's Love in the sacrifice of His Son.
5. Love: Agape-Unconditional. We can't find such a resource in our tool box in our own strength. Go ahead and try and let me know how it works for you. People have; sadly referred to God's love as "reckless"; I will leave out the particular artist that comes to mind with such language...
We are in a feckless world; and the fact that the love of many will grow cold ( Matt. 24:12) certainly extends into the professing church as we see the warning to the Ephesian church ( Rev. 2:4). It is good to be looking for love in the RIGHT places; but sadly many are obsessed with the wrong places; people and situations. In the Body of believers we are commanded to love one another( John 13:34) and of course "they shall know we are Christians by our love (next verse John 13:35). The attributes of love are found in 1 Cor. 13. Our affections need to be grounded there in the fellowship of the saints and our own relationship with the Lord. There are some like myself that I know who have abstained from television for a number of years now. I am living with my parents so watch it sometimes but it is hard to decide when to walk away. Hopefully; we can have a healthy relationship with our cell phone as well as the amount of time on social media or even watching the news. There is much to be avoided with the fear today at epidemic levels; and of course "true love casts out fear." ( 1 John 4:17-18). It is more than for us but for our WITNESS that we avoid having our minds filled with distractions. People will see in our eyes and countenance that we are anchored in Him as Hebrews 6:19 states. We don't need to tell people so much how committed we are they can tell; and let their love or hate for us be dictated by our chastity; and reverence of the Lord Jesus as our Savior and Master.
We are; of course "unworthy servants" ( Luke 17:7-10) along with friends of God ( John 15:15). A healthy balance is good to ponder this upcoming New Year
AMEN
Diary (cont). This diary of course like anything else is our own evaluation. Perhaps an accountability partner can also be there to guide us; and a written record on their part or any specific ideas as to how we are or aren't progressing may be helpful to us. May be a good idea for BFF's....
4. Keeping things in eternal perspective. "All my tears" may say it best as the lyrics to the song go. Revelation promises that He will "wipe away every tear" ( Rev. 21:4). This isn't completed until the end of the Millennium and beginning of the new heaven and earth after the Great White Throne Judgment where many will sadly be condemned. It is only then that death will finally as the last enemy be removed ( 1 Cor. 15:55). It isn't just hyperbole to say that if you are of the remnant that is bearing much fruit and you are patiently enduring contention from those who say all sorts of things against you ( Matt. 5:10-12) that your reward is great and you are greatly blessed. Again; if it is your husband or father saying these things then you have difficult decisions as to how to deal with it. I am convinced that whatever course we need to take God will provide the resources and people to make it clear. There are some things we need to get away from. That subject would be a matter for another pot. Our confidence not fearing (Phillippians 1:28) threats because it is a sign of destruction for the wicked. Also; of course ultimately they can only destroy the body not the soul. ( Matt. 10:28). Overcoming such things from past hurts in your life and for those loved ones who have been violated through God's forgiveness can be needed to avoid a root of bitterness in our hearts ( Eph. 4:21). That verse may not specifically apply as it seems to be missing out on salvific grace; but it could affect how your "enemy" reacts to the Gospel message if YOU have harbored bitterness.
5. Unconditional love. Agape love of course is the penultimate aspiration.
So my conclusion is..to ask God for patience or chastisement...that can be left to everyone in their prayer closet.
Further thought here is how to process our "sanctification" so that we may learn from what God is teaching us in the process in real time. Here are some suggestions...
1. Preparing the journey with prayer. Prayer (thankfully) for such matters as asking God to discipline us can also be laden with requests for Him to bring those individuals in our life to guide us in wisdom and discipleship. We should be "proactive" in some sense by always having a mindset of prayer as well as "meditating on the Word day and night". ( Joshua 1:8). We can trust God's Word to give us counsel; wisdom and strength as well as words to respond to others. This; of course does NOT mean we hurl verses in our own anger about God destroying the wicked when we are annoyed with someone.
2. Learning from our mistakes. There needs to be both an avoidance of thinking we can predict the outcome of things based on our human wisdom of similar situations in the past. There are certainly cases where we can see manipulative individuals who are set on a course of action to constantly resist us. There are clearly some situations such as husbands and wives and their relationship that cannot be avoided. There are other cases where I have found it is prudent to be prepared for detours needed to avoid unnecessary time with those the enemy clearly has placed in our path as distractions. I am saying in general here that true guilt due to our own sin is different than imposed guilt of narcissists. In such cases our confidence needs to be in the Lord where the foundation is and the anchor of our souls ( Heb. 6:19). This is key to stand as a bulwark against the fiery darts of the enemy ( Eph. 6:16).
3. Working on a diary. There is some merit to keeping a written record for future use to indicate how we have progressed (or not) in our growth in the Lord.
Resolutions; it is typically pointed out usually start with a wish to abstain from something (usually tied in with the gluttony around the holidays); or perhaps a promise to ourselves that we will behave ourselves in some capacity for the coming year. The overwhelming result; of course is usually a few weeks of concerted effort followed by a slow decline and eventual collapse a few months later. Behavior modification; of course can be done in a worldly sense; complete with advice from "gurus"; hypnosis or other "positive thinking" mantras. It seems in terms of "vows" that men make; unless it is to God Himself or in something such as marriage that is God's established covenant; we are to let our "yea be yea" or "nay be nay"; anything else we swear is sin. ( Matthew 5:37). It is pointless; of course to say that we will wait another 48 hours from today to avoid any obvious sin whether in commission or omission until the New Year; then have no plans to continue it in 2024. If one is a new believer; of course repentance and turning away permanently may just happen to start around New Years Day. We can also rededicate our lives to the Lord from now on.
If we avoid making resolutions; there is another more scripturally based challenge that I will bring up. I should give a caveat..it is even harder to do at least initially. That would be asking God to "chastise us" as He sees fit; or alternatively; to ask Him to grant us patience. These are scriptural requests ( Heb. 12:6) and I am confident that HE WILL ANSWER it. I don't know how not to shout here in caps over this because of the quote from Hebrews He chastises all that means ALL He loves!
I'm afraid to pray it most of the time; no point pretending. I think I'm learning to appreciate these things; as well as the trying people in my life. It is unlikely that I would pray for anyone else either in that light lest I be the test in others lives and they blame me!
Part 6 In conclusion,
So there exists the one true God alone and unique from all creation. He is not a part of creation, nor is creation a part of Him.
He IS able and did create everything that exists outside of His essential Being and none of these created things are like Him. He
repeatedly says that there is no one like Him, none can come close to comparison to Him in being, character, eternity,
infiniteness, sovereignty, omniscience, omnipresence, omnipotence, majesty, glory, or essence. He abides in inapproachable
light. In order for any being to know Him, He must make Himself known to them, whether angels or humans. He always must
condescend to make Himself known and avail Himself in and to creation, whether in heaven or on earth or anywhere in the
universe. God is SO GREAT, we cannot fathom what He is like in totality. He has revealed to us what is necessary for us to know
to be redeemed so that we can then be glorified with Jesus in heaven. This state is the end (both final and aim) of man's
creation. The way Adam and Eve were created before the fall was not the end state of mankind. It was a prelude to what God
had always wanted man to become through Christ. A people bought by His Son through the sacrifice of Calvary, forgiven of their
sin, cleansed from all unrighteousness, made holy by Christ's righteousness, to be presented to Christ as His uncorrupted,
immortal eternal bride in the resurrection to the glory of God.
One Eighty, you have posed some thought provoking ideas in your posts to Richard and I, which I appreciate. I believe you bring
these up because you want to deepen your understanding on these topics. I have endeavored to "give you what I got", so to
speak. I hope my thoughts are helpful to you and drive you to further study to see if what I say is indeed correct or not.
*Just a note: Ontological means that which pertains to the essential nature of a being. "What" one is.
Part 5
We need to make a distinction from using the word "flesh" to denote biological flesh (our body, bones, blood, tissues, organs,
etc.), "flesh" meaning mortal mankind in general, and "flesh" meaning our sinful nature. When Adam and Eve were created all
of these forms of flesh were created good, without corruption. Man was made of biological materials, but also have spiritual and
soulful components which was uncorrupted, too. So, Scripture shows us that humans can be both fleshly and spiritual and be
good, but this was only before the fall of Adam and Eve. Angels do not have a fleshly biological nature like us. They are only
spiritual beings, but can be corrupted, as Satan and the fallen angels show us clearly. So, your deduction that Mankind needs to
be either fleshly or spiritual and not both is incorrect.
You also stated along the lines that "shouldn't anything that comes from God be exactly like Him when it comes to character,
Who or What God Is?" I will definitely say "no" to that query, because rocks, planets, energy are not exactly like God, nor are
angels and humans and animals created exactly like God. Even we can tell that animals, humans and angels are not exactly the
same either. God intended to make a vast innumerably diverse creation that was not exactly like Him. he never intended to
replicate Himself, because He cannot do that. It is impossible for God to create any creature exactly like Himself because He was
never created. The fact that this newly created creature was created by God shows that the two are not exactly similar to one
another. And if it was possible, then God would have created something beside Himself that was God and these beings could
then go on and create others like themselves leaving creation with an infinite number of gods. The Bible clearly states that God
is the only God that exists and none came before Him and none will be made after Him. ( Isaiah 47:8).
Part 5
Adam and Eve were created "good" in every way that a creature can be created. God deemed that they would be given free
agency as He also gave to angels with the possibility to be corrupted. He knew this was the best way for Himself to be glorified in
creation. God knew that this fee agency gave angels and humans the ability to will to follow God in faithful obedience or not. He
also knew that Satan, the fallen angels, Adam, Eve, and all of mankind would not do so even before He created them. In His
divine wisdom, God created these beings this way to display His glory through His interactions with them. We do not know His
divine wisdom in this because He did not reveal it all to mankind. We just have to believe that the way God created angels and
humans is the best, most complete and perfect way for God to have done so. It does not make God unholy to create beings that
can be corrupted by evil they themselves create. Nor does it make evil or sin more powerful than God because it corrupts these
beings. Many people think of evil and sin as actual entities; things created, which would make God the creator of evil. But I
think this is a false view of evil and sin. Evil and sin are things that creatures create in what they think, devise, and do. they do
not have lives of their own outside of the creature who generates it. That is why Christian thought says that mankind is corrupt
in all of his being, having made himself this way by volitional choice. So, angels and humans are the source of sin and evil. This
does not exclude evil entities such as the devil, demons, powers, principalities and authorities in high places. But the evil, itself
does not exist on its own independently of the entity doing the evil.
With this being said, One Eighty, you asked how can humans be fleshly and spirit at once, thinking that it is impossible. But
Scripture does speak otherwise.
Part 4
When God created angels and man, He made them alive by His power to create life, but this is not the every-existing, limitless
life of God. It is life that is limited and dependent upon God's power to continue this existence. It is creaturely life, not divine
life. It is subject to time and space and change. These are not aspects of Divine Life.
When God created animals, he gave them a fleshly life without a spirit and soul. Animals are strictly flesh and bones and
material, although they have a mind and will and instincts and the ability to learn and grow. They are mortal.
Humans have a fleshly, mortal body with a mind, along with a soul, and a spirit. You stated that "flesh gives birth to flesh" and
"spirit gives birth to spirit", most likely referencing 1 Corinthians 15 in which it says that all flesh is not the same (vs. 39)
speaking of human flesh, animal, bird, and fish. And Paul also says that there are celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies. Humans
have terrestrial bodies made of matter (dust), angels have celestial bodies, made of spiritual substance (we don't know about
that) and Christ's resurrected body is another type of body, totally unique from all others, but like what humans will have in the
resurrection (without the divinity).Our terrestrial bodies will be changed to be like His resurrected celestial human body,
composed of incorruptible, immortal substance. (Jesus had flesh and bones when He appeared to Thomas). So, in this chapter
Paul is contrasting the natural Adamic body we all possess first to the Christlike celestial/spiritual body that Jesus possesses
after He died and was resurrected. I don't think that this chapter speaks to your idea that we are either fleshly or spirt, not
both.
In this earthly life, as with Adam, we have a natural body, a soul, and spirit. Adam's personhood was (soul, spirit, and body)
were created good, according to the plan and purpose of God's perfect will.
Part 3
Next, I will speak about "good" and "perfect" in relation to God and to creation.
You have said along the lines that to be good means to be perfect and complete without fault (in an ontological sense). And
you said that everything is either perfect of flawed.
God alone is completely perfect and flawless, without any need to improve or become more good and holy. He cannot do evil nor
conceive it in His Being. He is pure from all taint of corruption and eternally remains so. He does not change to become more or
less holy, ever. But God being this way ontologically does not necessitate that everything He creates is ontologically this way or
also or else they, too, would be God or a separate god. Christianity never affirms this about what He created.
You have said along the lines that for Adam and Eve to be sinless they would necessarily be eternally holy like God is. But I say
that God created Adam and Eve sinless, in a pure state that could change by their own volition. God had a purpose for creating
them this way and His purpose is truly perfect, holy, and eternal. I read what Elliux2 wrote about the definitions of "good" from the KJV dictionary and I will say that the 3rd definition that "good" means "complete and sufficiently perfect in its kind and having the physical qualities best adapted to its design and use..." best fits my view of how God created the universe to be. It is complete, nothing more needs to be added. Each part and object of creation is sufficiently perfect in its kind (rock, force, angel, human) and use (or purpose). All that God created is made of substance that does not possess any "spark of divinity" or essence of God in itself. Rocks, water, etc. are created as inanimate objects, without life. Angels, humans, animals are created as animate objects (alive) God does not "birth" His Spirit in any of His creation. He abides by His Spirin the souls and spirits he created in angels and humans who follow Him.