Bible Questions & Discussion PAGE 27

  • Richard H Priday - In Reply - 1 month ago
    Somewhere on this site a year or two ago I have some detailed analysis of this subject; specifically I went through the book of John as well in terms of Predestination.

    I would say that book has enough clear evidence of the calling being only for those God has selected to have Christ reveal Himself to them that not much more needs to be said. The book of Romans has a lot of stuff as well which I have done studies of in the past but it is throughout the Bible. The "TULIP" acronym was never expounded on by Calvin per se; and it appears that even he may have had some issues near the end of his life about limited atonement; probably the stickiest point in the whole bunch.

    First off as to Calvin himself; his attitudes in killing Silvanus for not being a Trinitarian (and also for NOT supporting infant baptism) certainly makes us call into question his faith as it states in first John "he who hates his brother is a murderer" and doesn't have eternal lilfe. For the record I am against infant baptism ironically a carry on from Catholicism that the Orthodox Presbyterian church today still holds onto with some other denominations. Martin Luthor was a heavy drinker and Hitler himself used some of his rantings against the Jews to his advantage in gaining church support of his cause (before they were persecuted themselves).

    Despite these less than ideal character issues the concepts brought up in the "5 Points" have sufficient scriptural warrant for the most part in my opinion. Again; I have argued with some of my "brethren" as you put it that someone can believe all 5 points and not be saved (why they'd want to is another issue). They didn't like me for saying that; but neither did people believe my former pastor was saved since he considered himself to be a "4 and a half point Calvanist" with his issues with limited atonement.

    Other issues are the terminology of each tenent. Maybe I'll include that in part two.
  • Richard H Priday - In Reply - 1 month ago
    In looking at the Orthodox church it seems from what I am seeing it is only the Eastern Orthodox (however defined) that believes this; while others believe Christ always existed. Or perhaps it is the idea that somehow the Spirit and Christ existed within God somehow and was separated?

    I looked at that term "deified" or something to that affect. I would define the new body as glorified but not God-that is disturbing.

    All the power we will have in our glorified body it is due to God's provision; and all the authority in which we rule and reign with Christ. The other weird thing is how we are supposedly in our material bodies somehow tied in some mysterious way to the creation like it is still happening or something if I get that right.

    As for me; I didn't understand how my ex wife was able to marry someone in that church if they knew she was divorced from someone. I thought they were against that.
  • Giannis - In Reply - 1 month ago
    Ronald, I am sorry I called you Richard. GBU
  • Giannis - In Reply - 1 month ago
    Hello Ronald

    Thanks for your reply to my comment.

    I will keep it short since we have had those discussions before and we know what each one of us believe.

    I noticed that you believe that when a human person receives the fullness of the Spirit somehow they aquire divine characteristics as if though they are Gods themselves. ie omnipresence, speak all languages, hear millions of people simultaneously. Well there are some churches that actually believe that we will become sort of Gods. The Ortodox church is one of those.

    Also Jema (why is she gone? I actually liked very much her encouraging comments,I will miss them) in her reply to me said that we will become something sort of Gods when we will be dressed up with our spiritual body.

    Although there isn't any revelation from God about the state we will be in Heaven, I still find it very hard to believe that. If that was true then even angels would had been sort of Gods. Well I don't know Richard so I am going to put my hand on my mouth and keep silent. GBU
  • Jesusgirl87 - 1 month ago
    I would love to hear different views on Calvinism from the Brethren. Thank you...
  • Bennymkje - 1 month ago
    Re.21:17 "Single Measurement" (2 of 2)

    With regards to the tags we shall examine the significance of 5. 'The twelve apostles of the Lamb as well as every saint redeemed from the earth are considered as one with the Lamb. In the OT the Law of Moses stipulated, "If a man shall steal an ox, or a sheep, and kill it, or sell it; he shall restore five oxen for an ox, and four sheep for a sheep."(Ex.22:1). The rationale is that beast is man's livelihood. So man and ox is counted as one. The same rule applies to those who have conformed to the death of Christ in order to win Christ. "That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;" (Ph.3:10)

    In the divine Will the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world was an emblem. The Lamb of God opened the way for many sons of God to be counted as one with the Lamb, so the throne of God and of the Lamb establish the rationale for Jubilee year on earth as well as in heaven. The gospel in multiples of 12 created the scale which instruct how we should walk on the earth. Without abiding in Christ and doing the perfect will of God, Many are called but few are chosen. Be not deceived by diverse doctrine of men.

    "And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal."(21:16)
  • Bennymkje - 1 month ago
    Re.21:17 "Single measurement" (1 of 2)

    "And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel."

    Firstly it is the angel who is a fellow servant who is measuring.It is faith which is signified by the golden reed. "And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb./ And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof." (vv.14-15). The 12 apostles of the Lamb are the same on earth were associates of Jesus Christ. This is New Jerusalem, the throne of which is now the Throne of God and of the Lamb.(Re.22:1)

    John was in the spirit so he is being given a preview of things which must shortly come to pass, while the guid, an angel is nimself in the world of the Spirit. "And I John saw these things, and heard them.... I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things./Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book." (22:8-9). Saints redeemed from the earth are interchangeable because new earth knows no John or Andrew but is under the generic name an angel.

    Jesus Christ is the Man component in the Fellowship of God with Man. So the single yardstick the angel uses is according to the measure of a man, that is of the angel. The heresy of individualism, American brand of bold initiatives upon which megachurches and the corporate model of Evangelicalism relies is not from God. The rule of God applies. "And when they did mete it with an omer, he that gathered much had nothing over, and he that gathered little had no lack; they gathered every man according to his eating."(Ex.16:18). Abiding in Christ what is gathered in the world of Spirit follows the same rule.

    The measuring reed is faith and the Gospel is one, within which 'the lame takes the prey.'
  • Alexis Mitchell 2 - In Reply - 1 month ago
    I hope things improve soon for you . I know from reading the Bible that God expects us to take care of each other and not to turn our eyes away when we see some one in need of help . I hope that God gives you all that you need even if people don't .
  • Alexis Mitchell 2 - In Reply - 1 month ago
    It does help . I thought that myself about the skins that God made for them . If He made them then do you think that He killed the lamb ? This all seems to point toward the future when God allows His Son to be killed to cover our sins . The Jews had to take the lamb into their homes a bit like a pet I think , they might have grown attached to it if there were children in the house . They might have been sad to kill it . So many things happen more than once in the Bible but just in slightly different ways .
  • GiGi - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Suzy, I will keep your Mom in my prayers.
  • Bennymkje - 2 months ago
    Dan.12:11-12 "New Jerusalem" (2 of 2)

    Recap: The Spirit placed the tag 3, which is a Command number so the Son in heaven is Three. The Word become flesh is Four. 1260 refers to the earthly ministry of Jesus.

    Daniel's vision in Ch.12 gives us two sets of numbers 1260+30 +1290 days. 3X10 determined outpouring of the Holy Spirit to the point of rapture, which concerns the first fruits, the church. Multiples of 10 gives us the abiding life in Christ so every saint redeemed from the earth is led by the Spirit. "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God."Ro.8:14)

    second set 1335 is made up 1260+75

    Here we have 50 that refers to the *Jubilie.

    What does the Jubilee (5x10) signify? The land belongs to God and the glory of the land is in harmony with the glory of the Son as heir to all things. With the jubilee year the land is to be left fallow. This rest signified rest that is promised to saints redeemed from earth. Before Jubilee year isproclaimed we have an interval which is given here. "And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled."(Re.20:8)

    *What does the Jubilee (5x10) signify? The land belongs to God and the glory of the land is in harmony with the glory of the Son as heir to all things. With the jubilee year the land is to be left fallow. This rest signified rest that is promised to saints redeemed from earth.

    The earth abides forever and New Jerusalem comes up free from any claim from with regards to their inheritance. New Jerusalem is for the heirs of promise.
  • GiGi - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Sarah, So sorry to hear your Mom is sick. I will be happy to pray for her.

    Dear heavenly Father, we come tonight in the name of Jesus asking for You to bring swift healing for Sarah's dear Mom. Cause her to begin to feel better right now and take away the pain and symptoms that are bothering her so. We ask that You do a great healing work in her body and that she will receive comfort, peace and rest while her body heals and is strengthened by Your amazing power, grace, and . Amen
  • GiGi - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Hi Richard, Praying for this possible new living arrangement.
  • Chris - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Page 3.

    Your second question: "If Jesus was preexisting, an immortal being, God the son. How can an immortal being die?" There are varying beliefs about Jesus' position in Heaven prior to His incarnation. I rather simply accept John 1:1-18, John 14:10,11, John 16:27,28, 1 John 5:7, that Jesus came forth from God. Did He come out as a Divine Being in the presence of God, to be made a human for the sake of death, or did God take His Own Word & give Him flesh for this very purpose? We don't have a problem of God sending out His Spirit & the Spirit's indwelling in every believer (can He even be dissected?), but to send His Word out, clothe Him in a body, unnerves many.

    "How can an immortal being die? How can God be tempted...How can God die?" God is Spirit - He is Immortal - He can never die. No one, having a spirit from God, can die - the body will perish, but who can destroy the spirit which cannot be touched by age or man's devices? But if the immortal is given a body, as Jesus received, or even as we also have to house our spirits, then the body will die but the spirit lives on. Can God take on flesh? A mystery no human can fully fathom, but truly "a body hast thou prepared me" ( Hebrews 10:5-7, taken from Psalm 40:6-8). So Jesus could be tempted & could die whilst in the body, and so in His complete identification with sinful men in need of salvation, Philippians 2:6-8 reminds us:

    "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross." "thought it not robbery" = Jesus didn't grasp onto/retain His equality with God, but 'emptied Himself' ('ekenosen'), laying aside His Glory, to become a Man, obedient to death that which was the Father's Plan.
  • Chris - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Page 2.

    'arche' = 'something that was in the beginning: a first principle; a substance or primal element; an actuating principle (as a cause). If we take the first meaning of 'something having a beginning', then your suggestion might be valid. If, as 'an actuating principal - a causation', then we read the verse as, 'These things saith the Amen.the One to cause or initiate all of God's Creation'; that Jesus Himself wasn't God's first Creation, but the cause or reason for creation, i.e. the 'He Who initiated the beginning of creation', being the 'Reason for creation's beginning'.

    'proto-tokos' = 'first-to bring forth'. Here, in Colossians 1:15,18, Jesus is seen as both the "firstborn of every creature and the firstborn from the dead". I see 'firstborn' here, not with a biological view, but in Christ's position; or else, He was certainly not the 'firstborn from the dead', as some have been brought to life from the dead prior to His Resurrection. So, it's best to read these verses as Jesus' station & rank that remains, as always, above every human being & all of creation, whether in their creation, birth or death. And as a side-note, we must be aware that the JW conveniently changes 'prototokos' to 'protokitises': from 'first to bring forth' to 'first to be created': which of course supports the idea that Jesus was a created Being.
  • Oseas - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Jesse

    You are welcome.

    GOD bless
  • Jesse - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Oseas,

    Thank you for your post to brother Carleton and myself, but I am not sure that I am understanding what you are saying here? I may have to read through this a few more times. Some things take me a little longer to figure out, sorry!
  • Oseas - 2 months ago
    There were many Jewish people in the Church of Rome,and the Apostle Paul in his universal epistle to the Church of Rome, he wrote: Romans 2:5-16:

    5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the Day of WRATH and revelation of the RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT of GOD;

    6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

    7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, ETERNAL LIFE:

    8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, INDIGNATION and WRATH,

    9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew FIRST, and also of the Gentile;

    10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew FIRST, and also to the Gentile:

    11 For there is no respect of persons with GOD

    12 For as many as have sinned WITHOUT Law(the Gentiles)shall also perish without Law: and as many as have sinned in the Law(the Jews) shall be Judged by the Law;

    13 (For not the hearers of the Law are just before GOD, but the doers of the Law shall be justified.

    14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the Law, do by nature the things contained in the Law, these, having not the Law, are a Law unto themselves:

    15 Which shew the work of the Law written in their hearts(Hallelujah!!), their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another-)

    16 In the Day when GOD shall Judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. (The Day arrived-Woe of the inhabiters of the Earth)

    The Word is GOD, self-executing
  • Jesse - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Hello Chris,

    I just read your post and wanted to say that I was just about to post a comment similar to yours but was not sure how to say what I wanted to say because it seems to be getting more and more difficult to post comments lately without someone becoming offended in some way.

    I also was a little surprised that you were asked to engage in further discussion by momsage for the same reason. Of the two topics listed (sabbath and KJB), I was following along on the KJB topic for a couple of weeks and holding back from engaging in discussion because of the comment you are probably referring to which was, and I quote: "I don't discuss in this forum anymore with anyone except two of my friends." I took that literally, and it was because of those words that I chose not to engage in discussion on that topic with momsage.

    I realize that momsage will probably read this since every post is viewable by all. That is okay. I have no hard feelings towards anyone on this forum. Besides having many brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus here, I also consider everyone here as a friend. But what I would like to know from momsage is if she is truly open for discussion with anyone else on this forum? I do agree with momsage about argumentative conversations. I do not enjoy those either. But friendly open-minded discussions should be welcomed.



    Blessings to both you and momsage. I do look forward to reading your further discussion, if the Lord leads you both in that direction!!!
  • Oseas - 2 months ago
    Mat.5:5 -Blessed are the meek:for they shall inherit the earth.

    Re.5:10 -And hast made us unto our GOD kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

    Jo.17:16&11- 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 11 And now I am no more in the world,but these are in the world,and I come to thee.Holy Father,keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me,that they may be one,as we are.

    Jo.17:6-8 & 18

    6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy Word.

    7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.

    8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

    18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

    John 17:15&24- ->24 Father,I will that they also, whom thou has given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou has given me: for thou loved me before the foundation of the world. 15 I pray not that thou should take them out of the world, but that thou should keep them from the evil.

    Re. 11:15-19

    15...The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

    16And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

    17Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

    18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead,that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets,and to the saints,and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

    19And the temple of GOD opened in heaven
  • Oseas - In Reply on Galatians 2 - 2 months ago
    Tunney

    Amen.

    Praised be our GOD and Father
  • Oseas - 2 months ago
    John 10:14-18

    14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

    15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I LAY MY LIFE DOWN for the sheep.

    16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold (the Gentiles peoples): them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

    17 Therefore doth MY FATHER LOVES ME, because I LAY DOWN MY LIFE, that I MIGHT TAKE IT AGAIN.

    18 No man taketh it from me, but I LAY IT DOWN OF MYSELF. I HAVE POWER TO LAY IT DOWN, and I HAVE POWER TO TAKE IT AGAIN. This COMMANDMENT have I received of my Father.
  • Tunney on Galatians 2 - 2 months ago
    Galatians 2:20 my life verse! Praise the LORD.

    GOD blesses and shines HIS face on all who are on this platform.

    January 28, 2024
  • Oseas - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Jesse and Carleton

    Meditation that brings you to Psalms 45,especially Psalms 45:6-7.

    Speaking of JESUS(Ps.45:6-7)-->In Hebrews 1:8, GOD the Father says unto the Son: Thy throne,O God, is for ever and ever:a sceptre of righteousness is the Sceptre of thy Kingdom.(It will LITERALLY be fulfilled from now on: Revelation 11:15 combined with 1Thessalonians 4:16, about the archangel Michael who comes first,comes before JESUS in LITERAL fulfilment of Daniel 12:1-3 and Revelation 12:7-12)

    Hebrews 1:7-And of the angels he saith: Who maketh His angels winds/spirits, and His ministers a flame of fire. (Ps.45:3-5 refer to the archangel Michael:--> 3 Gird thy sword upon thy thigh,O most mighty,with thy glory and thy majesty.

    4 And in thy majesty ride prosperously because of truth and meekness and righteousness; and thy right hand shall teach thee terrible things. (Re.19:9-And he saith unto John- Write,Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto John,These are the true sayings of GOD. 10 And I-John- fell at his feet to worship him.And he said unto me,See thou do it not:I am thy fellowservant,and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus:worship GOD:for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy)

    5Thine arrows( Revelation 6:2)are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies;whereby the people fall under thee.( Revelation 11:15)



    Re.11:16-17

    16And the four and twenty elders, which sat before GOD on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped GOD,

    17saying,We give thee thanks,O Lord GOD Almighty,which art,and wast,and art to come;because thou hast taken to thee thy great power,and hast reigned( 1Corinthians 15:24-27and51-55-Take a look)

    Re.11:18-And the nations were angry,and thy wrath is come,and the time of the dead,that they should be judged,and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets,and to the saints,and them that fear thy name, small and great;and should destroy them which destroy the earth
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Hi Alexis.

    Adam and Eve were Saved by the cross the same way all that were saved in the OT.

    I Would suggest forgiveness for Adam and Eve was granted before they were created.

    I don't believe Adam and Eve surprised God by their disobedience in the Garden.

    Christ was foreordained as the Lamb of God that take away the sins of the world "BEFORE" the foundation of the world, 1 Peter 1:18-20. Revelation 13:8.

    Jesus' death on the cross was not an after thought by God after the event of mankind falling into sin.

    God covering of Coats of skin for Adam and Eve suggest that there was a shedding of blood to cover their nakedness.

    I'm sure the fig leaves mentioned in Genesis 3:7 covered there outwardly exposed bodies but not the inward exposed nakedness guilt caused by their transgression.

    Besides, this was the work of their own hands.

    Only the blood of Christ can take away sin

    and those OT sacrifices pointed forward to Christ.

    Leviticus 17:11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life.

    God has all along been revealing the "lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world through these OT sacrifices.

    See Hebrews 9:7-14.

    I hope this helps.

    God bless.
  • Richard H Priday - 2 months ago
    Christ was given the Kingdom

    God the Father granted Christ all authority on heaven and earth which sets forth the ultimate example of how God worked to reward the perfect obedience of Christ. It also goes against Satan's offer to worship him to have such authority. ( Matthew 28:18; Matthew 4:9).

    One may question how Christ; who Himself brought all of creation into existence would have such a destiny. ( Colossians 1:16-20). In that situation; one may say that He was the Person to do the work that the Father had planned; and His agent as it were was the Spirit of God (hovering over the waters as it states in Genesis 1:2).

    We realize in this that no servant is greater than his master. ( John 15:20). We all are nothing without Him; yet He will likewise exalt the humble with positions to rule and reign with Christ in the Millennium. In some sense we can say that Christ emptied Himself so that He could be our High Priest suffering in all ways but without sin. ( Heb. 4:15). As the second Adam He was able to keep from the temptations of the devil to fall unlike Adam; as well as fulfilling the law perfectly which no man could do. ( 1 Cor. 15:45-47).

    It is hard to get our mind around these facts; that He who created all things would start from conception as a helpless babe and end as a sheep to the slaughter ( Isaiah 53:7); the Lamb of God which will forever be ascribed to His Name. Of course all of us who are saved are adopted sons; ( Ephesians 1:5) part of the eternal lineage of the rightous (as contrasted with the earth dwellers in Revelation 11:10).

    Christ is returning as conquering king. He alone trods the winepress ( Isaiah 63:3). He alone brings forth the TRUE one world government of peace and rules in righteousness; impartially judging as many verses in Isaiah testify. Some verses can be taken symbolically but to not take Revelation 19 literally or somehow think Christ already returned in some mystical way is heretical thinking (see 2 Tim. 2:18)
  • Alexis Mitchell 2 - 2 months ago
    Have Adam and Eve been forgiven ? What scripture shows this ? Thank you .
  • Bennymkje - 2 months ago
    "New Jerusalem" (1 of 2)

    Dan.12:12 "Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days."

    Here the Angel of the Lord, the man in linen is referring Israel as the holy people. He raises both hands so emphasis is what is decreed in heaven both by God and the Word and it is not Daniel to know as we read in vv.9-13. So we have to look at the Ancient of days and Man as in the inaugural vision of the Book of the Revelation for answer. We shall come to that anon.

    The man clothed in linen "and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished." The tag time, times and an half is regarding the holy family called out before the worlds began for which we have the night vision in the Book of Daniel. (7:13-14) The tag is associated with the Man component in the Fellowship of God with Man. Thus time signifies Israel, times represent both Israel and Gentile nations. And an half represents 144,000 from the left out church which steps in the breachsince 12 tribes are no longer extant. ("Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads." Re.7:3). What we have in vv.4-7 are those who redeemed their calling to considered 'the servants of our God'.)

    Three and half years of Jesus' ministry is the baseline which works out to 1260 days.

    Daniel is told of 1290 instead of 1260. This 30 days (3x10) refers to the church before rapture. 1260+30 days

    12:11 "And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days."The temple worship has ceased after the ransacking of Jerusalem in AD70.

    Matt.24:27 "so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

    Blessedness refers to the holy people coming their inheritance.
  • Richard H Priday - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Addendum

    The 2000 character "curse" cut off my thought; there is a book of all living it seems; and the book of life and a remnant of those are in Malachi's mention of a "book of remembrance".

    I wanted to ask you to pray for wisdom and suggestions as I feel an overwhelming burden to share some deep stuff about the mark of the beast but don't know if this forum is the best place. I will put it in the prayer section in more detail.

    Glad to hear of your test being good. The Lord has you helping a lot of people so at least I can say with some confidence that is one reason you aren't out of commission completely. I am very bad at serving; maybe that's why He has me living to help at home and working serving students in a cafeteria. Being an only child I suppose is part of the reason and makes me introspective.

    As to the subject of the discussion we of course are sad for those who don't know the truth. I don't know how really to balance the overwhelming emotions that crop up on that with the ultimate reality of Isaiah 66 where those tormented in hell are an abhorrance to everyone else. It makes me think anyway of my half hearted efforts in evangelism; and that is magnified by the sermons in church on 1 Peter and related scriptures on sufferings and persecution we should joyfully endure. Our Pastor talked about the famous "flea" story of Corrie Ten Boom but also about how someone about to die wrote something about asking God to remember the good fruit that happened under the oppressors; and of course that may have been part of what she thought about when forgiving one of the prison guards years later. This sorta relates to what I said in the last post; Jesus asked the Father to forgive them as they know not what they are doing at the crucifixion. In the case of Lucifer as you said they knew enough about what they were doing. I wanted to say that the functions of the angels remained distinct and unique but the fallen can't reflect God just themselves.
  • Richard H Priday - In Reply - 2 months ago
    1 Timothy 5:21 seems to answer that question regarding the "elect angels". I don't believe any elect beings can ultimately fall; but in the case of the angels they saw heaven and were present when the worlds were created as the verses in Job indicate when all the sons of glory shouted for joy. This begs the question of course did God foresee all those who would fall and call the remaining the elect; or were they predestined to go that way? I would say both as God certainly is unlimited. Seeing everything as the angels did there could be no further remedy unlike mortal man who has never seen God or only what they learned starting in Eden. Seeing heaven as Lucifer did and more importantly the proper praise of God's holiness in the beginning also would have made it clear what worshiping a created being would imply. This is similar to the logic I apply to the Tribulation at least from the sixth seal on there is no more need to tell anyone that Christ is Lord as they will hide from the face of God and Christ at His right hand ( Revelation 6:16 imperfectly translated by me).

    Clearly of course God's predestined plan from before the foundation of the world for our salvation (I'll let you find the verse) shows that God knew what was going to occur. This doesn't give us a pleasant feeling; and we should be reminded the dirge said related to Lucifer's fall in Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28. Once the angels saw all these things there was no need for validation of who God was; and there was also no further remedy-they were forever to be out of the favor of God with the ultimate destiny of hell (which was created for the Devil and his angels).

    This should be a sobering reminder to man that there is a point beyond redemption once we have tasted heavenly things as Hebrews and literally hundreds of other scriptures point out in warnings of reprobate individuals and those who at first glance appear to be saved who fall away. There is a book of all living and of life.


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