Bible Discussion PAGE 251

  • Naya - in Reply on Revelation 21
    Mishael, no offense taken at all. Not that my cup is so full that I have no room to learn, but on the things that I have posted, I have studied over 20 years and I'm pretty solid that it's sound. And everything I posted I laid out scriptures I got it from.

    I'm not sure what specifically you're speaking of that I've said which you find to be scrambled, but I have no problem waiting whatever it is out until the day the Lord Returns to clear it up.

    Again, no offense taken. Thanks for your input though.
  • Naya - in Reply on Revelation 21
    Jesse, well, on Rome you will have to research history, deep into history and encyclopedias and match it with Bible history. You're sure to find what I have said is true if you do. A lot has to do with the Ten horns and what they represent dating back to the defeat of the Herulians, Vandels, Ostrogoths, Justinian and even Napolion, and so forth. It's Revelation 13 stuff you have to use world history with to piece it together. I would be writing and replying until the coming of the Lord if I went further into it. But I guarantee it's Rome. So I say to you just keep studying everything. Pray for more understanding, etc.

    You said it's too hard to keep the 10 Commandments??? Those are the very commandments mentioned throughout the bible that will assure us eternal life if we "strive" to keep them. You see I say "strive" because we're human. We cannot give up and say they're too hard to keep. What's so hard about not stealing, lying, committing adultery, coveting, keeping the Sabbath day holy, not worshipping idols and other gods, etc.? The first 4 commandments show us how to love God, the last 6 commandments show us how to love our neighbor (the way God instructed us to love our neighbor). So the 10 commandments is the law of love. As long as we're trying to keep them, we are showing love to God and our neighbors spiritually and physically.

    Now, there are other ways outside of that...but those are our basics. I think the only one most Christians have a problem with is the 4th Commandment. But I'm not trying to go down that rabbit hole. I gotta work out my own salvation with fear and trembling.

    The goal is to do what's required to make the First resurrection.

    And I forgot, yes, I agree the second resurrection is for the Lake of Fire; however, they still must be judged at the Great white throne judgment.(Scary) I plan on and hope I'm a spirit being doing the judging by then.
  • Mishael on Messiah - in Reply on Revelation 4
    Deuteronomy 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

    Psalms 22:16-18 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

    Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

    Isaiah 9:5-7 For every battle of the warrior is with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood; but this shall be with burning and fuel of fire.

    Isaiah 11:2-9 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

    Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, [though] thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

    Malachi 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

    John 1:41 He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messiah, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.

    John 4:25-26 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messiah cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

    John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

    Messiah came. On the day he was crucified, well over 100 prophesies about him had bee fulfilled. You compare those prophesies with the recorded historical account of that time.
  • Naya - in Reply on Revelation 21
    Jesse, I realize the spirit goes back to God who created us. Keeping in mind our "spirit" in us is "the breath of life" that keeps us alive. We are the souls, and we have fleshly bodies. The breath of life is the spirit God breathes into our nostrils. However, the scriptures I posted were to show that no one is in a conscious state after death.

    So it's like no individual person with a spiritual body is up in heaven right now.

    When God breathed into Adam's nostrils, Adam became a "living soul"...without the breath of life he was a "dead soul." So we die, our body and soul dies and we're asleep until the appointed time.

    I did not get the impression that you were implying that the body was in heaven at all. I was just making sure you understood that Paul himself, even as a spirit, conscious and alive, is not in heaven right now. Especially since everyone will get their spiritual bodies at the Resurrections. The soul dies, the body goes back to the dust, and the spirit/breath of life goes back to God. No consciousness until the Return. I think we're clear now.

    Correct, Jesus did not finish his ministry because he was killed in the midst of the week.(a Wednesday) on the Passover which was in the midst of the week that year. He was in the grave 3 days and 3 nights which had him rising at the end of the Sabbath, just before it dawned towards Sunday. He was out of the grave before Sunday.

    When he returns, he will teach Israel in the wilderness 3 1/2 yrs and finish his ministry. This will be mortals (Israel). I explained Jesus came to testify of what was written in the Old Testament. Did you happen to read over the scriptures I replied with?

    I say "Israel" as opposed to Jews because Jews in the biblical term really meant someone was from the tribe of Juda. Israel encompasses all 12 tribes. But I guess you're saying Jews to mean all of the children of Israel?
  • Jesse - in Reply on Revelation 12

    When you say you are not hearing God, what exactly do you mean? I would also like to help you but I'm unsure what you're asking?
  • Mishael - in Reply on Revelation 21
    I mean no offense whatsoever, but your theology is a little scrambled. If you hang out here for a time we'll help you get it straight.

    Maybe Chris can help you. He's very patient and kind.
  • Jesse - in Reply on Revelation 21

    As soon I sent a reply I get a message saying you replied. I should have waited just another 5 minutes. I just read over your last post and it is interesting. I need to dig a little deeper I suppose. Right now I can't commit to believing without a doubt that the antichrist will come from Rome. I'm not disagreeing with that, I'm just not completely sure. It could very well be a Pope but I don't know that.

    You mention the basics as keeping the 10 Commandments and statutes. By statutes, are you referring to the Mishna? I gave up trying to keep the 10 Commandments. I found out early on that the harder I tried to keep them, the more I failed. I failed because I was trying to keep them the best way I knew how. But I couldn't do it. The reason I was failing was that I was trying to do these things in my own human effort. I don't think God thinks too much of anything I do in the human.

    I'll share this with you about the phrase "faith in Christ." There are places in my bible where I scratch through the word "in" and replace it with the word "of." Some might say that I'm adding to or taking away, but not so. Various places in scripture say faith in Christ, but the original text says faith of Christ.

    It's His faith. I come to know that there are two types of faith, human faith, and spiritual faith that the bible speaks of. We cannot produce spiritual faith. Spiritual faith is a fruit of God's Spirit. Without God's Spirit living in us, we could not have the type of faith the Bible speaks of. So I like to look at it as being the faith of Christ, not faith in Christ if that makes sense?

    As for "having a foot in the door," my foot in the door started the moment I began being receptive to God's Spirit drawing me to Christ. I had my foot in the door for a while until deciding to give my life to Christ. My foot's no longer in the door.

    As for writing novels, no worries there. I enjoy the conversation when it is respectful, even if we disagree. God Bless!
  • Mishael - in Reply on Revelation 4
    The Archangel, Gabriel, told The Virgin Mary that the baby's name would be Jesus.

    Check out Luke 1:
  • Jesse - in Reply on Revelation 21

    Thank you for your clarification. Much of what you say here I am in agreement with. I know that no flesh can enter into heaven. And I also know that upon death, the physical body (flesh) will remain in the grave until the resurrection. With Christ as my Saviour, I will be part of the first resurrection. I believe those who are part of the second resurrection will be cast into the lake of fire. I do not believe that the flesh goes to be with the Lord. I do believe that upon death that our spirit leaves our body and will be present with the Lord. So if I gave the impression that I believed that both flesh and spirit ascend up to heaven upon death, I assure you that was not my intent. To be honest, I've never told anyone that my whole body, flesh and spirit will be in heaven because I know that's not true.

    Paul said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, so I take absent from the body to mean just that. It means that upon physical death, my spirit will depart my body (absent from it) and I will be present with the Lord. I hope we're in agreement with that.

    Also, I do understand that the 70th week is referring to a 7-year period. 69 weeks have passed. We are currently living in the times of the Gentiles. My understanding is that the 70th week is still yet to come.

    You mention natural born Israel in a place of safety during the Great Tribulation. I agree. These will be Jews. They will be protected during the last 3-1/2 years of the Tribulation known as the Great Tribulation. We know of at least 144,000 Jews who God will protect.

    I guess I just have a couple question from this so far. Are you saying that Jesus died on a Wednesday? And are you saying that Jesus did not finish His ministry while He was here?

    I look forward to the rest of your reply on the man from Rome that you say you will be sending soon. Until then, thanks for sharing your understanding with me.
  • Carleton - in Reply on Ephesians 5:26
    There are old writings titled; "The mode of Baptism is in the water", food for thought.
  • Carleton on Isaiah 13:10
    "Oh, for a Closer Walk with God" William Cowper, 1731-1800

    Oh, for a closer walk with God, A calm and heavenly frame!

    A light to shine upon the road That leads me to the Lamb.

    Where is the blessedness I knew When first I saw the Lord?

    Where is the soul refreshing view Of Jesus and His Word?

    The dearest idol I have known, Whatever that idol be,

    Help me that idol to dethrone And worship only Thee.

    So shall my walk be close with God, Calm and serene my frame;

    So purer light shall mark the road That leads me to the Lamb.

  • Bible student - in Reply on Proverbs 8
    Sofia is Barbelo its the Gnostic "holy ghost" not the actual one sofia and barbelo is what the Nicolatians worshiped in other words a big big no no hope this helps.
  • BILE STUDENT - in Reply on Proverbs 8
    HMM Good question maybe its the people that were made on the 6th day and their decedents Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

    27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

    28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon
  • Banned again - in Reply on Revelation 21

    7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

    8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

    9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: ...I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:....not their resurrected bodies, just the souls

    10 And they (the souls under the altar) cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

    And they (the souls under the altar) cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? (they await their resurrected bodies and think about how a pre trib rapture would fit into this scenario) Hint: it can not.
  • Susan Williams Dew on Psalms 91:1
    My scripture
  • Walter Rowell on Ephesians 5:26
    Baptism is immersion, being immersed in the word of God, not being dunked in water. more at being immersed in the truth. "Thy word is truth" That is what does the washing.
  • Darryl on Revelation 4
    We all know that jesus most certainly can not be found in any ancient scriptural documents. And even though this name jesus is popular currently doesn't make it the actual name of the Mesiah referenced in times of old because we have no history of the Creator, the Profits or otherwise Men of the Creator referring to the changing of Messiah's name to anything. In fact we do have a history of the consequences of those who turned the people of the Creator to other gods & names which never turned out well for them. Personally since we've come across so many conquering events worldwide whatever name used in the community of the Creators people at the time of the Messiah is a better choice.
  • Naya - in Reply on Revelation 21
    How do I know a man from Rome will sit in the temple? The roman empire has to fall and rise 10 times. Today we are in the 10th time and they're preparing to rise again. The roman head is now called the EU.

    This is all Revelation 13:1-7 prophecy and Daniel 7 and 8 prophecies. It's a lot to go into and can be confusing. But during the tribulation there has to be a religious ruler and a political ruler.

    Sorry we've written novels on here. But it was good talking with you about the Word. Yes, we differ on some things. But hopefully nothing that will get anyone cut off. The basics are keeping The Lord's 10 Commandments and statutes, having faith in Jesus Christ and that should get a person's foot in the door. Working out our own salvation with fear and trembling. Strive to make it in the first resurrection on such the second death has no power. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Without a shadow of a doubt, according to scriptures, no man (human) who has ever lived is in heaven right now except Jesus Christ himself.

    And the Lord isn't going to return until immediately the Great Tribulation.

    The only place of safety during the Great Tribulation for 3 1/2 years will be in the Wilderness...which the Lord will make sure his people get there safely just like he did in the days of old with the Children of Israel.

    I enjoyed the dialogue.
  • Naya - in Reply on Revelation 21
    Jesse, finishing where the dead goes and how Paul nor John nor any man who has ever lived could be in heaven presently.

    Job 14:1-2;10-13 Man dies and wastes away. Man dies and will not wake up until the heavens are no more. (We still have heavens so the dead are still dead)

    In Job 14:14 Job knew he had to wait until his appointed time to be resurrected.

    I Thessalonians 4:13-17 Those who are living will be changed...those in the grave will be raised at the coming of the Lord, which is the First Resurrection.

    Psalms 146:1-4 When we die, in that very day every though perishes. So how could Paul, who died, still be alive in heaven with thoughts?

    St. John 5:25; 28-29 All the dead will hear the voice of the Lord, some to everlasting life and some to eternal damnation.

    Daniel 12:1-2; 8-9; 13 This is referring to the Great Tribulation. Many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting contempt. (Daniel was told this prophecy wasn't for him but it was for the people of the End times. The Lord sealed the words from Daniel.

    St. John 6:35; 38-40; 44; 54;63 The Lord will raise people up on the Last Day.

    A lot of people still believe the dead is in heaven or hell right now, but the truth according to many scriptures is every man, good or bad is still in the grave until the Lord's First and Second resurrection. If humans were in heaven right now, what need would there be for a resurrection? The only one who's not dead is Enoch...who was translated but not dead.

    I'm certain you know these scriptures. But I hope that you will go over them again and maybe see something you hadn't noticed before since I've pointed out some things.

    Paul died in Christ so he will be one of the dead in Christ who will be raised at the Lord's 2nd coming.

    How do I know for sure a man from Rome will sit in the temple? (I'll finish in the the last thread.)
  • Naya - in Reply on Revelation 21
    I'm very familiar w/the 70 weeks of Daniel. Daniel 9th Chapter. The 3 half years out of a week is talking about a prophetic week & a literal week. Jesus was cut off/killed in the midst of a prophetic week AND a literal week, What we know as a Wednesday. So he didn't finish his ministry. Jesus came to testify about what was written in the Old Testament. He taught 3 half years and was killed & that ended the animal sacrificial law.

    (So when I said he will teach natural born Israel in the wilderness 3 half yrs upon his return, that other 3 half years makes the 7yrs which represents a full week of his ministry. 7 years is a prophetic week. (please reference the story of Jacob and Rachel in Genesis 29:16-27 to understand what I mean by this. (7yrs is 1 week)

    In Daniel 10 (For Jesus to have been annointed the "Messiah" was 69 weeks, which left 1 more week (7yrs) a prophetic week.)(This about Jesus, Jerusalem, and the children of Israel, not the anti-Christ nor a 7yr tribulation. Jesus was annointed the Messiah in 26A.D(69 weeks) and cut off in 30 A.D. (70th week/7yrs/7th week)

    Revelation 12:1;6;14 (This is talking about natural born Israel in the place of safety(The Wilderness) during the Great Tribulation. 3 1/2 yrs.

    On Paul and John. II Corinthians 12:2 (Jesus was the ONLY man who was on earth then caught up to the 3rd heaven. So Paul is talking about how he saw Jesus in his spiritual body. Paul is not talking about himself. And John saw a vision of the Throne. He was not physically there.

    John 3:13 No man has ascended up to heaven but he who ascended out of heaven. (if any man other than Jesus is in heaven right now then Jesus lied; he cannot lie so we should all know the dead is still dead and their spirit is not conscious in heaven presently able to communicate with any being).

    Psalms 104:23; 28-29 Man dies/returns to the dust. Ecclesiastes 12:1;5;7 Man goes back to the dust;his spirit goes to God. (spirit is simply the breath of life).
  • Chris - in Reply on John 6:38
    Greg, I have every confidence, based on God's Word, that all who belong to the Lord will be saved as we are eternally secure in Him. Ephesians is one letter that fills the believer with such joy & assurance to his position IN CHRIST.

    I think of Ephesians 2:5,6:"Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved); And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus". This is NOW - not in the future.

    All of Ephesians chapter 1.

    Ephesians 3:11,12: "According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him."

    These are all portions (& many more) to remind us that our full salvation (in our redemption, position in Christ both now & after our departure from this Earth) are already accomplished for us in God's eternal Plan. This is that "sure hope" that fades not away - this is that confidence in Him that He is True & is faithful to the Promises He has given us. Our faith just takes hold of Him in simplicity & trust that He will do all that He has declared.

    We should not be in wonder or doubt: our position IN CHRIST now, doesn't, yea cannot alter through to eternity: one could say, that for the believer, our eternity has already commenced, except we still walk by faith until that coming day when we shall see Him face to Face & proclaim the story: "we are here Lord, Saved by Grace, only by Your Grace".

    The Lord be with your spirit Greg, & make your joy & confidence full & ever present.
  • Jacqueline Lars on Jude 1:1
    Was Simon the brother of Jesus Christ that helped him carry the cross to his own crucifixion
  • Ann on John 6:38
    Where can I find scripture ref the beauty of the sky with rainbow?
  • Norman Walker Butch - in Reply on Revelation 12
    Judy, I believe what you are going through is very common and we wonder why does God not talk to us or answer us in some kind of way. I will not ever tell someone what God should do or will do ever. I wish I knew the answer for you but what I do is I know that God will answer my prayers or answer me some kind of way and I believe that with all my heart because he has done it for me many times and when he did I knew it was him! He answered one of my prayers once that was a very serious thing and only Him and no one else could have known about it but him and he answered me in 5 Min. and it was major! What ever you do have faith in him, never doubt him ever. The devil will do his best to make you think that god in not real as he has done that to me many many times! I know when he is doing it and I ask God to please get him out of my mind and tell the Devil get out of my head, I hate you, leave me be! and it works for me. I wish you the best and whatever you do not give up on the Lord! He will help you I know he will!
  • Chris - in Reply on Isaiah 13:10
    Adam. Yes, I would agree with you, in the sense that, since they followed Christ, they were technically Christians. However, when I think of being a Christian, I think of those who are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, as those who were called Christians from Pentecost & onwards. And this indwelling of the Spirit is what keeps the believer secure in Christ, receptive & responsive to sin's thrusts & given wholly to follow the Lord in spite of any circumstances coming against him in life.

    Sure, there will be doubts, fears, & even a major shaking of faith, but in the end, a full restoration spiritually & in his relationship to the Godhead. A nominal Christian can easily turn away or against the Lord, but the believer in Christ, filled with His Spirit, is incapable of doing such a thing. So, the question I ask myself daily, & I trust other believers would also do, is: "if I need to go through extreme hardship, a terminal illness, loss of my home or finances or even persecution, would I still remain faithful to my Saviour?" The Spirit-filled believer will persevere & endure to the end, being moved & empowered to do so by the Spirit.

    Studying the history of the saints who suffered terribly for their faith, reveals that spiritual fortitude in them that can't be found in those who are without salvation. Those who went to the stake strode forward valiantly, not seeing what would soon befall them, but the Face of the Blessed One waiting on the other side to receive them. If it was not for the Lord Jesus beside them, I wonder how many of Jesus' disciples would have faltered & fled at the face of danger, except for the one who saw his position in the group as one for material gain?
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Genesis 10
    They will put antichrist into power & will continue to persecute the true remnant church. As far as the 70 weeks go, I mentioned this before.

    Jesus died in the middle of the 70th week or at 486 1/2 years because of the word AFTER in verse 26.

    That leaves 3 1/2 years to be fulfilled. Here are three possibilities. I hold to #2.

    1. The death of Stephen 3 1/2 years after Jesus died. This is a belief of the 7th Day ADventists but there is no way to prove his martyrdom historically or biblically on that time. But it is true the gospel really went to the Gentiles at that point so it might be true. Thta would ahve fulfilled the end of 70 weeks then.

    2. the 3 1/2 years of the Great Revolt War starting in spring of 66AD and ending in fall of 70 AD. I hold to this one because part of the Daniel 9 prophecy has to do with the destruction fo the temple and historically it did last 3 1/2 years.

    3. the 3 1/2 years mentioned in Revelation might be it but it doesn't make sense to me as there is nothing in the prophecy talking 2,000 years later & the temple being destroyed was part of the prophecy.

    I am open to the other two possibilities but it is interesting that the Great Revolt lasted 3 1/2 years, fits the prophecy perfectly & is exactly 40 years AFTER the death of Jesus and 40 is the number for testing, trials, etc. I see God granting grace of an extra 40 years since the crucifixion of Jesus even though they were causing many Jewish Christians to be killed by themselves and stirring up government against the Christians as they do to this very day in America with the ADL, ACLU, SPC, and many other organizations that have been taking away our rights for several decades now. We are the persecuted ones. They are hated by many because of what they do and say about Gentiles in their writings. Ever read the Talmud at all? Jesus is called a bastardd and burning in hell in excrement forever just to name one thing they say about Him. 1/3 of the world is SHEMitic. They make up words.
  • Naya - in Reply on Revelation 21
    Jesse, what I meant by "to be found worthy" is just having a good rapport, righteousness through faith in Jesus upon his return.

    When I say "natural born Israel" is physical Israelites by bloodline. Since the male carries the seed, whoever a person's father's father is down the line is the true nationality of that person according to God. Not discounting "mixed" with something else. I'm going strictly by the male's seed as it was done according to the Lord and the bible Descendants of the children of Israel are still here today, only God knows exactly who they are. That's the only way he can gather them from where he scattered them throughout the 4 corners of the earth upon his return.

    (You say Revelation 19 says we come back with him?) Read:Zechariah 14:1;3-5;9;16-17 (iThe day of the Lord's return, yes, he said he will bring all the saints w/him.

    See: I Thessalonians 3:12-13(This is the Lord saying he's coming w/all his saints.

    See: Zechariah 14:9; 16-17 (EVERYONE that is left of all nations. Ask yourself, where did Jesus get his saints from that he'll have w/him upon his return? See: I Thessalonians.

    I Thessalonians 4:13-17 (The Lord coming down. He said the saints will be "caught up in the clouds" to meet him in the air. This all takes place "after" the last trumpet, "after" the "Great Tribulation."

    See: Daniel 7:1-3; 13-14; 17-18; 27 (verse 13 Remember the Lord said he's coming meeting in the clouds?)

    4 Kings=4 Kingdoms. The saints of the most high will take the kingdom. "Under the heaven"=This is Jesus' Kingdom on earth. Notice verse 27 This is the last prophecy the angel Gabriel gave Mary.

    Ezekiel 20:32-39 The Lord is dealing w/Natural born Israel "after" his return on earth. These are mortal beings he will plead w/and purge out the rebels in the wilderness, then make his new covenant w/them. Part of this scripture deals w/the past;part of it deals w/future events.

    I'll answer your second part shortly.
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Genesis 10

    Now, I realize that you've also given a fuller explanation of this & it is noted & appreciated. However, to fully appreciate both sides of understanding verse 27 (whether speaking of Jesus or Anti-Christ), we would need to understand "confirming the covenant", "for one week (7 years)", & a "ceasing & removal of the sacrifices & abominations". You've said that Jesus affirmed the promise through the Gospel (how so for 7 years?), the sacrifices/oblations ceased through His death & resurrection, & the desolation of the abominations at His Second Coming (I assume)."


    Remember what Daniel's prayer was. The answer from Gabriel was concerning HIS people (the Jews), the Messiah, and the destruction of the 2nd temple. The end of the Jewish age ended the 70th week.

    Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon THY people and upon thy holy city,

    Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

    Three different words for WORLD in Matthew 24 explains this. Also, THIS GENERATION shall not pass till ALL these things be in Matthew 23's prophecy. See the FULL futurists confuse this by thinking none of Matthew 24 happened. And the FULL preterist goes to far thinking all of it happened and that there isn't a double meaning with it.

    We are all ONE people now. To divide up Jew and Gentile goes against the whole new covenant. Paul said WE are the temple. We are all ONE in Christ. The middle wall of perdition is gone. We have to ignore all of these verses that hurt the pre-trib teaching.

    One major problem is Judah is just one tribe so even if God never fuflilled His CONDITIONAL promise to them, they would only get 1/12th of the land today, not all of Israel, most of Jordan and parts of two other nations. This is a major theological problem. Joshua and 1st Kings said God already kept his promise and gave them all the land in three passages. It was fulfilled.
  • Adam - in Reply on Revelation 12
    Hi Judy,

    That's admirable that you're so dedicated to seeking God. I have no doubt he will reward you (seek and ye shall find).

    I'm not aware of anywhere in scripture where it says fasting will force a response out of God though. Where does this expectation come from? God is not obligated to give any verbal or auditory response to anyone. Keep in mind God didn't even answer Jesus's prayer himself! Luke 22:42. God mainly communicates through his Word which we already have and can use other people too. Our conscience (Holy Spirit) with guilt or peace can also help confirm our choices. Remember it says to not test God. Luke 4:12. So, I personally would not create a scenario where you believe you are forcing God to respond in some way or another. For example, not taking a sick baby to the hospital for care, but praying and trying to force your will on God to heal seems irresponsible and is testing God.

    Also we are not promised an easy life. Paul had countless problems, so did Jesus. Just because we have problems does not mean we did something wrong or that there's sin in our life. We should still regularly confess and ask for forgiveness of our sins while we follow Jesus however, but not to feel unnecessary guilt from it. We're supposed to love ourselves. This gives us the capacity to show love to others.

    This is my personal opinion. God has already blessed us with freewill and His truth in the Word in order to act using our best judgments. I think we should continue to pray for our concerns, but also not create an arbitrary test where we expect God to respond by a certain made-up deadline otherwise we draw assumptions. God doesn't play by our rules, we play by His. God bless you...

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