Bible Discussion PAGE 25

  • Donna Adkins on 2 Corinthians 6:6
    why did judas betray jesus I know what he did but why did he do it
  • Tim Moriarty - in Reply on Matthew 24:38
    To everyone who responded to my initial question; Between some of your responses, coupled with an email dialog I had with a knowledgeable friend, here is my final thought including my friends previous email (this forum hit the character limit so I could only paste so much of his:

    HI Jeff,

    Based on your response coupled with all the other research I have done I also conclude that is it SOMEWHAT both, but with a primary and secondary interpretation. I think when a verse is confusing it is best to "keep it simple" and keep it in "context". I am thinking that when one takes v38 completely in context (especially pertaining to v37 which is telling the people at the time about the day Jesus the "Son of Man" is returning - as it relates to all the things above v 4-35) that the primary conclusion is that it is not specifically(primarily) talking about the Rapture. As we know, a lot of the bible is written to specific people at a specific time, but that also the "principal/concept" can have applications for others.

    .long story to say: based on scriptural face value, it is not addressing the Rapture, but the concept of being "prepared" can apply to anyone in the church age, especially for those at the time of the anticipated Rapture.

    Oh and if we take it on scriptural face value, then even though we don't understand it, we have to believe that the people affected will somehow be living life as "normal", where "normal" could be a way of saying they wont care enough to be ready.

    Thanks again,

    Tim

    Hi Tim

    Very good question. This is a question I struggled with for a very long time.

    I believe that the context of Matthew 24/25 is the tribulation AND the second coming. That all the events of Matthew 24 are related to the time of the 7 year tribulation leading up to the second coming of Christ at the end of the 7 years. Matthew 25 and the Sheep and Goat judgment is also the second coming when "the son of man comes in his glory"......
  • Jesse - in Reply on John 16
    M Newsom,

    Matthew Chapter 24 is dealing with a future event known as the Tribulation Period. This will be a 7 year period. It is broken up into three sections: Verses 4-14 deal with the first 3-1/2 years, known as "The pains of birth." Verse 15 is known as "The pivotal point" where the antichrist steps in and takes over the temple. And then Verses 16-28 deal with the last 3-1/2 years of the 7 year tribulation period. The last 3-1/2 years is known as the "Great Tribulation," a time when God's wrath will be poured out on a wicked and unbelieving earth.

    And then from Verse 29 to Verse 31, we have the promise of Christ's coming. At His second coming, He is going to gather together, His elect, that would be the Jews, from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other, north, south, east, and west. That's why Romans 11:26 tells us that when Christ returns, all Israel will be saved. When Christ comes at His second coming, those Jews on the earth will be saved, approximately one-third of them that began the tribulation period.
  • CARLOS RAMIREZ TREVINO - in Reply on Matthew 24:38
    Jesse, thanks for your insight. I wasn't aware of some of the interesting details you mention. What I understand is that Matthew was written for Believers in a Jewish setting. If you recall from Paul's admonitions to the Church in Galatia, there seemed to be a lot of confusion as to what a follower of Christ was was supposed to do. There was a vacuum of knowledge and understanding. Jewish Believers needed guidance. Were they still Jewish? Who exactly was Christ? What were His teachings?

    Most of the people Christ addressed were Jewish non-believers. Does that mean that the Sermon on the Mount only applies to Jews? Or that only Jews were to heed Christ's instruction for the Passover Communion? If you recall, there were no Gentiles present at the Passover. Or how about Baptism? Was that only for the Jews? Or the OT, is that for Jews only? Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles. Peter to the Jews. Does that mean we don't take anything Peter said as applicable to Gentiles?

    Matthew 24 is no more for the Jews only, than the rest of the Bible. The message is to everyone, but even more specifically for the Followers of Christ. Matthew 24:29, whether for Jews or Gentiles, is the only, the only place in the entire Bible that pin points the Return of Christ. And in it, Christ Himself says He is coming after the Great Tribulation. Jewish or not, that is a piece of information valuable to everyone. Daniel 7-12 was written to the Jews, but not for the Jews. It was written for everyone, most particularly, for Believers in Christ.

    If you do a careful study of The Day of the Lord, you will find it is limited to the last moment of the Great Tribulation, not the last 3 1/2 years. Same as Wrath. You don't, but many Christians think of the entire Tribulation as The Day of the Lord. But what you say about the Rapture is what Jesus says in Matthew 24:29-31. And it happens Immediately After the Great Tribulation. 1 These 4 says the same thing, but doesn't specify, as Christ did.
  • Andrew wright - in Reply on Revelation 6
    well said.
  • Sheila on Psalms 91
    God is my refuge and I trust in him now that everyone is talking about the new Norm our new normal I don't know plans man trying to figure out what's normal and new Norm all I know is that I'm living for today trusting in God and believe in God don't take nothing for granted the Earth is the Lord's and everything in it belongs to him I pray for people all over the world because this affect the whole world and we all in the world together and it's signs of the time is near the coronavirus is not the only virus there will be many more things to come that will affect the world stay prayerful and stay faithful trust God for everything and all things amen all glory belongs to God
  • CARLOS RAMIREZ TREVINO - in Reply on Matthew 24:38
    Chris, If you believe the tree was an actual unique tree, perhaps it wasn't a corrupt tree. You bring up a good point. But why would God tell Adam and Eve not to eat its fruit if there was nothing wrong with it? Keep in mind that if the tree is an actual tree, then its fruit is an actual fruit which imparted knowledge with one single bite. So God protected the Tree of Life, but what does the Bible say happened to the Tree of Knowledge? As an aside, here is another example of allegory. Psalms 104:4, Hebrews 1:7, "Now about the angels He says: "He makes His angels winds, His servants flames of fire."" So, if that is literal, how long were the Angels there protecting the Tree of Life? And if these trees are no longer there, were they cut down? What happened to them? Did more trees of knowledge grow there?

    Your comparison between Adam and God in the Flesh (Jesus) is questionable. Christ came with a Pre-Determined Purpose. Christ is God. Christ was Mature and fully prepared. His response to the devil was, "You shall not tempt the Lord your God." James 1:13, "God is not tempted by evil" and in Acts 2:24, "death had no power to hold him". Jesus was a man. But He was God in the body of a man. Death entered the world through Adam, because Adam was weak. But life came through Jesus, the Tree of Life, the resurrection and the life.

    I don't agree with your assumption that God wanted to shield Adam and Eve from Knowledge of Good and Evil, to keep them innocent. Is there a Biblical foundation for that? Additionally, you imply corruption wasn't in existence in the Garden. But didn't God send the most corrupt thing in His creation to the Garden? There were 3 things in the Garden, Man, TKGE, TL. Why was the TKGE there?

    I won't debate that God created a flawed universe. He didn't. It deteriorated on its own. But think about what you said, 'I would say it was a part of His Perfect Knowledge & His Whole Plan into Eternity allowed for it."
  • Alex on Genesis 10
    Alex on Matthew 13 Jesus said your hearts are the good ground where that good seed will be sown,Now under the new covenant the perfect Garden is our hearts IMPLING OUR SPIRITS thus the tree of life will grow in our hearts our spirits etc. the field is the World,That woman in Revelation 12 aka as the Church i.e th Church is gona have a baby, we cannot enter the kingdom without this spritual baby which is the H.G..our new inner innerman Thats y we have to know him thats when the good seed will be sown in our hearts and minds our spirits via his seed the word initiating a birth of Christ in us aka as the children of the kingdom, unless ya receive the kingdom as a lil child ( a birth ) you will in no wise enter there in.Its the H.G that is the kingdom Child, we are just a joint heir th bride but its the H.G that gets all the Glory as he is in rank with God. Our Glory is in the fact that the KINGDOM IS GONNA BE WITH IN US and made 1 with us at the marriage. Its the H.G. that comes in his name. In my NAME implies he is the father of the H.G. and Whosoever receives one such child in my NAME RECEIVES ME thus Jesus is the father of the H.G. Thats y he refers to the H.G as the Promise thus Christ is the father of the H.G. THAT WAS THE GREAT PROMISE that Christ wd be multiplied as the Stars of heaven thus the H.G is his seed that heavenly seed that is gonna crush satans head ( mans carnal mind is satans head ) thats y he refered to peter as satan.This Matthew 13 is about a seed coming that is gonna bring in a Perfect being born in our hearts. When that which is PERFECT is come that which is done in parts will be done away with which is modern day Christianity that answers to the image in Daniel 2.THE Babes and sucklings is that which is Perfect that is coming. Outa of the mouths of babes and suckling thou has PERFECTED PRAISE. They come outta of the WORD that Stone cut without hands the good seed. Paul said when that which is Perfect is come,That which is done in Parts will be done away.
  • M Newsom - in Reply on John 16
    So Matthew 24: chapter is the past, present, future. Sometimes you can read and still don't understand. Thanks I would like to stay connect with this site. Blessing
  • Robert - in Reply on Matthew 24:40
    Where does it say satan comes 1st? Wow pay attention to the scripture
  • CARLOS RAMIREZ TREVINO - in Reply on Matthew 24:38
    P2..from P1.

    Those questions lead me to qualify my response. God, I suppose, created mankind 'perfectly suited' for His Purpose. The Fall had to be a consequence of exposure to the elements of creation, for Christ's entrance into the world to be made possible, who according to Titus 1:2 was programmed before creation. I guess my starting point in this discussion is not Genesis, to the exclusion of everything else, but Titus, 2 Timothy 1:9, Acts 3:8, 17:3, John 20:9, Luke 24:26, 44, Romans 8:3, Hebrews 7:18, 10:5. From there, I look back at Genesis. but maybe you are right. Maybe God did create everything perfect.

    Hebrews 10:1, For the law is only a shadow of the good things to come, not the realities themselves. It can never, by the same sacrifices offered year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship.

    Hebrews 7:11, Now if perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood...

    The implication is that man was not perfect, even at the moment of creation. The first indication is that he was not Mature in his understanding. We conclude from the fact that s/he could not distinguish between good and evil, they were created in innocence. If Maturity is a sign of Perfection, they weren't. They were not, as you stated, flawed, but were they fully equipped for the task? I might be getting myself in hot water here. Example, a young persons at 30 might be in perfect health because he doesn't have any ailment or issues. But his system and capacity deteriorate. And while healthy, that might not qualify them go excel in Mountain Climbing. Adam had a mountain to climb he might not have been equipped for. The devil was crafty, astute, street wise. Adam and Eve were gullible. But that was no excuse for disobedience. In law, there is a lot of discussion about intent. Were Adam and Eve making a conscious, deliberate and calculated decision to abandon God? Or is there more to the story, we don't know? Probably. Were they better equipped than I think? Perhaps.
  • Walton wilson on Matthew 24:38
    did Paul and the Apostles preach the same gospel
  • Geof Rondeau on 1 Corinthians 15:55
    I am in discussions with a Jew am I told him I believed the Old Testament refered to someone raising from the dead. Messiah specifically. Can you help me with that please?
  • Ann Hering - in Reply on John 19
    No where in the Word of God does it say that John was "exiled" to Patmos. Hebrews through The Revelation were written early, not later, to the 12 tribes scattered to prepare them for The Tribulation.

    3 John is written to Gaius, the same Gaius that Paul baptized and traveled with (1 Corinthians 1:14), and also mentions Demetrius, the same Demetrius, the silversmith that Paul dealt with in Ephesus. (Acts 19:24)

    Whoever wrote 3 John knew Gaius and Demetrius personally, he saw them face to face!

    Remember that John Mark traveled with Paul throughout Asia, and in 2 Tim 4:11 Paul tells Timothy to take Mark and bring him with thee for he is profitable to me for the ministry.

    It makes sense that John Mark would write The Revelation to the 7 churches of Asia that John Mark visited, not the Apostle John who never left Israel.

    You have to understand what was going on in those days.

    James, Cephas and John and the rest of the apostles knew their ministry was to Israel (circumcision), and Paul knew his ministry was to the Gentiles (uncircumcision) Galatians 2:9. They even shook hands on it!

    No where in the Word of God does it say that the 12 apostles left Israel.

    The "disciple" whom Jesus loved followed Jesus, was at the last Passover at the head of the table next to Jesus, went with Jesus into the high priest's house because he was akin, was at the cross, became the son of Mary, was at the tomb, had a home in Jerusalem where the apostles stayed, knew Peter intimately, knew Paul, Barnabus, Timothy, Gaius, Demetrius and many more in Asia.

    I think the right choice for the writer of John, 123 John and The Revelation has to be John Mark.

    We can' go by church "tradition" to figure these things out. The Word of God tells us who these people are.
  • Chris - in Reply on Micah 1:14
    From my research, Moreshethgath is actually a city (maybe more like a township) of Israel (of olden times). The prophet Micah was said to come from there, as he is referred to as Micah, the Morasthite, which is name given to its inhabitants. From the map, it is located roughly between the Dead Sea & Ashkelon.
  • CARLOS RAMIREZ TREVINO - in Reply on Matthew 24:38
    P1Good points, Chris. The thought that God could make anything He makes less than perfect is a good point to ponder. A commentary on the subject points out that man might have been created immortal and upon eating the fruit, not the fruit itself, but the disobedient act of eating it, divested man of immortality. That seems plausible, in that immortal doesn't necessarily mean eternal. The Angels, apparently are eternal beings, if we understand Christ right when He says that like the Angels, we won't die Luke 20:36. So if God created Angels immortal, why didn't He take that immortality from them, so they too would die? Instead, He sentenced them to eternal punishment.

    And as you say, "Yes, the potential to corruption is there, but God's design & execution of creation was without flaw." I am in total agreement. That is the way I see it. Now, the devil knows his days are numbered. And as you aptly claim, the devil seized the opportunity to 'test' Adam and Eve, in an attempt to destroy the work of God. So the question must be asked, was Satan successful in ruining God's perfect creation? And, why did God banish Satan to the Garden of Eden? Why not keep him as far away from His creation as possible? Maybe banish him to Mercury, Pluto or beyond. Why smack in the middle of the Garden? What was God's reason for that?

    Was it to test Adam's loyalty? But if God, in His omniscience knew Adam would succumb to the tricks of the devil, why put him through that anyway? Is God so insecure that He has to 'test' His creation to make sure it is loyal to Him? Or did God have another reason for doing that?

    Those questions lead me to qualify my response. God, I suppose, created mankind 'perfectly suited' for His Purpose. The Fall had to be a consequence of exposure to the elements of creation, for Christ's entrance into the world, who according to Titus 1:2 was programmed before creation, to be made possible. I guess my starting point in this discussion is not Genesis...continued P2
  • John Rice on Genesis 10
    What verse day not to

    Dable with Alchemists and Barristers and what Book
  • Chris - in Reply on Psalms 8
    Carlos, I realize that this subject is being addressed by Adam also, so I'll not duplicate too much.

    To state, at the outset, I don't believe that the Genesis account is allegorical. If that were intended to be so by God, then we would be all over the place as to what is allegorical or not, are there metaphors also being used, etc. I would rather accept the account as factual & stand before God on that position, than see 'things' in the account that are supposed to be representative elsewhere or indeed untrue. So if one holds to this position (a factual one) & then says I also believe in Revelation 13:1 that it speaks of a literal beast coming out of the sea, even though it clearly doesn't, then I would rather accept his belief than presuppose that some of the creation account is allegorical.

    Whether it took time for vegetation to grown in Eden or was accomplished in an instant by the Word of God is only speculation. And "why it takes so long for God to rescue us from sin?" Well, we are in God's Plan & it no doubt includes 2 Pet 3:9 & Romans 5:6 (about Christ being sent at the appointed time in God's Plan). So, God doesn't need to do all things over a period of time - there is room for His instantaneous response, as I see the days of creation & entrance of sin into man & world. And using our venerable scientists timeline of the age of the universe (e.g. 13 billion yrs old), is anything but factual but based on guesswork: primarily by studying the oldest stars & measuring the rate of expansion of the universe. And what is the basis of their observations? Man's present & limited knowledge of the universe & through which all his determinations are made. I have little regard to such 'findings' where his studies & measurements are based on finite & undefined judgements. I think that we would be better served by them not making such non-provable predictions.

    Finally, I won't even try to discuss the actuality of the two trees, pillars, etc. I think you know my position.
  • Lydia - in Reply on Matthew 20
    God is not slack concerning His promises, as some men count slackness. Not willing any should perish but " all" come to repentance. A genuine love of God and a distaste for things in this world is gain by accepting Christ love for us. God created us in love, nothing in this world can seperate you from God's love, be encouraged. Trust God's love for you. Heavenly Father your daughter is in need of Christ divine intercession, provide the power of " Your Glory" to give her peace, meet her where she is. Remove the demonic forces that surrounds her. Remove the strength of all her weakness heal her heart, mind & body. Holy Spirit dwell in her. We humbly ask in the name & blood of Jesus.
  • Vanessa - in Reply on Psalms 91
    Maybe like the twelve wells as well, have to do with the twelve tribes, upon their return back to Israel
  • Mishael - in Reply on Matthew 24:38
    Spot on!!!
  • Chris - in Reply on Matthew 26:34
    Mary, that guy you refer to in Matthew 26:34 was Peter, a disciple of Jesus. It happened during the final moments before Jesus would be taken to Pilate & then judged worthy of death on a cross (for no crime that he committed). So Jesus was with all His disciples eating during the Passover & they then joined Him going to Gethsemane to pray. It was here that Jesus looked at Peter & told him that before the morning arrived (at the third crowing of the rooster), he would deny Christ, i.e. denying any knowledge or association with Jesus, because he would love his own life more than the Saviour. Then you can see the fulfilment of Jesus' words to Peter in the same chapter, verses 69-75. Then when Peter heard the cock crow the third time, he realized Jesus' words to him earlier that evening, & he became extremely remorseful for his denial of Jesus Whom he loved.

    If you have questions on this or any passage, do write here, as it's important for you to know what the Bible says, as it contains God's Message to us. And the most important message is that we are all sinners, who probably would have denied Jesus just as Peter did, & that God's Love is extended to us through the giving of His Son to die for our sins & in our stead. Acceptance of this Truth & faith in Jesus means that God then receives us as His Own & will not condemn us for our past sins. May God help you Mary, as you read from His Word.
  • Vanessa - in Reply on Psalms 91
    color matters nothing in God's eyes, all people have suffering and sorrow, but God is with us all He sees it, He will deliver all of us from it. God tell us to look forward, not to look back. God's not about race. He created us all, we are one in Christ, He loves us. Today we have drifted from God's truth, and church leaders need to step up on this matter. We are to love as Christ loved us one to another that's it. God Bless
  • Chris - in Reply on 2 Timothy 1:7
    Jan, it is wonderful that He deals with us as a loving father would on Earth (Hebrews 12:5-11) & not as a tyrant lording it over us for our many sins & weaknesses. We always notice that His dealings with us are gentle, patient, & imploring. Conviction of that sin is the first sign of the Spirit speaking to our spirit that all is not well & the Mercy Seat is available for us. How privileged & blessed we are to be His precious children.
  • Mishael - in Reply on Matthew 24:21
    1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

    CAUGHT UP

    Is the phrase you might search
  • Chris - in Reply on Genesis 10
    Just further comments to your reply to my first page: I believe in a pre-Trib. Rapture, in case that wasn't clear in my statements. However, I also feel that some good cases are there to support the other views, so I'm not dogmatic about this as I am about other 'Truths'.

    1. Yes, I'm aware of our woes: the normal woes (some from the Enemy), the discipline of God to His children, & the Great Wrath of God upon the world. My examples of the saving of Noah & the children of Israel, were to show that God removes His children when His Anger is poured upon the world. You can call it 'protected' from His Wrath & as I see it both 'protected' & 'removal' are signified here.

    2. True, many believers (& Israel) suffered terribly over the centuries & are still experiencing suffering, torture & martyrdom today, but this is not God's Wrath. This can come to any of us, especially to those "who live godly in Christ Jesus".

    3. Again True, Harpazo & Parousia are together in the same verse, but the problem is that one looks at Harpazo as part of Christ's Second Coming & the other, as part of Christ's Coming, pre-Trib, for His Saints. Then the question: when do the dead in Christ rise? How many resurrections are there? Again, if there are two (post Christ), then does the Rapture make it a third resurrection? No, the Rapture is still part of the Mystery of the Coming of Christ: that this coming would be for His Church to remove them from the Great Wrath of God. No child of God is seen as having to experience God's Great Wrath - indeed, why should we suffer if we are His Children? But if we do wrong then we can expect His chastening (Hebrews 12:5-11), but not to be a part of His Anger upon the world of unbelievers. This wouldn't make sense.

    4. I agree, the word 'Remain' could be used as 'Survive' the Tribulation. However, the same could be said, if God's Wrath is never poured upon His own, then the remaining ones are those living & waiting during the 'Great Translation'.
  • Mishael on Genesis Holy Spirit
    I was busy today. Got to babysit tomorrow :) I can't believe many of you spent all day tearing into Genesis and Revelation again. No one mentioned the LET US scriptures or Genesis 3:22 ONE OF US. The Godhead speaking to each other.

    There are two Trees! The KNOWLEDGE of good and evil; and The Tree of Life (which refers to Jesus because he offers Eternal Life.

    3:22. And the Lord God said Behold, the man is become as One of US, to know good and evil: and now lest he put forth his hand and take also of the Tree of Life, and eat, and live forever.

    God set a flaming sword to keep the Tree of Life. It's location now: Revelation 22:2

    When Adam & Eve were created they were spiritually connected to God. When they disobeyed and ate the fruit, that connection was severed. How angry was God? In verse 21, He made them clothing.

    God is the Alpha (beginning) and the Omega ( the ending). He knows everything. He doesn't cause pain and suffering. People bring it on themselves. Or they listen to the satanic I WILL, who at that moment had the deed to the earth. Adams failure in the garden as a son of God, put that responsibility on Jesus. He won the deed back on the Cross. Now he is a defeated foe awaiting the final battle as written in Revelation.

    The only way we can be made spiritually alive to God is through His son, Jesus Christ! You must be born again and Receive the Holy Spirit; be sealed; be baptized!

    Has anybody asked the Holy Spirit for a gift? 1 Corinthians 12:31: COVET EARNESTLY the BEST GIFTS.

    HOLY SPIRIT GIFTS:

    Romans 11:29, 12: all of it.

    1 Corinthians 12: all of it.

    Your Life as a Christian will bloom when you are tight with the Holy Spirit; who is God and many other qualities. When you ask Him to come into your life & kick his shoes off... you will fall deeply and reverently, in love with Him. If you ask Him to search you and take out anything that is not like Jesus, you need to be serious and reverent.
  • Grover F Jackson on Matthew 24:21
    There is not going to be a rapture Jesus is coming here the word capture is not in the Bible. It is a false doctrine. Satan comes first 666 6th Seal, 6th Trump and 6th Vial. Jesus is 777. Satan message is he is going to fly you out of here Exzekiel 13.18. God i@ against it
  • Jan Hethcoat on 2 Timothy 1:7
    I love and believe in God ,but I also fear God. I believe that when I step out of God's will that He might and does, deal with me. The Holy Spirit makes me very uncomfortable until I go to God in prayer and seek His forgiveness.
  • Mary Reid on Matthew 26:34
    What exactly did the guy who denied Jesus that constituted a denial ? What did he say no to ?

    x 3 ?


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