Bible Discussion PAGE 23

  • Shaughnessy on Ephesians 5:31
    My wife and I, from the very beginning of our marriage, 32 years ago, made the Lord the foundation of our marriage. We have not been difficulty free all these years and what compounds our lives is; my wife has a twin sister and she is not a believer. She has tried at times to come between my wife and I however, my wife is a strong Christian woman that put her sister in her place! My definition of "family is; you, your spouse, and your children. Everyone else is "extra!" My wife and I are very happy. We love Jesus, we attend church regularly, we love each other, and we have a solid marriage thanks to the Holy Spirit. None of my wife's family go to church nor do any of them believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as savior. We finally moved away from both our extended family and are doing well. Never let Satan drive a wedge in between you or your spouse via anyone or anything! Be obedient to His word and always keep Him nuber one in your life. You wife should be #2 and children #3. God bless....
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Genesis 10
    Good Morning Chris. The word ekklesia that we use in the New Testament and put the word CHURCH in our English Bibles also means ASSEMBLY or CONGREGATION as you can see below. It would have been better translated as assembly or congregation which is what the people of God in the old Testament were always called.




    From a compound of G1537 and a derivative of G2564; a calling out, that is, (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both): - assembly, church.

    Total KJV occurrences: 115

    did not the gospel already go to Israel already and first at that?

    Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

    The gospel was originally preached to Adam and Eve. This is called the Protoevangelium in theology.

    Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

    God elected or CALLED Abraham and his descendents to be the preachers but they failed during the time of Christ and God gave the kingdom to another nation- a heathen pagan Gentile nation. No one will answer me on what they think this verse means below after Jesus gives the 7 woes against the Pharisees and Jerusalem. These passages were NEVER taught by any of the famous pre-trib teachers I sat under

    Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

    Matthew 21:44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

    G1484 (greek for NATION)


    Probably from G1486; a race (as of the same habit), that is, a tribe; specifically a foreign (non-Jewish) one (usuall
  • CARLOS RAMIREZ TREVINO - in Reply on Matthew 24:38
    Thank you, Jesse. I appreciate your humility and Christ-like response. But there is no need for apologies. We all have regrets. We all change our minds. And we all defend our positions with fervor. That doesn't mean we don't have open minds. Most of Philosophy and Theology, and they are inseparably tied together, involves an exchange of ideas, controversy, intellectual frustration, research and regrets. I have come to believe that none of us has the whole truth, aside from the fact that Christ is Truth. But, for whatever reason, as someone explained before, in response to my question about so many denominations, it is like with the Tower of Babel. God confused their languages and dispersed them.

    We all have different points of view. Good thing is that a Forum like this one gives us a chance to discuss and compare. Our views may either strengthen or change. Some Christians worship on Saturday. Some Baptize by immersion. Some believe in transubstantiation. Others believe in Free Will and some don't even believe there will be a Tribulation or Rapture. And they all get that from the same Book. So, in my opinion, no one has a lock on the whole truth. God has given each one of us a little bit, so we don't get puffed up with pride.

    I just hope those reading and responding to my posts are not offended by anything I say, unless it is to drive them to the Scriptures that draw them closer to Jesus. Everything, Everything is about Jesus. We think it is about us, but it is about Jesus. He is the one who went to the Cross, suffered a grueling death, defeated death and now sits with the Father until it is time for Him to return to gather us up with Him for all eternity. We should not try to focus the attention on us, our comfort, our enjoyment, and the good life we are promised in Heaven. We must focus on the Victorious, Resurrected Christ who is God. Thank you.
  • Obbie Beal on Luke 20
    1 And it came to pass, that on one of those days, as he taught the people in the temple, and preached the gospel, the chief priests and the scribes came upon him with the elders,

    Note: there is a group of people that quietly listen to JESUS preached the gospel thereby souls would receive SALVATION. Also there is a group of the leaders, see 19 and 20, sneakingly wanting to silence JESUS thereby souls would be loss. 2020 we can shout thank to GOD that the POWER of HIS WORD was never stop thereby it reached us and we can be SAVED from the lake of fire, see John 3:16-21 as it relates BECOMING SAVED.
  • Bob Hilt - in Reply on John 16
    Jesse your points well taken and I feel the same exact way on preachers on TV. TV is filth and then for a couple of hours on Sunday they allow Jesus to be preached? I do not think so. Especially the big names on the airwaves are the ones I trust the least. Many churches are state incorporated 501 C 3 IRS approved tax exempt businesses, esp the larger denominations. They must agree to never teach against "public policy" to keep their tax exempt status. Things like legal abortion, sodomite marriage, etc you get the idea. So basically many churches are actually state chartered corporations with the name "church" in there somewhere. You can look this up with the Department of state (your states) division of corporations or businesses.
  • Kerry - in Reply
    Demons can't taunt you without Gods permission. Cast them away as far as the east is from the west. My spirit feels you are into witchcraft, tarot cards, the stars. Stop the sin and dig deep into the word, ask forgiveness, never mess with evil again, it will attack again, resist the devil and he will flee. Only God knows the future. Your current path leaves you open to death, repent and be saved, wash in the Holy Spirit Magdalena. Find Cristians to surround you. Draw them in and ask angels
  • Vanessa on Leviticus 19
    These were the laws given to Moses for the Jews before Christ, although Jesus did say these laws were good, and didn't come to take them away but fulfill them, they shows us God , but Christ gave us the new laws to love thy Lord your God with all your heart,all your soul, and all your mind, and to love your neighbor as yourself. Jesus is our passover Lamb if we believe in Him and that God the Father sent him , repent of our ways we shall die but live
  • Mishael - in Reply on 1 Corinthians 15:55
    I wrote back but I shifted position and lost

    it :(

    I'm free tomorrow so I'll try to remember what I said lol. Main thing is the Holy Spirit has said that what's going on over there is between Jesus and the nation of Israel. I don't get a vote. God bless you.
  • Chris - in Reply on Deuteronomy 32:15
    Jeffrey, sometimes Israel is referred to as Jeshurun. Apparently, used affectionately with poetic connotation. (see also references to this name in Deuteronomy 33:5, 26; Isaiah 44:2).

    The message in the passage you referred to, is that God has cared for His children, Israel, right from their beginning, feeding them the best of the earth had to offer. But they committed spiritual adultery & turned aside from the Lord, & so they are thus described in v15 (that they became lazy & insensitive to the things of God & turned to the gods of the nations).
  • Peter on Genesis 2

    Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

    So; I would say that God created the family; and therefore, if anything takes from that, it is wrong even if it is considered a christian thing to do. If anything, including a christian religion; takes from the family; it therefore seems to me to be a cult; and therefore I would caution christians to consider and be aware of such matters.
  • Methuselah bdot southseville on Matthew 24:21
    Hard truth! where it is said an eye for an eye who spoke these words in the bible?
  • Marylou Hubbard on John 14:10
    God Bless You

    And thank you for my daily Scripture
  • Chris - in Reply on Psalms 8
    Carlos, I realize that you didn't mean every part of the Creation account, but if allegory/metaphor principles are applied, one has to have good Scriptural proof that that is how it was intended to mean. And to the Scriptures you've given in the past on this aspect, I really can't make the connection.

    Even the 7th Day, Rest of God. I've heard others talk about it, but again, where is the connection between God resting after all His Works & the period of time that we are in. Of course, Hebrews speaks about the "rest to the people of God", but this has nothing to do with the 7th day. Maybe, you could give me specific Scriptures to support that.

    "Science tells us, with a high degree of certainty". Science, if it deals with laws or data that are observable & through experiment, is fine by me. But when a Scientist tells me the age of the Universe, or about the origin of its heavenly bodies, & yet (for many of them) are unable to tell me correctly where they have come from & to where their destination will be, I say, I would rather believe in the Bible & to what God has revealed to us (however, limited that revelation may be). If you feel that is unfair to the 'Scientists', the point I'm making is that their knowledge of the unknown is severely limited by their own calculations, surmises & research into other peoples' works. It may be that the Earth is such & such years old, & even their calculations may be better than mine (if I would dare attempt it), I would rather see them speak about what they know for fact rather than fill gullible minds with erroneous drivel.

    So, if there are non-literal/allegorical aspects in the Creation account, where does allegory start & literal begin? Who decides between the two? If it's clearly seen in Scripture, then which Scripture, & if one who doesn't believe in allegorizing parts of Genesis, can he be suitably convinced after studying the given Scriptural proofs?
  • Mishael on Matthew 24:38
    Matthew 12:36

    How does that pan out if you are typing erroneous comments? Just curious...
  • Jeffrey on Deuteronomy 32:15
    Who did Jeshurun kick? Did Jeshurun kick Him out?
  • Etta - in Reply on Deuteronomy 30
    Our faith in Christ and Christ alone, and it's by His grace we are saved, but we must also be careful we don't take Scriptures out of context.

    2 Cor 13:1-6 This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

    13:2 I told you before, and foretell you as if I were present the second time, and being absent now I write to them which heretofore have sinned, and to all other, that, if I come again, I will not spare: 13:3 Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you.

    13:4 For though he was crucified through weakness, yet he liveth by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you.

    13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? 13:6 But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

    There is no doubt, words have power, but we're still finite beings, made in the image of the infinite Almighty God, that was my point.
  • Jesse - in Reply on John 16
    Thanks Bob,

    It just kinda sounded odd to me to have someone go to YouTube for answers when all the answers can be found in scripture. I'm not saying it's wrong to go there if that's what someone chooses to do, and it's not my place to do so. It's just that for myself personally, I am not sure that I can trust YouTube as a reliable source of truth. There probably are some good teachers with YouTube channels, no doubt. I'm just hesitant to go there I guess.

    You do make a great point about getting kicked off for preaching truth. We see a lot of that today, and it's getting worse. I'm not too sure how much longer we will have our freedom as believers. I guess that's a normal response to the truth in an unbelieving world. Sometimes we as believers get offended when we are witnessing the truth to someone and they reject us. But doesn't Paul even say that even when they reject, that is a victory? When I was a new believer, I used to get upset when I would try and share Christ and someone would reject what I shared. But not I realize they aren't rejecting me, they're rejecting Christ. There's victory either way, whether they receive Him or reject Him, because Christ only wants those who are drawn to Him by the Father, not those who are coming for the wrong reason. Well, it's late for me so I'm signing out. Blessings in Christ!
  • Bob Hilt - in Reply on 1 Corinthians 15:55
    Mishael I looked at Jews for Jesus and that "messianic Jew" Stan Telchin and I notice they always have that 6 pointed star on their sites. the same 6 pointed star on the Israeli flag.

    Old Testament book of Amos 5:26 But ye (Jews) have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the STAR star of your god, which ye made to yourselves. (what star do Jews carry?)

    New Testament book of Acts 7:43 Yea, ye (Jews) took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the STAR star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.

    Who was Moloch? Jeremiah 32:35 And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto MOLECH Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this ABOMINATION abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

    Unless the book of acts is wrong, the 6 pointed star is tied into the occult with Moloch since it is the only star the Jews have carried for centuries. Personally I find this troubling.

    A Jewish author wrote the book "The Six Pointed Star book" by author O.J. Graham

    He lays it out plain as day from the scripture, history and the occult.

    Personally I find this disturbing for alleged believers using occult symbolism.

    6 pointed star does it equal 666? 6 points, 6 triangles 6....?
  • Chris - in Reply on Matthew 24:38
    Carlos, your questions: "what does the Bible say happened to the Tree of Knowledge? As an aside, here is another example of allegory. Psalms 104:4, Hebrews 1:7, "Now about the angels He says: "He makes His angels winds, His servants flames of fire."" So, if that is literal, how long were the Angels there protecting the Tree of Life? And if these trees are no longer there, were they cut down? What happened to them? Did more trees of knowledge grow there?"

    My answers: we're not told what happened to that tree. The Psalms & Hebrews references: clearly metaphorical, but if one had to insist they were not, I wouldn't dispute it as I can't ascertain any other Scripture to support their view. No idea how long the Angels were protecting the Tree of Life: we're not told. Were they cut down, what happened to them or did more trees of knowledge grow there? No idea, except for Revelation 2 & 22 references to the Tree of Life.

    My connection of Adam to Christ was purely as two who possessed a sinless nature. Both had the capability to be tempted, one failed, the other passed.

    My "assumption that God wanted to shield Adam and Eve from Knowledge of Good and Evil, to keep them innocent". Yes, this is my assumption based on the fact that God said to them that if they ate of the fruit or even touched it, they would die. Of course, they didn't die immediately, but sin entered & they died spiritually & eventually, physically. So, death was the direct product of disobedience & sin, but my assumption from the reading is that, since God selected that particular tree for them to stay away from, there is also the thought, that they being debarred from such knowledge was paramount in maintaining their innocence which was in God's design for mankind.

    God didn't send "the most corrupt thing in His Creation into the garden". Satan came to it of his own volition & in his plan.
  • Chris - in Reply on Matthew 24:38
    Page 2.

    4. "Was (Satan in Eden) it to test Adam's loyalty?" No. Satan came of his own volition to attempt corruption of man. God didn't put man in that situation to test him, but to warn him of partaking of the Tree of KoGaE, so that innocence would perpetually be his/her character. What Satan then did subsequently, was of his doing & not a test from God.

    5. "The implication is that man was not perfect, even at the moment of creation." You cited Hebrews 7:11; 10:1 in relation to perfection. I understand your correlation of Perfection with Maturity, & this is true in the case of the believer striving for perfection = maturity in Christ. But how do you correlate this Perfection with the lack of Maturity in A & E? I can't see the connection. If man was made perfect by God, nothing else is involved (e.g. no maturity, no analysis skills, no forecasting abilities based on evidence around, indeed, not knowing what is good & what is evil). A perfect human creation is just that: perfect in itself, though not necessarily having the identical personhood & character of the Creator.
  • Chris - in Reply on Matthew 24:38
    Page 1.

    Carlos, following threads is now getting difficult, so can only comment on points (hopefully the latest ones) that I see.

    1. How does "man (Adam) eat the fruit, not the fruit itself, but the disobedient act of eating it, divested man of immortality". So, is it the imagery of eating but not in actuality that you mean here? So then the fruit wasn't real, then probably not the Tree. Was the Garden real? I'm confused; my normal logical mind can't grasp such a concept, in that what is real anymore.

    2. I have never believed that Angels could die (which implies mortality); they are eternal beings incapable of 'immortality' (like them, man will one day be in eternity). The only judgement for wicked Angels is not death, but the Lake of Fire.

    3. "Was Satan successful in ruining God's perfect creation?" Yes. And "Why did God banish Satan to the Garden of Eden?" This is new to me. Do you have a reference for this? The only one I know is Revelation 12:9, where God had cast him onto the Earth. And Ezekiel 28:13, but this shows that he was in Eden (maybe referring to the temptation where he sought out A & E), not cast down to Eden.

    (onto Page 2)
  • Mishael - in Reply on Psalms 144
    The Soldiers Prayer can be Googled.
  • Jesse - in Reply on Matthew 24:38

    Thank you for your kindness. Please know that you have not upset me by any means. As far as who's right and who's wrong, I try to avoid those things. I know I can be wrong also. I've said this before and I'll say it again: My strongest point as a believer in my relationship with Christ is to confess my spiritual stupidity. I confess to the Lord that I don't know. And even if I did know, I wouldn't know. Even if God did send me a message, how do I know it is from God? I don't. I plead dumb sheep. I plead I can be deceived and I'm trusting totally in Christ. When I began to take that approach and that position before Christ there was never any doubt about what the Lord wanted me to do. Everything was so definite. I did what He did. That's it! Where He goes, I go, and where I go, He goes, if that makes sense? I know my position will always be behind Christ. He said follow me. I don't walk beside Him, and I don't walk ahead of Him. My position will always be behind Him.

    I think we could both agree that we sometimes let our own human pride get in the way of having healthy conversations. I myself am guilty of that. I consider myself to be very narrow minded when it comes to the things of the Lord. If that's considered a fault, that's a fault I don't mind having. You tell me that I can believe anything I want, and I wish it were that easy but it's not. And you and I, and any other believer for that matter, there's no such thing as being less of a Christian, just like there's no such thing as a believer lacking faith. I hope you understand what I mean by that.

    Anyway, thank you again. It is good talking with you also. Stay in the word my friend. I'm sure we'll speak again. The Lord is good!
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Matthew 24:38
    On your last paragraph, I would have to say I agree with 95%. The one thing I disagree with is it says UNTO the coming of the Lord and parousia means physical return. I know guys like David REagan say, "What, is it a yoyo rapture?"

    Yes, that is what the Bible says. Those that are alive and REMAIN (PERLEEPTO or survive) UNTO the coming (parousia or physical return).

    What are we surviving from if we are taken before it gets real bad?

    Also the word klepto would have been used by the Holy Spirit instead of harpazo if there was a 'secret' rapture. But he used the word that means to seize, pluck, pull. Why? None of us would survive the wrath of God that starts to get poured out after Satan's wrath. In 70 AD God pulled the saved ones out of Jerusalem and had them go into the wilderness and they were protected right before Titus' army destroyed the city. Noah was protected in the flood. Lot taken out but still on the planet. Whether it is a pre-wrath rapture or post-trib (I lean toward post-trib), God has a certain number of us who will be martyred and some that will be protected. So whether He pulls us out and puts us in a safe place or pulls us out in a pre-wrath rapture, His will will be done. This is my take brother. It woudl be great if you can take my END TIMES survey on my youtube channel.
  • Mishael on Genesis 10
    Eve coveted knowledge from the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

    The Godhead decided to prevent them from eating from the Tree of Life, because they would live eternally in their disobedient, fallen state.

    The Tree of Life is found residing in Revelation 22:2
  • Mishael on Genesis 10
    There actually is a prophesy in Psalms about Judas Iscariot. The disciples were bible studying, in Acts I think.

    Jesus knee.
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Matthew 24:38
    PART 5:

    I'm not saying there isn't an Old Testament verse that talks about some going back into the land at some point. The Ethiopian and Eritrean Joos have been trying to migrate into Israel for about 10 years now and are rejected because they are black - a little hidden secret by many teachers. They are true blood Jews. I believe God started this work about 10 years ago so I believe we have no more than 30 more years before Jesus' return to set up His millennial reign.

    The rapture had to take place no later than 1988 if 1948 is true. A Biblical generation is always 40 years or less. We have several passages in scripture with the number 40 in it. They are trying to now use a passage in Psalms out of context to make a generation 70 top 80 years. Ask Hal Lindsey and many others who predicted a pre-1988 rapture based on the 1948 Balfour Declaration (British/U.N.). Half the Joos live in America and most in New York City. They for the most part reject what goes on over there and many over there reject what is going on. That is why they predicted it. It is based on what they can see over what is really happening. Many Christians in Palestine were ethnic cleansed once the 1950's hit and not by Muslims. I will leave it at that. Would God do that to His people?

    Matthew 24 only says, "his disciples came to him" yet Mark 13:3 actually tells you the FOUR disciples that came to Him with their three questions. It wasn't all of them.

    But the entire Bible is written to all people to learn from. Jesus even said, "Had you believed Moses, you would have believed me because he wrote of me." Most modern sects don't even believe the Old Testament all by itself even though Jesus fulfilled over 300 prophecies that are in the Old Testament. If they didn't believe Moses, and didn't believe Jesus, why would you think they are going to read Matthew?
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Matthew 24:38
    PART 4:

    Pre-trib teachers have had this verse wrong at least since 1948. They totally ignored the synoptic gospels and that Luke gave an extra detail that shows us Jesus is merely talking about the signs He previously gave in the preceding verses and Israel becoming a nation wasn't ONE of those signs. Reread Matthew 24. You won't find it. It was added to the text to make their teaching fit. Woe unto anyone adding to God's Word. Most of the smarter teachers do not say that is Israel anymore because guys like me called them out on it and they know we will bring up the "fig tree being cursed" passage that is talking about Israel.

    Read the whole chapters of Matthew 21, 22, and 23 the many warnings of time running out for you and the 7 woes of Matthew 23 given by Jesus Himself before He prophecies their destruction.
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Matthew 24:38
    Part 3:

    I will show you the first major problem I ran into with verses that were being used to support pre-trib teaching and it is one of many. I shelved all my unaccredited Bible College years and 30+ years of study on my own and just started reading the scriptures and asking God for truth.

    Let's take this passage for example. This one woke me up. I can give dozens more but let's just go with this one brother.

    Matthew 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

    Pre-trib teachers will say that this "fig tree" here is Israel yet it has absolutely nothing to do with Israel as it is metaphoric language and just mean ALL THESE SIGNS = MY PHSYICAL RETURN. That is what a metaphor is and usually has the word "like", like as" or "such" to show it is making a comparison. Now follow me here. This isn't rocket science by any means. I then went to Luke and it proves what I am saying here. Read the passage slowly and you will see the problem. We brush over things very fast sometimes and miss it.

    Luke 21:29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;

    Luke 21:30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.

    Luke 21:31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

    We have that nasty phrase "...and all the trees;" in verse 29 looking us square in the face and shows this passage is not even talking about any nation.
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Matthew 24:38
    PART 2:

    Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

    Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

    Who was Jesus talking to here? - Peter, James, Andrew and John. That is how Jesus started His whole discourse which the end part of Matthew 21, 22, 23 and most of beginning of 24. Always ask yourself when reading a passage, What is the What?, Who are the Who?, When was the When?, Where was the Where, and What is the Why? Then make sure you read the context. You cannot get the FULL context of chapter 24 without reading the 3 previous chapters. You will miss a lot. It is all of the Olivette Discourse. You read Matthew 24 alone and you will believe and teach a lot of things incorrectly.

    There is only ONE group of Jews that I am aware of today that strictly stick to the Old Testament. They are Kirite Jews and very few. The rest of the religious ones hold to the unsaved rabbinical teachings - Talmud, Mishnah, and Gemara and is why they are unsaved. Those writings are commentaries- useless at best. 50% to 68% of Jews living in Israel today, yes today, are atheist or irreligious as their own media if you ever read their own online newspaper columns admits. So if you think they are going to read the New Testament, unless they converted to Christianity, it isn't going to happen. It will be way too late for them and after the fact when they do. The antichrist will be there soon.

    Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

    Joh 5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

    Joh 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

    Joh 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

    Joh 5:47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my w

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