Bible Discussion PAGE 224

  • You39re not lost if - in Reply on John 14
    Lost1, you're not lost if you're trusting in Jesus' sacrifice alone for your salvation. Please read Psalms 51 and know that God wants godly sorrow for repentance but not fleshly guilt. Ask Him to grant you the joy of His salvation. Please go to the Living Waters website and read Save Yourself Some Pain.

    God's grace and love through Jesus is with you, and if He's saved you and sealed you with the Holy Spirit, then you are assured of salvation no matter how you may FEEL. Remember, His Spirit bears witness with ours, those who trust in Jesus' sacrifice to put them in right standing with God, that we are His children.

    I love you, but God loves you best.
  • Chris - in Reply on Philippians 4:17
    D.J., so I understand that you see two distinct accounts of creation of mankind (one for the other races & the other Adam & Even from which comes the Divine line to Christ). Well, I have tried my best, but can only see one account of creation: the Genesis 1 account shows what God did during the 'Days of Creation' & the Genesis 2 account gives more detail of the creation of man, his placement, his meeting the other creation of animals & also his new companion in life. So I can't take this point further as our understanding is clearly divergent, though your explanation for the 'different instructions' given can now be seen. To restate, I see both creation accounts as pertaining to one creation of man & not multiple; the manner of writing & repetition in part, just doesn't convince me of anything but the one creation.

    I can understand & agree with your remarks on the 'Ages' as referenced to 2 Pet 3:5-7. In reference to Satan & specifically to Genesis 1:2, I understand it is commonly assumed that the Earth became "confusion & emptiness" as a result of Satan's fall to Earth & that is acceptable. But since it's not specifically mentioned as such, & Satan being found at Eden doesn't necessarily give proof to support that belief, we should allow for some other force, whether from astral bodies or deterioration over the eons, that may have caused this deterioration to this once perfect World. Though, I can see that when evil is joined to something good & perfect, the result is evil (i.e. the absence of complete purity).

    Otherwise, your remarks are appreciated & on the whole concurred with. Thank you for your time in these important subjects.
  • Chris - in Reply on Philippians 4:17
    Page 2.

    At least, we're referring to the same Book, so one hurdle is omitted, but we have to deal with the evidence from Scripture first.

    Then further to your Page 2, in reference to the giants, their survival post-Flood & their progeny would be difficult to comment on, since the foundation is not agreed upon. So with just a quick response to that: Is the mention of giants in those days a direct reference to the sons of God mating with humans or were there giants prior to that occasion? (Genesis 6:4). Did not the offspring of the giant-human mating produce "mighty men of renown'? Even if the whole Earth was not flooded, but only in a specific locale, it remains that God destroyed every living substance from the Earth (Genesis 7:23). And, how far back can the lineage be traced for the Caananite, Perizzite, Hivite & the Hittite? To Noah or to a post-Adamic race? If to Noah: what's the proof? If to another race of people: which race?

    So my point is not to discredit your beliefs but to show that insufficient evidence is given to formulate anything outside the parameters of the Word. We can't assume something because it justifies or gives meaning to something else that may be evident. Why? Because our hypotheses may well be completely out of kilter thereby producing an erroneous outcome. I realize I don't have the answers, but I know for sure, that I would rather declare ignorance than to surmise/assume/calculate on certain 'facts' that cannot be clearly supported in Scripture.
  • Chris - in Reply on Philippians 4:17
    Page 1.

    D.J., as always, I appreciate your comments & the time you've given to writing them. Yes, we all seem to have that extra time on our hands especially during these uncertain days.

    I won't dispute the use of the word "flesh", as you've shown it in Hebrew, simply because I've never examined this properly. So, I will accept your explanation & application of that word. Yet, in Genesis 6:18-20, it is specifically declared who & what were to be carried in the Ark (i.e. the eight humans & two of every animal, male & female). I wonder how you can understand that 'other humans', not of the Adamic lineage, would also be included amongst these, seeing that the whole reason for the 'escape in the Ark' was for the destruction of all remaining, unbelieving humans (vv 5-8)?

    When I consider Scripture, as with such accounts that are not fully explained, I try to get to the very first mention of it (as here in Genesis) & progress through the Word to find more detail on the type of people (& animals) in question. Of course, the enquiry can sometimes be fruitless, simply because insufficient information is given, so my search ends as no other material is forthcoming.

    Since you too are reading from the same Scripture & I'm sure you are not privy to other material on this subject, could it be that you're viewing the Genesis account the other way, i.e. backwards rather than forwards? To explain: if you have a belief that there must have been other races of (non-Adamic) people in existence since creation, then to support that belief, you would have to also assume that it was not just eight people & animals that went into the Ark, but other humans too, or else how could we have such a diverse range of humanity. I ask, can we make such assumptions when the Scripture gives no further light on them? Are those assumptions even believable then, since we can't see it in Scripture?

    Onto Page 2.
  • Mishael - in Reply on Acts 19:2
    I was healed just this morning! Had to get up and speak Out against the demons of infirmity, loud. By the time I was done fighting against spiritual wickedness, my leg felt ready to stand on a chair! God is good and faithful; full of grace and mercy.

    If you need to be healed, then learn spiritual warfare! Keep your eyes on Jesus and pray. A legal child of God makes the demons run.

    As a pastor once told me; if you aren't butting heads against Satan & his demons... you're probably walking with them; or they don't consider you a threat. Satan is a legalist. Do not assume that God gave him permission to make you sick or in pain!! It's a lie. Fight back.

    You don't have to have the gift of healing. There are hundreds of healing scriptures in the Bible. Somebody make a list, so we can copy it. The more of those you have in you, makes you a formidable warrior. Light beats out darkness every time.

    We may not be able to beat up family or neighbors, but we sure can Send demons into outer darkness and dry places. I always remind Satan that he is going to HELL.

    Praise the Lord, thank Him that his Mercy endures Forever, and stand up. There's a Psalm that all the verses end with "His Mercy Endures Forever."
  • Shanita Witherspoon on Ephesians 1:13
    LORD thank you for giving us your Holy Spirit and its only by your grace that we haven't been consumed, and you are still offering to us your Only Begotten Son in whom you are well-pleased. Praise the Lord!!!
  • Chris - in Reply on Matthew 28
    I can appreciate your point & thank you for your comments, Linda, that there could well be spiritual forces behind such catastrophes & we need to be aware of this.

    You will remember Job & all that he went through in the loss of his family, possessions & health. I wonder what went through his mind when the reports of his losses came to him? We do know that he did not accuse God for this great loss & in the same token, neither did he accuse Satan. He was bewildered, angry & grieving, but laid not his suffering as from God nor from Satan. So, we too, cannot always know whether our tragedies in life are a result of spiritual forces working against us, or just natural occurrences because we live in a corrupt world. Though, there would be times when we clearly see God's Hand moving on our behalf, especially when we have sought Him in prayer.
  • Chris - in Reply on Acts 19:2
    Agreed, that "speaking in tongues" was given for a sign to the unbeliever & for the edification of the Body. However, I did let my mind 'wander', wondering if this gift so given by the Holy Spirit for the ministry of the Gospel, could also be given on those occasions when the missionary is unable to communicate & therefore his words, then either come out in the language of the hearer, or at least, is translated by the Spirit in the ears of the hearer. Anyway, as you say this aspect (= my musing) is not in the intended meaning & use of the Gift. And I agree that there is a trail of broken & confused believers who have not spoken in tongues or received healing for their bodies because an incorrect understanding & teaching on these subjects was given them. And a couple of 'them' have even told me, a non-tongue speaker, to just babble something, as they had to do(!!), in the hope & waiting for the 'gift' to be given.
  • William Kirkland on Psalms 23:3
    Are there dogs in Heaven?
  • Linda Crews - in Reply on Matthew 28
    Chris, 1. I'm thinking based on my life in California for 22 years. Anytime there is a large earthquake; people are genuinely fearful. I have witnessed people running out of the church building during service as the earth quaked.

    2. I understand the natural elements of an earthquake. That is what can be seen with the eye, and what science can explain. I believe that many times when there is something to see with the eye, there are spiritual forces (good or bad) bringing it about. I also believe that many other times things are just natural happenings. I always look for the spiritual because I am eager to see the hand of God.

    Loved your comments. Love discussing the Bible with brothers and sisters in Christ.
  • Jim on John 14:6
    Jesus is my Lord and saviour,I believe in Jesus as well as the father who sent his only begotten son. All that Jesus when through for me and you let me know that Jesus is God son. And when he suffer and died like he did, he is heaven sent. God love us that mustthat he sent his precious son, to do what the first Adam couldn't do. Jesus is the truth. When Jesus said( I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the father, but by me),too let everyone who he is. Hallelujah glory to god. In reference to John chapter 14.
  • Jason I Jones - in Reply on Revelation 8:8
    Yes, it sounds like earth is being pelted with various objects that have made their way to our inner solar system.
  • Jesse - in Reply on Acts 19:2

    Amen! I don't think it's ever been used the same way as it was initially in Acts Chapter 2. Perhaps for a short time in the early conception of the church, but not today. That makes a lot of sense to me for a person going on a missionary trip to first learn the language of the area they are going to. But even that's not the true sense of "speaking in tongues." There are many who are becoming discouraged because they don't speak in tongues, and they are being told by their church leadership that tongues is evidence that they have the Holy Ghost and are saved. There are some who even doubt their own salvation because of it. And people are also being told that God will heal them, and that if they are not healed, it's because of their lack of faith. There's no such thing as a believer having a lack of faith. I know God never changes and that He can do whatever He wants. He can do all the same things with us that He did with the early believers if He so chooses. But is seems that today, man is choosing when and where these things happen. Some are even being "coached" on how to speak in tongues, and how to heal others.
  • Chris - in Reply on Acts 19:2
    Thanks Jesse for your comments. Indeed, what a great ministry that would be & for the furtherance of the Gospel if those with the gift of healing would minister to the many with sickness or near death. I wonder why such an opportunity is not seized upon - seems that use of the gift is being confined to the Church generally & not to the masses, as was part of the apostolic ministry.

    And true, has the real gift of Tongues ever been used today? As far as I know, those with this gift, still have to learn the language of their target people group when going out to foreign lands to serve; at least I've learnt this from those that I've met - they all had to go for language studies. When one sees all this, I sometimes can't blame the skeptics who say that all of the Holy Spirit's Gifts are now done away with (1 Corinthians 13:8-10). Yet, my sense is that if we make such a determination we may well err greatly & sin, so it's best to know that the Spirit still gives to each one "severally as He will" (1 Corinthians 12:11) & to rejoice when the gift is in operation for the evidential blessing of all.
  • Peter on Genesis 3:1
    i wish your warning signs stay long enough so that i could read them; and figure out what I am doing wrong.
  • Peter - in Reply on Genesis 3:1
    Good point however after he sinned; he didn't have God to talk to; and mind development depends on interactivity with other people as people can think. You can be interactive with animals also but they can not think.
  • Mishael on Baptism-Holy Spirit-Upper Room - in Reply on Matthew 3
    Someone needs to tell the Baptist Churches, huh?

    John the Baptist also baptized Jesus in water. As a dove the Holy Spirit pointed Jesus out. John prophesied, this is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased.

    If you go back into Discussions history pages you will see many pages on comment on this subject: through Jesus and all of his disciples and Paul.

    We cannot understand the Bible fully unless we have received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. That's why the Disciples were told by Jesus to await in the Upper Room.

    The Holy Spirit is the 3rd person of the Godhead. When He came into the upper room the guys saw tongues of fire. They had a unique supernatural experience that was witnessed by a lot of people. How do you know they were all Jews? This event flowed out into the streets, such was the excitement. I'm sure there were some Gentiles in the area. What are the odds on that? It says they heard their own languages coming from the disciples mouths. It was a city; all kinds of people were around to witness this and Hear it.

    It's recorded in the Bible. Jesus wanted this to happen just as it did. He said the Comforter would Come! The disciples KNEW this was the manifestation of what Jesus said! They were beyond JOY that Jesus was with them and in them in a very real way.

    They were not alone, fearful, anymore. They had Jesus with them and in them again.

    Look in your encyclopedic index in your Bible and look at the list of what all the Holy Spirits ministry is to believers! One: HE is our TEACHER who HELPS us rightly divide the WORD of TRUTH. (I AM the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE). We need the Holy Spirit; and His Baptism.

    If you are doubting about the gift of tongues; HE will not force it on you! It's for your edification. See? We have to learn from Him first. Be taught by Him. You have to study like a "student" and ask many many questions that are in your mind. And then you've got to get STILL before HIM and LISTEN to Him.
  • Tyrone Lathan - in Reply on Hebrews 10
    Amen ! god is in control.
  • Jesse - in Reply on Acts 19:2

    I agree that it is the same Spirit, whether we say Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost, same Spirit. And yes, the Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit is the gift. That is the only gift He promises to every believer. Did the Spirit raise Jesus from the dead, or did Jesus raise Himself? Jesus said I will raise up this temple. Acts Chapter 2 is a perfect example of tongues in its proper use. It would be equivalent to going to a foreign country, not knowing the language of that country, and all of a sudden we begin to witness to someone in their native tongue (language), a language that we don't know, but they understand perfectly what we are saying. It's a sign to them that what we are telling them is from God because there's no other way we could know their language so perfectly. It would be an awesome experience to be used the same way God used those in Acts Chapter 2. The problem is that's not what's happening in the church today.

    Every believer who receives Christ receives the same Spirit. But not every believer who receives His Spirit automatically starts speaking in tongues as evidence. In Acts 2, there was a reason why God used tongues. We are not to try and emulate that today.

    You've witnessed many things. Praise the Lord and all glory to God. He still heals, but not through the hands of men. Yes, God's Spirit is powerful, able to convict even the vilest of sinners and bring them to repentance, but I think we have to be cautious when it comes to "miracles" and "signs." How do we know it's all from God?

    Yes, the bible is alive and powerful. And there's nothing wrong with talking about receiving the Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit, and telling people that receiving His Spirit will change and transform every aspect and thought process in a believer's life. But it would be the same thing as telling someone to receive Christ. Same thing! It's when people are being told that there needs to be evidence of the Holy Ghost by them speaking in tongues. That I can't agree with.
  • Alice - in Reply on Psalms 37
    That is the Christian thing to do. But sometimes when we are groaning under the stress they put us through, we forget and just want them removed. You wished your enemy the best.
  • Alex on Psalms 46
    Alex to WR ABOUT WHO IS THE BRIDEGROOM. WR i said when they asked John about Christ and his disciples, John replied he that hath the bride is the bridegoom.Who was it that had the disciples fllowing him ? Jesus, John was trying to tell them that it was Christ who was the bridegroom.John was just a friend of the bridegroom he said. And he said that his joy was fulfilled just to hear his voice ( his words, his seeds,ya remember jesus said b/c i have spoken these words ( his seeds ) sorrows have filled your hearts impling a spritual pregnancyWhen a woman is in travail she has sorrows till the Child comes then her sorrows are turned into joy,impling a spritual birth,the Child is the H.G. thats ye he said that which is born of the spirit is spirit thats our new innerman the H.G. WHICH MEANS ANOTHER COMFORTER ANOTHER CHRIST BORN IS US VIA HIS SEED THE WORD, They don't call him the bridegroom for nothin,he has a seed to sow in us sinners ( humanity ) That was the great Promise that Christ wd be be multiplied as the stars of heaven thus the sower and his precious seed sown is us sinners thats y the new birth is so important. We must be bornagain of an incorruptible seed etc which is the seed of the bridegroom. ok gbu WR
  • Leon Trotsky on 1 Timothy 5:23
    All things in moderation. Even your interpretations of some thing written thousands of years ago . Let us not forget where the making of wine came from. It was Gods gift to Noah for saving the faithful.
  • Mishael - in Reply on Psalms 37
    I took the Lord at a His Word...

    Pray for your enemies. Bless those who curse you and abuse you.

    So I did :D. I asked God to give them a promotion. It works!
  • Mishael on 2nd Timothy 31-8 on Acts 19:2
    Here's some good scriptures for parents of kids rioting in our streets.

    Jesus is Love but I don't think he would approve what is happening in our cities.

    These scriptures were canonized into the Bible.

    If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:

    Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;

    And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.

    And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

    If they get hit with a rubber bullet... they should have been home (if living in parents basement), keeping it clean.

    2 Timothy 3:1-8

    This know also, that in the Last Days (Jude 18) perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, un-thankful, unholy!

    Please do read the other verses! So should society go soft on these people?
  • Mishael on Genesis 321 - in Reply on Genesis 3
    Genesis 3:21

    "Unto Adam also and to his WIFE did the Lord God MAKE COATS of skins and CLOTHED them".

    Anybody know some Hebrew? Translate MAKE.

    They weren't animalistic cave people. They were created human and had clothing. Adam was intelligent!! He named everything in Creation. He was anointed to dress and keep the garden; give names to creation. His job. He was employed and worked 6 days a week!
  • D.J. - in Reply on Philippians 4:17

    Page 2

    Another popular theory among Bible students concerning the flood of Noah's time is offered to explain the fact that not only did the different ethnic races of humans survive the flood, but that the "giants" (Genesis 6:4) that were upon the earth before the flood, also survived the flood. Giants are the product of fallen Angels mating with humans. They survived because Scripture states that they were upon the earth "also after that" (Genesis 6:4), hence, after the flood of Noah's time occurred. More proof lies in the fact that David fought the GIANT Goliath approximately 2500 years later. This theory explains that the flood of Noah's time was only localized to that particular area in which Noah and the rest of the extended families of Adam lived, and migrated into. The flood was sent unto this specific area that was originally inhabited by the offspring of the fallen angels (rendered "sons of God" in Genesis 6:2, 4), and their families. They initially populated this particular land because their instruction was to come expressly unto the daughters of Adam, to "take them wives of all which they chose" (Genesis 6:2), so that they could "bare children to them" (Genesis 6:4), thereby intermixing and corrupting the seed line of the Messiah to the point of no return. These "giants," and their offspring, eventually may have settled outside the flood area, and subsequently were not a part of that destruction, also look at Genesis 12:6, 13:7, 15:19 - 21.

    I believe that either, both, or a combination of these, and other possible scenarios that can be backed by Scripture, are the reason why all races are on the earth today.
  • Jesse - in Reply on Acts 19:2

    Great point! I did a study a few years back on the word "gifts" used in association with gifts of the Spirit. And many of the places in the N.T. that this word gift or gifts are used, the word gifts is in italics. I'm sure you know what the italics are. But I did a Greek study on the word gifts, and there were two different Greek words for our English word gift or gifts. One of those words had to do with an actual gift given to someone. And the other word had to do with expressions of God's Spirit. The only time the word was used as in reference to an actual gift that is given to believers; it was used to show that we are given the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost. That is the only gift that is actually given to us. The rest of the things mentioned: gifts of prophecy/healing/tongues etc. were simply expressions of God's Spirit.

    I do believe God still heals today. Human beings cannot heal anyone. And as far as tongues goes, if God chooses to cause a believer to speak in tongues, I believe He will do so. But like the scripture says, it's not for everyone. I tend to believe that it might even be rare that God causes a believer to speak in tongues. To this day I remain skeptical of those who are telling people that tongues is evidence that you are saved, and that all believers should speak in tongues as evidence that they have the Holy Ghost. I also do not trust these huge faith healing ministries. Some of these people have been exposed as being frauds. I think it would be nice if all these so-called "faith healers" and all those who claim to have the "gift" of healing if they would go to all the hospitals and heal all the sick people there, especially the children who are sick and dying.
  • D.J. - in Reply on Philippians 4:17

    Page 1

    I did not answer one of your initial questions concerning Noah and the Ark and who we are descendants from if only 8 souls aboard the Ark survived (1 Peter 3:20). Disclaimer: This might get lengthy and bring in other topics that may not be a part of mainstream Christian conclusions, so to speak. I am giving you a lot of info. I have a lot of time on my hands lately. Thanks for reading.

    There are various ideas about how all races are still on the earth if the flood of Noah's time destroyed all life. What does Scripture say?

    I would start by turning to Genesis 6:19. "And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female."

    Our Father is letting us know that not only were there the eight Adamic souls (1 Peter 3:20) instructed to enter the ark; Noah, his wife, his three sons, and their wives (Genesis 6:18), but the command by God was to also bring two of "every living thing of ALL FLESH," which would include the other races of humans, on to the ark with him. They were to be brought "male and female" so that a seed line or remnant of these different races would remain after the flood.

    The word "flesh" is derived from the Hebrew word "basar" (baw-sawr). It is used 27 times in the Book of Genesis. Only once is the word not identified with a human being in the Book of Genesis, look at Genesis 9:4. Of the 271 total times the word "flesh" is mentioned in the O.T., the Hebrew word "basar" (baw-sawr) is utilized for 257 of them, and is almost always representing human beings. When the word "flesh" does not represent man, it is easily identified as food; hence meat of some sort, whether living, raw, or cooked, as it does for the first time in (Exodus 12:8), also look at (Exodus 16:3, 8, 12, Leviticus 4:11, 18:7, etc.).
  • Norman Walker Butch - in Reply on 2 Timothy 1
    Jan, I feel the same way. I am a true believer and love God and Jesus to! I also fear God but I also love him just as much! I worry that I am not living up to his standards because I do not like to mingle with a bunch of people like in Church. Not that they are rude or anything I just am not the type. I read something about God almost every day and every time I do he lifts me up and he has answered my prayers and one prayer he answered for me in about 5 Min. Just blew me away and him and only him would have known what I needed and after that I could feel him when I was in certain places in the house and it was a wonderful feeling!! I am afraid I am not living up to his standards and it really does worry me! I do think if I went to Church I would get the answers I am lookin for. What I do is look back to John 3:16, and that really sums it up for me. I wish with all my heart I felt better about everything because it is the most important thing in your life and I want to go to Heaven. I am no where at all a bad person. Gods word is getting fulfilled very fast right now! Amen
  • Kathleen Gregory - in Reply on Matthew 3
    Hi Al

    I'll share some of my reasons regarding baptism

    Matthew 3:11 - I indeeed baptize you with WATER unto repentance

    Who is "I"? It is John the Baptist. What is he baptizing with? Water. Why? For 'repentance' (reviewing one's actions and feeling contrition or regret for past wrongs, which is accompanied by commitment to and actual actions that show and prove a change for the better.)

    Who was John baptizing? Jews..What were they repenting of? Dead WORKS

    (Matthew 3:11) But he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear:

    he shall baptize you with the HOLY GHOST (Spirit), and with FIRE

    Who was John talking about? Jesus .So Jesus baptizes us with the Holy Spirit and Fire (Fire is definitely not water)

    Then Ephesians 4:4-5 says:

    There is ONE body, and ONE Spirit, even as ye are called in ONE hope of your calling;

    ONE Lord, ONE faith, ONE baptism

    1 = 1 Which baptism is it? by water? or By Fire(= Holy Spirit)?

    If I have to pick ONE BAPTISM I choose Jesus'

    Now, WHO had John the Bap. been baptizing? JEWS

    Who did Jesus come for?

    The Jews (Matthew 15:24)

    Who were the apostles first called to go to? The Jews (Matthew 10:6)

    So, Jesus and John the Bap. were just dealing with the Jews at the time (In fact, until He rose again - Jesus' ministry was primarily to the Jews - He even referred to the Gentiles as 'dogs' (Matthew 15"26)

    How does Jesus save? By Grace=NO more WORKS

    How would the Jews get saved? By Grace, right?

    They needed to turn (def. of 'repentance') away from depending on their works(Hebrews 6"1) and depend solely on Jesus to be saved.

    John baptized The Jews w/water to show they had repented from depending on the Law

    The Gentiles never even knew about the law so they didn't need water baptism

    Jesus didn't need the thief on the cross to be baptized by water

    And so,water baptism is associated w/the Jews - & it was newly saved Jews who thought it was necc. for ALL, but Paul knew better (I Cor. 1:17)

    Sincer. KG

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