We only need compare the life of Abraham and of the king of Tyrus whose authority came from Satan. God allowed Abraham to walk the land and breadth of the land promised to him. "Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee."(Ge.13:17) God expected him to walk in faith in the world of the body and live accordingly Because God was his reward. His perfection came from his faith matching His. No more or no less. He was to be coheir with his Son.
The cherub was perfect till iniquity was found in him. The red dragon was perfect with seven crowns and seven heads, But ten horns established iniquity of pride and he was under judgment. On account of it the beast mentioned in Re.13 was in great wrath, knowing the time is short. " And power was given unto him to continue forty and two months." The rider on the white horse the Word of God shall take him and cohorts and throw them into the lake of fire. (Re.19:11-21) We are on the cusp of the end times.
Re.12:11
Overcomer
" And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."
'And they overcame him'
Who are they? Before answering it we look at the verse below. " Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them." The Holy Spirit is referring to the cloud of witnesses, and the angelic hosts who dwell in the heavens." Ye are blessed of the Lord which made heaven and earth./ The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men."(Ps.115:15-16) In short God blessed man with all spiritual blessing which require us reorient ourselves in His presence. We are negotiating two worlds at the same time so whosoever denies the world of Spirit having claim of him, is a liar. Truth is written in his inward parts and God has placed eternity in his heart. In refusing to accept the truth he is resisting God.
"And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads."
There was perfection in the cherub and it speaks of his sonship. "Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee."(Ez.28:15) As with Adam he was created and the Psalmist speaks of the angels being of different order. What is man? "For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour."(Ps.8:5). In his divine Will the man created had to be in a specific likeness for which his obedience was counted more. His Son settled for the body that He has prepared. It was thus God formed him from the ground and later breathed into his nostrils to make him a living soul. His glory and honour devolved from the faith of his dear Son who said, "Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,/ I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart." (Ps.40:7-8). The same faith was expected of Adam.
On the other hand the cherub was placed in heavenly places, "Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire."(Ez.28:14) God made angels, spirit and were perfect but he wanted much more glory and honor and he would wrest it if God does not. Haven't we heard this before? False teachers would force the tight-fisted God by their faith. Where did they learn from? Lucifer would want more holiness that God has, as it were. "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God." (Is.14:13)
"Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! "
Here the Spirit is giving us two nations, which according to the divine promise to Abraham have their position in heavenly places as well as in the wilderness God assures the patriarch, "But he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir./ And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be." (Ge.15:4-5) We have the two groups as summed up by the writer to the Hebrews, "Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable./ These all died in faith,"(He.11:12-13)
What are these dead in the presence of the Living God? Are not they redeemed by the living word? The everlasting gospel assures them everlasting life. It is what God promised the Son. So the Spirit sets the woman clothed with 12 stars ("and upon her head a crown of twelve stars") which is made of 4x3. The command number Three refers to the Son. While St Matthew sets down genealogy of Jesus to Abraham (Matt.1:17) gives us 42 generations. (14x3) God's promise to Abraham is backed by the eternal Word.
Inhabiters of the sea refer to wicked nations like troubled sea keep churning up wild outlandish policies at home and abroad. The beast really comes into his own after the saints are redeemed for the earth. He is a demagogue a populist. The Spirit tags the preceding chapter with number 42 which ties up the following chapter as well. The authority of the beast came from the dragon. The Spirit addresses the inhabiters of the land and the sea 'and woe to ye' sums up the great tribulation period. The beast as the proxy for the devil is 'come down unto you, having great wrath. In short the Spirit presents us a shape of things to come.
Having given this by way of introduction we have this time ' time times and a half' which the Spirit uses to describe the woman in the wilderness vis-a-vis the serpent. The dragon is cast out into the earth and he is epitome of evil, an angel gone rogue. This vision is set between the beast who kills the two witnesses from God and the beast and anti-christ appearing on the world stage.(Re.13). As with serpent in the Garden we have the beast confronting the woman in the wilderness. "The beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them."(Re.11:7)
In the book of Daniel we have a reference to the context, which shall explain this. Daniel asks "How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?" and the man clothed in linen answers,"And sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished."( Dan 12:6-7)
What this vision of St John tells us is about the end times. If we see bigotry and crude nationalism without responsibilities at the high place be certain that the beast has come and his downfall is about to happen.
"And all the world wondered after the beast./ And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?/And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months." (13:3-5)
The beast is proxy as the serpent was for Satan. The beast is given forty and two months, another way of saying the time, the times and a half.
"And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child./ And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent."
Before we get into the topic we shall brush up some facts in terms of history. Three and half years of the ministry of Jesus can be fixed and also give the date of crucifixion as April 3, AD. 33. The point we want to make is that death could not hold him back and he promised, "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am."( John 14:3-NIV ) He has his work while he is set down on the right hand of the Most high. He upholds all things by the word of his power is precisely according to the everlasting covenant. So what we considered so far was in terms of a base line that is one thousand two hundred and three score days. This applies to the world of the body where we speak of the Word become flesh, to give it a generic term we settle it to say,'in human likeness.' Being risen he shall never die again, "For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God."(Ro.6:9-10-ESV)
Before 'the hour' of judgment of Babylon is come we have this, "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,"(Re.14:6). Jesus Christ is the same yesterday today and forever. So we have four gospels covering both heaven and the earth. 'Lo, I am with you' (Matt.28:20) The everlasting gospel explains the word sent forth before the worlds began returning to God and it shall never return to him in void. This explains the command number 4 so Jesus was seen for 40 days after resurrection.
"And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, "
Here the Spirit uses the fall of man as the springboard to her redemption, which is indicated with the place where she is nourished for a time. Earthly ministry of Jesus is established there so when St Paul speaks of strong meat it is to gospel he is referring. "And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ."(1 Co.3:10)
The place prepared for her as God warned Eve is the ground from which man was taken and her conception shall be accompanied with sorrow. It is cursed because of their disobedience. "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children;"(Ge.3:16) Even so God has made provisions for them so Isaiah's quote 'Glorify ye God in the fires' (Is.24:15) is very relevant for us. Is the wilderness experience terrible if God is in control over you? ""Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak tenderly to her."(Ho.2:14) What we see in our times is the folly of man without God.
In v.14 we read of the two wings of a great eagle given to her so she could be led 'into her place as the Lord did with the nation of Israel. "You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself."(Ex.19:4-ESV). 'Brought you to myself'" is how the Spirit annotates the divine will in terms of sending his Son to the same cursed ground "In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them; in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; he lifted them up and carried them all the days of old."(Is.66:9)
This is where the significance of clothing Adam and Eve comes in focus. "Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them."(Ge.3:22)
"Thank you I will have to investigate this further...
Below is a little of what I found on the subject.
The terms "Book of Life" and "Lamb's Book of Life" are used in Christian theology to refer to a concept found in the Bible. However, it's important to note that there is some variation in how different theologians and denominations interpret and use these terms.
1. **Book of Life:** The "Book of Life" is a term used in several places in the Bible, including the Old and New Testaments. It generally refers to a heavenly record or register in which the names of the righteous, the faithful, or those who belong to God are written. For example, in the Old Testament, Exodus 32:32-33 mentions the Book of Life. In the New Testament, Revelation 20:15 mentions the Book of Life, which is associated with the final judgment. Those whose names are found in the Book of Life are seen as those who will inherit eternal life.
2. **Lamb's Book of Life:** The term "Lamb's Book of Life" specifically appears in the Book of Revelation in the New Testament. It is often associated with the idea that those who belong to Christ, the Lamb of God, have their names written in this book. Revelation 13:8 and Revelation 21:27 are the primary verses where the Lamb's Book of Life is mentioned. Those who have their names in the Lamb's Book of Life are considered to be the redeemed and saved.
In some theological interpretations, these terms are used interchangeably to refer to the same concept, while in others, they are seen as distinct but related concepts. The interpretation of the Book of Life and the Lamb's Book of Life can vary among different Christian denominations and theological traditions.
In summary, both terms refer to the idea of a divine record in which the names of the saved or righteous are written. The specifics of how these books are understood and their significance in salvation can vary depending on theological perspectives."
I would say no, not at all. Revelation 3:5 says, "He that overcomes." That's a Present Participle. It should read "To the one who is overcoming, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."
The Old Testament tells us there's more than one book ( Exodus 32:32-33, Daniel 12:1-2, Daniel 12:7-10, Psalm 69:28).
There's the book of life which has listed in it everybody that has received human life. And then there's the book of the Lamb, those who belong to Christ.
In the book of life, if a person rejects Christ, their name is removed from the book of life as if they've never been born. They're gone!
But no one is ever blotted out of the Lamb's book of life.
If you go back into the Old Testament and you study from those references, it will show you that there's more than one book. And the Jews knew that.
It's not that God has books up there. But it's just a human example or an illustration that God knows everything, all the people that have been born, and all the people that belong to Christ.
He say I will not blot out his name out of the book of life. And I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Jesus said that He would do that.
A person whose name is in the Lamb's book of life will never be blotted out. That's how permanent salvation is!
This parable speaks of those who have never been born of Gods Spirit. One who has been born from above is one who Jesus knows. This parable of the foolish virgins describes a person who has never received Christ, has never been born of His Spirit.
The Lord knows His sheep, all those who belong to Him. He will not lose one. I agree with you wholeheartedly. A true believer, (one who has been born of Gods Spirit) will never hear the words "depart from me, I never knew you."
I am glad that your cataract surgery was successful. Even though your sight is not totally restored, you can see distance now without glasses. But most people our age do need glasses for near vision. I need cataract surgery on both eyes. I will most likely schedule these surgeries this year. I have worn glasses since the fourth grade, so to be able to see distances without glasses will be amazing for me.
I pray that your eyesight will stabilize and that you get used to the vision adjustments you need to make at this time in your life.
The kingdom of heaven here is the sphere of profession, as in Mt 13. All alike have lamps, but two facts fix the real status of the foolish virgins: They "took no oil," and the Lord said, "I know you not." Oil is the symbol of the Holy Spirit, and "If any man have not the spirit of Christ, he is none of his" Rom 8:9
Nor could the Lord say to any believer, however unspiritual, "I know you not."
Speaking in finish line, what does the Word of GOD say prophetically? Daniel 12:12 - Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. (that is 45 DAYS after the period of the 2nd half of the last week be finished-1260 days-plus a gap of 30 days, according to the calendar). Get ready, "For we are saved by hope- Romans 8:24- but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not- Romans 8:25-, then do we with patience wait for it. By the way, "hope maketh not ashamed (hope does not bring confusion); because the love of GOD is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit which is given unto us.
May our Lord GOD bless and keep us, and give us His protection
Amen
P.S.
Now, in the TURN of sixth GOD's Day to the seventh and last Day, or seventh and last millennium, we are living in the beginning of sorrows, so there will be only and only severe punishiments in the world of Devil as a whole (JESUS listed them- Matthew 24:3-8 and they fulfill LITERALLY), and the true believers will suffer a lot as JESUS warned us- Matthew 24:9-14. And the worst will happen successively in sequence- Matthew 24:15-25-.
Let's remember: Our GOD CURSED the Devil, and JESUS has already CURSED BY WRITTEN the betrayers- Matthew 25:41&46-, but "
upon the earth there be distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea (peoples, and nations, and multitudes of all tongues)and the waves(generations) roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which ARE COMING on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken- Luke 21:25-26 combined with Romans 2:9&11 -->9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 11 For there is no respect of persons with GOD.
Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? Isaiah 33:14
First I have to make a confession of all the books of the entire bible I am the weakest on the book of Revelation.
My question is having this verse in revelation:
Revelation 3:5 (KJV) 5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Doesn't that cause a real issue for the "once saved always saved" advocates?
I have always stated that in the end; God has a certain number of people that enter hell; and a set number in heaven and since God is fair and an impartial judge ( Romans 2:11) that no one will be able to prove Him wrong; or even want to question the final verdict. The wicked will be speechless and the righteous rejoice forever. This settles any issues with OSAS or Predestination for that matter; and even free will. There are those who hate the light and love darkness ( John 3:19-21).
There are as I mentioned before HUNDREDS of verses that on the surface may appear to render the OSAS concept void; but when we consider the context; the concluding meanings of the text and other factors more often than not it appears to support this idea. Again the scriptures that indate there is no longer any condemnation ( Romans 8:1) for believers; we have "passed from death to life ( John 5:24); will never die ( John 11:25) and a plethora of other supporting texts shows eternal security for a TRUE believer in Christ.
My emphasis was on the FRUIT of one's life rather than just what is verbalized. One's heart determines their course of action; the righteous is contrasted with the wicked shown in passages such as Mark 7:20-23. Christ for the wicked is a means to an end; whether it be financial security (such as for those who buy into the prosperity gospel or are out to borrow money and fleece those who are called to follow passages such as Luke 6:30.) Christ for the righteous on the other hand is God in the flesh and we are compelled through the Spirit and a new heart to serve with love and obedience (See John 14:15 and read rest of the chapter for further context). Again; loving our enemies and dying for them isn't something natural man will do (see Romans 5:7-9). If we understand the indebtedness we have to Christ and not just a band aid for our sin behavior but a death sentence to our SIN NATURE through the new life in Christ we are saved.
Amen well said; We are in a race, and as it is said "Let us run with patience the race that is set before us". "In your patience possess ye your souls". "Here is the patience and the faith of the saints." This race has a finish line, and we cannot come up short, we must cross this finish line. "So run, that ye may obtain." The prize is not given until we cross the finish line and are told, "Well done thou good and faithful servant".
You cannot be saved from DEATH until God sends his angles to HARVEST the SEED.
ONLY mature SEED are harvested, immature SEED are scattered to the wind as is chaff.
Fruit produces SEED, the fruit never look like the SEED, the SEED always looks like the SEED that was planted.
Luke 11:8 Now the PARABLE is this: the SEED is the word of God.
John 1:14 ..... and the word (SEED) was made flesh.
Hebrews 9:28 So Christ (the SEED) was once offered for the sins of many; and unto them that look for him (TRUTH, Christ is truth) he (the SEED) shall APPEAR the SECOND TIME.
Matthew 24:30 Then SHALL APPEAR the sign (the image oft he SEED) of the son of man in heaven (IN YOU).... the son of man COMING in the CLOUDS of heaven (IN YOU).
Colossians 1:27 .... this mystery ..... Christ in YOU ......
Matthew 12:28 But if I CAST OUT DEVILS by the Spirit (TRUTH) of God; then the Kingdom of God has COME TO YOU.
In my last post I ended with a discussion of the legalism of the Pharisees; as well as those that have what I call "sloppy Agape" or attempt to gloss over sin and use grace and forgiveness of all past; present and future sins as their excuse. In both of these cases at least for those who remain in a church fellowship we see an idolization of the Pastor most often who no doubt is contributing to one or the other error mentioned here. A true believer would move on if there is heresy coming from one of their own (see Acts 20:30). Justifying self righteousness is aided; of course when someone is financially well to do and credits the church leadership that promises "sowing a seed" will add to prosperity for all (whether or not they are giving a large sum themselves). The opposite of this are those widows and old ladies who are fleeced to their last dollar mesmerized by a Pastor who promises health and happiness with obedience and warns against not doing this despite what common sense would otherwise show.
This first paragraph assumes corrupt leadership. Another sign of our faith is respecting elders and pastors who ARE feeding the flock and tending the sheep properly. (see 1 Timothy 5:17). Disrespect of such authority often mainfests in impatience if a sermon runs 5 minutes late; frustration when genuine financial needs are brought up; lack of participation and interest in prayer and doing service projects in the church and for the comunity; etc. Beyond this; the admonitions of 1 John about loving the brethren are ignored (see 1 John 4:20). Such parishioners will sometimes leave; and we shouldn't strive to force them to stay.
There are others attempting to spread false doctrines which were of course never part of the true flock (see 1 John 2:19). They may leave but if not need to be dealt with lest they be a cancer that affects the whole flock (see warning in Galatians 5:9).
OSAS. True spiritual gifts vs false manifestations.
1 Corinthians 2:14 says: "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."
Deuteronomy 32:28-29 states "For they are a nation void of counsel, neither is there any understanding in them. O that they were wise, that they understood this, that they would consider their latter end!"
There are many reasons people may go to church and not be believers; a general statement would be there are many confessors but less who are POSSESSORS of the Holy Spirit. Focusing on earlier posts discussing how Satan focuses his attacks on the church we need in general to see how Satan is not only opposed to God but comes as s substitute; and mimics every spiritual gift in outward manifestations that may appear to be the same to the undiscerning (such as listed in 1 Corinthians 2:14 above).
As to spiritual manifestations; the "Kundalini" experience often mimics what are true spiritual experiences. We see mention in past revivals of people shaking or trembling at His Word which is scriptural ( Isaiah 66:2). But certain ritualaistic manifestations
cause abandon (usually coiling up like a snake on the floor). Godly sorrow certainly can cause weeping as was reported in many revivals from the past; uncontrollable laughter however is not something that seems edifying. Tongues of angels certainly can be imitated by demons as evidenced by experiences of those in the occult.
In looking at these "charismatic" gifts; we shoiuldn't ignore the "religious" spirit which involves endless ritual and legalistic practices that exceed the scope of the Word. The Pharisees added things with their traditions ( Mark 7:13 and other verses) and this was associated with pride; self righteous and leading others astray. (see Matthew 23:15). The opposite of this is using grace as a license to sin which Romans 6:1 warns about.
"In our POST-Feminist Western culture where women are above men. I have often heard the scriptures regarding wives submitting to their husbands being "spiritualized." Rather than taking it at face value, they attempt to either "spiritualize" the passage such as "Oh, it means the man is the spiritual head." Other times they will attempt to merge two periscopes of scripture such as verse 21 which belongs to the prior periscope and attempt to apply it in the marriage periscope. Claiming oh it means "submit to one another in marriage."
Yet the command is found yet again in Colossians 3:18 (KJV) 18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.
2 Peter 3:16 (KJV) 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Yes, twisting scripture to their own destruction...
Walk in Wisdom
Ephesians 5:15-21 (KJV) 16 through verse 21(periscope) verse 21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
Marriage--Christ and the Church
Ephesians 5:22-28 (KJV)
22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself."
It is like the 5 unwise virgins who were left in the (spiritual) darkness (darkness means sin) because they had not taken any care in their lives to meet Jesus, they were busy doing other things. Careless lives. They didn't take their salvation seriously.
So why Jesus says he doesn't know them and never knew them? It is an exxageration of speech. He tells them and us, and He wants to make sure that we understand it that if we don't strive to live righteously untill the end no matter how successful spiritualy we were once, the door of the Kingdom of God will be closed to us. It is like Jesus never knew us, same ending as the rest of the sinful world. There isn't any possible security in a sinful life for the children of God.
Besides why would He know them. After their death their names were erased from the Book of Life.
Rev. 3:5, "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."
3. Not only they know Him but it seems they were members of the church, they had spiritual gifts which they exercised. It is not logical to assume that people outside the church could have spir. gifts (you mentioned Judas as an example that that can happen). Can it really? Have you read in the Bible or have you met in the world unbelievers that were given gifts, like prophesying, casting out demons, healing? The only case I have read in the Bible were the sons of that priest who tried to cast out a demon and were almost killed by that demon. Acts 19:13-16. What did the demon say to them? That he didn't know them. The devils don't know and don't obey anybody else apart from the children of God. Besides the gifts are for the benefit of the church, not the world. Prophesying is for the edification of the church not of the world, anyway how could that be? To whom and what for one is prophesying to the world? Personally I have never heard or read anywhere about such a thing.
4. They are workers of iniquity. Corrupt lives.
5. Jesus doesn't know them.
Now 3. and 5. seem to be in contrust. How is it possible that they are saved and Jesus doesn't know them?
To understand that we have to see what the purpose of that teaching is, what Jesus is trying to tell them. He is trying to tell them that it is not adequate to believe in Him and get saved initially, they have to live a pure life and not continue or go back to their sinful wordly lives. They have to produce a fruit. Production of fruit is not an automatic process. One has to want to have a fruit and strive for it. Strive to live a righteous life with God providing them His Spirit to enable them to have a fruit. Is it possible to christians to not have any fruit in their lives?. An answer is given in the parable of the Sower. It is the 3rd case, as you said the pleasures, riches of this world etc, etc choke the seed and so those christians become fruitless.
I had decided not to participate any more in debates, especially about the OSAS doctrine, but I think I can not avoid it. I have seen that there are certain theological "inventions" of those who accept the OSAS belief. Firstly the one already known, that is the idea of "not truly saved" and now as I read your post, the idea of "accepting Christ but not knowing Him", am I wrong?
OK lets start from the begining. When is one saved? When he accepts Christ or when he gets to know Him? Definitely when he accepts Jesus. What does that mean? It means that as one hears the Word of God and that Word gets inside his heart (this is the seed that eventually goes inside the good soil) that Word causes him to repent and follow a new path in His life. Next, God regenerates him enabling him to follow that path. Can we agree on that? What does it mean that we know Christ? This is a process that takes a long time in our lives. It doesn't occur only when we read about Jesus and His teachings in the Bible but it mainly occurs as we follow Him in our lives and we get experience with Him along that path. This does not occur overnight, it is a lenthy process. So we can not claim that we are saved when we get to know Christ. In such a case it would take years to aquire salvation.
Let go to Matthew 7:21-23
" 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Lets gather all the points of interest in that teaching.
1. It occurs at the Final Judgement
2. Jesus talks to people who know Him or about Him, they call Him Lord.
In reply to DGJOT: I agree with the mixing comment except about Jews and Gentiles. The Bible tells us that we Gentiles were grafted in. We were grafted into the main body just like a tree cutting can be grafted into the main tree and then the graft becomes part of the whole.
You were given your MANTLE at the RESURRECTION of YOU and Christ; TOGETHER, you were joined together as ONE by his resurrection,you are now the bride of Christ, flesh of his flesh, bone of his bone, the NEW CREATION
You are know at the marriage supper of the LAMB, you FLESH (your carnal mind) is being DESTROYED by the TRUTH of God's word.
Revelation 19:9 Blessed are those that are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb .....
Revelation 19:18 That ye (those called to the marriage supper) may EAT the FLESH of mighty men..... the carnal mind that against the TRUTH of God's word.
Isaiah 9:20 ...they (the carnal minded) shall EAT EVERY MAN the FLESH of his own RIGHT ARM ......
The ANOINTING IN YOU will teach you ALL THINGS ---- 1 John 2:27 -----
The warning of Jesus to seven churches include these false brethren. For example this v. "Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:"(Re.3:17) He already knows who are his and who are not. For those incorrigible we have this warning,"Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time./ They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."( 1 John 2:18-19)
Re.12:6-14
Into The Wilderness
"And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, "
Here the Spirit uses the fall of man as the springboard to her redemption, which is indicated with the place where she is nourished for a time. Earthly ministry of Jesus is established there so when St Paul speaks of strong meat it is to gospel he is referring. "And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ."(1 Co.3:10)
The place prepared for her as God warned Eve is the ground from which man was taken and her conception shall be accompanied with sorrow. It is cursed because of their disobedience. "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children;"(Ge.3:16) Even so God has made provisions for them so Isaiah's quote 'Glorify ye God in the fires' (Is.24:15) is very relevant for us. Is the wilderness experience terrible if God is in control over you? ""Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak tenderly to her."(Ho.2:14) What we see in our times is the folly of man without God.
This is set in reconstituted time and consequentially skips the earth timescale with which the birth of Jesus was set down. "When Cyrenius was governor of Syria" etc., ( Luke 2:1-6.) What we read in this verse,"And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne," ix a summing up the divine Will regarding his Son. (12:5) The rod of iron helps us recall the quote from the Psalm 2. The reconstituted time leads us to the new heaven and new earth.
12:7-12 The War in Heaven and the Fall
The Angelic revolt is not intended for us so the Spirit skips its origin but its fall out has consequences. Ge.6 1-3 for example. Jude v.6 also refers to the fallen angels. As St Paul warns us, "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."(Ep.6:12-NIV) From the above it is evident that we consider our lives interfacing with two worlds at the same time. "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light."(2 Co.11:14)
The heresies with which false ministers preach another gospel and another Christ have their consequences. Satan sins from the beginning, "And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth."(12:4) ( Dan 12:3) The gospel of God has a direct reference to the baseline mentioned in the earlier post. These who have fallen from the cloud of witnesses, from the world of the Spirit are those have become slave to another gospel and Christ. It is against them the number 'a thousand two hundred and threescore days' is held as a warning.
The woman called before the worlds began, the holy family of saints have a place, this world of the Spirit is called the heavenly places, Blessedness is in the two great lights for signs, the sun of righteousness and the moon, grace of the word keeping her position.(Ep.1:3). 12 stars denote perfection as an adornment. When she loses her place she loses them all.
Man-child ('who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron') refers to Christ and the elect. The number of days refers to three and half years which is the baseline (the ministry of Jesus on the earth) which governs the reconstituted time.
vv. 3-4 "And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads./And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth." As with God setting up the woman in heavenly places the red dragon also appears, The devil sins from the beginning so we have to understand the running feud between the holy family of God and the dragon runs parallel.
Re.12:7 -12 The War in Heaven and the fall
"And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."
Re.12:10-17 The Earth
"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."
12:1-6 The Woman:
The Spirit presents her as the bride of Christ as intended in the divine Will. "And brought her unto the man." (Ge.2:22) With this in mind the Genesis quote must be set against this Pauline quote, "For I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ". (2 Co.11:2).
In order to understand the manner the Holy Spirit has organized this chapter from the Book of the Revelation shall of immense help to follow the intent of the Spirit, which is evident in its final form. It is from God to man so man has to follow the lead. It is the God document and wisdom with which anyone may unlock it is by wisdom from above and it is faith that is demanded of the reader. Let there be no mistake on that score.
As with dreams and visions in any context,- secular or otherwise it has all elements to explain the manner the world of the Spirit interface with the world of the Spirit. The difference between our workaday world and this is same as the bow set in heaven after the great flood. The rainbow ever since throws up a sign and it is anchored on the everlasting covenant. God shall 'remember' as the Spirit explains it. "And it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth,"and it concerns the everlasting covenant which in fact has his Son implied. In the numbers and period of time given in the vision of St John we see how he is presented.(Ge.8:13-16)
we shall at the present consider only the time element and significance of numbers. One important clue is the divisions of heavenly place where the woman stands and 'the remnant of her seed' warring with the dragon are done away so the place prepared of God and her seed warring with the dragon overlap each other.
Here are three major divisions
Re.12:1-6 The Woman
"And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days."
The woman called before the worlds began, the holy family of saints have a place, this world of the Spirit is called the heavenly places, Blessedness is in the two great lights for signs, the sun of righteousness and the moon, grace of the word keeping her position.(Ep.1:3).
(2 of 7)
We only need compare the life of Abraham and of the king of Tyrus whose authority came from Satan. God allowed Abraham to walk the land and breadth of the land promised to him. "Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee."(Ge.13:17) God expected him to walk in faith in the world of the body and live accordingly Because God was his reward. His perfection came from his faith matching His. No more or no less. He was to be coheir with his Son.
The cherub was perfect till iniquity was found in him. The red dragon was perfect with seven crowns and seven heads, But ten horns established iniquity of pride and he was under judgment. On account of it the beast mentioned in Re.13 was in great wrath, knowing the time is short. " And power was given unto him to continue forty and two months." The rider on the white horse the Word of God shall take him and cohorts and throw them into the lake of fire. (Re.19:11-21) We are on the cusp of the end times.
Re.12:11
Overcomer
" And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."
'And they overcame him'
Who are they? Before answering it we look at the verse below. " Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them." The Holy Spirit is referring to the cloud of witnesses, and the angelic hosts who dwell in the heavens." Ye are blessed of the Lord which made heaven and earth./ The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men."(Ps.115:15-16) In short God blessed man with all spiritual blessing which require us reorient ourselves in His presence. We are negotiating two worlds at the same time so whosoever denies the world of Spirit having claim of him, is a liar. Truth is written in his inward parts and God has placed eternity in his heart. In refusing to accept the truth he is resisting God.
(1 of 7)
Bible Study: Re.12:3
The Red Dragon
"And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads."
There was perfection in the cherub and it speaks of his sonship. "Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee."(Ez.28:15) As with Adam he was created and the Psalmist speaks of the angels being of different order. What is man? "For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour."(Ps.8:5). In his divine Will the man created had to be in a specific likeness for which his obedience was counted more. His Son settled for the body that He has prepared. It was thus God formed him from the ground and later breathed into his nostrils to make him a living soul. His glory and honour devolved from the faith of his dear Son who said, "Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,/ I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart." (Ps.40:7-8). The same faith was expected of Adam.
On the other hand the cherub was placed in heavenly places, "Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire."(Ez.28:14) God made angels, spirit and were perfect but he wanted much more glory and honor and he would wrest it if God does not. Haven't we heard this before? False teachers would force the tight-fisted God by their faith. Where did they learn from? Lucifer would want more holiness that God has, as it were. "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God." (Is.14:13)
(4 of 4)
"Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! "
Here the Spirit is giving us two nations, which according to the divine promise to Abraham have their position in heavenly places as well as in the wilderness God assures the patriarch, "But he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir./ And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be." (Ge.15:4-5) We have the two groups as summed up by the writer to the Hebrews, "Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable./ These all died in faith,"(He.11:12-13)
What are these dead in the presence of the Living God? Are not they redeemed by the living word? The everlasting gospel assures them everlasting life. It is what God promised the Son. So the Spirit sets the woman clothed with 12 stars ("and upon her head a crown of twelve stars") which is made of 4x3. The command number Three refers to the Son. While St Matthew sets down genealogy of Jesus to Abraham (Matt.1:17) gives us 42 generations. (14x3) God's promise to Abraham is backed by the eternal Word.
Inhabiters of the sea refer to wicked nations like troubled sea keep churning up wild outlandish policies at home and abroad. The beast really comes into his own after the saints are redeemed for the earth. He is a demagogue a populist. The Spirit tags the preceding chapter with number 42 which ties up the following chapter as well. The authority of the beast came from the dragon. The Spirit addresses the inhabiters of the land and the sea 'and woe to ye' sums up the great tribulation period. The beast as the proxy for the devil is 'come down unto you, having great wrath. In short the Spirit presents us a shape of things to come.
(3 of 4)
Having given this by way of introduction we have this time ' time times and a half' which the Spirit uses to describe the woman in the wilderness vis-a-vis the serpent. The dragon is cast out into the earth and he is epitome of evil, an angel gone rogue. This vision is set between the beast who kills the two witnesses from God and the beast and anti-christ appearing on the world stage.(Re.13). As with serpent in the Garden we have the beast confronting the woman in the wilderness. "The beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them."(Re.11:7)
In the book of Daniel we have a reference to the context, which shall explain this. Daniel asks "How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?" and the man clothed in linen answers,"And sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished."( Dan 12:6-7)
What this vision of St John tells us is about the end times. If we see bigotry and crude nationalism without responsibilities at the high place be certain that the beast has come and his downfall is about to happen.
"And all the world wondered after the beast./ And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?/And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months." (13:3-5)
The beast is proxy as the serpent was for Satan. The beast is given forty and two months, another way of saying the time, the times and a half.
Ge.12:13-14
From The Face Of The Serpent
"And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child./ And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent."
Before we get into the topic we shall brush up some facts in terms of history. Three and half years of the ministry of Jesus can be fixed and also give the date of crucifixion as April 3, AD. 33. The point we want to make is that death could not hold him back and he promised, "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am."( John 14:3-NIV ) He has his work while he is set down on the right hand of the Most high. He upholds all things by the word of his power is precisely according to the everlasting covenant. So what we considered so far was in terms of a base line that is one thousand two hundred and three score days. This applies to the world of the body where we speak of the Word become flesh, to give it a generic term we settle it to say,'in human likeness.' Being risen he shall never die again, "For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God."(Ro.6:9-10-ESV)
Before 'the hour' of judgment of Babylon is come we have this, "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,"(Re.14:6). Jesus Christ is the same yesterday today and forever. So we have four gospels covering both heaven and the earth. 'Lo, I am with you' (Matt.28:20) The everlasting gospel explains the word sent forth before the worlds began returning to God and it shall never return to him in void. This explains the command number 4 so Jesus was seen for 40 days after resurrection.
Re.12:6-14
Into The Wilderness (1 of 4)
"And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, "
Here the Spirit uses the fall of man as the springboard to her redemption, which is indicated with the place where she is nourished for a time. Earthly ministry of Jesus is established there so when St Paul speaks of strong meat it is to gospel he is referring. "And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ."(1 Co.3:10)
The place prepared for her as God warned Eve is the ground from which man was taken and her conception shall be accompanied with sorrow. It is cursed because of their disobedience. "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children;"(Ge.3:16) Even so God has made provisions for them so Isaiah's quote 'Glorify ye God in the fires' (Is.24:15) is very relevant for us. Is the wilderness experience terrible if God is in control over you? ""Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak tenderly to her."(Ho.2:14) What we see in our times is the folly of man without God.
In v.14 we read of the two wings of a great eagle given to her so she could be led 'into her place as the Lord did with the nation of Israel. "You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself."(Ex.19:4-ESV). 'Brought you to myself'" is how the Spirit annotates the divine will in terms of sending his Son to the same cursed ground "In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them; in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; he lifted them up and carried them all the days of old."(Is.66:9)
This is where the significance of clothing Adam and Eve comes in focus. "Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them."(Ge.3:22)
Below is a little of what I found on the subject.
The terms "Book of Life" and "Lamb's Book of Life" are used in Christian theology to refer to a concept found in the Bible. However, it's important to note that there is some variation in how different theologians and denominations interpret and use these terms.
1. **Book of Life:** The "Book of Life" is a term used in several places in the Bible, including the Old and New Testaments. It generally refers to a heavenly record or register in which the names of the righteous, the faithful, or those who belong to God are written. For example, in the Old Testament, Exodus 32:32-33 mentions the Book of Life. In the New Testament, Revelation 20:15 mentions the Book of Life, which is associated with the final judgment. Those whose names are found in the Book of Life are seen as those who will inherit eternal life.
2. **Lamb's Book of Life:** The term "Lamb's Book of Life" specifically appears in the Book of Revelation in the New Testament. It is often associated with the idea that those who belong to Christ, the Lamb of God, have their names written in this book. Revelation 13:8 and Revelation 21:27 are the primary verses where the Lamb's Book of Life is mentioned. Those who have their names in the Lamb's Book of Life are considered to be the redeemed and saved.
In some theological interpretations, these terms are used interchangeably to refer to the same concept, while in others, they are seen as distinct but related concepts. The interpretation of the Book of Life and the Lamb's Book of Life can vary among different Christian denominations and theological traditions.
In summary, both terms refer to the idea of a divine record in which the names of the saved or righteous are written. The specifics of how these books are understood and their significance in salvation can vary depending on theological perspectives."
I would say no, not at all. Revelation 3:5 says, "He that overcomes." That's a Present Participle. It should read "To the one who is overcoming, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."
The Old Testament tells us there's more than one book ( Exodus 32:32-33, Daniel 12:1-2, Daniel 12:7-10, Psalm 69:28).
There's the book of life which has listed in it everybody that has received human life. And then there's the book of the Lamb, those who belong to Christ.
In the book of life, if a person rejects Christ, their name is removed from the book of life as if they've never been born. They're gone!
But no one is ever blotted out of the Lamb's book of life.
If you go back into the Old Testament and you study from those references, it will show you that there's more than one book. And the Jews knew that.
It's not that God has books up there. But it's just a human example or an illustration that God knows everything, all the people that have been born, and all the people that belong to Christ.
He say I will not blot out his name out of the book of life. And I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Jesus said that He would do that.
A person whose name is in the Lamb's book of life will never be blotted out. That's how permanent salvation is!
God Bless!!!
This parable speaks of those who have never been born of Gods Spirit. One who has been born from above is one who Jesus knows. This parable of the foolish virgins describes a person who has never received Christ, has never been born of His Spirit.
The Lord knows His sheep, all those who belong to Him. He will not lose one. I agree with you wholeheartedly. A true believer, (one who has been born of Gods Spirit) will never hear the words "depart from me, I never knew you."
Blessings to you!
I am glad that your cataract surgery was successful. Even though your sight is not totally restored, you can see distance now without glasses. But most people our age do need glasses for near vision. I need cataract surgery on both eyes. I will most likely schedule these surgeries this year. I have worn glasses since the fourth grade, so to be able to see distances without glasses will be amazing for me.
I pray that your eyesight will stabilize and that you get used to the vision adjustments you need to make at this time in your life.
Nor could the Lord say to any believer, however unspiritual, "I know you not."
Speaking in finish line, what does the Word of GOD say prophetically? Daniel 12:12 - Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. (that is 45 DAYS after the period of the 2nd half of the last week be finished-1260 days-plus a gap of 30 days, according to the calendar). Get ready, "For we are saved by hope- Romans 8:24- but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not- Romans 8:25-, then do we with patience wait for it. By the way, "hope maketh not ashamed (hope does not bring confusion); because the love of GOD is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit which is given unto us.
May our Lord GOD bless and keep us, and give us His protection
Amen
P.S.
Now, in the TURN of sixth GOD's Day to the seventh and last Day, or seventh and last millennium, we are living in the beginning of sorrows, so there will be only and only severe punishiments in the world of Devil as a whole (JESUS listed them- Matthew 24:3-8 and they fulfill LITERALLY), and the true believers will suffer a lot as JESUS warned us- Matthew 24:9-14. And the worst will happen successively in sequence- Matthew 24:15-25-.
Let's remember: Our GOD CURSED the Devil, and JESUS has already CURSED BY WRITTEN the betrayers- Matthew 25:41&46-, but "
upon the earth there be distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea (peoples, and nations, and multitudes of all tongues)and the waves(generations) roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which ARE COMING on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken- Luke 21:25-26 combined with Romans 2:9&11 -->9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 11 For there is no respect of persons with GOD.
Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? Isaiah 33:14
My question is having this verse in revelation:
Revelation 3:5 (KJV) 5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Doesn't that cause a real issue for the "once saved always saved" advocates?
Matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come
Read and Believe.
I have always stated that in the end; God has a certain number of people that enter hell; and a set number in heaven and since God is fair and an impartial judge ( Romans 2:11) that no one will be able to prove Him wrong; or even want to question the final verdict. The wicked will be speechless and the righteous rejoice forever. This settles any issues with OSAS or Predestination for that matter; and even free will. There are those who hate the light and love darkness ( John 3:19-21).
There are as I mentioned before HUNDREDS of verses that on the surface may appear to render the OSAS concept void; but when we consider the context; the concluding meanings of the text and other factors more often than not it appears to support this idea. Again the scriptures that indate there is no longer any condemnation ( Romans 8:1) for believers; we have "passed from death to life ( John 5:24); will never die ( John 11:25) and a plethora of other supporting texts shows eternal security for a TRUE believer in Christ.
My emphasis was on the FRUIT of one's life rather than just what is verbalized. One's heart determines their course of action; the righteous is contrasted with the wicked shown in passages such as Mark 7:20-23. Christ for the wicked is a means to an end; whether it be financial security (such as for those who buy into the prosperity gospel or are out to borrow money and fleece those who are called to follow passages such as Luke 6:30.) Christ for the righteous on the other hand is God in the flesh and we are compelled through the Spirit and a new heart to serve with love and obedience (See John 14:15 and read rest of the chapter for further context). Again; loving our enemies and dying for them isn't something natural man will do (see Romans 5:7-9). If we understand the indebtedness we have to Christ and not just a band aid for our sin behavior but a death sentence to our SIN NATURE through the new life in Christ we are saved.
Amen well said; We are in a race, and as it is said "Let us run with patience the race that is set before us". "In your patience possess ye your souls". "Here is the patience and the faith of the saints." This race has a finish line, and we cannot come up short, we must cross this finish line. "So run, that ye may obtain." The prize is not given until we cross the finish line and are told, "Well done thou good and faithful servant".
God bless,
RLW
What is one SAVED from?
DEATH
You cannot be saved from DEATH until God sends his angles to HARVEST the SEED.
ONLY mature SEED are harvested, immature SEED are scattered to the wind as is chaff.
Fruit produces SEED, the fruit never look like the SEED, the SEED always looks like the SEED that was planted.
Luke 11:8 Now the PARABLE is this: the SEED is the word of God.
John 1:14 ..... and the word (SEED) was made flesh.
Hebrews 9:28 So Christ (the SEED) was once offered for the sins of many; and unto them that look for him (TRUTH, Christ is truth) he (the SEED) shall APPEAR the SECOND TIME.
Matthew 24:30 Then SHALL APPEAR the sign (the image oft he SEED) of the son of man in heaven (IN YOU).... the son of man COMING in the CLOUDS of heaven (IN YOU).
Colossians 1:27 .... this mystery ..... Christ in YOU ......
Matthew 12:28 But if I CAST OUT DEVILS by the Spirit (TRUTH) of God; then the Kingdom of God has COME TO YOU.
God Bless YOU!
In my last post I ended with a discussion of the legalism of the Pharisees; as well as those that have what I call "sloppy Agape" or attempt to gloss over sin and use grace and forgiveness of all past; present and future sins as their excuse. In both of these cases at least for those who remain in a church fellowship we see an idolization of the Pastor most often who no doubt is contributing to one or the other error mentioned here. A true believer would move on if there is heresy coming from one of their own (see Acts 20:30). Justifying self righteousness is aided; of course when someone is financially well to do and credits the church leadership that promises "sowing a seed" will add to prosperity for all (whether or not they are giving a large sum themselves). The opposite of this are those widows and old ladies who are fleeced to their last dollar mesmerized by a Pastor who promises health and happiness with obedience and warns against not doing this despite what common sense would otherwise show.
This first paragraph assumes corrupt leadership. Another sign of our faith is respecting elders and pastors who ARE feeding the flock and tending the sheep properly. (see 1 Timothy 5:17). Disrespect of such authority often mainfests in impatience if a sermon runs 5 minutes late; frustration when genuine financial needs are brought up; lack of participation and interest in prayer and doing service projects in the church and for the comunity; etc. Beyond this; the admonitions of 1 John about loving the brethren are ignored (see 1 John 4:20). Such parishioners will sometimes leave; and we shouldn't strive to force them to stay.
There are others attempting to spread false doctrines which were of course never part of the true flock (see 1 John 2:19). They may leave but if not need to be dealt with lest they be a cancer that affects the whole flock (see warning in Galatians 5:9).
LET US MEDITATE ON MATTHEW 10:16!!!
1 Corinthians 2:14 says: "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."
Deuteronomy 32:28-29 states "For they are a nation void of counsel, neither is there any understanding in them. O that they were wise, that they understood this, that they would consider their latter end!"
There are many reasons people may go to church and not be believers; a general statement would be there are many confessors but less who are POSSESSORS of the Holy Spirit. Focusing on earlier posts discussing how Satan focuses his attacks on the church we need in general to see how Satan is not only opposed to God but comes as s substitute; and mimics every spiritual gift in outward manifestations that may appear to be the same to the undiscerning (such as listed in 1 Corinthians 2:14 above).
As to spiritual manifestations; the "Kundalini" experience often mimics what are true spiritual experiences. We see mention in past revivals of people shaking or trembling at His Word which is scriptural ( Isaiah 66:2). But certain ritualaistic manifestations
cause abandon (usually coiling up like a snake on the floor). Godly sorrow certainly can cause weeping as was reported in many revivals from the past; uncontrollable laughter however is not something that seems edifying. Tongues of angels certainly can be imitated by demons as evidenced by experiences of those in the occult.
In looking at these "charismatic" gifts; we shoiuldn't ignore the "religious" spirit which involves endless ritual and legalistic practices that exceed the scope of the Word. The Pharisees added things with their traditions ( Mark 7:13 and other verses) and this was associated with pride; self righteous and leading others astray. (see Matthew 23:15). The opposite of this is using grace as a license to sin which Romans 6:1 warns about.
Yet the command is found yet again in Colossians 3:18 (KJV) 18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.
2 Peter 3:16 (KJV) 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Yes, twisting scripture to their own destruction...
Walk in Wisdom
Ephesians 5:15-21 (KJV) 16 through verse 21(periscope) verse 21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
Marriage--Christ and the Church
Ephesians 5:22-28 (KJV)
22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself."
It is like the 5 unwise virgins who were left in the (spiritual) darkness (darkness means sin) because they had not taken any care in their lives to meet Jesus, they were busy doing other things. Careless lives. They didn't take their salvation seriously.
So why Jesus says he doesn't know them and never knew them? It is an exxageration of speech. He tells them and us, and He wants to make sure that we understand it that if we don't strive to live righteously untill the end no matter how successful spiritualy we were once, the door of the Kingdom of God will be closed to us. It is like Jesus never knew us, same ending as the rest of the sinful world. There isn't any possible security in a sinful life for the children of God.
Besides why would He know them. After their death their names were erased from the Book of Life.
Rev. 3:5, "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."
GBU
3. Not only they know Him but it seems they were members of the church, they had spiritual gifts which they exercised. It is not logical to assume that people outside the church could have spir. gifts (you mentioned Judas as an example that that can happen). Can it really? Have you read in the Bible or have you met in the world unbelievers that were given gifts, like prophesying, casting out demons, healing? The only case I have read in the Bible were the sons of that priest who tried to cast out a demon and were almost killed by that demon. Acts 19:13-16. What did the demon say to them? That he didn't know them. The devils don't know and don't obey anybody else apart from the children of God. Besides the gifts are for the benefit of the church, not the world. Prophesying is for the edification of the church not of the world, anyway how could that be? To whom and what for one is prophesying to the world? Personally I have never heard or read anywhere about such a thing.
4. They are workers of iniquity. Corrupt lives.
5. Jesus doesn't know them.
Now 3. and 5. seem to be in contrust. How is it possible that they are saved and Jesus doesn't know them?
To understand that we have to see what the purpose of that teaching is, what Jesus is trying to tell them. He is trying to tell them that it is not adequate to believe in Him and get saved initially, they have to live a pure life and not continue or go back to their sinful wordly lives. They have to produce a fruit. Production of fruit is not an automatic process. One has to want to have a fruit and strive for it. Strive to live a righteous life with God providing them His Spirit to enable them to have a fruit. Is it possible to christians to not have any fruit in their lives?. An answer is given in the parable of the Sower. It is the 3rd case, as you said the pleasures, riches of this world etc, etc choke the seed and so those christians become fruitless.
I had decided not to participate any more in debates, especially about the OSAS doctrine, but I think I can not avoid it. I have seen that there are certain theological "inventions" of those who accept the OSAS belief. Firstly the one already known, that is the idea of "not truly saved" and now as I read your post, the idea of "accepting Christ but not knowing Him", am I wrong?
OK lets start from the begining. When is one saved? When he accepts Christ or when he gets to know Him? Definitely when he accepts Jesus. What does that mean? It means that as one hears the Word of God and that Word gets inside his heart (this is the seed that eventually goes inside the good soil) that Word causes him to repent and follow a new path in His life. Next, God regenerates him enabling him to follow that path. Can we agree on that? What does it mean that we know Christ? This is a process that takes a long time in our lives. It doesn't occur only when we read about Jesus and His teachings in the Bible but it mainly occurs as we follow Him in our lives and we get experience with Him along that path. This does not occur overnight, it is a lenthy process. So we can not claim that we are saved when we get to know Christ. In such a case it would take years to aquire salvation.
Let go to Matthew 7:21-23
" 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Lets gather all the points of interest in that teaching.
1. It occurs at the Final Judgement
2. Jesus talks to people who know Him or about Him, they call Him Lord.
You were given your MANTLE at the RESURRECTION of YOU and Christ; TOGETHER, you were joined together as ONE by his resurrection,you are now the bride of Christ, flesh of his flesh, bone of his bone, the NEW CREATION
You are know at the marriage supper of the LAMB, you FLESH (your carnal mind) is being DESTROYED by the TRUTH of God's word.
Revelation 19:9 Blessed are those that are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb .....
Revelation 19:18 That ye (those called to the marriage supper) may EAT the FLESH of mighty men..... the carnal mind that against the TRUTH of God's word.
Isaiah 9:20 ...they (the carnal minded) shall EAT EVERY MAN the FLESH of his own RIGHT ARM ......
The ANOINTING IN YOU will teach you ALL THINGS ---- 1 John 2:27 -----
God Bless YOU!
The warning of Jesus to seven churches include these false brethren. For example this v. "Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:"(Re.3:17) He already knows who are his and who are not. For those incorrigible we have this warning,"Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time./ They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."( 1 John 2:18-19)
Re.12:6-14
Into The Wilderness
"And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, "
Here the Spirit uses the fall of man as the springboard to her redemption, which is indicated with the place where she is nourished for a time. Earthly ministry of Jesus is established there so when St Paul speaks of strong meat it is to gospel he is referring. "And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ."(1 Co.3:10)
The place prepared for her as God warned Eve is the ground from which man was taken and her conception shall be accompanied with sorrow. It is cursed because of their disobedience. "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children;"(Ge.3:16) Even so God has made provisions for them so Isaiah's quote 'Glorify ye God in the fires' (Is.24:15) is very relevant for us. Is the wilderness experience terrible if God is in control over you? ""Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak tenderly to her."(Ho.2:14) What we see in our times is the folly of man without God.
(To Be continued)
Vision of the Woman Clothed with the Sun
This is set in reconstituted time and consequentially skips the earth timescale with which the birth of Jesus was set down. "When Cyrenius was governor of Syria" etc., ( Luke 2:1-6.) What we read in this verse,"And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne," ix a summing up the divine Will regarding his Son. (12:5) The rod of iron helps us recall the quote from the Psalm 2. The reconstituted time leads us to the new heaven and new earth.
12:7-12 The War in Heaven and the Fall
The Angelic revolt is not intended for us so the Spirit skips its origin but its fall out has consequences. Ge.6 1-3 for example. Jude v.6 also refers to the fallen angels. As St Paul warns us, "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."(Ep.6:12-NIV) From the above it is evident that we consider our lives interfacing with two worlds at the same time. "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light."(2 Co.11:14)
The heresies with which false ministers preach another gospel and another Christ have their consequences. Satan sins from the beginning, "And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth."(12:4) ( Dan 12:3) The gospel of God has a direct reference to the baseline mentioned in the earlier post. These who have fallen from the cloud of witnesses, from the world of the Spirit are those have become slave to another gospel and Christ. It is against them the number 'a thousand two hundred and threescore days' is held as a warning.
Vision of the Woman Clothed with the Sun
The woman called before the worlds began, the holy family of saints have a place, this world of the Spirit is called the heavenly places, Blessedness is in the two great lights for signs, the sun of righteousness and the moon, grace of the word keeping her position.(Ep.1:3). 12 stars denote perfection as an adornment. When she loses her place she loses them all.
Man-child ('who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron') refers to Christ and the elect. The number of days refers to three and half years which is the baseline (the ministry of Jesus on the earth) which governs the reconstituted time.
vv. 3-4 "And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads./And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth." As with God setting up the woman in heavenly places the red dragon also appears, The devil sins from the beginning so we have to understand the running feud between the holy family of God and the dragon runs parallel.
Re.12:7 -12 The War in Heaven and the fall
"And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."
Re.12:10-17 The Earth
"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."
12:1-6 The Woman:
The Spirit presents her as the bride of Christ as intended in the divine Will. "And brought her unto the man." (Ge.2:22) With this in mind the Genesis quote must be set against this Pauline quote, "For I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ". (2 Co.11:2).
The Vision of the Woman Clothed with the Sun
In order to understand the manner the Holy Spirit has organized this chapter from the Book of the Revelation shall of immense help to follow the intent of the Spirit, which is evident in its final form. It is from God to man so man has to follow the lead. It is the God document and wisdom with which anyone may unlock it is by wisdom from above and it is faith that is demanded of the reader. Let there be no mistake on that score.
As with dreams and visions in any context,- secular or otherwise it has all elements to explain the manner the world of the Spirit interface with the world of the Spirit. The difference between our workaday world and this is same as the bow set in heaven after the great flood. The rainbow ever since throws up a sign and it is anchored on the everlasting covenant. God shall 'remember' as the Spirit explains it. "And it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth,"and it concerns the everlasting covenant which in fact has his Son implied. In the numbers and period of time given in the vision of St John we see how he is presented.(Ge.8:13-16)
we shall at the present consider only the time element and significance of numbers. One important clue is the divisions of heavenly place where the woman stands and 'the remnant of her seed' warring with the dragon are done away so the place prepared of God and her seed warring with the dragon overlap each other.
Here are three major divisions
Re.12:1-6 The Woman
"And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days."
The woman called before the worlds began, the holy family of saints have a place, this world of the Spirit is called the heavenly places, Blessedness is in the two great lights for signs, the sun of righteousness and the moon, grace of the word keeping her position.(Ep.1:3).