We need God in our lives in a right relationship through the Son, Jesus. We need the Spirit's regenerative work and indwelling. We need our Heavenly Father's justification of us on the merit's of His Son's sacrifice. We need all three Persons of the Godhead to make us what this One God desires for us, to be conformed to the perfect humanity of Christ, to be like Him in this life and in eternity. In this life we are in the process of becoming as God intends for us; in eternity, we will BE as God intends for us forever. We will be complete in Christ, without corruption, sin, or mortality. It will be so wonderful to be with Jesus in the place He has prepared for us and to be like Him in every way God has willed for us to become. So looking forward to that time. But in this time, I determine each day to live a life that honors Him; to listen for the direction of the Holy Spirit in my thoughts, words, and actions. May these be a pleasing aroma to God.
Concerning Women's Head Coverings 1 Corinthians 11:2-16
Note the following verses.
11:5-- "but any woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered disgraces her head--it is one and the same thing as having her head shaved."
11:6-- "For if a woman will not cover herself, then she should cut off her hair; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to have her hair cut off or to be shaved, she should keep it covered.
11:7-- "For a man ought not to cover his head . . ."
11:10-- "For this reason a woman ought to have [a symbol of] authority on her head"
11:13-- "Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?"
11:15-- "but if a woman has long hair, it is her glory . . ."
Several points can be made here.
(1) If 'covering' = 'hair,' then all men should shave their heads or go bald because the men are to have their heads uncovered.
(2) If 'covering' = 'long hair,' then v 6 seems to suggest a tautology: "if a woman will not wear long hair, then she should cut off her hair." But this in no way advances the argument.
(3) The argument caves in by its own subtlety. To see 'hair' = 'head covering' means that one has to go through several exegetical hoops.In short, it hardly appears to be the plain meaning of the text.
(4) Verses 10 and 15 would have to be saying the same thing if long hair is the same as a head covering. But this can hardly be the case. In v 10, a woman is required to wear a 'symbol of authority.' Such a symbol represents her submission, not her glory.
To argue, then, that long hair is the woman's head covering seems to miss the very point of the function of the head covering and of the long hair: one shows her submission while the other shows her glory.Both of these are contrasted with an uncovered head while praying or prophesying, or a shaved head at any time: such would speak of the woman's humiliation and shame.
from your answer, you used the words "should lead a life of obedience" this is in character of today's Christianity
would you agree that those who reject the Grace of God appearance in them, not believing that it is He who is speaking to them in their hearts, the conviction of sin & of righteousness are deluded in their false hopes of salvation? Though they may zealously profess themselve born again Christians, contrary to Truth Rom 61John 3:9, who continuing in unbelief & sin for life, not believing that all things are possible with God. including a state of sinlessness, which includes becoming a partaker of His divine nature having escape the corruption of this world through lust, "a past tense" statement, reaching a state of Grace perfection were love is perfected in them according to
1John 2:5-61John 5:18Rom 8:29
For we know that God is the same yesterday & today & forever meaning
His Word Isa 55:11 which is the Word of Faith that Paul preached. Rom 10:11
In Holy Spirit commanded exhortation in 1Cor 15:34
If one believes to never expects to reach a state of perfection of the Divine Nature in this life, than its stands to Scripture & sound reasoning that, that person have not receive the true knowledge of God, but a form of godliness without the power, an image without the Spirit & the Life of the Son of God, for the nature of true saving faith purifies the heart, which faith is held in a pure conscience by which
The Blood of Jesus cleanses from all sin, redeem from all iniquity, & implants the divine nature were one sins no more.
Heb 10:1,2,26
I believe one of mankind greatest sins is not being as we were created, Gen 1:27 & I believe God sent His Son to making this possible again, even to a higher state Rom 8:17Gal 3:29
I wonder if the majority of Western women who claim to be Christian do not actually submit to their Christian husbands. This is no small thing to Christ!
1 Peter 3:1 (KJV) 1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
1 Peter 3:5-6 (KJV) 5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands: 6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.
Colossians 3:18 (KJV) 18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.
Ephesians 5:22-24 (KJV) 22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Ep 5:23 The reason for the wife's submission is that her husband is her head. He occupies the same relation to her that Christ occupies to the church. Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. (The word Savior here can have the meaning of Preserver, as it has in 1Ti 4:10, JND). So the husband is head of the wife, and he is her preserver as well. As head he loves, leads, and guides; as preserver he provides, protects, and cares for her.
We all know there is great revulsion against this teaching in our day. People accuse Paul of being a bigoted bachelor, a male chauvinist, a woman-hater. Or they say his views reflect the social customs of his day but are no longer applicable today. Such statements are, of course, a frontal attack on the inspiration of the Scriptures. These are not merely Paul's words; they are the words of God. To refuse them is to refuse Him and invite difficulty and disaster.
Sorry, but I feel compelled to interject on this issue.
You stated:"So, as believers, we are able to live godly lives, but not sin-free lives." How do we live Godly lives and remain in sin?
You're stating we CAN'T live sin free lives and I believe that each of us defeat ourselves before we even get started by using and accepting the word can't. One of the biggest failures that I see with modern Christians today is this steady unending drumbeat - we can never stop sinning. They continualy reinforce this idea that they themselves, and everyone else will never ever stop sinning during thier lifetime(s). Don't you think this mindset just reinforces and minimises sin by making it more acceptable.
The multitudes of churchs and pastors out there are busy repeating this same mantra of "we can't stop sinning"' while at the same time living worldy fleshy lifestyles. Not hard to figure out why they haven't overcome sin.
I'm tired of hearing Christains saying they can't stop sinning. I would like to start hearing - we can stop sinning and here are ways that I'm working with the Holy Spirit toward becoming sin free. Where in the scripture does Jesus tell us we can't stop sinning? Jesus tells us in scripture "we can" and should stop sinning. If we are supposed to pick up our cross to follow and emulate Jesus should we be stating something different than He would to ourselves and others - that we can never stop sinning?
I know one thing for sure, if you say CAN'T you never will. I love you GiGi but please try to get CAN'T out of your head, and instead it might be better to say it's very hard to stop all sin - but I believe I can with Gods help, because he promised me that I could accomplish anything with Faith! Matt 17:20
If you use King James Pure Bible Search you should get the numbers 77777. Also you can watch (Truth is Christ) on youtube to see many more patterns that only God could be in control of. The KJB has God's signature throughout the whole Bible.
I really don't think my way of interpreting scripture is complex or confusing. I always try to allow the Word of God to interpret itself. I believe the KJB is the pure preserved Word of God, when I found this channel (Truth is Christ) it shows God has placed every word exactly as, and where He wanted them to be, which only confirmed to me that the KJB is truly the Word of God.
The ((words)) of the LORD are pure words.
Jesus emphasized "keeping His words" in many different places in the Bible, not just commandments.
( Ps 12:6-7) The words of the LORD are pure words, preserved for ever.
( Mt 4:4) "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by ((every word)) that proceedeth out of the mouth of God"
( Prov 30:5-6) v5 "Every word of God is pure" v6 "Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar"
( Ps 119:16) "I will not forget thy word"
( Ps 119:89) :For ever O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven"
( Mt 24:35) "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away"
( Isa 55:10-11) "So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please"
( Jn 8:31-32)
( Jn 14:23-24) "If a man love me he will keep my words"
( Jn 12:47-48) v48 "He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the words that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day"
Those words that will judge in the last day ( Rev 20:11-12) The books that are opened that judge in the last day are the words that Jesus hath spoken, so we have to have those books which are the words Jesus spoke or it wouldn't be righteous judgment for us, would it be?
Thank you brother Frankie J for the clarification. Very relevant scripture..
Romans 6:14-16 In this passage, the main point is to emphasize the idea of being freed from the power of sin through faith in Jesus Christ. The key takeaway emphasizes freedom from sin through grace and the importance of choosing obedience to God rather than sin.
The main points in these verses are:
1. **Freedom from Sin:** Paul is emphasizing that believers are no longer under the dominion or control of sin because of their faith in Jesus Christ. This freedom from sin's mastery is a result of being under God's grace.
2. **Not an Excuse for Sin:** Paul addresses a potential misunderstanding or misinterpretation of this freedom. He makes it clear that being under grace does not mean that Christians have a license to sin or live in a sinful way. Instead, they are called to a life of obedience to God.
3. **Choice of Obedience:** Paul presents a choice to the believers. They can either offer themselves as obedient slaves to sin, which leads to spiritual death, or they can choose obedience to God, which leads to righteousness and life.
The main point of Romans 6:14-16 is that through faith in Jesus Christ, believers are freed from the dominion of sin. However, this freedom should [[[[ NOT BE ]]]] misinterpreted as a license to sin; rather, it should lead to a life of obedience and righteousness in service to God.
Yes, the concept that humans are born into sin is a fundamental belief in many Christian denominations, and it is often referred to as "original sin." The idea is based on several passages from the Bible, although the term "original sin" itself is not explicitly mentioned in the Bible. Here are some key passages that are often cited to support this doctrine:
1. ** Genesis 3:6-7 (KJV)** - This passage describes the story of Adam and Eve's disobedience in the Garden of Eden: "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked, and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons."
2. ** Psalm 51:5 (KJV)** - In King David's prayer of confession, he says, "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me." This verse is often interpreted as evidence of the inheritance of a sinful nature from birth.
3. ** Romans 5:12 (KJV)** - In the New Testament, the Apostle Paul writes, "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." This verse is often cited to support the idea that all humans inherit a sinful nature from Adam, the first man.
4. ** Ephesians 2:3 (KJV)** - In this passage, Paul describes humanity before coming to faith in Jesus: "Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others." This verse suggests that humans are, by nature, deserving of God's judgment due to their sinful inclinations.
It's worth noting that interpretations of these verses and the doctrine of original sin can vary among Christian denominations..
Dear Jim, I am not that person who claims to have attained sinless perfection, as I explained. So do not worry for me.
We are to grow in grace, and therefore, we will certainly live in obedience to God more and more. But, also, the Holy Spirit will show us more and more our sins we are not perceiving. He examines our hearts and reveals to us how we are giving in to the sinful nature. This work of His helps us know how we are to further resist temptation and walk by the Spirit and not by the sinful nature.
Zion on which the house of the God of Jacob is founded refers to the latter temple in heaven. The law,- and the word of the Lord, consequently is what drives the temple program and is going on in heaven. So when Jesus said, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up./Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?/But he spake of the temple of his body." ( John 2:19-21).
Thus there is no temple in the conventional sense and Jerusalem is synonymous with other cities judged by God. (Re.11:8).. For this reason the vision of the solid Golden Candlestick in Ze.4 is very crucial. Every believer who abides in Christ must show fruits. He is being fed from the fullness of the seven spirits and he has also two witnesses: his spirit and soul attesting what is his calling. He is priest as well as king unto God in the Son.
Lastly the symbol of mountain spoken by Isaiah is in the context of the Son who isthe rock cut not with hands in the vision interpreted by Daniel. The saints redeemed from the earth are part of the rock and when the apostate church is smashed along with world government nothing of it shall remain. Only the saints shall be left behind to inherit the kingdom of light. It is of the latter days, 'in those days' the earth is under new management: the kingdom of dear Son. What these two passages refer is the Millennium Reign of the latter days.
And the inhabitants of one city shall go to another, saying, Let us go speedily to pray before theLord, and to seek theLordof hosts: I will go also./Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek theLordof hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before theLord.
Thus saith theLordof hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you." (8:21-23).
Compare this passage with the passage in the Book of Isaiah. "And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of theLord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it./And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of theLord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of theLordfrom Jerusalem."(Is.2:2-3)
The Spirit sets two prophecies as in the instance the warnings to Judah and Jerusalem from the standpoint of the Father and the Son. The Will of God is irrevocable. The books are opened and judgment is set. Thus the nation of Israel has to come to the level God demands from them. Hence we have this warning in vv.16-17. If they obey to do, God promises to turn their fasting into 'joy and gladness, and cheerful feasts; therefore love the truth and peace.' (8:19).
On the other hand we have this verse attesting their reprobate mind. "Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law." (7:12) So when Isaiah speaks 'For out of Zion shall go forth the law' it is clear. Jerusalem on the earth is dead.
(8) Some who reject their faith and abandon a true relationship with God ( Heb 3:12) may still think they are Christians. However, their spiritual neglect and unconcern toward the demands of Christ, the inner voice of the Holy Spirit and the warnings of Scripture prove that they are in rebellion against God. Because of this possibility of self-deception, Paul urges all those claiming to be spiritually saved to "examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves" ( 2Co 13:5, note).
(9) Those who genuinely become concerned about their spiritual condition and have a desire to return to God in true repentance (i.e., changing one's attitude toward God, admitting sin, turning from one's own way and submitting to God) can be sure that they have not committed the unforgivable sin (cf. Mk 3:29), or ultimate apostasy. God's Word clearly affirms that he does not want anyone to perish or be spiritually lost and separated from him for eternity ( 2Pe 3:9; cf. Isa 1:18-19; 55:6-7). In fact, the heavenly Father will joyfully receive any wayward, rebellious or lost child who truly repents and returns to him (compare Gal 5:4 with 4:19; 1Co 5:1-5 with 2Co 2:5-11; see also Lk 15:11-24; Ro 11:20-23; Jas 5:19-20; Rev 3:14-20; note the example of Peter, Mt 16:16; 26:74-75; Jn 21:15-22).
J. Wesley Adams and Donald C. Stamps, Fire Bible (Springfield, MO: Life Publishers International, 2011), Heb 3:12.
It is my personal belief that this "sin unto death" is the final ultimate apostasy. Similar to final stage cancer at that point is beyond hope and brings Spiritual and eternal death.
(7) It must be emphasized that while spiritual backsliding is a danger for all who drift from faith in Christ ( Heb 2:1-3) and turn away from God (6:6), ultimate apostasy resulting in the hopeless condition described in the previous point does not occur without constant and deliberate resistance against the Holy Spirit (see Mt 12:31, note on sin against the Holy Spirit). Just as we are not saved by our own works and efforts, but by God's grace (see Eph 2:8-9; Tit 3:5), neither are we fully condemned to separation from God by our actions alone (although we will be judged by them; 2Co 5:10). People are saved spiritually by accepting God's grace and putting their faith in Christ; and people are condemned spiritually by rejecting (or simply not accepting) God's grace and refusing to put their faith in Christ (cf. 12:15, 25; Ac 19:19; 2Th 2:10; Rev 16:9). Refusing to have faith in God can be expressed in several ways, including refusing to believe in God, refusing to rely on God, refusing to take God at his Word, refusing to admit the wrongness of our own way, refusing to accept God's way of spiritual salvation through Christ alone and refusing to accept God's help and involvement in our lives. A person who allows his or her heart to become hardened or rebellious toward God by refusing him in any of these ways is in serious danger of rejecting God permanently (3:12).
Revelation 1:19 Write the things which thou hast SEEN, and the things WHICH ARE, and the things which shall be HEREAFTER;
Things which thou hast SEEN ( Rev 1:1-18) things which ARE ( Revelation 2,3) things which shall be HEREAFTER ( Revelation 4:1)
John wrote down what he had seen, in the order in which he saw them.
REV 2,3 'WHICH ARE' CHURCHES IN JOHNS TIME/CHURCHES TODAY
Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth
Rapture 'seizing and carrying off'
There have been raptures already just by the definition above, more yet to come.
Enoch, Elijah, Captives free in the OT are 'raptures'
RAPTURES DURING THE GREAT TRIBULATION.
(Disclaimer: John wrote it) Those who repent during tribulation before the 7th seal, later 144,000 and Two witnesses. Salvation will be available to those who ask for God's grace before the 7th seal though they must endure the first 6 seals.
REV 4:1 RAPTURE/TRIB (Dead in Christ rise first, they which are alive) 6 SEALS ( REV 7:14 Great multitude..'out of' meaning within. Two Witnesses, 144,000 man child)
TODAY IS THE DAY OF SALVATION SEEK HIM WHILE HE MAY BE FOUND!
Mark 13:32 -But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
RAPTURE/START OF TRIBULATION ( Rev 4:2/19:11-21) 2ND COMING OF CHRIST
Chapter 7 starts 'after these' so chapters 4,5,6 have happened.
LITTLE HORN UPROOTS 3 NATIONS, AND OTHER 6 FALL IN LINE. AFTER 3.5 YEARS OF WAR.
Zechariah 14:16-23 - After Tribulation 'Those that left' 'year to year' for 1000 years. Will live, age, multiply and die. In Heaven until 1000 years are up. These nations satan will be let loose to deceive the nations one last time.
NOT THOSE RAPTURED SAINTS WITH CHRIST 2ND Coming, THEY WILL BE ETERNAL
In order to answer the significance we have Jesus Christ set here as the Branch. In him is the 'counsel of peace' the fusion of priest-king. These branches from him supply the fulness of our royal office and priesthood. In him we are priests and kings unto God. It is a promise and it comes with conditions. For this reason we have this warning from both the Father and the Son. This is the forerunner of the indwelling Spirit as the earnest of our inheritance.
"11.But they refused to hearken, and pulled away the shoulder, and stopped their ears, that they should not hear./12Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law, and the words which theLordof hosts hath sent in his spirit by the former prophets: therefore came a great wrath from theLordof hosts."
This wrath we know is the great tribulation predicted by the prophets.
"These are the things that ye shall do; Speak ye every man the truth to his neighbour; execute the judgment of truth and peace in your gates:/And let none of you imagine evil in your hearts against his neighbour; and love no false oath: for all these are things that I hate, saith theLord." The Spirit is giving this warning to Israel which is from the Lord God.
Compare the above with these verses almost a repetition, (7:8-12)"And the word of theLordcame unto Zechariah, saying,/Thus speaketh theLordof hosts, saying, Execute true judgment, and shew mercy and compassions every man to his brother:/And oppress not the widow, nor the fatherless, the stranger, nor the poor; and let none of you imagine evil against his brother in your heart."
And the word of the Lord came to Zechariah which is from the standpoint of the Son. in whose hand is the plummet. Zerubabbel serves as the double for the Son."The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that theLordof hosts hath sent me unto you./For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of theLord, which run to and fro through the whole earth.(4:9-10). Thereafter the Spirit shows the two anointed ones, which are the olive brances and not the trees themselves,"two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?"(4:12)
This New Age had been determined in the divine Will. In heaven we have a temple building set rolling and Jesus came into his own, "He came unto his own, and his own received him not." ( John 1:11). The incident in the synagogue was not accidental. God did know who were His and who were reprobate silver. Jesus was announcing the Year of deliverance, the year in the Lexicon of the Spirit time element has a different significance than the earth time as we know it. "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one dayiswith the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."(2 Pe.3:8)
"To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified" (Is.61:3).
The fasts mentioned in the key verse refers to:
On the fourth month the children of Israel observed fast: mourning the capture of Jerusalem (Je.52:6-30)
On the fifth they fasted, Burning of Jerusalem and the destruction of Solomon's Temple (2 Ki.25:2-10)
On the seventh it was on account of the Assassination of Gedaliah and the massacre of 80 men. (Je.41:1-10)
And on the tenth month it was to remember the beginning of Nebuchadnezzar's siege against Jerusalem. (2 Ki.25:1)
"And the word of theLordof hosts came unto me, saying,/Thus saith theLordof hosts; The fast of the fourth month, and the fast of the fifth, and the fast of the seventh, and the fast of the tenth, shall be to the house of Judah joy and gladness, and cheerful feasts; therefore love the truth and peace."
How does fasting is turned into gladness? "Thou hast turned for me my mourning into dancing: thou hast put off my sackcloth, and girded me with gladness." (Ps.30:11) It is what God can do, none else. Least of all by traditions of men.
Here we see traditions of men indulging in meaningless observances much mumbo-jumbo to distract the heart from true repentance. Seventy years in exile did not cure Israel of their disobedience. "Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law, and the words which theLordof hosts hath sent in his spirit by the former prophets." Zechariah would be a martyr reasons for which are not difficult to fathom. They had to have a new spirit: in order to arrive there the nation of Israel had to love truth and peace.
Jesus before he would begin the ministry went to the synagogue in Nazareth, He was there announcing a new age.* "The Spirit of the Lord GODisupon me;" His declaration of liberty to those who were bound was not a spur of the moment. He was there to lay the foundation for the temple that shall be revealed in the latter days. He was exhorting all hands to be partakers for it. At the end of it what happened? "And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath,/And rose up, and thrust him out of the city, and led him unto the brow of the hill whereon their city was built, that they might cast him down headlong./But he passing through the midst of them went his way." ( Luke 4:27-30)
Yet it is the Lord's doing and Prophet Zechariah predicts the Millennial Reign,
When I made that statement I was speaking in a general sense. I see what you mean, but to be honest I don't think either of us will know for sure how the "mechanics" of how that may work. We can only go by what Scripture states or reveals to us. You might be correct for those who sin and didn't repent before they died unexpectedly.. We just don't have an exact explanation or example or parable for us to enlight us further to a situation such as that. So I'm afraid we have to assume a bit. Kinda brings to mind something I read from Spurgeon about the "sin that leads to death" found in 1 John 5:16-17 some things we just don't know?Refer to his "illustration" below:
5:16-17 "There is sin that leads to death.... All unrighteousness is sin." Perhaps someone thinks he has committed this unpardonable sin and is at this moment grieving over it. If so, it is clear that he cannot have committed the "sin that leads to death," or else he could not grieve over it. Whoever repents of sin and trusts in Jesus Christ is freely and fully forgiven; therefore, he has clearly not committed a sin that will not be forgiven. There is much in this passage to make us prayerful and watchful, but there is nothing here to make a troubled heart feel anything like despair.
ILLUSTRATION 5:16
An owner of a country estate may put up a sign that reads, "Danger: Beware of traps and spring guns." No one would think of going to the front door of the mansion and saying, "Would you please tell me where the traps and spring guns are set?" If we asked that question, the answer would be, "The purpose of this warning is not to tell you where they are, for you have no business to trespass there at all." So "all unrighteousness is sin," and we are warned to keep clear of it. "There is sin that leads to death," but we are not told what that sin is on purpose that we may, by the grace of God, keep clear of sin altogether.
In your post you wrote, "Post-baptismal sin can not make anyone lose their salvation... Only individual apostasy can do that".
I disagree. An imaginary story: A christian dies. He (or she) was a good christian, he followed Jesus all the way, kept the faith, strived to live rightously BUT he left some issues in his life unsolved. Maybe he was feeling hostile towards that neighbor because that neighbor did something to him, and he can't get over it or don't want to get over it and forgive that neighbor. Maybe he was unjust towards a person, maybe he cheated the state by not paying his fair share of taxes he should had done. Maybe he was looking passionately at that woman neighbor and didn't try to fight and cut that feeling off. Anything really. Any issue which was not cleared before he goes. Do you think he is still eligible to enter heaven? In my opinion no, he will not get there because he died in an unrepentant state. He didn't repend about those sins although he had done everything else properly. So, in my opinion, post-baptismal sin can lead you to hell as long as we are not willing to fix some issues. And since we do not know the day and time of our death/rapture (pre or post doesn't make any difference) we must always be in a repentance mode and not only that but in a mood to fix/restore practically out relationships with all those we have problems with. So it is not only individual apostasy that makes you lose your soul, it is more than that.
We have come to the distressing times as Jerusalem faced with the Chaldeans at the gates. God's word to Zechariah is relevant for us,"Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law, and the words which theLordof hosts hath sent in his spirit by the former prophets: therefore came a great wrath from theLordof hosts./Therefore it is come to pass, that as he cried, and they would not hear; so they cried, and I would not hear, saith theLordof hosts:"(7:12-13)
And it came to pass in the fourth year of king Darius, that the word of theLordcame unto Zechariah in the fourth day of the ninth month, even in Chisleu;/When they had sent unto the house of God Sherezer and Regemmelech, and their men, to pray before theLord,/And to speak unto the priests which were in the house of theLordof hosts, and to the prophets, saying, Should I weep in the fifth month, separating myself, as I have done these so many years? (vv.1-3)
On December 4, 518 B.C. a delegation came to Jerusalem with a question about fasting. At this point, the temple was somewhere around halfway completed. Against this the Zechariah receives the word of God that forms the gist of this chapter.
4Then came the word of theLordof hosts unto me, saying,/Speak unto all the people of the land, and to the priests, saying, When ye fasted and mourned in the fifth and seventh month, even those seventy years, did ye at all fast unto me, even to me?
God did not institute these fastings to commemorate their disobedience and consequences. For instance we have in the Book of Jeremiah the assasination of Gedaliah and mass murder of 80 men (Je.41:1-10)
6And when ye did eat, and when ye did drink, did not ye eat for yourselves, and drink for yourselves?
7Should ye not hear the words which theLordhath cried by the former prophets, when Jerusalem was inhabited and in prosperity, and the cities thereof round about her, when men inhabited the south and the plain?
vv.6-7 God noticed those who enquired of the Lord were approaching in their need and they were no different than those who were in the days of Jesus, "These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me./They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.' (Matt.15:8-9). The same superficiality which we see.
vv.9-15 we see the narrative mode of the Spirit by which what is of specific concern of the day faced Joshua the high priest and Zerubabbel is tied up with the glory of the latter day temple. "Behold the man whose name is TheBranch; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of theLord:/Even he shall build the temple of theLord; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both." Jesus Christ as a tender plant,'he shall grow up out of his place' sets him in context of Prophet Isaiah's prophecy,"For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground."-Is.53:2) Zechariah conflates two prophecies from Isaiah which is what the Spirit revealed to him. "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."(Is.9:6)
"And he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne." As the Branch it is decreed Jesus Christ is the Prince of Peace,- that both priest and king, 'shall have the counsel of peace' in his office. Glory of the Temple springs forth him and from his throne. The Spirit here predicts the Millennial Reign and of New Jerusalem.
Also significant is the condition laid at the end, "And this shall come to pass, if ye will diligently obey the voice of theLordyour God."
In the inaugural vision of Zechariah Ze.1: 8-17 we scame across four chariots and horses mentioned and here we have Seven Spirits refer to the Spirit of Christ (Re.ch.5:6)
The composite emblem of chariots and horses are symbolic of conflict and engines of war where the Spirit is conducting the operation. From the passage the world at ease owed to the Silence of half an hour in heaven. It was apparently a lull before the storm. The Spirit is on a mopping up operation. The result of is what presented here. The angel of the Lord tells Zechariah, "Then cried he upon me, and spake unto me, saying, Behold, these that go toward the north country have quieted my spirit in the north country." It is thus with each direction. When Spirit sets them walking the earth to and fro they set in motion and these shall control history of nations. "So shall they fear the name of theLordfrom the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of theLordshall lift up a standard against him(Is.59:19).
These four spirits where number 4 has specific purpose as the four angels that are prepared for His purpose..This we can understand from this passage, "Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates./And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men./And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.(Re.9:14-16)" Legions that are at bidding is like a flood and the Spirit shall lift his standard.
We need God in our lives in a right relationship through the Son, Jesus. We need the Spirit's regenerative work and indwelling. We need our Heavenly Father's justification of us on the merit's of His Son's sacrifice. We need all three Persons of the Godhead to make us what this One God desires for us, to be conformed to the perfect humanity of Christ, to be like Him in this life and in eternity. In this life we are in the process of becoming as God intends for us; in eternity, we will BE as God intends for us forever. We will be complete in Christ, without corruption, sin, or mortality. It will be so wonderful to be with Jesus in the place He has prepared for us and to be like Him in every way God has willed for us to become. So looking forward to that time. But in this time, I determine each day to live a life that honors Him; to listen for the direction of the Holy Spirit in my thoughts, words, and actions. May these be a pleasing aroma to God.
Note the following verses.
11:5-- "but any woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered disgraces her head--it is one and the same thing as having her head shaved."
11:6-- "For if a woman will not cover herself, then she should cut off her hair; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to have her hair cut off or to be shaved, she should keep it covered.
11:7-- "For a man ought not to cover his head . . ."
11:10-- "For this reason a woman ought to have [a symbol of] authority on her head"
11:13-- "Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?"
11:15-- "but if a woman has long hair, it is her glory . . ."
Several points can be made here.
(1) If 'covering' = 'hair,' then all men should shave their heads or go bald because the men are to have their heads uncovered.
(2) If 'covering' = 'long hair,' then v 6 seems to suggest a tautology: "if a woman will not wear long hair, then she should cut off her hair." But this in no way advances the argument.
(3) The argument caves in by its own subtlety. To see 'hair' = 'head covering' means that one has to go through several exegetical hoops.In short, it hardly appears to be the plain meaning of the text.
(4) Verses 10 and 15 would have to be saying the same thing if long hair is the same as a head covering. But this can hardly be the case. In v 10, a woman is required to wear a 'symbol of authority.' Such a symbol represents her submission, not her glory.
To argue, then, that long hair is the woman's head covering seems to miss the very point of the function of the head covering and of the long hair: one shows her submission while the other shows her glory.Both of these are contrasted with an uncovered head while praying or prophesying, or a shaved head at any time: such would speak of the woman's humiliation and shame.
from your answer, you used the words "should lead a life of obedience" this is in character of today's Christianity
would you agree that those who reject the Grace of God appearance in them, not believing that it is He who is speaking to them in their hearts, the conviction of sin & of righteousness are deluded in their false hopes of salvation? Though they may zealously profess themselve born again Christians, contrary to Truth Rom 6 1John 3:9, who continuing in unbelief & sin for life, not believing that all things are possible with God. including a state of sinlessness, which includes becoming a partaker of His divine nature having escape the corruption of this world through lust, "a past tense" statement, reaching a state of Grace perfection were love is perfected in them according to
1John 2:5-6 1John 5:18 Rom 8:29
For we know that God is the same yesterday & today & forever meaning
His Word Isa 55:11 which is the Word of Faith that Paul preached. Rom 10:11
In Holy Spirit commanded exhortation in 1Cor 15:34
If one believes to never expects to reach a state of perfection of the Divine Nature in this life, than its stands to Scripture & sound reasoning that, that person have not receive the true knowledge of God, but a form of godliness without the power, an image without the Spirit & the Life of the Son of God, for the nature of true saving faith purifies the heart, which faith is held in a pure conscience by which
The Blood of Jesus cleanses from all sin, redeem from all iniquity, & implants the divine nature were one sins no more.
Heb 10:1,2,26
I believe one of mankind greatest sins is not being as we were created, Gen 1:27 & I believe God sent His Son to making this possible again, even to a higher state Rom 8:17 Gal 3:29
1 Peter 3:1 (KJV) 1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
1 Peter 3:5-6 (KJV) 5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands: 6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.
Colossians 3:18 (KJV) 18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.
Ephesians 5:22-24 (KJV) 22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Ep 5:23 The reason for the wife's submission is that her husband is her head. He occupies the same relation to her that Christ occupies to the church. Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. (The word Savior here can have the meaning of Preserver, as it has in 1Ti 4:10, JND). So the husband is head of the wife, and he is her preserver as well. As head he loves, leads, and guides; as preserver he provides, protects, and cares for her.
We all know there is great revulsion against this teaching in our day. People accuse Paul of being a bigoted bachelor, a male chauvinist, a woman-hater. Or they say his views reflect the social customs of his day but are no longer applicable today. Such statements are, of course, a frontal attack on the inspiration of the Scriptures. These are not merely Paul's words; they are the words of God. To refuse them is to refuse Him and invite difficulty and disaster.
Sorry, but I feel compelled to interject on this issue.
You stated:"So, as believers, we are able to live godly lives, but not sin-free lives." How do we live Godly lives and remain in sin?
You're stating we CAN'T live sin free lives and I believe that each of us defeat ourselves before we even get started by using and accepting the word can't. One of the biggest failures that I see with modern Christians today is this steady unending drumbeat - we can never stop sinning. They continualy reinforce this idea that they themselves, and everyone else will never ever stop sinning during thier lifetime(s). Don't you think this mindset just reinforces and minimises sin by making it more acceptable.
The multitudes of churchs and pastors out there are busy repeating this same mantra of "we can't stop sinning"' while at the same time living worldy fleshy lifestyles. Not hard to figure out why they haven't overcome sin.
I'm tired of hearing Christains saying they can't stop sinning. I would like to start hearing - we can stop sinning and here are ways that I'm working with the Holy Spirit toward becoming sin free. Where in the scripture does Jesus tell us we can't stop sinning? Jesus tells us in scripture "we can" and should stop sinning. If we are supposed to pick up our cross to follow and emulate Jesus should we be stating something different than He would to ourselves and others - that we can never stop sinning?
I know one thing for sure, if you say CAN'T you never will. I love you GiGi but please try to get CAN'T out of your head, and instead it might be better to say it's very hard to stop all sin - but I believe I can with Gods help, because he promised me that I could accomplish anything with Faith! Matt 17:20
If you use King James Pure Bible Search you should get the numbers 77777. Also you can watch (Truth is Christ) on youtube to see many more patterns that only God could be in control of. The KJB has God's signature throughout the whole Bible.
I really don't think my way of interpreting scripture is complex or confusing. I always try to allow the Word of God to interpret itself. I believe the KJB is the pure preserved Word of God, when I found this channel (Truth is Christ) it shows God has placed every word exactly as, and where He wanted them to be, which only confirmed to me that the KJB is truly the Word of God.
The ((words)) of the LORD are pure words.
Jesus emphasized "keeping His words" in many different places in the Bible, not just commandments.
( Ps 12:6-7) The words of the LORD are pure words, preserved for ever.
( Mt 4:4) "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by ((every word)) that proceedeth out of the mouth of God"
( Prov 30:5-6) v5 "Every word of God is pure" v6 "Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar"
( Ps 119:16) "I will not forget thy word"
( Ps 119:89) :For ever O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven"
( Mt 24:35) "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away"
( Isa 55:10-11) "So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please"
( Jn 8:31-32)
( Jn 14:23-24) "If a man love me he will keep my words"
( Jn 12:47-48) v48 "He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the words that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day"
Those words that will judge in the last day ( Rev 20:11-12) The books that are opened that judge in the last day are the words that Jesus hath spoken, so we have to have those books which are the words Jesus spoke or it wouldn't be righteous judgment for us, would it be?
( Jn 1:1,14)
( Isa 40:8)
Blessings to you Hammer.
Romans 6:14-16 In this passage, the main point is to emphasize the idea of being freed from the power of sin through faith in Jesus Christ. The key takeaway emphasizes freedom from sin through grace and the importance of choosing obedience to God rather than sin.
The main points in these verses are:
1. **Freedom from Sin:** Paul is emphasizing that believers are no longer under the dominion or control of sin because of their faith in Jesus Christ. This freedom from sin's mastery is a result of being under God's grace.
2. **Not an Excuse for Sin:** Paul addresses a potential misunderstanding or misinterpretation of this freedom. He makes it clear that being under grace does not mean that Christians have a license to sin or live in a sinful way. Instead, they are called to a life of obedience to God.
3. **Choice of Obedience:** Paul presents a choice to the believers. They can either offer themselves as obedient slaves to sin, which leads to spiritual death, or they can choose obedience to God, which leads to righteousness and life.
The main point of Romans 6:14-16 is that through faith in Jesus Christ, believers are freed from the dominion of sin. However, this freedom should [[[[ NOT BE ]]]] misinterpreted as a license to sin; rather, it should lead to a life of obedience and righteousness in service to God.
No worries, I wasn't referring to you in particular, but the individuals you used as an example in your post.
Blessings.
1. ** Genesis 3:6-7 (KJV)** - This passage describes the story of Adam and Eve's disobedience in the Garden of Eden: "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked, and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons."
2. ** Psalm 51:5 (KJV)** - In King David's prayer of confession, he says, "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me." This verse is often interpreted as evidence of the inheritance of a sinful nature from birth.
3. ** Romans 5:12 (KJV)** - In the New Testament, the Apostle Paul writes, "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." This verse is often cited to support the idea that all humans inherit a sinful nature from Adam, the first man.
4. ** Ephesians 2:3 (KJV)** - In this passage, Paul describes humanity before coming to faith in Jesus: "Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others." This verse suggests that humans are, by nature, deserving of God's judgment due to their sinful inclinations.
It's worth noting that interpretations of these verses and the doctrine of original sin can vary among Christian denominations..
We are to grow in grace, and therefore, we will certainly live in obedience to God more and more. But, also, the Holy Spirit will show us more and more our sins we are not perceiving. He examines our hearts and reveals to us how we are giving in to the sinful nature. This work of His helps us know how we are to further resist temptation and walk by the Spirit and not by the sinful nature.
"In Those Days"
Zion on which the house of the God of Jacob is founded refers to the latter temple in heaven. The law,- and the word of the Lord, consequently is what drives the temple program and is going on in heaven. So when Jesus said, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up./Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?/But he spake of the temple of his body." ( John 2:19-21).
Thus there is no temple in the conventional sense and Jerusalem is synonymous with other cities judged by God. (Re.11:8).. For this reason the vision of the solid Golden Candlestick in Ze.4 is very crucial. Every believer who abides in Christ must show fruits. He is being fed from the fullness of the seven spirits and he has also two witnesses: his spirit and soul attesting what is his calling. He is priest as well as king unto God in the Son.
Lastly the symbol of mountain spoken by Isaiah is in the context of the Son who isthe rock cut not with hands in the vision interpreted by Daniel. The saints redeemed from the earth are part of the rock and when the apostate church is smashed along with world government nothing of it shall remain. Only the saints shall be left behind to inherit the kingdom of light. It is of the latter days, 'in those days' the earth is under new management: the kingdom of dear Son. What these two passages refer is the Millennium Reign of the latter days.
"In Those Days"
And the inhabitants of one city shall go to another, saying, Let us go speedily to pray before theLord, and to seek theLordof hosts: I will go also./Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek theLordof hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before theLord.
Thus saith theLordof hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you." (8:21-23).
Compare this passage with the passage in the Book of Isaiah. "And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of theLord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it./And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of theLord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of theLordfrom Jerusalem."(Is.2:2-3)
The Spirit sets two prophecies as in the instance the warnings to Judah and Jerusalem from the standpoint of the Father and the Son. The Will of God is irrevocable. The books are opened and judgment is set. Thus the nation of Israel has to come to the level God demands from them. Hence we have this warning in vv.16-17. If they obey to do, God promises to turn their fasting into 'joy and gladness, and cheerful feasts; therefore love the truth and peace.' (8:19).
On the other hand we have this verse attesting their reprobate mind. "Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law." (7:12) So when Isaiah speaks 'For out of Zion shall go forth the law' it is clear. Jerusalem on the earth is dead.
(8) Some who reject their faith and abandon a true relationship with God ( Heb 3:12) may still think they are Christians. However, their spiritual neglect and unconcern toward the demands of Christ, the inner voice of the Holy Spirit and the warnings of Scripture prove that they are in rebellion against God. Because of this possibility of self-deception, Paul urges all those claiming to be spiritually saved to "examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves" ( 2Co 13:5, note).
(9) Those who genuinely become concerned about their spiritual condition and have a desire to return to God in true repentance (i.e., changing one's attitude toward God, admitting sin, turning from one's own way and submitting to God) can be sure that they have not committed the unforgivable sin (cf. Mk 3:29), or ultimate apostasy. God's Word clearly affirms that he does not want anyone to perish or be spiritually lost and separated from him for eternity ( 2Pe 3:9; cf. Isa 1:18-19; 55:6-7). In fact, the heavenly Father will joyfully receive any wayward, rebellious or lost child who truly repents and returns to him (compare Gal 5:4 with 4:19; 1Co 5:1-5 with 2Co 2:5-11; see also Lk 15:11-24; Ro 11:20-23; Jas 5:19-20; Rev 3:14-20; note the example of Peter, Mt 16:16; 26:74-75; Jn 21:15-22).
J. Wesley Adams and Donald C. Stamps, Fire Bible (Springfield, MO: Life Publishers International, 2011), Heb 3:12.
It is my personal belief that this "sin unto death" is the final ultimate apostasy. Similar to final stage cancer at that point is beyond hope and brings Spiritual and eternal death.
(7) It must be emphasized that while spiritual backsliding is a danger for all who drift from faith in Christ ( Heb 2:1-3) and turn away from God (6:6), ultimate apostasy resulting in the hopeless condition described in the previous point does not occur without constant and deliberate resistance against the Holy Spirit (see Mt 12:31, note on sin against the Holy Spirit). Just as we are not saved by our own works and efforts, but by God's grace (see Eph 2:8-9; Tit 3:5), neither are we fully condemned to separation from God by our actions alone (although we will be judged by them; 2Co 5:10). People are saved spiritually by accepting God's grace and putting their faith in Christ; and people are condemned spiritually by rejecting (or simply not accepting) God's grace and refusing to put their faith in Christ (cf. 12:15, 25; Ac 19:19; 2Th 2:10; Rev 16:9). Refusing to have faith in God can be expressed in several ways, including refusing to believe in God, refusing to rely on God, refusing to take God at his Word, refusing to admit the wrongness of our own way, refusing to accept God's way of spiritual salvation through Christ alone and refusing to accept God's help and involvement in our lives. A person who allows his or her heart to become hardened or rebellious toward God by refusing him in any of these ways is in serious danger of rejecting God permanently (3:12).
it appears to me, that they're self explainiable, but to accommodate your request & to get to the point of them all,
sin not, Rom 6:14-16
for where Satan is yielded to in the least, he's still a prince & rules in the darkness, it is his right, sin being his dominion.
REVELATION IN 3 PARTS Past-Present-Future
Revelation 1:19 Write the things which thou hast SEEN, and the things WHICH ARE, and the things which shall be HEREAFTER;
Things which thou hast SEEN ( Rev 1:1-18) things which ARE ( Revelation 2,3) things which shall be HEREAFTER ( Revelation 4:1)
John wrote down what he had seen, in the order in which he saw them.
REV 2,3 'WHICH ARE' CHURCHES IN JOHNS TIME/CHURCHES TODAY
Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth
Rapture 'seizing and carrying off'
There have been raptures already just by the definition above, more yet to come.
Enoch, Elijah, Captives free in the OT are 'raptures'
RAPTURES DURING THE GREAT TRIBULATION.
(Disclaimer: John wrote it) Those who repent during tribulation before the 7th seal, later 144,000 and Two witnesses. Salvation will be available to those who ask for God's grace before the 7th seal though they must endure the first 6 seals.
REV 4:1 RAPTURE/TRIB (Dead in Christ rise first, they which are alive) 6 SEALS ( REV 7:14 Great multitude..'out of' meaning within. Two Witnesses, 144,000 man child)
TODAY IS THE DAY OF SALVATION SEEK HIM WHILE HE MAY BE FOUND!
Mark 13:32 -But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
RAPTURE/START OF TRIBULATION ( Rev 4:2/19:11-21) 2ND COMING OF CHRIST
Chapter 7 starts 'after these' so chapters 4,5,6 have happened.
LITTLE HORN UPROOTS 3 NATIONS, AND OTHER 6 FALL IN LINE. AFTER 3.5 YEARS OF WAR.
Zechariah 14:16-23 - After Tribulation 'Those that left' 'year to year' for 1000 years. Will live, age, multiply and die. In Heaven until 1000 years are up. These nations satan will be let loose to deceive the nations one last time.
NOT THOSE RAPTURED SAINTS WITH CHRIST 2ND Coming, THEY WILL BE ETERNAL
.
Present your position whatever that may be and show us exactly how these verses support that position exactly.
"Two Olive Branches"
In order to answer the significance we have Jesus Christ set here as the Branch. In him is the 'counsel of peace' the fusion of priest-king. These branches from him supply the fulness of our royal office and priesthood. In him we are priests and kings unto God. It is a promise and it comes with conditions. For this reason we have this warning from both the Father and the Son. This is the forerunner of the indwelling Spirit as the earnest of our inheritance.
"11.But they refused to hearken, and pulled away the shoulder, and stopped their ears, that they should not hear./12Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law, and the words which theLordof hosts hath sent in his spirit by the former prophets: therefore came a great wrath from theLordof hosts."
This wrath we know is the great tribulation predicted by the prophets.
"Two Olive Branches"
"These are the things that ye shall do; Speak ye every man the truth to his neighbour; execute the judgment of truth and peace in your gates:/And let none of you imagine evil in your hearts against his neighbour; and love no false oath: for all these are things that I hate, saith theLord." The Spirit is giving this warning to Israel which is from the Lord God.
Compare the above with these verses almost a repetition, (7:8-12)"And the word of theLordcame unto Zechariah, saying,/Thus speaketh theLordof hosts, saying, Execute true judgment, and shew mercy and compassions every man to his brother:/And oppress not the widow, nor the fatherless, the stranger, nor the poor; and let none of you imagine evil against his brother in your heart."
And the word of the Lord came to Zechariah which is from the standpoint of the Son. in whose hand is the plummet. Zerubabbel serves as the double for the Son."The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that theLordof hosts hath sent me unto you./For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of theLord, which run to and fro through the whole earth.(4:9-10). Thereafter the Spirit shows the two anointed ones, which are the olive brances and not the trees themselves,"two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?"(4:12)
"Garment of Praise"
This New Age had been determined in the divine Will. In heaven we have a temple building set rolling and Jesus came into his own, "He came unto his own, and his own received him not." ( John 1:11). The incident in the synagogue was not accidental. God did know who were His and who were reprobate silver. Jesus was announcing the Year of deliverance, the year in the Lexicon of the Spirit time element has a different significance than the earth time as we know it. "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one dayiswith the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."(2 Pe.3:8)
"To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified" (Is.61:3).
The fasts mentioned in the key verse refers to:
On the fourth month the children of Israel observed fast: mourning the capture of Jerusalem (Je.52:6-30)
On the fifth they fasted, Burning of Jerusalem and the destruction of Solomon's Temple (2 Ki.25:2-10)
On the seventh it was on account of the Assassination of Gedaliah and the massacre of 80 men. (Je.41:1-10)
And on the tenth month it was to remember the beginning of Nebuchadnezzar's siege against Jerusalem. (2 Ki.25:1)
"Garment of Praise"
"And the word of theLordof hosts came unto me, saying,/Thus saith theLordof hosts; The fast of the fourth month, and the fast of the fifth, and the fast of the seventh, and the fast of the tenth, shall be to the house of Judah joy and gladness, and cheerful feasts; therefore love the truth and peace."
How does fasting is turned into gladness? "Thou hast turned for me my mourning into dancing: thou hast put off my sackcloth, and girded me with gladness." (Ps.30:11) It is what God can do, none else. Least of all by traditions of men.
Here we see traditions of men indulging in meaningless observances much mumbo-jumbo to distract the heart from true repentance. Seventy years in exile did not cure Israel of their disobedience. "Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law, and the words which theLordof hosts hath sent in his spirit by the former prophets." Zechariah would be a martyr reasons for which are not difficult to fathom. They had to have a new spirit: in order to arrive there the nation of Israel had to love truth and peace.
Jesus before he would begin the ministry went to the synagogue in Nazareth, He was there announcing a new age.* "The Spirit of the Lord GODisupon me;" His declaration of liberty to those who were bound was not a spur of the moment. He was there to lay the foundation for the temple that shall be revealed in the latter days. He was exhorting all hands to be partakers for it. At the end of it what happened? "And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath,/And rose up, and thrust him out of the city, and led him unto the brow of the hill whereon their city was built, that they might cast him down headlong./But he passing through the midst of them went his way." ( Luke 4:27-30)
Yet it is the Lord's doing and Prophet Zechariah predicts the Millennial Reign,
When I made that statement I was speaking in a general sense. I see what you mean, but to be honest I don't think either of us will know for sure how the "mechanics" of how that may work. We can only go by what Scripture states or reveals to us. You might be correct for those who sin and didn't repent before they died unexpectedly.. We just don't have an exact explanation or example or parable for us to enlight us further to a situation such as that. So I'm afraid we have to assume a bit. Kinda brings to mind something I read from Spurgeon about the "sin that leads to death" found in 1 John 5:16-17 some things we just don't know?Refer to his "illustration" below:
5:16-17 "There is sin that leads to death.... All unrighteousness is sin." Perhaps someone thinks he has committed this unpardonable sin and is at this moment grieving over it. If so, it is clear that he cannot have committed the "sin that leads to death," or else he could not grieve over it. Whoever repents of sin and trusts in Jesus Christ is freely and fully forgiven; therefore, he has clearly not committed a sin that will not be forgiven. There is much in this passage to make us prayerful and watchful, but there is nothing here to make a troubled heart feel anything like despair.
ILLUSTRATION 5:16
An owner of a country estate may put up a sign that reads, "Danger: Beware of traps and spring guns." No one would think of going to the front door of the mansion and saying, "Would you please tell me where the traps and spring guns are set?" If we asked that question, the answer would be, "The purpose of this warning is not to tell you where they are, for you have no business to trespass there at all." So "all unrighteousness is sin," and we are warned to keep clear of it. "There is sin that leads to death," but we are not told what that sin is on purpose that we may, by the grace of God, keep clear of sin altogether.
Lets keep the discussion going.
In your post you wrote, "Post-baptismal sin can not make anyone lose their salvation... Only individual apostasy can do that".
I disagree. An imaginary story: A christian dies. He (or she) was a good christian, he followed Jesus all the way, kept the faith, strived to live rightously BUT he left some issues in his life unsolved. Maybe he was feeling hostile towards that neighbor because that neighbor did something to him, and he can't get over it or don't want to get over it and forgive that neighbor. Maybe he was unjust towards a person, maybe he cheated the state by not paying his fair share of taxes he should had done. Maybe he was looking passionately at that woman neighbor and didn't try to fight and cut that feeling off. Anything really. Any issue which was not cleared before he goes. Do you think he is still eligible to enter heaven? In my opinion no, he will not get there because he died in an unrepentant state. He didn't repend about those sins although he had done everything else properly. So, in my opinion, post-baptismal sin can lead you to hell as long as we are not willing to fix some issues. And since we do not know the day and time of our death/rapture (pre or post doesn't make any difference) we must always be in a repentance mode and not only that but in a mood to fix/restore practically out relationships with all those we have problems with. So it is not only individual apostasy that makes you lose your soul, it is more than that.
Then As Now
We have come to the distressing times as Jerusalem faced with the Chaldeans at the gates. God's word to Zechariah is relevant for us,"Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law, and the words which theLordof hosts hath sent in his spirit by the former prophets: therefore came a great wrath from theLordof hosts./Therefore it is come to pass, that as he cried, and they would not hear; so they cried, and I would not hear, saith theLordof hosts:"(7:12-13)
Then As Now
And it came to pass in the fourth year of king Darius, that the word of theLordcame unto Zechariah in the fourth day of the ninth month, even in Chisleu;/When they had sent unto the house of God Sherezer and Regemmelech, and their men, to pray before theLord,/And to speak unto the priests which were in the house of theLordof hosts, and to the prophets, saying, Should I weep in the fifth month, separating myself, as I have done these so many years? (vv.1-3)
On December 4, 518 B.C. a delegation came to Jerusalem with a question about fasting. At this point, the temple was somewhere around halfway completed. Against this the Zechariah receives the word of God that forms the gist of this chapter.
4Then came the word of theLordof hosts unto me, saying,/Speak unto all the people of the land, and to the priests, saying, When ye fasted and mourned in the fifth and seventh month, even those seventy years, did ye at all fast unto me, even to me?
God did not institute these fastings to commemorate their disobedience and consequences. For instance we have in the Book of Jeremiah the assasination of Gedaliah and mass murder of 80 men (Je.41:1-10)
6And when ye did eat, and when ye did drink, did not ye eat for yourselves, and drink for yourselves?
7Should ye not hear the words which theLordhath cried by the former prophets, when Jerusalem was inhabited and in prosperity, and the cities thereof round about her, when men inhabited the south and the plain?
vv.6-7 God noticed those who enquired of the Lord were approaching in their need and they were no different than those who were in the days of Jesus, "These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me./They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.' (Matt.15:8-9). The same superficiality which we see.
Counsel of Peace
vv.9-15 we see the narrative mode of the Spirit by which what is of specific concern of the day faced Joshua the high priest and Zerubabbel is tied up with the glory of the latter day temple. "Behold the man whose name is TheBranch; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of theLord:/Even he shall build the temple of theLord; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both." Jesus Christ as a tender plant,'he shall grow up out of his place' sets him in context of Prophet Isaiah's prophecy,"For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground."-Is.53:2) Zechariah conflates two prophecies from Isaiah which is what the Spirit revealed to him. "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."(Is.9:6)
"And he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne." As the Branch it is decreed Jesus Christ is the Prince of Peace,- that both priest and king, 'shall have the counsel of peace' in his office. Glory of the Temple springs forth him and from his throne. The Spirit here predicts the Millennial Reign and of New Jerusalem.
Also significant is the condition laid at the end, "And this shall come to pass, if ye will diligently obey the voice of theLordyour God."
In the inaugural vision of Zechariah Ze.1: 8-17 we scame across four chariots and horses mentioned and here we have Seven Spirits refer to the Spirit of Christ (Re.ch.5:6)
The composite emblem of chariots and horses are symbolic of conflict and engines of war where the Spirit is conducting the operation. From the passage the world at ease owed to the Silence of half an hour in heaven. It was apparently a lull before the storm. The Spirit is on a mopping up operation. The result of is what presented here. The angel of the Lord tells Zechariah, "Then cried he upon me, and spake unto me, saying, Behold, these that go toward the north country have quieted my spirit in the north country." It is thus with each direction. When Spirit sets them walking the earth to and fro they set in motion and these shall control history of nations. "So shall they fear the name of theLordfrom the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of theLordshall lift up a standard against him(Is.59:19).
These four spirits where number 4 has specific purpose as the four angels that are prepared for His purpose..This we can understand from this passage, "Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates./And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men./And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.(Re.9:14-16)" Legions that are at bidding is like a flood and the Spirit shall lift his standard.