GRACE_ambassador Asleep Awaiting resurrection - In Reply on 2 Timothy 3 - 2 years ago
Precious Rick asks a Great question "If the dead are already risen and are in heaven then why is the church the body of Christ going to be Raised and meet him in the air in new incorruptible bodies like His In Thessalonians who are the just and unjust that will be raised in the book of revelation?"
Thanks So Much! What Saith The Scripture?
Part I Asleep Awaiting resurrection
1) A 'General' (not 'specific') prophecy:
Dan 12:2 "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."
'Some' believe: "BOTH At The SAME time." But, 'Impossible' According To Scripture:
2) 'Specifics' of the general prophecy of resurrection:
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead (unjust) lived not again ( Rev 20:11-15) until the thousand years were finished...
...This is the first resurrection ("...they lived..." v. 4) . Blessed and holy is he (the just) that hath part in the first 'prophetic' resurrection: on such The Second Death ( Rev 20:15) hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. Rev 20:6
These 'prophecies' Must Not 'Be Confused (Wrongly COMBINED)' with, But Must Be Rightly Divided 2 Timothy 2:15 FROM:
GRACE_ambassador Asleep Awaiting resurrection - In Reply on 2 Timothy 3 - 2 years ago
Part II Asleep Awaiting resurrection
God's 'Prophetic' Program For ISRAEL (see Part I)
Rightly Divided 2 Timothy 2:15 FROM
God's "Revelation Of The MYSTERY (Secret)," for The Body Of CHRIST
3)...Which Has The Following "Specific" 'resurrection/rapture' of ONLY (the just) 'GRACE believers' "who 'SLEEP In Jesus'" AND, at the same time, "we who ARE ALIVE and remain" 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 And 1 Corinthians 15:51-57
Thus, 'these ASLEEP' are NOT 'risen and in heaven,' (Rick, I apologize IF I 'implied' this somewhere), but, are Only the "Conscious Departed souls/spirits" RESTING In Jesus, in Heaven WITH Him, awaiting resurrection (to "Be Brought" and Be Reunited 'with their BODIES' from the graves, and "Changed Into Incorruptible"), According to Plain and Clear Scripture:
"...them also which sleep in JESUS Will 'God Bring With' Him." 1 Thessalonians 4:14 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-57 (Rightly Divided, NOT 'Confused' with Revelation to John, For ISRAEL)
Thus, the answer to the question "the deceased are already with Jesus"? Still stands, According to 2 Corinthians 5:6,8 and Philippians 1:21,23 = God's 'Answer Is YES!'
Perchance there is a 'Different' interpretation that I Cannot see, for "...them also which sleep in JESUS Will 'God Bring With' Him." 1 Thessalonians 4:14 ???
Precious Rick, and all Precious friends, Please Be Encouraged In CHRIST, And HIS Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!
More "study" of 'Distinctions' between Prophecy and MYSTERY: Link
GRACE_ambassador {ChrisE} death And departure - In Reply on 2 Timothy 3 - 2 years ago
Precious Lystra, 1) "the deceased are already with Jesus"? According to 2 Corinthians 5:6,8 and Philippians 1:21,23 = God's 'Answer Is YES!' Else Then this verse is 'false', Correct?
1 Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in JESUS Will God Bring With Him."
IF "dying is not gain," and to "to depart 'to Be With CHRIST' is not Far Better," then, of course, the Above verse would NOT be true, Correct?
2) "'theory' of God's rapture, According to His 'Secret'"?:
Praying Hopefully that this 4-Part Bible study will help Encourage you with your Very Important Question about God's 'Sound' Doctrine, Great GRACE Departure: Link
Precious Lystra, Please Be Very 'Richly' Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified! 2 Timothy 2:15Romans 16:25Ephesians 3:9 = Grace/Mystery fellowship {Romans - Philemon}, For ALL "to SEE," today,?
Sometimes the Holy Spirit whispers (your raised brow) and sometimes a two by four to the back of the head. No thanks to me, the Holy Spirit will guide us if we humble ourselves as we know nothing and accept the truth even if the whole world says different.
God bless and may the Holy Spirit of truth guide your study.
I have always been concerned about this theory of the secret rapture that many believe in. Just two days ago I was viewing a funeral service and it was mentioned. But that and several other things that the priestess said raised my brows and made me exclaim "what???" out loud. The Bible explicitly tells us about the state of the dead. But here was this female preacher telling the attendees that the deceased was already with Jesus. Yours sir, is so far the only explanation that makes sense; and for this, I thank you immensely!
You are now going into scripture that has no meaning to this topic, and with the connotation of your posts, I humbly say we have come to a place to lovingly end the discussion; we do disagree on the rapture of the Church and being carried to heaven. All I did was point to a scripture you may study concerning the 70th week that is placed in this theory or doctrine that you may look at to study for the truth, if you are confident in this teaching with no need to study that is your choice.
Sorry for using the word feel, it was not meant to suggest anything other than your belief or your understanding of the rapture of the Church that is taught. I just pointed out scripture on part of the rapture as taught I thought you may study. If we do not pray and study what we are taught, we are accountable. The definition of deceive; is to accept as true or valid what is false or invalid.
This was the first thing Jesus said after the disciples asked about the destruction of the temple.
Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Thank you, I enjoy and benefit from your posts. I know many feel the same as you on the rapture of the Church. Not to debate but something you may check out, Daniel 9:25 tells us it will be 69 weeks from the commandment to rebuild Jerusalem unto the Messiah. We know Jesus' ministry was three-and one-half years. So, by scripture half of the seventieth week was fulfilled when Jesus was crucified (cut off), the other half has also been fulfilled, check it out. No need to reply in the love of Christ.
Are you being facetious when you say "Christ's third coming" with the Saints?
Is there an event in-between Christ's resurrection and Christ standing on Mount Zion with his army of saints? Luke 17:34-37 makes it clear that the "taken" are dead with buzzards circling overhead. It's the Day of the Lord when 1/3 of mankind parishes, no one gets a free pass out.
Why at the second coming do you say Christ will not touch the earth while in charge of the Saints. Are you accounting for a man made rapture, to skip out on your appointed death? Why would God rapture born sinners when most saints are appointed death?
Did you alter scripture, or am I not understanding what you are saying? Please explain this interpretation.
I love looking at the sky also, I had a dream, I guess it was a dream, when I was young standing under a tree, it must have been in the fall or winter because there were no leaves on the tree. I was looking at the sky and it was like a knife was cutting it open and it opened like a zipper. I still get goose bumps when I think of it. I will check out Gevte I think I have watched some of them before.
God bless, keep looking up, Jesus told us to watch.
There are different understandings, Preterist, Historicist, Idealist/Spiritual, Dispensationalist, and Futurist interpretation of the end times, things that are taught that will happen. Your question of pre, mid, or post is based on when the Church will be taken to heaven to be spared the tribulation. When did this theory or doctrine start? There are some writings before, but the roots started in the late 17th century but were made popular by John Darby and C.I. Scofield with the study bible with footnotes helped promote the doctrine.
You as well as many on this site may believe this theory and out of love, I just ask that you study this for the truth. For those like me in the upper age group may not still be living but those who will be when these things start many will be lost if this theory is wrong.
The pre, mid, and post is based on taking the 70th week of the prophecy given to Daniel 9:24-27, and verse 27 is interpreted to be the 70th week and moved to the end time, the he in this verse is the antichrist, and seven years are placed at the end time, and your question is before, in the middle, or at the end of the tribulation.
Does scripture tell us we will be spared tribulation or the wrath of God, are they the same?
If the 70-week prophecy given to Daniel has been fulfilled what does this do to this theory?
Does scripture say there will be a third coming or just the second coming of Jesus?
Does 1 Thessalonians 4:17-18 tell us our destination after we meet Jesus in the air?
If the falling away and the son of perdition is revealed happens before Jesus returns, can there be a rapture before these two things happen?
These are just a few questions, is this theory true or part of the delusion?
Did God spare all the ones before us from tribulation?
Our hope is eternal life in Jesus Christ not being saved from the death of this fleshly body.
What is the right principle of the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ? Regarding the "rapture" of the saints. Is it pre-trib mid-trib or post trib principle? I need an answer pls....
Hi there, these verses in 1 Timothy 3:15-17 are verses I have memorized as well. One way I memorized them was to make them into a melody that matched the cadence of my walking steps. That way, when I go for walk I can sing the verse along the way.
This verse teaches me to love Scripture and to believe that it contains the words of eternal life. Therefore, knowing them will always help us.
These verses God gave me and I kept them in my heart for decades .
They have preserved me more than I can tell . The devil is defeated by scriptures in truth . As Jesus did during his temptations. Very direct and no spin was needed . Don't ya just love the word of God !
Thanks So Much! What Saith The Scripture?
Part I Asleep Awaiting resurrection
1) A 'General' (not 'specific') prophecy:
Dan 12:2 "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."
'Some' believe: "BOTH At The SAME time." But, 'Impossible' According To Scripture:
2) 'Specifics' of the general prophecy of resurrection:
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead (unjust) lived not again ( Rev 20:11-15) until the thousand years were finished...
...This is the first resurrection ("...they lived..." v. 4) . Blessed and holy is he (the just) that hath part in the first 'prophetic' resurrection: on such The Second Death ( Rev 20:15) hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. Rev 20:6
These 'prophecies' Must Not 'Be Confused (Wrongly COMBINED)' with, But Must Be Rightly Divided 2 Timothy 2:15 FROM:
God's "Revelation Of The MYSTERY!"
To be continued
God's 'Prophetic' Program For ISRAEL (see Part I)
Rightly Divided 2 Timothy 2:15 FROM
God's "Revelation Of The MYSTERY (Secret)," for The Body Of CHRIST
3)...Which Has The Following "Specific" 'resurrection/rapture' of ONLY (the just) 'GRACE believers' "who 'SLEEP In Jesus'" AND, at the same time, "we who ARE ALIVE and remain" 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 And 1 Corinthians 15:51-57
Thus, 'these ASLEEP' are NOT 'risen and in heaven,' (Rick, I apologize IF I 'implied' this somewhere), but, are Only the "Conscious Departed souls/spirits" RESTING In Jesus, in Heaven WITH Him, awaiting resurrection (to "Be Brought" and Be Reunited 'with their BODIES' from the graves, and "Changed Into Incorruptible"), According to Plain and Clear Scripture:
"...them also which sleep in JESUS Will 'God Bring With' Him." 1 Thessalonians 4:14 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-57 (Rightly Divided, NOT 'Confused' with Revelation to John, For ISRAEL)
Thus, the answer to the question "the deceased are already with Jesus"? Still stands, According to 2 Corinthians 5:6,8 and Philippians 1:21,23 = God's 'Answer Is YES!'
Perchance there is a 'Different' interpretation that I Cannot see, for "...them also which sleep in JESUS Will 'God Bring With' Him." 1 Thessalonians 4:14 ???
Precious Rick, and all Precious friends, Please Be Encouraged In CHRIST, And HIS Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!
More "study" of 'Distinctions' between Prophecy and MYSTERY: Link
church the body of Christ going to be Raised and meet him in the air in new incorruptible bodies like His
In Thessalonians who are the just and unjust that will be raised in the book of revelation?
1 Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in JESUS Will God Bring With Him."
IF "dying is not gain," and to "to depart 'to Be With CHRIST' is not Far Better," then, of course, the Above verse would NOT be true, Correct?
2) "'theory' of God's rapture, According to His 'Secret'"?:
Praying Hopefully that this 4-Part Bible study will help Encourage you with your Very Important Question about God's 'Sound' Doctrine, Great GRACE Departure: Link
Precious Lystra, Please Be Very 'Richly' Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified! 2 Timothy 2:15 Romans 16:25 Ephesians 3:9 = Grace/Mystery fellowship {Romans - Philemon}, For ALL "to SEE," today,?
God's 'Simple' Will: Link
Sometimes the Holy Spirit whispers (your raised brow) and sometimes a two by four to the back of the head. No thanks to me, the Holy Spirit will guide us if we humble ourselves as we know nothing and accept the truth even if the whole world says different.
God bless and may the Holy Spirit of truth guide your study.
RLW
thanks God Bless moving on.
You are now going into scripture that has no meaning to this topic, and with the connotation of your posts, I humbly say we have come to a place to lovingly end the discussion; we do disagree on the rapture of the Church and being carried to heaven. All I did was point to a scripture you may study concerning the 70th week that is placed in this theory or doctrine that you may look at to study for the truth, if you are confident in this teaching with no need to study that is your choice.
RLW
initial ministry was to the lost sheep of the house of Israel so a lot of things he taught were addressing
them I'm not saying that what he shared did not apply at all to us some does and some doesn't. When it
comes to Gods Word I'm careful to whom is something written to, it does make a difference. He came to
fulfill the law which in practice ended at the cross because Christ put an end to the curse of the law.
Day of pentecost started the Age of grace which walking again by the spirit 24/7 we complete the law
because walking by the spirit fulfills all the law. But again its your privilege to believe what you will.
judged but in a different area they agree and your great so I take what you said with a grain of salt. I have not
found two people on this site that agreed on all fields of scripture because either the theologians they learned
from or books they read also differ on same subject matter. As I stated before simply Christ came 1st Time birth
ministry death resurrection right hand Gods throne. 2nd time the gathering Together 2 Thess. 2:1 then 7-12 ,
those who believed not the truth will be left we the saints who believed the Body of Christ will be gathered
together Christ will not touch down then in the appearing which is what revelation was called first after other
events take place Christ comes back with us His body I.E. Jews and Gentiles the Mystery same spiritual body
and the telos or the very end will be near. P.S. I saw all your Time frames and referenced verses and like I'll
state to anyone its your privilege to believe what you will, and mine also no judgement from me.
Sorry for using the word feel, it was not meant to suggest anything other than your belief or your understanding of the rapture of the Church that is taught. I just pointed out scripture on part of the rapture as taught I thought you may study. If we do not pray and study what we are taught, we are accountable. The definition of deceive; is to accept as true or valid what is false or invalid.
This was the first thing Jesus said after the disciples asked about the destruction of the temple.
Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Have a great day in love.
God bless,
RLW
forever, remember spirit is willing flesh is weak. Feelings are needed for our walk but shouldn't dictate our
walk and shouldn't dictate the truth of scripture or our actions. God Bless
Thank you, I enjoy and benefit from your posts. I know many feel the same as you on the rapture of the Church. Not to debate but something you may check out, Daniel 9:25 tells us it will be 69 weeks from the commandment to rebuild Jerusalem unto the Messiah. We know Jesus' ministry was three-and one-half years. So, by scripture half of the seventieth week was fulfilled when Jesus was crucified (cut off), the other half has also been fulfilled, check it out. No need to reply in the love of Christ.
God Bless,
RLW
Are you being facetious when you say "Christ's third coming" with the Saints?
Is there an event in-between Christ's resurrection and Christ standing on Mount Zion with his army of saints? Luke 17:34-37 makes it clear that the "taken" are dead with buzzards circling overhead. It's the Day of the Lord when 1/3 of mankind parishes, no one gets a free pass out.
Why at the second coming do you say Christ will not touch the earth while in charge of the Saints. Are you accounting for a man made rapture, to skip out on your appointed death? Why would God rapture born sinners when most saints are appointed death?
Did you alter scripture, or am I not understanding what you are saying? Please explain this interpretation.
I love looking at the sky also, I had a dream, I guess it was a dream, when I was young standing under a tree, it must have been in the fall or winter because there were no leaves on the tree. I was looking at the sky and it was like a knife was cutting it open and it opened like a zipper. I still get goose bumps when I think of it. I will check out Gevte I think I have watched some of them before.
God bless, keep looking up, Jesus told us to watch.
RLW
God bless,
RLW
2nd Coming Coming down not touching down and Gathering the church together, 3rd Coming Apocalypse with,
the resurrected Saints His body to kick the enemies keester.
When I compare that with, "Look up-your redemption draws nigh thee"
I sit outside a lot.
There are different understandings, Preterist, Historicist, Idealist/Spiritual, Dispensationalist, and Futurist interpretation of the end times, things that are taught that will happen. Your question of pre, mid, or post is based on when the Church will be taken to heaven to be spared the tribulation. When did this theory or doctrine start? There are some writings before, but the roots started in the late 17th century but were made popular by John Darby and C.I. Scofield with the study bible with footnotes helped promote the doctrine.
You as well as many on this site may believe this theory and out of love, I just ask that you study this for the truth. For those like me in the upper age group may not still be living but those who will be when these things start many will be lost if this theory is wrong.
The pre, mid, and post is based on taking the 70th week of the prophecy given to Daniel 9:24-27, and verse 27 is interpreted to be the 70th week and moved to the end time, the he in this verse is the antichrist, and seven years are placed at the end time, and your question is before, in the middle, or at the end of the tribulation.
Does scripture tell us we will be spared tribulation or the wrath of God, are they the same?
If the 70-week prophecy given to Daniel has been fulfilled what does this do to this theory?
Does scripture say there will be a third coming or just the second coming of Jesus?
Does 1 Thessalonians 4:17-18 tell us our destination after we meet Jesus in the air?
If the falling away and the son of perdition is revealed happens before Jesus returns, can there be a rapture before these two things happen?
These are just a few questions, is this theory true or part of the delusion?
Did God spare all the ones before us from tribulation?
Our hope is eternal life in Jesus Christ not being saved from the death of this fleshly body.
May our ears be open to the Spirit of truth.
God bless,
RLW
( 1 Thessalonians 5:9)
that do not believe to come during the tribulation period, in other words we're outta here.
This verse teaches me to love Scripture and to believe that it contains the words of eternal life. Therefore, knowing them will always help us.
God bless you.
These verses God gave me and I kept them in my heart for decades .
They have preserved me more than I can tell . The devil is defeated by scriptures in truth . As Jesus did during his temptations. Very direct and no spin was needed . Don't ya just love the word of God !
Show me in the bible ! Amen