2 Thessalonians Chapter 2 Discussion Page 8

Ivan (lastly); I didn't mean to say that YOU in particular, are not of God; but I was trying to demonstrate the point by Jesus' words, that it is an inner response to His Spirit, Light, and conviction of the truth, that men are either for Him or against Him. NEVER ANYWHERE has it proved true, that once men have physical "proof" or scientific verification, that they will repent and be converted.

Ivan (cont.); When the Lord commands us to be perfect just like our Father in heaven is perfect; it means we are to be good and love BECAUSE we are good and we walk in love; not for a reflex or reaction to what people do to us or for what we might get in return. So too with the LORD's gifts of healing and answers to prayer; He heals because He is good and loves; not to prove Himself or show off.

Ivan (cont.); When Jesus was contending with the disobedient Jews, He told them that they were of the devil; because they like the devil had no truth in them, and stood not in the truth; because they sought to kill Him for speaking the truth; and when Jesus spoke the truth, they did not believe. ( John 8). And again, "Blessed are they who have not seen, and yet believe." Faith comes by hearing.

Dear Ivan; you wrote me recently, in reply to my answers about signs and wonders NOT being the irrefutable sign of God's approval; and you said, "..Words are not enough." But Jesus said all contrary to that thought. "He that is of God HEARS GOD'S WORDS; you therefore hear them not, because you are not of God." God has ordained that we be saved by believing the words preached, and receiving Light.

Ivan; You have to use discernment, and check the person out. Theatrics and showmanship is not the power of the Glad Tidings, but the work of God's Spirit on the inner man to awaken to life from the dead repent and be converted, and to show forth the completeness of the Word. "I and the children which God has given me are for signs and wonders in Israel." God wants to show works of Power in us!

A Disciple. Jesus and His disciples preached the gospel with sign and wonders and that is what brought revival and souls to the kingdom. Words are not enough. A true believer full of the Spirit will walk in holiness and power. The signs that the devil performs does not draw people to Jesus, but to the person. It is very simple to tell the difference. Don't change the gospel. It is with power.

Verse 2~After we have carefully reasoned on a matter we must guard against become quickly shaken in our faith.

Word; I saw something you wrote recently, and I want to show you; the fire and hail stones rained down from heaven will destroy ALL THE CITIES OF THE NATIONS! Not Jerusalem! There will be an earthquake, and hailstones weighing 90-120 lbs. each, the heavens rolling together like a scroll, the Lord Jesus in a garment dipped in blood riding in front of all the armies of holy angels coming in clouds.

Ivan (cont.); "The Basics" are, "Love out of a pure heart, and a good conscience toward God and man, and faith with out hypocrisy." These are the elements of Truth and Grace wrought by God, that reflect in the heart and life of the Saint. The works of power which the Lord did on the sick and all who were oppressed of the devil, were signs of the completeness of health in salvation by His Presence.

Word is 100% right! The fairly new teaching of a pre-tribulation rapture is NOT "the sign" of the beginning of the "great tribulation." There are a number of things that must happen, that are plainly told to us from the Lord: a great falling away from the faith, and turning instead to fables and self; the earth filled with violence and utterly corrupt; worldwide hatred and slaughter of Christians.

Ivan (cont.); Signs and wonders do not guarantee the vessel or the message is from God; what is manner of life? Is it according to the word and the Spirit? Do you know the Scripture about devils working signs to deceive? Many were openly disobedient and unholy, yet the multitudes came to see the miracles and the show. But if a humble brother or sister walks in the truth, no one comes running!

Ivan; The first Harvest is the first resurrection (blessed and holy are they); the second being that of the final day of judgment before the Great White Throne. There were many charlatans misled and disobedient in the so-called Revivals of the early nineteen hundreds; turning the real gifts of a very few into another gospel and a show. The power of God is for us to overcome the world like Jesus!

Word. I am convinced that the deceivers are the ones who do not preach the "first harvest" translation. This believe was held strongly by the leaders of past revivals whom the Lord honored by His glory and presence with signs and wonders. Today the church has a lot of word, but very little power. Let's get back to the basics.

Word. What do you think is withholding the man of sin from appearing? verses 6

I'm saying is don't let man of any kind deceive you. Meaning preachers preaching rapture, not so we all go through the test because Christ comes here to set up His Kingdom at the 7th trump and fire and hail stones to flatten Jerusalem. Don't let anyone tell you Jesus is coming first because the first one is a false messiah who claims to be God and has supernatural powers. Wait,

C yes Satan comes at the 6th trump With two horns of power, can bring lightning down from the sky and more things when the world sees him performing powerful tricks and he stands in Jerusalem claiming he is God for the 2 and a half months that he will be here out of the 5 months it was shorten to,then the world, its people will go chasing after him thinking he is Christ. Don't go! Store food,WAIT

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Vs 4. "he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God." God is not worshipped in temples made by hands ( Acts 7:48). Nor is he worshipped with men's hands ( Acts 17:24-25). The church is the temple of the Lord, 1 Cor 3:16-17. 1 Cor 6:19, 2 Cor 6:16. Rev 21:3. The place we worship, is nothing to God. For God will be worshipped only in Spirit, and in truth. John 4:24.

Verse 2- once we have reasoned on a matter we must guard against being quickly shaken.

Yes those that are not taken in by the false messiah make a stand and are delivered up to death, which is Satan. They know that he is a fake messiah and when delivered up the Holy Spirit speaks through them so listen to what they say. Don't listen to rapture fly away or that Christ comes for some early that's where your running with the devil. Satan comes claiming he is God at the 6th trump.. Wait

There will be a falling away first, 6th trump,when the false messiah comes and the world and all the fake preachers who claim that Christ has returned and Satan with his power can bring down lighting and other such things standing in Jerusalem claiming he is God he takes over the world with a one world system and the losers will say Jesus has returned we are not a widow no longer. THEN 7th trump.

That's why God say stand and doing all to stand, stand be grounded iin the word of God.

Hubert; The way I read it, every indication from Scripture is that the Coming of the Lord and the Catching Away of the Saints is all one event. Why else would the Lord warn us to not let men mislead us about there having to be a falling away first and the man of sin be revealed; and that we must endure to the end and be faithful unto death? After Noah entered the ark God didn't wait seven years!

The coming of the Lord, and the catching away of his bride is two different events, when the second coming of the Lord appears the church has already been raptured the church is already with him in heaven for he is coming back with ten thousands and thousands of his Saints

there shall have no other gods before me; in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the word was God

"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, that ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled.." We are grateful for the small times of quiet and happiness; yet even in these we know there is certainly evil and trouble coming on the horizon. We have to walk with our hearts and minds with Christ in heaven Who is our expectation!

There are 2 mysteries in the Bible-the mystery of godliness, that the divine Son of God lay off his divinity to put on sinful human nature in order to redeem mankind

4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple. God had chosen all of us to saved, but some will reject and some will fall.

Read subject, first verse because the whole chapter is explaining exactly what will take place at the very end.It is saying that before the Lord comes that the son of perdition/ Satan will come and the whole world will chase after him an many Christians will be deceived right along with them, falling away so if they tell you Christ is here or there don't go because it's not Him.Put it all together

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition This verse is talking about the tribulation that the antichrist will reveal himself. It will be easier to fall from sin in the 7 year tribulation then the Grace of age we live right now.