I give a Tenth. It is what God laid on My Heart from the beginning. But Look at Scripture and Elisha who poured out into the vessels continuously of oil. Her Husband a Man of God died Penniless, broke. Peter said , Silver and Gold have I None but Such as I have I give unto Thee Rise and Walk in the Name of Jesus of Nazerath. Jesus was a proponent for the poor. So much that He began His Ministry by saying, He has Anointed Me to Preach the Gospel to the Poor.
A visitor to a large Church wandered into a back room accidentally. In this room were Money Counters and a Enormous amount of money laid across the tables. He was embarrassed and apologized and the Counters were shocked that someone would walk in. One of the Counters trying to get rid of the awkwardness said , Well The Church can't say Silver and Gold have I None anymore. As He closed the door, God spoke to Him and He stuck His head back around and said, No and neither can They say Rise and Walk in The Name of Jesus. The Tenth is upheld by a Religious Organization that mirrors that of Christ's day. Burdens too Grievous to be bourne for so Many. I am a Minister,a Pastor. I understand the Financial needs of the Church. But this Doctrine of not paying a Tenth is Jeopardizing Your Soul or if you only pay a fifth, etc,just keep it. You are going to be Cursed and Die and go to Hell is Blasphemous. It's Rejecting the Works and Salvation of God. Paul said to Give as You have Prospered . Jesus said whatever You have freely received then freely give. Now,,, if You are willing to Walk by Faith and not by SIGHT and trust God. You will begin to give beyond Your means. Not because of a Denomination or Man or Pressure. But God is going to deal with You and test You and see if You are Trustworthy. The reason a lot of People don't have much or struggle financially continually even in the Church is because They are not Givers. I gave 20 dollars in 1996 when I had literally 23 dollars. God put the 20 in My hand that Night .
Well said. Jesus has become a curse for us all on the cross ( Galatians 3:13), so now every believer that is covered with His Blood is protected. In fact there are no curses at all (from God) in the world even for unbelievers since we live in the age of Grace, not Law.
Now about tenths, Paul in 1 Cor 16:2 says "Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come". So there isn't a fixed amount of money that we should give to the church, ie tenths, but a much as we wish to give, if we have anything to give.
Give freely as you purpose in your heart, you are forced if you give knowing that you will not receive a curse then you're not a cheerful giver because you're giving under pressure.
Concerning giving i know God cares more about worshiping him with all our hearts with all our mind and soul in his house more than Tith.
Infact God said to the People of Israel he did not speak to them about burnt offering by They ware to obey his words which they failed and got carried away by Burnt offering
Jeremiah 7:22
For in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak to your fathers or command them q concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices. 23 But this command I gave them: r 'Obey my voice, and sI will be your God, and you shall be my people. t And walk in all the way that I command you, u that it may be well with you.'
I pray this gives you understanding.
So Please Pray and ask God to help you understand.
We as a church still should give of our tithes unto the Lord. However, I still believe that to not give the tenth does not place a person under an Old Testament curse as many would tend to believe. If a curse remained upon us because of our giving, this would nullify the the work of the cross and the atonement that Jesus afforded us. I tend to believe it puts us rather, under the Law of the sowing and reaping benefits of 2 Cor chapter 9: He that sows sparingly shall reap sparingly and He that does bountifully shall reap bountifully. But our salvation is not In jeopardy from a curse if we don't . What is your take on it?
Hi fren ,.. thank you for your honesty an understanding of scriptures you have noted , an of course I hold no judgement, nor did I take your response as confrontational, I've seen a lot of your work on this site , an I find that you approach everything with kindness an love , an the maturity to respect that we all have opinions on what we learn.
I am one to think that Christ has redeemed us, not just in our spirit, but our souls, mind, will, emotions, body-all of us entirely. So, we use all of our being in apprehending Jesus, our Truth.
I have always loved the way that the apostle Paul did not just lost a set of truths for us to believe, rather, he explained the What He received from Jesus. He called it " the faith passed down".
So, we know Jesus, the Ultimate Truth. But we are also charged by Paul to know this "faith" which are the tenets taught by the apostles in the churches planted by them.
It was important to the apostles that believers had agreement of doctrine across the churches. They knew that correct doctrine will help to uphold and unite the faith believers had in Jesus and that teaching of false doctrine was spiritually damaging and dangerous.
So, I hear you on determining that Jesus is our Truth, but we are also to be wise about whom He is , what He did, said , and taught as well as how He continues to be Present and at work in the church through the centuries.
As Paul said,
One Lord, one faith, one baptism.
So all of these are important, in my opinion.
That is why we discuss so many matters of Christian doctrine on this site. If we did not think it was important to understand these things we would just be saying,
Jesus lived, died, rose from the dead, and those who believe this and trust Him will receive the salvation He offers.
We don't believe in Hum and immediately go to heaven. We remain in this life and it matters how we live and what we believe about doctrines for the good of our souls and the church
Thank you for your words of encouragement. You've said some things that truly ministered to me. What stands out the most is "We all can err and make mistakes in interpretation." It takes an honest believer to admit that, and I say amen to that. There's something I said here a long while back. I said it's not what I say that is truth, it's not what you say (Not you personally, but anyone), it's not what anyone of us says that is truth. It's God's word (Logos) alone that is truth.
And yes, we are fallible beings. It doesn't mean were stupid, but we are incapable of knowing the mind of God. I do value the things everyone here has to share. I don't have to agree with it all, but I do value it. We're all to be as the Bereans and search the scriptures daily to see if the things we are being told are true.
But then again, what is truth? Is truth just a bunch of words written in the pages of a book we call the Bible? Many would say "Yes, God's word is the truth" (And it is), but then we turn around in our fallible human minds we think we understand but do we really? I think a lot of it has to do with human pride. I would be the first to raise my hand and say "Guilty."
Once again, what is truth? Here's what truth is to me, but first, here's what truth is not. It's not what I say, period! To me, truth is a person, and that person is Jesus Christ. Jesus said in John 14:6, "I am the WAY, I am the TRUTH, and I am the LIFE."
So, do you or I or anyone else here have the truth? We do if we have Christ. He is the only truth a believer has. It's not head knowledge and it's not the words written in a book, but Christ Himself. If there were no Bibles, we would still have Christ, and He's all the truth we need!
Jesse, I appreciate your well thought out sincere posts as well. So many people contribute good words to ponder and hold up to the word to see if the view is supported by Scrpture or not.
We have an obligation to do that as well as an obligation to speak sound biblical doctrine to others.
We may have many words in our minds, some may be of questionable scriptural merit, but we should not post those thoughts, but only those that we believe honor the truth of God's word. We all can err and have make mistakes in inerpretation, but there is a whole body of writing online from devout Christian thinkers over the centuries who have spent their lives searching, studying, and teaching scriptures and the doctrines of the church that we can read and find out more about a view and help us form a mindset that aligns with revealed truth.
Some on here do not value the contributions of these forefathers, thinking each person can decide for themselves how to interpret Scripture. We are all fallible, and I do not think that anyone on their own can correctly interpret scripture and doctrinal views solitarily without the input of others. I think it is foolish to believe that, that is why I research and have done so all my life.
I have had to change my thinking on some things over the years. We can stay flexible enough to let the Spirit mold our mind to conform with truth.
I deeply appreciate what I read on this site. I am blessed everyone I read on it.
Off the top of my head, I believe the scripture you are referring to is in the book of Titus but don't quote me on that one. I'd have to look it up. As far as equality, I think scripture would support God seeing both men and women as equal in His eyes, just not when it comes to function and the role of each in the church. But yes, this is one of those hotly debated topics that will get us put in the hot seat no matter what view we present. However, sticking with scripture is the best indeed!
My dear sister in Christ Jesus, thanks for all you contribute to this forum. God Bless!!!
I agree. The text you quoted excludes women from these positions.
There is another Scripture that says that women should keep their households, caring for their husbands and children.
I am not sure of the verse location.
But women abandoned that sacred position in the home many decades ago with the push of "women's liberation" and "equality" along with the lure of a second income to raise the standard of living.
Look what it has brought us to,
Now, due to adjustments in the cost of living, it is increasingly difficult for a young couple to live on one income.
We have created our own problems by departing from Scripture on this and going by the wisdom of the world.
And like you said, I'll probably get some to push back on me on this, but I believe we are always better off going with The instructions of Scripture in both the short and long run.
Thank you so much for sharing that quote from the Virtual Museum of Protestantism. I have not heard of them before but would like to check them out. I'm sure they might have other articles of great interest. It does explain a lot on why women were being ordained as pastors. But as you mention, should we as the church ever deviate from the word for the benefit of the church? I think not! It seems to me that every time man does what he thinks is right for the church, we as a church begin to suffer. Things might work from our point of view, but if the Lord's not doing it, we get ourselves into quite the mess.
I truly believe that there are women who would do a much better job of fulfilling a pastoral role in the church than some of the men. But again, do we deviate from the word in order to make the church a "better" place? We've got to be careful on how we are building because if the Lord is not in it, our efforts are in vain, no matter what we think is best. How did the early church function? That should be our model, and yet we have moved so far away from it, maybe not intentional, but we've gotten ourselves into a mess!
May the Lord continue to bless you with knowledge and understanding of His word, for it is only through His provision that we can move forward in growth. God Bless!!!
Well written & explained brother Jesse. There have been several articles written to explain the advent of women occupying the pulpit & I include one that expresses it succinctly: "Women started being pastors as the general movement for emancipation appeared towards the end of the 19th century, and as young women were accepted in universities. Then the need to replace men during both World Wars emphasized it." (From the Virtual Museum of Protestantism).
There were few other women, pre-19th Century, who became ordained ministers/pastors, but with the pressing need to fill leadership/teaching positions in the Church because of men dying or missing on the battlefield, the move towards women leadership became more noticeable & prevalent. Therefore, this is the dilemma the Church now faces: if a need is there, can believers detour from the Word so that the Church doesn't suffer? And then when the opportunity arises to go back to biblical instruction on the matter, does it not then become all the more difficult to do so? I dare say, it would take a strong Church leadership, solidly grounded in the Word, to withstand inroads of any kind that would deviate from the received Truth; indeed, expressing strong faith in God to provide & fill every need in His Church in His Time.
I fully agree with you. There are many great women who are far more capable of teaching and in my opinion (for whatever it's worth) can do a much better job than some of the men teachers. I don't think any of us can argue that women would not be able to do a fine job. But the question I have to ask is does God's word allow for a woman to pastor a church?
In 1 Timothy Chapter 2 beginning at Verse 11, Paul is giving Timothy instruction concerning church function. I see nothing there to suggest that he gives the okay for a woman to fulfil the role of a pastor. 1 Timothy 2:11-12 seem to stand out for me.
We're talking about doctrinal issues in the church. A woman is not to teach, nor to take the authenticity of man, but to be in silence. That's just what he said. They are to learn in silence. How can that happen if the woman is the one behind the pulpit teaching the men?
It's not talking about women not having the same ability or being better than a man, or a man being better than a woman. It has nothing to do with that. It has to do with God's proper order in the church and how the church is supposed to function. God's proper order is God/Christ/Man/Woman, in that order. This has nothing to do with a woman's ability to teach or to say that she is less than the man. I believe many women have a greater teaching ability than some of the men.
But God's word still does not allow the woman to be placed in a position of authority over the man in the church and that's why she's not allowed to pastor a church, even though many women still do!
Please know that I have nothing against women, and nothing against their ability to be great teachers. And like I said, the points you make about women's abilities to do a great job cannot be argued, at least I can't argue with you there. I just don't believe they should pastor a church. Unless I can see some concrete doctrinal statement that says otherwise, I have to stick with what Paul says about the matter.
OUCH !!! There were ,.. an still are , many great women,.. that teach , an have taught the word of God ,.. an they are most certainly, able an do a fine job,.. it is written, an he uses all his sons & daughters
If you are talking about a woman pastoring a church, I would say that a woman is not to fulfil the role of a pastor ( 1 Timothy 2:12-14). A woman does not meet the biblical qualifications of that role, neither can she serve in that capacity where she would be in a position of authority over the man in the church.
1 Timothy 3:2 gives the qualifications of an overseer, or bishop. This would also apply to a pastor as he is an overseer in the church. But it says that an overseer/bishop (Pastor) must be the husband of one wife and be able to properly manage his own household before he can run a church. The husband of one wife as a qualification would rule out a woman being a pastor. Disclaimer: (If you live in California where I do, this would be debatable).
But the biblical teaching and qualifications of who and what a pastor should be would rule out women pastors. I know this is probably going to cause some strife with some but I have to stick with what I understand the scripture to say on the matter unless I'm persuaded otherwise.
The Lord will meet you right where you are at! God don't depend on man's intellect.
If we depend on our reasoning to fully understand the bible we all would be lost. God put his spirit in man and opened our eyes to what he has to say to us.
1 Corinthians 2:9-16. But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
1 Corinthians 1:26-29. For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
Dear Gloria , any one and every one on here will be happy to help you any time . You say you are not a good reader , it would definately benefit you to get some help with that . May be ask a friend or relative ? Or even some one at your local church might give you a helping hand . You might be surprised to find that lots of people would be glad to help you if you can pluck up the courage to ask them . God has a lot to tell you Gloria , open your heart and mind to Him and He will fill it full of good things . Be strong and brave and ask for His help in your prayers and ask a person , a Christian if possible , and I'm confident you will get the help you need . Patience and determination . I'm sure you can do it with God's help . Much love to you .
I am not a good reader any of us me a lot to learn the words I wish I could read even better I would understand more just need you guys to help people like me to understand the word of God
Note that God's grace is here tied to an abundance of good works. And note as well, God is able. Walking by the grace of God, living it out day-by-day, hinges on the ability of God. A life of good works is not dependant upon our strength, our power, or our resolve. It hinges on His ability alone. And God is able.
Yes! Absolutely correct. It's not for building wealth in the 'church'; building megachurchs, having worldwide radio stations; etc; etc. It is for the needs of the saints..some of whom are almost preyed on, giving the 'widow's mite' to support these other ventures of 'ministry'.
Sometimes it is difficult to get the full understanding of a scripture as written in the KJV because it's written in that old English way of speaking. Remember, that's not the original verbiage. I strongly recommend looking at some other versions for a better understanding of some scriptures. God bless!
Giving, witnessing, making disciples, praying, teaching Bible, preaching, etc are works "OF" righteousness; not works "FOR" righteousness.
May we be faithful in our walk with CHRIST. November 16, 2023
A visitor to a large Church wandered into a back room accidentally. In this room were Money Counters and a Enormous amount of money laid across the tables. He was embarrassed and apologized and the Counters were shocked that someone would walk in. One of the Counters trying to get rid of the awkwardness said , Well The Church can't say Silver and Gold have I None anymore. As He closed the door, God spoke to Him and He stuck His head back around and said, No and neither can They say Rise and Walk in The Name of Jesus. The Tenth is upheld by a Religious Organization that mirrors that of Christ's day. Burdens too Grievous to be bourne for so Many. I am a Minister,a Pastor. I understand the Financial needs of the Church. But this Doctrine of not paying a Tenth is Jeopardizing Your Soul or if you only pay a fifth, etc,just keep it. You are going to be Cursed and Die and go to Hell is Blasphemous. It's Rejecting the Works and Salvation of God. Paul said to Give as You have Prospered . Jesus said whatever You have freely received then freely give. Now,,, if You are willing to Walk by Faith and not by SIGHT and trust God. You will begin to give beyond Your means. Not because of a Denomination or Man or Pressure. But God is going to deal with You and test You and see if You are Trustworthy. The reason a lot of People don't have much or struggle financially continually even in the Church is because They are not Givers. I gave 20 dollars in 1996 when I had literally 23 dollars. God put the 20 in My hand that Night .
Well said. Jesus has become a curse for us all on the cross ( Galatians 3:13), so now every believer that is covered with His Blood is protected. In fact there are no curses at all (from God) in the world even for unbelievers since we live in the age of Grace, not Law.
Now about tenths, Paul in 1 Cor 16:2 says "Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come". So there isn't a fixed amount of money that we should give to the church, ie tenths, but a much as we wish to give, if we have anything to give.
GBU
Concerning giving i know God cares more about worshiping him with all our hearts with all our mind and soul in his house more than Tith.
Infact God said to the People of Israel he did not speak to them about burnt offering by They ware to obey his words which they failed and got carried away by Burnt offering
Jeremiah 7:22
For in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak to your fathers or command them q concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices. 23 But this command I gave them: r 'Obey my voice, and sI will be your God, and you shall be my people. t And walk in all the way that I command you, u that it may be well with you.'
I pray this gives you understanding.
So Please Pray and ask God to help you understand.
You are much too kind my brother. God Bless you!
Peace
Well said.
I am one to think that Christ has redeemed us, not just in our spirit, but our souls, mind, will, emotions, body-all of us entirely. So, we use all of our being in apprehending Jesus, our Truth.
I have always loved the way that the apostle Paul did not just lost a set of truths for us to believe, rather, he explained the What He received from Jesus. He called it " the faith passed down".
So, we know Jesus, the Ultimate Truth. But we are also charged by Paul to know this "faith" which are the tenets taught by the apostles in the churches planted by them.
It was important to the apostles that believers had agreement of doctrine across the churches. They knew that correct doctrine will help to uphold and unite the faith believers had in Jesus and that teaching of false doctrine was spiritually damaging and dangerous.
So, I hear you on determining that Jesus is our Truth, but we are also to be wise about whom He is , what He did, said , and taught as well as how He continues to be Present and at work in the church through the centuries.
As Paul said,
One Lord, one faith, one baptism.
So all of these are important, in my opinion.
That is why we discuss so many matters of Christian doctrine on this site. If we did not think it was important to understand these things we would just be saying,
Jesus lived, died, rose from the dead, and those who believe this and trust Him will receive the salvation He offers.
We don't believe in Hum and immediately go to heaven. We remain in this life and it matters how we live and what we believe about doctrines for the good of our souls and the church
Thank you for your words of encouragement. You've said some things that truly ministered to me. What stands out the most is "We all can err and make mistakes in interpretation." It takes an honest believer to admit that, and I say amen to that. There's something I said here a long while back. I said it's not what I say that is truth, it's not what you say (Not you personally, but anyone), it's not what anyone of us says that is truth. It's God's word (Logos) alone that is truth.
And yes, we are fallible beings. It doesn't mean were stupid, but we are incapable of knowing the mind of God. I do value the things everyone here has to share. I don't have to agree with it all, but I do value it. We're all to be as the Bereans and search the scriptures daily to see if the things we are being told are true.
But then again, what is truth? Is truth just a bunch of words written in the pages of a book we call the Bible? Many would say "Yes, God's word is the truth" (And it is), but then we turn around in our fallible human minds we think we understand but do we really? I think a lot of it has to do with human pride. I would be the first to raise my hand and say "Guilty."
Once again, what is truth? Here's what truth is to me, but first, here's what truth is not. It's not what I say, period! To me, truth is a person, and that person is Jesus Christ. Jesus said in John 14:6, "I am the WAY, I am the TRUTH, and I am the LIFE."
So, do you or I or anyone else here have the truth? We do if we have Christ. He is the only truth a believer has. It's not head knowledge and it's not the words written in a book, but Christ Himself. If there were no Bibles, we would still have Christ, and He's all the truth we need!
We have an obligation to do that as well as an obligation to speak sound biblical doctrine to others.
We may have many words in our minds, some may be of questionable scriptural merit, but we should not post those thoughts, but only those that we believe honor the truth of God's word. We all can err and have make mistakes in inerpretation, but there is a whole body of writing online from devout Christian thinkers over the centuries who have spent their lives searching, studying, and teaching scriptures and the doctrines of the church that we can read and find out more about a view and help us form a mindset that aligns with revealed truth.
Some on here do not value the contributions of these forefathers, thinking each person can decide for themselves how to interpret Scripture. We are all fallible, and I do not think that anyone on their own can correctly interpret scripture and doctrinal views solitarily without the input of others. I think it is foolish to believe that, that is why I research and have done so all my life.
I have had to change my thinking on some things over the years. We can stay flexible enough to let the Spirit mold our mind to conform with truth.
I deeply appreciate what I read on this site. I am blessed everyone I read on it.
Off the top of my head, I believe the scripture you are referring to is in the book of Titus but don't quote me on that one. I'd have to look it up. As far as equality, I think scripture would support God seeing both men and women as equal in His eyes, just not when it comes to function and the role of each in the church. But yes, this is one of those hotly debated topics that will get us put in the hot seat no matter what view we present. However, sticking with scripture is the best indeed!
My dear sister in Christ Jesus, thanks for all you contribute to this forum. God Bless!!!
I agree. The text you quoted excludes women from these positions.
There is another Scripture that says that women should keep their households, caring for their husbands and children.
I am not sure of the verse location.
But women abandoned that sacred position in the home many decades ago with the push of "women's liberation" and "equality" along with the lure of a second income to raise the standard of living.
Look what it has brought us to,
Now, due to adjustments in the cost of living, it is increasingly difficult for a young couple to live on one income.
We have created our own problems by departing from Scripture on this and going by the wisdom of the world.
And like you said, I'll probably get some to push back on me on this, but I believe we are always better off going with The instructions of Scripture in both the short and long run.
Thank you so much for sharing that quote from the Virtual Museum of Protestantism. I have not heard of them before but would like to check them out. I'm sure they might have other articles of great interest. It does explain a lot on why women were being ordained as pastors. But as you mention, should we as the church ever deviate from the word for the benefit of the church? I think not! It seems to me that every time man does what he thinks is right for the church, we as a church begin to suffer. Things might work from our point of view, but if the Lord's not doing it, we get ourselves into quite the mess.
I truly believe that there are women who would do a much better job of fulfilling a pastoral role in the church than some of the men. But again, do we deviate from the word in order to make the church a "better" place? We've got to be careful on how we are building because if the Lord is not in it, our efforts are in vain, no matter what we think is best. How did the early church function? That should be our model, and yet we have moved so far away from it, maybe not intentional, but we've gotten ourselves into a mess!
May the Lord continue to bless you with knowledge and understanding of His word, for it is only through His provision that we can move forward in growth. God Bless!!!
There were few other women, pre-19th Century, who became ordained ministers/pastors, but with the pressing need to fill leadership/teaching positions in the Church because of men dying or missing on the battlefield, the move towards women leadership became more noticeable & prevalent. Therefore, this is the dilemma the Church now faces: if a need is there, can believers detour from the Word so that the Church doesn't suffer? And then when the opportunity arises to go back to biblical instruction on the matter, does it not then become all the more difficult to do so? I dare say, it would take a strong Church leadership, solidly grounded in the Word, to withstand inroads of any kind that would deviate from the received Truth; indeed, expressing strong faith in God to provide & fill every need in His Church in His Time.
I fully agree with you. There are many great women who are far more capable of teaching and in my opinion (for whatever it's worth) can do a much better job than some of the men teachers. I don't think any of us can argue that women would not be able to do a fine job. But the question I have to ask is does God's word allow for a woman to pastor a church?
In 1 Timothy Chapter 2 beginning at Verse 11, Paul is giving Timothy instruction concerning church function. I see nothing there to suggest that he gives the okay for a woman to fulfil the role of a pastor. 1 Timothy 2:11-12 seem to stand out for me.
We're talking about doctrinal issues in the church. A woman is not to teach, nor to take the authenticity of man, but to be in silence. That's just what he said. They are to learn in silence. How can that happen if the woman is the one behind the pulpit teaching the men?
It's not talking about women not having the same ability or being better than a man, or a man being better than a woman. It has nothing to do with that. It has to do with God's proper order in the church and how the church is supposed to function. God's proper order is God/Christ/Man/Woman, in that order. This has nothing to do with a woman's ability to teach or to say that she is less than the man. I believe many women have a greater teaching ability than some of the men.
But God's word still does not allow the woman to be placed in a position of authority over the man in the church and that's why she's not allowed to pastor a church, even though many women still do!
Please know that I have nothing against women, and nothing against their ability to be great teachers. And like I said, the points you make about women's abilities to do a great job cannot be argued, at least I can't argue with you there. I just don't believe they should pastor a church. Unless I can see some concrete doctrinal statement that says otherwise, I have to stick with what Paul says about the matter.
be a helpmeet or walk with her man so they both would operate to there full potential. If it would be done
according to Gods standards Ephesians 5:21-31 then everything works to Gods glory. That being said I
see great women of God that took a stand or ministered in a temple which is different then a Gift Ministry.
So Gods best standard is whats stated in the Timothy epistles for ordination not saying a women can't
teach or instruct the gospel message but that's different than ordination.
Peace
If you are talking about a woman pastoring a church, I would say that a woman is not to fulfil the role of a pastor ( 1 Timothy 2:12-14). A woman does not meet the biblical qualifications of that role, neither can she serve in that capacity where she would be in a position of authority over the man in the church.
1 Timothy 3:2 gives the qualifications of an overseer, or bishop. This would also apply to a pastor as he is an overseer in the church. But it says that an overseer/bishop (Pastor) must be the husband of one wife and be able to properly manage his own household before he can run a church. The husband of one wife as a qualification would rule out a woman being a pastor. Disclaimer: (If you live in California where I do, this would be debatable).
But the biblical teaching and qualifications of who and what a pastor should be would rule out women pastors. I know this is probably going to cause some strife with some but I have to stick with what I understand the scripture to say on the matter unless I'm persuaded otherwise.
Hopefully I have not offended you or anyone else!
Accompany reading the Bible with listening to it.
The Lord will meet you right where you are at! God don't depend on man's intellect.
If we depend on our reasoning to fully understand the bible we all would be lost. God put his spirit in man and opened our eyes to what he has to say to us.
1 Corinthians 2:9-16. But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
1 Corinthians 1:26-29. For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
That no flesh should glory in his presence.
Also read. John 16:13-14.
John 14:26.
This site is for help.
God bless.
Thank you, brother