1 John Chapter 1 Discussion

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  • Patrick boone on 1 John 1
    Constellations are mentioned throught the Bible. why is it called witchcraft by Christains?
  • Chris - in Reply on 1 John 1
    Indeed, constellations, stars & planets are mentioned in the Bible, but the problem arises when certain folk begin to read into their location & positioning, thus forming the basis for present & future occurrences in the universe or in people's lives.

    There is no indication in the Bible that these heavenly bodies can be referred to for any type of predictions. Just as much as reading the palm of the hand or examining the placement of tea leaves at the bottom of a cup. All these are superstition-based pursuits as only God can only knows, direct & accomplish our futures. Though we do have the instance of a star which guided the maji to Jesus' place of birth (Matthew 2:1-11) but of what sort that was we're not told & that occasion wouldn't have come under the purview of astrology.
  • Patrick - in Reply on 1 John 1
    Almost every scene in Revelations plays out in the constellations.

    As we speak the dragon is chasing the woman.

    The 12 tribes are actually the 12 constellations.

    The Flood actually referred to the age we started maritime law.

    I think you would be absolutely surprised how the constellations and there movement describes the Bible.or the Bible describes the constellations
  • Richard in Christ - in Reply on 1 John 1
    Kindly. Just one question Patrick. Do you not believe that there was a global flood or Noah's Ark? And about the flood referring to "maritime law", where did you hear this? Thank you.
  • FG - in Reply on 1 John 1
    Genesis 1:14

    "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:"
  • Barbara on 1 John 1
    In Genesis 26...And God said, Let US make man in OUR image.....My Question is: Who is US and OUR?????

    Also, I am not sure I understand 27 at all....
  • Stanjett - in Reply on 1 John 1
    Us is God, Jesus and a whole bunch of angels.
  • Maria MacKenzie - in Reply on 1 John 1
    Us is God and other Spiritual beings is the heavenly host.
  • Stanjett - in Reply on 1 John 1
    Us is God, Jesus, The Holy Spirit and all the angels and all believers Who are with God in Heaven. Two arms, two legs and other body parts.
  • Mishael - in Reply on 1 John 1
    For some reason the reply I made did not get on your thread. Look up to see my post on the Godhead Scriptures.

    Let me know if you want me to send again?
  • The GodHead Scriptures - in Reply on 1 John 1
    The Scriptures about the Godhead. Sometimes called "Let Us..." in some passages.

    Each scripture demonstrates all 3 persons speaking together: Father, Word, Holy Spirit.

    Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7

    Isaiah 6:8

    Romans 1:20

    Colossians 2:9

    Acts 17:27-30

    John 5:7

    John 10:30

    Theres at least 10 scriptures proving it. If you find more, let me know.

  • Stanjett - in Reply on 1 John 1
    Father, Son and the Holy Spirit.
  • Alex on 1 John 1:8
    Comments by Alex on John 3 : 14 on Jesus telling them about HIM SELF being like the bronze serpent that had to be lifted up that our sins might be forgiven that our sins ( OUR SNAKE BITE ) might not be FATAL . We are still in the wilderness and sometimes we get bit ( sin ) But if we behold the lamb of God our snake bite is not fatal. Simply b/c the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made us free from the law of snake bite and death ( sin and death ) We still get bit some times but our sin is not fatal. Now we behold the lamb of OF GOD THAT TAKETH AWAY THE SINS OF THE WORLD. Thats y he left us some GRACE he knew wd need it ,as we are not perfect just yet, We have not got to the land of PROMISE just yet . None of them wanted to get bit but its happens but they wd behold the bronze serpent and they wd live. We are involved in a warfare and sometimes we get bit by satan but if we behold the lamb of God our snake bite is not fatal. Thats y Paul is saying there is no condemnation to them in Christ Jesus .Paul says if we do something we do not consent unto its not us that does it but sin that dwells in our members, with my mind i serve the law of God but with my FLESH the law of sin thus our warfare is in our minds remember Golgatha was in the place of a skull meaning in the minds of mankind thus by his blood we will win the war on sin, Behold the lamb of God that taketh away the Sins of the world, Remember we are gonna have the mind of Christ. When that which is perfect is come that which is done in parts will be done away with. gbu
  • Malcolm green - in Reply on 1 John 1:8
    Amen. Now lets go deeper. The Holy Ghost the spirit of truth the teacher of all things Christ in you 3 in one the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit amen. We have the Father because he is the Creator. His Son 1st born king of kings lord of Lords Jesus Christ who came from the Father came so we may live and inhairait eternal life the promise God gave Abraham Jesus is our savor our protector our redeemer healer defence the 1st the last begining our everthing he paid the price for us Jesus said that it was important that he go to the father and when he goes he will send the Holy Spirit... So that spirit the Holy Spirit comes in and dwell in you Christ in you (the marriage). We have to put on the mind of Christ (by renewing of the mind) to be Christ like joint heirs with Christ Jesus.( he thought it was not robberie to be equal with God) . So he put on that mind set the rebirth of his mind. He looked in him (which is to be aware) and the spirit of the Lord lead and moved him letting purpose set in.amen
  • Naeem J Bourne on 1 John 1
    What about the young children who have died long before the age of accountability? Why didn't the "promise of 70years" reach them? I don't think Lord promised any of 70 years.
  • Mishael - in Reply on 1 John 1
    All people who died in Christ will live again.

    That includes all babies: who died too soon, by accident, illness or malice, or taken from the womb.

    We'll see them again, in a place of love and forgiveness. No memory of the things that hurt us.

    God says that ALL SOULS are mine.

    All souls await the resurrection into their new bodies which will never get sick or die.

    Hang on to Jesus with all of your strength.
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  • Ed Kidgell - in Reply on 1 John 1
    We are saved the moment that we believe that Jesus died for our sins and rose again. See 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. This is all that is required to be reconciled to God. We are at that moment sealed by the Holy Spirit 'until the day of redemption' ie. once saved always saved. Repentance is a change of mind, which we enacted when we believed.

    Your past sins are past, and washed away. The accuser will try and remind you of them, just rebuke him. He has nothing to say to you that you cannot ignore.
  • Adam - in Reply on 1 John 1
    Hello, I see you say you believe in once saved, always saved.

    If so, how do you explain Jesus's warning to Christians to avoid sin? If Christians are already saved then why try to avoid sin anymore?

    And how do you explain Jesus clearly saying that blasphemy of the Holy Ghost won't be forgiven in Matthew 12:31?

    And do you think Christians are robbed of their free will to sin when they become a Christian. If so, how do you explain even angels in heaven having freewill to sin, like satan, but human beings don't on earth?
  • Ed Kidgell - in Reply on 1 John 1
    I'll address your questions in order:

    Hello, I see you say you believe in once saved, always saved.


    Eph_1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

    Eph_4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

    We are sealed until the day we die or are taken up at the rapture ie. for ever.

    If so, how do you explain Jesus's warning to Christians to avoid sin? If Christians are already saved then why try to avoid sin anymore?

    This is something we should always be doing. We have a choice when confronted with temptation. Avoid sin. This has nothing to do with our salvation - we are justified by faith, not works. Actively committing or avoiding sin is a work.

    And how do you explain Jesus clearly saying that blasphemy of the Holy Ghost won't be forgiven in Matthew 12:31?

    Define 'blasphemy of the Holy Spirit'.

    And do you think Christians are robbed of their free will to sin when they become a Christian. If so, how do you explain even angels in heaven having freewill to sin, like satan, but human beings don't on earth?

    Our free will is not affected by our salvation, otherwise there would be no warnings against sinning. We are free to do as we please, or as God pleases. Choose wisely.
  • David W Black - in Reply on 1 John 1
    Didn't you take on the name of Christ when you were saved? If the answer is yes, then why would you not also take on the attribute to be sinless, to sin no more? In John 5:14 and John 8:11 Jesus tells man and woman to go and sin no more. Also note that Jesus taught that we will be known by our fruit, which is either good or evil. Matthew 7:16-20 here Jesus tells us that the tree will either be good or evil not both. Which are you, good or evil? If you still sin, you are evil.

    Satan was not in Heaven. He was not cast out of Heaven anywhere in the Bible. He was not an angel of God ever. This presents us with a God that cannot control His angels, nor can He actually save us from sin if you still commit sin after being saved. Let's consider something here. A person knows he's sinned, he feels convicted of it. He then repents and asks God to forgive his sins. By faith it is done. The sins he used to do is forgiven and forgotten. Now since God is more than fair to us all, let's reverse things. The man that was saved commits sin. He is no longer saved because he repented, changed his mind is part of repentance. His life of salvation is now forgotten. That is how this works. You are not saved and sin too. Yes I know there is the 2nd work to be done called sanctification that a person that is currently saved from sin can ask God to remove his carnal nature and clean his spiritual heart and to fill it with the Holy Ghost. Now that person is truly free from all committed and inherited sins. But he does not go about still committing sin or he is lost still.

    Question: if you are saved and yet commit sin, when do you stop sinning? When you enter the Kingdom of God? If yes, then the Kingdom of God is here now for you to enter. Come to the Church Of God, a church building where the saved do not say they're saved and yet sin.

    So again the question, do you claim salvation and still sin? You as the tree are either good or evil not both. Saved or sinner. Only two choices.
  • Ed Kidgell - in Reply on 1 John 1
    No human being can be 'sinless' except for Jesus Christ. We need to distinguish between the two natures present in the believers person, the flesh (which we're born with) and the spirit (which is 'born' when we are saved). The flesh is definitely evil, it cannot do good. But the spirit is perfect - it cannot sin. Two natures.

    There are many things we should do once we've been saved, but none of them affect our standing as sons (and daughters) of God. They are works, and our salvation is based purely on grace, the free gift, not on works.

    The flesh is evil, born in sin, the spirit is perfect, born of the Holy Spirit. So we're both good (spirit) and evil (flesh).

    Re Satan

    Luke 10:18, Isa_14:12, Job 1:6

    God does not 'control' any being. We (created beings) have free will, granted to us by God, and can choose our own paths.

    When we're saved ALL our sins, past, present AND future are forgiven and washed away.

    Our salvation is not dependent on works. Also, the Bible is clear that we are sealed by the Holy Spirit when we are saved, and that He seals us until the day of redemption (we die or are raptured): Ephesians 1:13 and Ephesians 4:30. There are no conditions attached except that we believe: 1Co 15:1-4

    Our carnal nature will be removed when our flesh is replaced with our resurrection bodies - we will struggle with our flesh until then. Paul himself had an ongoing battle with this very issue: Romans 7:18

    Question: if you are saved and yet commit sin, when do you stop sinning?

    You stop sinning when you die.

    'We are redeemed people trapped in unredeemed bodies' - Dr. Michael Heiser
  • Mishael - in Reply on 1 John 1
    Thank you. This is something we struggle with in here. Too many say if we sin after salvation; we weren't saved at all.

    Come back often.
  • David W Black - in Reply on 1 John 1
    Then if we cannot be saved from sin, I suppose Jesus lied to us when He commanded 2 different people in John 5:14 and John 8:11 go and sin no more. Why did Jesus die then? To save us in sin? What you state is not founded on the Bible.

    Matthew 1:21 states "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins." Here it says He saves us from sin not in them. When man or woman repents and gets saved, it is salvation from sin. At that time, God only addresses sin you have committed in the past. He doesn't need to address sin that is present, because those that really repent, do not sin any longer. They can choose to sin, but if they do, it is called backsliding. God also does not forgive sins in the future, because again the one that is saved is not committing sin in the future.

    There are 2 definite works we must do to be saved and have the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit. These 2 are the same holy being by the way. As I already said, you must repent and be saved from sin. Then you must pray to God to remove the carnal nature and infill your heart with the Holy Ghost. See this verse where Paul was ministering to saved but not sanctified souls.

    Acts 19:2 "He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost." They were believers of Christ signifying salvation. Why would Paul ask the question if you automatically got the Holy Ghost upon salvation? The verse would not be needed if what you believe is true.

    The one thing you did get correct, we stop sinning when we die. When we repent, and are saved, we are dead to sin. That is the salvation God accepts. So if you're still in your sins, you're lost, dead spiritually and will not make Heaven your home. Unless you repent and be saved from sin now.

    Titus 2:12 says we live godly now. How can the sinner be godly? He or she can't. You're deceived and must repent.
  • David W Black - in Reply on 1 John 1
    Final comment. Think honestly about this. In the Old Testament under Levitical law, or Mosaic law which is the same, the tabernacle with its altar of sacrifice, the exterior courtyard, the 1st & 2nd rooms...In that Levitical law, a blood sacrifice was required to atone for sin, at which time God counted that person righteous and sins were forgiven. That sacrifice had to be repeated yearly, as it did nothing more but save from sins committed & was repeated yearly. In the dispensation of Christ, the NT, He died on the cross & His blood was shed to atone for man's sin. Levitical, the sins were washed away on a yearly basis. In the NT, the blood of Christ cleanses us from sins committed for as long as we obey. Committing sin again removes that cleansing from the blood of Christ.

    His blood does not save us from present/future sin because you'd not sin in the present or you couldn't have been saved. Ex: at 12 PM and 0 seconds you get saved. You can't have in your heart to be saved & to desire freedom from sin but at 12 PM & 1 second decide you'll sin just after being saved. His blood doesn't need to save from future sin. You would have lost the desire to sin when saved. Yes people can backslide, they disobey God after salvation and the atonement for sin is broken. Salvation never creates a saved sinner.

    Saying we commit sin after the blood of Christ was applied is saying the Levitical law of sacrifice is better as it atones yearly but the blood of Christ doesn't free us from sin, if you believe you still sin after salvation. This means thinking Christ's blood is less powerful than bulls & goats blood. I'd hope you see that is wrong to think that Christ's blood is less powerful.

    Romans 5:19 "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous." Adam's sin caused all to be guilty of sin. Christ obeyed, became sacrifice on cross to save us from sin if the blood is applied. No righteous sinners exist.
  • Alex - in Reply on 1 John 1
    Comments by Alex about the times we are living in. Remember Jesus scolded the Pharisees b/c they cd not discern the times and the seasons. Are not the 2000 swine that perished in the river symbolic of a 2000 yr spritual famine coming a night season when NO MAN can work that great abomination of desolation that Jesus warned us about. In Pharoahs dream he saw 14 kine come out of the river each animal was symbolic of 1 yr. A great famine of 14 yrs duration 7 good and 7 bad but my point is each animal was symbolic of 1 yr. Are not the 2000 swine that perished in the river symbolic of a 2000 yrs spritual famine not a famine of natural bread but a famine of hearing his voice THE WORD OF THE LORD we have not heard his voice in 2000 yrs.Jesus said the days are coming when you will desire to see one of the days of the son of man but you will not see them. The last 2000 yrs have been that time of desolation, 6.5 million jews died in hitlers death camp but God did not interceed for them simply b/c we are in that time of th great abomination of desolation when NO MAN CAN WORK . Just as he was dead for 2 days is just symbolic that he will not RISE AGAIN IN THE HEARTS OF MANKIND TILL THE 3 RD DAY. We are early in the rd day now . The great abomination of desolation has been upon us the last 2000 yrs .Even Paul said after my death shall grevious wolves come in to the Church Thus he gave them up till the woman gives birth as Micah said in 5 . But 4 times Jesus said he wd raise them up the 3 rd day again. Remember Jesus said your House is left unto you desolate .And in Hosea 6 he says after 2 days will he raise us up, and on the 3 rd day shall we will live in his sight,This is not about natural Israel but about the Israel of God. All the unrest around the world is just the signs of the times and the seasons Jesus spoke about When the Woman will go into Child birth simply b/c of the book that is gonna be opened which is the NEW Covenant . The WORDS of that book are the NEW COVENANT .
  • Adam - in Reply on 1 John 1
    I've seen this same discussion played out repeatedly online and I'm not sure if either party learns anything from the exchange. The scriptures shared to support each point of view doesn't seem surprising to either party, but some seem to put more emphasis on one set of scriptures and less on another. Both sides agree grace through faith is what saves Ephesians 2:8-9. I've noticed that one side sometimes assumes the other side doesn't believe in grace, but that's a false assumption. I think the key question is how important is it to avoid sin? According to Jesus very important: Matthew 5:48.

    Many of the parables were spoken to his followers (Christians) to fear God and keep his commandments and that narrow is the gate leading to heaven (few will find it) and wide is the gate leading to hell. If all Christians are already saved what's the point of trying? Maybe not all Christians who assume they are saved are and maybe some are lukewarm. Matthew 7:21-23. I think it's safe to say that Christianity is an active religion- the term literally means a Christ follower which involves action and movement.

    If someone follows Christ I believe they can have confidence in their salvation. John 5:24 If someone lives an entire life of sin and follows the world and puts their treasure in the world and not in heaven, but they were sprinked as a baby or responded to an altar call 40 years ago, are they really a Christ follower? God is the judge, but I think that person should be afraid of going to hell and should turn from evil and follow Jesus, because of scriptures like Luke 12:5.

    We're all impefect and sin, just as Paul admitted he struggled with, but that shouldn't stop someone from trying very hard to avoid sin, be obedient, and be a light to the world as Jesus said. I think someone who thinks they earned a get out of jail free card and uses it as a license to enjoy a life of sin and pursue evil will be surprised in the end as predicted in Matthew 7:21-23.
  • Chris - in Reply on 1 John 1
    Adam, you're correct, this has been a long, ongoing discussion, one which I've had (& enjoyed) with David over the previous weeks. I had stopped contributing as I believed that with all that was said & shown from the Scriptures, our positions remained unchanged based on our understanding of them. He believes that he is sinless as Christ has saved him from sin & from ever sinning again. So I'm not rehashing all those points here again.

    What I will ask: What was the purpose & what was accomplished by Christ's death on the Cross? In theological terms, Jesus was sent for the singular purpose of being a substitutionary atonement for sinful mankind. Had that not happened, we would have long ago felt the full force of God's Anger against us. Jesus stepped into the gap, becoming the propitiatory offering (i.e. both an atonement for sins & what was acceptable to God to avert His Wrath from us). So did this act of love free us from sins? Not at all. It only provided the judicial requirement for God to accept a Sacrifice that would be the means for our payment & our pardon. Without such a sacrifice, we may as well turn to the Jewish sacrificial system or pursue anything that we choose (e.g. good works, self denial, self-flagellation, etc.) in hope of satisfying God. This is still being done all over the world rather than turning to the One from God, Whom God accepted.

    Then, could not Christ's Sacrifice provide us more than just a pardon? It certainly could if through it we could be forgiven & cleansed from past sins & changed so that we will no longer be 'repeat offenders'. But His Blood could never do that, simply because Christ's Sacrifice was only for our pardon not for removal of our ability to sin, however much we desire not to sin. We're still in sinful bodies with a sin nature, from which sin emanates. If His Sacrifice gave us new bodies without the sin nature (as Adam enjoyed in Eden), I would heartily concur with David, but He did give us His Spirit to help us.

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